| 00:00.39 | mallum_ | moray: I dunno. I think its hard with the 'tools' and users we have to do it otherwise |
| 00:01.20 | mallum_ | florian: you may as well make a 64pixel high toolbar then ... |
| 00:01.32 | pb_ | moray: I'm not convinced that it is all that useful. We don't currently have any convenient way to switch from one program to another other than using the titlebar, but one could imagine other solutions for that. |
| 00:02.02 | moray | pb_: on my desktop I only have a top panel; it would be easy to imagine the remaining titlebar functions being absorbed into that |
| 00:02.13 | pb_ | yup |
| 00:02.27 | moray | also note that it's easier on most PDA touchscreens to press at the top of the screen than the bottom |
| 00:02.33 | moray | (just physically) |
| 00:02.40 | florian | that's true |
| 00:02.58 | moray | so it would make more sense to have commonly-used stuff there rather than most of it being insensitive anyway |
| 00:03.05 | florian | mallum_: well, 16 is ok on small displays :-) |
| 00:03.08 | mallum_ | moray: you can run matchbox with no titlebar and the panel at the top. |
| 00:03.44 | moray | mallum_: yup - but could you integrate that with your panel+titlebar thing to have a close button in there somewhere do you think? or would that be confusing? |
| 00:04.48 | moray | Of course, ideally on a PDA users wouldn't have to think about opening and closing programs ;) |
| 00:05.14 | florian | hehe |
| 00:05.48 | mallum_ | moray: yeah you could do it. The problem is when users want to run programs not designed for PDA and they somehow rely on functionality the window decorations give |
| 00:06.03 | Flu-Shot | Does Familar/GPE support WiFi 128b encyrption? I can't seem to find an option for that. |
| 00:06.27 | moray | mallum_: what do programs need apart from close? matchbox doesn't let you do resizing etc. anyway |
| 00:06.58 | moray | mallum_: changing between windows obviously, but that can be possible from a panel/titlebar thing without confusion |
| 00:07.18 | pb_ | Flu-Shot: yes, it should do. I suspect it automatically selects 128-bit encryption if you put in a long enough key. |
| 00:07.50 | Flu-Shot | Trying :) |
| 00:08.59 | pb_ | florian: as I understand it, string keys are also a fixed length. so a 5-character key would be 64 bit, and a 10-character key would be 128 bit. |
| 00:09.22 | florian | AH cool... |
| 00:09.47 | mallum_ | moray: really just closing and switching between apps |
| 00:09.51 | florian | time for some sleep... |
| 00:09.58 | pb_ | florian: night! |
| 00:10.05 | florian | yep, night all! |
| 00:10.11 | mallum_ | moray: dialogs still get decorations of course |
| 00:10.24 | moray | mallum_: yup |
| 00:10.48 | moray | mallum_: still might be worth going for an 'undecorated by default' theme/configuration and seeing how it work |
| 00:10.49 | moray | +s |
| 00:11.15 | mallum_ | moray: how would user switch between apps though ? |
| 00:11.43 | moray | mallum_: can't you have something that (at least) looks like a panel app - think of MacOS |
| 00:12.14 | moray | mallum_: or they just have to go via the main program choosing thing |
| 00:12.32 | mallum_ | moray: yeah that would be pretty easy todo |
| 00:13.12 | mallum_ | moray: you could even make a matchbox theme that had a titlebar but just with the menu button ( no text ) and stick a panel into the rest of the free space |
| 00:13.38 | moray | yeah |
| 00:14.37 | moray | mallum_: and again, for a close button, just having it in a 'tab' thing like your last screenshot might make it obvious what it is, until someone thinks of anything better |
| 00:15.02 | moray | for normal GPE apps it would be good to try to avoid people needing to switch windows manually |
| 00:15.36 | moray | if we did that well enough you could even make them quit automatically without causing problems (which would be sensible, as long as the user's not losing state that way) |
| 00:16.05 | pb_ | Yeah, that would be nice. We do still have a problem with protracted startup delays though, at the moment. |
| 00:16.48 | moray | A mere technical hurdle. ;) |
| 00:16.55 | mallum_ | pb_: how do you mean 'protracted startup delays' ? |
| 00:17.30 | pb_ | mallum_: it often takes a good second or so from the time I launch a program to the time it's usable. |
| 00:18.26 | jg | pb_: just a rebuild with the right flags in fd.o's Xlib. |
| 00:18.33 | pb_ | jg: thanks |
| 00:19.50 | mallum_ | pb_: yeah right. Its actually quite scary how fast pocketpc cant start up most of its apps |
| 00:20.38 | mallum_ | s/cant/can/ |
| 00:20.42 | jg | mallum_: it does execute in place in ROM.... |
| 00:21.05 | mallum_ | jg: good evening btw |
| 00:21.16 | jg | I'm not implying that some profiling isn't in order: I suspect major crocks are likely also lurking. |
| 00:21.18 | mallum_ | jg: I had a cool link to show you ... one sec |
| 00:22.21 | pb_ | jg: right, exactly. Opie have also adopted a similiar policy of keeping their applications RAM-resident all the time for faster startup. |
