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| 03:24.08 | Cwiiis | heh, gconf-dbus relies on libxml2... |
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| 09:35.19 | Somez | hi everyone! |
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| 09:45.42 | koen | good morning all |
| 09:56.31 | p0m | Morning koen. |
| 09:57.07 | koen | hey p0m |
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| 10:09.36 | koen | hey tigrux |
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| 11:14.41 | florian | hi all |
| 11:14.45 | koen | hey florian |
| 11:14.50 | koen | back in siegen? |
| 11:15.55 | Cwiiis | Morning florian, koen, all |
| 11:16.22 | koen | florian: I suspect that gpe-package manager doesn't parse src/gz in the 'feeds' tab |
| 11:16.24 | koen | hey Cwiiis |
| 11:16.29 | florian | koen: no still at cebit, kc has a small box ah hoeft&wessel booth |
| 11:16.35 | Cwiiis | "NOTE: package gpe-gconf-image-1.0: completed" - finally :) |
| 11:16.47 | florian | hi Cwiiis |
| 11:16.51 | koen | Cwiiis: how do you pronounce your nick? |
| 11:16.54 | Cwiiis | btw, libxml2 is a dependency of gconf-dbus - that isn't a good thing, is it? |
| 11:17.48 | florian | koen: it is expected to do this, if it doesn't that would be a bug |
| 11:18.10 | Cwiiis | koen: Kweeese (kind of rhyming with 'cheese', but with a slightly more elongated 'ee' sound - It was a nickname an old IT teacher inadvertantly gave to me (he couldn't pronounce my name right :))) |
| 11:18.50 | koen | florian: you can check it on your ipaq |
| 11:18.56 | koen | Cwiiis: I guessed it right :) |
| 11:19.22 | florian | koen: okay, will do this |
| 11:21.07 | koen | florian: it work correct internally, but the feeds don't get displayed for some reason |
| 11:26.04 | florian | koen: okay, that sounds like a bug. |
| 11:26.46 | koen | I only noticed after someone said 'I have no feeds!' |
| 11:27.08 | florian | koen: is that bug causing the list reacting on second mouse click fixed? |
| 11:27.25 | koen | florian: not that I know off |
| 11:28.23 | florian | hrmmm that must be a gtk thing :-/ |
| 11:28.33 | koen | I guess so |
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| 11:40.05 | Cwiiis | What's the bug? |
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| 12:13.29 | koen | Cwiiis: you can't do any actions in the packagemanager |
| 12:13.41 | koen | it want a middle mouse button for some reason |
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| 12:14.35 | Cwiiis | koen: You might want to take a look at the single-click TreeView patch I made for gtk a while back... I had no idea what I was doing then, and I have a feeling it may be causing that behaviour :s (sorry if it is) |
| 12:14.48 | koen | heh |
| 12:15.03 | Cwiiis | mallum: I had to patch libmatchbox to configure with automake 1.9 btw, trivial patch - is in OE |
| 12:15.04 | koen | Cwiiis: I'm not a coder, remember ;) |
| 12:15.16 | Cwiiis | koen: ok, will take a look later then :) hehe |
| 12:15.32 | Cwiiis | mallum: Also, settings-daemon segfaults on startup it seems? |
| 12:15.54 | Cwiiis | Not so sure about that, need wifi access to debug properly - so that may not be the case :p |
| 12:16.03 | mallum | Cwiiis: can you mail me it |
| 12:16.09 | Cwiiis | mallum: Sure thing |
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| 12:16.59 | Cwiiis | mallum: What address? |
| 12:18.48 | mallum | mallum@o-hand.com |
| 12:19.02 | mallum | Cwiiis: btw there are fixes in mb wm svn for lowlighting |
| 12:19.14 | Cwiiis | mallum: Ah, it works ok now? :) |
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| 12:20.05 | mallum | Cwiiis: should do ( fingers crossed ) |
| 12:20.52 | Cwiiis | mallum: What was the problem? (mail sent btw) |
| 12:21.09 | mallum | Cwiiis: re settings-daemon crash, try starting 'Xnest :1 -ac &', export DISPLAY=:1, settings-daemon -n |
| 12:22.33 | Cwiiis | mallum: ah, it needs -n? Will give that a shot |
| 12:22.49 | mallum | Cwiiis: the -n stops it forking |
| 12:22.58 | mallum | Cwiiis: just trying to fix that now |
| 12:23.56 | Cwiiis | Something's waiting forever when I log in, I'm guessing for xst... Will have to investigate later with wifi |
| 12:24.49 | mallum | Cwiiis: I just committed a change to make the fork happen earlier |
| 12:25.48 | mallum | Cwiiis: btw your svn libmb already has automake 1.9 fix, I just realised |
| 12:25.59 | Cwiiis | mallum: Ah, ok, nevermind then :) |
| 12:42.00 | mallum | florian: libgpewidget seems not to install it .pc files |
| 12:45.09 | mallum | florian: omg, it dont even install its headers |
| 12:47.45 | mallum | florian: ah seems I have to make install-devel |
| 12:47.48 | mallum | nice and standard |
| 12:48.59 | koen | heh |
| 12:49.13 | koen | the sarcasm came dripping out of my screen |
| 12:49.45 | koen | bleh |
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| 13:00.39 | Cwiiis | off to uni, bbl... |
| 13:22.59 | koen | florian_: any exciting new GPE-able gadgets at cebit? |
| 14:00.47 | florian_ | koen: not that many, but we are working on it :-) |
| 14:02.45 | koen | brrrrrrrrr |
| 14:07.22 | koen | let's hope it's better than the first version |
| 14:08.13 | koen | which summarizes as "defined and tested releases" |
| 14:10.11 | mallum | koen: yeah |
| 14:14.46 | koen | tigrux: good news about usbnet |
| 14:15.37 | koen | tigrux: I think I messed up my procmail, could you ask miguel to resend? |
| 14:15.47 | koen | not sure how many messages I've lost |
| 14:16.02 | tigrux | koen: Oki. |
| 14:16.19 | koen | thanks |
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| 14:31.10 | koen | mallum: should I file a bug for that bogus sys/vm86 check? |
| 14:31.41 | mallum | koen: yeah I would |
| 14:31.52 | mallum | koen: I honestly dont know what the 'right' fix is |
| 14:32.06 | mallum | koen: it would seem as it using x86 asm it should just check for x86 |
| 14:32.30 | mallum | koen: but I dont know what some of these crazy bios emu's do on wierd powerpc and arm boxes |
| 14:32.58 | koen | I know they choke on x86 asm |
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| 14:58.30 | koen | mallum: what would be the right severity for the kdrive bug? |
| 15:06.33 | koen | ok, it's in bugzilla now |
| 15:17.47 | mallum | koen: you have a url ? |
| 15:17.56 | mallum | koen: was replying to florians mail |
| 15:19.45 | koen | https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2723 |
| 15:19.57 | koen | mallum: have you read my reply to florian's mail? |
| 15:20.40 | mallum | koen: have now |
| 15:20.43 | mallum | koen: nice one |
| 15:21.42 | koen | last time I looked at autotools I got scared |
| 15:21.44 | mallum | koen: hmm so oe is definetly finding your hosr vm86 > |
| 15:21.53 | koen | yes |
| 15:21.55 | mallum | vm86.h |
| 15:22.17 | mallum | surely that is an oe error as well, it never used to ? |
| 15:22.31 | mallum | koen: autotools is easy |
| 15:22.34 | koen | don't know for sure |
