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| 04:18.46 | cworth | So the xstoke website and the releases are all here: |
| 04:18.48 | cworth | http://pandora.east.isi.edu/xstroke/ |
| 04:19.07 | cworth | I just received an email that's supposed to have the whole CVS history too. I'll post that tomorrow. |
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| 08:27.46 | XorA | morning |
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| 08:37.34 | CoreDump|home | morning |
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| 09:30.46 | CoreDump|home | XorA: matchbox-desktop_cvs20060401 fixes the themes. I guess I had overloocked that yesterday |
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| 09:38.26 | XorA | CoreDump|home: cool |
| 09:39.57 | CoreDump|home | the industrial theme sets a way too large font, and the other themes could set a font a little bit larger tho |
| 09:43.00 | CoreDump|home | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.12395.png |
| 09:47.57 | lama | where are gpe source tarballs ? |
| 09:48.10 | CoreDump|home | oesources.org |
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| 10:11.23 | CoreDump|home | grrr |
| 10:11.37 | CoreDump|home | XorA: 2.0 actually |
| 10:12.04 | CoreDump|home | at least that's what it shipped with |
| 10:15.24 | CoreDump|home | I don't get it. If I rebuild gpe-image with all the new versions it still has the DPI bugs. If I install them manually it works |
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| 10:23.15 | CoreDump|home | XorA: ahem |
| 10:23.41 | CoreDump|home | XorA: editing ~/.Xdefaults and rising the font _there_ fixes it for me lol? |
| 10:24.54 | XorA | CoreDump|home: I have no font sizes except rxvt in .Xdefaults |
| 10:25.02 | CoreDump|home | that's the one I edited |
| 10:25.10 | CoreDump|home | I set it from 9 to 12 |
| 10:25.26 | CoreDump|home | that made _all_ fonts larger: desktop, desktop-title, window-title |
| 10:26.20 | CoreDump|home | that's why it worked yesterday and not today. I used an empty /home today |
| 10:27.11 | CoreDump|home | yep |
| 10:27.25 | CoreDump|home | setting it back to "9" from "12" makes all fonts smaller |
| 10:27.31 | ewano | heh |
| 10:32.46 | florian_kc | good morning |
| 10:36.45 | CoreDump|home | morning florian_kc |
| 10:37.25 | CoreDump|home | XorA: I guess that's a change in _svn20060401, as 0.9.1 doesn't react to changing .Xdefaults |
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| 10:38.57 | florian_kc | hi jg |
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| 10:56.29 | jg | florian_kc: hi |
| 10:56.35 | CoreDump|home | while I am seeing many different idiotic behaviours of the fonts this one seems to be reproducable: |
| 10:56.50 | CoreDump|home | the desktop-title font depends on .Xdefaults |
| 10:57.15 | CoreDump|home | if it isn't there it is not readable, afterwards it can be adjusted with the desktop-fonts setting |
| 10:57.48 | florian_kc | CoreDump|home: well... matchbox-desktop is using xlib directly iirc. |
| 10:58.19 | CoreDump|home | the fontsize has to be ~12, not 7 (which is the default) |
| 10:58.39 | CoreDump|home | but dammit, I had a working system yesterday! Font size "7" worked perfectly |
| 10:59.00 | CoreDump|home | and the window-title was readable with all themes, too grrr |
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| 11:00.47 | florian_kc | CoreDump|home: then its likely the dpi setting for your display changed. |
| 11:01.06 | CoreDump|home | hmm I hand-set it to 200 yesterday |
| 11:01.25 | florian_kc | Where is TyggerBob? His sectest-gpe-image is ready :-) |
| 11:01.29 | CoreDump|home | and changed it in OE, too. Checking |
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| 14:05.31 | florian_kc | hi mallum, hi TyggerBob |
| 14:05.35 | TyggerBob | Mornin |
| 14:05.42 | mallum | hey florian_kc |
