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| 00:40.06 | pigeon | heh |
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| 04:50.12 | dc_ | morning :] |
| 04:55.29 | stargirl | I have glandular fever!! |
| 04:55.37 | pigeon | dc_: heh |
| 04:55.37 | stargirl | (and I'm about to go to bed) |
| 04:55.49 | pigeon | stargirl: oh |
| 04:56.06 | stargirl | yeah -- very painful tonsils |
| 04:56.17 | stargirl | right must sleep before painkillers wear off |
| 04:56.22 | stargirl | night everyone |
| 06:01.15 | tigert | hm |
| 06:06.29 | tigert | gah, this serial transfer doesnt seem like the most reliable thing |
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| 07:17.30 | florian | morning |
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| 07:58.02 | tigert | morning |
| 07:59.57 | florian | hello tigert |
| 08:03.18 | tigert | hi |
| 08:03.20 | tigert | hm |
| 08:03.30 | tigert | are Qpie and Gpe at all compatible? |
| 08:03.46 | florian | Well... |
| 08:03.51 | tigert | there are some things in Qpie that are very nice I'd like to have in gpe |
| 08:04.01 | tigert | but I guess the "panel" etc are not compatible? |
| 08:04.07 | tigert | like those small "applets" |
| 08:04.22 | florian | Yep, basically they are not compatible... |
| 08:04.25 | tigert | yea |
| 08:05.06 | tigert | what about their handwriting stuff? |
| 08:05.23 | florian | GPE is not that complete like opie is... |
| 08:05.37 | florian | but we are working on this matter :-) |
| 08:05.49 | tigert | ok |
| 08:05.54 | tigert | yea, that is what I thought |
| 08:06.24 | florian | tigert: help me - what kind of handwriting recognition do tey use? |
| 08:06.35 | tigert | it's pretty similar |
| 08:06.36 | tigert | but |
| 08:06.43 | tigert | well, I guess I can take a screengrab |
| 08:06.45 | tigert | one sec |
| 08:06.50 | florian | ok |
| 08:06.53 | tigert | ssh in etc.. |
| 08:07.43 | tigert | it uses X right? |
| 08:08.02 | florian | GPE - sure... |
| 08:08.32 | tigert | there is no "xhost" |
| 08:08.32 | tigert | hmm |
| 08:08.38 | tigert | how can I give access to the display? |
| 08:09.08 | florian | tigert: ah, you don't know the screenshot service? |
| 08:09.51 | tigert | no |
| 08:09.56 | tigert | I just got this thing last night |
| 08:10.09 | tigert | but this is Qpie now |
| 08:10.56 | tigert | but basically they have pretty similar handwriting thing |
| 08:11.01 | tigert | it just has a small window |
| 08:11.02 | florian | This doesn't matter - ther is a generic, framebuffer based screenshot facility at handhelds.org/scap/ |
| 08:11.03 | tigert | on the bottom |
| 08:11.09 | tigert | ok |
| 08:11.36 | florian | You need to install a small package "scap"... |
| 08:11.42 | florian | ipkg install scap |
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| 08:16.02 | tigert | hrm |
| 08:16.25 | tigert | the problem is, my gateway is not setup right |
| 08:16.26 | tigert | hmm |
| 08:17.07 | florian | Maybe just add it manually trom a terminal... |
| 08:17.13 | florian | s/trom/from |
| 08:17.33 | tigert | lemme reboot this and see |
| 08:17.49 | florian | ok |
| 08:22.48 | tigert | now it works |
| 08:22.51 | tigert | I had to add the route by hand |
| 08:23.20 | florian | Strange... sounds like a misconfigured dhcp... |
| 08:24.02 | tigert | okay |
| 08:24.03 | tigert | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.21269.png |
| 08:24.08 | tigert | there is the "cut/paste" applet |
| 08:24.12 | tigert | that *rules* in practice |
| 08:24.42 | tigert | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.21333.png |
| 08:24.45 | tigert | that's the keyboard menu |
| 08:24.46 | tigert | and: |
| 08:25.05 | tigert | the stylus keyboard is basically the same gpe has |
