| 00:00.06 | charles | ? |
| 00:00.13 | florian | charles: got this - he knows what he is talking about :-) |
| 00:00.30 | florian | pb_: ok, great... |
| 00:01.19 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.29190.png |
| 00:01.30 | charles | do i need the second sh? |
| 00:01.32 | treke | purty shadow |
| 00:02.18 | *** part/#gpe sabrewulf (mason@fennec.stairclub.com) |
| 00:02.23 | *** join/#gpe sabrewulf (mason@fennec.stairclub.com) |
| 00:02.57 | charles | so do i boot now or what? |
| 00:02.57 | florian | charles: looks so - it i ssome time ago i did this |
| 00:04.30 | florian | charles: yep - "boot" |
| 00:04.54 | charles | okay so it's sitting at this "uncompressing linux................. done, booting the kernel." line |
| 00:05.15 | pb_ | bbl |
| 00:05.21 | florian | pb_: cu later |
| 00:06.09 | florian | Is it possible to create a menu item that is insensitive per default? |
| 00:06.37 | charles | are you asking me? |
| 00:07.01 | florian | charles: not directly - but if you know ...:-) |
| 00:07.29 | florian | charles: what does your ipaq? |
| 00:09.03 | charles | so i just got to the normal login |
| 00:09.31 | charles | actually... it froze so i reset it... then params went back to what they were, so i got back to the normal login |
| 00:10.31 | florian | charles: ok, something was wrong... looks like there was the wrong console :-/ but why? |
| 00:11.14 | charles | then i get all kinds of crazy output and a kernel panic without the seoncd "sh" |
| 00:11.57 | florian | charles: maybe something is wrong parsing the line - make the console the first parameter and init the last... |
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| 00:12.36 | florian | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:13.07 | charles | okay |
| 00:13.14 | charles | then 'boot' ? |
| 00:13.25 | florian | yep |
| 00:13.46 | charles | nope |
| 00:13.53 | florian | charles: What happens? |
| 00:14.11 | charles | still sitting at the line "uncompressing...done,booting the kernel" |
| 00:15.01 | charles | ipaq only shows penguin |
| 00:15.15 | florian | charles: ok, try this line - found in an old mail: |
| 00:15.21 | florian | "set linuxargs noinitrd root=/dev/mtdblock1 init=/bin/sh sh" |
| 00:17.25 | charles | "can't access tty job control turned off" |
| 00:17.33 | charles | screen was so dark i couldn't read the text, sorry about that |
| 00:17.54 | florian | grr... |
| 00:18.06 | florian | hmm- |
| 00:18.45 | mallum | florian: do you get odd mystery windows appearing in 'active tasks' ? |
| 00:19.48 | florian | mallum: I had this with the last version, but at the moment i don't have trouble with this. |
| 00:20.11 | mallum | florian: I cant figure out what the mystery window is |
| 00:20.25 | florian | mallum: still suffering from this? |
| 00:20.39 | mallum | florian: I can emulate it on my desktop |
| 00:20.40 | mallum | florian: yeah I saw it the other day |
| 00:20.45 | mallum | s/can/cant/ |
| 00:21.51 | florian | charles: ok, looks like you need to set a tty though... |
| 00:22.24 | charles | so i tried adding /dev/ttySA0 onto the end of the same command... and i get the black screen again |
| 00:22.36 | charles | what's going on? |
| 00:23.14 | florian | charles: for some reason something wents wrong accessing serial console. |
| 00:24.07 | charles | howcome it works normally though? |
| 00:25.10 | florian | charles: that's an interesting question, maybe try what happens if you try this: |
| 00:25.31 | florian | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:25.51 | florian | or very maybe "noinitrd console=ttySA0 root=/dev/mtdblock1 init=/bin/sh" |