| 15:23.33 | mallum | koen: look at Makefile.am and configure.ac in http://svn.o-hand.com/view/matchbox/trunk/settings-daemon/ for example |
| 15:24.15 | mallum | koen: thats all you need to worry about. its all the other crap autotools generates that makes it scary |
| 15:24.54 | koen | looks pretty easy |
| 15:27.37 | mallum | http://people.zeelandnet.nl/marco/pimpzilla/ |
| 15:30.21 | koen | too much plush for me |
| 15:31.01 | mallum | koen: your gf will like it though |
| 15:31.33 | koen | indeed |
| 15:31.39 | koen | she said it was cool |
| 15:33.22 | koen | mallum: you know something about webdesing, right? |
| 15:33.58 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:34.06 | koen | que? |
| 15:34.13 | koen | ~lart putty |
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| 15:39.21 | mallum | koen: yeah a bit |
| 15:39.55 | koen | mallum: could you enable the 'handhelds' theme in your hh.or wiki userprefs? |
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| 15:42.29 | mallum | koen: you shouldnt need to do any server side magic for handhelds if using css |
| 15:42.49 | koen | server side magic? |
| 15:42.57 | mallum | koen: there is a 'handhelds' css target just like screen or print that handheld browsers should honor |
| 15:43.25 | koen | mallum: yeah, I'm not making it the moin default theme yet |
| 15:43.48 | koen | and moin themes need some extra python code |
| 15:43.54 | koen | so it's not just a css change |
| 15:44.05 | mallum | hmm, moin sucks then |
| 15:44.36 | nilsf | koen: You had some other ideas about the release document I sent to you? |
| 15:44.48 | koen | hey nilsf |
| 15:44.52 | nilsf | koen: Hi! |
| 15:45.12 | koen | nilsf: the documents needs to target more than release management |
| 15:45.25 | nilsf | koen: I just read in Florian's IRC window that you hoped some change changes... |
| 15:45.40 | nilsf | Ah, maybe we shoudl do one thing at a time. |
| 15:46.00 | koen | nilsf: I emailed you most comments |
| 15:46.04 | nilsf | First know how to handle releases and then (maybe in parallel) seew what we'd like to see. |
| 15:46.13 | nilsf | Those are two different things for me. |
| 15:46.44 | koen | for me too, but they both need to be addressed |
| 15:47.10 | nilsf | koen: Indeed... but the release management thing is what conerns me most ATM. |
| 15:47.36 | mallum | nilsf: I would worry about the problems much lower down first |
| 15:47.54 | nilsf | koen: Without that we will not manage to gain any respect with hardware vendors and software solution providers. |
| 15:48.21 | nilsf | mallum: Which you mean? Button bars? autoconf? |
| 15:48.38 | mallum | nilsf: Im not even talking UI side of things |
| 15:48.51 | koen | nilsf: a real strong point would be GNOME adoption |
| 15:48.56 | mallum | nilsf: autoconf, documentation, library cleanups etc etc |
| 15:49.02 | nilsf | mallum: You know, having a software is nice but investing a lot of effort into something that does not have a platform is almost a waste. |
| 15:49.14 | koen | that's a real strong signal to any vendor |
| 15:49.21 | nilsf | koen: We are working on it. Wait for GUADEC... |
| 15:50.07 | nilsf | koen: Noone ever asked us on any occasion if and how we are reakted to Gnome. |
| 15:50.28 | nilsf | koen: They were most concerned about the state of the software in terms of version numbers ;) |
| 15:50.57 | mallum | nilsf: so putting version numbers on everything fixes everything ? |
| 15:51.14 | nilsf | mallum: Ah darn... mallum ... you know what I mean. |
| 15:51.14 | mallum | nilsf: you dont think apotential vendor may try and actually build the software |
| 15:51.30 | mallum | nilsf: or maybe try and develop somethig using a gpe lib ? |
| 15:51.32 | nilsf | mallum: No, I do not. They will leave the software for others. |
| 15:51.49 | nilsf | mallum: They actually do not care about the software at all (at least many do not). |
| 15:52.00 | mallum | nilsf: well they are very silly then |
| 15:52.15 | nilsf | mallum: Indeed... hardware people. They are only interested in sales. |
| 15:52.35 | nilsf | mallum: You only have to proove a minumumk to most of them. |
| 15:52.49 | nilsf | mallum: One thing is are certain features which you have to provide. |
| 15:53.08 | mallum | nilsf: even if they are interested in just sales, it still makes sense for them to have an easy to develop for platform |
| 15:53.13 | nilsf | mallum: The other is that you have to provide a stableplatofmr that will exist in the future. |
| 15:53.35 | mallum | nilsf: software easy to develop, much 3rd party software becomes available thus device sells more |
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| 15:53.54 | nilsf | mallum: Surely it does but that does gain any reputation we need *now*. What we need is a stable base that provides certain features. |
| 15:54.17 | nilsf | mallum: My idea was to first define "stable" for us. Then add "stable" features (what koen proposed). |
| 15:54.45 | nilsf | It is easier for us all to have a stable release management... it helps a lot focussing. |
| 15:54.51 | mallum | nilsf: ok but even defining stable means defining what the deps are, not just what gpe versions are released |
| 15:55.17 | nilsf | mallum: You are right that this should be done and nobody denies this. |
| 15:55.27 | nilsf | mallum: But somebody has to do it! You volunteer? |
| 15:56.09 | koen | nilsf: you can probably write an awk script to snatch the deps from OE |
| 15:56.22 | mallum | nilsf: I would move all of gpe cvs into a 'old' directory and rebuild things piece by piece starting from the ground up |
| 15:56.29 | koen | knowing them is nice, documenting them is best |
| 15:56.50 | mallum | nilsf: autotooling, documenting, cleaning, sanatising each piece |
| 15:57.10 | nilsf | mallum: Do you have the time for this? This might be a choice for GPE-3.0 ... |
| 15:57.38 | mallum | nilsf: its not a question of time, its a question of GPE having a future imho |
| 15:57.50 | amd | mallum, it's a good idea... |
| 15:57.56 | nilsf | mallum: That's a little too dramatic. |
| 15:58.18 | mallum | nilsf: maybe |
| 15:58.59 | mallum | nilsf: maybe not |
| 15:59.02 | koen | or make a dir called 'new' and do what mallum in there |
| 15:59.16 | koen | s/mallum/mallum said/ |
| 15:59.34 | nilsf | OK, can we agree on first try to plan releases a little, have an interim release, make that stable for a new stable GPE release and in that process try to define goals for the next major release after that? |
| 16:00.02 | mallum | nilsf: the project also needs some kind of roadmap, defined goals etc |
| 16:00.15 | mallum | nilsf: like who is GPE actually for ? |
| 16:00.31 | nilsf | mallum: That would be nice, yes. But from experience this cannot be made out of thin air. |
| 16:00.52 | koen | that's why we must start planning it now |
| 16:00.56 | nilsf | mallum: While in the process of making releases this roadmap will for sure become very clear automatically. |
