| 00:01.10 | Speuler | fc-cache seems te be very old (v1.02 where 2.x is available) |
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| 04:09.34 | dc_ | hey! |
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| 06:21.34 | florian | hi all |
| 06:21.55 | pigeon | good morning florian |
| 06:22.10 | florian | hi pigeon |
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| 07:21.29 | florian | nilsf: hi |
| 07:21.49 | florian | eh... nilsf? |
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| 07:40.28 | florian | bbl |
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| 08:00.13 | mallum | jg: hi |
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| 10:48.51 | loz | Hi. Is it possible to get GPE running on the Zaurus. If so, how? |
| 10:49.56 | mallum | loz: yes, add it to OZ buildroot |
| 10:50.18 | loz | mallum: that mean I have to build myself? |
| 10:50.42 | loz | or can I just remove packages from my Z and then install familiar feeds? |
| 10:51.37 | pb_ | loz: you will need a zaurus-compatible Xserver, but GPE itself is mostly hardware agnostic. You should be able to use the packages from the GPE 1.0 release directory. |
| 10:52.45 | pb_ | loz: adding a familiar feed to ipkg.conf is not a particularly good idea, because you may accidentally install some part of the Familiar base system that isn't compatible with openzaurus. |
| 10:53.01 | mallum | loz: you can do that, but thats like installing suze packages on a redhat system. things will break |
| 10:54.15 | loz | so all I need to do is get X running on my Z and then take the packages from GPE? |
| 10:54.41 | mallum | loz: for example, afaik the XServer packages from OZ do not work with gpe-dm without modification currently |
| 11:07.01 | florian | re |
| 11:07.14 | pb_ | florian: re |
| 11:14.56 | florian | pb_: what happened to the als modules in hh20? |
| 11:15.03 | florian | s/als/alsa |
| 11:15.29 | pb_ | florian: I didn't build them yet. |
| 11:15.46 | pb_ | normally jamey builds alsa and wlan-ng, but he's on holiday at the moment. |
| 11:16.08 | pb_ | I'm probably going to make a hh21 later today, and I'll try to build alsa and wlan-ng for that version. |
| 11:16.27 | florian | ah yes, i heared about that... soulds like they are build seperately?! |
| 11:16.37 | pb_ | yes, unfortunately. |
| 11:17.08 | florian | ah, any interesing news about the kernel? |
| 11:17.13 | pb_ | I'm not sure how difficult it would be to integrate them into the main kernel tree. Maybe that would be worth trying. |
| 11:17.49 | florian | wlan-ng is maybe nasty... |
| 11:17.53 | pb_ | No news of any great import. I've mostly been working on H5400 lately. |
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| 11:18.43 | florian | great... i think we'll get our 55?? this week :-) |
| 11:18.47 | pb_ | cool :-) |
| 11:19.20 | nilsf | florian: Don't want to disappoint you but I do not think so :) |
| 11:19.28 | florian | nilsf: no? |
| 11:19.53 | florian | nilsf: lunch? |
| 11:20.25 | nilsf | florian: They have the device available but not on stock. And then we have to pay in advance and this takes some time. Beginning of next week maybe... |
| 11:21.23 | pb_ | nilsf, florian: by the way, do you know where I might be able to buy a simpad? Now that GPE works on these I would like to have one for myself :-) |
| 11:21.41 | nilsf | pb_: :)) |
| 11:22.09 | nilsf | pb_: We'll have a look for you... will be ~300-350EUR (incl. VAT) |
| 11:22.23 | pb_ | nilsf: Great, thanks. That price sounds fine. |
| 11:22.49 | nilsf | pb_: Or if a T-Sinus pad would be sufficient they are told to be 199EUR. |
| 11:23.04 | pb_ | What's the difference between the T-Sinus and the SIMpad? |
| 11:23.20 | florian | oh wee... this reminds me that i took on to improve gpe support for these devices... |
| 11:23.29 | nilsf | pb_: They are both SIMpad's. There are AFAIK three models around. |
| 11:23.50 | nilsf | pb_: The SL4, the "big" one wih 64MB RAM, 32MB flash and PCMCIA. |
| 11:24.14 | nilsf | pb_: The CL4, the smaller brother, half RAM hald flash, no PCMCIA but DECT module integrated. |
| 11:24.37 | nilsf | pb_: And the T-Sinus pad which is a CL4 but with PCMCIA instead of DECT. |
| 11:24.42 | florian | I don't think the CL4 is that useful... not enough flash for an improved browser... |
| 11:26.02 | pb_ | nilsf: Ah right, I see. The SL4 is the model that sells for 300~350 EUR? |
