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| 00:31.28 | *** topic/#gpe is #gpe, not #handhelds.org | GPE: The GPE Palmtop Environment | latest bootstrap images: unstable6 |
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| 06:37.57 | paul | anyone here? |
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| 08:05.46 | *** join/#gpe {HyGy} (~hygy@caracas-1005.adsl.interware.hu) |
| 08:05.52 | {HyGy} | hi |
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| 08:56.25 | *** join/#gpe florian_kc (~fuchs@kc.celox-online.de) |
| 08:56.31 | florian_kc | hi all |
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| 09:00.13 | florian_kc | hello robin_ |
| 09:24.17 | {HyGy} | florian_kc |
| 09:24.37 | florian_kc | hi {HyGy} |
| 09:25.44 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: It is some time ago you were seen last time... everything ok? |
| 09:28.44 | {HyGy} | yes |
| 09:28.55 | florian_kc | great :-) |
| 09:29.57 | {HyGy} | I've got rather a lot work to do :) |
| 09:30.44 | {HyGy} | I'm working on a Museums webpage. |
| 09:30.54 | {HyGy} | (not only one) |
| 09:31.11 | {HyGy} | Baranya county museums webpage ;) |
| 09:31.42 | {HyGy} | can I write on ipaq an accentuated letter? |
| 09:31.45 | {HyGy} | :) |
| 09:31.48 | {HyGy} | wrong question |
| 09:31.49 | {HyGy} | :) |
| 09:31.56 | {HyGy} | how can I ... :) |
| 09:32.23 | florian_kc | hehe with the correct keyboard definition :-) |
| 09:32.39 | {HyGy} | I almost forget it to say happy new year to you! :) |
| 09:33.01 | {HyGy} | how can I change my keyboard definition? :) |
| 09:33.27 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: hehe, same to you.... |
| 09:33.50 | florian_kc | There are keyboard definition files in.... let me look.... |
| 09:34.39 | robin_ | florian_kc: hello |
| 09:35.51 | florian_kc | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:36.36 | florian_kc | mallum is the maintainer of xkbd... i think he is happy about any language specific keyboard definition file. |
| 09:39.51 | {HyGy} | aha |
| 09:39.58 | {HyGy} | so I need to make one? |
| 09:41.04 | florian_kc | yes, i don't think there is a hungarian keyboard def yet... |
| 09:47.17 | {HyGy} | is it difficult to make it? :) |
| 09:48.44 | florian_kc | nno, don't think so - it is an xml-like file. |
| 09:49.03 | {HyGy} | aha |
| 09:49.04 | {HyGy} | :) |
| 09:49.15 | {HyGy} | I thinking about change my workplace ;) |
| 09:51.59 | florian_kc | to your ipaq? ;-) |
| 09:52.06 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@dsl-62-3-66-204.zen.co.uk) |
| 09:52.11 | {HyGy} | not that |
| 09:52.21 | florian_kc | hey pb_ |
| 09:52.47 | {HyGy} | where I'm working |
| 09:52.54 | {HyGy} | pb_ |
| 09:52.56 | {HyGy} | hello |
| 09:53.12 | pb_ | florian_kc: yo! |
| 09:53.15 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: ah ok |
| 09:53.16 | pb_ | hello {HyGy} |
| 09:54.54 | pb_ | florian_kc: I see elephantum has the same problem with Xfbdev consuming all cpu time. |
| 09:56.44 | florian_kc | pb_: oh, that's interesting... one reason may be minisys. it causes a very high cpu load of latest X. |
| 09:57.07 | {HyGy} | florian_kc :) i don't earn lots of money (282.056 EUR) |
| 09:57.25 | pb_ | florian_kc: ah, could be. I don't usually run minisys, so that might explain why I don't see the problem. |
| 09:57.43 | pb_ | certainly elephantum's mail seems to be saying that it begins when he logs in, which would also be consistent with minisys. |
| 09:58.49 | florian_kc | pb_: But this seems to be not all. An empty desktop and prismstumbler frontend in background: Xfbdev uses > 10% of CPU. |
| 09:59.45 | florian_kc | Starting minisys it raises to about 67% |
| 10:00.28 | pb_ | That's certainly weird. |
| 10:00.33 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: Oh well... this is really not that much... apart from that i don't know what you need to live where you are.... |
| 10:00.49 | pb_ | Maybe you could try stracing Xfbdev to see what it's spending its time on. |
| 10:02.18 | florian_kc | sounds like a good idea... |
| 10:02.38 | {HyGy} | florian_kc hihi, I need to eat, give fuel tu my car, stg like others.... |
| 10:03.59 | florian_kc | wow, 52 mails in the last hour... there must be something wrong... |
| 10:04.51 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: Well... with that money it would be really hard to survive here - even without a car! |
| 10:06.28 | florian_kc | system() calls are ugly! |
| 10:07.03 | {HyGy} | 1 liter 98 extra fuel is about 0.863418 EUR |
| 10:07.26 | {HyGy} | florian_kc I know, it is very hard I know |
| 10:09.08 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: Here it is about 1.08 EUR, but e.g. renting a flat is about 7 EUR/m^2 minimum. |
| 10:10.28 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: btw. additionally a car is about 500 to 1000 EUR ensurance and up to 400 EUR taxes... every year :-( |
| 10:12.05 | {HyGy} | here is renting a flat is about 4 EUR/m2 (but it is not to good ;) it is a simple flat |
| 10:14.03 | {HyGy} | car assurance here is about 112.590 EUR-year |
| 10:15.14 | paul | hi pb/florian |
| 10:15.58 | {HyGy} | weight tax is about 90EUR/year in the smallest cathegory |
| 10:16.39 | florian_kc | hi paul |
| 10:16.54 | paul | florian_kc: hi florian... |
| 10:17.06 | paul | florian_kc: curious, what do you know about g_io_channel's? |
| 10:17.36 | {HyGy} | chepest eat in a restaurant is about 2000HUF |
| 10:17.44 | {HyGy} | is about 7.5 euro :) |
| 10:18.00 | florian_kc | paul: nearly nothing... i know they exist, but never used it. |
| 10:18.20 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: hmm... this is nearly the same like here... |