| 14:06.05 | florian_kc | TyggerBob: Would you like to test this? http://www.kernelconcepts.de/~fuchs/familiar-unofficial/images/sectest-gpe-image-v0.8.3-h3900.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 14:07.43 | TyggerBob | downloading now :) |
| 14:07.52 | TyggerBob | Thanks, Florian |
| 14:08.13 | TyggerBob | btw, how do you read botmail? I thought it was as simple as /msg ibot botmail read? |
| 14:08.54 | florian_kc | TyggerBob: yes exactly... |
| 14:09.09 | TyggerBob | Doh.. I hadn't signed in with nickserv |
| 14:09.15 | TyggerBob | so my pm's were being blocked |
| 14:09.18 | TyggerBob | fixed now :) |
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| 15:00.22 | univac | gpe-image-v0.8.3-h3900.rootfs.jffs2 works on h3870? |
| 15:01.47 | TyggerBob | Well.. off to breakfast and the conference.. |
| 15:01.55 | TyggerBob | have a good day guys.. thanks again |
| 15:02.15 | florian_kc | univac: no, this one needs the h3600 image |
| 15:02.59 | florian_kc | TyggerBob: enjoy |
| 15:05.46 | univac | hm, how can i connect from my desktop to ipaq x serwer? |
| 15:09.07 | florian_kc | univac: pretty easy: if security is no problem just open the xserver on the ipaq (xhost +) and set the DISPLAY environment variable to the iPAQ remote display when starting an application on the PC. |
| 15:09.31 | florian_kc | somethign like "export DISPLAY=<ip of ipaq>:0" |
| 15:10.03 | univac | Thanks. |
| 15:10.04 | neal | why am I unable to close http://handhelds.org/~bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1528 ? |
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| 15:13.02 | *** topic/#gpe is The GPE Palmtop Environment - http://gpe.handhelds.org/ | GPE Wiki: http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/GPEProject |familiar snapshots: http://familiar.handhelds.org/snapshots/ | Development Manual (in progress): http://www.kernelconcepts.de/~fuchs/gpe/doc/devmanual/ | GPE 2.7 released! | 1000 checkins since april 2nd 2005 |
| 15:14.21 | florian_kc | neal: looks like you don't have cvs superpowers and are not owner of that bug... i can do that |
| 15:15.48 | neal | florian: ok, thanks. |
| 15:18.58 | neal | florian: This might also be closable: http://handhelds.org/~bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1529 |
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| 15:19.06 | neal | florian: Phil claims it is fixed in cvs |
| 15:19.26 | neal | florian: but the image is gone so I have no idea what the real bug is. |
| 15:22.35 | florian_kc | neal: yes indeed... will close that too |
| 15:24.11 | florian_kc | tomorrow is our montly hacker meeting here, maybe i manage to fix the event editor then... |
| 15:26.00 | pb__ | oh right, yeah, I should have included the changelog entry in the bugzilla message |
| 15:26.46 | pb__ | 2006-02-07 Phil Blundell <pb@reciva.com> |
| 15:26.46 | pb__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:26.46 | pb__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:26.46 | pb__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:26.46 | pb__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:26.54 | pb__ | I think that was the patch for bug 1529 |
| 15:27.03 | neal | ah. |
| 15:27.10 | neal | I changed a bit of that. |
| 15:27.29 | neal | Minimum size wastes quite a bit of real estate |
| 15:27.47 | pb__ | iirc, the problem was that if your screen was really tall (hx4700 is 480x640) then the week view would just occupy the top third of the screen and leave a big blank area underneath |
| 15:28.13 | neal | pb: I don't see that as a big problem if there are no appointments. |
| 15:28.25 | pb__ | yeah, it's not a big deal, just a minor cosmetic issue |
| 15:28.32 | neal | pb: And when there are appointments, I'd rather have more on the screen than less. |
| 15:28.49 | pb__ | I suppose the ideal thing would be for each individual cell to be more elastic, so that it always tries to fill the screen but doesn't impose any minimum size on individual days. |