| 00:23.02 | mallum_ | jg: http://www.eyetap.org/research/medr/rwm.html |
| 00:27.38 | mallum_ | jg: download the videos there if you can, quite impressive. Not sure if they are real or mocked up though |
| 00:35.32 | mallum_ | g'night all |
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| 07:48.28 | {HyGy} | re |
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| 08:35.40 | florian_kc | morning |
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| 08:42.18 | florian_kc | hi robin_ |
| 08:42.36 | robin_ | florian_kc: hello |
| 08:44.44 | {HyGy} | florian_kc |
| 08:46.00 | florian_kc | hi {HyGy} |
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| 10:55.21 | florian_kc | mallum: I founf a strange problem in mbdesktop... at the moment every process i start from it leaves a zombie after it is terminated. |
| 10:55.31 | florian_kc | s/founf/found |
| 10:57.02 | mallum | florian_kc: yeah its fixed in CVS |
| 10:57.16 | florian_kc | mallum: ok, great :-) |
| 10:57.18 | mallum | florian_kc: I tried to be clever about catching zombies and wasn't basically |
| 10:57.28 | mallum | florian_kc: hopefully shiny new mb packages today |
| 10:58.22 | florian_kc | mallum: ok, what a nice idea :-) |
| 10:59.39 | robin_ | i'm running linux-2.6.1 bitkeeper and the pxa driver gives the following error : pxa-fb: probe of pxa-fb0 failed with error 12 |
| 10:59.52 | robin_ | error (-12) |
| 11:00.07 | florian_kc | hmm... |
| 11:00.51 | mallum | tigert: ping, hassle ... hassle ;-) |
| 11:01.05 | florian_kc | robin_: I think most kernel hackers are found at #handhelds.org. :-) |
| 11:05.40 | robin_ | florian_kc: already asked there :) |
| 11:06.45 | florian_kc | robin_: oh yes, seems to be a little bit early for the people in us :-) |
| 11:07.26 | robin_ | florian_kc: yeah that's true |
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| 12:18.19 | mallum | florian_kc: you ever had a problem with your 5xxx where it just seems completely dead |
| 12:18.32 | mallum | florian_kc: reset doesn't seem to do anything |
| 12:20.16 | florian_kc | mallum: Yes, some time ago... iirc i left it without power for >1h, connected external power and reset it. |
| 12:21.19 | mallum | florian_kc: I sent it to sleep last night, just tried to wake it nothing, hitting the reset key plugging in power all nothing |
| 12:21.30 | mallum | florian_kc: Im quite worried now |
| 12:22.13 | florian_kc | mallum: Then do it like for the 38xx: connect external power and reset it. |
| 12:22.29 | mallum | florian_kc: still nothing, even with battery removed still nothing |
| 12:22.40 | florian_kc | mallum: additionally it will refuse to work without battery... |
| 12:22.48 | mallum | florian_kc: unless there is another way to reset it |
| 12:23.10 | mallum | florian_kc: reset via the little pin hole at the bottom right ? |
| 12:24.32 | florian_kc | mallum: yes, that's the usual way... yust try to disconnect it from any power for a while. I had this effect some time ago too and thougtht i'd killed it :-/ |
| 12:25.41 | mallum | florian_kc: okey, its been off power all night |
| 12:25.53 | mallum | florian_kc: I really worried now, this will be my third dead ipaq |
| 12:26.59 | florian_kc | mallum: I think we had some reports about this on ml some time ago... i'm not sure why this happens, but sometimes is seems to be quite hard to make them boot. |
| 12:29.53 | mallum | florian_kc: okey I'll hassle jamey when he shows up |
| 12:32.12 | florian_kc | mallum: yep, sounds like a good idea... |
| 12:32.29 | florian_kc | mallum: but i wouldn't worry about this. |
| 12:33.09 | mallum | florian_kc: aha its back on :-) |
| 12:33.16 | florian_kc | mallum: cool |
| 12:33.30 | mallum | florian_kc: after all that I think it is the power adaptor |
| 12:33.58 | mallum | PHEW! |
| 12:34.09 | mallum | very worried then, unit is not even a month old |
| 12:34.17 | mallum | I should order a new battery fro my 3870 |
| 12:36.44 | florian_kc | mallum: very good idea, the 3870 is one of the best :-) At least it makes a much better music player :-) |
| 12:37.22 | mallum | florian_kc: cheapbatterys.co.uk has em for 50 ukp |
| 12:38.43 | florian_kc | mallum: this is not that much... |
| 12:39.18 | mallum | sorry thats http://www.cheap-battery.co.uk/ |
| 12:42.45 | mallum | florian_kc: I wish tigert would do these new icons so we can fix cpu usage by minisys |
| 12:43.59 | florian_kc | mallum: hmm yes, this would be fine.... |
| 12:44.36 | florian_kc | mallum: I need to tell Nils, we need at least one battery for our 3660. |
| 12:44.52 | mallum | they are only 40ukp for them |
| 12:45.07 | mallum | 45 rather |
| 12:46.23 | florian_kc | I can't remember what's the price in germany :-/ |
| 12:47.31 | mallum | florian_kc: how to I mount the 16Mb extra partition on the 5xxx, cant seem to find any info in wiki |