| 16:01.08 | mallum | nilsf: but who is GPE for ? |
| 16:01.21 | nilsf | mallum: All kinds of portable devices? |
| 16:01.30 | koen | nilsf: who, not what |
| 16:02.00 | mallum | nilsf: is it for Linux geeks or man on the street ( ie user friendly and simple ) |
| 16:02.27 | nilsf | mallum: Well... should that make a difference? |
| 16:02.33 | mallum | nilsf: YES |
| 16:02.40 | mallum | nilsf: a massive difference |
| 16:02.41 | nilsf | mallum: Best would be that both would be satisfied with it! |
| 16:02.50 | mallum | nilsf: well then you will lose |
| 16:03.03 | nilsf | mallum: Why is that? |
| 16:03.05 | mallum | nilsf: you are doubling the amount of work |
| 16:03.12 | mallum | nilsf: to keep geeks and non geeks happy |
| 16:03.26 | nilsf | mallum: But Gnoem is doing a good job here... why shoudn't we? |
| 16:03.38 | mallum | nilsf: GNOME aims at users not geeks |
| 16:03.54 | nilsf | mallum: But the guys you call geeks also use it! |
| 16:04.23 | nilsf | mallum: Argued that way then GPE is more for users... |
| 16:04.29 | nilsf | I guess... |
| 16:06.11 | mallum | nilsf: if its for users you should make fixing cut and paste a priority |
| 16:06.48 | nilsf | mallum: Oh yes, that really prevents us from thinking about release management and future features, indeed... |
| 16:07.20 | koen | could you have a look at http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/pda/files/GPE-plan.txt |
| 16:07.34 | koen | before we go nitpicking in little things? |
| 16:07.43 | amd | btw, a few weeks ago I created some ebuilds (Gentoo package management..) for Matchbox and wanted to move on to Gpe... |
| 16:07.45 | koen | s/in/on/ |
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| 16:08.08 | koen | hey Cwiiis[uni] |
| 16:08.09 | amd | ...but the missing autoconfigure tools made things quite impossible for me.. |
| 16:08.34 | mallum | amd: yep, this has happerned to many people, original oe packagers, garnome etc etc |
| 16:09.01 | amd | so basically I dumped my idea for now.. :P |
| 16:09.10 | mallum | amd: and who could blame you |
| 16:09.21 | Cwiiis[uni] | hey koen - did you have any luck compiling minimo btw? |
| 16:09.32 | koen | Cwiiis[uni]: still typing reports in XP..... |
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| 16:09.46 | amd | well actually myself, because it's still an Open Source project :P |
| 16:09.46 | nilsf | koen: This plan is indeed true, yes. What I am concerned about is the way to achieve this. From experience it will work if two or three people define this because they think it is necessary. |
| 16:09.49 | Cwiiis[uni] | koen: ? |
| 16:09.57 | koen | Cwiiis[uni]: on my OE box |
| 16:10.07 | nilsf | koen: It is an opensource project which tends to evolve evolutionary. |
| 16:10.35 | mallum | nilsf: or whilt and die |
| 16:10.39 | nilsf | koen: That's why I would like to start to define releases which are small steps and then define features, APIs and such step by step, release by release. |
| 16:10.52 | nilsf | mallum: That is possible, yes. |
| 16:11.03 | nilsf | mallum: But ATM it does not look like that. |
| 16:11.05 | mallum | nilsf: and that would be a shame |
| 16:11.13 | mallum | nilsf: not to you at least |
| 16:11.14 | nilsf | mallum: Indeed. |
| 16:11.35 | nilsf | mallum: Hm? Not to me? |
| 16:11.58 | mallum | nilsf: you dont seem to see there is any kind of problem |
| 16:12.11 | nilsf | mallum: That's simply not true! |
| 16:12.24 | nilsf | mallum: I absolutely see the problems. |
| 16:12.50 | nilsf | mallum: But I also see the way it developed into the state it is and quite well know the people doing most of the current work. |
| 16:13.14 | nilsf | mallum: And I also know that those people will not stick to any nice plan you or anyone else will draw up. |
| 16:13.36 | nilsf | mallum: They have to motivated to do such and this cannot be done by simply defining it or constantly comlaining about it. |
| 16:14.08 | mallum | nilsf: but there are no new developers |
| 16:14.18 | mallum | nilsf: there are less developers than a couple of years ago |
| 16:14.21 | amd | well.. add some bounties... |
| 16:14.35 | amd | :D |
| 16:14.39 | nilsf | mallum: But it matters the same for the "old" ones... |
| 16:15.28 | nilsf | mallum: Wake up ... the problems are obvious but the motivation and time to do the work is limited. And you cannot control those developers in a way you run a business. |
| 16:15.35 | Cwiiis[uni] | I don't mind sticking to some nice plan that someone draws up :) |
| 16:16.12 | mallum | koen|kitchen: I think you should add to your list something about people having specific responsabilitys in gpe |
| 16:16.21 | amd | well.. what about first add autoconf support for basic libs and define it as a base platform... |
| 16:16.35 | nilsf | Cwiiis: Surely not and many others won't. But making up that nice plan reuqires in interest of all developers in it. |
| 16:16.40 | mallum | nilsf: I have been banging on about these problems for years ... |
| 16:16.57 | nilsf | mallum: Why havn't you fixed them? |
| 16:17.00 | koen|kitchen | amd: if gentoo can't handle plain makefiles, portage is broken, IMO |
| 16:17.09 | mallum | nilsf: why should I, its not my project |
| 16:17.26 | koen|kitchen | amd: The gpe build is a pain, no doubt about that |
| 16:17.33 | nilsf | mallum: Then please stop complaining. |
| 16:17.33 | mallum | koen|kitchen: thats not the issue. it probably can - but its likely a lot more effort to make it do so |
| 16:17.49 | amd | koen|kitchen, yup, and I didn't want to volunteer to accept this pain :P |
| 16:17.58 | amd | but it would be doable |
| 16:18.06 | mallum | koen|kitchen: if the developers havn't made to effort to make software in a developer friendly way - why should a packager put the extra effort required in ? |
| 16:18.35 | nilsf | mallum: Your comlaint is heard and understood and unless you do not want to fix it there is no use in constantly annoy others with it. |
| 16:19.05 | mallum | nilsf: lol |
| 16:19.06 | nilsf | mallum: Put it on a list, make that list publicly available and evenbtually someone will pick it up and do what you like. |
| 16:19.35 | mallum | nilsf: I will help out and do stuff, but first I need some kind of plan |
| 16:19.41 | mallum | nilsf: you dont want to provide that |
| 16:20.22 | nilsf | mallum: I preesnted my plan already. I'd first like to fix the structure of the whole project, i.e. getting the software development process strcutured and fixed. |
| 16:20.22 | mallum | nilsf: I dont want to put effort in and see it wasted because you and florian dont understand autotools, only care about gpe 'looking pretty' and dont want new developers |
| 16:20.36 | nilsf | mallum: THEN we can talk about future plans of features and fixes. |
| 16:21.03 | nilsf | One step after the other... |
| 16:21.28 | mallum | nilsf: your plan did not address any problems |
| 16:21.39 | nilsf | mallum: Then you did not read it. |