| 00:27.21 | charles | ah okay |
| 00:27.29 | charles | so i'm in |
| 00:28.23 | charles | i executed passwd and rebooted... |
| 00:28.42 | florian | great - which one worked? |
| 00:29.01 | charles | the extra sh, perhaps this should be posted somewhere? |
| 00:29.35 | florian | ok - so "noinitrd console=ttySA0 root=/dev/mtdblock1 init=/bin/sh" worked?! |
| 00:30.19 | charles | with an extra "sh" on the end |
| 00:30.56 | florian | okay - let me see if there is a wiki.... |
| 00:32.57 | charles | okay... setting up this wireless card... |
| 00:33.37 | florian | :-) |
| 00:34.00 | mallum | florian: were staying up all night - sorry |
| 00:34.24 | florian | mallum: eeks! |
| 00:35.22 | mallum | florian: I hardened the active tasks a bit |
| 00:35.37 | florian | mallum: any idea if there is a simple file selector somewhere? i just want to call a function ang get back a file name! |
| 00:36.36 | mallum | florian: :/ |
| 00:37.08 | mallum | florian: we should get someone to write a decent fileselector for gpe and make it api compat with the big one |
| 00:38.13 | florian | mallum: the big one's api is stupid... it uses a callback which is usually not what you want. |
| 00:38.19 | mallum | florian: btw, there is a new bluebox theme if you havn't already noticed |
| 00:38.37 | florian | gchar *ask_user_a_simple_file(); |
| 00:38.42 | mallum | florian: yeah there is the newer one in 2.3 though thats meant to of addressed a lot of issues |
| 00:38.52 | florian | mallum: nope, cool.... |
| 00:39.42 | florian | mallum: the fonts are too large... |
| 00:40.08 | mallum | florian: you can make them smaller by editing the theme.xml |
| 00:40.36 | mallum | florian: just copy /usr/share/themes/bluebox to ~/.themes and you can edit it safely |
| 00:40.44 | florian | mallum: this is not the intention... |
| 00:41.24 | mallum | florian: Im working on figuring out away to change the titlebar font on the fly |
| 00:41.30 | mallum | florian: but its not a priority |
| 00:41.55 | florian | mallum: it might be a good idea to make it the same like the desktop font... |
| 00:42.04 | mallum | florian: the bigger font looks much more clearer and there is plenty of room for it |
| 00:42.20 | mallum | florian: the bluebox font has a shadow too iirc :-) |
| 00:43.05 | florian | mallum: yes, it has - it definitely looks nice! |
| 00:44.12 | mallum | florian: you can do that with any font |
| 00:44.20 | mallum | arg lazy bones ! |
| 00:44.37 | mallum | it is an hour later there though ;-) |
| 00:44.52 | florian | mallum: yeah, but i'll be up at 9 local time :-) |
| 00:45.19 | mallum | okey |
| 00:46.13 | florian | night! |
| 01:08.20 | charles | can anyone here help me setup wireless networking? |
| 01:16.15 | pb_ | possibly, but it depends on what hardware you are using. |
| 01:21.31 | charles | ipaq 3630 and i have a oronico silver, intel 2011 and a netgear ma401 |
| 01:21.50 | charles | i have 3 different pcmcia cards to choose from |
| 01:22.13 | pb_ | I don't know anything about the Intel, but the Orinoco and the Netgear should both work out of the box. |
| 01:22.35 | charles | i shouldn't have to modprobe anything? |
| 01:23.19 | charles | how do i see if the card is recognized by the ipaq? |
| 01:23.21 | pb_ | Nope. |
| 01:23.28 | pb_ | use "cardctl ident", or check logread. |
| 01:24.14 | mallum | pb_: anything interesting at the expo ? |
| 01:24.44 | charles | no product info available on either |
| 01:25.16 | pb_ | Nothing all that exciting, though there were a few cool things. IBM had a PowerPC-based handheld which seemed kind of cute. |
