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| 01:33.15 | *** join/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 01:33.44 | nelson | Hmmm.... I notice that pb_ hasn't included gpe-aerial in his root image. |
| 02:31.02 | nelson | Weird. |
| 02:31.17 | nelson | ipkg gives me a nasty error when I try to install gpe-aerial. |
| 02:31.31 | nelson | void_list_remove_elt: ERROR: element not found in list |
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| 04:37.18 | jbett | anybody home |
| 04:38.39 | ryan_ | no |
| 04:39.52 | pigeon | I'm at work. |
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| 06:47.41 | florian | good morning |
| 06:47.51 | ryan__ | morning florian |
| 06:47.54 | pigeon | Good morning florian. |
| 06:49.41 | ryan__ | florian: whadda you know? |
| 06:56.29 | ryan__ | not much i guess lol |
| 06:56.35 | ryan__ | just joking |
| 06:57.17 | florian | hi pigeon, hi ryan__ |
| 06:57.54 | ryan__ | i have concluded that the asic on the 5xxx is f-c-ed in the head so to speak |
| 06:58.31 | florian | ryan__: not that much, only that i had a h5550 running with asic at full clock. |
| 06:58.45 | ryan__ | wow, howd u do that |
| 06:58.48 | ryan__ | was it stable |
| 07:00.27 | florian | setting a certain bit in... i'd ned to look at my other pc later. |
| 07:00.52 | florian | more or less, but no wifi and ts behaves not that fine :-/ |
| 07:01.30 | pigeon | Anyone knows anything about time.h and linux/time.h conflicts? |
| 07:01.44 | ryan__ | florian: how do you initialise wifi on the 5400? do you kow |
| 07:01.50 | ryan__ | i have the at76c503 module installed |
| 07:01.59 | ryan__ | and have modprobed it... but what next |
| 07:04.21 | florian | ryan__: i think you need to start ohci first, but there was a detailed description on ipaq mailinglist i think... |
| 07:04.32 | ryan__ | oh |
| 07:04.42 | ryan__ | do you still happen to have a link ? |
| 07:06.42 | florian | i didn't try for some days... maybe i'll have some time to check this later |
| 07:07.33 | ryan__ | oh i loaded the usb-ohci-5400 but, should the ligth come on? |
| 07:08.32 | florian | hm... very good question, i'm not sure if this is implemented yet |
| 07:09.12 | ryan__ | ahh ok so it might be up, but no indication? |
| 07:09.25 | ryan__ | any tools come with it, to say scan for networks |
| 07:10.35 | florian | nope, usually not - i'm not sure if this chipset has a kind of scanning or monitor mode. |
| 07:10.58 | ryan__ | florian: oh - so how can i tell if its working? |
| 07:11.12 | ryan__ | and more the point, how would i join a wireless network |
| 07:20.29 | florian | ryan__: from command line use iwconfig to set up the wireless stuff (at least essid to "any" and mode to "managed") |
| 07:21.36 | florian | ryan__: it should aautomatically connect to a wireless lan that allows it to connect |
| 07:22.04 | florian | ryan__: in this case iwconfig will tell you it's essid and link quality |
| 07:22.18 | ryan__ | florian: ok ill give it a go |
| 07:24.11 | florian | :-) |
| 07:24.25 | ryan__ | cool |
| 07:24.36 | ryan__ | iwconfig has made a wlan0 interface |
| 07:26.11 | florian | ok, having wlan0 is the first step - this shows all drivers should be there |
| 07:26.18 | ryan__ | roger that |
| 07:26.34 | ryan__ | i ran 'ifconfig wlan0 ip_address' |
| 07:26.41 | ryan__ | and it now shows up in ifconfig |
| 07:26.42 | ryan__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:27.33 | florian | ok, but without an accesspoint in range further testing is not that funny ;-o |
| 07:27.50 | ryan__ | lol yeah |
| 07:28.19 | ryan__ | hey, just off topic kind of, is it possible to access the internet using ipv6? are any isp's supporting it? |
| 07:28.42 | florian | If you have a pc with wireless lan card you could try with both devices in ad-hoc mode, but you'd need to specify the same essid on both devices. |
| 07:29.20 | ryan__ | nah dont have that either |