| 11:26.20 | nilsf | pb_: Hopefully :) |
| 11:26.34 | pb_ | Okay, cool. That sounds like the device of choice. |
| 11:26.48 | nilsf | :) |
| 11:27.17 | pb_ | T-Sinus might be ok, but my experience with the iPAQ has been that 32MB RAM/16MB flash is somewhat limiting. |
| 11:27.29 | nilsf | Oh, BTW, I'll send this swiss guy a new card now. Could you send me a new label for the "old"? They wear off pretty fast... |
| 11:27.59 | pb_ | Ah right, yes, I'll sort that out for you. |
| 11:28.10 | nilsf | pb_: Perfect! |
| 11:28.27 | florian | nilsf: Third call for lunch! |
| 11:29.02 | nilsf | florian: Already!? |
| 11:29.47 | pb_ | nilsf: BTW, I just tried again with usb-storage on the c750, and now it seems to be working. I don't know what can have been wrong before. |
| 11:30.12 | florian | nilsf: ehh... it's 13:30 CEST |
| 11:30.34 | nilsf | I am currently designing a USB<->RS232 converter PCB using the FTDI232 chip... if this works it will be fun :) |
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| 11:33.15 | florian | PaxAnima: hi |
| 11:33.26 | pb_ | nilsf: ah, sounds cool. |
| 11:34.20 | PaxAnima | hi, florian |
| 11:36.09 | pb_ | PaxAnima: it seems that the source for minipredict_0.7_arm.ipk is missing on handhelds.org. could you upload it? |
| 11:37.00 | PaxAnima | pb_: sure, I'll do it later today |
| 11:37.05 | pb_ | thanks |
| 11:46.21 | Speuler | g'd morning |
| 12:38.54 | florian | hi Speuler |
| 12:39.17 | Speuler | grias di florian |
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| 13:02.05 | jsmanrique | hi! |
| 13:03.43 | pb_ | hi jsmanrique |
| 13:21.00 | Speuler | after doing ipkg update, then ipkg info, i can see the new gpe-conf all right, but trying to ipkg install gpe-conf gives "Cannot find package gpe-conf. |
| 13:21.00 | Speuler | Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update'" |
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| 13:30.43 | pb_ | Speuler: try "ipkg -V 3 install gpe-conf" |
| 13:30.52 | pb_ | or even gpe-conf2 |
| 13:32.25 | Speuler | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:32.26 | Speuler | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:32.26 | Speuler | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:32.31 | Speuler | Cannot find package gpe-conf. |
| 13:32.47 | Speuler | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:32.51 | Speuler | ah |
| 13:33.20 | Speuler | with gpe-conf2 the same |
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| 13:40.08 | pb_ | Speuler: hm, very strange. |
| 13:40.12 | pb_ | what does "ipkg info gpe-conf2" say? |
| 13:41.01 | Speuler | gives info on gpe-conf2, v0.1.0-pre6 241456 bytes |
| 13:41.20 | Speuler | says "installed" |
| 13:41.24 | Speuler | hmm |
| 13:41.34 | Speuler | did i ? |
| 13:41.55 | Speuler | only notices the diffs in ipkg info half an hour ago |
| 13:42.00 | Speuler | noticed |
| 13:42.18 | pb_ | ha |
| 13:43.45 | Speuler | haven't seen it downloading before the message "check spelling" came up |
| 13:44.21 | Speuler | if it did install, it did behind my back |
| 13:45.28 | Speuler | was exepecting to have v 0.0.6 |
| 13:47.23 | pb_ | v0.0.6 sounds like the old gpe-conf, not gpe-conf2. |
| 13:47.38 | pb_ | either that or a really old version. |
| 13:48.54 | florian_ | This sounds like a problem with the "replaces" statement in new gpe-conf. |
| 13:49.22 | florian_ | Recent version is gpe-conf 0.1.0-pre7 |
| 13:49.34 | pb_ | Oh, right, yeah. I forgot about that. |
| 13:49.44 | Speuler | that's what ipkg info says, yes |
| 13:50.05 | pb_ | florian_: it appears that gpe-conf and gpe-conf2 both Replace: the other one. |
| 13:50.17 | pb_ | ie gpe-conf has "Replaces: gpe-conf2", and gpe-conf2 has "Replaces: gpe-conf". |
| 13:50.20 | Speuler | ok. before ipkg update, state of gep-conf2 was "not installed" |
| 13:51.02 | Speuler | 0.1.0-pre3 |
| 13:51.20 | florian_ | ok... this may lead to some problems... |
| 13:51.56 | pb_ | florian_: right. I think if we just delete gpe-conf2 from the feed, it will work. |
| 13:52.13 | Speuler | oops.. missing the 0.1.0-pre6 - state of that one was "installed" |
| 13:52.21 | florian_ | 0.1.0-pre3 is from familiar stable... |
| 13:52.44 | Speuler | i started with "stable" some days ago, then did "upgrade" |
| 13:52.56 | pb_ | Speuler: please wait 10 minutes, then do "ipkg update; ipkg upgrade" again. |