| 15:29.01 | pb__ | that way, days with more appointments could grow at the expense of days with fewer. |
| 15:29.13 | neal | pb: that's the current implementation :-) |
| 15:29.17 | pb__ | okay, excellent |
| 15:29.30 | pb__ | sounds ideal then |
| 15:29.40 | neal | better. |
| 15:29.53 | neal | you'll ave to convince me on the ideal bit. |
| 15:31.18 | pb__ | well, ideal in the sense that I can't think of anything else that would be better. |
| 15:31.39 | pb__ | empty space is -- more or less by definition -- wasted space, so we might as well fill it with something. |
| 15:33.27 | neal | pb: I'm not convinced that's true. |
| 15:34.01 | neal | pb: If what is replaces empty space is simply noise then I think your statement is wrong. |
| 15:35.21 | univac | univac<~>% xhost <18:35> |
| 15:35.21 | pb__ | I don't think I'd consider an expanded day cell to be "noise". |
| 15:35.24 | univac | access control disabled, clients can connect from any host |
| 15:35.25 | univac | hmm |
| 15:35.28 | univac | INET:localhost |
| 15:35.30 | univac | LOCAL: |
| 15:35.30 | pb__ | univac: thanks for keeping us posted |
| 15:36.22 | neal | pb: so your replacing empty space with colored empty space? |
| 15:38.28 | neal | s/your/you're/ |
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| 15:46.43 | florian_kc | neal: that might look better... |
| 15:47.19 | florian_kc | (not that i think its really important...) |
| 15:49.02 | pb__ | neal: basically, yup |
| 15:49.24 | pb__ | but, also, coloured empty space that you can click in and have something happen |
| 15:50.13 | neal | walfield.org/gpe-min.jpg walfield.org/gpe-orig.jpg |
| 15:50.46 | neal | I personally find the first easier to scan. |
| 15:51.53 | neal | I'm quite interested in your opinions, however. |
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| 15:55.28 | florian_kc | neal: hmm yes, if there are a few entries only the new version is a bit easier to scan, but if you fill the available space it looks a little bit more clean |
| 15:59.55 | neal | florian: I don't quite understand the second half of your statement |
| 16:00.10 | neal | namely, what is "it" |
| 16:00.32 | Genesis | bonne soiree |
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| 16:03.40 | florian_kc | neal: the week view area as a whole thing... |
| 16:06.01 | neal | florian: I'n still not entirely clear what you mean. Do you mean: it is better to always fill the screen? |
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| 16:09.39 | _law_ | hi all |
| 16:16.50 | neal | florian: I haven't successfully recreated your problem with dates shoing as :01 or :59 in the day view. |
| 16:20.22 | florian_kc | neal: i guess so... mostly because the other two views do this too. |
| 16:20.29 | florian_kc | hi _law_ |
| 16:20.44 | _law_ | hi florian_kc |
| 16:21.00 | neal | florian_kc: That is a point. |
| 16:21.23 | florian_kc | neal: hmm i can try that again later on some devices.... |
| 16:21.44 | neal | florian: Let me know when you have some time and we can try to debug it together. |
| 16:22.06 | florian_kc | neal: it took me some time to find out _why_ it looked better filling up the window :-) |
| 16:22.33 | neal | florian: It could also be an argument that the day view shouldn't take up the whole view. |
| 16:22.35 | florian_kc | neal: okay, this evening... |
| 16:22.52 | lardman|work | Seen this?: http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=18700&hl= |
| 16:22.54 | neal | ok. |
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| 16:29.13 | florian_kc | lardman|work: heh oh, what... hmm... well, maybe i should try to sell my familiar images ;-) |
| 16:43.13 | lardman|work | florian_kc: Thought it might give everyone a chuckle :) |
| 16:49.28 | florian_kc | lardman|work: :-) |
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| 17:11.14 | jg | florian_kc, pb_, pb__, mallum, france: any of you know the answer to the following question? What is going on so that when I press the power button on GPE to put the machine to sleep, it takes multiple seconds to get the machine to sleep, whereas pressing the button to turn it on gets it going in small fractions of a second? |
