| 00:00.44 | pb_ | florian_: ah, hello :-) no, I don't think you broke anything, but pigeon was saying that the ipaq-sleep setup program doesn't properly remember which irqs were selected. |
| 00:04.16 | florian_ | pb_: looks like i need to start a longer hacking session... |
| 00:04.44 | pb_ | seems like the only option. |
| 00:08.51 | florian_ | night... |
| 00:09.01 | pb_ | florian_: night |
| 00:14.24 | mccarthy | Ha! i ROCK! |
| 00:14.32 | pb_ | ! |
| 00:14.37 | mccarthy | pb_: at seems to work nicely now :) |
| 00:14.44 | pb_ | Aha. |
| 00:14.46 | mccarthy | *with* the existing atd! |
| 00:15.14 | mccarthy | but we need to get the atd packager (Nils?) to erase his implementation of at and perhaps add a dependency on the at package |
| 00:15.15 | pb_ | You're right, you do rock. |
| 00:16.02 | mccarthy | well. I will rock more when alarms start working on x86 boxen ;) |
| 00:16.10 | pb_ | heh. |
| 00:16.43 | mccarthy | before that we need a new gpe-calendar package, a new libschedule0 package, and new at/atd packages....some work left to do, I guess |
| 00:23.40 | pb_ | mm, right. Oh well, it's a start. |
| 00:32.42 | mccarthy | later all |
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| 02:15.59 | Tyg_at_Meeting | Hey all |
| 02:18.16 | Tygger_Bob | florian_kc: Hiya |
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| 08:41.49 | pb_ | morning |
| 08:43.36 | Debolaz | moin |
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| 10:08.52 | mallum | hey Hallski |
| 10:15.00 | Hallski | hi |
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| 11:16.54 | adavey | morning folks |
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| 12:35.41 | florian_kc | hi all |
| 12:37.32 | Debolaz | hi |
| 12:37.44 | pigeon | Hmm, seems that none of the timezone from the timezone list in gpe works with Australia. |
| 12:43.42 | florian_kc | pigeon: oh, this is bad... i know we need a better solution for this :-/ |
| 12:48.31 | pigeon | :\ |
| 12:48.55 | pigeon | that makes me wonder how many people in au using gpe ;) |
| 12:50.02 | florian_kc | pigeon: hehe, well... they do it like me - they don't set TZ ;-) |
| 12:50.20 | pigeon | and just set the clock? |
| 12:51.28 | florian_kc | pigeon: someone needs to create a set of timezone definitions that may be installed with familiar. debian contanins a very huge amount of useless historical tz stuff that won't fit on an pda :-/ |
| 12:51.36 | florian_kc | pigeon: yep |
| 12:51.42 | pigeon | ah |
| 12:51.54 | pigeon | yeah, well that works, until i ntpdate it ;) |
| 12:54.03 | florian_kc | pigeon: yep, that's true... |
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| 14:53.19 | usual | can gpe be used on a sharp zaurus 5500 |
| 14:54.21 | florian_kc | pb_: hi |
| 14:54.29 | pb_ | hi florian_kc |
| 14:55.11 | florian_kc | usual: hello, yes this basically works... but at the moment there is no recent os image for zaurus containing gpe imho. |
| 14:56.22 | usual | florian_kc, I wonder if anything is in the works, as it stands now from what I have come across, the only GUI's are QT |
| 14:56.24 | mallum | usual: currently involves quite a bit of messing around, but it can be done. Think of it as an iq test |
| 14:56.36 | usual | mallum, gotcha |
| 14:57.32 | florian_kc | hehe |
| 14:58.11 | mallum | usual: someone needs to add gpe to openzuarus/openembedded or port familiar to support Z's for it to work well |
| 14:58.33 | usual | mallum, ok, it looks like a great project |
| 14:58.35 | usual | :) |
| 14:59.05 | usual | I will be getting my first pda/handheld(zaurus 5500) in the mail soon. So I am trying to scope out my options ahead of time |
| 14:59.08 | florian_kc | familiar for zaurus would be cool :-) |