| 10:18.34 | {HyGy} | a P4 PC is about 450.516 euro |
| 10:18.38 | paul | florian_kc: i've been fixing up gpe-irc to not crash as much, but i'm stuck on a problem with g_io_channel, it gives an assertion: GLib-CRITICAL **: file giochannel.c: line 1451 (g_io_channel_re |
| 10:18.42 | paul | ad_line_string): assertion `channel->is_readable' failed |
| 10:18.57 | {HyGy} | na going to eat :) |
| 10:19.17 | florian_kc | {HyGy}: i have no idea what it is here :-) |
| 10:19.56 | {HyGy} | I make 282 euro / mount and a pc is 450 euro :) |
| 10:20.02 | {HyGy} | mounth :) |
| 10:21.01 | {HyGy} | :) |
| 10:21.20 | {HyGy} | so I go to eat (college refectory about :) 1.8 euro) |
| 10:22.03 | *** join/#gpe cyrille___ (~Cyrille37@AOrleans-103-1-19-55.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:22.05 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-113-164.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 10:22.25 | florian_kc | paul: looks like it tries to read from a channel it can't read from... sounds like a good idea to consult devhelp or gdk documentation about this. |
| 10:22.29 | florian_kc | hi mallum |
| 10:22.44 | cyrille___ | hello all ! |
| 10:22.55 | florian_kc | cyrille___: hello |
| 10:23.03 | mallum | hi ppl |
| 10:23.27 | cyrille___ | I've installed GPE on Familiar. In 'settings' I cannot find how to activate IrDA ? |
| 10:23.36 | paul | florian_kc: yes.. but the strange bit is that gpe-irc has just received a G_IO_IN event on that same channel. |
| 10:24.51 | paul | cyrille___: try going into menu->utilities->panel there might be a 'irDa control' there which will add an irda control thingy to your panel (for sending vcards/files) |
| 10:26.52 | cyrille___ | msg paul no, only some aerial, wireless, bluetooth, but no irDA ... |
| 10:27.45 | paul | cyrille___: have a look in the unstable feed then, an applet exists, unfortunately i'm not sure of the name. |
| 10:28.20 | florian_kc | cyrille___: The irda tool is maybe not installed per default. It is not considered to be stable... but i highly appreciate any feedback about it! |
| 10:29.04 | cyrille___ | where can I found that irDA tool ? |
| 10:29.29 | cyrille___ | or how to do same via shell ? |
| 10:30.40 | florian_kc | http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/gpe-beam_0.2.1_arm.ipk |
| 10:31.17 | florian_kc | i think you may pass this complete url to ipkg - it should be able to install it then. |
| 10:31.25 | cyrille___ | thanks, i'll try it |
| 10:34.33 | mallum | arg stupid tv licensing people |
| 10:34.58 | mallum | I baught a bttv card and now the tv licensing people are threatening to take me to court :/ |
| 10:35.21 | mallum | of course there is a license for my address but somebody obviously dont know how to query a database |
| 10:35.31 | cyrille___ | another stuff about GPE : problem with 'sleep config' |
| 10:36.02 | cyrille___ | it going to sleep even if i'm using it. |
| 10:49.56 | florian_kc | mallum: okay, it seems like you have a similar stupid system like in germany :-( |
| 10:50.35 | florian_kc | cyrille___: which model of ipaq are you using? |
| 11:12.23 | {HyGy} | re |
| 11:23.50 | cyrille___ | (bootgpe2-v0.7.2-h3600) I'm using Theme 'bluebox'. After reboot the desktop background is pink. I've to go in 'Global look' to set 'bluebox' again and restoring desktop backgruond. any idea ? |
| 11:24.26 | mallum | cyrille___: I *think* thats fixed in unstable |
| 11:26.44 | florian_kc | mallum: Now i remember why this was called 'Global Look" instead of 'Appearance'... Appearance doesn't fit into one line :-/ |
| 11:27.02 | mallum | florian_kc: yeah :/ |
| 11:27.23 | mallum | florian_kc: how about 'look and feel' ? |
| 11:27.37 | florian_kc | mallum: bought ;-) |
| 11:27.51 | mallum | florian_kc: or 'UI Prefs', 'UI Setup' |
| 11:28.17 | florian_kc | hmm... look and feel sounds way better |
| 11:28.23 | mallum | yeah |
| 11:28.30 | mallum | it should fit |
| 11:30.50 | cyrille___ | if I can tell somme thing about ... Global Look is right, because Look & Feel contains Feel. Feel means other option like behavior ... |
| 11:31.53 | florian_kc | mallum: Is this a problem if ipaq-sleep complains about a missing 'MIT-SREEN-SAVER' extension? |
| 11:32.56 | mallum | cyrille___: themes potentially change the sizing of various widgets, thus I think feel is ok. plus 'look and feel' is a bit more friendly sounding than global look |
| 11:33.04 | mallum | florian_kc: pb_ knows about that |
| 11:35.17 | florian_kc | pb_: Is this a problem if ipaq-sleep complains about a missing 'MIT-SREEN-SAVER' extension? |
| 11:35.28 | florian_kc | eeks... |
| 11:35.32 | florian_kc | :-) |
| 11:35.36 | florian_kc | s/this/it |
| 11:38.28 | cyrille___ | what's the meaning of : s/this/it ??? |
| 11:38.58 | mallum | cyrille___: substitue this for it in my last sentence |
| 11:39.31 | florian_kc | mallum seems to type faster than me :-( |
| 11:46.25 | pb_ | florian_kc: yes, it means you need to update your xserver. |
| 11:48.31 | florian_kc | cyrille___: got this? |
| 11:49.17 | florian_kc | pb_: ok, then this sounds like a reason, thanks. |
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| 12:34.54 | cyrille_____ | how to remove a applet from desktop bar ? I had 'teleport' but there is no menu to put it away ... |
| 12:35.34 | mallum | cyrille_____: click and hold on the panel ... |
| 13:00.18 | robin_ | I'm using Opie at the moment on my prototype platform, who can convince me that I should GPE insteed of Opie :)? |
| 13:00.45 | mallum | robin_: depends what you want todo with your platform |