| 12:50.20 | mallum | florian_kc: I got one on them voyager cf cards from ebay ( havn't recieved at yet ) |
| 12:50.32 | mallum | florian_kc: hoping to do fosdem presentation off ipaq |
| 12:52.27 | mallum | florian_kc: need to write tiny presentation program for ipaq ;-) |
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| 13:18.35 | tigert | mallum: check yer mail |
| 13:19.05 | mallum | tigert: ;-) |
| 13:19.12 | mallum | tigert: where did you send it ? |
| 13:19.23 | tigert | replied to your mail |
| 13:19.29 | mallum | tigert: okey got it :-) |
| 13:19.34 | tigert | openedhand |
| 13:19.52 | tigert | is it good? |
| 13:20.06 | tigert | I wasnt exactly sure how you need to do it |
| 13:20.17 | tigert | but it could do it so that if it runs on battery.. |
| 13:20.37 | tigert | it would have a progressbar on the place of the power plug |
| 13:20.39 | tigert | and if it recharges, show the plug? |
| 13:20.54 | mallum | tigert: its cool :-) |
| 13:21.00 | tigert | goody |
| 13:21.22 | tigert | I'll try to do the cpu/mem/whatever thing soon |
| 13:21.52 | mallum | tigert: I can cut it up a bit to make it fit 16x16 better too |
| 13:21.57 | mallum | tigert: I owe you pints |
| 13:22.05 | mallum | tigert: are you going to be at fosdem ? |
| 13:31.07 | tigert | no :( |
| 13:31.11 | tigert | so it needs to be 16x16? |
| 13:31.34 | tigert | the plug? |
| 13:31.58 | mallum | tigert: no its fine. I can make 2 icons outs of it for both 16x16 panel apps and 32x32 panel apps |
| 13:32.23 | tigert | right |
| 13:32.24 | tigert | ok |
| 13:32.40 | tigert | show me screenshots once you integrate it |
| 13:32.42 | tigert | I can fix it if needed |
| 13:32.55 | mallum | tigert: sure |
| 13:33.05 | mallum | tigert: I will before I release anything |
| 13:34.09 | mallum | tigert: hopefully get a chance to integrate later this afternoon |
| 13:34.17 | mallum | tigert: ok if not fosdem, at guadec then |
| 13:43.00 | mallum | tigert: do you follow gpe ml ? |
| 13:49.08 | tigert | ok good |
| 13:49.10 | tigert | no, no time for the mailing list |
| 13:49.17 | tigert | now I got to run, ttyl |
| 13:50.35 | mallum | tigert: okey thanks again :-) |
| 13:54.09 | florian_kc | mallum: this should be... hmm look at /proc/partitions |
| 13:54.52 | florian_kc | mallum: oh nice... a presentation program would be cool, but first we need to make pther stuff work! |
| 13:55.27 | mallum | florian_kc: yeah I know ;-) |
| 13:55.57 | mallum | florian_kc: getting mb fixed up is priority for me atm |
| 14:01.27 | florian_kc | mallum: yep, this is really more important.... |
| 14:14.38 | mallum | florian_kc: just about to try out new build |
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| 14:32.42 | mallum | jg: mornin |
| 14:56.50 | jg | morning mallum |
| 14:57.34 | mallum | jg: did you look at that link I posted here for you yesterday ? |
| 15:28.26 | {HyGy} | bye |
| 15:32.28 | mallum | tigert: http://handhelds.org/~mallum/mb-applet-battery-ac.png |
| 15:32.37 | mallum | tigert: and http://handhelds.org/~mallum/mb-applet-battery.png |
| 15:34.19 | jg | mallum: yes. |
| 15:34.25 | jg | mallum: it is the cyborg community at work (play). The biggest issue is that they also want/need low power, so it will be a few years before that appears at the lowest end of the market. Some of those fruit-cakes are nutty enough to lug around laptops on their backs, though, so they could experiment with the stuff we are working on Xserver to do in the meanwhile. |
| 15:35.27 | mallum | jg: ;-) |
| 15:35.40 | mallum | jg: I dont want to be a cyborg |
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| 16:21.37 | mallum | florian_kc: okey I think these mb packages are uploadable |
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| 16:22.27 | ShortWave | Hi all |
| 16:22.46 | ShortWave | Is it possible to compile gpe using the Xserver source from Freedesktop.org (based on Kdrive)? |
| 16:23.13 | mallum | ShortWave: yes, thats what we use in unstable |
| 16:23.35 | ShortWave | okee |
| 16:23.40 | ShortWave | Know of any links to instructions? |
| 16:24.00 | ShortWave | And do I need to do funky stuff like get XFree86 sources? |
| 16:24.10 | mallum | nope, apart from the xserver build instructions on fd.o |
| 16:24.33 | mallum | ShortWave: you can build gpe against regular X, apps will still work on a fd.o server |
| 16:24.44 | ShortWave | ahhh |
| 16:25.25 | ShortWave | I compiled gpe earlier against a full X compile, but changed my server (and deleted the original X libs) to go to kdrive since I want it very small |
| 16:25.39 | ShortWave | So I'm thinking, since I'm missing the X libs anyway... |
| 16:26.08 | mallum | just build X and the libs. aslong as gpe know where to find the new xlibs you shouldn't need to rebuild |
| 16:26.31 | mallum | if you want a matchbox with a compositing manager you will need to build that against the fd.o libs |
| 16:27.27 | ShortWave | hrm, ok |
| 16:27.32 | ShortWave | we'll see what happens then |
