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| 02:55.10 | Russ | has anyone gotten the snes9x emulator working? |
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| 08:17.08 | bedboi | i |
| 08:17.12 | bedboi | hi |
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| 08:26.20 | koen | good morning all |
| 08:27.21 | bedboi | hi there koen |
| 08:27.53 | bedboi | koen: btw i added a delete button to gpe-calendar popup (the one that get shown when you click on an event) |
| 08:27.58 | koen | hey bedboi |
| 08:31.20 | bedboi | any news? |
| 08:32.42 | koen | I think florian fixed the ownerinfo bug yesterday |
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| 08:51.47 | reenoo | morning |
| 08:51.55 | koen | hey reenoo |
| 08:52.02 | reenoo | hi koen |
| 09:44.51 | pb_ | hi mickeyl |
| 09:44.52 | pb_ | hi reenoo |
| 09:44.59 | mickeyl | hi pb_ |
| 09:45.00 | mickeyl | yo reenoo |
| 09:51.40 | reenoo | hey pb_ |
| 09:51.44 | reenoo | moin mickeyl |
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| 09:58.55 | lucasvo | ehm when I compile gpe with bitbake gpe-image what do I get, an image to flash on my pda? |
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| 10:34.10 | jsmanrique | morning |
| 10:38.27 | *** join/#gpe florian_kc (n=fuchs@dns.kernelconcepts.de) |
| 10:40.09 | florian_kc | hi all |
| 10:40.35 | jsmanrique | florian_kc: hi! |
| 10:47.37 | rob_w-cgi | what is the standard device the backlight writes to /sys/class ?? |
| 10:48.16 | florian_kc | rob_w-cgi: that depends on the hardware platform |
| 10:49.41 | rob_w-cgi | right my hardware now has it at /sys/class/backlight/w100fb/brightness|max_brigthness |
| 10:49.56 | rob_w-cgi | so where would the h3900 has it .. so i can symlink to there |
| 10:51.43 | rob_w-cgi | oh never mind it works already .. hehe |
| 10:52.11 | florian_kc | :-) |
| 10:52.13 | rob_w-cgi | next question : how do i checkout a tag ? |
| 10:52.37 | florian_kc | -r <TAG> |
| 10:54.13 | rob_w-cgi | great thanks |
| 10:59.08 | koen | hey florian_kc & rob_w-cgi & jsmanrique |
| 10:59.52 | rob_w-cgi | hey koen |
| 11:01.19 | florian_kc | hi koen |
| 11:04.55 | koen | http://pastebin.com/382504 |
| 11:06.05 | florian_kc | koen: that might be useful sometimes... |
| 11:06.27 | reenoo | koen: probably want to make that an action rather than an application |
| 11:06.37 | reenoo | hola jsmanrique |
| 11:06.42 | reenoo | hi rob_w-cgi |
| 11:08.06 | pb_ | hi florian_kc |
| 11:08.44 | reenoo | oh. heh |
| 11:08.50 | reenoo | hey florian_kc |
| 11:10.03 | florian_kc | hi pb_, hi reenoo |
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| 13:28.24 | rob_w-cgi | cvs co MYPROJECT -r MYTAG doesnt work |
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| 13:38.26 | pb_ | that's very sad |
| 13:44.31 | reenoo | I hope the sdl crap is fixed for real now |
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| 13:54.27 | pb_ | yeah, let's hope |
| 13:54.30 | pb_ | what was the problem in the end? |
| 13:55.27 | bedboi | is there any way to use an ipaq as a bluetooth handsfree device? |
| 13:57.11 | ||cw | bedboi: if there's software to do it, probably |
| 13:57.18 | ||cw | i haven't seen any though |
| 14:02.15 | reenoo | pb_: the package renaming code got upset by the fact that there was an executable in /usr/bin |
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| 14:02.42 | reenoo | pb_: but since sdl-config belongs in the -dev package anyway that was trivial to fix |
| 14:05.34 | reenoo | rob_w-cgi: the BlueAngel looks kind of cute. I take it you can boot with the rootfs on SD now? |
| 14:16.25 | rob_w-cgi | reenoo |
| 14:16.27 | rob_w-cgi | reenoo yep |
| 14:16.48 | rob_w-cgi | and the phone part is working to some extend already |
| 14:18.53 | reenoo | cool |
| 14:19.54 | rob_w-cgi | yep going tobe the first gpe phone pda , or so |
| 14:20.18 | koen | if the h6300 people don't beat you ;) |
| 14:20.33 | rob_w-cgi | hehe well we dont compete , right ! |
| 14:21.13 | rob_w-cgi | i wonder if the h6300 uses the same wifi |
| 14:21.13 | Georgy_away | quite cool...linux smartphone ;) |
| 14:21.22 | Georgy_away | no more pute-winCE-domains ;) |
| 14:21.31 | koen | an *open* linux smartphone |
| 14:21.44 | koen | not some closed source QTopia crap |
| 14:22.08 | rob_w-cgi | CORRECT |
| 14:22.08 | koen | where crap relates to the closedness |
| 14:22.24 | koen | qtopia phone edition is pretty nice |
| 14:22.46 | zecke | koen: sick? |
| 14:22.59 | koen | zecke: not really |
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| 14:23.36 | koen | it makes sense to run qt/e on a resource tight device |