| 17:12.27 | mallum | RP: you probably know answer to jg's que ? |
| 17:13.12 | florian_kc | jg: is this with a pretty much up to date system? |
| 17:13.49 | jg | florian_kc: not particularly: this is from early last fall. I've had no time to play since I joined OLPC. |
| 17:15.57 | florian_kc | jg: hmm... that's strange indeed, we had this lately with the new keylaunch release supporting startup notification. |
| 17:16.56 | florian_kc | jg: what happens if you use "apm -s"? |
| 17:17.08 | lardman|work | bye |
| 17:17.12 | jg | florian_kc: the reason I ask, is that we plan to put the OLPC system into S3 at the drop of a hat, and turn it on again with amazing regularity.... |
| 17:17.57 | jg | florian_kc: easier said than done: I've not touched ipaq stuff since I moved to this laptop... |
| 17:19.16 | mallum | jg: dont you have to click and hold the powerkey for a while for the sleep request to get recognised by the system though ? |
| 17:19.44 | florian_kc | jg: that's an x86 based device you intend to use as an instant-on device? |
| 17:20.06 | jg | florian_kc: yes, but we control the horizontal, the vertical, and the every which way. |
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| 17:24.17 | mallum | jg: you are using JFFS2 right ? |
| 17:24.26 | mallum | jg: on OLPC |
| 17:25.59 | florian_kc | mallum: no, that's backlight |
| 17:26.21 | mallum | florian_kc: quick press is sleep ? |
| 17:26.22 | jg | mallum: yes, we expect to, until the IBM flash file system becomes available. |
| 17:27.02 | mallum | jg: seen http://www.lkml.org/lkml/2006/4/4/102 |
| 17:27.52 | florian_kc | jg: sounds good :-) ... and interesting, is there some more detailed information available what you are going to do and how? |
| 17:28.10 | florian_kc | mallum: yep |
| 17:29.20 | jg | florian_kc: voodoo and black magic. |
| 17:29.56 | florian_kc | jg: you don't have a different choice on x86 ;-) |
| 17:30.51 | jg | florian_kc: well, we're planning to use Linuxbios, rather than a conventional one, we don't even have to emulate a PCI bus if we don't want to. |
| 17:32.48 | florian_kc | jg: that means you boot like a normal pc? |
| 17:33.07 | jg | florian_kc: we can make it as much, or as little like a normal PC as we want. |
| 17:33.23 | jg | florian_kc: we have control of everything short of the processor chip itself. |
| 17:34.16 | florian_kc | jg: |
| 17:34.18 | florian_kc | oops |
| 17:34.29 | jg | florian_kc: long delay using apm -s. |
| 17:34.41 | jg | Familiar Linux v0.8.1-snapshot-20050211 h3900 tts/0 |
| 17:36.10 | florian_kc | jg: sounds like a pretty interesting project designing the whole system from the basics with its own concept. |
| 17:36.47 | florian_kc | jg: okay... let me try on a similar device with an up to date image... |
| 17:38.22 | Philippe | jg, indeed suspending takes a bit more time than waking up. Not much though... |
| 17:38.31 | jg | florian_kc: yes, we're going to do some fun and crazy stuff: e.g. we can leave the screen live, and turn of the CPU. And we can forward packets in a mesh network, with the cpu off. |
| 17:38.37 | *** join/#gpe pH5 (n=ph5@e178228189.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:38.42 | florian_kc | jg: this h5550 here needs about one second |
| 17:38.47 | jg | Philippe: it happens on my machine to be more like 5 seconds vs. .1 seconds. |
| 17:38.52 | florian_kc | hi Philippe |
| 17:38.56 | Philippe | ipaq 3850, familiar 0.8.3 self build pre-release |
| 17:38.58 | Philippe | hi florian_kc |
| 17:39.08 | jg | florian_kc: so the question is why does it take so long to get off? |
| 17:39.12 | florian_kc | jg: oh! |
| 17:39.15 | pH5 | good evening |
| 17:39.20 | Philippe | and I am pleased to see that the backlight bug is gone |
