| 00:16.33 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@b097c.studby.ntnu.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:16.33 | *** join/#gpe xav (~xav@AGrenoble-101-1-2-89.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:16.33 | *** join/#gpe stargirl (hmw26@student.cusu.cam.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:16.33 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) |
| 00:16.33 | *** join/#gpe tigert (~tigert@mopo.tigert.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:16.33 | *** join/#gpe spung (~rewt@a213-22-98-205.netcabo.pt) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:16.33 | *** join/#gpe AntiProxy (Admin@AntiProxy.com) |
| 00:16.33 | *** join/#gpe LunohoD (alex@rz-alex.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 00:29.32 | pigeon | pb_: Around? |
| 00:31.59 | pb_ | pigeon: Yo! |
| 00:33.02 | pigeon | pb_: Hehe... got a quick question for you... you know compaq/hp has planned ages making builtin gsm/gprs ipaqs, and somehow they discontinued... what about now? You heard anything? |
| 00:34.32 | pb_ | Yeah. The original plan was to offer the h5400 in a GSM variant, and indeed it does have a SIM socket under the battery, but that product was canned and (afaik) there are currently no plans to bring it to market. |
| 00:35.07 | pigeon | Ah... bummer. |
| 00:35.39 | pigeon | I wonder why... looks like everyone is making "pda phone" these days. |
| 00:36.09 | pb_ | Yeah, I'm not sure. Jim mentioned something about software and setup issues, but I don't know if that was the reason for dumping the product or just an annoyance. |
| 01:14.43 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) |
| 03:42.09 | *** join/#gpe CAMAMC (~camrein@AMontsouris-108-1-8-243.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 03:42.10 | *** part/#gpe CAMAMC (~camrein@AMontsouris-108-1-8-243.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 03:42.35 | *** join/#gpe CAMAMC (~camrein@AMontsouris-108-1-8-243.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 05:40.02 | spung | gpe-dm.postinst is looking for update.rc.d, where is that? |
| 05:51.56 | spung | ibot: botmail for pb_ gpe-dm depends on update-rc.d but but its postinst was being run before that was installed (fresh bootstrap install), ipkg bug? |
| 07:22.54 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@proton.hrz.uni-siegen.de) |
| 07:22.57 | florian | hi all |
| 07:23.17 | pigeon | yo florian |
| 07:23.40 | florian | hi pigeon |
| 07:45.15 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@proton.hrz.uni-siegen.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe CAMAMC (~camrein@AMontsouris-108-1-8-243.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe LunohoD (alex@rz-alex.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe AntiProxy (Admin@AntiProxy.com) |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe spung (~rewt@a213-22-98-205.netcabo.pt) |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe tigert (~tigert@mopo.tigert.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe stargirl (hmw26@student.cusu.cam.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe xav (~xav@AGrenoble-101-1-2-89.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe gdsx (xsdg@xsdg.staff.freenode) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe moray (moray@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe fishy (fishy@adsl-81-163-182.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe zoot (foobar@fire.cs.bath.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) |
| 07:45.16 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_ (colin@buug.mind.de) |
| 07:45.35 | *** join/#gpe __moray (~moray@dsl-217-155-67-241.zen.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@proton.hrz.uni-siegen.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe gdsx (xsdg@xsdg.staff.freenode) |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe moray (moray@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe fishy (fishy@adsl-81-163-182.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe zoot (foobar@fire.cs.bath.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) |
| 07:47.23 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_ (colin@buug.mind.de) |
| 07:48.04 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-112-58.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 07:51.42 | florian | hi mallum |
| 07:59.40 | mallum | hey florian |
| 08:00.02 | mallum | florian: The latest mb packages in unstable have the desktop decoration thing |
| 08:00.19 | mallum | florian: just start matchbox with -use_desktop_mode decorated |
| 08:08.38 | florian | mallum: ok, i'll try to update my ipaq from unstable later... |
| 08:09.04 | florian | mallum: as soon i find my cf jacket... |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-112-58.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_ (colin@buug.mind.de) |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe zoot (foobar@fire.cs.bath.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe fishy (fishy@adsl-81-163-182.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe moray (moray@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe gdsx (xsdg@xsdg.staff.freenode) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@proton.hrz.uni-siegen.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:13.44 | *** join/#gpe __moray (~moray@dsl-217-155-67-241.zen.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:13.46 | *** join/#gpe CAMAMC (~camrein@AMontsouris-108-1-8-243.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:13.46 | *** join/#gpe LunohoD (alex@rz-alex.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:13.46 | *** join/#gpe AntiProxy (Admin@AntiProxy.com) |
| 08:13.46 | *** join/#gpe spung (~rewt@a213-22-98-205.netcabo.pt) |
| 08:13.46 | *** join/#gpe tigert (~tigert@mopo.tigert.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:13.46 | *** join/#gpe stargirl (hmw26@student.cusu.cam.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:13.46 | *** join/#gpe xav (~xav@AGrenoble-101-1-2-89.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:14.37 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-112-58.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 08:14.37 | *** join/#gpe CAMAMC (~camrein@AMontsouris-108-1-8-243.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:14.37 | *** join/#gpe xav (~xav@AGrenoble-101-1-2-89.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:14.37 | *** join/#gpe stargirl (hmw26@student.cusu.cam.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:14.37 | *** join/#gpe tigert (~tigert@mopo.tigert.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:14.37 | *** join/#gpe spung (~rewt@a213-22-98-205.netcabo.pt) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:14.38 | *** join/#gpe AntiProxy (Admin@AntiProxy.com) |
| 08:14.38 | *** join/#gpe LunohoD (alex@rz-alex.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:22.42 | tigert | hmm |
| 08:22.52 | tigert | so I found the issue wiht the networking |
| 08:22.58 | tigert | it doesnt setup route for me |
| 08:23.05 | tigert | so LAN works fine, but there is no gateway |
| 08:24.08 | tigert | if I setup a static ip |
| 08:25.39 | florian | tigert: eh... do you set up a static ip and wan't to use dhcp if available? |
| 08:26.18 | tigert | no |
| 08:26.21 | tigert | if I setup static ip |
| 08:26.24 | tigert | I dont get a route |
| 08:26.30 | tigert | but it seems to work if I use dhcp |
| 08:26.37 | tigert | just testing |
| 08:27.30 | florian | tigert: just bo be sure - you entered a static default route and this is not set? |