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| 14:23.53 | koen | 32MB ram is not resource tight |
| 14:23.57 | florian_kc | koen: really? I don't really like it and from what i know you need to code your applications more or less from scratch anyway. |
| 14:24.13 | Cwiiis | Hi all |
| 14:24.24 | florian_kc | hi Cwiiis |
| 14:24.29 | rob_w-cgi | crap the h6300 uses a different wifi |
| 14:26.11 | Cwiiis | Does anyone recall what version of gtkhtml Phillipe worked on? |
| 14:26.31 | koen | the bloated one |
| 14:26.45 | Cwiiis | 3 then I take it? |
| 14:26.56 | reenoo | yeah |
| 14:27.04 | Cwiiis | right, thanks |
| 14:27.32 | reenoo | probably want to use gtk webcore rather than that crap though |
| 14:27.47 | Cwiiis | That's what people say :) |
| 14:30.10 | koen | Kompo: did you manage to get webkit-gtk working? |
| 14:30.45 | reenoo | rob_w-cgi: where have you got yours from? O2? |
| 14:31.37 | rob_w-cgi | yep |
| 14:31.46 | rob_w-cgi | i got the black one without crappy camera |
| 14:32.55 | reenoo | hmm |
| 14:34.01 | reenoo | so, if I got one from O2 I'd have to "buy" a contract as well? |
| 14:36.06 | rob_w-cgi | well you can buy the device for big money alone .. or go ebay |
| 14:36.34 | pb_ | reenoo: ah, right. very good. |
| 14:37.46 | rob_w-cgi | i had to renew my contract so i took that within |
| 14:39.30 | Kompo | koen: yep, it works pretty ok. has some missing stuff though, so not currently usable |
| 14:39.49 | koen | Kompo: does libsoup do its job? |
| 14:41.07 | Kompo | koen: yes. although I haven't done anything for https, because in principle one must use gnutls api to manipulate the certificates |
| 14:41.24 | Kompo | koen: but other than that, libsoup is used to fetch data from network |
| 14:41.56 | Kompo | koen: s/from network/using http/ |
| 14:42.25 | koen | nice |
| 14:43.01 | koen | the gnutils part should be in the browser or in webkit? |
| 14:43.25 | Kompo | koen: other thing what's bad for gpe is that new depends include stdc++ and icu. stdc++ should be easy to fake, but icu is bad, because it provides good unicode handling but it's over 9mb when installed |
| 14:43.49 | Kompo | argh. s/depends/dependencides/ |
| 14:43.50 | koen | eeks! |
| 14:45.01 | koen | at the risk of sounding incredibly ignorant: can't glib/pango handle the unicode stuff? |
| 14:45.02 | Kompo | glib provides unicode handling also, but glib uses real unicode or utf-8, and webcore, javascriptcore work on utf-16 which icu supports "natively" |
| 14:46.41 | Kompo | So one either needs to code used icu stuff by hand or make some sort of stub that converts the calls to glib (most probable alternative). The problem is that I need to find time to read unicode specs so that the conversion from utf-16 to ucs-4 is sane and the glib functions return needed stuff |
| 14:48.45 | reenoo | well. yeah. but 9MB in dependencies render things rather useless for interesting targets |
| 14:49.17 | reenoo | I mean, I don't see webkit compete with gecko on desktops |
| 14:50.12 | Kompo | Yeah. but it makes sense in environments where the dependencies are already there (mac os x).. |
| 14:50.37 | reenoo | ah, so it's something apple introduced? |
| 14:51.11 | Kompo | Yes.. |
| 14:51.39 | reenoo | ah, ok. I misunderstood that then. sorry |
| 14:52.29 | Kompo | But I think it's solvable problem. It's just basic character functions like isupper/lower/alpha/blank.. The problem is that nobody want's to implement those, because unicode handling non-trivial and error-prone. |
| 14:53.03 | bedboi | http://www.soft.uni-linz.ac.at/_wiki/tiki-index.php?page=ProjectBluezHandsfree |
| 14:53.07 | reenoo | right |
| 14:53.12 | reenoo | http://www.cafepress.com/nucleartacos.26746951 |
| 14:54.05 | florian_kc | Anyone an idea how much flash/memory HAL takes up? |
| 14:54.24 | koen | florian_kc: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/drupal/?q=ipkgfind&action=details&pnm=hal |
| 14:54.33 | koen | the ipk is 234kB |
| 14:58.02 | florian_kc | hrm.. that seems to depend on python :-/ |
| 14:58.43 | koen | florian_kc: the gui does |
| 14:58.52 | florian_kc | ah... |
| 14:59.31 | florian_kc | bedboi: that looks interesting... |
| 14:59.49 | florian_kc | bedboi: Do you like my gpe-calendar changes? |
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| 15:03.05 | bedboi | florian_kc: yes. i fixed something |
| 15:03.33 | bedboi | and now fonts are bigger |
| 15:04.49 | florian_kc | bedboi: great! |
| 15:05.02 | krokas_ | koen: As I understand you have a Nokia 770? |