| 16:27.50 | ShortWave | All of this was compiled under uclibc |
| 16:28.08 | mallum | ah cool |
| 16:28.29 | ShortWave | essentially building an LFS system, but using uclibc with a regular kernel and what-not |
| 16:29.15 | ShortWave | I'm curious tho, what do you mean by fd.o? |
| 16:29.26 | ShortWave | freedesktop.org? |
| 16:30.45 | mallum | yeah |
| 16:31.51 | ShortWave | ah, k |
| 16:32.20 | ShortWave | hrm |
| 16:32.22 | ShortWave | immediate failure |
| 16:33.20 | ShortWave | apparently I'm missing X11/Xlib.h |
| 16:35.48 | ShortWave | how do I get around this Xlib problem? |
| 16:36.17 | mallum | check the build instructions on fd.o |
| 16:37.14 | ShortWave | k |
| 16:38.41 | florian_kc | re |
| 16:46.40 | mallum | florian_kc: new ipkgs uploaded |
| 16:53.00 | florian_kc | mallum: ah, cool! |
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| 17:06.11 | florian_kc | huh, two of them! |
| 17:06.16 | florian_kc | hi paul |
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| 17:39.09 | RobiWan | Hi |
| 17:53.01 | florian_kc | hi RobiWan |
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| 17:58.00 | florian_kc | mccarthy: hello |
| 17:58.07 | mccarthy | hi florian_kc |
| 17:58.14 | mccarthy | just hosed my ipaq :( |
| 17:58.26 | mccarthy | wanted to ask pb if he had any cool new images to start from |
| 17:58.39 | florian_kc | ekks, that's bad... |
| 17:59.06 | mallum | mccarthy: try and make it look to pretty ? ;-) |
| 17:59.13 | florian_kc | He intended to create new ones... but i think he is wating for gpe-package... |
| 17:59.46 | mccarthy | well. it is dangerous to do an ipkg upgrade with only with a 3600 series ;); people keep adding new packages to the depends and then I get filled up and cannot recover :( |
| 18:00.05 | mccarthy | mallum: but pretty is worth the trouble ;) |
| 18:00.13 | mallum | mccarthy: girl |
| 18:00.34 | mccarthy | mallum: lol |
| 18:01.01 | mccarthy | so this panelmgr thingie lets you put the clock inthe top right?! |
| 18:01.28 | mccarthy | (crap. I left my CF card at home!) |
| 18:01.31 | mallum | nope |
| 18:01.46 | mccarthy | how was your clock in the top right then in the scap? |
| 18:02.45 | mallum | mccarthy: because I have special powers |
| 18:03.01 | mccarthy | mallum: oh. should have known... |
| 18:03.32 | mallum | mccarthy: seriously though you need a as yet unreleased theme to add a panel to the titlebar |
| 18:03.56 | mallum | mccarthy: and the gpe apps cant handle multiple docks which sucks so they wont work in it |
| 18:04.16 | mallum | mccarthy: needs some tweaking |
| 18:04.36 | mccarthy | what part doesnt like multiple docks? |
| 18:05.50 | mallum | each panel has a specific number, gpe panel apps only work with panels numbered 0 afaik |
| 18:06.25 | mallum | mb tray applets check an env var SYSTEM_TRAY_ID which contains the tray id they should dock on |
| 18:06.33 | mccarthy | oh I get it. I thought you were saying you couldn't run gpe-calendar or some such (which made no sense) |
| 18:06.44 | mallum | no apps will run fine |
| 18:07.17 | mccarthy | so you can only add mini-X to the upper panel (but all gpe stuff needs to go in the bottom panel?!) |
| 18:07.24 | mallum | right |
| 18:07.38 | mallum | unless you dont run a bottom panel |
| 18:07.42 | __moray | mallum: though it won't matter if we just have one, yes |
| 18:08.06 | __moray | death to bottom panels ;) |
| 18:08.44 | mccarthy | how do I move something from my ipaq to my desktop with minicom?! |
| 18:09.10 | mccarthy | nevermind. I think I got it |
| 18:09.14 | __moray | zmodem ? |
| 18:09.29 | __moray | rz / sz if you need to do it explicitly, IIRC |
| 18:09.31 | mccarthy | but for some reason its called sz, but yes |
| 18:10.06 | mccarthy | need to recover some files before re-zapping the ipaq |
| 18:10.27 | mccarthy | unfortunately, I think I need to do it over the serial line! |
| 18:10.29 | __moray | it's a perfectly logical name, it's just bad of them to steal the namespace for something most people won't often use |
| 18:10.33 | __moray | ah yes |
| 18:13.24 | mallum | __moray: I kind of like the bottom panel on ipaq at least |
| 18:15.09 | __moray | mallum: maybe. though as I was arguing the other day, stuff you want to interact with should probably be at the top |
| 18:16.54 | mallum | __moray: I guess it kind of depends on the device, I dunno really... quite indifferent |
| 18:19.37 | mccarthy | 100k down, only 139,000k to go! |
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| 18:21.29 | mallum | __moray: you normally havbe input manager thingy at bottom |
| 18:29.26 | __moray | mallum: yeah, which is kind of necessary if you need to see the rest of the screen at the same time (since your hand would cover it otherwise) |
| 18:29.33 | __moray | mallum: although, it ought to pop up automatically |
| 18:29.44 | __moray | mallum: in which case you wouldn't need a panel for it to sit on |