| 08:27.50 | *** join/#gpe xav_ (~xav@AGrenoble-101-1-4-69.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:28.00 | tigert | well |
| 08:28.03 | tigert | I used the gui tool |
| 08:30.15 | florian | ok - in this case this is bad - i thought this tool was stable :-/ |
| 08:32.17 | florian | Or something else is broken... |
| 08:32.52 | florian | Do you have the "gateway" entry in /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 08:42.34 | florian | mallum: I#d |
| 08:42.59 | florian | mallum: I'd prefer an IRIX disk ;-) |
| 08:44.47 | mallum | florian: hmmm |
| 08:46.05 | florian | (leaving this nasty place) |
| 08:50.29 | *** join/#gpe xav_ (~xav@AGrenoble-101-1-4-69.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:50.29 | *** join/#gpe LunohoD (alex@rz-alex.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:50.29 | *** join/#gpe AntiProxy (Admin@AntiProxy.com) |
| 08:50.29 | *** join/#gpe spung (~rewt@a213-22-98-205.netcabo.pt) |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe tigert (~tigert@mopo.tigert.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe stargirl (hmw26@student.cusu.cam.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-112-58.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_ (colin@buug.mind.de) |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe zoot (foobar@fire.cs.bath.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe fishy (fishy@adsl-81-163-182.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe moray (moray@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe gdsx (xsdg@xsdg.staff.freenode) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) |
| 08:50.30 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@proton.hrz.uni-siegen.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:50.41 | tigert | so it is now a mix of the dhcp and static stuff |
| 08:50.43 | *** join/#gpe __moray (~moray@dsl-217-155-67-241.zen.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 08:50.45 | tigert | also, why is there [x] Use DHCP in two places? |
| 08:50.51 | tigert | in the global and in the eth0 page? |
| 08:51.46 | tigert | btw, should the screen calibration be saved accross sessions? |
| 08:53.32 | mallum | hmm, should be I think |
| 08:55.59 | tigert | how should one shutdown gpe/familiar? |
| 08:57.50 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 09:01.00 | tigert | so, the route is not being set with static ip |
| 09:03.44 | florian | tigert: This dhcp in global is for the ultra-stupid dhcp option in familiar that runs dhcp from pcmcia script if a card is inserted. usually should be off. |
| 09:03.52 | tigert | ok |
| 09:04.42 | florian | tigert: for the desired device you should switch it to dhcp or static like desired - but mixing both methods usually don't work. |
| 09:04.57 | tigert | I have it fully static now |
| 09:05.22 | florian | ok, in this way it should work... |
| 09:05.24 | tigert | # route -n |
| 09:05.24 | tigert | Kernel IP routing table |
| 09:05.24 | tigert | Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface |
| 09:05.24 | tigert | 192.168.1.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 |
| 09:05.32 | tigert | there's no gateway |
| 09:05.39 | tigert | so it only works inside the LAN |
| 09:06.01 | tigert | # route add -net default gw 192.168.1.1 |
| 09:06.02 | tigert | now it works |
| 09:06.08 | tigert | but I need to do that by hand |
| 09:06.16 | tigert | it works correctly if I just use DHCP |
| 09:11.11 | florian | this definitely shouldn't be necessary... |
| 09:19.36 | florian | Does is work after re-inserting the card? |
| 09:23.45 | tigert | lemme check |
| 09:25.02 | tigert | no |
| 09:25.08 | tigert | it kills the route I did by hand |
| 09:25.12 | tigert | and doesnt set it up |
| 09:27.32 | florian | tigert: ok, what's in your /etc/network/interfaces? anything about "gateway"? |
| 09:28.55 | tigert | yes |
| 09:28.58 | tigert | it is there |
| 09:29.01 | tigert | and it is correct |
| 09:29.11 | tigert | iface eth0 inet static |
| 09:29.11 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:29.11 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:29.11 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:29.11 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:29.22 | tigert | eh |
| 09:29.26 | tigert | the netmask is fuxored too |
| 09:29.30 | tigert | maybe I typoed that |
| 09:29.37 | tigert | but it is not related to the issue |
| 09:32.54 | tigert | ooh |
| 09:32.58 | tigert | NOW it works |
| 09:32.59 | tigert | go figure |
| 09:34.19 | tigert | I find it hard to believe that netmask thing could have caused it |
| 09:34.30 | tigert | I mean, since it was not set in the route |
| 09:34.40 | florian | eh yes - shure - 192.168.1.1 is not in the 25.255.255.0 subnet :-) |
| 09:34.53 | tigert | well yes |
| 09:34.57 | tigert | hmm |
| 09:35.21 | tigert | so it refuses to setup the route too I guess |
| 09:35.22 | tigert | hmm |
| 09:39.07 | florian | yep |
| 09:39.10 | florian | brb |
| 09:41.26 | *** join/#gpe nilsf (~nils@kc.celox-online.de) |
| 10:00.13 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@kc.celox-online.de) |
| 10:03.43 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@dsl-62-3-66-201.zen.co.uk) |
| 10:04.36 | pb_ | morning |
| 10:06.23 | mallum | hey pb_ |
| 10:16.05 | mallum | mini jg interview on GPE etc -> http://the-edge.blogspot.com/2003_08_03_the-edge_archive.html#106011855989194679 |
| 10:18.35 | florian | re |
| 10:25.58 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: Oh, so saying "Xwindows" doesn't condemn your soul to hell anymore? |
| 10:26.48 | cmarqu_werk | Ah, oops. I thought jg was writing all of this. |
| 10:42.39 | pb_ | cmarqu_werk: :-) |
| 10:52.26 | *** join/#gpe ade|desk (~adrian@modem-3851.jaguar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 10:54.14 | ade|desk | anyone adsl'ed here? |
| 10:54.50 | pb_ | yeah, we have adsl here at the office. |
| 10:55.25 | *** join/#gpe HET2 (~diman@chello080110092229.507.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 10:56.36 | ade|desk | can you recommend a router, need to get one my my sister's bf |
| 10:58.54 | pb_ | hm, no, not really. our router is really old (3 years). |
| 11:05.05 | *** join/#gpe ade|home (~adrian@modem-3851.jaguar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 11:07.11 | ade|home | grr damn crashes, pb_ did you reply, i didn't see due to crash |
| 11:07.35 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: I like 'That's why the people doing framebuffer based stuff are all wet' |
| 11:08.04 | ade|home | plus not all archs have fb !! |
| 11:09.07 | mallum | classic jg 'jivetalk', what does 'all wet' mean ? |
| 11:09.18 | mallum | is that something todo with the swamp ? |
| 11:09.33 | pb_ | ade|home: I did, but my reply wasn't very enlightening. |
| 11:09.35 | pb_ | <pb_> hm, no, not really. our router is really old (3 years). |
| 11:11.08 | ade|home | i was all in favour of using linksys, then i heard erik on about the use of BB is illegal etc, dont wish to support a GPL abuser |
| 11:11.29 | pb_ | ah, I thought linksys had cleared up their GPL issues now. |
| 11:11.33 | mallum | ade|home: I thought that was all sorted out ? |
| 11:11.55 | ade|home | really, so i can use them again :) |
| 11:13.36 | pb_ | well, I dunno, I hadn't been following that saga especially closely. but I was vaguely aware that linksys had released the source code in question. |
| 11:14.58 | pb_ | I suppose you'd need to check with Erik and his dad to find out whether they are still upset with linksys. |