| 13:53.03 | florian_ | pb_: yep, this is a good idea - i don't think this will hurt... |
| 13:53.14 | Speuler | you ppl are great :) |
| 13:53.39 | pb_ | florian_: okay, I've removed gpe-conf2 from unstable now. |
| 13:53.48 | florian_ | ok |
| 13:53.59 | pb_ | we'll have to wait and see what happens after the Packages file is rebuilt. |
| 13:54.11 | Speuler | 'll have a quick jump to the grocer's in the meanwhile |
| 13:54.34 | pb_ | I guess we could teach ipkg-make-index to warn about problems like this. |
| 13:59.31 | florian_ | hm yes, maybe a good idea for improving this |
| 14:03.14 | pb_ | now all we need is a volunteer to implement it :-} |
| 14:03.57 | florian_ | :-) |
| 14:30.13 | Speuler | re |
| 14:31.55 | Speuler | my c skills are rubbish. am more in asm, forth and the like |
| 14:32.36 | Speuler | last time i tried (implementing an virtual-machine based lang), somebody else changed my code all over |
| 14:33.36 | Speuler | guess he had twice the amount of work, comparing to doing at all alone :) |
| 14:36.48 | pb_ | heh |
| 14:39.44 | Speuler | 'm into low-level stuff |
| 14:40.32 | Speuler | bare plastic-and-metal :) |
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| 18:23.21 | nilsf | Hey... seems we are coming back to live .) |
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| 18:25.09 | nilsf | pb_: I have found several other bugs in the /etc/X11/Xinit.d/ scripts. Namely there are several string comparisons using "==" which does not work in a shell :) |
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| 18:27.31 | pb_ | nilsf: Aha. |
| 18:28.12 | nilsf | pb_: Those are responsible for the "[: == unknown operand" error yesterday... |
| 18:28.31 | nilsf | pb_: But still I cannot login if I have the alias for ls set in /etc/profile :( |
| 18:28.39 | pb_ | nilsf: Right. Which scripts are at fault? |
| 18:28.46 | pb_ | nilsf: Yeah, I should fix that run-parts thing. |
| 18:28.52 | nilsf | pb_: Damn, knew you would ask :) |
| 18:28.59 | pb_ | :-) |
| 18:29.05 | nilsf | Ah, that was easy: |
| 18:29.53 | nilsf | Simply add a line "run-parts $SYSSESSIONDIR" to the end of the file and delete the lines starting at "SESSIONFILES=$..." |
| 18:30.16 | pb_ | Great. I'll do that immediately. |
| 18:30.17 | PaxAnima | pb_: I don't have upload permissions for that directory |
| 18:30.55 | pb_ | PaxAnima: ah, I guess you are not in the gpe group. Please put the file somewhere else on handhelds.org, and someone else can move it into place. |
| 18:31.02 | nilsf | One of the wrong comerators was in Xinit.d/99gpe-login |
| 18:31.14 | pb_ | Ah, the AUTOLOGIN thing? |
| 18:31.35 | nilsf | The other one was in /etc/sysconfig/gpelogin |
| 18:32.19 | nilsf | pb_: BTW: The new version of gpe-bluetooth now offers pan to me! Maybe you should push this into a new familiar too... |
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| 18:32.53 | nilsf | What does gpe-login do after successful login? |
| 18:33.09 | PaxAnima | pb_: http://handhelds.org/~paxanima/files/ contains libdictionary.tar.gz and minipredict.tar.gz, with license files |
| 18:33.21 | pb_ | nilsf: fyi, jamey fixed the 99gpe-login problem in CVS on June 23, and I fixed the etc/sysconfig/gpe-login thing on July 9. |
| 18:33.32 | pb_ | so, the package in unstable should have these corrected already. |
| 18:33.35 | pb_ | PaxAnima: thanks |
| 18:33.41 | nilsf | Ouch :) |
| 18:33.48 | pb_ | nilsf: it runs /etc/X11/Xsession, which probably has the same run-parts problem as Xinit did. |
| 18:34.16 | nilsf | pb_: Indeed! |
| 18:35.51 | nilsf | pb_: Close, but not yet complete. Xsession was in fault too, yes, but I still cannot login :) |
| 18:36.10 | pb_ | nilsf: Darn! Hm, I guess maybe some scripts in /etc/X11/Xsession-gpe.d may be broken as well. |
| 18:36.35 | pb_ | Assuming run-parts doesn't abort on failure, the only one that really matters should be 99x-window-manager. |
| 18:36.57 | pb_ | nilsf: Does ~/.xsession-errors give any clues at this point? |
| 18:37.20 | nilsf | Nope. |
| 18:37.22 | pb_ | Alternatively, kill gpe-dm, start the Xserver by hand, su nils, and run /etc/X11/Xsession. |
| 18:37.34 | nilsf | 99gpe-calendar also has no "#!/bin/sh" header :( |
| 18:37.45 | nilsf | I suspect more... |
| 18:37.51 | pb_ | Oh dear. We can blame mccarthy for that one. |
| 18:38.11 | nilsf | And who for 10unsetgtkrc ? |