| 15:05.22 | florian_kc | hi krokas_ |
| 15:05.28 | krokas_ | hey all |
| 15:05.31 | krokas_ | hey florian_kc |
| 15:06.44 | krokas_ | I had just a suggestion to make a public access to a Nokia 770 as a dev cluster |
| 15:07.54 | koen | krokas_: no I don't have a 770 (yet) |
| 15:17.07 | koen | florian_kc: note that hal requires a recent (>0.33) dbus |
| 15:19.24 | florian_kc | koen: Right... on my pc i have a working set of hal/dbus. But i'm not convinced it that will ever become usable for our devices. |
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| 15:22.47 | koen | hal 0.5.5 will have mmc support :) |
| 15:23.45 | koen | florian_kc: without the device-manager hal is 188kB |
| 15:25.47 | koen | florian_kc: but yes, hal is too feature rich for handhelds |
| 15:26.06 | florian_kc | koen: yes... but its device information seems to take up quite some memory and supports a pile of stuff completely useless on a pda. |
| 15:26.38 | florian_kc | koen: some things like updating fstab even might be dangerous. |
| 15:27.40 | koen | http://pastebin.com/382710 |
| 15:27.53 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:28.22 | florian_kc | koen: But the worst issue is that it seems to depend on an up to date kernel 2.6 we lack on many devices. |
| 15:29.34 | florian_kc | koen: hmm... that's not too bad... it even ships some useless stuff. |
| 15:30.16 | florian_kc | (e.g. 4, 5, 9, 10) |
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| 15:35.43 | rob_w-cgi | do we have ipk`s of getkeycode s |
| 15:42.31 | koen | florian_kc: I added hal 0.5.4 to OE which doesn't package all that cruft |
| 15:43.01 | florian_kc | koen: ah cool |
| 15:43.15 | florian_kc | koen: do we have anything using hal? |
| 15:43.28 | koen | maybe the gnome stuff |
| 15:46.24 | florian_kc | Hrm... why does hal have extra namespace for oss and alsa?! |
| 15:49.42 | koen | because it can |
| 15:53.47 | florian_kc | :-( |
| 16:51.24 | koen | florian_kc: did you see my patch for /etc/X11/Xserver? |
| 16:54.54 | florian_kc | koen: yes... that looks useful, i'll check in this later. |
| 16:55.46 | koen | it fixes matchbox-keyboard on vga screens |
| 16:56.40 | reenoo | hmm. which patch? |
| 16:57.41 | koen | http://handhelds.org/~bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1407 |
| 16:57.53 | koen | the patch: http://handhelds.org/~bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=121&action=view |
| 17:00.28 | reenoo | ah, nice |
| 17:02.21 | reenoo | koen: did you upload a snapshot of OE when you released 0.8.2 btw? |
| 17:03.16 | koen | I didn't since we tagged it in bk |
| 17:03.28 | reenoo | doh |
| 17:03.34 | koen | if someone really needs it I still have the cvsexoprt of bk |
| 17:04.00 | reenoo | ~lart koen |
| 17:04.14 | reenoo | well. yeah. I need it :P |
| 17:04.58 | reenoo | I take it the cvsexport doesn't contain the tagging info, does it? |
| 17:05.12 | koen | http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/bk-export.tar.bz2 |
| 17:05.17 | koen | it should have tags |
| 17:05.38 | koen | 14 MB for the tarball |
| 17:06.07 | mreimer | koen: will familiar 0.8.3 use xserver-kdrive_cvs, now that it's working? |
| 17:06.39 | koen | I haven't tested that one yet |
| 17:07.04 | mreimer | if you do, you'll need to use the no-serial-probe and disable-apm patches |
| 17:07.09 | reenoo | I strongly recommend not introducing floating cvs packages again |
| 17:07.25 | koen | http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/cvsexport/openembedded-repository-cvs-20050622.tar.gz |
| 17:07.31 | koen | the orginal file for Larry |
| 17:07.37 | koen | s/for/from/ |
| 17:07.51 | koen | reenoo: no, I want kdrive pinned to 200506<something> |
| 17:08.03 | mreimer | reenoo: I agree. I guess I mean a newer kdrive than 20050207 |
| 17:08.25 | reenoo | mreimer: well. why? |
| 17:08.58 | mreimer | haven't there been some bug fixes since Feb? |
| 17:09.06 | mreimer | I could be wrong |
| 17:09.15 | reenoo | bug fixes? in kdrive? |
| 17:09.19 | koen | tslib was rewritten |
| 17:09.24 | koen | no more double frees |
| 17:09.30 | koen | tslib support that is |
| 17:09.34 | reenoo | kdrive is the X people's playground |
| 17:09.36 | mreimer | or in the dependent libraries like composite |
| 17:10.40 | reenoo | I'd say ship the same as in 0.8.2 |
| 17:10.53 | reenoo | and wait for proper releases |
| 17:11.21 | florian_kc | I suppose buttons won't work with latest kdrive... |
| 17:11.41 | mreimer | fair enough. especially in the lack of hard evidence of any benefit to upgrading |