| 11:16.42 | cmarqu_werk | Yes, you can download their firmware source now. |
| 11:21.14 | *** join/#gpe Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e59.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 11:21.59 | Speuler | 'morning |
| 11:23.07 | mallum | anyone know what formats greader supports ? |
| 11:23.28 | pb_ | btw, in case anybody is interested in web statistics, there were 2966 downloads of bootgpe2 in July. so far this month there have been another 404. |
| 11:23.36 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@b097c.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 11:25.09 | mallum | wow |
| 11:26.09 | tigert | "dude, your images are totally 404!" :) |
| 11:26.36 | pb_ | heh |
| 11:29.37 | pb_ | as for gpe.handhelds.org, there were a total of 87777 hits on that site yesterday, probably inflated by the publicity surrounding the opie release. |
| 11:29.52 | pb_ | in a normal day we get about 12000-15000 or so. |
| 11:32.37 | cmarqu_werk | Wow, that many hits? |
| 11:35.07 | cmarqu_werk | pb_: "Last modified: " doesn't carry a date anymore BTW. Is that easily fixable with the PHP version? |
| 11:38.34 | florian | pb_: hmm... is this logging tool intelligent? Is a hint a call from a host to the domain or one for each page? |
| 11:41.04 | pb_ | florian: No, that's raw HTTP hits, not distinct users. I was just inspecting the logfiles with "grep". If you know of a smarter analysis tool I'd be glad to give it a go. |
| 11:41.17 | pb_ | cmarqu_werk: oh, er, yeah, probably. let me look into that. |
| 11:44.27 | florian | pb_: but it's definitely impressive... much more than i thought |
| 11:44.41 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-112-58.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:46.30 | pb_ | florian: for your amusement, opie.handhelds.org had 748454 hits yesterday. |
| 11:53.55 | florian | pb_: ok, we have still some work to do :-) |
| 11:54.37 | florian | pb_: let's keep this numbers in mind and talk about in one year :-) |
| 11:55.01 | pb_ | florian: right :-) |
| 12:03.33 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~deb-user@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 12:04.36 | *** join/#gpe semtex (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e59.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 12:08.20 | cmarqu_werk | I am being told that webalizer might be an access log tool. |
| 12:08.45 | pb_ | Sounds likely, judging from the name. |
| 12:09.19 | pb_ | We do already have some kind of analysis tool installed on handhelds.org (see http://handhelds.org/analog), but it only gives aggregated statistics for a 7 day period. |
| 12:09.57 | cmarqu_werk | http://jan.kneschke.de/projects/modlogan/ |
| 12:10.46 | cmarqu_werk | http://jan.kneschke.de/projects/modlogan/sample/mla_080_template_basic/mla-web_generic_summary-200001.html |
| 12:10.51 | cmarqu_werk | Looks good. |
| 12:11.46 | pb_ | Yep. |
| 12:25.43 | *** join/#gpe semtex (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e59.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 13:15.13 | *** join/#gpe paul_ (~paul@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 13:28.24 | pb_ | hi paul |
| 13:28.33 | paul | hi pb |
| 13:28.47 | paul | pb_: i now have a bluetooth phone! |
| 13:28.57 | pb_ | paul: rock! which one? |
| 13:29.03 | paul | pb_: 6310 |
| 13:29.13 | pb_ | cool, same as mine. |
| 13:29.16 | paul | pb_: however i cant get bluetooth working :( |
| 13:29.26 | pb_ | oh dear. |
| 13:30.17 | paul | pb_: "hciattach died unexpectedly" if i try 'switch radio on' from gpe-bluetooth. and i havnt a clue about doing it from the bare tools. :( |
| 13:31.04 | pb_ | oh, that might be the old problem with hciattach missing setuid bit. |
| 13:31.22 | pb_ | chmod u+s and try again, see if that helps. |
| 13:32.00 | paul | aha.. |
| 13:34.10 | paul | pb_: that did the trick. |
| 13:34.17 | paul | pb_: so, what can i do with bluetooth? |
| 13:34.27 | *** join/#gpe Vinny`work (xdcc@cbl-216.191.25.115.galaxy-data.com) |
| 13:35.23 | pb_ | paul: the only thing I've used it for is making data calls. I think you can also sync the phone's addressbook, calendar and so on using gnokii over bluetooth, but I was never able to make that work. |
| 13:35.43 | pb_ | can also send and receive SMSs, that kind of thing. |
| 13:36.17 | paul | excellent. |
| 13:37.50 | paul | pb_: hmm... gpe-bluetooth is just quitting after "scanning for devices" - it prints "Terminated" on cli. |
| 13:38.15 | pb_ | hm, that sounds like the out-of-memory problem that florian has and I can never reproduce. |
| 13:38.54 | florian | yep, really... but i think that was gone with the most recent package |
| 13:39.24 | nilsf | paul: Have a look at dmesg... does it say something about "oom killed process..." ? |
| 13:40.13 | nilsf | "Terminated" could IMHO also happen if a child dies unexpectedly and the parent does not catch the signal... |
| 13:40.24 | nilsf | (just for example)... |
| 13:43.35 | paul | nilsf: nope - no OOM message. |
| 13:43.35 | paul | However, i do see: |
| 13:43.35 | paul | bcsp_recv: Out-of-order packet arrived, got 1 expected 0 |
| 13:46.00 | spung | pb_: got my botmail? |
| 13:46.04 | nilsf | paul: The bcsp error is not unusual... it happens mostly when the device is freshly opened. You should only get this at max. once per activating the BT interface. |
| 13:46.17 | pb_ | spung: yes. got mine? |
| 13:46.23 | spung | mallum: is it a known bug that mbdesktop crashes whenever i install a new app? |
| 13:46.29 | spung | pb_: hmm, no |
| 13:46.44 | pb_ | <pb_> botmail for spung: yes, sounds like an ipkg problem. I'll see if I can reproduce it. |
| 13:46.44 | nilsf | spung: Oh! I also have seen this... |
| 13:48.27 | paul | nilsf: ah.. |
| 13:50.06 | spung | What's the current "GPE policy" on glade? does it suck or not? :) |
| 13:50.38 | pb_ | spung: policy remains unchanged: libglade is ok, generated interface.c files are not. |
| 13:52.26 | mallum | spung: okey I'll look into it now |
| 13:53.02 | mallum | spung: what mb version do you have ? |
| 13:53.36 | spung | Package: matchbox-desktop |
| 13:53.36 | spung | Version: 1:0.6.3+cvs20030805 |
| 13:53.45 | mallum | nilsf: does anything currently use libglade ? |
| 13:53.49 | mallum | spung: thanks |
| 13:54.24 | spung | mallum: btw, mb is looking nicer and nicer :) |
| 13:56.08 | mallum | spung: thanks :-) |
| 13:56.51 | mallum | spung: I started fidling this moring to get mbdesktop to 'reparent' gpe-today btw |
| 13:57.33 | spung | mallum: ah cool, i've had 0 time to hack on gpe-today lately :( hopefully i'll get back to it soon |
| 13:58.10 | florian | brbr |
| 13:58.39 | mallum | spung: oh yeah it understands es_ES now too in the panel, but I guess you dont speak es_ES |
| 13:59.11 | spung | mallum: no i don't.. what do you mean? |
| 13:59.55 | mallum | spung: there is now gettest support in the panel and mb panel apps |
| 14:00.00 | mallum | gettext rather |
| 14:00.45 | spung | mallum: i thought that was there already? |
| 14:01.01 | *** join/#gpe Servo888|Idea (~vadim@bgp01031382bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 14:01.10 | mallum | spung: no, only for .desktop files - not the panel popup menu and applet 'bubbles' |
| 14:01.36 | spung | mallum: ahh i see, have you submitted that to the Translation Project? :) |
| 14:01.49 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@kc.celox-online.de) |
| 14:02.00 | mallum | spung: no not yet, dont understand what the deal with that is |
| 14:02.05 | florian | re |
| 14:02.07 | nilsf | mallum: I think nothing uses libglade currently. One problem I see is again the dependency to some version of libxml. |