| 13:03.10 | cyrille_____ | may I update matchbox 10.6.99 to 1:0.7.2 ?? |
| 13:03.10 | robin_ | mallum: Could you give an example, when I should use GPE or Opie |
| 13:04.21 | robin_ | cyrille____: i won't stop you :) |
| 13:07.40 | cyrille_____ | florian : my ipaq-sleep problem seems to be resolved since I've updated xserver-kdrive-fbdev !! |
| 13:09.05 | mallum | robin_: if you want to use it purely as a ce-like pim tool you can sync with etc use opie |
| 13:09.43 | mallum | robin_: if you want a bit more fun, flexibility and freedom run usual X apps etc use gpe |
| 13:11.43 | cyrille_____ | and it seems that the clock is now running at the good speed !!! |
| 13:12.41 | cyrille_____ | really, xserver update for last familiar seems to be a 'must do' (for my h3870) |
| 13:14.38 | robin_ | mallum: what about footprint, how big is GPE's library (X) isnt bloat ?, The reason I chose Opie at first, was actually because I't got's much better online documentation available, the GPE wiki's stuff is quite messy, no offense :) |
| 13:16.23 | mallum | robin_: yeah I agree about the wiki |
| 13:16.53 | mallum | robin_: resource wise there really is a lot of difference between opie and gpe nowadays |
| 13:17.03 | mallum | robin_: its a myth about X being big and bloated and slow |
| 13:21.59 | robin_ | mallum: Anyway, I'm still anxious to get GPE running on my platform. Could you give me a hint / url ? whatever, so I can get it compiled (got my own toolchain) for the pxa25X |
| 13:24.17 | *** join/#gpe drbyte (~byte@stmarks-nat.collegenet.adelaide.edu.au) |
| 13:25.38 | cyrille_____ | now 'rotate screen' does not work .. when clicking on it in panel, no thig appen. |
| 13:25.54 | cyrille_____ | is the reason is xserver update ? |
| 13:26.22 | cyrille_____ | that update repare ipaq-sleep, but seams to break screen rotate ... |
| 13:26.28 | mallum | robin_: see gpe.handhelds.org |
| 13:28.31 | robin_ | mallum: :) haha lol |
| 13:28.54 | mallum | robin_: you can use the same toolchain you used for opie |
| 13:29.20 | robin_ | mallum: what about xfb driver for pxa |
| 13:29.23 | mallum | robin_: I think there is a gtk2 toolchain as well ... florian or pb_ may know more about that |
| 13:29.44 | mallum | robin_: use binarys here http://handhelds.org/~mallum/xpkgs |
| 13:30.20 | spung | http://handhelds.org/~luis/gtk2-arm-cross.ext2.bz2 |
| 13:55.57 | florian_kc | re |
| 14:22.43 | pb_ | cyrille_____: I don't know of any reason why the updated xserver should break rotation, but it's possible. |
| 14:24.37 | mallum | pb_: rotation has worked for me with it |
| 14:26.20 | pb_ | ok. |
| 14:26.43 | mallum | pb_: btw any word on getting the dbus libs updated ? |
| 14:27.02 | pb_ | not that I've heard. |
| 14:27.19 | mallum | pb_: :( |
| 14:28.25 | pb_ | I forget who was looking at that most recently. andersca, maybe. |
| 14:28.50 | mallum | pb_: I mean the dbus packages in familiar |
| 14:29.30 | cyrille_____ | what software is managing screen rotation. I would like to run it by hand to try to find why it is stopping to work on my h3870 |
| 14:30.00 | mallum | cyrille_____: do a 'xrandr -o left' |
| 14:30.40 | pb_ | mallum: are the old and new packages parallel-installable? if so, there would be no obstacle to making new packages right away. |
| 14:32.34 | mallum | pb_: I dunno I suspect they have the same .so version |
| 14:33.01 | mallum | pb_: and then we'd need two dbus daemons etc |
| 14:33.05 | pb_ | ok. in that case, we'll have to update (or at least audit) all the packages in the dependency chain. |
| 14:33.16 | mallum | pb_: yep |
| 14:33.20 | pb_ | mallum: the daemon ought not to be a problem. I don't think the dbus wire protocol has changed much. |
| 14:34.01 | mallum | pb_: yeah I dunno I havn't tracked it recently |
| 14:34.21 | pb_ | me neither. oh well. |
| 14:34.36 | pb_ | I will try to remember who it was that was working on updating the dependent packages. |
| 14:35.56 | mallum | pb_: ok it would be nice to see how well gconf-dbus does on the ipaq |
| 14:38.08 | pb_ | right. |
| 14:38.52 | pb_ | mallum: by the way, would it be difficult to make the matchbox compositing manager do the right thing with argb32 windows? It seems to be ignoring the alpha channel at the moment, so my popups all appear inside black rectangles. |
| 14:40.24 | mallum | pb_: yeah matchbox dont handle argb windows yet |
| 14:41.25 | pb_ | ok. It's not a big deal, I guess I can use xcompmgr. |
| 14:41.46 | mallum | pb_: you'll probably want to use another window manager as well ... |
| 14:41.58 | pb_ | Why's that? |
| 14:42.32 | paul | hi pb_ |
| 14:42.38 | pb_ | paul: g'day! |
| 14:42.48 | paul | pb_: how are you? |
| 14:43.12 | pb_ | paul: pretty good. what's the news with you? |
| 14:43.41 | paul | pb_: finally gotten round to squishing gpe-irc bugs.. might have a glib question for you. |
| 14:43.52 | pb_ | ah, excellent! |
| 14:43.54 | paul | pb_: i had RMS asking me why libgpewidget is LGPL. |
| 14:44.26 | pb_ | paul: ah, heh. originally it was GPL, but Nils asked me to change it to LGPL. |
| 14:44.33 | paul | pb_: yeah, apart from those two buttons and a weird g_io_channel assert its stable. |
| 14:44.37 | mallum | paul: did you say 'well we were considering a BSD/MIT license...' |
| 14:44.39 | paul | the buttons i might just rip out. |
| 14:44.52 | paul | mallum: LOL - why didnt i think of that :) |
| 14:45.23 | pb_ | paul: right. which buttons are these? |
| 14:45.44 | paul | pb_: the smiley button and the 'often used phrases' button. |
| 14:45.51 | paul | havnt looked at those yet. |
| 14:45.53 | pb_ | ah, ok. yes, I'd just remove those. |