| 17:40.25 | florian_kc | jg: that's complicated indeed - it might be a kernel issue or more likely some suspend script. |
| 17:40.48 | Philippe | jg, the difference might be that some device status needs be saved, and that it gets restored in the background on power-up |
| 17:41.41 | *** join/#gpe hdm (n=hdm@206.47.9.3) |
| 17:42.56 | florian_kc | jg: is this problem present all the time since you installed this image? |
| 17:43.42 | jg | florian_kc: as far as I know. I'm more interested in understanding what is going on, and whether we can get poweroff as fast as power on.... |
| 17:44.07 | mallum | need RP or pb |
| 17:44.08 | pb__ | jg: that's definitely a bug. I'm sure that Familiar used to be able to power off in much less time than that: it should be almost instantaneous. |
| 17:44.21 | pb__ | iirc, 0.7.2 powerdown was well under a second |
| 17:45.12 | florian_kc | jg: like Philippe said you maybe need to save some status on suspend but usually that doesn't take that long. |
| 17:45.25 | *** join/#gpe reenoo (n=r@p5489F9F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:45.32 | florian_kc | reenoo: hi |
| 17:46.07 | reenoo | evening |
| 17:46.09 | reenoo | hi florian_kc |
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| 17:46.32 | pb__ | jg: if you run "apm -s" from a console, does that take a long time as well? |
| 17:47.51 | pb__ | oh, never mind, I see florian already asked you that |
| 17:48.58 | pb__ | it might be interesting to try without X running, too, just in case the xserver's apm handshake is causing the slowdown. It shouldn't be, but I guess you never know. |
| 17:49.12 | pb__ | I'll try flashing my h3900 with the latest 0.8.x bits this evening and see what happens for me. |
| 17:49.21 | pb__ | bbiab |
| 17:49.34 | reenoo | later pb__ |
| 17:49.54 | florian_kc | pb__: oh maybe try one of my images :-) |
| 17:50.05 | florian_kc | pb__: later... |
| 17:50.10 | jg | still took more than 1 second, even with X not running. |
| 17:51.18 | florian_kc | jg: the contents of /etc/apm/suspend.d might be interesting |
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| 17:52.29 | jg | florian_kc: yeah, it runs usbnet and ifupdown. |
| 17:52.33 | jg | They are probably guilty. |
| 17:54.45 | jg | interesting; I move them out of the way, and it is still taking > 1 second to get the machine off. |
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| 17:57.05 | florian_kc | jg: then i'd suspect some kernel issue... is this a h39xx or h5xxx ipaq? |
| 17:58.14 | jg | h5xxx |
| 17:59.19 | florian_kc | jg: i can imagine that the usb and wireless stuff might need some time, but i'm not sure. |
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| 18:34.02 | florian | re |
| 18:36.11 | pb_ | florian: wb |
| 18:36.12 | pb_ | zecke: yo |
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| 19:09.55 | zecke | hey |
| 19:20.23 | florian | hi zecke, hi devesh |
| 19:24.36 | devesh | hi florian |
| 20:03.00 | florian | reenoo: wb |
| 20:03.54 | reenoo | re florian |
| 20:04.15 | neal | papers? |
| 20:06.25 | florian | neal: yes... stuff for a customer project :-/ |
| 20:06.25 | florian | It's even worse... i should work on the manual too... |
| 20:06.25 | florian | s/the/_the_ |
| 20:06.47 | neal | a manual? |
| 20:06.49 | neal | schoen |
| 20:10.52 | florian | neal: yes, the gpe development manual... |
| 20:11.18 | neal | at least you can make it available. |
| 20:12.45 | florian | neal: indeed, see topic :-) |
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| 20:18.06 | neal | one more check in then time for bed. |
| 20:18.56 | florian | uh bed? way too early ;-) |
| 20:19.04 | neal | what time do you get up in the morning? |
| 20:19.12 | florian | neal: what did you do this time? |
| 20:19.35 | neal | I've made the calendar mark the days which have events. |
| 20:19.46 | neal | which makes, in particular, the day view much more useful. |