| 14:02.17 | spung | mallum: well, you sent the pot they send the .po's :) |
| 14:02.35 | mallum | nilsf: I have a version of libglade I hacked to remove libxml dep |
| 14:02.47 | mallum | spung: you have a url ? |
| 14:03.05 | spung | florian: how come the gpe-conf date applet won't update my hour correctly, it's 1 hour late |
| 14:03.20 | spung | mallum: just a sec |
| 14:03.27 | mallum | nilsf: http://handhelds.org/~mallum/xpkgs/glade/glade-just-say-no-to-libxml.patch |
| 14:03.31 | spung | mallum: http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/contrib/po/HTML/maintainers.html |
| 14:03.31 | pb_ | nilsf: libxml2 is already in the gpe-bootstrap image since multiple other programs depend on it. I don't think it would be a big deal for glade to use it as well. |
| 14:04.32 | mallum | pb_: its like 900k on my desktop |
| 14:04.59 | florian | spung: do you use dst, did you change your dst setting recently? |
| 14:05.24 | spung | florian: i tried with the dst option and without and it's the same thing |
| 14:05.59 | pb_ | mallum: libxml2 is? |
| 14:06.43 | mallum | mallum@shuttle:~$ sudo strip /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.5.7 |
| 14:06.43 | mallum | mallum@shuttle:~$ du -h /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.5.7 |
| 14:06.43 | mallum | 916K /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2.5.7 |
| 14:06.57 | florian | spung: i think the problem is maybe that the dst setting is not updated before you log out and in again. |
| 14:07.03 | spung | ah |
| 14:07.05 | pb_ | oh well, I guess it must have gotten bigger in recent versions. |
| 14:07.08 | pb_ | the libxml2 in familiar is < 400k. |
| 14:07.09 | spung | florian: let me try |
| 14:07.38 | mallum | pb_: even 400k is massive , especially when there are 2 other XML parsers already available |
| 14:08.07 | spung | florian: perhaps the popup should appear right when you (de)activate the DST option? |
| 14:08.16 | mallum | pb_: given maybe not as featured, but should do for 80% of cases |
| 14:08.55 | pb_ | mallum: it would be interesting to try implementing the libexpat ABI on top of libxm2. |
| 14:08.56 | florian | spung: it should do so - which version of gpe-conf are you using? |
| 14:08.58 | pb_ | libxml2 even |
| 14:09.01 | florian | brb |
| 14:10.20 | spung | pb_: what's this about? |
| 14:10.22 | spung | ~ # ipkg install gpe-todo-pt |
| 14:10.22 | spung | Downloading http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/locale-base-pt+br_0.2_arm.ipk |
| 14:11.23 | mallum | pb_: If an app is using the libXML SAX parser ( eg libglade ) its pretty trivial to switch it to using glibs internal xml parser. If it uses DOM stuff it may be a little harder |
| 14:12.02 | pb_ | spung: it needs virtual-locale-pt, and you didn't tell it whether you wanted pt+pt or pt+br. |
| 14:12.21 | pb_ | spung: if you install virtual-locale-pt+pt beforehand, that should satisfy the dependency without dragging in pt+br. |
| 14:12.22 | mallum | pb_: SAX just gives a couple of extra callbacks ( document start/end ) which you can 'emulate' and slightly more verbose errors |
| 14:12.27 | spung | pb_: i did |
| 14:12.34 | pb_ | spung: ah. in that case, this would be an ipkg bug. |
| 14:12.40 | spung | damn |
| 14:12.42 | florian | re |
| 14:12.43 | pb_ | spung: try with -V 3 and mail me the output, or file in bugzilla |
| 14:12.43 | spung | i get them all |
| 14:12.48 | pb_ | spung: heh, so it seems. |
| 14:14.37 | pb_ | mallum: I see. |
| 14:15.42 | spung | pb_: oh, nevermind this was a spung bug |
| 14:15.54 | *** join/#gpe HET2 (~diman@chello080110092229.507.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 14:16.02 | mallum | spung: okey I see why the segv is happening |
| 14:16.02 | spung | florian: Package: gpe-conf2 |
| 14:16.02 | spung | Version: 0.1.0-pre6 |
| 14:16.22 | pb_ | spung: aha |
| 14:17.09 | pb_ | spung: incidentally, how did you come to be installing gpe-todo-pt by hand? That should never be necessary. |
| 14:17.39 | spung | florian: also, gpe-conf-pt depends on 'gpe-conf' which doesn't exist.. should the Replaces: gpe-conf be enough or should gpe-conf2 have Provides: gpe-conf ? |
| 14:18.04 | spung | pb_: how should it be done? |
| 14:18.09 | pb_ | it should have Provides:, or we should just rename gpe-conf2 back to gpe-conf. |
| 14:19.12 | pb_ | There's no particularly compelling reason to keep the "2" in all the package names any longer. |
| 14:19.45 | spung | yeah |
| 14:19.55 | spung | so it should replace gpe-conf2 now, right |
| 14:20.09 | pb_ | spung: assuming gpe-todo has a greedy dependency on gpe-todo-locale* (or some such), the locale packages for all selected virtual locales should be automatically installed at the same time as the parent package. |
| 14:20.25 | pb_ | right. |
| 14:20.57 | spung | pb_: oh but i installed the apps before thinking about the locale |
| 14:22.51 | florian | spung: maybe this is the better solution |
| 14:23.16 | pb_ | spung: ah, right. yeah, ipkg could use a "recompute greedy depends" feature. |
| 14:23.48 | spung | pb_: i guess ipkg should have the bugs fixed before having new features :) |
| 14:24.13 | pb_ | spung: perhaps :-) |
| 14:24.55 | spung | pb_: should i change gpe-conf2 to gpe-conf in the gpe-apps taks? |
| 14:25.14 | spung | pb_: and add the Provides: gpe-conf2 just in case |
| 14:25.52 | spung | florian: may i commit that change? |
| 14:26.11 | pb_ | spung: florian should decide that, but it's fine with me. |
| 14:26.20 | spung | yes of course |
| 14:26.35 | pb_ | no need to Provide: gpe-conf2 if nothing is depending on that. |
| 14:26.50 | pb_ | I guess it couldn't hurt though, just in case. |
| 14:27.19 | spung | you never know for sure with ipkg :D |
| 14:28.21 | florian | spung: yep, it's ok - please add a small info in ChnageLog |
| 14:29.31 | spung | florian: Provides: gpe-conf2 or not? your call :) |
| 14:30.53 | spung | florian: man, your ChangeLog is just weird :) |
| 14:32.03 | pb_ | oh, is that the one that you need a terminal six miles wide to edit? |
| 14:32.24 | spung | pb_: that too |
| 14:32.59 | spung | damn |
| 14:33.06 | florian | spung: yes, it should provide this i think. i can remember at least one app depending on it. |
| 14:33.34 | spung | i thought my powerbook had a wide screen |
| 14:33.51 | spung | i need a fullscreen xterm to edit your changelog! |
| 14:33.51 | florian | spung: yes, it is - maybe someone should file a bug agains this ;-) |
| 14:34.59 | spung | florian: can i add a entry like luc's ? |
| 14:36.14 | florian | spung: yes, do this - i think we should continue in this fomat :-) |
| 14:37.30 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: have you seen some of the stuff the editors java kids use can do ? |
| 14:38.55 | spung | mallum: eclipse is scary :) |
| 14:39.08 | spung | mallum: it codes for you |
| 14:39.48 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: No. If it doesn't work with a text terminal, I don't want it anyway. |
| 14:40.50 | spung | florian: commited, i hope i didn't break anything :) |
| 14:43.26 | florian | spung^playing: we'll see - i'll do some gpe-conf updates including packages the next days... |
| 14:43.42 | mallum | spung^playing, cmarqu_werk: I want the refacting stuff, that is so cool |
| 14:56.46 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: Yeah, refactoring is nice. There is a commercial package for emacs: http://www.xref-tech.com/xrefactory/download.html |
| 14:57.44 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: yeah I tried that, total crack |