| 07:37.32 | ryan__ | so 2 wifi devices can connect to eachother without the need for a WAP? |
| 07:41.27 | florian | exactly, more than that - it is possible to create a network with more nodes without an ap. |
| 07:43.20 | ryan__ | cool |
| 07:43.24 | ryan__ | ad-hoc yeah? |
| 07:43.50 | ryan__ | so if one computer had an internet connection, that would act as the gateway |
| 07:44.18 | ryan__ | and someone told me it worked like this... say the range was 50metres (its not but lets just say it is) |
| 07:44.24 | ryan__ | you could have: |
| 07:45.02 | ryan__ | gateway <- 49metres -> device <- 49 metres -> device <- 49 metres -> device <- 49 metres -> device <- 49 metres -> ipaq |
| 07:45.12 | ryan__ | and the ipaq could still reach the gateway |
| 07:45.17 | ryan__ | is that the case |
| 07:46.47 | florian | yep, sure |
| 07:47.45 | florian | not sure about that... i don't know if te devices i an ad-hoc group relay packages for each other. |
| 07:48.49 | florian | i think they don't - but it could be that hostap driver is able to do this... |
| 07:50.08 | ryan__ | that'd be really cool |
| 07:50.35 | ryan__ | but i dont think it would because the middle device wouldn know if the end1 device was in range of the end2 device |
| 07:51.51 | ryan__ | and if it repeated the packets, there would be excess packets floating around... and those packets would be repeated, etc |
| 07:52.31 | ryan__ | easiest way would be (assuming device locations were fixed) is to set the default gateway of each device to the next one in the line |
| 07:52.39 | florian | yep, sounds reasonable... |
| 07:53.29 | ryan__ | florian, sounds like you are in the IT industry... how much do you rekon a MCSE / MCDBA / CCNA should get as a wage (sorry this is off topic.. im about to sit the last MCSE exam thats why) |
| 07:54.23 | florian | maybe this works in bridging or repater mode of hostap, but i never tried this and maybe the repeating devices are not able to send own packages itself |
| 07:56.04 | ryan__ | you could get the network to triangulate the locations of each device based upon network strength and work out if it needs to repeat the packet, but that would be getting way to complex i think... especially if devices are portabel |
| 07:56.32 | florian | ryan__: Yeah, really not the right question for me :-) I'm not sure if industry is the right word... |
| 07:58.59 | florian | ryan__: I think this may be interesting for many jobs, but not for us - we have a small company that does software development on linux platforms and some small hardware projects :-) |
| 07:59.48 | ryan__ | oh i see, sorry i didnt mean specifically with you (didnt realise your line of work), just generically |
| 08:01.24 | florian | ryan__: Basically this is no bad idea, i'd personally prefer a Linux admin certificate, but i'm not sure if this is interesting for many companies to get a job :-) |
| 08:02.22 | ryan__ | florian: yeah i know what you mean about the linux thing, but im only 16.. will see what the future holds |
| 08:02.37 | ryan__ | im starting my CCNA too (and finishing MCSE / MCDBA) |
| 08:04.04 | florian | ryan__: This triangulation stuff should basically work, there was a guy on this channel some time ago wirting a software to do such things, but it is not that easy.... |
| 08:04.26 | ryan__ | florian: i know, i can beleive it |
| 08:05.17 | ryan__ | you would have do similar to the (forget the acronym) same thing that routers do with their routing tables, only with dynamic signal strength, and dynamically located devices |
| 08:05.35 | ryan__ | but, would be sweet as if you could do it |
| 08:05.59 | florian | ryan__: yeah, really... might be an interesting research project :-) |
| 08:06.13 | ryan__ | be good for implementing wi-fi in the streets, every light pole has a wifi reamplification module, and the nearby houses hook into the nearest light pole |
| 08:06.33 | ryan__ | be good, because there wouldnt necessarily have to be single points of failure |