| 16:21.48 | mallum | nilsf: you said your self the plan is just to make gpe presentable to potential vendors |
| 16:21.50 | nilsf | mallum: None o fthe problem you see maybe. |
| 16:22.04 | nilsf | mallum: Not only, darn, listen please. |
| 16:22.31 | nilsf | mallum: Planning the software process can be done fast and without much effort. |
| 16:22.45 | nilsf | mallum: The resulting roadmap and future plan can also be done withou much effort. |
| 16:22.55 | nilsf | mallum: That gives GPE a present state and a future. |
| 16:23.23 | nilsf | mallum: And then we can move on and change architecture, development style in term of used tools, fix other things... |
| 16:23.45 | mallum | nilsf: you have a timescale for this ? |
| 16:23.47 | nilsf | mallum: And we can have this on a release basis, say that GPE3.1 will be autotooled, mnaybe. |
| 16:23.55 | nilsf | mallum: Of course not! How could I? |
| 16:24.15 | mallum | nilsf: why 'maybe' ? |
| 16:24.33 | mallum | nilsf: why can you not just say gpe 3.0 will be entirely autotooled ? |
| 16:24.46 | mallum | nilsf: documented |
| 16:24.47 | nilsf | mallum: Because this is not decided by me and we have to consult with all other developers that are affected by such a decsision. |
| 16:25.00 | mallum | nilsf: well post to the mailing list then |
| 16:25.12 | mallum | nilsf: there are only 2 other gpe developers |
| 16:25.19 | nilsf | mallum: If it turns out that noone will have time to spend for that effort then we are forced to drop it. |
| 16:25.29 | mallum | nilsf: one is beside you and the other has just posted to gpe list saying yes to autotools |
| 16:25.57 | nilsf | mallum: Who is that "other" one? Luc? Phil? |
| 16:26.13 | mallum | nilsf: phil |
| 16:26.14 | nilsf | (just to mention some of the other "two" :) |
| 16:26.26 | nilsf | mallum: Fine then! |
| 16:26.38 | nilsf | mallum: So where is the big deal about it? |
| 16:26.52 | mallum | nilsf: what does luc hack on ? |
| 16:27.01 | nilsf | mallum: gpe-sketchbook |
| 16:27.11 | mallum | nilsf: ok |
| 16:27.24 | nilsf | mallum: Could you provide a autotool tenplate project? |
| 16:27.48 | mallum | nilsf: sure http://svn.o-hand.com/view/matchbox/trunk/ |
| 16:28.00 | nilsf | mallum: I.e. an almost empty autotooled *GPE* application? |
| 16:28.08 | mallum | nilsf: oh come on, its easy |
| 16:28.26 | mallum | nilsf: I cant reverse engineer all the crazy makefile stuff in gpe |
| 16:28.31 | nilsf | mallum: Oh come on, if it is, whey not donate it? |
| 16:28.34 | mallum | nilsf: the po stuff mainly |
| 16:28.52 | nilsf | mallum: A *new* empty GPE project. Not reverse doing an existing one. |
| 16:29.05 | mallum | nilsf: reenoo is doing that already |
| 16:29.05 | nilsf | mallum: A simple thin, like hello world stuff. |
| 16:29.27 | nilsf | mallum: Ah, reeno the forth of the two others ;) |
| 16:29.48 | nilsf | mallum: Fine! |
| 16:29.49 | mallum | nilsf: look at http://svn.o-hand.com there is lots of examples there |
| 16:30.21 | nilsf | mallum: I am not interested in *some* exmaples of *some* code. Just a single GPE sample app. |
| 16:30.38 | mallum | nilsf: there are examples already in gpe cvs |
| 16:30.42 | nilsf | mallum: If reeno does it, perfect. |
| 16:30.59 | nilsf | mallum: AFAIK no app. |
| 16:31.15 | mallum | nilsf: to quote pb on ml; |
| 16:31.19 | amd | gpe/base/gpe-alarm |
| 16:31.23 | mallum | "several GPE |
| 16:31.23 | mallum | packages are already using autotools and have been for some time." |
| 16:31.24 | amd | that's autoconfiscated |
| 16:31.52 | nilsf | mallum: OK ;) Even better! |
| 16:32.38 | nilsf | mallum: The we should extract something from there and make that hello world and document that properly as a "getting started" thing... |
| 16:33.05 | mallum | nilsf: sure, or just read the freely available autotools ook |
| 16:33.07 | mallum | book |
| 16:33.30 | nilsf | mallum: What should that be good for? |
| 16:33.45 | koen|kitchen | nilsf: basically we need a 'yes' or 'no' from you on the autotools issue |
| 16:33.52 | nilsf | mallum: This is already available and did not help GPE it seems. |
| 16:34.02 | nilsf | koen|kitchen: From me? |
| 16:34.17 | nilsf | koen|kitchen: Do you really need that type of authority? |
| 16:34.41 | mallum | nilsf: you need to LEAD the project! |
| 16:34.42 | nilsf | koen|kitchen: If so, thene here is my word of wisdom: We will not have autotools for the next stable release. |
| 16:34.54 | mallum | nilsf: someone has to make these decisions |
| 16:35.05 | mallum | nilsf: no one else in gpe has any kind of status |
| 16:35.09 | nilsf | koen|kitchen: The next major release will be 3.0 which will have archtectural changes. |
| 16:35.33 | mallum | nilsf: 3.0 will have autotools ? |
| 16:35.34 | koen|kitchen | nilsf: so it is 'yes, but after 2.8' |
| 16:35.41 | nilsf | But we will have a new official stable relase before 3.0. |
| 16:36.14 | nilsf | koen|kitchen: If you want to nail anything down, then this could be it, yes. But this requires that all developers will really help doing that. |
| 16:36.22 | nilsf | mallum: And that includes you ;) |
| 16:37.08 | nilsf | We should start with GPE-2.7 right away, uneven = developer version. |
| 16:37.11 | mallum | nilsf: I will help out as soon as the project has some more concrete guidelines, structure, roadmap etc |
| 16:37.13 | amd | btw.. libgpewidget uses gob |
| 16:37.28 | mallum | Im sure libgpewidget could be ditched |
| 16:37.39 | nilsf | mallum: That will come with 3.0, OK? |
| 16:37.53 | *** join/#gpe ade|desk (~adavey@194.200.143.249) |
| 16:37.56 | mallum | nilsf: can you post this to the list ? |
| 16:38.04 | nilsf | I also intend to have a faster and better documented release cycle. |
| 16:38.13 | nilsf | mallum: Sure, if you like. |
| 16:38.36 | mallum | nilsf: you are the only person that cares about a release cycle ;) |
| 16:38.46 | nilsf | But not today, Cebit ends in 20 minutes and I guess I will not have time for it tonight - maybe ut don't count on it. |
| 16:39.05 | mallum | nilsf: just post 'GPE 3.0 will use autotools' |
| 16:39.16 | nilsf | mallum: Florian just adds that he also cares. |
| 16:39.33 | mallum | nilsf: you paid him to say that |
| 16:39.35 | mallum | ;) |
| 16:40.16 | nilsf | mallum: Nope... maybe you git me wrong. Those releases are also important for us to focus on what *you* want, a plan for the future. |
| 16:41.15 | mallum | nilsf: I dont quite understand how future releases give a plan for the future but ok |
| 16:41.33 | nilsf | mallum: It helps structuring things. |
| 16:41.46 | nilsf | mallum: It helps to sort things for priority. |
| 16:42.04 | mallum | nilsf: to be honest I think thats crazy |
| 16:42.04 | nilsf | mallum: It helps defining bugs/features as show stoppers or just annoyances. |
| 16:42.15 | nilsf | mallum: What? |
| 16:42.23 | mallum | nilsf: this is more fundamental than fixing bugs |
| 16:42.27 | mallum | nilsf: or adding features |
| 16:43.00 | mallum | nilsf: its more sorting things lower down so in the future doing releases, fixing bugs, adding features is much easier |