| 14:59.26 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: Does that mean "good" or "not good"? |
| 15:15.56 | *** join/#gpe steunix (~Stefano@host28-104.pool21326.interbusiness.it) |
| 15:16.45 | *** part/#gpe steunix (~Stefano@host28-104.pool21326.interbusiness.it) |
| 15:17.36 | *** join/#gpe ade|desk (~adrian@modem-860.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 15:20.41 | *** part/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 15:29.00 | *** join/#gpe noidd (~noidd@66.193.15.64) |
| 15:29.04 | noidd | hey guys |
| 15:29.08 | noidd | ping mallum |
| 15:29.36 | florian | hi noidd |
| 15:29.44 | noidd | hows things florian |
| 15:30.19 | florian | noidd: more or less everything s fine... but muuch work to do |
| 15:30.28 | noidd | you the same florian I know from the pronto project? |
| 15:32.56 | florian | noidd: nope, what does pronto project? |
| 15:35.11 | noidd | http://www.muhri.net/pronto |
| 15:35.24 | noidd | its an MUA written in Gtk/Perl |
| 15:35.33 | noidd | its pretty damn sweet |
| 15:38.15 | florian | this reminds me to our mua... or better the lack of a working one. |
| 15:39.17 | pb_ | yeah :-/ |
| 15:40.13 | florian | Is someone aware of a small one that would be worth to port...maybe? |
| 15:40.28 | pb_ | Wasn't someone going to look at sylpheed? |
| 15:40.28 | noidd | small what |
| 15:40.37 | noidd | mua in Gtk/Perl? |
| 15:40.47 | pb_ | mua in Gtk/C |
| 15:41.00 | pb_ | I don't think we can really stomach a Perl interpreter in the gpe base system |
| 15:41.29 | noidd | well, I ported per to buildroot :-) |
| 15:41.38 | noidd | once mallum wakes up ... |
| 15:41.56 | noidd | and I get X cross-compiled i'm going to continue my work porting gpe to buildroot |
| 15:42.04 | pb_ | ah, great. |
| 15:42.19 | florian | this sounds good! |
| 15:42.27 | pb_ | kind of a long hiatus you had there, but better late than never :-) |
| 15:43.02 | noidd | yeah - had a family vacation |
| 15:43.14 | noidd | emmigrated to the US from the UK |
| 15:43.19 | noidd | so been kinda busy :-) |
| 15:43.33 | pb_ | aha |
| 15:44.11 | *** join/#gpe ade|home (~adrian@modem-459.jaguar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 15:45.09 | noidd | ahha, |
| 15:45.09 | florian | noidd: sounds nasty... |
| 15:45.13 | noidd | pb_ hangs out in here |
| 15:45.20 | noidd | now I understand your interest in gpe :-) |
| 15:45.40 | noidd | I can't wait to see it running and play with it some |
| 15:45.55 | noidd | and I will be porting Gtk.pm :-) |
| 15:46.18 | noidd | and likely Gtk2-xs.pm (NOT inline Gtk2.pm for obvious reasons) |
| 15:49.02 | pb_ | ah, yes, I have been hanging out in here for some time. :-) |
| 15:59.16 | noidd | cool beans |
| 15:59.26 | noidd | ping mallum |
| 15:59.31 | noidd | come on - wake up :-D |
| 16:04.40 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: somewhere in the middle ;-) |
| 16:04.42 | florian | ok, i think we have some broken stuff: |
| 16:04.44 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: it definetly looked pretty good, if I could of figured out how to use it |
| 16:04.46 | mallum | pb_: have you considered installing some kind of discussion ( ewe ) forums on hh.org like phpBB , they seem to be all the rage with the kids nowadays ? |
| 16:04.49 | mallum | noidd: heya |
| 16:04.51 | mallum | spung^playing: new mb in unstable |
| 16:04.53 | mallum | noidd: I am awake |
| 16:04.55 | mallum | noidd: you cross compiler is missing a version.h file |
| 16:04.59 | mallum | noidd: pong |
| 16:05.02 | mallum | noidd: ? |
| 16:05.03 | mallum | noidd: have you got me on ignore or summin ? |
| 16:05.09 | mallum | CAN ANYBODY HERE ME ;-) |
| 16:05.24 | pb_ | mallum: considered it, but didn't want to duplicate the functionality of the mailing lists. |
| 16:05.46 | florian | mallum: your libmb ipk in unstable doesn't install the library binary... |
| 16:06.09 | florian | pb_: after updating from unstable gpe-dm isn't started anymore.... |
| 16:06.31 | florian | pb_: looks like an update-rc.d problm |
| 16:06.33 | pb_ | florian: yes, seems there is some kind of update-rc.d lossage. |
| 16:06.34 | pb_ | right |
| 16:06.38 | florian | :-) |
| 16:07.52 | pb_ | I haven't looked into it yet. maybe you could investigate. |
| 16:08.21 | mallum | florian: sure its not ipkg ? |
| 16:08.47 | florian | pb_: yep - there is a "S99gpe-dm" in rc4.d |
| 16:08.56 | pb_ | oh, I wonder how that got there. |
| 16:09.34 | pb_ | very bizarre. |
| 16:09.36 | mallum | florian: mallum@ti:/tmp/libmb1_0.6.3+cvs20030806_arm$ ls -R usr/ |
| 16:09.36 | mallum | usr/: |
| 16:09.36 | mallum | lib |
| 16:09.36 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:09.36 | mallum | usr/lib: |
| 16:09.36 | mallum | libmb.so libmb.so.1 libmb.so.1.0.0 |
| 16:09.46 | florian | mallum: not really - but it's the first time installing the split packages for this machine |
| 16:09.55 | pb_ | mallum: fwiw, you probably don't want to ship libmb.so in the ipk. |
| 16:10.41 | mallum | pb_: yeah I just want libmb.so.1.0.0 right ? |
| 16:10.49 | pb_ | right |
| 16:11.01 | mallum | florian: yeah that ipkg playing up |
| 16:11.23 | pb_ | opinion is divided over whether shipping libmb.so.1 is a good idea or not. it doesn't hurt to do so, anyway. |
| 16:11.51 | mallum | pb_: ldconfig will create the links right ? |
| 16:11.55 | pb_ | yep |
| 16:12.30 | pb_ | the downside to not shipping the link is that when ldconfig creates it, that file will not belong to any package and so it will not be removed if libmb1 is uninstalled. |
| 16:12.44 | mallum | pb_: ah of course |
| 16:13.02 | pb_ | also, distributions like openzaurus don't provide ldconfig, so relying on it might be bad form. |
| 16:13.14 | florian | mallum: ipkgfind is not up to date: |
| 16:13.22 | florian | mallum: The requested URL /~mallum/downloadables/matchbox-0.6.3+cvs20030806.tar.gz was not found on this server. |
| 16:13.59 | mallum | pb_: right I do slightly different packages for OZ ( different deps ) |
| 16:15.35 | mallum | florian: could you tell noidd I am here, he seems to have me on igonore or summin but keeps pinging me |
| 16:17.36 | florian | mallum: ok |
| 16:18.08 | florian | mallum: "exec: x-window-manager: no xuch file or directory" |
| 16:18.36 | mallum | florian: its ipkg, that packages havn't been installed |
| 16:18.52 | florian | mallum: looks like postinst didn*t run |
| 16:20.19 | mallum | florian: does /usr/bin/matchbox exist ? |
| 16:20.39 | florian | pb_: "Failed to start message bus: Failed to read dirctory "/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/services" |
| 16:21.21 | pb_ | florian: I think ipkgfind is correct, actually. It seems that the source url given in the package just doesn't exist. |
| 16:21.31 | pb_ | maybe we should have upload-package.cgi check for that as well. |
| 16:21.58 | florian | pb_: ok |
| 16:22.08 | pb_ | florian: yeah, I need to build a new dbus-1 package. nothing actually uses the session bus, though, so it isn't particularly urgent to have it working. |
| 16:24.11 | florian | mallum: mbsession is missing too :-/ |
| 16:24.42 | mallum | florian: its *IPKG* its fucked |
| 16:25.00 | florian | looks so |
| 16:28.04 | florian | noidd: ping |
| 16:28.20 | florian | mallum: ok, matchbox is there... |
| 16:29.47 | florian | mallum: ok matchbox runs - now next problem |
| 16:30.08 | mallum | florian: phew ! :-) |
| 16:30.42 | florian | mallum: matchbox complains abount a missing version info for libpng12.so.0 |
| 16:33.12 | mallum | florian: yes something is wrong with the libpng |
| 16:33.38 | mallum | florian: I dunno but I think it is harmless |