| 01:25.23 | pb_ | Oh, and RedHat were giving away a Boxter. |
| 01:25.53 | pb_ | Microsoft also had a stand there, though I'm not quite sure what they were offering. |
| 01:26.05 | pb_ | charles: ah, that's very sad. What does "cardctl status" say? |
| 01:26.31 | mallum | pb_: oh yeah I heard about rh and the boxter |
| 01:26.54 | mallum | pb_: pity it wasn't a 911 ;-) |
| 01:27.15 | pb_ | Heh. Actually, they were only giving away a 2-year lease, which was a bit of a cheat. |
| 01:27.47 | charles | no card - no card on both... |
| 01:27.55 | charles | i'm guessing this means something hardware is broken |
| 01:28.09 | pb_ | charles: sounds like your sleeve, or its driver, is malfunctioning. |
| 01:30.18 | charles | shit |
| 01:30.40 | pb_ | What sleeve are you using? |
| 01:31.30 | charles | pcmcia |
| 01:32.02 | pb_ | single pcmcia? |
| 01:32.20 | charles | yes |
| 01:32.23 | pb_ | You could try removing and re-fitting the sleeve and see if that helps. |
| 01:32.37 | pb_ | if not, check /proc/bus/sleeve/* and dmesg for clues. |
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| 17:37.50 | *** topic/#gpe is #gpe, not #handhelds.org | GPE: The GPE Palmtop Environment | latest bootstrap images: unstable7 |
| 17:39.39 | florian_kc | okay... :-) |
| 17:40.00 | mallum | florian_kc: got the compositing turning on/off on the fly working |
| 17:40.41 | mallum | florian_kc: so now you can add a 'enable shadows or summin' toggle button to appearance :-) |
| 17:41.06 | florian_kc | mallum: hey great! |
| 17:41.25 | florian_kc | mallum: ok, adding it to my todo. |
| 17:41.46 | mallum | florian_kc: should be easy todo, the key is MATCHBOX/COMPOSITE on|off |
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| 17:45.16 | florian_kc | mallum: ok, great - this shouldn't a challenge :-) |
| 17:46.33 | mallum | florian_kc: it was a lot of pain to get working ( though actual bug for stupid little thing in the end ) |
| 17:49.45 | nilsf | mallum: Is it the composite thing that makes the X server consume ~15% CPU all the time, even being idle? |
| 17:50.10 | mallum | nilsf: yes |
| 17:50.13 | nilsf | mallum: OK, after killing the sys-statmeter it drops down to ~6%, but still beeing idle. |
| 17:50.29 | nilsf | mallum: Grmpf... I think I don't like it anymore ;) |
| 17:50.39 | nilsf | mallum: Why is this? |
| 17:50.42 | mallum | nilsf: why do you think I made it toggleable |
| 17:51.05 | mallum | nilsf: becasue the display hardware on the ipaq is shit |
| 17:51.23 | mallum | nilsf: and theres probably something up in my code ... which I havn't figured out yet |
| 17:51.40 | mallum | nilsf: the newer minisys ( upgrade matchbox-panel ) should use less cpu |
| 17:52.25 | nilsf | mallum: The one with the two seperate bars? That's what took about 6% ... |
| 17:52.35 | mallum | nilsf: hmf ok |
| 17:52.50 | nilsf | mallum: Hmm... strange then. The X server is idle and consumes CPU. Sound quite buggy. |
| 17:53.13 | mallum | nilsf: how can it be idle if its consuming cpu ? |
| 17:53.14 | nilsf | mallum: I can understand that rendering takes more CPU time now. But if nothing's rendered? strange... |
| 17:53.27 | nilsf | mallum: That's what I am concerned about! |
| 17:53.34 | mallum | nilsf: are you running top on the ipaq ? |
| 17:53.49 | nilsf | mallum: I don't see anything that paints to the screen that would require that much CPU, constantly. |
| 17:53.52 | mallum | nilsf: ie on rxvt on ipaq |
| 17:53.54 | nilsf | mallum: Yes. |
| 17:54.03 | nilsf | mallum: No, over serial console... |
| 17:54.04 | mallum | nilsf: well the dipslay is not idle then |