| 14:46.05 | pb_ | mallum: why do you think I should use a different window manager? |
| 14:46.23 | mallum | pb_: because xcompmgr doesn't work very well with matchbox |
| 14:46.32 | pb_ | ah. what's the problem? |
| 14:46.37 | paul | pb_: yeah, i'm basically ripping out anything that is dodgy, eg, the dictionary lookup thingy, i fixed it so it doesnt crash, but it doesnt work so i might just rip it out altogether. |
| 14:46.47 | pb_ | paul: righto, sounds best. |
| 14:46.56 | pb_ | not much point keeping it if it doesn't work. |
| 14:47.34 | paul | pb_: anyway, here's a good one: g_io_channel's, why would you get "assertion `channel->is_readable' failed" if you had just been notified of an G_IO_IN event on that channel? |
| 14:48.17 | pb_ | sounds freaky. let me have a look. |
| 14:48.25 | paul | thats basically the only serious problem with it and i cant figure out what its about. |
| 14:48.32 | paul | i've tried unref'ing the channel, |
| 14:48.35 | paul | shutting it down |
| 14:48.36 | mallum | pb_: it trys to alpha blend the entire window stack, uses a load of fp in the shadow generation, duplicates alot of thw work mb is already doing and argb windows still wont work unless overide redirect as matchbox needs to understand argb windows |
| 14:48.53 | paul | shutdown + unref.... set_autoclose on last unref + unref. |
| 14:48.54 | paul | no joy. |
| 14:49.37 | paul | pb_: nb: i'm getting this assert on fedora core 1. (not familiar) |
| 14:50.02 | pb_ | mallum: ok, thanks. right now, the only argb32 windows that I really care about are override redirect. I'll have to experiment and see how bad the other problems are. |
| 14:50.31 | paul | (so gtk version might be different, its gtk2-2.2.4-5.1 - but that could be patched by RH) |
| 14:50.46 | pb_ | mm, right. I think familiar is still on 2.2.3 or o. |
| 14:50.49 | pb_ | or so, rather |
| 14:52.22 | paul | pb_: i'm starting to think that either g_io_channel is something evil or there's a subtle bug somewhere. |
| 14:52.44 | paul | (ie i'm leaving my options open :) ) |
| 14:52.54 | pb_ | heh |
| 14:53.07 | mallum | pb_: override redirects are evil - what do you need them for ? |
| 14:58.16 | paul | pb_: http://hibernia.jakma.org/~paul/gpe-irc.diff |
| 14:58.19 | paul | pb_: rough patch so far |
| 14:59.03 | paul | pb_: its asserting in g_io_channel_read_line_string() in irc_server_in() (you can see in it that patch) |
| 15:06.13 | robin_ | does somebody know how many MIPS a pxa255 @400mhz got ? |
| 15:14.03 | *** join/#gpe pattieja (~pattieja@63-252-5-1.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 15:15.03 | pattieja | morning |
| 15:15.28 | mallum | hey pattieja |
| 15:19.41 | pb_ | paul: looking at the code, it seems that ->is_readable just reflects the direction flags that the channel was opened with, rather than the instantaneous state of data availability. |
| 15:20.03 | pb_ | paul: so that would suggest that you've selected for IN events on a nominally write-only channel. |
| 15:20.50 | pb_ | mallum: Several of the gpe applications use override redirect popup windows. I think minibat, gpe-what and startup-monitor all do that, for example. |
| 15:21.54 | mallum | pb_: they shouldn't need to be |
| 15:21.55 | paul | pb_: right, but that function, irc_server_in, is a g_io watch handler for G_IO_IN.. its getting called, i'd have thought (as did original author), because an IN event called. |
| 15:22.31 | paul | pb_: and the channel struct is supposed to be opaque - so i shouldnt really test that directly. |
| 15:22.47 | paul | pb_: oh.. hang on. |
| 15:22.51 | paul | pb_: hmm.. |
| 15:23.12 | mallum | pb_: also any window that is heavily shaped wont get a nice guassian shadow until kiethp adds some more funkyness to render |
| 15:23.44 | pb_ | paul: where's the channel created? |
| 15:25.16 | paul | pb_: irc.c::irc_server_connect() |
| 15:25.21 | paul | pb_: it should be two way really. |
| 15:25.55 | pb_ | right, yeah, I see it. |
| 15:26.40 | paul | pb_: immediately after it adds the watch for IN. |
| 15:27.00 | pb_ | paul: glib does: |
| 15:27.13 | pb_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:27.31 | pb_ | then inspects (fcntl_flags & (O_RDONLY | O_WRONLY | O_RDWR) to set is_readable and is_writeable. |
| 15:27.46 | pb_ | maybe you could spot that happening under strace. |
| 15:28.36 | paul | pb_: hmm.. didnt strace it. |
| 15:28.55 | mallum | pb_: as well as not needing to be overide redirect why do them apps need to be argb ? |
| 15:29.34 | paul | pb_: aha |
| 15:29.48 | paul | pb_: look at devhelp for g_io_channel_set_encoding() |
| 15:30.44 | paul | hmmm.. no. it mentions read-only, but thats only /one/ condition, drat. |
| 15:30.59 | paul | write-only rather. |
| 15:32.03 | pb_ | mallum: just so that they can have alpha-blended, shaped edges. |
| 15:33.17 | mallum | pb_: I know its very tempting ( I would very much like to do it with window edges for example ) but I would hold off on that for now |
| 15:33.39 | Disconnect | mallum: you serious about sending a laptop drive if I get gpe into OE? |
| 15:36.38 | mallum | pb_: I havn't added argb visual support to mb as how they work is not standardised yet, no toolkit has any support for argb wins as yet, it will be a very intusive bit of code to make them work that will become complicated to make shaped windows etc still work with no composite extension. This a coupled with the fact the entire composite api could change tommorow I've kept clear *for now*. Im still not 100% happy with basic co |
| 15:36.38 | mallum | mposite handling in MB. dig ? |
| 15:37.24 | mallum | Disconnect: sure, how big though ? |