| 18:11.52 | *** join/#gpe ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:11.52 | *** topic/#gpe is #gpe, not #handhelds.org | GPE: The GPE Palmtop Environment | http://gpe.handhelds.org | libgpewidget 0.73 uploaded to debian sid, time to get packaging | bootgpe2 0.7.2-rc3: http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0.7.2/install/ | issues for Familiar 0.7.2: http://handhelds.org/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=969 |
| 18:15.04 | mccarthy | hi ibot |
| 18:15.23 | mccarthy | rude bastard |
| 18:15.24 | pb_ | right, so my point was that atd should use the time as the job ID. |
| 18:15.26 | florian | pb_: not yet, but i'll try again later.... |
| 18:15.50 | pb_ | florian: okay, cool. |
| 18:16.01 | pb_ | it seems that one of my APs has blown up, which is a pain. I need to try to get another tomorrow. |
| 18:16.16 | mccarthy | pb_: we can make the ipaq's at/atd do whatever we want, but it doesnt get me any closer to using gpe-calendar seemlessly on my desktop :( |
| 18:16.46 | pb_ | mccarthy: oh, I see. well, on your desktop the problem with /var/spool/at getting wiped out presumably doesn't exist at all. |
| 18:17.18 | mccarthy | yes, and I had thought of hacing libschedule simply check what kind of box you are running, but that seems like a kludge |
| 18:18.44 | mccarthy | it might be best to simply add a table to gpe-calendar's database holds the at job id for the *next* event, so that if we are scheduling a new "next" we erase the old one |
| 18:19.34 | mccarthy | this would include, of course, the rescheduling done after a reboot (but the atrm would fail since there shouldn't be any other jobs there, especially not one which you have permission to erase) |
| 18:20.30 | mccarthy | this would work out OK, overall, as long as there was something else scheduling at events for your user *before* you logged in (and had the X11 scripts fix the gpe-calendar queue) |
| 18:21.06 | mccarthy | I mean there wasn't something else scheduling.... |
| 18:22.36 | mccarthy | hey I have an idea... |
| 18:23.10 | mccarthy | we add a table to gpe-calendar that only holds the at job id *and* the md5sum of the atcat of that job |
| 18:23.22 | mccarthy | we then only erase of the md5sum matches |
| 18:23.32 | mccarthy | that should work, shouldn't it? |
| 18:24.19 | mccarthy | "at -c 13 | md5sum -" for example? |
| 18:27.14 | pattieja | just reflashed GPE |
| 18:27.34 | mccarthy | pattieja: that sounds fun. using CF, I hope |
| 18:27.35 | pattieja | pb_: I noticed that the incessant logout/suspend occurs when the iPAQ is off-battery |
| 18:27.41 | pattieja | mccarthy: of course |
| 18:27.47 | pattieja | what other way is there? |
| 18:27.48 | pattieja | :) |
| 18:27.58 | pattieja | USB would have been nice, but alas... |
| 18:28.10 | mccarthy | well, my wife commandeered my CF card for the digital camera so.... ;) |
| 18:28.18 | pattieja | serial uploads ... nevermore ... |
| 18:28.24 | Tygger_Bob | hehehehe |
| 18:28.30 | pattieja | Tygger_Bob: ??? are you joking? |
| 18:28.34 | pattieja | :) |
| 18:28.45 | Tygger_Bob | never done it.. |
| 18:29.02 | mccarthy | Tygger_Bob: muy better |
| 18:29.03 | pattieja | Tygger_Bob: you're missing a lot of time, then |
| 18:29.54 | pattieja | i just did an ipkg update/upgrade, and the screen is still there (i.e., the bottom panel) but all the desktop icons went away, and all I have is the background 'g' hand picture |
| 18:30.18 | Tygger_Bob | yeah.. I think that happens when you upgrade the xserver or matchbox |
| 18:30.23 | pattieja | I also got something spit out on the ssh'd console |
| 18:30.39 | pattieja | ~ # ipkg upgrade |
| 18:30.41 | pattieja | Package=virtual-locale-pt, 2 matching providers |
| 18:30.41 | pattieja | Please select one with ipkg install or ipkg flag prefer |
| 18:30.51 | pattieja | did that package get updated? |
| 18:30.58 | pattieja | or do I still need to do what it says? |
| 18:31.12 | pattieja | Tygger_Bob: do I just logout and log back in? |
| 18:31.52 | Tygger_Bob | hmmm.. dunno.. I got that for gtk1.2, so I downloaded the package and installed it manually. |