| 17:54.56 | mallum | nilsf: its is very complicated I am trying to figure out the cpu problem now |
| 17:55.12 | nilsf | mallum: Perfect! |
| 17:55.26 | mallum | nilsf: by its very nature it will consume more cpu than a non-composite x though |
| 17:56.29 | mallum | nilsf: the panel apps seem to cause the extra cpu usage, if you remove em it is static |
| 17:56.56 | mallum | nilsf: why do all thease gtk2 apps use so much memory in the X server btw ? |
| 17:57.01 | nilsf | mallum: Yep ... maybe we should be a little more cautious to screen updates. |
| 17:57.18 | nilsf | mallum: This is a very good extra question! Fonts maybe? |
| 17:57.19 | mallum | nilsf: every app consumes at least 400k in the xserver |
| 17:57.28 | mallum | nilsf: nope all pixmaps |
| 17:57.45 | florian_kc | Old X is below 2% CPU load if system is idle.... |
| 17:57.45 | mallum | nilsf: and something like rxvt uses 12k |
| 17:58.11 | mallum | nilsf: now go fix it !! |
| 17:58.14 | mallum | ;-) |
| 17:58.25 | treke | fix it? |
| 17:58.32 | florian_kc | oh... 8% |
| 17:59.17 | mallum | treke: I think gtk ( and qt ) cache pixmap representations of them selves to resize smoother |
| 17:59.24 | nilsf | mallum: Wow... for pixmaps? Oh well ... I think there is some debugging to do... |
| 17:59.43 | mallum | treke, nilsf: as apps never really resize on handheld we dont need this |
| 18:00.01 | treke | interesting |
| 18:00.18 | mallum | nilsf: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/xrestop will help you discover all sorts of stuff |
| 18:00.36 | mallum | nilsf: but I really think it would be worth removing this caching from gtk if its possible |
| 18:00.52 | mallum | nilsf: and Im correct about the pixmaps being used for that |
| 18:03.09 | nilsf | mallum: Makes sense. |
| 18:03.10 | florian_kc | mallum: iirc you can do this at least widget per widget... manually :-) |
| 18:03.20 | nilsf | mallum: Can this be done "easily"? |
| 18:03.29 | mallum | nilsf: I dunno, hopefully :-) |
| 18:03.56 | mallum | could save potentially massive amounts of memory usage though |
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| 18:06.11 | eaon | since nobody answers to my questions in #handhelds.org (i think i should give up to try to ask something there) - do you support compact flash bluetooth cards? |
| 18:06.55 | nilsf | eaon: Partially. Which one is on your mind? |
| 18:08.00 | eaon | i don't care as long as one *works* :) |
| 18:08.00 | mallum | nilsf: its seems only the parts of the display are getting updated that need updateing |
| 18:08.09 | eaon | nilsf: which one do you support? |
| 18:08.15 | mallum | nilsf: maybe the increased cpu usage is fp in xrender ... seems much lower on x86 |
| 18:08.38 | nilsf | eaon: For example the Anycom cards work. |
| 18:09.06 | nilsf | eaon: Have a look at the BlueZ homepage and on Marcel Holtmann's page (www.holtmann.org). |
| 18:09.26 | nilsf | mallum: You mean the redraw logic uses this pixmap cache? |
| 18:09.52 | nilsf | mallum: Ah, what about this stroe-under support of the X server!? This can be disabled by commandline :) |
| 18:10.06 | mallum | nilsf: in gtk ? |
| 18:10.31 | mallum | nilsf: afaik we dont use backing store in xserver |
| 18:10.42 | mallum | nilsf: you have to explictly enable it |
| 18:13.01 | mallum | nilsf: also things like a cursor flashing can cause the compositer to do work |
| 18:15.19 | nilsf | mallum: I have disable store-under and backing-store now... can't do any harm anyway ;) |
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| 18:16.46 | nilsf | mallum: There are also options of the X server to limit all kinds of data sizes, like "limit stack space" and "limit data space" ... |