| 17:12.02 | koen | florian_kc: ph5 should have fixed that |
| 17:12.22 | florian_kc | koen: that would be nice |
| 17:12.27 | koen | x was looking for the keysymdb in the wrong place |
| 17:12.27 | mreimer | buttons work fine for me with the latest |
| 17:15.52 | florian_kc | mreimer: sounds good |
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| 17:20.15 | koen | packages//x11/files/errordb-keysymdb-path-fix.patch should take care of the keys |
| 17:24.30 | reenoo | well. how about shipping the old but known-good versions with the images and distributing more recent stuff through the unstable feed? |
| 17:25.32 | koen | I'm all for that |
| 17:25.41 | florian_kc | hmmm right, that reminds me to the fact that we should take more care about maintaining a proper unstable and update feed. |
| 17:25.45 | koen | and regular updates via an updates feed |
| 17:27.29 | florian_kc | :-) |
| 17:32.30 | reenoo | sounds like a plan, yeah |
| 17:32.59 | reenoo | and with gpg-agent uploading should be pretty painless |
| 17:33.09 | koen | indeed |
| 17:33.31 | reenoo | we'd just need an agreement on how to handle source packages |
| 17:34.00 | *** join/#gpe shiyee (n=Shiyee@0x555146e5.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 17:34.02 | koen | My plan was to build with sourcepkg.bbclass enabled and upload that |
| 17:34.17 | koen | along with a tarball of the branch |
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| 17:35.39 | bedboi | http://pastebin.com/382872 <--- did anyone ever seen this linking error? |
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| 17:36.51 | TyggerBob | 'lo all |
| 17:37.05 | reenoo | koen: well. you can't upload a tarball of the entire branch every time you upload to unstable |
| 17:37.13 | reenoo | hey TyggerBob |
| 17:37.16 | florian_kc | hi shiyee, hi TyggerBob |
| 17:37.28 | koen | reenoo: ah, you were talking about updates |
| 17:37.46 | TyggerBob | just have to get the the time to get it all set up |
| 17:38.08 | florian_kc | bedboi: uh... that looks strange |
| 17:38.24 | TyggerBob | koen, is there a newer version of GPE than that 0913 one? |
| 17:38.46 | koen | yes |
| 17:38.51 | bedboi | florian_kc: really strange. i don't have any clue |
| 17:39.01 | koen | TyggerBob: http://familiar.handhelds.org/snapshots/v0.8.3/20051003/gpe-image-h3900-20051003112348.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 17:39.11 | reenoo | koen: yeah. that's the point behind the unstable feed after all ;) |
| 17:39.21 | TyggerBob | I had nothing but problems with that one.. |
| 17:39.43 | TyggerBob | has a newer version of the orinoco driver that doesn't do monitor mode :( |
| 17:39.54 | TyggerBob | and Hostap was giving me problems too.. |
| 17:39.55 | koen | it should have 0.13a |
| 17:40.03 | TyggerBob | hrm... |
| 17:40.14 | TyggerBob | anyway, I'll try this new one.. |
| 17:40.18 | TyggerBob | see what's up |
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| 17:41.08 | florian_kc | TyggerBob: ah right... i ran into this too... |
| 17:42.06 | TyggerBob | And they do monitor mode for you fine? |
| 17:42.58 | koen | didn't really look at that |
| 17:43.05 | TyggerBob | ok.. |
| 17:43.09 | koen | any fast way to tell? |
| 17:43.18 | TyggerBob | iwconfig wlan0 mode monitor |
| 17:43.47 | TyggerBob | without installing Kismet though, hard to tell... |
| 17:43.52 | TyggerBob | if it's working properly |
| 17:44.40 | bedboi | koen: is there kismet in your feed? |
| 17:45.00 | koen | TyggerBob: it goes into monitor mode without complaining |
| 17:45.02 | TyggerBob | yes |
| 17:45.10 | koen | asus wl-110 |
| 17:45.32 | TyggerBob | bedboi, yes. it's there |
| 17:45.38 | bedboi | hmm |
| 17:46.11 | koen | http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/drupal/?q=ipkgfind&action=details&pnm=kismet |
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| 17:47.23 | krokas_ | By the way, why for in the officially compiled GPE images is used VFP, and not gcc emulation for the floating-point operations? |
| 17:47.34 | krokas_ | I think, the VFP is used as far as i seen |
| 17:47.50 | krokas_ | It is important for ABI |
| 17:48.01 | krokas_ | as different ABI's are used |
| 17:48.09 | reenoo | no shit, really? |
| 17:48.09 | krokas_ | and they are not compatible |
| 17:48.17 | koen | debian uses hardfpa |
| 17:48.26 | koen | and familiar needs to be compatible with that |
| 17:49.01 | krokas_ | ah, ok, i understand |
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| 17:50.11 | reenoo | I think it's more of a "want to" |
| 17:50.22 | reenoo | and debian doesn't matter too much IMO |