| 08:07.13 | ryan__ | florian: I should patent it first ;) |
| 08:07.35 | florian | yeah, this souds cool... with a proper management you'd be able to create a real wireless network :-) |
| 08:07.45 | florian | ryan__: ;-) |
| 08:07.48 | ryan__ | ha, imagine cars driving down the streets with uninterruptable wireless internet |
| 08:08.27 | florian | heh, yes - but only as long as they stay in a town :-) |
| 08:08.57 | ryan__ | you could get it to automatically goto failsafe and re-route through your mobile or something |
| 08:09.07 | florian | yep |
| 08:09.15 | ryan__ | but for the CBD of a city it would be fine |
| 08:10.12 | ryan__ | and it would also be a great security aspect, for people who have committed crimes via wireless, you could track where they moved (as this would have to be accurate) |
| 08:11.12 | florian | This kind of projects are a reason to go to universty :-) |
| 08:11.25 | ryan__ | yeah - what subject would cover this |
| 08:11.39 | ryan__ | and how can i turn this idea into some income? ;) |
| 08:13.33 | florian | Hmm... here it would be a thesis project for computer science or electrical engeneering... |
| 08:13.34 | *** join/#gpe reenoo (~r@pD9E177FE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:13.50 | reenoo | hi |
| 08:13.55 | ryan__ | yeah i might do it as a thesis or something |
| 08:14.03 | ryan__ | yr 12 next year, then uni the year after |
| 08:14.06 | ryan__ | unless i take a break |
| 08:14.24 | ryan__ | and what better testing platform than a bunch of ipaqs! |
| 08:14.33 | ryan__ | running...... linux! |
| 08:14.56 | florian | Therefore you'd need some boring lessons in business management :-) |
| 08:15.01 | ryan__ | is that the sort of thing CRL does (this idea) |
| 08:15.08 | florian | reenoo: morning |
| 08:15.24 | reenoo | hey florian |
| 08:15.32 | ryan__ | hi renoo |
| 08:15.47 | florian | ryan__: yes, i think so - more or less... |
| 08:15.50 | reenoo | hey ryan__ |
| 08:16.11 | ryan__ | mmmm, they dont have an ARL (adelaide research lab).... |
| 08:17.00 | reenoo | florian: to find out about outstanding bugs I'd probably have to go for the unstable images, right? |
| 08:19.27 | florian | reenoo: yes, this is a good idea... or just update to unstable feed :-) |
| 08:19.44 | reenoo | florian: ok |
| 08:20.01 | florian | ryan__: but there should be some universities around :-) |
| 08:20.59 | ryan__ | hmmm let me get thru my sql exams before i think any more of this idea |
| 08:21.49 | ryan__ | and i just had a thought, it might not be practical, as you would need 3d triangulation, and would need 4 devices in range of eachother at a minimum |
| 08:32.21 | reenoo | florian: no luck? |
| 08:36.06 | florian | reenoo: not yet, looks like our sun specialist was wrong... it is not installed per default. |
| 08:41.24 | florian | no ldap server and no solaris cds... hell! |
| 08:42.15 | reenoo | florian: :( |
| 08:55.39 | reenoo | bbl |
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| 09:07.35 | florian | bbl |
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| 09:34.14 | florian | re |
| 09:34.34 | ryan__ | florian: my asic froze |
| 09:34.41 | ryan__ | and it felt warm |
| 09:35.02 | ryan__ | so i did cat /proc/battery and its showing 41.000 degrees! usually its 27 |
| 09:35.23 | florian | ryan__: the whole iPaq gets warm... warmer than a 38xx |
| 09:35.49 | ryan__ | sure does |
| 09:48.01 | reenoo | re |
| 09:48.17 | florian | reenoo: wb |
| 09:48.57 | reenoo | hmm... does gpe-gallery support automatically resizing images so that they fit on screen? |
| 09:58.44 | spung | ls |
| 09:58.46 | spung | erm |
| 09:59.08 | spung | is it me or dillo doesn't support UTF-8 encoded webpages? |
| 10:00.06 | spung | ibot: botmail for pb_ It seems dillo doesn't support utf-8 encoded webpages? wan't me to file bugreport on that? |
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| 11:02.55 | florian_kc | pierre: hello! |