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| 18:30.30 | mallum | __moray: Im gonna try and add dbus support to it pretty soon so apps can summon it up |
| 18:30.52 | __moray | mallum: cool; we can hopefully patch GTK to do that automatically (and shut it again) |
| 18:31.24 | mallum | __moray: yeah that would be cool |
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| 18:48.17 | florian_kc | mallum: looks fine... only the fonts are a little bit large. |
| 18:49.38 | mallum | florian_kc: wah, what fonts where ? |
| 18:50.15 | florian_kc | mallum: Window titles and desktop font... |
| 18:50.35 | mallum | florian_kc: you can change em if you dont like em |
| 18:50.54 | florian_kc | mallum: yes sure, but they are larger than before... |
| 18:51.39 | florian_kc | mallum: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.2930.png |
| 18:51.57 | florian_kc | mallum: Is the titlebar font a theme setting? |
| 18:51.58 | mallum | florian_kc: yeah clearer |
| 18:52.18 | mallum | look in the theme.xml |
| 18:52.47 | __moray | florian_kc: I think most of our fonts are rather small for typical users - e.g. the tab labels there are pretty tiny for non-ideal viewing conditions |
| 18:53.05 | __moray | florian_kc: that doesn't mean everyone needs to use bigger ones, but we should make sure programs work with larger fonts |
| 18:53.10 | __moray | (without ugliness) |
| 18:53.28 | florian_kc | yes, that's true... |
| 18:54.03 | florian_kc | this reminds me that i intended to look at the tab implementation in gpe-info.... |
| 18:59.37 | cmarqu | Hi. |
| 19:00.17 | cmarqu | florian_kc: "Global Appearance" would probably enough for a title in that scap. |
| 19:01.00 | cmarqu | (and I would put in some more spacing between the categories) |
| 19:01.13 | *** part/#gpe RobiWan (~RobiWan@p50824AAB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:02.30 | florian_kc | hi cmarqu |
| 19:05.20 | florian_kc | cmarqu: ok, done... the spacing is another issue... this whole tool needs some updates. |
| 19:11.01 | florian_kc | bbl |
| 19:29.57 | *** join/#gpe ShortWave (~ShortWave@ip68-100-100-183.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 19:30.00 | ShortWave | hey all |
| 19:30.35 | ShortWave | I'm having a problem compiling matchbox on a uclibc/freedesktop.org system...can't find xpm.h, anyone know where I might find that in the freedesktop.org stuff? |
| 19:31.05 | mallum | ShortWave: you should be able to build matchbox without xpm.h |
| 19:31.22 | mallum | ShortWave: hmm do you know whats pulling it in ? |
| 19:31.29 | mallum | ShortWave: one sec biab |
| 19:33.41 | *** join/#gpe ShortWave (~ShortWave@ip68-100-100-183.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 19:58.57 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@p240.n-nypop04.stsn.com) |
| 19:59.54 | mccarthy | hi pb_ |
| 20:00.09 | pb_ | hi mccarthy |
| 20:00.24 | *** join/#gpe robin_ (~robin@debian.demon.nl) |
| 20:00.32 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@pD9E5F095.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:00.36 | florian | re |
| 20:00.37 | pb_ | hi florian |
| 20:00.44 | florian | hi pb_ |
| 20:01.18 | mccarthy | I still dont get that re thing.... :) |
| 20:01.29 | pb_ | heh |
| 20:01.53 | mccarthy | pb_: you here in the states now?! |
| 20:02.00 | pb_ | yup |
| 20:02.11 | pb_ | I'm sitting in my hotel room in Times Square at the moment. |
| 20:02.33 | florian | oh cool |
| 20:02.36 | mccarthy | Sounds like fun. I am getting ready to go to class in 1 minute. |
| 20:02.41 | mccarthy | :( |
| 20:02.47 | pb_ | mccarthy: aha. enjoy! |
| 20:03.38 | pb_ | florian: in fact it's beyond cool; positively freezing. |
| 20:03.53 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-113-164.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:03.59 | florian | :-)) |
| 20:04.03 | pb_ | well, somewhere around -7C. |
| 20:04.34 | florian | okay, maybe we'll have this today too... |
| 20:06.04 | *** join/#gpe wonid (~destroyer@065.a.002.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 20:06.06 | mccarthy | pb_: come now pb_, you are in the US now. You should say 14F or whatever that works out to be (I never did understand that damn Celcius scale) |
| 20:06.39 | florian | mccarthy: hehe, celsius is easy :-) |
| 20:06.50 | mccarthy | I guess spelling it is not ;) |
| 20:07.17 | mccarthy | ibot convert -7C to F for me! |
| 20:07.37 | pb_ | heh |
| 20:07.43 | mccarthy | whoa. ibot opened a window up to yell at me! |
| 20:07.53 | mccarthy | apparently he is from europe |
| 20:08.03 | mccarthy | bbiw |
| 20:08.41 | florian | hell... what kind of batterys fit into this Kiev35?! |
| 20:09.35 | pb_ | Presumably some crazy Russian size. |
| 20:11.24 | mallum | florian: kiev35 ? |
| 20:13.37 | pb_ | I'm guessing that's some kind of old camera. |
| 20:21.40 | florian | hehe more or less... it is a quite modern type... |
| 20:22.20 | florian | mallum: pb_ is right, an russian camera - this is a small one. |
| 20:22.29 | mallum | florian: cool |