| 17:50.38 | krokas_ | But on the GPE DotNET floating-point operations are 4 times faster than on Mono ( when the DotGNU engine is compiled with gcc emulation) |
| 17:50.49 | reenoo | the real benefit is in remaining backwards compatible with 0.7.x |
| 17:52.10 | krokas_ | and the same should be for all other applications that use floating-point in GPE |
| 17:52.12 | Tygger_Bob | And we're off.. |
| 17:52.12 | krokas_ | i think |
| 17:52.19 | Tygger_Bob | (reflashing GPE over serial....) |
| 17:52.36 | krokas_ | i mean, an increase of about 4 times |
| 17:52.39 | krokas_ | in speed |
| 17:52.50 | koen | you can get over 50 times with softfloat |
| 17:53.19 | reenoo | krokas_: in case you still haven't noticed. softfloat isn't anything new and we know it's faster |
| 17:53.28 | krokas_ | yes i believe you |
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| 17:53.41 | krokas_ | reenoo: i noticed it |
| 17:54.02 | koen | TyggerBob: didn't you have a kismet.bb lying around? |
| 17:54.13 | koen | TyggerBob: I recall something about waiting for someone else |
| 17:54.35 | krokas_ | reenoo: I was just wondering why use VFP emulation in the GPE image |
| 17:54.53 | krokas_ | when all use a ARM4l base handheld |
| 17:55.01 | Tygger_Bob | Yeah.. I was going to do the bb, but Phil said someone else was doing to do it.. so I didn't continue on with it.. |
| 17:55.17 | koen | TyggerBob: guess what ;) |
| 17:55.21 | Tygger_Bob | And my old bitbuilder machine has been redone.. |
| 17:55.28 | Tygger_Bob | so my .bb is gone |
| 17:55.41 | Tygger_Bob | Didn't think I needed it |
| 17:55.56 | Tygger_Bob | url for your feed? |
| 17:56.03 | krokas_ | reenoo: without a hardware VFP |
| 17:56.28 | krokas_ | sorry VFP -> FPA |
| 17:56.34 | koen | TyggerBob: scroll up a few lines :) |
| 17:56.49 | Tygger_Bob | Doh |
| 17:56.57 | krokas_ | * all above I was talking about FPA and not VFP * |
| 17:57.43 | Tygger_Bob | same location as the snapshot? |
| 17:58.25 | reenoo | krokas_: you've named the reason yourself: incompatible ABI |
| 17:59.01 | krokas_ | reenoo: but if i recompile all with gcc float all should work and much faster ? |
| 17:59.22 | krokas_ | I mean, i can recompile all myself in OE |
| 17:59.24 | reenoo | krokas_: feel free to |
| 17:59.37 | krokas_ | yes, but why not officially |
| 17:59.52 | krokas_ | other then the Familiar is compiled with FPA by default |
| 18:00.12 | reenoo | dude. I'm not going to repeat myself again |
| 18:01.46 | krokas_ | reenoo: Can you copy -> past your answer that was ? |
| 18:02.32 | reenoo | <reenoo> krokas_: you've named the reason yourself: incompatible ABI |
| 18:03.01 | krokas_ | reenoo: i think, i didn't understand the structure of GPE, yet |
| 18:03.22 | reenoo | GPE has nothing to do with that |
| 18:03.23 | krokas_ | reenoo: I mean, i thought of it as of a separate OS, like |
| 18:03.36 | reenoo | GPE is not an OS |
| 18:03.40 | krokas_ | reenoo: like Debian is different for Redhat or Suse |
| 18:03.43 | koen | Tygger_Bob: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/feed/kismet_2005-08-R1-r0_armv5te.ipk |
| 18:03.55 | krokas_ | reenoo: ok |
| 18:04.19 | Tygger_Bob | koen, then someone's been doing .bb's for it.. if it's that current |
| 18:04.29 | Tygger_Bob | that's the most recent version |
| 18:04.34 | koen | I copied an old one |
| 18:04.48 | Tygger_Bob | Ahhh |
| 18:05.09 | Tygger_Bob | I gotta scoot.. |
| 18:05.12 | Tygger_Bob | talk to you all later.. |
| 18:21.54 | florian_kc | bbl |
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| 18:52.27 | mimecar | hi |
| 18:53.22 | dtch_lx | hi |
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| 19:48.27 | bedboi | going home |
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| 20:01.11 | mimecar | hi |
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| 20:48.50 | mimecar | there is not conversations today :( |
| 20:48.57 | mimecar | working ? |
| 20:56.29 | *** join/#gpe florian_ (n=fuchs@p5083CB3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:57.02 | florian_ | re |
| 20:57.14 | mimecar | hey florian_ |
| 20:59.03 | rob_w | a depends in a bb file also brings that into the ipk packagaing , right ? |
| 20:59.56 | florian_ | ~lart gconf |
| 21:00.44 | koen | hey florian_ |
| 21:01.02 | koen | rob_w: if it links against it, yes |
| 21:01.14 | koen | rob_w: otherwise you have to put it in RDEPENDS too |
| 21:01.38 | rob_w | aha |
| 21:01.52 | rob_w | so i need sqlite dbus and alsa in gomunicator then |
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| 21:03.59 | koen | I guess so |