| 18:32.15 | Tygger_Bob | You've done a kernel upgrade.. I usually reboot.. not sure what the proper practice is |
| 18:33.23 | pattieja | wow that reboots fast |
| 18:33.39 | pattieja | it dropped my ssh session almost the moment I hit enter |
| 18:34.46 | Tygger_Bob | hmm.. is there a working GAIM for GPE that supports the "updated" msn messenger protocols? |
| 18:36.00 | Tygger_Bob | or mayb Jabber for GPE? that would be cool. |
| 18:38.12 | mccarthy | mallum: what are the latest xsettings that matchbox understands? (I couldnt find them on the web docs) |
| 18:38.42 | pattieja | how come ipkg install doesn't spit anything out on the screen like it used to? |
| 18:38.51 | mccarthy | use -V 2 |
| 18:38.57 | pattieja | mccarthy: thanks |
| 18:41.25 | pattieja | :( |
| 18:41.29 | pattieja | no space left on device |
| 18:41.34 | pattieja | trying to install linphone |
| 18:41.36 | pattieja | :( |
| 18:41.48 | mccarthy | looks like you might be flashing again! |
| 18:42.04 | pattieja | mccarthy: why's that? |
| 18:42.14 | pattieja | if I run out of space, do I automatically need to reload? |
| 18:42.23 | mccarthy | usually |
| 18:42.26 | pattieja | I had 2MB free in the filesystem |
| 18:42.36 | pattieja | now only 200K |
| 18:43.22 | pattieja | should I only try getting the default linphone in the 0.7.2/GPE repository working (it's version 0.10.x; latest is 0.12.1) |
| 18:43.25 | pattieja | ? |
| 18:59.11 | *** join/#gpe ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:59.11 | *** topic/#gpe is #gpe, not #handhelds.org | GPE: The GPE Palmtop Environment | http://gpe.handhelds.org | libgpewidget 0.73 uploaded to debian sid, time to get packaging | bootgpe2 0.7.2-rc3: http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0.7.2/install/ | issues for Familiar 0.7.2: http://handhelds.org/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=969 |
| 18:59.41 | Tygger_Bob | hehehehe |
| 18:59.45 | Tygger_Bob | ok Ok... |
| 18:59.51 | Tygger_Bob | you win |
| 19:00.07 | pattieja | Tygger_Bob: none of this 30 - 40 minutes waiting just for the file to upload anymore |
| 19:04.38 | pattieja | uhmmm. Is there a graphical package manager? or do I just keep using ipkg? |
| 19:05.12 | pattieja | cool! external keyboard support! |
| 19:05.34 | pattieja | I don't recall that being so accessible in OPIE (unless they've added it in 1.0 and I just haven't seen it) |
| 19:06.43 | pattieja | why can't I remove gpe-task-games? |
| 19:06.53 | pattieja | something about gpe2 is dependent on that package? |
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| 19:08.06 | Tygger_Bob | you can remove it... |
| 19:08.17 | pattieja | Tygger_Bob: without affecting gpe2? |
| 19:08.23 | Tygger_Bob | you just have to do a -force-depends |
| 19:08.24 | Tygger_Bob | yep.. |
| 19:08.46 | pattieja | hmm. didn't free up any more space |
| 19:09.04 | Tygger_Bob | it's not much of a package, and by default, it doesn't take the actually games out. |
| 19:09.05 | pattieja | in fact, it decreased the free space amount |
| 19:09.09 | pattieja | oh |
| 19:09.32 | deekan | is there anyway to free up some internal flash memory because i only have .4 mb left and only 1 package installed, thanks |
| 19:10.05 | Tygger_Bob | pattieja: what PDA do you have? |
| 19:10.24 | pattieja | Tygger_Bob: H3670 |
| 19:10.25 | deekan | ipaq 3635 |
| 19:10.50 | pattieja | eww. only an extra 192KB freed up |
| 19:10.51 | pattieja | :( |
| 19:12.52 | deekan | or is there anyway to reinstall gpe without the serial cable? |
| 19:14.21 | pattieja | deekan: do you have a CF card? |
| 19:14.35 | pattieja | CF is by far the fastest/easiest |
| 19:14.47 | pattieja | once you have the bootldr in place, of course |
| 19:15.30 | deekan | pattieja: i do have a cf card, and running gpe right now, but i only have .4mb of internal flash left to save things on and id liek more space |