| 15:38.20 | Disconnect | mallum: heh. its 30G now, so... (the bigger problem is the split - shrinkntfs or whatever it was won't give up more than 13G for linux) |
| 15:38.43 | mallum | Disconnect: can you get a pretty big drive for 100$ ? |
| 15:39.11 | Disconnect | lemme check, but I suspect not (mainly cuz laptop kit is amazingly overpriced) |
| 15:41.23 | Disconnect | looks like thats about a 10g drive. (I found space on a relatively beefy box, so its not a big deal. was just curious ;) ..) |
| 15:47.52 | pb_ | mallum: sure, that's fair enough. I would like to experiment with argb32 windows, but it sounds like I can maybe do that with a non-compositing matchbox and an external xcompmgr. |
| 15:55.26 | mallum | pb_: well ok but to be honest you'd be better patching matchbox. |
| 15:56.05 | pb_ | mallum: really? what you just wrote seemed like a fairly convincing explanation for why adding this to matchbox wouldn't be such a good idea. |
| 15:56.36 | mallum | pb_: well you'll have to duplicate alot of mb only code into xcompmgr to get performance ok on the ipaq |
| 15:57.08 | pb_ | ah. what kind of code is that? |
| 15:57.21 | mallum | pb_: so if your just experimenting it would be easier to hack matchbox. And if you come up with some useful stuff we can add it to the matchbox tree |
| 15:59.08 | mallum | pb_: and you can then write them apps without overide redirect windows :-) |
| 15:59.29 | pb_ | heh, true. |
| 15:59.54 | pb_ | though I seem to remember there was some previous problem (entirely unrelated to argb) that required them to be override redirect anyway. |
| 16:00.51 | mallum | pb_: Im pretty sure thats fixed now. If its not I'll fix it. I dont think its a good idea to 'fix' something broken by breaking something else ... |
| 16:03.14 | pb_ | mallum: why are override redirect windows such bad news? |
| 16:09.54 | mallum | pb_: because they do not redirect events to the windowmanager |
| 16:14.35 | pb_ | mallum: Yes, I gathered as much. But why is this a problem? |
| 16:18.06 | mallum | pb_: well because you basically subvert the window manager |
| 16:18.46 | mallum | pb_: the window manager cant manage windows it dont know about |
| 16:20.23 | pb_ | true, but these are all transient windows that I don't especially want to be managed. just like, say, a pop-up menu. |
| 16:24.02 | mallum | one sec |
| 16:33.20 | mallum | pb_: sure. except I dont know if you manaually want to keep your wins always on top, obscure window decoration controls etc . pop up menus dont usually do that, all they normally have a parent window application |
| 16:35.46 | mallum | s/all/also/ |
| 16:42.31 | mallum | pb_: hmm yep, minihelp seems broken in that you can display the help for one application, then switch to another and the help is still there - not making much sense |
| 16:45.51 | mallum | pb_: startup notify obscures window controls and/or a north dock - a think a better way for this to work would be for it to appear in the panel and then dissable - it will be more visible and not block controls that way |
| 16:48.57 | mallum | pb_: you could even put a small extra panel in the titlebar and have it dock/undock there |
| 16:58.19 | mallum | pb_: are you there ? |
| 17:31.56 | pb_ | mallum: sorry, I was in a meeting. I'm back now, but only for about two minutes. |
| 17:32.34 | mallum | pb_: okey np |
| 17:33.10 | mallum | pb_: I wpnt be here much longer either |
| 17:35.33 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, we've discussed the idea of putting startup-monitor into the dock a few times in the past. I've never been all that keen on this idea. Although it does obscure window tools, it's not on the screen for very long so I don't think it will be much of a problem. |
| 17:36.19 | pb_ | Nobody's actually complained about it, at any rate. |
| 17:36.27 | mallum | pb_: yeah I think just putting it in the panel is neater solution. Another alternative is change the invisable cursor to a busy one |
| 17:37.01 | mallum | pb_: I dont think its a massive problem. just seems a bit messy |
| 17:37.38 | mallum | pb_: maybe we should ask tigert what he thinks |
| 17:38.59 | mallum | pb_: also is the icon it uses themeable ? |
| 17:46.41 | pb_ | yup, we could do that. |
| 17:47.01 | pb_ | I'm not sure offhand where it gets its icon from. If it uses the gpe icon loader it should be themeable; if it doesn't then it probably isn't. |
| 17:49.41 | florian_kc | bbl |
| 17:50.42 | moray | I don't like the idea of changing the cursor to show business on a touchscreen like the ipaq's - you'll just end up with it in the way of something, and can't move it out the way without clicking. |
| 18:00.39 | *** join/#gpe destroyer (~destroyer@061.a.002lg.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 18:39.02 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@pD9E5F58C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:39.08 | florian | re |
| 18:55.42 | mallum | moray: yeah I agree, I like the panel idea much better |
| 18:56.10 | mallum | moray: ( but on a desktop system that is what happens ) |
| 19:18.51 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@cpc2-cmbg4-3-0-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:20.58 | pb_ | re |
| 19:21.39 | florian | hmm... my mozilla still dies if i try to print... |
| 19:21.45 | florian | pb_: wb |
| 19:25.14 | pb_ | phew, I'm reunited with my h5000 at last. |
| 19:26.38 | florian | ah cool :-) |
| 19:28.48 | pb_ | I would offer to test the latest prismstumbler, but I'm still separated from my AP so it would be a rather useless test. |