| 21:06.41 | koen | rob_w: you can attach patches to bugs.openembedded.org to get them applied |
| 21:07.06 | rob_w | allrighto ! |
| 21:07.12 | rob_w | that sounds cool |
| 21:08.42 | koen | rob_w: what was the patch for gpe-contacts you mentioned? |
| 21:09.00 | rob_w | i will let cp15 send it to there also ! |
| 21:09.26 | rob_w | oh |
| 21:09.37 | rob_w | ahm that is not the correct destination for that |
| 21:09.54 | koen | gpe@handhelds.org or handhelds.org/~bugzilla |
| 21:12.31 | reenoo|work | ~users |
| 21:12.32 | ibot | so this is what we get for sharing our unpaid volunteer work with you? complaints and accuses? <irony> well done, this clearly supports our motivation to continue working on open source projects. </irony> |
| 21:12.41 | koen | heh |
| 21:12.44 | koen | reenoo|work: having fun? |
| 21:13.21 | reenoo|work | yah |
| 21:13.33 | rob_w | cp15 is not yet finished with gpe-contacts |
| 21:13.36 | koen | reenoo|work: http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=20670&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=125 looks promising |
| 21:14.58 | koen | you mean gpe patches, right? |
| 21:16.39 | reenoo|work | ~lart forums |
| 21:17.02 | mimecar | xDD |
| 21:17.19 | florian_ | koen: Not only... we focus this problem with all sorts of software. |
| 21:18.04 | reenoo|work | florian_: what type of problem in particular? |
| 21:19.26 | florian_ | reenoo|work, koen: We can easily add patches to oe stuff but we should focus on fixing stuff in the upstream software instead of focusing on maintaining fixes in oe. |
| 21:20.21 | reenoo|work | florian_: feel free to push patches upstream |
| 21:20.33 | koen | florian_: you generalized patches |
| 21:20.52 | koen | if someone has a patch for a .bb it should go into the bugtracker |
| 21:20.53 | florian_ | A good rule would be to submit some fix first to upstream and add them to oe then... |
| 21:21.14 | reenoo|work | that doesn't make a lot of sense |
| 21:21.18 | florian_ | koen: of course... it should be clear that i don't mean fixes to bbs. |
| 21:21.43 | reenoo|work | for the most part patches in OE are either OE specific or upstream doesn't care |
| 21:22.31 | florian_ | reenoo|work: This doesn't make sense... i don't know enough about all the details. Only the authors know... |
| 21:22.47 | reenoo|work | heh |
| 21:22.49 | zecke | reenoo|work: sorry to raise my voice, but I think we really suck in contacting upstream |
| 21:23.27 | florian_ | reenoo|work: I merged in a pile of patches in gpe the authors didn't contact us... |
| 21:24.12 | florian_ | reenoo|work: we have specific stuff, but in oe is a lot of stuff upstream maintainers might be interested in. |
| 21:24.45 | reenoo|work | >70% of relevant patches are build system fixes upstream doesn't give a damn about |
| 21:25.25 | florian_ | reenoo|work: and it is _really_ useless if someone looks at patches he didn't write to choose which should go to upstream. |
| 21:26.18 | florian_ | reenoo|work: I don't think thats true - most OE developers don's take care about that... that's the point. |
| 21:26.34 | reenoo|work | well. I have tried and given up |
| 21:27.12 | florian_ | brb, restarting X |
| 21:33.43 | mimecar | is there any html editor on gpe or should I use notepad ? |
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| 21:35.27 | florian | re |
| 21:35.36 | reenoo|work | florian: wb |
| 21:35.40 | reenoo|work | zecke: fwiw, there's nothing special about OE in that respect. all distributions have tons of patches that never go upstream. maybe canonical's launchpad will help address that issue. I don't know |
| 21:35.45 | ||cw | mimecar: gpe-edit somes with, don't know if there's anything more powerfull |
| 21:36.51 | zecke | reenoo|work: at least the launchpad is promising |
| 21:37.10 | zecke | in the OpenZaurus buildroot days, I did what florian does know, go out and collect patches |
| 21:37.49 | koen | UPSTREAM = "mailaddres" |
| 21:37.58 | koen | bitbake patch-sender |
| 21:38.14 | zecke | well when I started with OE |
| 21:38.19 | mimecar | ok ||cw |
| 21:38.40 | zecke | I added ~10 QPE games to it. And I mailed the upstream author(s) |
| 21:38.41 | reenoo|work | florian: I didn't get to writing my initial point down... you proposed to take issues/patches up with upstream first... that logic doesn't work. before even thinking about contacting upstream you need to make absolutely sure your patch works. otherwise you have to go through the whole "push upstream" procedure multiple times and may even be ignored... |