| 08:25.48 | florian | ok, this c+p applet should be easy... |
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| 08:26.11 | tigert | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.24030.png |
| 08:26.18 | tigert | that's the "graffiti" thingy |
| 08:26.26 | tigert | it's like the xstylus or whatever gpe uses |
| 08:26.41 | tigert | but it has those areas for CAPS / normal / numbers |
| 08:27.32 | florian | Yep, i think both are based on xstroke - there is (at least in unstable feed) a hw recognition tool that does the same in GPE. i think it is called "merlin". |
| 08:27.50 | tigert | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.24451.png |
| 08:27.52 | florian | I think mallum would be the person to ask for details... |
| 08:27.53 | tigert | this is a mini keyboard |
| 08:28.04 | tigert | florian: ok |
| 08:28.16 | tigert | these are just things I found useful in qpie |
| 08:28.21 | florian | looks you enjoy scap :-) |
| 08:28.25 | tigert | yes |
| 08:28.27 | tigert | scap rules :) |
| 08:28.41 | tigert | hm |
| 08:28.48 | tigert | qpie now has the mandrake Crystal icon stuff |
| 08:28.51 | tigert | it looks nice |
| 08:29.08 | tigert | but I guess I need to look in the mirror to get that fixed in gpe :) |
| 08:29.21 | tigert | their terminal is cool btw |
| 08:29.24 | florian | :-)) |
| 08:29.40 | tigert | it's konsole, but it has useful buttons in a toolbar |
| 08:29.46 | tigert | I miss that in rxvt |
| 08:29.54 | tigert | I wonder how big a vte-based term would be |
| 08:30.00 | florian | would be really cool to get some help getting a cool autfit for gpe! |
| 08:30.33 | tigert | florian: one first tip: |
| 08:30.39 | tigert | remove the shadows from the desktop labels |
| 08:30.48 | tigert | those fonts are so thin it makes them hard to read |
| 08:30.59 | tigert | better have just a normal text |
| 08:31.25 | florian | tigert: yep, this is a default mallum added - i think he usually test this on larger displays... |
| 08:32.32 | florian | tigert: the idea was to make it readable on every background... i'd prefer ti find out how dark/light the bg is and switch the font from black to white if necessary. |
| 08:34.08 | tigert | well yea |
| 08:34.15 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.32111.png |
| 08:34.18 | tigert | that could be hard though |
| 08:34.32 | tigert | but yea |
| 08:34.34 | tigert | just like that |
| 08:34.56 | tigert | one should make the ABC in light gray though |
| 08:35.02 | tigert | and maybe .. wait |
| 08:35.15 | florian | yes, especially for background images |
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| 08:56.08 | tigert | no, I mean for the typepad |
| 08:57.21 | florian | ah, ok - i still was at the labels... |
| 08:57.56 | florian | hm but you are right, this would look nicer... |
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| 09:00.07 | florian | hi cmarqu_werk |
| 09:02.48 | cmarqu_werk | Hiya |
| 09:03.11 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@82-35-112-58.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 09:06.26 | florian | mallum: mornign |
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| 09:14.08 | pb_ | morning |
| 09:14.33 | mallum | hey |
| 09:16.28 | florian | hp pb_ |
| 09:16.44 | florian | s/hp/hi |
| 09:17.14 | tigert | florian: http://tigert.gimp.org/files/gpe-mockups/gpe-scratchpad-mockup.pnghttp://tigert.gimp.org/files/gpe-mockups/gpe-scratchpad-mockup.png |
| 09:17.18 | tigert | eek |
| 09:17.21 | tigert | http://tigert.gimp.org/files/gpe-mockups/gpe-scratchpad-mockup.png |
| 09:17.23 | tigert | that I mean |
| 09:17.29 | tigert | something like that |
| 09:18.12 | tigert | the buttons are from the top: backspace, enter, "up" cursor, configure, help |