| 20:22.48 | pb_ | florian: aha, right. I don't think I've ever seen a modern Kiev, but I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise that they exist :-) |
| 20:23.40 | mallum | I've seen a chicken kiev before |
| 20:23.57 | pb_ | similar, but different in a few important ways. |
| 20:25.13 | florian | pb_: They are not really common, i think only the Kiev88CM is still in production... and this is a medium format camera. |
| 20:26.58 | pb_ | florian: ah, I see. |
| 20:27.02 | florian | mallum: I have chicken and hen ;-) |
| 20:27.21 | mallum | florian: hippy |
| 20:27.27 | florian | ;-) |
| 20:28.38 | mallum | florian: have you tried mbpanelmgr yet ? |
| 20:31.00 | florian | mallum: yep, works fine :-) |
| 20:31.07 | mallum | florian: cool :-) |
| 20:33.36 | florian | ok, my first job this evening is fixing gpe-aerial- |
| 20:35.43 | pb_ | sounds good |
| 20:38.30 | robin_ | hi |
| 20:38.46 | florian | yep, it seems to dislike some defaults in latest prismstumbler |
| 20:38.50 | florian | hi robin_ |
| 20:39.56 | pb_ | florian: btw, I thought I might add prismstumbler to Debian. does that sound like a good idea? |
| 20:42.48 | *** join/#gpe wonid (~destroyer@065.a.002.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 20:43.30 | florian | pb_: oh yes, this sounds good! |
| 20:43.52 | pb_ | ok, cool. |
| 20:48.00 | pb_ | is there a URL for released tarballs? |
| 20:50.33 | ShortWave | hrm |
| 20:50.43 | florian | pb_: yes, but they are really out of date... i intend to release current stuff as 0.7.0 as soon as possible. |
| 20:50.56 | pb_ | florian: right. I guess I'll wait for that, then. |
| 20:51.14 | florian | pb_: i only need to fix some bugs... and implement saving of config. |
| 20:52.29 | ShortWave | I'm trying to compile gtk+ to work with the freedesktop.org xserver source, and it can't find Intrinsic.h |
| 20:52.29 | florian | pb_: yes, i think this is better... |
| 20:52.29 | ShortWave | is that neccessary? Can I just touch Intrinsic.h? |
| 20:52.29 | florian | hi ShortWave |
| 20:52.38 | ShortWave | florian: hail |
| 20:53.17 | ShortWave | Anyone have an answer? |
| 20:53.38 | florian | Hmm... not really, never tried to compile X. |
| 20:54.37 | pb_ | I wonder what it wants with that header. |
| 20:54.45 | pb_ | iirc, Intrinsic.h is part of Xt. |
| 20:56.31 | ShortWave | Hrm |
| 20:56.32 | ShortWave | Xt? |
| 20:56.38 | ShortWave | Now that's something to look at |
| 20:57.52 | ShortWave | yup, it's part of Xt |
| 20:58.03 | ShortWave | Now how do I get it seperate of X? |
| 20:58.56 | pb_ | I think you should figure out how to get GTK to not required it. |
| 20:59.04 | pb_ | s/required/require/ |
| 21:00.59 | ShortWave | well there's a --with-x configuration option...I wonder if it will accept --without-x |
| 21:02.50 | pb_ | You want X, just not Xt. |
| 21:03.44 | ShortWave | hrm |
| 21:03.51 | ShortWave | well apparently it's built into the configure script to look for Xt |
| 21:05.10 | ShortWave | in fact, the configure script looks for the Xt shared libs |
| 21:07.51 | pb_ | very strange. |
| 21:13.35 | pb_ | what does it do with the libs when it finds them? |
| 21:30.47 | pb_ | moray: did you say you'd found a non-bitkeeper site for the latest benh 2.6 kernel bits? |
| 21:31.01 | mccarthy | hey is there an ssh client that comes with dropbear? (Up til now I have always simply replaced it with the real ssh/sshd) |
| 21:31.26 | pb_ | mccarthy: no, unfortunately not. |
| 21:31.27 | mccarthy | mayhaps I simply use real ssh |
| 21:31.53 | pb_ | yah. if that works for you, that's probably the best thing to do right now. |
| 21:31.56 | mccarthy | darn |
| 21:32.22 | pb_ | there's another (smaller) ssh client called lsh, but everybody tells me that it sucks. |
| 21:32.39 | mccarthy | ok. back to real ssh/sshd it is then |
| 21:50.39 | moray | pb_: I think I used source.mvista.com::linuxppc-2.5-benh |
| 21:50.51 | moray | (rsync) |
| 21:50.57 | pb_ | ok, I'll try that. |
| 21:51.04 | pb_ | my radeonfb is acting up again. |
| 21:51.57 | pb_ | hell, and now arm-linux-strip is malfunctioning. |
| 21:52.19 | mccarthy | later all |
| 21:52.25 | *** part/#gpe mccarthy (~mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 21:54.50 | florian | woops |
| 21:56.43 | pb_ | I guess I should update my toolchain bits and see what happens. |
| 22:01.00 | florian | http://handhelds.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1148 |
| 22:01.25 | pb_ | heh, right. |
| 22:01.34 | pb_ | I was just reading a thread on some mailing list about this. |
| 22:02.11 | florian | Well... this bug is a reason to remind him :-) |
| 22:02.41 | florian | ehm... does the system have a config file for this stuff? |
| 22:03.01 | pb_ | Not really, no. |
| 22:05.36 | *** join/#gpe sumguy22 (~test@ses.lvcablemodem.com) |
| 22:05.42 | florian | hmm, then this seems to a little bit more work than gui updates... |
| 22:05.50 | pb_ | yup, unfortunately. |