| 21:39.17 | reenoo|work | florian: a lot of the patches in OE lack the final polishing to make that happen |
| 21:39.55 | reenoo|work | koen: well. first of all. a simple question: who is upstream for say xhost? |
| 21:40.22 | koen | reenoo|work: there are too much problems with my idea to mention |
| 21:41.36 | reenoo|work | koen: sure. but seriously. I have tried to find out who upstream is for the x apps and failed |
| 21:41.50 | koen | heh |
| 21:41.52 | florian | reenoo|work: At least you should try and find out what is lacking. Noone stops you from building packages with patches in OE, we can use them and that's fine, but before pusing a patch to OE repository think about sending it to the upstream maintainers. |
| 21:42.07 | koen | I actually got a "nobody cares enough" response once |
| 21:42.21 | reenoo|work | florian: not going to happen |
| 21:42.34 | reenoo|work | there's more important stuff to waste my time on |
| 21:42.44 | reenoo|work | all distros do it that way |
| 21:42.49 | reenoo|work | we are no exception |
| 21:42.56 | reenoo|work | sad |
| 21:42.58 | florian | reenoo|work: if noone starts the situation won't improve. I just hope not everyone thinks like you do. |
| 21:42.58 | reenoo|work | but true+ |
| 21:43.22 | reenoo|work | hire me. and I may consider it |
| 21:44.23 | florian | reenoo|work: You can do good things with money... but i would _never_ hire someone who says something like this. |
| 21:44.51 | pb_ | reenoo|work: upstream for the x apps is xorg@lists.freedesktop.org, or bugzilla.freedesktop.org. |
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| 21:45.42 | reenoo|work | pb_: ok. will send another mail there |
| 21:46.24 | reenoo|work | florian: we are in violent agreement here. all patches in OE should be polished and sent upstream |
| 21:47.05 | koen | http://www.livejournal.com/users/inverted_tree/46205.html |
| 21:47.20 | koen | mentions gtk stylus mode |
| 21:47.22 | reenoo|work | florian: but with the limited spare time I have I need to make the decision. either discuss with upstream or get work done. I tend to choose the latter. |
| 21:49.39 | florian | reenoo|work: I suppose you know what i mean... just try and if they don't accept it there is a good reason to maintain it in oe but without trying it isn't. |
| 21:52.07 | reenoo|work | yah. fwiw, this is a serious and wide-spread issue |
| 21:52.46 | reenoo|work | we (upstream gnu classpath, fedora and debian maintainers, me) discussed this in Oldenburg |
| 21:53.03 | reenoo|work | what people really want to see in some central patch repository |
| 21:53.09 | reenoo|work | s/in/is/ |
| 21:53.45 | reenoo|work | that's an approach that scales very well in contrast to the "subscribe to thousands of mailing lists" approach |
| 21:54.29 | florian | That's maybe really a good idea... |
| 21:55.04 | koen | isn't that what launchpad does? |
| 21:55.07 | florian | Are there any ongoing projects to create something like this? |
| 21:55.22 | reenoo|work | yeah. canonical's launchpad |
| 21:55.29 | *** topic/#gpe by florian -> The GPE Palmtop Environment - http://gpe.handhelds.org/ | GPE Wiki: http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/GPEProject |familiar snapshots: http://familiar.handhelds.org/snapshots/ | Development Manual (in progress): http://www.kernelconcepts.de/~fuchs/gpe/doc/devmanual/ | GPE 2.7 frozen. Finish the bugfixing -> http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/GPEToFixFor2_2e7 |
| 21:55.57 | reenoo|work | closed source/proprietary though atm |
| 21:56.06 | florian | I heared a talk mentioning this at Guadec. |
| 21:56.14 | koen | malone is pretty nice too |
| 21:57.26 | florian | Is this that "meta-bugzilla"? |
| 21:58.10 | reenoo|work | dunno. the concepts sound like it though |
| 21:59.14 | koen | malone is the meta-bugzilla |
| 22:00.39 | chipi | my eyes are closing |
| 22:01.53 | florian | koen: that would be interesting for that oe vs. gpe buzilla... but that patch repository idea is more interesting. |
| 22:02.14 | koen | the 2 combined is even better |
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| 22:06.55 | reenoo | btw, IIRC the problem with the x apps was that there's some apparently stale project for "autotoolizing x applications" and regular xorg. and nobody felt responsible |
| 22:07.11 | reenoo | (a year ago or so) |
| 22:07.35 | reenoo | back then xorg's build system was all imake based |
| 22:08.49 | florian | That might be true... building Xorg is a pain if you don't have a set of stuff installed it depends on... because imake doesn't check/care. |