| 19:16.00 | Tygger_Bob | Ahhh |
| 19:16.46 | pattieja | what is figment? |
| 19:17.40 | Tygger_Bob | outliner |
| 19:18.24 | pattieja | Tygger_Bob: what does an outliner do? |
| 19:18.30 | pattieja | presentation kind of stuff? |
| 19:19.20 | Tygger_Bob | I think it's for making lists etc.. |
| 19:19.22 | Tygger_Bob | don't use it much |
| 19:21.35 | Tygger_Bob | pb_: a few days ago, you gave me this to make an image file of my current system: dd if=/dev/mtdblock/2 of=/mnt/had/flash.jffs2 |
| 19:22.06 | Tygger_Bob | I assume you meant /dev/mtdblock/1, as 2 is my second bank of 16 that I have mounted as home? |
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| 20:06.11 | mallum | mccarthy: there secret |
| 20:06.30 | mccarthy | mallum: oh good. I was thinking maybe I was dim ;) |
| 20:06.58 | mallum | mccarthy: they should be in the docs, but probably not as always in flux :/ |
| 20:07.07 | mallum | mccarthy: what did you want to change ? |
| 20:07.49 | mccarthy | mallum: oh, I dont know really...background perhaps? just wanted to know what *could* be changed really... |
| 20:08.57 | mallum | mccarthy: yeah xsettings unfortunatly doesn't make that infomation easily discoverable :/ |
| 20:09.35 | mallum | mccarthy: 'global look' can change about everything available - evverything thats 'safe' too |
| 20:09.46 | mccarthy | hmmm |
| 20:09.59 | mccarthy | I am not sure that Global Look ever actually changes my background :( |
| 20:10.36 | mallum | mccarthy: it should do, with latest unstable gubbins at least |
| 20:13.14 | mccarthy | ok. I guess it does. |
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| 20:26.37 | pattieja | how well does freeswan work with GPE? |
| 20:32.13 | florian | pattieja: Basically it should work, but this is not the job of GPE... we have the kernel patch in hh kernel imho. |
| 20:33.15 | pattieja | florian: how is it not the "job" of GPE? |
| 20:33.31 | pattieja | wouldn't a nice interface for managing PSK's/X.509 certificates be a "job" for GPE? |
| 20:34.07 | florian | pattieja: supporting IPSec aka freeswan... |
| 20:34.21 | pattieja | I was pretty much comfortable with using the command line to bring up and down the tunnels |
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| 20:34.41 | pattieja | florian: do you know if the freeswan package supports X.509 certificates? |
| 20:35.25 | florian | pattieja: yes, this - on the other hand - is very true. i'd have started a gui if i had more time to do so... i know and like ipsec :-) |
| 20:36.41 | florian | pattieja: i don't know, but x.509 support is only a matter of userland stuff. worst case we could use the debian stuff which definitely supports x.509. |
| 20:38.40 | pb_ | yes, that'd be cool. |
| 20:39.34 | mccarthy | pb_: did you ever hear my md5sum suggestion? |
| 20:39.47 | florian | before starting cool stuff i need a mozilla that doesn't die if is try to print something! |
| 20:39.55 | pb_ | mccarthy: no, I think I missed that one. |
| 20:40.05 | pb_ | florian: sounds bad! |
| 20:40.14 | mccarthy | well, I was suggesting that we implement a new table in the gpe-calendar database |
| 20:40.17 | pb_ | fwiw, the epiphany in debian unstable seems to be working ok for me. |
| 20:40.21 | mccarthy | the new table would hold two things |
| 20:40.42 | mccarthy | 1. the at job id of the most recently scheduled alarm event |
| 20:41.06 | mccarthy | 2. the output of 'atq -c [job_id] | md5sum -' |
| 20:41.22 | florian | pb_: it is... and i don't have an idea why this happens... it is just the recent mozilla in debian unstable. |
| 20:41.54 | mccarthy | then whenever we want to schedule a new alarm or edit an old one we first check that the md5sum matches for the old one and then erase it with the job id, otherwise we know something screwy happend and we move on |
| 20:42.08 | mccarthy | without erasing anything |