| 22:05.56 | pb_ | I think there also needs to be some hotplug stuff. |
| 22:08.45 | florian | Another question... familiar brings up a bnep device if it appears, debian doesn't... what's missing? |
| 22:09.40 | *** join/#gpe pattieja (~pattieja@63-252-5-1.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 22:10.03 | pb_ | Mm, that's strange. I have no idea. |
| 22:10.43 | florian | ok, if it's not obvious then i'll investigate... as soon i have some time... |
| 22:11.14 | pb_ | Okay, that'd be good. |
| 22:19.56 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@p240.n-nypop04.stsn.com) |
| 22:23.14 | *** join/#gpe ShortWave (~ShortWave@ip68-100-100-183.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 22:25.20 | pb_ | Whoops, flat battery. |
| 22:25.48 | florian | :-/ |
| 22:25.48 | pb_ | For some reason the gnome battery monitor wasn't running, so the first I knew of it was when my laptop shut down. |
| 22:25.49 | mallum | pb_: I usually run pbuttonsd which has a fit when the battery gets low |
| 22:27.34 | pattieja | anybody know if linphone-gpe works properly with a 36XX series iPAQ? |
| 22:27.52 | pattieja | It seems I'm getting the same problems on my laptop and the PDA using ALSA |
| 22:27.59 | pattieja | working with linphone |
| 22:28.20 | pb_ | I think it ought to work, but I haven't tested it personally. Jamey would know. |
| 22:31.43 | pattieja | can't find him on #handhelds or here |
| 22:31.53 | pattieja | ibot: seen jamey |
| 22:32.00 | | jamey <~jamey@3ffe:4015:ffff:11:2e0:63ff:fe81:cc92> was last seen on IRC in channel #handhelds.org, 6d 23h 4m 28s ago, saying: 'later all'. |
| 22:32.20 | pattieja | ouch |
| 22:32.23 | pattieja | 6 days |
| 22:32.32 | pattieja | practically 7 |
| 22:32.38 | pattieja | hmm |
| 22:33.17 | pattieja | pb_: the audio goes all choppy and scratchy and repetitive like. I can't make anything out. It's very pulsating, like the same short clip is being repeated over and over again |
| 22:33.19 | pb_ | heh. maybe he broke his laptop. |
| 22:33.33 | pb_ | pattieja: sounds weird. did you try the OSS drivers/ |
| 22:34.19 | pattieja | pb_: no. how do I do that? |
| 22:34.31 | florian | eeks! |
| 22:34.35 | florian | return -1; |
| 22:34.35 | florian | create_table(); |
| 22:34.41 | pb_ | I'm not sure exactly. I think you would uninstall alsa-modules and install sound-modules in their place. |
| 22:34.42 | pb_ | florian: ! |
| 22:34.50 | florian | This must be a bug! |
| 22:34.51 | pattieja | pb_: k. will try that |
| 22:35.16 | pb_ | florian: it's certainly hard to imagine how it could be anything else. |
| 22:36.23 | pattieja | pb_: no packages named sound-modules |
| 22:36.36 | pb_ | oh dear. |
| 22:36.52 | pattieja | doing an ipkg update... |
| 22:37.28 | pattieja | oops. my bad |
| 22:37.42 | pattieja | did an additional grep for Package: when doing an ipkg list |
| 22:38.27 | pb_ | ah |
| 22:39.17 | florian | pb_: heh, yes - it is |
| 22:43.10 | sumguy22 | does anyone know how to get the wifi working on a h5555 with .7.2? |
| 22:43.52 | pattieja | pb_: uhhmmm. It installed modules for a kernel I'm not running |
| 22:44.03 | pattieja | hh36 instead of hh30 |
| 22:45.29 | florian | sumguy22: I think it's a good idea to update to latest kernel, then it's easy. |
| 22:46.12 | florian | sumguy22: You need to initialize manually, i think there are a few lines about it at handhelds.org h5000 project pages. |
| 22:47.45 | pb_ | pattieja: ah. probably easiest just to upgrade to hh36. |
| 22:47.57 | pattieja | pb_: point to unstable and ipkg upgrade? |
| 22:48.11 | pattieja | (already pointing at unstable) |
| 22:48.17 | pb_ | yup |
| 22:48.34 | pattieja | hope I don't run out of space. I only had 1.4MB free when I started the upgrade process |
| 22:48.50 | pattieja | fluctuating, but currently at 352K |
| 22:49.00 | pattieja | ooh. Do I need to stop GPE in any way? |
| 22:49.14 | pattieja | ouch. ran out of space. :( |
| 22:49.17 | pb_ | probably not all that vital, though it might be a good idea. |
| 22:49.18 | pb_ | oops. |
| 22:49.22 | florian | sumguy22: If you ask me again in 14 hours, i'll send you an example script... |
| 22:50.05 | florian | running out of space is really a bad problem with ipkg :-/ |
| 22:50.30 | pattieja | GPE just went to a "background" screen |
| 22:50.37 | pb_ | pattieja: you could flash the unstable7 image, which has hh36 and linphone. |
| 22:50.37 | pattieja | desktop crashed or went away or something |
| 22:51.09 | pb_ | bbl, dinner time |
| 22:51.15 | sumguy22 | florian: why 14 hours? :-) |
| 22:52.34 | florian | sumguy22: I can't find it om my local pc, i have it on the ipaq at company - i know i'll be there in about 14 hours. |
| 22:52.37 | florian | :-) |
| 22:52.45 | sumguy22 | ahh :-) tnx |
| 22:52.52 | florian | _dinner_ time? |
| 22:53.16 | florian | sumguy22: or drop me mail at florian.boor@kernelconcepts.de |
| 22:53.33 | florian | ahh i see - pb_ in US now! |