| 09:18.21 | tigert | if there is a config util for the handwriting stuff |
| 09:19.41 | florian | hey, this looks really cool! |
| 09:20.58 | florian | tigert: ok, i think this is not that much work and will make this tool much more usable... |
| 09:21.02 | tigert | yes |
| 09:21.15 | tigert | since if it *does* have the areas for CAPS / norm / numbers |
| 09:21.17 | florian | ok, it has another problem - it needs too long to start... |
| 09:21.19 | tigert | then it is good to show them |
| 09:21.40 | tigert | what size are icons on the "panel"? |
| 09:22.24 | florian | 16x16 usually (on ipaq) |
| 09:22.52 | mallum | tigert: you should probably make 16x16 and 48x48 ones if possible as on things like the c700 the dock is too small at 20px |
| 09:23.01 | tigert | yea |
| 09:23.05 | tigert | well |
| 09:23.07 | tigert | there is this one thing |
| 09:23.21 | tigert | dom said he was working on a non-floating point version of a svg library |
| 09:23.31 | tigert | svg would be a good thing here when everyones screen is different size |
| 09:23.43 | florian | yep, really... |
| 09:23.44 | mallum | tigert: yeah that would rock, |
| 09:24.05 | florian | mallum: are you th maintainer of merlin? |
| 09:24.43 | mallum | florian: hmm kinda |
| 09:25.13 | florian | mallum: :-)))))) |
| 09:25.26 | mallum | florian: I just hacked it togeather quickly ... its got a big issue namely very slow startup time I dont think can be worked around |
| 09:25.51 | florian | mallum: ok, where in cvs is it? |
| 09:27.12 | mallum | florian: on my machine here :/ |
| 09:27.44 | mallum | tigert: is dom author of librsvg ? |
| 09:28.05 | tigert | I think yes |
| 09:28.08 | tigert | at least he hacks on it |
| 09:28.16 | mallum | tigert: I think most of the fp is in libart |
| 09:28.21 | tigert | yes |
| 09:28.23 | tigert | so he has this other lib |
| 09:28.26 | tigert | that doesnt use libart |
| 09:28.30 | tigert | to do svg |
| 09:28.31 | mallum | aha, cool |
| 09:28.37 | tigert | mail him, ask Jim |
| 09:28.44 | tigert | I hooked them together in Guadec this year |
| 09:28.48 | tigert | I dunno what came out of it |
| 09:28.56 | tigert | but I think SVG would be interesting for this stuff |
| 09:29.02 | pb_ | yeah, indeed |
| 09:30.22 | mallum | tigert: cairo performance is OK on the ipaq |
| 09:30.22 | florian | mallum: what about adding it to apps cvs? :-) |
| 09:30.52 | mallum | florian: yes I'll add it to my svn repo, cos CVS is like so 2002 |
| 09:31.08 | tigert | what is "cairo"? |
| 09:31.19 | tigert | the handwriting thing? |
| 09:31.22 | mallum | tigert: cairographics.org |
| 09:31.32 | mallum | tigert: its xr/xc renamed |
| 09:32.18 | mallum | tigert: its also what libxsvg uses |
| 09:33.00 | florian | mallum: :-/ i'd definitely prefer hh cvs... |
| 09:33.16 | tigert | ooh ok |
| 09:33.26 | tigert | mallum: so how about using that in gpe? |
| 09:33.28 | tigert | or is it large? |
| 09:34.36 | mallum | tigert: its still pretty early days for it, unstable api, unoptimised etc but definetly something to consider for the future - theres a gtk theme engine that uses it though ( havn't tried it ) |
| 09:35.12 | mallum | tigert: I think owen plans to use cairo in GTK pretty heavily in the future too |
| 09:35.13 | tigert | yep |
| 09:35.22 | *** join/#gpe nilsf (~nils@kc.celox-online.de) |
| 09:35.28 | tigert | then it definitely sounds like a good thing to think for the future |
| 09:35.40 | tigert | we are thinking of making SVG icons for gnome anyway |
| 09:35.51 | tigert | because also normal screens get a lot higher DPI these days |
| 09:35.57 | mallum | yep indeed, makes sense |
| 09:35.59 | tigert | so your 24x24 icons can be insanely small |