| 20:45.14 | pb_ | mccarthy: I think it'd be better just to do whatever is necessary to make atd on the ipaq produce unique job IDs. |
| 20:46.03 | pb_ | Then you wouldn't have to worry about another job having been scheduled with the same ID when you weren't looking. |
| 20:46.37 | mccarthy | pb_: we already have no trouble with alarm scheduling on the ipaq. I am trying to make gpe-calendar use at/atd *directly* so that alarms will work on other platforms |
| 20:47.53 | pb_ | mccarthy: right, but on other platforms job IDs are _already_ unique, so there should be no problem. |
| 20:48.11 | pb_ | From what I understand, the only reason you have a difficulty is that job IDs can be quietly reused on the ipaq if you reboot. |
| 20:48.19 | mccarthy | pb_: oh. duh. OK. I get what you are saying. |
| 20:48.34 | mccarthy | pb_: yes that is the main problem |
| 20:50.57 | pb_ | pattieja: maybe you'd like to investigate the freeswan situation and make a package with the x509 patches if necessary. |
| 20:52.06 | pattieja | pb_: I suppose I could try |
| 20:52.17 | pb_ | I don't think it should be very difficult. |
| 20:52.40 | pb_ | If you could package up a version that works with the 2.6 internal ipsec, and IPv6, that would be even cooler. |
| 20:54.10 | pattieja | pb_: haven't had any experience with builtin IPSec |
| 20:54.18 | pattieja | pb_: from what I have seen, though, I don't like it |
| 20:54.31 | pattieja | pretty much strictly from a firewalling standpoint |
| 20:54.31 | pb_ | why's that? |
| 20:55.23 | pattieja | because you no longer have packets being emitted from an IPSec "device". They suddenly appear coming from the normal interface and are not differentiable from other traffic (at least not easily) |
| 20:56.02 | pb_ | ah, I see. that doesn't sound so good. |
| 20:56.03 | pattieja | what freeswan provides is an actual device (i.e., ipsec0, ipsec3, etc.) just like a normal ethernet device (i.e., eth1, eth2, etc.) |
| 20:56.18 | pattieja | so you can match not only on traffic, but device as well |
| 20:56.31 | pb_ | Yeah. I quite like the freeswan arrangement of an ipsec0 tunnel device, though I've never been so keen on this funky shadow routing table that it keeps. |
| 20:56.32 | pattieja | and determine that this traffic definitely came down an IPSec tunnel |
| 20:56.44 | pattieja | pb_: shadow routing? |
| 20:56.47 | florian | That's true... this makes access control much easier... |
| 20:56.54 | pb_ | ipsec eroute, and all that. |
| 20:57.07 | pattieja | pb_: I don't know that I view it as a problem |
| 20:57.18 | pattieja | it kind of makes it nice an compartmentalized |
| 20:57.41 | pattieja | and I'm always checking the output of that command to determine if a tunnel is up or what state it's in |
| 20:58.05 | pb_ | mm, true. |
| 20:58.36 | pattieja | pb_: you can also use ' |
| 20:58.42 | pattieja | ipsec look' to get more info |
| 20:58.58 | pattieja | although I tend to find that it outputs more info than I want |
| 20:59.23 | pattieja | anyway, I can't get the freeswan ipk installed |
| 20:59.33 | pattieja | it says it wants awk but can't satisfy the dependency |
| 21:00.39 | pattieja | I thought awk came with busybox? |
| 21:01.06 | pattieja | yep. /usr/bin/awk is a symlink to /bin/busybox |
| 21:01.13 | pattieja | guess freeswan packages are old |
| 21:01.19 | pattieja | force-deps? |
| 21:01.22 | pattieja | :) |
| 21:08.27 | pattieja | that did the trick |
| 21:10.18 | pattieja | don't know how to get it running, though |
| 21:10.23 | pattieja | ipsec setup start doesn't work |
| 21:10.31 | pattieja | in fact it tells me that command doesn't even exist |
| 21:10.35 | pattieja | :| |
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| 22:55.31 | florian | Time to sleep a while... night all and have nice Christmas! |
| 22:55.47 | pb_ | florian: same to you :-) |
| 22:56.29 | florian | pb_: thanks, cu |
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