| 18:38.18 | pb_ | Ah, er, me. |
| 18:38.25 | nilsf | :) |
| 18:38.43 | pb_ | Actually, that file is probably not needed any more. |
| 18:39.03 | pb_ | It was there originally because gpe-login ran with a special .gtkrc set, and we didn't want the user session to inherit it. |
| 18:39.25 | nilsf | And 69ipaq-sleep ... |
| 18:40.15 | nilsf | Next is 70startup-monitor ... |
| 18:40.26 | pb_ | Darn, my fault again! |
| 18:40.52 | nilsf | ... 90keylaunch |
| 18:41.40 | nilsf | and last is -drums- 99xWindowManager |
| 18:42.05 | pb_ | Ha. |
| 18:42.12 | nilsf | And whistles please! Now it works :) |
| 18:42.17 | pb_ | Great! |
| 18:43.29 | pb_ | Well, I fixed 99xWindowManager and 70startup-monitor in CVS, and removed 10unsetgtkrc. |
| 18:43.41 | nilsf | Want the complete list? I have it in an editor and could email it... |
| 18:43.48 | pb_ | Sure, please. |
| 18:46.05 | nilsf | Oh dear ... Xsession.d/ is next to examine... stand by... |
| 18:46.26 | pb_ | Xsession.d isn't actually used by anything. It's just dead stuff shipped in the Xserver package, iirc. |
| 18:46.41 | nilsf | And broken... |
| 18:47.21 | nilsf | Either remove or fix it... or? |
| 18:48.03 | nilsf | Proper permissions and owners on that dir would also be nice ... |
| 18:48.15 | pb_ | nilsf: jg would be the man to ask, I guess. |
| 18:48.35 | nilsf | jg: Ah :) Jim, listening? |
| 18:48.48 | jg | pb_, nilsf: you rang? |
| 18:49.06 | nilsf | jg: Yes, master of the GUI server :) |
| 18:49.30 | jg | nilsf: yes... |
| 18:49.43 | nilsf | There are some problems with presumably old init scripts from the xserver package... |
| 18:49.57 | nilsf | By accident we found that many scripts lack proper #!/bin/sh headers. |
| 18:50.36 | nilsf | Above this, the /etc/X11/Xsession.d/* scripts do not all have a+x permissions and one is not owned by root (which IMHO it should). |
| 18:50.38 | jg | nilsf: sounds like simple things to fix. But I'm spending my time on getting a real X development server going now. Go ahead and fix what is busted.... |
| 18:50.51 | nilsf | According to Phil those aren't needed anymore anyway... |
| 18:51.18 | nilsf | OK Phil, what do you think? |
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| 18:51.31 | Soopaman | hello |
| 18:51.33 | pb_ | I just found http://handhelds.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=499 on that issue. |
| 18:51.42 | Soopaman | where can i find the latest screen shots for GPE |
| 18:51.56 | nilsf | Soopaman: On gpe.handhelds.org ? |
| 18:52.04 | Soopaman | are those recent? |
| 18:52.06 | pb_ | nilsf: I think they should probably be deleted, though the bug reminds me that nullxdm may be relying on them. I don't know whether I really care that much about nullxdm at this point in time. |
| 18:52.50 | nilsf | pb_: Could this be checked easily? I mean if nullxdm relies on them? |
| 18:53.53 | pb_ | nilsf: I guess a look at the nullxdm script would quickly reveal the truth. |
| 18:54.23 | nilsf | pb_: You have mail... |
| 18:54.33 | pb_ | :-) |
| 18:56.32 | nilsf | pb_: OK, I'll download and disect the nullxdm package after a coffee :) |
| 18:56.43 | pb_ | nilsf: Cool, thanks. |
| 19:11.23 | nilsf | pb_: Oh well... it start with /etc/init.d/nullxdm also having its own run_parts ... |
| 19:12.06 | pb_ | nilsf: Yeah. I think our Xsession script was originally derived from the same source as nullxdm, and Xinit was derived from Xsession. |
| 19:12.21 | nilsf | pb_: Seems so. |
| 19:12.38 | pb_ | It's always a bit embarrassing when mistakes get perpetuated like that. Ah well. |
| 19:12.52 | nilsf | pb_: And the nullxdm package brings its own Xsession.d directory with just one file: 65xstroke |
| 19:13.19 | pb_ | I think xstroke should be shipping that itself, though I have no idea if it does or not. |
| 19:13.41 | nilsf | pb_: And the nullxdm script does a run-parts on the Xsession.d directory. |
| 19:13.49 | nilsf | pb_: So yes, it depends on it. |
| 19:13.57 | pb_ | Right, that's as I suspected. |
| 19:14.43 | pb_ | We could delete Xsession.d from xserver and nullxdm, and rename Xsession-gpe.d -> Xsession.d to take its place. |
| 19:15.09 | nilsf | Hmm ... what is the reason for nullxdm? |
| 19:15.19 | pb_ | For people who don't like gpe-dm. |
| 19:15.25 | nilsf | Isn't it a GPE and everything else free X environment? |
| 19:15.34 | nilsf | Just to get rid of the DM? |