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| 11:45.59 | pierre | hallo florian_kc.. |
| 11:54.32 | xav | Hi people |
| 11:54.45 | xav | ipkg often outputs that: |
| 11:54.48 | xav | Package=virtual-locale-pt, 2 matching providers |
| 11:54.48 | xav | Please select one with ipkg install or ipkg flag prefer |
| 11:55.12 | xav | ... what does that mean ? |
| 12:20.18 | florian_kc | xav: Looks kile some debug code from package selecor... |
| 12:20.30 | florian_kc | s/kile/like |
| 12:20.40 | xav | so .. harmless ? |
| 12:22.13 | florian_kc | yes, i think so - looks like current ipkg in unstable feed outputs some debugging stuff |
| 12:23.30 | xav | cool. that and the "void_list_remove_elt: ERROR: element not found in list" seem harmless then. thanks |
| 12:23.49 | xav | (I saw the latter in the list archives) |
| 12:26.03 | florian_kc | yes, looks like it is the same with that error message... maybe jamey knows about this... |
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| 14:21.48 | nelson | florian_kc: have you tried installing gpe-aerial on Phil's unstable root image? |
| 14:28.20 | florian_kc | nelson: No, not yet - is there a problem with it? |
| 14:46.53 | ryan__ | 'night |
| 14:47.21 | florian_kc | ryan__: gn |
| 15:04.55 | nelson | florian_kc: actually it was just a ipkg warning message. False alarm. |
| 15:08.54 | florian_kc | nelson: ah, ok |
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| 16:39.40 | reenoo | hey pb_ |
| 16:40.09 | nelson | pb_: hey there. |
| 16:40.10 | pb_ | hi reenoo |
| 16:40.21 | pb_ | nelson: g'day! |
| 16:40.35 | nelson | pb_: I tried unstable6. Not very unstable. :-) ipkg is spitting out some ugly warnings, but no real trouble so far. |
| 16:41.05 | pb_ | nelson: ah, excellent. Yes, I see those ipkg warnings as well (assuming they're the "ERROR: void_list ..." things). |
| 16:41.07 | nelson | florian_kc: I'm going for a nice long drive tomorrow and saturday. I'll run prismstumbler and we'll see how it does.... |
| 16:41.22 | nelson | pb_: yep.<nelson> void_list_remove_elt: ERROR: element not found in list |
| 16:41.41 | reenoo | pb_: can't get gpe-bluetooth to work :( what exactly does it try to do? |
| 16:42.13 | pb_ | reenoo: depends what you're asking it to do. |
| 16:42.14 | nelson | reenoo: it talks to the bluez package. gives you a gui interface for the cmd-line stuff. |
| 16:42.26 | pb_ | reenoo: left to its own devices, it will just sit there being an icon in the dock. |
| 16:42.41 | pb_ | do you mean it won't run at all? |
| 16:42.50 | nelson | pb_: hey, I think I may have found something related to the bootloader not finding the control file on CF. |
| 16:42.59 | reenoo | pb_: no, Connect PAN doesn't work |
| 16:43.16 | nelson | pb_: so far, on 2/2 of the failing CF's, the oemname has been garbage. |
| 16:43.23 | pb_ | nelson: Ah, yeah, I saw your note on the mailing list. Sounds encouraging. |
| 16:43.31 | pb_ | reenoo: what happens when you try that? |
| 16:43.52 | nelson | Yes, I hope I can hear from other people who have had this problem. Particularly Jason at MIT. He's always on top of things. |
| 16:45.22 | pb_ | Any idea what the code is doing wrong to cause that? |
| 16:47.22 | reenoo | pb_: now it crashed :) "hciattach died unexpectedly" icon disappears adding it again doesn't help |
| 16:48.14 | reenoo | relogin fixes that |
| 16:48.57 | reenoo | heh |
| 16:49.10 | reenoo | now it all works automagically |
| 16:51.16 | reenoo | btw... /etc/network/interfaces assumes there's a dhcpd running on the NAP box |
| 16:51.35 | reenoo | maybe there should be a note about that somewhere... |
| 16:51.40 | pb_ | oh, yeah. |
| 16:52.06 | pb_ | maybe we should have some kind of dialog for configuring that kind of thing. |
| 16:52.30 | reenoo | that would be nice |
| 16:53.48 | reenoo | and instructions for setting things up on the PAN box might help, too |