| 09:36.30 | mallum | florian: do you have rights to set up a CVS repo on hh.org ? |
| 09:38.40 | florian | mallum: yes, i think so - at least in apps - i added prismstumbler soem time ago |
| 09:38.54 | mallum | tigert: oh you should probabaly see this http://handhelds.org/~mallum/matchbox/manual/themes/ |
| 09:39.23 | mallum | florian: okey, if you can set up a mbmerlin repo I'll import it for you |
| 09:41.50 | florian | mallum: ok, let me try... |
| 09:43.36 | tigert | ok |
| 09:49.36 | tigert | whee |
| 09:49.47 | tigert | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.27541.png |
| 09:49.56 | tigert | now I think it's time to get back to gpe |
| 09:51.46 | HET2 | tigert: would you make some gpe scaps? |
| 09:51.51 | tigert | yes |
| 09:51.56 | tigert | once I install it |
| 09:52.12 | tigert | I know it's not very nice to scap the Qt one :) |
| 09:52.13 | mallum | tigert: everytime someone installs opie a kitten dies |
| 09:52.17 | tigert | but I got to flash it first |
| 09:52.26 | tigert | mallum: well, it is GPL, right? |
| 09:52.28 | HET2 | tigert: heh i am actually an opie lover :) |
| 09:52.39 | tigert | opie is nice |
| 09:52.41 | mallum | tigert: GPL dont help kittens |
| 09:52.42 | nilsf | mallum: :)) Huhu! |
| 09:52.44 | tigert | that doesnt mean gpe cannot be |
| 09:52.57 | HET2 | mallum: maybe so but everytime somebody installs gpe a bank of ram dies |
| 09:53.05 | tigert | haha |
| 09:53.17 | pb_ | HET2: heh |
| 09:53.57 | mallum | HET2: no stupid ! everytime someone installs GPE , a kitten is SAVED ! |
| 09:54.20 | HET2 | if i have to chose btw ram and kitten i go for ram... |
| 09:55.21 | florian | HET2: ok, there won't be many of your kind... |
| 09:55.33 | nilsf | HET2: Poor wildlife... |
| 09:55.49 | mallum | HET2: the difference in RAM usage between GPE & OPIE is small .... |
| 09:55.50 | HET2 | florian: well i have to confess the only reason i think that way is because there's no chance i can get gpe running on my 3130 |
| 09:55.58 | HET2 | florian: and i am too cheap for a new ipaq |
| 09:56.11 | mallum | HET2: can opie run on it ? |
| 09:56.14 | HET2 | mallum: yes around 1-2mb but those are the 1-2 crucial mbs which prevent me from trying it |
| 09:56.16 | HET2 | mallum: yes |
| 09:56.16 | nilsf | HET2: The 3130 was the monchrome one? |
| 09:56.20 | HET2 | yes |
| 09:57.07 | HET2 | and i havent yet seen a gpe distro with an xserver which is smaller than the qt fb server |
| 09:57.07 | HET2 | alas |
| 09:57.25 | mallum | HET2: how big is the qt fb server ? |
| 09:57.38 | HET2 | urm |
| 09:58.20 | nilsf | mallum: There is not fb "server"... |
| 09:58.29 | nilsf | mallum: The first app that is started becomes the server (AFAIK). |
| 09:58.38 | HET2 | well libqpe upk is 464 |
| 09:58.42 | HET2 | and the libqte is 1.2mb |
| 09:58.47 | HET2 | so ~2mb for gfx io |
| 09:58.54 | HET2 | fewer |
| 09:59.05 | nilsf | HET2: The lib disk-space is more or less irrelevant. |
| 09:59.07 | HET2 | that's 464kb |
| 09:59.20 | HET2 | nilsf: when your onboard flash is 16mb any diskspace is relevant ;) |
| 09:59.50 | mallum | HET2: thats approx equal to tinyX and libs |
| 10:00.24 | nilsf | HET2: Sure... but all Familiar /and thus also GPE) images are tailored to 16MB Flash. |
| 10:00.57 | nilsf | HET2: The real problem is more the actual memory used at run-time! |
| 10:01.25 | HET2 | nilsf: dunno dude... last time i checked a gpe installation comparable to my opie installation was around 2mb larger |
| 10:01.47 | HET2 | and you can fit many ebooks into 2mb |
| 10:02.22 | HET2 | also as far as i remember gpe is based on python |
| 10:02.33 | HET2 | and python too eats diskspace en masse |
| 10:03.03 | florian | HET2: You should know better - gpe is pure C, python on pda sucks! |