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| 19:16.04 | pb_ | Well, if you want a GPE-free environment, replacing gpe-dm is not really the right way to go about it. |
| 19:17.05 | nilsf | Indeed, there is a lot of GPE stuff in Xsession.d... |
| 19:17.33 | nilsf | Then I would think your suggestion makes sense! |
| 19:17.59 | pb_ | Despite the name, gpe-dm doesn't actually do anything specific to GPE. The way to get a "pure X" environment is to change the contents of Xsession{-gpe}.d, and most of that now comes from the individual packages. |
| 19:18.22 | nilsf | BTW First try of the USB interface did not work :) I messed up the layout pretty much... have to redo it later. |
| 19:18.32 | pb_ | Ah. Oh well. :-) |
| 19:19.38 | nilsf | nullxdm package is maintained by Jim. He just allowed us to change it. Shall we? |
| 19:19.52 | pb_ | Sure. :-) |
| 19:20.03 | pb_ | I need to go out for a bit, but I'll be back presently. |
| 19:20.12 | nilsf | Just a second... |
| 19:20.27 | nilsf | If I wanted to change it, how? I mean now I need to upload a source. |
| 19:20.46 | nilsf | And I suspect that there is no nullxdm in CVS... |
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| 19:21.40 | pb_ | Source isn't required for Architecture: all packages. |
| 19:21.57 | nilsf | Ah, cool! |
| 19:22.05 | nilsf | TNX, l8er then... |
| 19:22.22 | pb_ | Okay, cool :-) |
| 19:30.21 | nilsf | Perfect... nullxdm which consists only of scripts is of architecture ARM... |
| 19:34.22 | nilsf | Even more perfect... seems the package uploader forgot my ppg key :( |
| 19:34.37 | nilsf | s/ppg/pgp/ |
| 19:35.24 | nilsf | Oh, it didn't ... I tried the wrong feed :) |
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| 19:35.55 | nilsf | jg: There is a new nullxdm package now in unstable: nullxdm_4.1-23_all.ipk |
| 19:36.17 | nilsf | jg: I remove the Xsession.d directory and changed the architecture from "arm" to "all". |
| 19:36.37 | jg | nilsf: sounds good... |
| 19:36.51 | nilsf | jg: tnx :) |
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| 19:39.07 | florian | re |
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| 20:10.07 | florian | some souce packages will become tricky :-/ |
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| 20:36.22 | bobf | How would I cross compile a gtk app I wrote to run on gpe? |
| 20:38.33 | florian | bobf: There is a gtk2 cross-toolchain in nils homedir at hh.org. It has some bugs (needs some extra -l and -L parameters)... for an example Makefile using it look at gpe-conf or gpe-aerial |
| 20:41.12 | bobf | Just tried downloading it, but: The requested URL /~nils/gtk+-2.2.0-skiff-arm.tar.gz was not found on this server. |
| 20:42.22 | florian | hmm... let me see |
| 20:42.56 | florian | nilsf: http://handhelds.org/~nils/gtk+-2.2.0-skiff-arm.tar.gz |
| 20:43.10 | bobf | Not Found |
| 20:43.10 | bobf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:44.02 | florian | bobf: yep, just pointed nils (=nilsf) to this problem... |
| 20:44.26 | bobf | k, great. |
| 20:45.27 | florian | bobf: http://handhelds.org/~nils/cross-howto.html |
| 20:46.16 | bobf | *nod* I see that.. just need the tarball now. :) |
| 20:46.17 | florian | bobf: this is especially useful for compiling applications that don't like to be crosscompiled |
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| 20:47.31 | *** topic/#gpe is GPE Palmtop Environment | gpe.handhelds.org |
| 20:48.42 | florian | bobf: skiff-arm-cross-gtk-2.2-idoru-030716.tar.bz2 is the file including the complete toolchain (56mb) |
| 20:50.22 | bobf | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:50.48 | florian | huh? |
| 20:50.53 | bobf | Or is that the wrong url? |
| 20:51.43 | florian | yep, ther is a - after the second "2" |
| 20:51.55 | bobf | gotcha. |
| 20:52.07 | bobf | thanks |
| 20:52.44 | florian | bobf: if you run into trouble - just ask here or (if noone knows here) on the gpe mailinglist... |
| 20:53.17 | bobf | Would this toolchain work for familiar 0.6.x, or just 0.7.x? |
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| 20:54.30 | florian | I think it may be a problem with recent libgpewidget and older versions of X... |
| 20:54.58 | bobf | Guess I'll find out shortly. :) I'm using 0.6.x right now. |
| 20:55.30 | florian | Maybe a good idea to update - especially in gpe many many things changed. |