| 16:43.18 | mallum | nilsf: and the longer you leave it the harder things are going to be |
| 16:43.33 | mallum | nilsf: case it point, having to redo gpe in oe when its changed to autotools |
| 16:43.36 | nilsf | mallum: What are you talking about? |
| 16:44.00 | nilsf | mallum: Exactly *what* is crazy? |
| 16:44.23 | mallum | nilsf: I dont understand how having a release fixes anything |
| 16:45.04 | nilsf | mallum: It does not actualy fix things but helps a lot. |
| 16:45.40 | nilsf | mallum: Like CVS ... it does not fix anything but helps a lot. |
| 16:46.25 | *** join/#gpe tigrux (~tigrux@charybdis-ext.suse.de) |
| 16:46.53 | nilsf | mallum: Ten minutes left ... any other "rants" ;) |
| 16:47.37 | mallum | nilsf: well the whole UI thing |
| 16:47.59 | nilsf | mallum: OK, but that's for anyther day, please, OK? |
| 16:48.16 | mallum | nilsf: and a decent shared PIM API |
| 16:48.21 | nilsf | mallum: BTW: We'd like to get rid of matchbox window title bar ;) |
| 16:48.36 | mallum | nilsf: -use_titlebar no |
| 16:48.36 | nilsf | mallum: That's indeed needed. Any idea how to do that decently? |
| 16:48.56 | mallum | nilsf: and some standards on what goes in the panel |
| 16:48.58 | nilsf | mallum: Not the desktop, matchbox titlebar on application windows. |
| 16:49.03 | mallum | nilsf: -use_titlebar no |
| 16:49.18 | mallum | nilsf: mb has been able to do that since version 0.1 I think |
| 16:49.25 | nilsf | mallum: ...OK ;) |
| 16:49.49 | nilsf | mallum: We had that crazy idea of probaly exchanging the title bar with a menu ;) |
| 16:50.02 | nilsf | mallum: eight minutes left ;) |
| 16:50.09 | mallum | nilsf: well some discussion on the mailing list about that would be good |
| 16:50.26 | nilsf | mallum: Coward! Move that to the ML, yes yes :)) |
| 16:50.28 | mallum | nilsf: Im for anything that gets rid of the crazed useless toolbar |
| 16:50.34 | koen|food | nilsf: you are going to think about the idea of overhauling the source in the pre 3.0 timeframe? |
| 16:51.13 | nilsf | koen|food: Yes, but timeframe will be hard to think about. Say, in the process of 3.0 this will happen, yes. |
| 16:51.20 | mallum | nilsf: GPE uses matchbox in the most boring way possible |
| 16:51.36 | mallum | nilsf: Im all for gpe using it in a more interesting fashion |
| 16:51.48 | koen|food | nilsf: be carefull not to move everything off to '3.0' |
| 16:51.54 | mallum | nilsf: we need to sort out the panel though |
| 16:52.05 | nilsf | mallum: You dare to write a short mail to the mailinlist explaining better uses of mb a little? |
| 16:52.16 | mallum | nilsf: its all documented on mb site |
| 16:52.22 | mallum | nilsf: *documented* |
| 16:52.46 | koen|food | mallum: but we're lazy geeks who don't read docs |
| 16:52.58 | nilsf | koen|food: Not everything. Again, I want to have a new stable release based on the current tree and not changing too much. Work will be done in 2.7 until having a stable 2.8. |
| 16:53.01 | mallum | koen|food: well I cant do much about that |
| 16:53.15 | nilsf | koen|food: After that we can a major rework and move that to 3.0 |
| 16:53.33 | mallum | nilsf: this is the same excuse always |
| 16:53.42 | koen|food | nilsf: also defining 2.8 in terms of features would be nice too |
| 16:53.46 | mallum | nilsf: something will happen after x.x release but it never does |
| 16:54.07 | mallum | nilsf: I have been moaning about autotools for years |
| 16:54.14 | nilsf | koen|food: Write up what GPE is today and take this as definition? |
| 16:54.42 | nilsf | mallum: I guess I at least never did any promise like this before. |
| 16:55.08 | mallum | nilsf: you've not made any promise here |
| 16:55.17 | nilsf | mallum: Indeed. |
| 16:55.18 | koen|food | nilsf: no, app features |
| 16:55.18 | mallum | nilsf: you wont promise to list at least |
| 16:55.27 | nilsf | mallum: Even not on IRC. |
| 16:56.07 | nilsf | mallum: But now you had my word on the above issues. And from now on you will not hear anything else from me chaninging that plan - at least not until the majority convinces me otherwise. |
| 16:56.27 | nilsf | mallum: Remember the 1.0 release thing? |
| 16:56.34 | mallum | no ? |
| 16:56.38 | nilsf | mallum: We talked about it, pushed it and it cames. |
| 16:56.46 | nilsf | grpfmm... "came" |
| 16:56.57 | nilsf | So, we do the same again now. |
| 16:57.13 | nilsf | Make up the plan and push that through. |
| 16:57.25 | mallum | nilsf: just post to ML |
| 16:57.27 | koen|food | nilsf: features like: syncing works, stuff like that |
| 16:57.39 | nilsf | koen|food: Does it? |
| 16:57.49 | koen|food | nilsf: not quite |
| 16:57.56 | nilsf | koen|food: Exactly. |
| 16:58.09 | nilsf | koen|food: We can't promise things that will take too long to fix. |
| 16:58.20 | koen|food | nilsf: it never hurts to try |
| 16:58.29 | nilsf | koen|food: Even if I'd like to have sync very much I fear it will not make it into the 2.x. |
| 16:58.53 | koen|food | nilsf: it is in allready |
| 16:58.54 | nilsf | koen|food: Yes, but it distracts you from getting something done and ready. |
| 16:59.11 | nilsf | koen|food: Not in mine... what is "in"? |
| 17:00.12 | nilsf | koen|food: Surely we can have a look at it, or someone has to. And this someone has to say if it is realistic to get into 2.x in a short timeframe or not. |
| 17:00.57 | nilsf | OK guys, Cebit is over for today. |
| 17:01.21 | koen|food | nilsf: what is the timeframe? |
| 17:01.30 | nilsf | While having some free beer at a booth party I'll try to think about what to post to the ML... hopyfully you'll see something tonight. |
| 17:01.38 | koen|food | ok |
| 17:01.43 | nilsf | koen|food: For what? The 2.x or 3.0? |
| 17:01.47 | koen|food | 2.x |
| 17:01.54 | koen|food | and 3.0 |
| 17:02.21 | nilsf | koen_: 2.x (2.7 and 2.8) should be pretty close. |
| 17:02.28 | Cwiiis[uni] | wow, very heated discussion today... |
| 17:02.40 | nilsf | koen_: We could move the current base into 2.7 right away. |
| 17:03.07 | nilsf | koen_: We should, for 2.8, also define all dependencies. |
| 17:03.08 | koen_ | nilsf: ok, but syncing is a very hot item for most of our users |
| 17:03.13 | mallum | nilsf: please post some kind of direction to ML |
| 17:03.31 | nilsf | koen_: Yes, oif possible, it would be nice... we have to check for it. |
| 17:03.37 | mallum | nilsf: not just will we make a release, but actual concrete plans and direction |
| 17:03.38 | nilsf | mallum: I'll try... |
| 17:04.14 | nilsf | mallum: Oh well... I thought that would not be necessary, i.e. to dictate a way. But if you all feel that way... |
| 17:04.23 | mallum | nilsf: someone has to |
| 17:04.31 | nilsf | Oh well... |
| 17:04.51 | nilsf | I hope that the others will follow... |
| 17:05.29 | nilsf | OK, guys! |
| 17:05.46 | nilsf | Nice talking and creative thinking. Let's go for it! |
| 17:05.56 | mallum | we'll see ;) |
| 17:05.56 | koen | indeed |