| 22:53.38 | florian | phew.... |
| 22:59.00 | sumguy22 | florian: does suspend work properly for you too on h55xx? I have a suspend issue |
| 22:59.57 | florian | sumguy22: I'm not sure about latest kernel - pb_ might know. I still have an older kernel installed which doesn't support it properly. |
| 23:01.12 | sumguy22 | cool, I think suspend and wifi are the only show stoppers for me right now, I can't wait to start running linux on handheld again, I used to have a Zauaurs |
| 23:02.40 | florian | At the moment the worst problem is that we have more and more models and not enough kernel hackers... support for h5xxx _could_ be perfect. |
| 23:03.36 | pattieja | anybody know where to get the "unstable7" image pb_ was talking about? |
| 23:04.56 | florian | pattieja: try pb_'s dir at handhelds.org |
| 23:05.04 | pattieja | florian: URL? |
| 23:05.49 | florian | http://handhelds.org/~pb/unstable/ |
| 23:05.54 | pattieja | florian: I was thinking of possibly attempting to flash the stable image back, remove the alsa-modules package, ipkg install the sound-modules package, add the unstable feed back to my ipkg sources, update, and then install linphone-gpe again from unstable |
| 23:06.40 | pattieja | ooh. interesting |
| 23:07.13 | florian | pattieja: maybe it's easier with the unstable image |
| 23:12.54 | pattieja | florian: will have to wait awhile to download the image... |
| 23:13.07 | pattieja | about half a minute more, now |
| 23:13.39 | pattieja | ouch. iPAQ is hung (trying to reboot after out of space issues) at the penguin boot screen |
| 23:14.27 | pattieja | florian: the only thing I don't like is the fact that pb_ doesn't have any md5sums associated with his files (that I can see in that directory) |
| 23:15.49 | florian | pattieja: maybe he provides them inside a reflash.ctl |
| 23:20.16 | pattieja | don't see one of those either |
| 23:20.38 | pattieja | oh well. I manually md5'd the file and added the appropriate entries to md5sums and reflash.ctl on my CF drive |
| 23:20.46 | pattieja | we're on our way... |
| 23:20.49 | pattieja | erasing... |
| 23:21.02 | pattieja | programming... |
| 23:22.04 | pattieja | verifying... |
| 23:22.23 | pattieja | this beats x/ymodem uploads any day |
| 23:23.33 | florian | hehe, yeah |
| 23:23.39 | pattieja | almost done |
| 23:23.49 | pattieja | here we go |
| 23:24.12 | pattieja | whew. for a second there, the screen stayed black longer than normal |
| 23:24.21 | pattieja | then the penguin came up... |
| 23:24.22 | pattieja | :) |
| 23:28.55 | pattieja | umm. linphone is already in the default 'unstable' install? |
| 23:29.59 | florian | yes, for about three days... |
| 23:30.07 | pattieja | cool |
| 23:37.30 | *** join/#gpe dnathief__ (~dnathief@219.e.011.mel.iprimus.net.au) |
| 23:37.50 | pattieja | I kind of liked it better when there was no cursor on the screen (just the little tiny dot) |
| 23:38.32 | pattieja | although I need the cursor for another project where I'm trying to put GPE on a computer that doesn't have a touchscreen and will be using the mouse |
| 23:38.45 | pattieja | hope that's a compile-time or runtime option |
| 23:39.15 | florian | yes, iirc this is switched by detect-stylus on system startup. |
| 23:39.20 | pattieja | cool |
| 23:39.33 | pattieja | florian: it seems that 'unstable' is slower than the previous release |
| 23:39.45 | pattieja | things take longer to come up and there is a general feeling of lethargy |
| 23:39.52 | pattieja | don't know why that is |
| 23:42.38 | florian | i think that's caused by the new xserver stuff... maybe ask mallum about this. |
| 23:46.13 | pattieja | as in all the new fluffy stuff around the edges of windows, etc.? |
| 23:46.41 | pattieja | I notice there are drop shadows on lots of things now (like the application bar, and windows, etc.) |
| 23:47.05 | ShortWave | do I need gpe for perl? |
| 23:47.12 | ShortWave | rather perl for gpe? |
| 23:47.28 | florian | pattieja: yes, exactly... |
| 23:47.36 | florian | ShortWave: nope |
| 23:47.58 | mallum | pattieja: year were experimenting with new X compositing eyecandy in unstable |
| 23:48.06 | mallum | pattieja: but you can turn it off |
| 23:48.36 | mallum | pattieja: 'xst write MATCHBOX/COMPOSITE str off' |
| 23:49.04 | mallum | pattieja: support is still a little sketchy |
| 23:51.05 | florian | closed another dark section in prismstumbler... |
| 23:52.03 | mallum | pattieja: what ipaq are you using btw ? |
| 23:52.11 | pattieja | mallum: h3670 |
| 23:53.16 | mallum | pattieja: if you do an xrandr -o left ( or right ), does it then feel a lot faster ? |
| 23:57.51 | florian | night all... |
| 23:58.20 | pattieja | mallum: not particularly, and the app does not resize itself to be able to be usable in that "small" of screen realty |
| 23:58.27 | pattieja | (linphone, that is) |
| 23:59.01 | pattieja | hmm... both alsa drivers and oss drivers are loaded in the kernel |
| 23:59.37 | pattieja | rebooting |