| 20:56.11 | florian | bobf: btw. what kind of app do you write? |
| 20:56.23 | bobf | I'm in a tight spot with this project, so we'll see. If I don't have to update, I probably won't.. |
| 20:57.41 | bobf | We're using Familiar/GPE on an Applied Data Systems AGX, for a basic X-terminal/touchscreen product |
| 20:58.35 | florian | ah, ok - if you need to be fast maybe native compiling is easier for some stuff... |
| 20:58.35 | bobf | We were previously using real x-terminals, but the company we bought from (NCD) is 1) ridiculously priced, 2) going out of business, from what I understand |
| 20:59.53 | bobf | I'm leaving on a church mission at the end of the month, I'm the only linux guy on the project (and that's the only real work to be done on it, since it's just a software re-design of what we had, in the same mechanical specs/etc.) |
| 20:59.54 | florian | hmm... this sounds interesting - it's nice to hear wher gpe is used and on what kind of devices it runs. |
| 21:00.37 | bobf | Basically just using GPE for Tiny-X and GTK |
| 21:01.15 | bobf | Anyway, I have a setup application for network settings, landscape/portrait mode, and calibrating the touchscreen... then a brightness and contrast adjustment application. |
| 21:01.50 | florian | yep, i think you'll run this on larger displays where you don't need to safe so much space... |
| 21:02.01 | bobf | It's a 10.4" display, running 640x480 |
| 21:02.21 | bobf | (or 480x640, rotated ;p) |
| 21:02.28 | florian | do you use matchbox for wm? |
| 21:03.09 | bobf | Nah, just going to use straight X. |
| 21:03.34 | bobf | There's no WM required |
| 21:03.52 | florian | huh? ok... if you intend to unse only one app this is ok :-) |
| 21:04.29 | bobf | Not using any local apps, actually (besides the setup/brightness/contrast apps, which are called by 3 buttons on the unit) |
| 21:04.40 | bobf | It's purely an x-terminal, everything comes in from the server |
| 21:06.36 | florian | sounds interesting for some special purposes... |
| 21:07.07 | florian | Is this unit an official product to buy? |
| 21:07.09 | bobf | It's very simplistic.. just a touchscreen x-terminal, running apps off a server. |
| 21:07.56 | bobf | http://www.daisydata.com/products/7171.html is the current incarnation of the product. |
| 21:10.14 | florian | bobf: Form time to time we have customers at our business that could use this kind of devices... so it's good to know how and where to get such kind of stuff. |
| 21:10.30 | bobf | Neat. |
| 21:11.32 | florian | pb_: wb |
| 21:11.57 | pb_ | nilsf: ah, great. I'll update whichever gpe packages need updating (probably gpe-login and gpe-session-scripts) very soon. |
| 21:12.10 | pb_ | first I must build these new opie images for Max. :-/ |
| 21:12.32 | pb_ | doh |
| 21:14.00 | florian | pb_: i tried to create a source package for gpe-bootsplash... and failed, i was not able to find the correct version |
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| 21:19.38 | pb_ | florian: ah. let me try that. |
| 21:19.51 | CAMCAM | Hi everyone |
| 21:20.15 | CAMCAM | I have a little question for the GPE team |
| 21:20.45 | CAMCAM | Why do you stop using a desktop with tabs ? |
| 21:21.17 | CAMCAM | When I say desktop, i could use launcher |
| 21:21.46 | pb_ | CAMCAM: that was really driven by the available software. One of my longer-term plans has always been to write a replacement for mbdesktop that used tabs, but sadly it never manages to get to the top of the list. |
| 21:22.13 | CAMCAM | where are mbdesktop source code ? |
| 21:22.26 | pb_ | The old gpe-appmgr was unsatisfactory, mostly due to speed and memory consumption, and mbdesktop was the only readily-available alternative. |
| 21:22.36 | pb_ | mbdesktop source is in matchbox cvs. |
| 21:23.32 | CAMCAM | I don't know if I understood well, mbdesktop used tabs but is not complet at present, is it ? |
| 21:23.45 | pb_ | CAMCAM: no, mbdesktop is what we use at present. |
| 21:23.49 | pb_ | it does not use tabs. |
| 21:23.50 | CAMCAM | ok |
| 21:24.18 | florian | ah, btw... i should test mallums new mbdesktop capabilities... |
| 21:24.30 | CAMCAM | And what was the old one that used tabs ? |
| 21:24.30 | pb_ | sounds cool. what are the new capabilities? |
| 21:24.40 | pb_ | CAMCAM: that was gpe-appmgr, written by mibus. |