| 10:03.05 | mallum | HET2: wtf are you smoking, GPE have *never* used Python |
| 10:03.14 | HET2 | florian: my point exactly |
| 10:03.50 | HET2 | mallum: dont wtf you smoking me, i remember developing gtk python apps for the ipaq myself |
| 10:04.50 | mallum | HET2: like in 1999 ? |
| 10:04.51 | florian | HET2: Some people did, but at the moment this doesn't make sense at all - larege apps are to slow and python is too large. |
| 10:05.16 | mallum | HET2: please try and find one piece of python code in GPE CVS then |
| 10:06.32 | nilsf | Hoho... easy, folks, easy! No need to become rude... |
| 10:06.40 | HET2 | nilsf: word |
| 10:06.55 | mallum | nilsf: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
| 10:06.58 | mallum | hehe |
| 10:07.07 | florian | ROTFL |
| 10:07.22 | mallum | nilsf: we should all save out rudeness for mailing lists |
| 10:07.45 | nilsf | mallum: Or the dustbin... |
| 10:07.58 | mallum | nilsf: no fun :( |
| 10:08.20 | nilsf | Back on track. |
| 10:08.28 | mallum | nilsf: just familiar list then ? |
| 10:08.42 | nilsf | GPE is 100% base on X11, GTK+ V2.2 and pure C. |
| 10:08.52 | HET2 | does gpe have a pdf viewer these days? |
| 10:08.53 | nilsf | mallum: Hmm... a little and most to OPIE, OK :) ? |
| 10:09.00 | mallum | nilsf: okie ;-) |
| 10:09.01 | nilsf | HET2: Not yet. |
| 10:09.32 | mallum | HET2: you calm down, or I set my pugs on you :-) |
| 10:09.40 | HET2 | i am calm :) |
| 10:09.57 | HET2 | mallum: i am not wanting to troll, seriously |
| 10:10.10 | HET2 | just refurbishing my attitude towards gpe |
| 10:10.11 | nilsf | HET2: The problem I see with PDF is that PDF files are fixed formatted for, say, letter paper or DIN-A4 but not for small PDA screens. |
| 10:10.16 | HET2 | which is obviously wrong |
| 10:11.21 | nilsf | HET2: Oh oh ... by flaming we will not generate a better picture... so Matthew... be nice to this guy! |
| 10:11.29 | HET2 | nilsf: i cant see where i am flaming |
| 10:11.40 | nilsf | HET2: Not you :) |
| 10:11.42 | HET2 | oh |
| 10:12.11 | nilsf | HET2: Do your really use the PDF viewer a lot? |
| 10:12.20 | florian | mallum: Try if you can write to this: /cvs/apps/mbmerlin/ |
| 10:12.28 | nilsf | HET2: I am just wondering if it makes real sense... |
| 10:12.34 | HET2 | nilsf: there are those pdf maps of my uni campus |
| 10:12.41 | HET2 | nilsf: and it often makes sense to have them with you |
| 10:12.50 | nilsf | HET2: Ah OK... that could still make sense, yes. |
| 10:13.05 | tigert | can the bootloader dump the flash out to disk over serial? |
| 10:13.15 | HET2 | tigert: i am quite sure it can |
| 10:13.19 | nilsf | HET2: But for this purpose a bitmap would also be OK... |
| 10:13.42 | HET2 | you cant zoom nicely onto a bitmap |
| 10:13.47 | HET2 | :) |
| 10:13.53 | nilsf | tigert: Yes, similarly as you say "load root" a "save root" should work. |
| 10:14.10 | nilsf | HET2: Depends on the bitmap :) |
| 10:14.34 | HET2 | yes if you take a 2048x1024 bitmap it might be nice |
| 10:14.38 | nilsf | tigert: Do you have a CF jacket (sleeve) and CF card? |
| 10:14.47 | tigert | I have PCMCIA sleeve |
| 10:14.52 | nilsf | HET2: Gee... big campus! |
| 10:15.00 | pigeon | pb_: Heh, my boss has gone back to opie. |
| 10:15.00 | tigert | but only a smartmedia reader + card |
| 10:15.04 | pb_ | pigeon: Heh. |
| 10:15.06 | HET2 | nilsf: it's not that big, it's just spread around the city |
| 10:15.08 | nilsf | tigert: Ah, OK. |
| 10:15.09 | mallum | florian: okey one sec |
| 10:15.22 | pb_ | pigeon: Damn bosses. Mine still uses a Psion :-) |
| 10:15.31 | nilsf | HET2: Ah... sound fimiliar. In Siegen it's almost the same. |
| 10:15.41 | HET2 | <- vienna |