| 16:35.50 | pb_ | yeah, just means libpng12 was built with a prehistoric toolchain I think |
| 16:36.02 | pb_ | we should probably rebuild to shut that up. |
| 16:41.25 | florian | mallum: there seems to be a typo somewhere: adding the applaunch dockapp i get an error message: "cant open /usr/share/matchbox /vfolders/Root.desktop" |
| 16:41.44 | florian | mallum: there is a space in the filename |
| 16:43.33 | florian | mallum: and mbdesktop doesn't come up... |
| 16:43.39 | mallum | florian: thats odd |
| 16:44.04 | mallum | florian: does /usr/share/matchbox/vfolders/Root.desktop exist ? |
| 16:44.34 | mallum | florian: you do have matchbox-common installed right ? |
| 16:44.42 | florian | mallum: nope... |
| 16:45.46 | florian | mallum: re-installing this |
| 16:48.21 | florian | ok, WORKS! |
| 16:48.24 | florian | cool |
| 16:53.40 | mallum | florian: :-) |
| 16:53.58 | *** join/#gpe gorvah (~chblomqv@ua211d47.elisa.omakaista.fi) |
| 16:58.16 | florian | mallum: ok, way better - especially the rotate icon :-) |
| 16:58.51 | mallum | florian: :-) |
| 16:59.10 | *** join/#gpe moray (moray@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) |
| 16:59.17 | mallum | florian: remember to play with the '-use_desktop_mode decorated' switch to matchbox |
| 16:59.25 | mallum | florian: ( add it in mbsession ) |
| 17:00.33 | florian | mallum: yes, this will be my next step... |
| 17:00.38 | *** join/#gpe Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e59.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:01.54 | florian | mallum: The feature that prevented dialogs hiding a part of xkbd seems to be broken. |
| 17:03.02 | mallum | florian: how do you mean ? |
| 17:05.03 | florian | mallum: opening xkbd moved dialogs to habe enough space on the bottom of the screen for it |
| 17:05.46 | mallum | florian: right, xkbd should move dialogs up |
| 17:06.34 | florian | mallum: it doesn't do that... |
| 17:06.59 | florian | mallum: the logout and lock menu entries are gone :-/ |
| 17:07.02 | mallum | florian: hmm, does it work with nmf ? |
| 17:07.28 | mallum | florian: yes Im waiting for gpe-login to provide entrys for them |
| 17:10.41 | florian | mallum: mbdesktop doesn't like this paramater :-( |
| 17:13.47 | gorvah | Hello. Seems you're discussing xkbd. Is there a way to specify which keys obey the capslock? |
| 17:15.03 | florian | gorvah: Hi! |
| 17:15.33 | florian | mallum: there? this sounds like another question for you- |
| 17:17.55 | mallum | gorvah: not with out hacking the source currently |
| 17:19.09 | gorvah | ok |
| 17:19.56 | florian | bbl |
| 17:22.28 | mallum | gorvah: I should make it one day so you can define it in the config files |
| 17:23.13 | mallum | gorvah: but being lazy and not a fan of caps lock key I have yet to be motivated to do so ;-) |
| 17:30.55 | gorvah | mallum: The feature would be appreciated by anyone who is doing a non-english layout. |
| 17:39.06 | mallum | gorvah: yep |
| 17:40.15 | mallum | gorvah: maybe one of them will send me a patch :-) |
| 17:41.54 | noidd | mallum! |
| 17:42.13 | mallum | noidd! |
| 17:43.15 | mallum | I have to go now ... bbl |
| 17:43.19 | noidd | do you remmebr ages ago |
| 17:43.21 | noidd | ARGH! |
| 17:43.22 | noidd | fucker |
| 17:43.25 | pb_ | lol |
| 17:44.32 | noidd | damnit |
| 17:44.37 | noidd | unbelievable |
| 17:46.20 | pb_ | noidd: perhaps you should try sending him email |
| 17:50.07 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~deb-user@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 17:50.07 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 17:50.07 | *** join/#gpe gdsx (xsdg@xsdg.staff.freenode) |
| 17:50.09 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@p50929282.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:50.09 | florian | re |
| 17:50.13 | noidd | i don't know his email address :-) |
| 18:09.23 | *** part/#gpe gorvah (~chblomqv@ua211d47.elisa.omakaista.fi) |
| 18:21.11 | pb_ | noidd: mallum@handhelds.org |
| 18:21.13 | pb_ | florian: re |
| 18:25.24 | florian | ok, i think I'm there |
| 18:26.37 | *** join/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 18:30.50 | *** join/#gpe Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e59.pool.mediaWays.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 18:40.47 | *** join/#gpe reenoo (~r@pD9528D3E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:41.21 | reenoo | hi |
| 18:41.53 | florian | hi reenoo |
| 18:42.22 | reenoo | hey florian |
| 18:42.44 | reenoo | it's just too hot here nowadays |
| 18:42.48 | reenoo | :( |
| 18:47.14 | reenoo | but the worst thing is that heat seems to vaporize people's brains... some idiot almost wrecked my car this morning... fortunately I stepped on the brakes "just in time"(TM) |
| 18:48.38 | florian | br... |
| 18:48.38 | florian | yes, the sco folks seem to suffer from braindeadness too ;-) |
| 18:48.51 | reenoo | haha |
| 18:48.53 | reenoo | yeah |
| 18:51.44 | reenoo | hmmm... PDA kit by AMD |
| 18:53.20 | reenoo | http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330_6625_6012%5E8407,00.html |
| 19:00.59 | florian | yes, this is nice! |
| 19:02.17 | florian | at least - the text sounds nice - but it would be great to test it. |
| 19:24.13 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:25.21 | *** join/#gpe Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e59.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:25.21 | *** join/#gpe Vinny`work (xdcc@cbl-216.191.25.115.galaxy-data.com) |
| 19:25.21 | *** join/#gpe paul (~paul@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 19:25.21 | *** join/#gpe nilsf (~nils@kc.celox-online.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:25.21 | *** join/#gpe fishy (fishy@adsl-81-163-182.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:25.21 | *** join/#gpe pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) |
| 19:25.21 | *** join/#gpe zoot (foobar@fire.cs.bath.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:25.52 | *** join/#gpe reenoo (~r@pD9528D3E.dip.t-dialin.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:26.03 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@p50929282.dip.t-dialin.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:26.03 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~deb-user@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 19:26.03 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:26.03 | *** join/#gpe gdsx (xsdg@xsdg.staff.freenode) |
| 19:26.12 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_ (colin@buug.mind.de) |
| 19:26.33 | florian | http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=73722&cid=6625740 |
| 19:33.03 | reenoo | florian: lol |
| 19:34.24 | florian | Usually i don't forward this kind of stuff - but this one is really too cool... |
| 20:04.09 | *** join/#gpe CAMCAM (~camrein@AMontsouris-108-1-33-149.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:08.17 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 20:09.36 | florian | Who created xstroke? |
| 20:10.16 | pb_ | Carl Worth |
| 20:11.20 | florian | ah, cool - i should try to find out if it's hard to paint strokes on screen like xstroke does... |
| 20:11.58 | pb_ | Not especially. It uses RENDER. I guess nowadays the way to do that would be with Cairo. |
| 20:12.39 | florian | OK... have a link? i have no idea about Cairo. |
| 20:12.51 | pb_ | www.cairographics.org |
| 20:14.23 | pb_ | It's Keith and Carl's new graphics library. Rather easier to use than making direct calls to the Render API. |
| 20:14.57 | pb_ | What application did you have in mind for painting strokes on the screen, by the way? |