| 21:25.02 | CAMCAM | Available into cvs also I presume |
| 21:25.08 | pb_ | Indeed. |
| 21:25.52 | CAMCAM | So, a "simple" merge of the two source code should achieve my goal ;) |
| 21:26.17 | pb_ | CAMCAM: they are quite different source-bases. gpe-appmgr uses GTK and libgpewidget; mbdesktop uses only xlib. |
| 21:27.16 | florian | But i think gpe-appmgr should still work... |
| 21:27.31 | pb_ | Yes, indeed. |
| 21:27.42 | CAMCAM | gpe-appmgr uses GTK and consume more memory but application should start quicly with it as gtk is loaded for it, isn't it ? |
| 21:27.43 | pb_ | There have been some changes to gpeiconlist, but I don't think appmgr should have been broken. |
| 21:27.56 | pb_ | CAMCAM: right. |
| 21:28.31 | florian | Is gpe-appmgr able to use .desktop files? |
| 21:28.38 | CAMCAM | So the memory consumption is not so important ? |
| 21:29.34 | CAMCAM | florian: you perhaps have understood my idea: make an unique environnement for GPE and Opie applications |
| 21:29.47 | pb_ | florian: yes, I think so, in the latest version. |
| 21:29.54 | pb_ | I don't know how it handles categories though. |
| 21:30.04 | CAMCAM | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.30 | florian | CAMCAM: ok, sounds interesting! |
| 21:30.35 | florian | pb_: cool |
| 21:30.43 | pb_ | ibot, seen mibus? |
| 21:30.44 | | mibus <~mibus@038.b.005.ade.iprimus.net.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #gpe, 29d 9h 38m 19s ago, saying: ':-D'. |
| 21:30.47 | pb_ | hrm |
| 21:31.10 | florian | hmm... to far away to knock at his door :-/ |
| 21:31.28 | florian | btw. i had some succes tuning mbmerlin :-) |
| 21:31.34 | pb_ | florian: aha, excellent. |
| 21:32.25 | florian | yeah... i could show off a little bit: I reduced startup time from 6-8 to about 2 seconds. |
| 21:32.45 | pb_ | florian: cool! you rule. |
| 21:32.58 | pb_ | right, gpe-bootsplash-0.1-3.tar.gz is in the source directory now. |
| 21:33.12 | pb_ | that contains my best guess at what the source code would have been. I think it's close enough for the purpose. |
| 21:33.28 | florian | The stroke data files are 68kb now compared to about 120 compressed with gzip -9 before... |
| 21:33.43 | pb_ | florian: what did you do to them? |
| 21:33.57 | florian | pb_: great, i'll look for the next package... |
| 21:36.11 | florian | pb_: converted the data to a raw binary... it was not that hard to create a binary file from merlins internal data structure... |
| 21:36.21 | pb_ | florian: aha, excellent. |
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| 21:38.08 | pb_ | argh! |
| 21:38.19 | pb_ | seems I have destroyed the HEAD version of make-busyboot. |
| 21:39.25 | florian | yeyks... how did this happen? |
| 21:40.03 | pb_ | looks like I checked some changes into the HEAD rather than the busyboot-7plus branch by mistake, a few weeks ago. |
| 21:40.22 | pb_ | luckily it shouldn't be too hard to revert them. |
| 21:40.34 | florian | nasty... |
| 21:40.49 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 21:43.31 | florian | hmm... now that i need my ipaq th e first time this evening... my girlfriend uses it to try xstroke... |
| 21:44.06 | pb_ | heh |
| 21:45.59 | florian | I'm not sure if she has any idea what she is doing... she found some prints of xstroke alphabet i used to test my printer... |
| 21:46.21 | pb_ | lol |
| 21:48.02 | florian | Well.. she understands about that much of a computing device like i of a child ;-) |
| 21:50.55 | florian | ok, gpe-calculator was easy... |
| 21:53.58 | florian | ok, gpe-clock too... i tagged it with current version |
| 21:54.56 | pb_ | Great. |
| 21:59.58 | florian | hmm... how was this setting to start mbdesktop decorated? |
| 22:07.38 | florian | ok, gpe-code |
| 22:08.09 | pb_ | I can never remember what the deal is with gpe-code and gpe-code2. |
| 22:08.48 | pb_ | florian: looks like you want matchbox -use_desktop_mode decorated, or some such. |
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| 22:11.46 | florian | looks like the dir gpe-code contains the stuff for the gpe-code2* packages now |
| 22:12.13 | pb_ | ah. |
| 22:12.52 | florian | at least the control file has the correct version and wasn't changed for a long time |
| 22:13.09 | pb_ | good enough for me. |
| 22:14.31 | florian | ok |
| 22:17.32 | florian | gpe-confd, packaged and tagged |
| 22:17.35 | pb_ | phew, opie images are finished. |