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| 16:54.16 | pb_ | well, that's not really a gpe function. one should refer to documentation for the software in use on the pan box. |
| 16:55.04 | reenoo | pb_: sure. but the thing is that I haven't found a comprehensive guide for that |
| 16:55.26 | pb_ | using bluez? I would have thought their web site should cover it, but maybe not. |
| 16:56.16 | reenoo | pb_: well. it's all scattered over various documents etc. |
| 16:56.37 | pb_ | ah, I see. |
| 16:57.23 | reenoo | found this after some googling: http://handhelds.org/pipermail/ipaq/2003-January/016527.html |
| 16:59.25 | reenoo | but it's slightly outdated (e.g. pand args have changed) and it refers to a "manual" (i.e. without gpe-bluetooth) configuration on the ipaq |
| 16:59.53 | pb_ | maybe you'd like to write a new, definitive guide :-) |
| 17:00.38 | reenoo | pb_: after some more experiments (PIN etc.) maybe |
| 17:02.19 | pb_ | cool |
| 17:02.27 | reenoo | and I need to get the rest of the hotplug stuff to work, so that hcid, sdpd, and pand are started when you connect the bluetooth device to the desktop |
| 17:02.56 | pb_ | On a desktop I'd just leave them running all the time. |
| 17:03.33 | pb_ | I don't think it's particularly worth the complexity to start them up and shut them down dynamically. |
| 17:04.54 | reenoo | pb_: the scripts are there... just have to give them a try. also, I doubt it that you'll have the bluetooth adapter connected all the time |
| 17:05.26 | pb_ | true, though they only cost a couple of hundred kilobytes of swap space when not in use. |
| 17:06.35 | reenoo | s/connected/physically connected to a USB port/ |
| 17:07.36 | florian_kc | nelson: ah, cool... |
| 17:07.59 | florian_kc | this reminds me that i have some further plans for prismstumbler... |
| 17:08.11 | pb_ | hi florian_kc |
| 17:08.15 | florian_kc | pb_: hi |
| 17:08.27 | florian_kc | pb_: du we have a problem with dhcp? |
| 17:08.38 | pb_ | not that I'm aware of. |
| 17:09.34 | pb_ | I take it that it isn't working for you? |
| 17:10.21 | florian_kc | I found this in log: dhcpStart: ioctl SIOCGIFHWADDR: No such device |
| 17:10.43 | *** part/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 17:10.51 | pb_ | ah. |
| 17:11.10 | florian_kc | I used it for wlan0, a wireless lan card using hostap... associated and working. |
| 17:11.34 | florian_kc | dhcpcd exits instantly after start |
| 17:11.46 | pb_ | freaky |
| 17:12.07 | florian_kc | yep |
| 17:12.33 | pb_ | any idea when that started happening? |
| 17:13.10 | pb_ | nilsf: any more news on bug 977? |
| 17:13.41 | florian_kc | hm no, i didn't use wireless lan/dhcp for some time |
| 17:14.01 | pb_ | I don't think dhcpd has changed in a long time. |
| 17:14.06 | pb_ | maybe you could try capturing a strace. |
| 17:14.19 | florian_kc | yep, wait |
| 17:26.10 | florian_kc | i think i found the problem... but i donn't know how and why... |
| 17:26.39 | pb_ | ah |
| 17:27.05 | florian_kc | pb_: Is it possible that the command line interface of dhcpcd changed? |
| 17:27.24 | pb_ | florian_kc: possible, but I doubt it. |
| 17:28.33 | florian_kc | pb_: I remember a time the interface to use was told dhcpcd by the parameter "-i" |
| 17:30.20 | florian_kc | pb_: Now it is set without "-i", like e.g. dhclient |
| 17:30.39 | pb_ | hm, right. |
| 17:32.28 | florian_kc | phew... i'm not toally confused :-) |
| 17:33.05 | pb_ | which program is adding this -i? |
| 17:34.57 | florian_kc | prismstumbler and with this gpe-aerial, but maybe more... the network scripts... |
| 17:36.32 | pb_ | strange. I wonder when that was changed. |
| 17:38.30 | florian_kc | It is possible that this is some time ago... |
| 17:41.34 | florian_kc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:41.34 | florian_kc | 11 Sep 19:41:10 ntpdate[1797]: no server suitable for synchronization found |
| 17:41.39 | florian_kc | oops... |
| 17:42.07 | pb_ | oh dear |
| 17:43.05 | florian_kc | looks like the hh timserver doesn't work... |