| 20:14.58 | florian | This sounds intelligent... do we have it in feed? |
| 20:15.09 | pb_ | Yes, mallum made some packages recently. |
| 20:15.30 | florian | mbmerlin - i do some usability changes tigert mentioned |
| 20:15.41 | pb_ | aha, right. |
| 20:15.59 | pb_ | I've never looked at mbmerlin at all, in fact. I guess I should check it out. |
| 20:18.54 | florian | :-) |
| 20:28.29 | tigert | hhm? |
| 20:28.53 | tigert | oh yea, that |
| 20:29.03 | tigert | btw, lemme know if you add stuff to the feed |
| 20:29.14 | tigert | or if you have binaries for testing |
| 20:31.01 | florian | tigert: sure... |
| 20:31.32 | florian | tigert: btw - where was the graphics you created? i have the link on another pc |
| 20:31.40 | tigert | oh |
| 20:31.42 | tigert | lemme think |
| 20:32.02 | florian | i thin it something at gimp.org |
| 20:32.09 | florian | s/thin/think |
| 20:32.25 | tigert | http://tigert.gimp.org/files/gpe-mockups/gpe-scratchpad-mockup.png |
| 20:32.29 | tigert | yes |
| 20:32.45 | florian | yep, thank you! |
| 20:32.51 | tigert | what I liked in Qpie is that it had all those in the one menu button |
| 20:33.00 | tigert | the mini keyboard, and the graffiti thing |
| 20:33.06 | tigert | and then it had this "special keypad" |
| 20:33.11 | tigert | which had all kinds of useful things |
| 20:33.22 | tigert | like "PageUp" and whatnot |
| 20:33.28 | tigert | and maybe ^C etc |
| 20:33.41 | tigert | it could have different useful thigns you have hard time doing with graffiti |
| 20:33.49 | tigert | even though one would want to use graffiti for everything else |
| 20:33.57 | tigert | so that could be there as a popup when needed |
| 20:34.17 | florian | yep, this would be cool... |
| 20:35.05 | florian | btw. is anyone here aware of a command line tool that is able to create keyboard events? |
| 20:35.11 | florian | (for x) |
| 20:35.48 | pb_ | never heard of one. I guess it would be easy to write something with XTest though. |
| 20:36.54 | florian | pb_: yes, but an existing one is maybe easier - i'd like to have it for the simpad |
| 20:37.40 | pb_ | right |
| 20:47.37 | florian | In which lib is XftFontOpenName? Not libXft? |
| 20:47.50 | pb_ | certainly sounds like a libxft function. |
| 20:48.33 | pb_ | yeah, it's there for me. |
| 20:48.41 | pb_ | 0000abb8 g DF .text 00000160 Base XftFontOpenName |
| 20:50.20 | pb_ | bbl |
| 20:51.41 | florian | hmmmmm..... |
| 20:54.18 | *** join/#gpe dopez (~unknown@dopez.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:00.57 | florian | this nasty toolchain... |
| 21:01.27 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.25216.png |
| 21:03.03 | tigert | woot |
| 21:03.13 | tigert | hm |
| 21:03.17 | *** join/#gpe paul (~paul@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 21:03.22 | tigert | I think the labels should either be centered or all left aligned |
| 21:03.25 | tigert | now it looks a bit weird |
| 21:03.31 | tigert | but looks good otherwise! |
| 21:04.29 | florian | ok - my problem nr.1 is that i'm not used to this raw xlib stuff |
| 21:23.35 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-112-58.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:29.55 | mallum | florian: ping |
| 21:30.01 | florian | mallum: pong |
| 21:30.23 | mallum | florian: I checked the toolbar vs dialog problem |
| 21:30.40 | mallum | florian: it seems it is working just not in some situations ( fixed now ) |
| 21:31.00 | mallum | florian: one of which being when there is no 'main' application present |
| 21:31.11 | florian | mallum: ah, ok... |
| 21:31.21 | florian | mallum: i'm tuning mbmerlin... |
| 21:31.43 | mallum | florian: ah cool :-) |
| 21:32.15 | mallum | florian: getting it to startup any faster ? |
| 21:33.29 | florian | mallum: I didn't try so far... some optical changes and Xlib practises first :-) |
| 21:35.35 | mallum | florian: hmm, any xlib stuff I can do pretty easily |
| 21:35.51 | mallum | florian: the main problem is getting it to load fast and keeping its config files compressed |
| 21:38.56 | mallum | florian: I dont have a clue how its recognition works |
| 21:39.36 | florian | mallum: ok - we have a new scap: |
| 21:39.39 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.15880.png |
| 21:41.06 | mallum | florian: ah, that looks nicer |
| 21:41.21 | mallum | florian: maybe put vertical line at sides too ? |
| 21:42.23 | mallum | florian: the way it sends key events is a bit crappy, but I've been hacking that part of xkbd out into its own lib so mbmerlin could use it too |
| 21:43.23 | florian | mallum: I think this i could need too - i need a command line tool for creating key events for the SIMpad buttons. |
| 21:43.57 | florian | Changed the lines to dashed lines... this maybe looks better... |
| 21:44.10 | mallum | tigert: did you do all the oo.o icons ? |
| 21:44.11 | tigert | 2shot? |
| 21:44.11 | florian | mallum:# http://tigert.gimp.org/files/gpe-mockups/gpe-scratchpad-mockup.png |
| 21:44.19 | tigert | mallum: part of them |
| 21:44.22 | tigert | mallum: we did them with Jakub |
| 21:44.55 | mallum | tigert: I made the new rotation icon from one of them ;-) |
| 21:44.58 | tigert | mallum: it was a pretty huge effort, but as a hint: it contains a LOT of nice small 16x16 icons |
| 21:45.07 | tigert | that you could nick into gpe |
| 21:45.08 | mallum | tigert: yeah I can imagine , well done ! |
| 21:45.15 | tigert | mallum: took like half a year or so |
| 21:45.21 | mallum | tigert: I install xd2 the other week, pretty much blew me away |
| 21:45.39 | tigert | cool |
| 21:45.48 | tigert | yea, it has good stuff, also apart from the looks |
| 21:45.52 | tigert | like nfs:// |
| 21:45.59 | tigert | and the printer stuff |
| 21:46.03 | mallum | tigert: I though RH8 looked nice till I saw that |
| 21:46.11 | mallum | tigert: yeah lots of nice stuff |
| 21:46.11 | tigert | a lot of stuff is approaching the "just works" -state |
| 21:46.39 | tigert | good to hear |
| 21:46.40 | mallum | yeah indeed |
| 21:48.21 | mallum | tigert: the Vera fonts look really nice too - pity I cant get em nice the ipaq |
| 21:48.38 | tigert | gpe seems to reset my font size after each boot |
| 21:48.41 | tigert | it makes it very tiny |
| 21:49.06 | tigert | vera looks nice at 8pt |
| 21:49.12 | tigert | but it makes it 7pt I think |
| 21:49.23 | tigert | also, I think the desktop labels would look better if it didnt have that shadow |
| 21:49.30 | tigert | it doesnt look very good with small fonts |
| 21:49.41 | mallum | yeah thats a bane of my life ;-) |
| 21:49.47 | tigert | of course then there is the "should it be white or black" issue |
| 21:50.19 | __moray | mallum: however, I doubt most users want fonts that small anyway, to be honest... - though it obviously becomes more of a challenge to make a sensible interface as the text's size increases |
| 21:50.57 | tigert | I think Vera at 8 pt is reasonable |
| 21:51.11 | tigert | if you cannot fit more, your UI is most likely just too complex |
| 21:51.26 | tigert | it is hard to use too small UI elements with that poking stick anyway |
| 21:51.29 | __moray | mallum: but at worst having less on screen slows things down, whereas too-small fonts can just be unreadable for many people |
| 21:51.39 | __moray | tigert: indeed |
| 21:52.28 | tigert | also I wish the dashed "selection" indicator on icons could just do what nautilus does |
| 21:52.40 | tigert | ie, have a dark "box" around the label |
| 21:52.44 | tigert | and maybe behind the icon too |
| 21:52.52 | tigert | the dash rectangle is not very visible |
| 21:53.52 | mallum | tigert: all the fonts, colors, icon sizes and space are configurable on the 'desktop' |