| 22:17.44 | florian | lol |
| 22:18.03 | florian | ok, looks like we need familiar 0.7.2 soon ;-) |
| 22:18.14 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 22:18.23 | pb_ | we planned to make 0.7.2 when russ and jamey returned from vacation. |
| 22:18.53 | florian | please update gpe-conf and gpe-aerial! |
| 22:19.06 | florian | what was gpe-collateral? |
| 22:19.23 | pb_ | it's a task package that depends on stuff like gtk and the theme. |
| 22:19.35 | pb_ | i.e. things that are required by gpe, but not really part of gpe. |
| 22:20.00 | florian | ok, i'll ignore this |
| 22:20.21 | pb_ | yep, fine. it doesn't have any real source. |
| 22:21.10 | florian | Is gpe-config-sleep a part of the release?! |
| 22:21.20 | pb_ | Shouldn't be. |
| 22:21.24 | florian | ok |
| 22:21.29 | pb_ | if it has leaked into the release directory, please delete it. |
| 22:21.47 | florian | done |
| 22:21.57 | florian | brb |
| 22:26.38 | florian | ok |
| 22:32.31 | florian | gpe-edit 0.18 has no tag - is it okay to use the current state? |
| 22:33.06 | pb_ | Yeah, I think so. |
| 22:34.14 | pb_ | The other thing I have been doing in that situation (gpe-bootsplash, for example) is looking at the timestamp on the original .ipk in unstable, then using cvs update -D to pull the source for that date and tarring that up. |
| 22:34.56 | florian | ok, this seems to be a good solution... |
| 22:36.07 | florian | ok, make dist doesn't run for gpe-edit on this machine... |
| 22:36.43 | pb_ | oh, it works for me. |
| 22:36.45 | pb_ | what fails? |
| 22:38.11 | florian | i don't have intltool-extract installed... |
| 22:38.23 | pb_ | aha |
| 22:40.02 | florian | this is my notebook for my university job... |
| 22:40.21 | pb_ | oh, I see. |
| 22:42.02 | florian | hmm... this mbdesktop is buggy... |
| 22:42.30 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 22:43.38 | florian | I wonder if it's maybe a good idea to emulate the behaviour of a decorated desktop window. e.g. a tap on the top label could open the window menu... |
| 22:44.30 | tigert | yes |
| 22:44.42 | tigert | since if you minimize your only app |
| 22:44.48 | tigert | there's no way to get it back |
| 22:44.59 | tigert | unless you start another and access the window menu that way |
| 22:45.15 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 22:45.31 | pb_ | well, actually you can get it back via the "Running tasks" directory, but that always seems clumsy to me. |
| 22:45.34 | tigert | it definitely should do the window menu when you click the desktop top title |
| 22:45.50 | tigert | "active tasks"? |
| 22:45.55 | pb_ | oh yeah |
| 22:45.55 | tigert | that seems always empty |
| 22:46.08 | pb_ | you probably have no programs running :-) |
| 22:46.41 | pb_ | It used to be called "Running programs" or something, which I always thought was a better name than "Active tasks". I'm not sure why it was renamed. |
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| 22:47.44 | florian | ok, sounds like a new suggestion for mallum :-) |
| 22:47.52 | pb_ | yep :-) |
| 22:48.30 | florian | i hope he won't miss his wedding ;-) |
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| 22:49.25 | florian | ok, i'll go to sleep a while... |
| 22:49.55 | florian | night all... |
| 22:50.43 | tigert | oh right, yea, its there now |
| 22:50.56 | tigert | well yep, "Running programs" is a better name |
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| 22:51.02 | tigert | one could have a panel menu for that |
| 22:51.08 | tigert | a popup button |
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| 22:53.03 | pb_ | tigert: that might make sense too |
| 22:56.19 | tigert | opie has a "taskbar" |
| 22:56.24 | tigert | but that takes a lot of space |
| 22:56.36 | pb_ | Yeah. I never liked that much myself. |
| 22:57.04 | pb_ | I think the matchbox-style dropdown menu is good, except for the oddity where you can't reach it when the desktop window is showing. |
| 22:58.37 | tigert | yes |
| 22:58.45 | tigert | and if you dont know it exists |
| 22:59.09 | tigert | the desktop could also have the small down-arrow for the menu |
| 22:59.13 | tigert | like the window decor has |
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| 23:04.00 | pb_ | yeah, that sounds reasonable |
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