| 18:16.48 | mallum | nilsf: yeah thats not the prolem though |
| 18:17.21 | mallum | nilsf: we've played with all that stuff before ... |
| 18:17.33 | mallum | nilsf: this is different, this is gtk |
| 18:17.35 | nilsf | mallum: And what happened? |
| 18:17.58 | nilsf | mallum: Yes sure, but if gtk cannot store into the server anymore, what happens? Crash or not store? |
| 18:17.59 | mallum | nilsf: basically kdrive itself uses hardly any memory |
| 18:19.02 | mallum | nilsf: thats not the problem, otherwise things like rxvt would use alot more than 12k of pixmaps |
| 18:20.54 | nilsf | mallum: Is there already a package for that freedesktop.org X analyser tool? |
| 18:21.21 | mallum | nilsf: dunno, moray muttered something about make a deb of it |
| 18:21.30 | nilsf | mallum: I now run the X server with limited data space to 500k and it still seems to work ;) |
| 18:21.48 | nilsf | mallum: How did you check the sizes? |
| 18:21.54 | mallum | nilsf: its kind of pointless making an ipkg of it as it more useful running remotely |
| 18:22.05 | mallum | nilsf: does top agree with it being under 500 K ? |
| 18:22.08 | nilsf | mallum: Ah... |
| 18:22.24 | mallum | nilsf: just run like xrestop -d ipaq |
| 18:23.16 | nilsf | mallum: OK, no debian package ... going to fdesktop.org ;) |
| 18:24.50 | nilsf | mallum: Cool! You have written this!? |
| 18:24.53 | mallum | nilsf: hassle moray |
| 18:25.05 | mallum | nilsf: yes! it is a product of mallum |
| 18:27.29 | treke | mallum uses slave labor. boycott mallum |
| 18:27.44 | mallum | pixies under my desk |
| 18:29.15 | nilsf | mallum: You think you could make a digi-cam picture of them? I would love to get them to know... |
| 18:30.12 | mallum | nilsf: there mystical properties will mean they dont show up on any mortal kind of photographic equipment |
| 18:30.41 | treke | smoke this and you will see them also |
| 18:30.43 | nilsf | mallum: ROTFL! |
| 18:30.54 | mallum | hehe |
| 18:31.32 | nilsf | mallum: That's strange, gpe-clock does not show this unusual pxm memory usage though it is a GTK program. |
| 18:35.08 | treke | maybe it's still a gtk 1 app? |
| 18:35.29 | nilsf | treke: Not possible ;) I do not have GTK1 installed. |
| 18:36.58 | mallum | nilsf: gpe-clock in the panel ? |
| 18:38.12 | nilsf | mallum: Yes... |
| 18:38.45 | mallum | nilsf: yes thats why I think its some how related to a cache - the clock is much smaller |
| 18:39.08 | mallum | nilsf: every other application uses approx the same amount |
| 18:39.55 | nilsf | mallum: Yep. Very strange.... One should have a look at gpe-clock and see what makes it different. |
| 18:39.57 | mallum | nilsf: I've never checked it with a gtk1 app |
| 18:40.33 | mallum | nilsf: if that doesn't do it, it may well mean the memory can be saved |
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| 18:44.56 | mallum | nilsf: gdk_window_set_back_pixmap() could be doing it |
| 18:45.09 | mallum | nilsf: it really needs someone that know gtk pretty well |
| 18:53.32 | Nahem0t | someone has problems with gpe-package and libipkg? |
| 18:55.09 | Nahem0t | i get this error: gpe-package: relocation error: /usr/lib/libipkg.so.0: undefined symbol: make_directory |
| 18:56.32 | mallum | ok ppl gonna get some food, ttyl |
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| 19:06.11 | reenoo | hi |
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| 19:42.40 | florian | re |
| 19:52.44 | reenoo | hi florian |
| 21:42.10 | florian | hi reenoo |
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