| 19:29.09 | pb_ | well, I guess I could go war-walking in the village, but it's cold and wet so this would not be so much fun. |
| 19:31.36 | florian | Hmm, sounds like a good idea... well if "iwlist scanning" works on it then prismstumbler should work as well... i think an other device in ad-hoc mode should show up too... |
| 19:32.16 | pb_ | okay, excellent. |
| 19:34.25 | florian | At least i had some devices indicating they are in "ad-hoc" mode yesterday... |
| 19:34.49 | pb_ | Righto. |
| 19:34.59 | pb_ | I should add SIOCSIWSCAN support to the Berlios driver, too. |
| 19:35.29 | pb_ | I think switching back to the atmelwlandriver was a mistake. |
| 19:35.56 | florian | I tested it with hostap and a D-Link DCF-660W... |
| 19:36.49 | pb_ | right. |
| 19:48.11 | *** join/#gpe BBrox (~ulmer@bbrox.org) |
| 20:10.42 | paul | florian: btw.. if you run gpe-aerial, how do you get back your original config :) |
| 20:10.58 | paul | florian: when you switch off scanner it'd be nice if it restored settings. |
| 20:11.10 | *** join/#gpe elephantum (~andy@194.67.67.194) |
| 20:11.42 | elephantum | evening |
| 20:11.45 | pb_ | hello elephantum |
| 20:12.22 | elephantum | hi pb_ =) |
| 20:12.55 | pb_ | elephantum: did you make any progress with syncing yet? I plan to start work on that next week. |
| 20:13.37 | elephantum | pb_: sure I have some. =) |
| 20:13.44 | pb_ | great! |
| 20:14.24 | florian | paul: ok, that's true... i'll try to keep this in mind.... |
| 20:14.25 | elephantum | pb_: at first. I had auth worked. except complicated one |
| 20:14.41 | florian | hi elephantum |
| 20:16.35 | elephantum | florian: hi =) |
| 20:17.15 | elephantum | pb_: and I think that libschedule should be rewritten a little to make transparent access through network |
| 20:18.03 | elephantum | pb_: and libcontactdb should be created |
| 20:18.14 | pb_ | yes, jamey was asking for a libcontactdb also. |
| 20:18.58 | elephantum | pb_: but for now we cannot use libschedule and libtododb with nsqld |
| 20:19.47 | pb_ | what needs to change? |
| 20:19.50 | elephantum | pb_: because it uses sqlite functions directly, and sqlite cannot be used over network connection |
| 20:20.01 | pb_ | ah, right, ok. |
| 20:20.09 | pb_ | I wasn't really expecting that a sync program would want to use those libraries, to be honest. |
| 20:20.20 | pb_ | We could certainly add network awareness though. |
| 20:21.06 | elephantum | pb_: I think that we sure should use this libraries instead of writing them once again |
| 20:21.35 | pb_ | elephantum: possibly, though I don't think that the API they currently expose would be all that useful for a sync program. |
| 20:21.43 | pb_ | I guess we could enhance it. |
| 20:22.09 | elephantum | pb_: may be. |
| 20:23.14 | pb_ | Would you like to check in the code that you have so far, so that I can see it? |
| 20:23.43 | elephantum | pb_: hm... I should see where I kept it. it was long ago before exams started |
| 20:24.03 | elephantum | pb_: btw, I have no developer account on handhelds cvs |
| 20:24.59 | pb_ | would you like me to create one? |
| 20:25.07 | elephantum | pb_: for now I have a lot of free time, so we can make a little roadmap of developing. |
| 20:25.23 | florian | ohh |
| 20:25.29 | elephantum | pb_: that would be nice. |
| 20:25.40 | pb_ | elephantum: OK. What username would you like? |
| 20:25.45 | pb_ | florian: don't we all! |
| 20:25.46 | elephantum | pb_: el |
| 20:25.50 | pb_ | righto |
| 20:26.18 | pb_ | elephantum@dezcom.mephi.ru, right? |
| 20:26.23 | elephantum | sure |
| 20:26.51 | florian | :-)) |
| 20:27.12 | pb_ | elephantum: ok, it's created. The robot may take a while to do its thing, but you should eventually receive an email from admin.handhelds.org. |
| 20:27.28 | elephantum | pb_: oh, that`s good |
| 20:27.31 | pb_ | It could take up to a couple of hours, because the admin scripts are somewhat broken. |
| 20:28.28 | elephantum | pb_: in any way I should go to sleep soon =) |
| 20:28.28 | pb_ | Once you receive that mail, you need to follow the instructions to add an SSH key so that you can log in and access CVS. |
| 20:28.28 | elephantum | pb_: ok |
| 20:28.28 | pb_ | okay :-) |
| 20:28.30 | elephantum | pb_: then. let`s get back to syncing |
| 20:29.07 | elephantum | pb_: I can take a look at libs and make draft for network-transparent version |
| 20:29.39 | pb_ | excellent |
| 20:29.43 | *** join/#gpe Disconnect (~dis@3ffe:bc0:91:0:203:6dff:fe1a:c5b6) |
| 20:30.48 | elephantum | pb_: I think it`ll be good if you tried to know more about multisync part |
| 20:31.07 | pb_ | yes, I'll get back to looking at that very soon. |
| 20:31.41 | elephantum | pb_: I mean conception of work. and also found out what api do we need to add |
| 20:31.55 | elephantum | pb_: ok. then it`s good |
| 20:32.14 | pb_ | yup. |
| 20:32.34 | pb_ | I don't think any API additions are absolutely necessary, since a multisync plugin would have full SQL access to the database. |
| 20:32.45 | pb_ | It might be useful to provide some expanded APIs for convenience though. |
| 20:32.58 | elephantum | pb_: sure. |
| 20:33.46 | elephantum | pb_: also it could be necessary to extend database. for example to keep date of last changing of entry |
| 20:33.55 | pb_ | yes, indeed. |
| 20:34.09 | pb_ | I think that the calendar does that already, but the other applications may not. |
| 20:34.18 | pb_ | It's easy to add new tags to the database though. |
| 20:34.38 | elephantum | pb_: I know ) I played much wit sqlite. |
| 20:34.54 | elephantum | pb_: and gpe databases |
| 20:34.58 | pb_ | right |
| 20:36.52 | elephantum | oh... I feel encouraged now =) |
| 20:37.10 | elephantum | gotta do something useful =) |