| 17:43.14 | pb_ | yeah, so it seems. |
| 17:43.22 | pb_ | best write to admin about that. |
| 17:43.28 | florian_kc | ok |
| 17:43.31 | pb_ | or file a bug against handhelds.org in bugzilla |
| 17:43.42 | florian_kc | :-) ok |
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| 18:13.18 | florian_kc | bbl |
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| 18:18.52 | *** part/#gpe CAMCAM (~camrein@AMontsouris-108-1-17-54.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:19.49 | reenoo | pb_: quote from http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/GPEBluetoothConfig "TODO: screenshots, setup of a PAN peer" |
| 18:20.02 | pb_ | aha |
| 18:20.58 | reenoo | screenshots of the bnep0 setup: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.19530.png http://handhelds.org/scap/port.30107.png http://handhelds.org/scap/port.2402.png |
| 18:22.00 | pb_ | cool |
| 18:26.17 | pb_ | bbl |
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| 19:15.14 | florian | re |
| 19:32.37 | nilsf | pb_: Just downloaded busybox 0.99.5-6 ... mompls ;) |
| 19:34.35 | nilsf | pb_: Sorry, cannot update busybox! |
| 19:34.57 | nilsf | pb_: ipkg complains: (lots of) void_list_remove_elt: ERROR: element not found in list |
| 19:35.16 | nilsf | pb_: And then Package busybox wants to install file /bin/busybox But that file is already provided by package <no package> |
| 19:35.57 | ade|desk | pb_: ping |
| 19:35.58 | florian | nilsf: Ignore this error messages, no idea where they come from... at least they don't matter. |
| 19:36.28 | nilsf | florian: But the subsequent "But that file is already provided by package <no package>" does prevent installation. |
| 19:36.42 | ade|desk | force package? |
| 19:37.02 | florian | nilsf: yes, this definitely does... looks like a corrupt database :-/ |
| 19:37.07 | nilsf | ade|desk: Maybe, but this in general means that something is broken... :( |
| 19:37.11 | florian | -force-overwrite |
| 19:37.42 | ade|desk | do we use bb ash as default sh ? |
| 19:38.05 | florian | i think so |
| 19:38.36 | ade|desk | is it preventing busybox to replace its self ? |
| 19:39.14 | nilsf | I think I see the problem... |
| 19:39.40 | nilsf | ipkg sais that all files of busybox are installed in /task-bootgpe2-0.7+unstable6-3600/ !? |
| 19:40.03 | florian | eh? |
| 19:40.15 | nilsf | I have no idea! |
| 19:40.26 | nilsf | The other packages seem OK... |
| 19:40.45 | nilsf | If I do "ipkg files busybox" I get this strange location. |
| 19:42.53 | nilsf | OK, after -force-* I have a clean install now. |
| 19:58.05 | nilsf | Umm... shouldn't /var be a link to /mnt/var/ ? |
| 19:58.14 | nilsf | Aeh .. meant /mnt/ramfs/var |
| 19:59.23 | ade|desk | yup |
| 19:59.44 | nilsf | Either the image is buggy or I freaked my FS ... |
| 20:36.40 | *** join/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 20:36.56 | nelson | florian: prismstumbler looks pretty good in unstable6. |
| 20:37.13 | nelson | florian: one question, though: what does the bar at the bottom where it says "signal 0" mean? |
| 20:39.24 | florian | nelson: It should show the current max sugnal strength... is it broken? |
| 20:39.39 | florian | s/sugnal/signal |
| 20:40.17 | nelson | No, it's just that it bounces around a lot. |
| 20:45.05 | florian | I started to do some major interface rework on prismstumbler... but at the moment i don't have that much time to finish it. |
| 20:49.18 | *** join/#gpe ade|home (~adrian@modem-1246.giraffe.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 21:29.56 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~deb-user@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 21:43.58 | pb_ | florian: excellent |
| 21:45.57 | florian | pb_: i hope so :-) at least that it works without breaking something |
| 22:29.24 | florian | night... |
| 22:31.18 | pb_ | florian: night |
| 22:49.26 | *** join/#gpe ryan_ (~ryan@eth195.sa.adsl.internode.on.net) |