| 17:05.59 | nilsf | CU l8ter! |
| 17:06.02 | *** part/#gpe nilsf (~nils@pD9585DDC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:06.10 | mallum | Ok who wants to fork ? |
| 17:06.12 | mallum | ;) |
| 17:06.21 | koen | there is no spoon |
| 17:06.36 | mallum | there is - nils |
| 17:06.38 | mallum | ;) |
| 17:10.36 | mallum | koen: you should post your list to ML |
| 17:10.43 | mallum | koen: thats being serious |
| 17:11.59 | Cwiiis[uni] | Well, I'm up for helping autotool and sort out gpe - Just depends how my other commitments go |
| 17:25.03 | *** join/#gpe zap_ (~zap@217.170.93.196) |
| 17:35.06 | koen | mallum: mail sent |
| 17:35.16 | mallum | koen: nice one |
| 17:38.04 | koen | let's hope the gpe list is more responsive than the familiar-dev list |
| 17:39.44 | koen | the next item on my list is to sync opie and gpe release schedules |
| 17:44.43 | koen | mallum: what do you think of the 'handhelds' moin theme? |
| 17:45.40 | mallum | koen: where should I go to look ? |
| 17:45.57 | koen | http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/ |
| 17:46.22 | koen | select the theme in your userprefs |
| 17:46.38 | mallum | I dunno I hate moin |
| 17:46.44 | mallum | always looks ugly |
| 17:46.45 | koen | heh |
| 17:46.49 | mallum | :/ |
| 17:46.50 | mallum | sorry |
| 17:47.55 | koen | yeah, moin isn't real css friendly |
| 17:48.35 | mallum | when compared to something like mediawiki |
| 17:48.49 | mallum | I dunno why fd.o uses moin too |
| 17:49.22 | koen | mediawiki is nice, but I'm not really into wikis |
| 17:49.54 | mallum | mediawiki is nice in that it dont look like a wiki |
| 17:51.11 | koen | that's a big plus |
| 17:52.22 | mallum | yeah |
| 17:52.26 | koen | mallum: paul and I are trying to do something like that in moin too |
| 17:52.58 | koen | changing wiki's again isn't an option |
| 17:53.38 | mallum | just changing the font to something sans would make it look better imho |
| 17:54.19 | koen | you're looking at the handhelds theme now? |
| 17:54.42 | mallum | Im just looking at http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/GPEProject |
| 18:02.28 | koen | mallum: do you think it looks better than plain moin? |
| 18:02.54 | mallum | koen: I dunno, I cant seem to log in to set theme |
| 18:03.51 | koen | mallum: hit reload |
| 18:04.27 | mallum | koen: yeah looks much better :) |
| 18:05.18 | koen | it needs some more tweaking |
| 18:05.41 | koen | but it's a start |
| 18:07.23 | koen | I'm wondering what will happen at guadec |
| 18:09.40 | *** join/#gpe marc__ (~robert@stju.kataplop.net) |
| 18:10.46 | koen | hey marc__ |
| 18:10.51 | marc__ | hey koen |
| 18:13.48 | koen | mallum: how do you think about gnome adoption for gpe? |
| 18:14.25 | *** join/#gpe Hallski (~micke@h80n3fls303o1035.telia.com) |
| 18:14.33 | koen | hey Hallski |
| 18:15.34 | mallum | koen: I dont think that will happen with the current state of things |
| 18:16.09 | koen | me too, but about the general idea? |
| 18:17.10 | mallum | koen: I think Nils is doing a talk, or put forward a talk |
| 18:17.26 | Hallski | what's up with the gpe mailinglist archive? |
| 18:17.47 | koen | it's broken |
| 18:18.04 | koen | and australian law prohibits hh.org from regenerating it |
| 18:18.19 | mallum | koen: does gmane archive it ? |
| 18:18.26 | koen | since the previous admin edited the archives by hand |
| 18:18.30 | koen | mallum: I think so |
| 18:18.57 | mallum | koen: I cant seem to get recent archives from gmane |
| 18:19.20 | Hallski | koen, "<koen> and australian law prohibits hh.org from regenerating it" |
| 18:19.22 | Hallski | huh? |
| 18:21.12 | koen | Hallski: someone asked to remove his postings from the archives |
| 18:21.27 | koen | and the admin edited the .html... |
| 18:21.48 | Hallski | ok? |
| 18:22.08 | Hallski | and removed everyones posts from the archive? |
| 18:22.19 | koen | no the right posts |
| 18:23.02 | koen | but the archives can't be regenerated, because they will include those postings |
| 18:23.09 | Hallski | so? |
| 18:23.13 | Hallski | just remove them again? |
| 18:23.17 | koen | yeah |
| 18:23.23 | Hallski | what does that have to do with australian law? |
| 18:23.49 | koen | the person who asked to remove them was waving with that law |
| 18:24.20 | koen | the problem also goes away when hh.org blocks packets from .au |
| 18:24.32 | Hallski | but then there shouldn't be a problem to regenerate the archive and just manually remove the assholes posts again? |
| 18:24.39 | koen | correct |
| 18:24.49 | koen | just need to motivate the admin to do that |
| 18:25.09 | Hallski | but no new posts get to the arvhive either? |
| 18:25.09 | Hallski | ' |
| 18:25.19 | Hallski | since there are no posts since november in it |
| 18:25.32 | marc__ | are hh.org related to australian? |
| 18:25.45 | koen | hh.org switched to hypermail after the crash |
| 18:25.51 | koen | no mail is lost |
| 18:30.58 | koen | marc__: not really, but legal stuff is always nasty |
| 18:32.10 | marc__ | :/ |
| 18:32.34 | marc__ | did the guy gave it credit card pin code on the mailing to make such a mess? ;) |
| 18:32.48 | koen | don't know |
| 18:35.05 | marc__ | koen: in your previous mail about vlc, you said you had some problem when you give --enable-tremor |
| 18:35.12 | koen | yes |
| 18:35.15 | marc__ | I have no problem with it |
| 18:35.44 | marc__ | you want me to try this on current oe or on fam081 tree? |
| 18:35.53 | koen | current OE tree |
| 18:36.16 | marc__ | ok, so, I disabled gnutls, then it compiles without a problem |
| 18:37.54 | koen | gnutls works with the current tree |
| 18:39.01 | marc__ | there must be a problem somewhere... i pulled a new oe tree yesterday, ran bitbake, and configure script for vlc complains that there is no gnutls... I will try to find why... |
| 18:39.45 | koen | is gnutls in DEPENDS? |
| 18:39.56 | koen | you might need to rm your TMPDIR |
| 18:39.57 | marc__ | oui |
| 18:40.05 | marc__ | yes sorry |
| 18:57.55 | Somez | is balsa a useful e-mail client for gpe, or it's too big because it's a gnome app? |
| 19:05.57 | Somez | who can give me some info about how to redesig the gui of a gpe app?û |
| 19:06.47 | koen | Somez: if it uses libglade, all you need is to edit the xml files |
| 19:06.55 | koen | otherwise you'll have to edit the source |
| 19:07.08 | Somez | koen: and how can I determine wether it uses libglade or something else? |
| 19:07.18 | koen | check the source |
| 19:07.22 | koen | or ask the gaim people |
| 19:07.43 | Somez | ok, and If it uses libglade and I did the modifications, is it hard to make a package from it? |
| 19:08.09 | *** join/#gpe vext01 (~edd@81-179-79-27.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 19:08.10 | vext01 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:08.11 | vext01 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:08.46 | koen | vext01: that's an openzaurus problem |
| 19:09.01 | koen | Somez: not really |