| 21:54.20 | tigert | that doesnt seem to work very well currently though |
| 21:54.32 | mallum | tigert: the problem is that only mostly done via the cmd line |
| 21:54.34 | tigert | I need to reboot the thing to get them see the new grid size |
| 21:54.48 | mallum | tigert: you should just be able to log in/out |
| 21:55.10 | mallum | tigert: we currently have no gconf as of all the bonobo deps etc |
| 21:55.25 | mallum | tigert: so difficult to change on the fly |
| 21:55.42 | tigert | hmm |
| 21:55.49 | mallum | tigert: ...but I have a gconf that runs over dbus and no libxml2 dep |
| 21:55.51 | tigert | Darwin license is now "FSF Free" |
| 21:56.11 | tigert | ok |
| 21:56.29 | mallum | tigert: and I have gconf support in mb CVS |
| 21:56.50 | mallum | tigert: but the current gconf-dbus is dependant on an older dbus than whats in familiar |
| 21:57.10 | mallum | tigert: I have to wait for dbus to become more stable before gconf gets updated against it |
| 21:57.12 | tigert | k |
| 21:57.31 | mallum | tigert: then we switch over, gpe can provide more sensable defualts for the desktop |
| 21:58.05 | mallum | tigert: but Id like to talk more on how you think it should look |
| 21:59.27 | tigert | ok? |
| 22:00.48 | tigert | the "desktop"? |
| 22:02.22 | mallum | tigert: My current plan is to make the desktop put best fit white/black text on solid color backgrounds and the outlined one on a image background |
| 22:02.49 | tigert | hm |
| 22:02.50 | mallum | tigert: also spread the icons out a bit more, 4 rather than 5 a row, so bigger text fits better |
| 22:02.57 | tigert | I wonder if you could do blur on the text shadow |
| 22:03.07 | tigert | that might help, dunno though |
| 22:03.12 | mallum | tigert: the text shadow is only one pix |
| 22:03.16 | tigert | the problem is the non-bold text |
| 22:03.25 | tigert | it is too thin so it looks broken wiht the shadow |
| 22:04.11 | mallum | tigert: the text used to be bold, but people didn't like it at such a small size |
| 22:04.42 | mallum | tigert: with more spacing the text can be bigger and bold and hopefully shadow with look ok |
| 22:04.59 | tigert | yea |
| 22:05.00 | mallum | tigert: also I could maybe alpha blend the shadow a little to make it more suttle ? |
| 22:05.07 | tigert | it could work yea |
| 22:05.44 | mallum | tigert: are you running unstable ? |
| 22:05.51 | tigert | just cramming everything too small might be fun for hackers (Look! 27 tiled xterms on my screen!!) but it can be hard to use |
| 22:06.10 | tigert | mallum: I think I am runnin unstable yea |
| 22:06.32 | mallum | tigert: cool, there is an easy way to experiment with settings |
| 22:06.38 | florian | mallum, tigert: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.22878.png |
| 22:07.11 | mallum | florian: ah cool, you have discovered XChangeGC ? |
| 22:07.56 | tigert | mallum: ok? |
| 22:07.57 | mallum | tigert: have a look at /usr/bin/mbsession ( its a shell script ) thats what starts the 'desktop' etc |
| 22:08.08 | tigert | florian: nice |
| 22:08.21 | tigert | florian: but make the dash like this: -- -- -- -- |
| 22:08.22 | florian | mallum: eh, no.. |
| 22:08.45 | florian | mallum: this sounds like a job for you... |
| 22:08.47 | mallum | florian: XSetLineStyle or summin ? |
| 22:09.05 | tigert | florian: I mean "two pixels color, one pixel empty" -dash |
| 22:09.16 | florian | XSetLineAttributes |
| 22:09.25 | mallum | florian: thats the one :-) |
| 22:09.52 | florian | tigert: ok... |
| 22:10.12 | mallum | tigert: you can overide or edit that script and pass options to mbdesktop to change its look, then just log in/out to see what they look like |
| 22:10.13 | tigert | florian: sorry to be nitpicking :)) |
| 22:10.23 | mallum | tigert: do a mbdesktop --help to see the options |
| 22:10.25 | tigert | what are the options ? |
| 22:10.28 | tigert | oh |
| 22:10.30 | tigert | :)) |
| 22:11.22 | mallum | tigert: specify fonts like SanSerif-8:bold |
| 22:13.11 | tigert | how would I specify "Bitstream Vera"? |
| 22:14.14 | tigert | oh, worked |
| 22:14.53 | florian | tigert: :-) np |
| 22:15.10 | mallum | tigert: like Bitstream Vera Serif-8:bold |
| 22:15.26 | tigert | "Vera-8" seems to work too |
| 22:16.14 | mallum | tigert: yeah fontconfig does a good job of matching |
| 22:16.25 | tigert | tea |
| 22:16.30 | tigert | yea even |
| 22:18.44 | tigert | now it is sleep time |
| 22:18.45 | tigert | night |
| 22:18.48 | mallum | g'night |
| 22:19.01 | florian | very good idea... |
| 22:19.07 | mallum | tigert: nudge me when you have some nice defaults |
| 22:19.08 | florian | tigert: night.. |
| 22:19.13 | tigert | k |
| 22:19.25 | tigert | mbdesktop --font "Vera-8" |
| 22:19.26 | tigert | is good |
| 22:19.38 | tigert | and space out the icons a bit more |
| 22:20.06 | tigert | and it would be nice if the "selected" indicator was solid, maybe like in nautilus |
| 22:20.10 | florian | mallum: i'll check in these changes now - would you like to look at the small buttons and a kind of selector for special keys? |
| 22:20.42 | mallum | florian: sure, though I think speeding it up is more important first :-) |
| 22:21.10 | florian | mallum: ok, look like this is my job for tomorrow :-) |
| 22:22.03 | tigert | check out Opie 1.0 |
| 22:22.16 | tigert | it has quite a bit of polish and good stuff gpe could benefit from |
| 22:22.24 | tigert | http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=ipaq&id=port_24367 |
| 22:22.28 | tigert | this is their keyboard thingy |
| 22:22.48 | tigert | http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=ipaq&id=port_25725 < this is their special keypad |
| 22:23.41 | tigert | but later |
| 22:23.43 | tigert | & |
| 22:25.10 | mallum | florian: if we cant speed it up there are some tricks we can do |
| 22:25.51 | florian | mallum: yes - first showing the window e.g. :-) |
| 22:26.43 | mallum | florian: make it work with startup notification + only hide the window rather than close the app after that |
| 22:27.14 | mallum | tigert: yeah should be possible to make xkbd look like them |
| 22:27.20 | florian | mallum: yep, another good idea... |
| 22:28.07 | florian | mallum: yep, only a small tune to fitaly layout :-) |
| 22:28.35 | mallum | florian: the other shot you can change the colors of the lines in the layout file iirc |
| 22:28.48 | florian | mallum: ok, changes are in - i'll go to sleep a while... |
| 22:28.56 | mallum | florian: okey |
| 22:30.00 | LunohoD | re |
| 22:30.01 | florian | mallum: ok, night |
| 22:30.22 | florian | hi LunohoD |
| 22:30.25 | LunohoD | how much diskspace do all gpe libraries take? |
| 22:30.29 | LunohoD | florian: hello |
| 22:30.40 | LunohoD | binary of course |
| 22:31.23 | florian | LunohoD: The gpe-libs itself are really small... the complete familiar bootgpe including X, system and GPE is about 13MB |
| 22:31.38 | mallum | florian: g'night |
| 22:32.48 | LunohoD | i have working system with Xserver, you mean gpe-libs won't take a lot of space? |
| 22:36.03 | florian | LunohoD: Depends on what you intend to do. You'll need GTK2 and libgpe+libgpewidget and some smaller stuff. |
| 22:36.49 | florian | LunohoD: The most pim app use sqlite for database backent, so you'll need libsqlite for them. |
| 22:37.10 | LunohoD | is it possible to run gpe applications on smaller screens? 160x240? |
| 22:39.58 | florian | LunohoD: Yep, at least it should be possible - maybe this needs some testing... and bugfixing. |
| 22:45.04 | florian | night all! |
| 22:46.32 | mallum | tigert: did you want 8pt bold or just 8pt ? or are you asleep ;-) |