| 20:37.47 | pb_ | :-) |
| 20:43.02 | elephantum | yeah. and all gpe developers should think about documentation |
| 20:43.47 | elephantum | it would be nice to have some docs in doxygen format |
| 20:43.49 | pb_ | true enough. |
| 20:44.26 | elephantum | then it`s easy to start. just write a little doc before writiting function, and that`s all |
| 20:44.44 | elephantum | or data structure |
| 20:45.31 | florian | oh yes, very true... i think this is my next step after making some missing things work... |
| 20:48.05 | pb_ | florian: my hero! |
| 20:49.01 | florian | But i think next step is to make gpe-package at least a little bit useful. |
| 20:50.19 | elephantum | florian: and what gpe-package should do? |
| 20:51.14 | florian | elephantum: Providing a frontend for ipkg... or better it uses libipkg to become an real alternative to ipkg. |
| 20:52.15 | elephantum | florian: ah... that`s how this prog is called |
| 20:52.27 | elephantum | florian: I wanted to patch it recently =) |
| 20:52.48 | florian | yeah... and there is a document describing libipkg :-)) |
| 20:53.07 | florian | elephantum: great idea... what do you intend to change?! |
| 20:54.04 | elephantum | florian: I wanted to add list of installed packages that could be used when deleting something |
| 20:54.38 | florian | elephantum: this sounds like a good idea... |
| 20:54.53 | elephantum | florian: that IS good idea =) |
| 20:55.18 | pb_ | florian: good thinking! elephantum, what are your coordinates? |
| 20:55.30 | florian | maybe i should think about an interface for ipkg's nasty configuration... |
| 20:55.40 | florian | ...first |
| 20:55.44 | elephantum | pb_: err... what coordinates? in real life? |
| 20:55.46 | pb_ | florian: I don't think there should be much need for users to touch the configuration. |
| 20:55.50 | pb_ | florian: except for adding sources, maybe. |
| 20:56.24 | pb_ | elephantum: yes, so that we can add you to cmarqu's eleet map. |
| 20:56.27 | florian | pb_: exactly... maybe i should introduce a seperate file for this. |
| 20:56.30 | pb_ | http://gpe.handhelds.org/images/people_eu.png, or whatever |
| 20:56.57 | moray | looks like no one's regenerated the bitmap for a while |
| 20:57.02 | elephantum | wow... never saw it before =) |
| 20:57.12 | pb_ | moray: yah, I was just thinking that. do you have the ski11z to do so? |
| 20:57.32 | elephantum | hmm... I live in Moscow. Russia. |
| 20:58.00 | florian | ok, this should be easy to find :-) |
| 20:58.18 | elephantum | florian: sure =) |
| 20:58.44 | moray | pb_: looks like there are instructions there, in which case I suspect I can manage it |
| 20:58.53 | pb_ | moray: ah, excellent. |
| 21:00.08 | moray | elephantum: er, choose one of http://webapps.getty.edu/vow/TGNServlet?nation=russia&english=Y&find=moscow&place=&page=1 |
| 21:02.50 | elephantum | I choose this one http://webapps.getty.edu/vow/TGNFullDisplay?find=moscow&place=&nation=russia&prev_page=1&english=Y&subjectid=7018215 |
| 21:02.52 | elephantum | =) |
| 21:09.18 | pb_ | florian: I'm toying with the idea of adding linphone and minimo to the h3900 bootstrap images. Do you think this would be a good idea? |
| 21:17.56 | *** join/#gpe paul_ (~paul@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 21:21.33 | florian | pb_: My experience with this two pieces of software is very low... how large is latest minimo? |
| 21:21.45 | pb_ | florian: extremely large |
| 21:21.47 | pb_ | let me check |
| 21:22.07 | pb_ | -rw-r--r-- 1 apache proj_fam 5024104 Jan 13 15:53 minimo_0.0+cvs20040106-0_arm.ipk |
| 21:22.54 | florian | phew... maybe it is a better idea to kick dillo developers ;-) |
| 21:23.08 | pb_ | heh |
| 21:23.24 | pb_ | yes, possibly. I can't understand why mozilla is so big, though. |
| 21:24.09 | pb_ | argh, I screwed up yet another debian upload. |
| 21:24.49 | pb_ | I really need to get to grips with dpkg-buildpackage. Choosing options at random doesn't seem to be a winning strategy. |
| 21:25.00 | moray | Strange that. |
| 21:25.18 | florian | pb_: if latest linphone is stable this might be a good idea... iirc it is not that large. |
| 21:25.36 | moray | Hm, xplanet 1.0 appears to in fact be a rewrite with completely different capabilities, options, and usage. |
| 21:25.38 | florian | hmm... i need to try this again :-) |
| 21:26.15 | pb_ | florian: no, it seems to be only about 200kb. |
| 21:26.47 | pb_ | oh, plus 120k of libosip. |
| 21:26.54 | pb_ | maybe that's small enough that it could even go into the h3600 images. |
| 21:28.26 | pb_ | moray: oh, I should do those uploads for you as well. |
| 21:30.10 | moray | pb_: ah, that would be good, yes. hopefully nothing will have changed to stop them building in the meantime... |
| 21:30.22 | pb_ | let's hope. well, we'll soon find out. |
| 21:30.29 | abhishek | pb_: how are the images generated? |
| 21:30.38 | pb_ | abhishek: using the make-busyboot script. |
| 21:31.50 | moray | pb_: at any rate, by now you can always complain at the DAM for the hassle I'm causing you while he delays in creating accounts ;) |
| 21:32.52 | pb_ | heh |
| 21:33.42 | pb_ | right. linphone is in, gpe-filemanager is out. |
| 21:37.34 | florian | ok, this seems to be a good exchange at the moment... |
| 21:38.00 | pb_ | yah. luc actually relegated gpe-filemanager to gpe-task-extra-apps some months ago, but it looks like he forgot to actually upload that change. |
| 21:38.50 | pb_ | I also removed the .desktop file for keylock, to avoid other people tripping over cmarqu_'s problem of accidentally locking the screen and not being able to unlock it again. |