| 19:09.12 | Somez | koen: ok thanks |
| 19:09.41 | Somez | koen: I want to redesign gaim, but I need some infos about gpe apps... |
| 19:10.04 | vext01 | they said to ask here ;) |
| 19:10.12 | Somez | actually I want to know wether a gpe app is redesigned to apply for the pda screen, or there are apps that haven't been modified... |
| 19:10.33 | koen | vext01: it's a know OZ problem, so the OZ people should know what to do about it |
| 19:10.45 | vext01 | k |
| 19:10.55 | *** part/#gpe vext01 (~edd@81-179-79-27.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 19:12.16 | koen | Somez: a gpe apps is designed for a small screen from the ground up |
| 19:12.29 | Somez | koen: and what about gaim? |
| 19:12.36 | koen | gaim isn't a gpe app |
| 19:12.43 | Somez | understand |
| 19:12.49 | Somez | so you can run X apps without any modification? |
| 19:12.55 | koen | yes |
| 19:13.04 | Somez | but you'll have problems with the screen of course |
| 19:13.09 | koen | yes |
| 19:13.09 | Somez | gaim is one of these... |
| 19:13.13 | koen | correct |
| 19:13.17 | Somez | hmm |
| 19:13.31 | Somez | It would be a good thing If gaim can be redesigned to fit the screnn |
| 19:13.33 | Somez | screen |
| 19:13.34 | koen | someone needs to remove/rearrange stuff in the gaim gui |
| 19:14.02 | Somez | koen: how can I query wether is a package installed or not? |
| 19:14.06 | Somez | ipkg query? |
| 19:14.11 | Somez | or is there something like that? |
| 19:14.16 | koen | ipkg list_installed |
| 19:14.19 | Somez | ok thanks |
| 19:15.19 | Somez | koen: and how can I find out how much space an app is using from the flash? |
| 19:15.44 | koen | don't know that |
| 19:15.46 | Somez | ok |
| 19:15.47 | Somez | :-) |
| 19:16.07 | Somez | actually I still can't remove gaim :-( |
| 19:16.22 | Somez | pigi asked me to post this bug on bugzilla |
| 19:16.34 | Somez | and after that he checked the bug |
| 19:16.43 | Somez | but he said he could remove ncurses -recursive... |
| 19:16.52 | Somez | so this bug maybe in gaim package |
| 19:16.59 | koen | try using -force-depends |
| 19:17.24 | Somez | ok I will |
| 19:17.55 | Somez | koen: can I use the latest gaim source to redesign the gui? |
| 19:18.07 | koen | I guess so |
| 19:18.15 | Somez | or I must use the one wich is the basement of the gaim ipk package? |
| 19:18.28 | koen | you can use xnest or xoo on your desktop to test the gui |
| 19:18.44 | Somez | is there any documentation about that? |
| 19:18.53 | koen | about? |
| 19:19.02 | Somez | about xnest or xoo :-) |
| 19:19.07 | Somez | how to install,/use |
| 19:19.10 | koen | check the websites |
| 19:19.17 | Somez | ok |
| 19:19.27 | Somez | wich one is better? |
| 19:19.29 | Somez | :-9 |
| 19:20.01 | koen | xoo is just a wrapper around xnest |
| 19:20.03 | koen | http://projects.o-hand.com/xoo/ |
| 19:39.29 | Somez | koen: mallum won't answer me, have you ever tried to use Xnest + Xoo? |
| 19:40.38 | koen | won't answer you? |
| 19:40.43 | Somez | he's here now |
| 19:40.51 | mallum | was afk |
| 19:40.53 | mallum | so sorry |
| 19:40.59 | koen | eating? |
| 19:41.07 | Somez | no problem :-) |
| 19:41.48 | mallum | cooking |
| 19:41.52 | mallum | gotta get back to it |
| 19:42.11 | mallum | somez export DISPLAY=:1 , then launch xapp |
| 19:42.27 | Somez | mallum: ok, I try it |
| 19:42.40 | Somez | mallum do this on my linux pc? |
| 19:43.10 | mallum | Somez: yeah |
| 19:43.19 | mallum | Somez: its not a full device emulator |
| 19:43.23 | Somez | ok |
| 19:43.26 | Somez | understand |
| 19:45.24 | Somez | oh damn, I can't write = character in rxvt :-( |
| 19:48.13 | Somez | this is insane :-((( |
| 19:48.22 | Somez | I can' write a fucking "=" in rxvt :-( |
| 19:48.43 | koen | correct |
| 19:48.48 | koen | that's a rxvt bug |
| 19:49.04 | Somez | I know, I reported it on the mailing list... |
| 19:51.54 | Somez | koen: how can I workout this bug? |
| 19:52.03 | koen | if I knew.... |
| 19:52.11 | Somez | :-((((((((( |
| 19:52.16 | Somez | I can't believe it :-( |
| 19:52.39 | marc__ | i can |
| 19:52.41 | marc__ | (believe) |
| 19:52.47 | Somez | :-) |
| 19:52.50 | Somez | that's not funny :-) |
| 19:54.08 | *** join/#gpe aboeglin (~aboeglin@213.154.79.4) |
| 19:57.01 | Somez | I've made a shell script for this |
| 19:57.14 | Somez | but it says cannot open display :-( |
| 19:57.43 | marc__ | this is a sad day for you |
| 19:57.44 | Somez | #!/bin/sh |
| 19:57.51 | Somez | export DISPLAY=:1 |
| 19:57.54 | Somez | gpe-irc |
| 19:57.58 | Somez | it looks like this |
| 19:58.06 | Somez | is it wrong? |
| 19:58.20 | marc__ | dunno |
| 19:58.24 | Somez | :-) |
| 19:58.30 | Somez | maybe koen knows the answer |
| 19:59.10 | koen | Somez: try doing 'DISPLAY=:1 gpe-irc' |
| 19:59.15 | Somez | ok :-) |
| 19:59.23 | koen | Somez: you are doing this on your computer, right? |
| 19:59.36 | Somez | ?? on the ipaq |
| 19:59.42 | koen | that won't work |
| 20:00.12 | Somez | why? |
| 20:00.21 | Somez | I want to tell the app to run using display1 |
| 20:00.35 | Somez | gpe-irc is on my ipaq not on my pc |
| 20:00.46 | koen | is there an xserver running on :1 on your ipaq? |
| 20:01.34 | Somez | how can I determine that? :-) |
| 20:01.41 | Somez | I'm just following what mallus told me |
| 20:01.58 | koen | 20:42 < Somez> mallum do this on my linux pc? |
| 20:01.58 | koen | 20:43 < mallum> Somez: yeah |
| 20:02.07 | Somez | hmm |
| 20:02.10 | Somez | misunderstood him... |
| 20:02.18 | marc__ | you can turn off the iPaq ;) |
| 20:02.20 | koen | I don't see 'ipaq' in that sentence |
| 20:02.46 | Somez | ok, I did the export on the pc |
| 20:03.12 | Somez | hmm Xoo says cannot open display |
| 20:04.35 | Somez | how can I determine wich number of X server is running on my ipaq? |
| 20:04.39 | Somez | or do I need that? |
| 20:05.45 | Somez | maybe I must activate Xnest for 1 |
| 20:05.48 | Somez | display 0 |
| 20:05.49 | Somez | display 1 |
| 20:05.54 | marc__ | dunno |
| 20:05.57 | Somez | it's currently activated for display 0 |
| 20:06.44 | koen | ehm |
| 20:06.56 | koen | you do know something about X, right? |
| 20:07.04 | Somez | koen: no :-) |
| 20:07.07 | koen | aha |
| 20:07.14 | koen | Xoo starts xnest |
| 20:07.16 | Somez | that's why I'm keep asking |
| 20:07.21 | koen | xnest opens :1 |
| 20:07.35 | koen | :0 is your normal xserver |
| 20:07.44 | Somez | I figured out that :-) |
| 20:08.15 | koen | xnest runs as an extra xserver |
| 20:08.19 | Somez | koen: but Xoo won't start display :1 :-( |
| 20:08.32 | Somez | I do a export DISPLAY=:1 |
| 20:08.40 | koen | where do you do that? |
| 20:08.46 | Somez | on my pc... |
| 20:08.50 | Somez | as root |
| 20:09.01 | marc__ | koen: how do you test apps when you use current oe? I can't install on my fam081 as too much softs would need an update. Do I need to generate a gpe-image and flash my ipaq for that? |
| 20:09.16 | koen | marc__: that's what I do |
| 20:09.32 | koen | Somez: so you start Xoo first? |