| 20:20.36 | florian | neal: hmm... depends, assuming i need to get up only one time to feed Jonas at about 10am |
| 20:20.46 | neal | hehe. |
| 20:20.51 | neal | that's the difference :-) |
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| 20:20.57 | florian | :-) |
| 20:21.31 | neal | I'm up at 6:30 |
| 20:21.45 | florian | oops, okay :-) |
| 20:23.38 | neal | committed. |
| 20:23.46 | neal | now I'm off. |
| 20:24.46 | florian | neal: good night! |
| 20:24.59 | neal | likewise. |
| 20:25.07 | reenoo | 'night neal |
| 20:31.48 | florian | That makes it really much more useful... |
| 20:52.23 | Philippe | night all |
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| 21:29.55 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 21:34.38 | florian | hi CoreDump|home |
| 21:35.08 | CoreDump|home | I had it working perfectly yesterday dammit |
| 22:23.48 | CoreDump|home | florian: the 200 DPI bug is not fixed yet. I am running cvs20060405 of -desktop, -panel, -wm and libmb1 and it is still there |
| 22:24.16 | CoreDump|home | the only thing fixed is the too-small and unadjustable font in -panel (that works in 0.9.3) |
| 22:24.53 | CoreDump|home | every once in a while it will work, then you log out, log in again, and the bug is back |
| 22:25.55 | CoreDump|home | easiely detectable by the unreadable window title font. That's not a theme problem, it's the bug |
| 22:26.52 | CoreDump|home | (and we cant patch the themes as a work-around since that would cause uber-large fonts on 100DPI devices...) |
| 22:28.23 | florian | :-/ |
| 22:28.32 | CoreDump|home | :( |
| 22:29.47 | florian | We could try to replace panel and desktop with gtk applications. That's some additional effort but would result in a consistent look&feel and easier theming. |
| 22:30.50 | CoreDump|home | while this is a neat idea, I believe it would be overkill just to fix a font problem hehe |
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| 22:31.35 | florian | yes maybe... but it would fix it for free ;-) |
| 22:31.41 | CoreDump|home | hehe |
| 22:32.14 | CoreDump|home | I fear that 3.5.4.1 is going to ship with 100dpi hardwired... |
| 22:32.27 | CoreDump|home | unreadable window-title are a no-go |
| 22:32.31 | florian | If someone volunteers for the panel i'll care about the desktop... |
| 22:32.42 | florian | indeed |
| 22:33.35 | CoreDump|home | I would if I could ;) The most annyoing thing about the panel is the lack of a window-bar as in tiny-little-icons-of-running-programs |
| 22:35.45 | florian | hmm... let's see if we can fix that |
| 22:36.34 | CoreDump|home | that would rock ;) People are used to something like that from any other OS / DE |
| 22:37.21 | florian | Let me see if i can configure gpe-buttonbox to do this and nothing more. |
| 22:39.20 | florian | almost... except of the one desktop button i don't get rid of |
| 22:40.54 | florian | That means that if we do this and make its resizing code a little bit cleverer we had an applet doing this job for us. |
| 22:41.12 | CoreDump|home | yeah |
| 22:42.50 | florian | CoreDump|home: remind me about that tomorrow, i think i can mange this. |
| 22:43.03 | CoreDump|home | will do, thanks ;) |
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| 22:44.36 | florian | maybe we could just break out some lines of code there and create a simple dock applet. pb__'s window bits and libgpelaunch do the major share of the nasty things for us. |
| 22:46.12 | CoreDump|home | simple = good |
| 22:47.45 | florian | and "one specific purpose" = UNIX :-) |
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| 22:52.24 | CoreDump|home | ~praise Unix |
| 22:52.26 | ibot | All hail Unix! |
| 22:53.19 | florian | :-) |
| 22:53.47 | florian | hmm... my device with the latest todo list ran out of battery :-/ |
| 22:57.18 | CoreDump|home | heh |
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| 23:09.05 | florian | Todo list... syncing... Funabol plugin... |
| 23:33.10 | florian | good night |