| 21:40.27 | Disconnect | what happens if you run gpe on a gtk without libtiff support? |
| 21:40.38 | pb_ | nothing very exciting. |
| 21:40.52 | pb_ | I don't think any gpe applications use TIFF images. |
| 21:41.32 | Disconnect | rock on. :) |
| 21:42.52 | pb_ | fwiw, the only gdk-pixbuf loaders that we ship in the familiar images are png, jpeg and xpm. |
| 21:43.04 | pb_ | I don't even know if xpm and jpg are used any more. |
| 21:43.23 | Disconnect | but lets just try without it and see what happens. |
| 21:43.49 | pb_ | I don't have any .jpg files on my ipaq. Dillo might use it, possibly. |
| 21:44.16 | pb_ | actually, looks like dillo links directly to libjpeg. so I guess the gdk loader is redundant. |
| 21:44.23 | Disconnect | cool |
| 21:44.55 | pb_ | Disconnect: yah, you want to apply the patch from /cvs/gtk/gtk2/. |
| 21:49.18 | moray | elephantum: oh, do you have a real name for the team list? |
| 22:23.29 | *** join/#gpe Tyg-Upstairs (~me@CPE00045a265f64-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:23.34 | Tyg-Upstairs | Hello all |
| 22:24.05 | Tyg-Upstairs | Hi Florian, pb_ |
| 22:24.09 | pb_ | hi Tyg-Upstairs |
| 22:25.42 | Tyg-Upstairs | Anything exciting happening today? |
| 22:26.55 | Tyg-Upstairs | Some new unstable stuff, including an ipkg du jour |
| 22:27.20 | pb_ | yup. I uploaded a small collection of stuff too, and I'm just building some unstable7 bootstraps. |
| 22:27.45 | pb_ | nothing very exciting is new, but I wanted a fresh image to flash my 5400 with. |
| 22:28.08 | Tyg-Upstairs | at the risk of asking the obvious, what's detect stylus? |
| 22:28.45 | pb_ | it's the thing that figures out whether you're using a stylus or a mouse, and turns the cursor on or off as appropriate. |
| 22:28.56 | Tyg-Upstairs | ahhhh |
| 22:29.16 | Tyg-Upstairs | When would you use a mouse with GPE? |
| 22:29.41 | pb_ | seldom, but people have done it. |
| 22:30.01 | Tyg-Upstairs | I guess you could have serial mouse on a pcmcia/cf serial card |
| 22:30.04 | pb_ | (or a touchpad, or any other input device other than a touchscreen, really) |
| 22:30.20 | Tyg-Upstairs | true |
| 22:30.29 | pb_ | Tyg-Upstairs: yup, or a usb mouse on a usb card. |
| 22:30.35 | pb_ | or a bluetooth mouse |
| 22:30.46 | Tyg-Upstairs | ok.. more options than I would have thought.. |
| 22:30.59 | pb_ | or a remote xserver with a mouse, etc, etc. |
| 22:31.15 | Tyg-Upstairs | hey.. have you heard anything from florian on his progress with PrismStumbler? |
| 22:31.37 | pb_ | yes, it sounds like it should work on h5000 now. |
| 22:31.41 | pb_ | I haven't tried it myself yet. |
| 22:31.54 | Tyg-Upstairs | being at the client site with no IRC access isn't any fun.. I miss all the good stuff |
| 22:31.55 | Tyg-Upstairs | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:31.59 | pb_ | heh |
| 22:32.37 | pb_ | brb |
| 22:33.13 | Tyg-Upstairs | np |
| 22:54.01 | Tyg-Upstairs | BBIAB. |
| 22:58.17 | pb_ | oh, whoops, gpe2 depends on gpe-setbg2. |
| 22:59.18 | *** join/#gpe DebolazIT (~debolaz@rgbqi71.cm.chello.no) |
| 23:00.33 | *** join/#gpe wonid (~destroyer@097.b.001lg.syd.iprimus.net.au) |
| 23:17.50 | elephantum | moray: Andrey Tatarinov |
| 23:35.33 | *** join/#gpe jhodge (jhodge@63.170.71.30) |
| 23:37.04 | jhodge | Has anyone gotton sound to work on the ipaq 5400 running familiar? When I try to open the sound device I get "Can not open the mixer for reading". Anyone have any ideas on what I can do? |
| 23:37.54 | pb_ | jhodge: do you have the h5400-audio module loaded? |
| 23:38.34 | jhodge | I believe so, it is a fresh install. How can I tell? <--- kinda a n00b |
| 23:40.48 | jhodge | pb_: Would it be a modprobe command? |
| 23:45.29 | pb_ | jhodge: check with lsmod. if it isn't loaded, yes, use modprobe to rectify that. |
| 23:48.45 | jhodge | pb_: I get pxa-i2s 1128 0 [h5400-audio] |
| 23:48.45 | jhodge | pxa-audio 7736 0 [h5400-audio] |
| 23:49.20 | jhodge | pb_: I also get h5400-audio 2760 1 |
| 23:49.26 | pb_ | ok |
| 23:49.45 | pb_ | Which program are you trying to open the device with? |
| 23:50.00 | jhodge | pb_: The speaker icon on the taskbar |
| 23:50.28 | pb_ | Try the mixer in the "Other" folder on the desktop; see if that behaves the same. |
| 23:51.22 | jhodge | It retuens sound_mixer_read_devmask Invalid Argument |
| 23:51.40 | pb_ | ah. Which kernel version do you have? |
| 23:52.19 | jhodge | I have 0.7.2 |
| 23:52.52 | pb_ | Okay. You might need to install kernel hh36 from the unstable feed. |
| 23:52.58 | jhodge | I have other sound devices listed on the lsmod. Would you like to see them? |
| 23:53.04 | jhodge | Ahh I see |
| 23:53.52 | jhodge | Thats 0.7.3 right? |
| 23:56.12 | pb_ | No, not quite. 0.7.3 hasn't been released yet. |
| 23:56.22 | jhodge | pb_: I also have these listed for sound |
| 23:56.25 | jhodge | snd-pcm-oss 38996 0 (unused) |
| 23:56.25 | jhodge | snd-mixer-oss 11244 0 [snd-pcm-oss] |
| 23:56.25 | jhodge | snd-pcm 58116 0 [snd-pcm-oss] |
| 23:56.25 | jhodge | snd-timer 14164 0 [snd-pcm] |
| 23:56.25 | jhodge | snd-page-alloc 3512 0 [snd-pcm] |
| 23:56.25 | jhodge | snd-uda1380 5272 0 |
| 23:56.27 | jhodge | i2c-core 13752 0 [ak4535 i2c-algo-pxa h5400-audio snd-uda1380] |
| 23:56.29 | jhodge | snd 29176 0 [snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss snd-pcm snd-timer sn |
| 23:56.31 | jhodge | d-uda1380] |
| 23:57.43 | pb_ | jhodge: that all looks fine. |
| 23:58.11 | jhodge | pb_: werid. Why couldn't it open the device for reading? I am doing this in root |
| 23:58.37 | pb_ | I'm not sure. |
| 23:59.08 | jhodge | pb_: do you havethe link to the unstable version? Can I ipkg it to do the upgrade? |