| 20:09.38 | Somez | koen: no |
| 20:09.46 | koen | why not? |
| 20:09.47 | Somez | I do a export DISPLAY=:1 first |
| 20:09.57 | Somez | and I start Xoo after that... |
| 20:10.05 | koen | that doesn't work |
| 20:10.12 | Somez | ok |
| 20:10.35 | koen | xoo creates :1 |
| 20:10.42 | Somez | ok, I started Xoo |
| 20:10.58 | Somez | and after that I did a export DISPLAY=:1 in another root terminal |
| 20:11.02 | marc__ | koen: ok thanks. I'll try that |
| 20:11.11 | koen | aargh |
| 20:11.15 | koen | no need to be root |
| 20:11.18 | koen | root=bad |
| 20:11.26 | Somez | I thought I need it :-) |
| 20:11.35 | koen | that's the opie slogan |
| 20:12.06 | Somez | what opie slogan? |
| 20:12.41 | Somez | it's still not working |
| 20:12.44 | Somez | started Xoo |
| 20:12.56 | Somez | and after that did a export DISPLAY=:1 |
| 20:13.14 | Somez | but nothing happens in Xoo... |
| 20:13.55 | Somez | koen: you said that Xoo will start Xnest on :1.. |
| 20:14.15 | Somez | I checked it and Xnest says |
| 20:14.15 | Somez | Fatal server error: |
| 20:14.16 | Somez | Server is already active for display 0 |
| 20:14.16 | Somez | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:14.16 | Somez | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:14.36 | marc__ | maybe you need to tell him to start on :1 |
| 20:14.48 | Somez | yeah I think so :-) |
| 20:14.57 | koen | xoo should take care of that |
| 20:15.03 | Somez | but it's not :-( |
| 20:15.06 | koen | where did you get that error message? |
| 20:15.22 | Somez | on my pc |
| 20:15.30 | koen | I know that |
| 20:15.32 | Somez | Xnest and Xoo can't be started from my ipaq.. |
| 20:15.53 | koen | did you start xnest, or did xoo try that? |
| 20:16.41 | Somez | hmm I deleted that file in /tmp |
| 20:16.48 | Somez | and started the whole procedure again.. |
| 20:16.52 | Somez | and I get this |
| 20:16.56 | koen | YOU DID WHAT? |
| 20:17.00 | Somez | :-))) |
| 20:17.12 | Somez | _XSERVTransSocketINETCreateListener: ...SocketCreateListener() failed |
| 20:17.12 | Somez | _XSERVTransMakeAllCOTSServerListeners: server already running |
| 20:17.12 | Somez | Fatal server error: |
| 20:17.12 | Somez | Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running |
| 20:17.24 | koen | yes, you fucked your xsession |
| 20:17.27 | marc__ | =) |
| 20:17.31 | Somez | maybe :-) |
| 20:17.41 | koen | restart X |
| 20:17.49 | Somez | ok :-) |
| 20:18.13 | marc__ | I hope he knows C/GTK =) |
| 20:18.23 | koen | that isn't to hard |
| 20:18.28 | koen | even I can do gtk |
| 20:18.33 | koen | and I don't know C :) |
| 20:18.48 | koen | glib makes it easy |
| 20:19.15 | *** join/#gpe Somez (~somez@10.97-182-adsl-pool.axelero.hu) |
| 20:19.21 | marc__ | Never did something more complex than a helloworld |
| 20:19.34 | Somez | re |
| 20:19.53 | Somez | so what now? |
| 20:20.16 | koen | start xoo |
| 20:20.27 | Somez | as root? |
| 20:20.30 | Somez | or normal user? |
| 20:20.30 | koen | no |
| 20:20.42 | Somez | If I start as normal user, iut says the following |
| 20:20.51 | Somez | Fatal server error: |
| 20:20.52 | Somez | Could not create server lock file: /tmp/.X1-lock |
| 20:20.52 | Somez | ** (Xoo:2378): WARNING **: Failed to connect to X Server Display. |
| 20:20.52 | Somez | ** (Xoo:2378): WARNING **: 'Xnest :1 -ac -parent 39845984' Did not start correctly. |
| 20:20.52 | Somez | ** (Xoo:2378): WARNING **: Please restart with working --xnest-bin-options, --xnest-bin, options. |
| 20:21.01 | koen | aha |
| 20:21.04 | koen | that old problem |
| 20:21.06 | Somez | and it quits |
| 20:21.09 | koen | ok, start xoo as root |
| 20:21.20 | Somez | ok, it's running |
| 20:21.35 | koen | open up a new terminal |
| 20:21.38 | Somez | yep |
| 20:21.56 | koen | type 'DISPLAY=:1 xterm' |
| 20:22.11 | koen | that should give you an xterm inside xoo |
| 20:22.14 | Somez | command not found :-) |
| 20:22.55 | Somez | there is no xterm command |
| 20:23.19 | koen | bleh |
| 20:23.30 | Somez | I know it's funny :-) |
| 20:23.31 | koen | try any other x based app |
| 20:23.54 | Somez | it's working |
| 20:24.21 | Somez | so how can I apply this for my ipaq? |
| 20:24.52 | Somez | or I simply run the app from my pc... |
| 20:25.01 | marc__ | second choice I think |
| 20:25.25 | Somez | me too :-) |
| 20:25.27 | Somez | thanks koen |
| 20:25.58 | marc__ | would be great to have a nice gaim |
| 20:26.07 | Somez | yeah I know :-) |
| 20:31.54 | Somez | koen: how can I determine wether gaim uses libglade or not? |
| 20:31.58 | Somez | I get the source... |
| 20:32.33 | koen | check the source |
| 20:32.59 | Somez | that's ok, but what should I look for? |
| 20:33.00 | koen | You now as much as I do about it.... |
| 20:33.06 | Somez | :-(( |
| 20:33.13 | Somez | I know much less than you :-) |
| 20:36.37 | marc__ | koen: do you have a cluster dedicated to compilation or do you spend much of your time waiting for oe to build stuff? |
| 20:40.36 | koen | waiting |
| 20:43.36 | Somez | maybe I must wait for pb_ to arrive and ask him how to modify gaim's gui to fit on the ipaq screen |
| 20:43.58 | *** part/#gpe Hallski (~micke@h80n3fls303o1035.telia.com) |
| 20:49.11 | koen | Somez: or you could ask the gaim people |
| 20:49.26 | Somez | I'm trying that right now :-) |
| 20:51.16 | marc__ | vlc works fine with local file, but network seems to be screwed :/ |
| 20:56.53 | Somez | koen|tv: they say that I must replace the /src/gtk* files in gaim :-( there are 47 of them... |
| 21:02.14 | marc__ | eh eh |
| 21:54.23 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@p5086245A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:54.30 | florian | re |
| 21:54.39 | koen | hey florian |
| 21:57.43 | florian | hi koen |
| 21:58.39 | koen | heh |
| 21:58.41 | koen | same here |
| 22:00.00 | koen | florian: how was the free beer? |
| 22:03.26 | florian | koen: not too bad... but like everywhere you get frre beer it was really crowded. |
| 22:04.26 | loki1228 | does anyone have a fix for the gpe-fetchmaps.pl script since MS bought MapBlast? |
| 22:04.48 | koen | it's ripped from gpsdrive, so might check there |
| 22:04.57 | loki1228 | koen: thanks |
| 22:06.56 | *** join/#gpe molivier (~mac@f06v-5-96.d1.club-internet.fr) |
| 22:13.07 | koen | florian: is nils digesting beer or digesting the gpe-masterplan? |
| 22:16.03 | florian | koen: he went to sleep... we arrived here about half an hour ago and he needs to get up at about 6:30. |
| 22:16.57 | koen | ouch |
| 22:17.29 | florian | yeah... i'm lucky - i can sleep until 7:00 ;-) |
| 22:17.34 | koen | ouch |
| 22:18.18 | florian | need to get some sleep too - good night all |
| 22:18.26 | koen | 'night florian |
| 22:44.41 | koen | 'night all |
| 22:44.49 | Philippe | night |
| 23:12.44 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dctanner@81-86-233-56.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 23:47.47 | *** join/#gpe joshua_ (joshua@cl-303.ams-04.nl.sixxs.net) |