| 22:08.55 | reenoo | most patches I have in OE are like that - autools related fixes, hard to convince upstream of their importance |
| 22:09.45 | reenoo | functional patches have all gone upstream (read: rotting in some bugzilla) or aren't applicable for a wider use |
| 22:11.25 | reenoo | I will try to re-submit the autotools patches for the x apps |
| 22:12.52 | florian | That would be good... i just hope they will have a consistent build system some time :-/ |
| 22:13.30 | koen | xorg 7.0 is getting pushed away further and further |
| 22:13.56 | reenoo | florian: yah. and that's part of the problem |
| 22:14.24 | reenoo | the code in question had copyright headers from the early 80s |
| 22:14.46 | koen | vintage |
| 22:15.13 | florian | uh |
| 22:16.43 | reenoo | well. make that late 80s. but still |
| 22:17.07 | florian | :-) |
| 22:18.23 | reenoo | the point being that it's manageable to create an autotools build system that works for OE or Linux in general |
| 22:19.01 | reenoo | but what about all the other platforms for which there are tons of #ifdefs in there? |
| 22:20.33 | florian | That's an important point... i don't know how autotools performs on other platforms, but it is advanced autotools hacking at least. |
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| 22:22.22 | reenoo | anyways. I hope you understand now that I'm not that ignorant after all ;) I'd really like to see more stuff go upstream. |
| 22:24.42 | florian | reenoo: yes :-) |
| 22:25.17 | reenoo | :) |
| 22:28.42 | reenoo | actually we could make OE provide some sort of patch repo |
| 22:28.55 | reenoo | the metadata is all there |
| 22:29.23 | reenoo | we'd need some sort of web-interface on top of it |
| 22:29.51 | koen | packages.oe.org |
| 22:30.36 | reenoo | something like that, yeah |
| 22:31.18 | reenoo | residing in monotone OE is very "inaccessible" for upstream authors and other distro people right now |
| 22:32.49 | reenoo | more time for all! |
| 22:32.50 | koen | anything other than plain http is inaccessible |
| 22:33.04 | reenoo | right |
| 22:35.29 | reenoo | koen: sadly, ross never got a reply to his mail to gtk-devel :/ |
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| 22:35.51 | koen | I noticed |
| 22:36.26 | reenoo | florian: speaking of which. have you got a reply to the project ridley==bloat concerns you raised? |
| 22:36.54 | reenoo | I went on vacation that week and didn't follow the discussion |
| 22:37.14 | koen | I don't think you missed anything |
| 22:37.26 | reenoo | :( |
| 22:37.35 | florian | reenoo: no... if i din't miss something i didn't get a useful reply. But i just have some hope people read this mail and have it in mind. |
| 22:37.55 | reenoo | yeah. let's hope for the best |
| 22:37.58 | koen | I did have a brief glimpse of hope when they said libxml2 is unaccaptable as a dep |
| 22:38.07 | reenoo | hehe |
| 22:38.12 | koen | for the 'recent files' stuff |
| 22:38.34 | reenoo | oh, really? that sounds not that bad at all |
| 22:39.40 | koen | from what I understood of it the argument was "we have gmarkup" and "we could have xbel support" |
| 22:39.57 | koen | and I don't know what xbel is, so I got lost |
| 22:40.13 | reenoo | heh. was going to ask about that. nevermind ;) |
| 22:41.13 | koen | followed by 'DV will shoot us if he finds out' |
| 22:41.40 | reenoo | finds out they switch away from libxml2? |
| 22:42.02 | koen | that they want to absorp a bit of libxml2 into glib (again) |
| 22:43.02 | reenoo | oh, right. shouldn't have licensed his code under bsd then I guess |
| 22:43.32 | reenoo | he mentioned regretting that on his blog once |
| 22:43.58 | koen | I read that |
| 22:51.44 | koen | reenoo: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2005-October/msg00016.html |
| 22:52.57 | reenoo | believe it or not. I know that guy from a local LUG |
| 22:55.16 | reenoo | looks like he's flooding gtk-devel with his rants now |
| 22:55.21 | reenoo | oh well |
| 22:55.43 | koen | let's decide not to pay attention |
| 22:56.24 | reenoo | yeah. I was going to point him to OE once. but then decided that might not be the best idea >:) |
| 22:56.50 | reenoo | it seems I was right no to do it |
| 22:56.58 | reenoo | s/no/not |
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| 22:58.16 | reenoo | anyways. I'm off to bed. |
| 22:58.18 | reenoo | 'night all |
| 22:58.22 | koen | 'night reenoo |
| 23:00.14 | florian | reenoo: good night |
| 23:00.19 | florian | hi zoot |
| 23:01.43 | koen | 'night all |
| 23:28.16 | florian | good night |