| 10:16.02 | nilsf | HET2: Oh cool, nice town! |
| 10:16.51 | HET2 | so... what are the advantages of gpe over opie? |
| 10:16.55 | HET2 | in your opinion |
| 10:17.28 | HET2 | from what i see on the screenshots it's basically the same thing |
| 10:17.37 | HET2 | even the icons are almost the same |
| 10:18.20 | nilsf | HET2: Let's say it's similar... "same" could be interpreted as mocking up something else or worse having stolen something :) |
| 10:18.22 | tigert | it uses gtk =) |
| 10:18.36 | HET2 | nilsf: i havent said who's mocking up who ;) |
| 10:19.15 | nilsf | The biggest advantage in my opinion, and this might not be everyone's else', is that we are using common standards. |
| 10:19.38 | HET2 | what do you mean by common standards |
| 10:19.38 | nilsf | This way we quite easily integrate into existing Linux environments. |
| 10:19.45 | nilsf | HET2: :) |
| 10:19.54 | nilsf | For example X11. |
| 10:20.15 | nilsf | But also the standards defined and refined at freedesktop.org. |
| 10:20.27 | nilsf | Stgandards like SQL for data storage. |
| 10:20.36 | nilsf | And so on... |
| 10:21.13 | nilsf | This all makes it a lot easier to develop applications, have them interact with others and integrate them. |
| 10:21.46 | mallum | florian: cvs server: ERROR: cannot write file /cvs/apps/mbmerlin/Makefile,v: Permission denied |
| 10:22.45 | florian | mallum: i think you have matchbox in this apps cvs?! who imported it? |
| 10:23.03 | florian | mallum: looks like you'll need an hh admin... |
| 10:24.15 | florian | s/an/a |
| 10:26.08 | mallum | florian: hmmm |
| 10:30.53 | pb_ | florian: what is it you need admin assistance with? |
| 10:31.59 | florian | pb_: allowing mallum to write to /cvs/apps/mbmerlin |
| 10:32.46 | pb_ | florian: do you want me to change the group ownership on that directory? |
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| 10:34.50 | florian | pb_: yes why not - i don't think the way to do it is that important... |
| 10:35.04 | florian | morning PaxAnima |
| 10:35.29 | PaxAnima | morning, florian |
| 10:36.31 | pb_ | florian: ok. that directory is owned by proj_gpe now. |
| 10:37.29 | mallum | I'll retry |
| 10:38.29 | mallum | pb_: cool worked, thank you very much sir |
| 10:39.49 | pb_ | cool |
| 10:41.27 | pb_ | btw, would you like to check your xstroke changes into cvs as well? |
| 10:43.21 | florian | pb_: great, thanks |
| 10:43.40 | mallum | pb_: sure, I just want to finish getting it autotool'd |
| 10:47.20 | pb_ | righto |
| 10:50.07 | mallum | its currently xmkmf evil |
| 10:52.03 | nilsf | Folks, bad news! |
| 10:52.21 | nilsf | OPIE people just did a bunch of press releases about their 1.0 release. |
| 10:52.42 | nilsf | Most of their claims are, in my opinion, at least questionable. |
| 10:52.59 | nilsf | I suggest we get our senses together and finilize our own release until sunday this weekend, OK? |
| 10:53.16 | nilsf | Including tarballs, press release, and all the drums and whistles. |
| 10:53.17 | mallum | nilsf: I think we should change nicks, enter #opie and 'fix' things ? |
| 10:53.47 | nilsf | mallum: Try to bend a diamond... |
| 10:55.06 | nilsf | mallum: MAybe it would just be fun but also a huge waste of time :) |
| 10:56.20 | mallum | nilsf: coffee wont calm you down |
| 10:56.33 | mallum | nilsf: I was only joking |
| 10:57.40 | opiekiller | we all like joking ;-) |
| 10:57.45 | nilsf | mallum: I did not at all meant you! I meant to calm down after reading those announcements... sorry if I wasn't clear enough... |
| 11:03.25 | nilsf | But back to the topic. |
| 11:03.59 | nilsf | Could that be a plan to finalize our already release until sunday? Would then make a nice monday morning headline on newtickers and such... |
| 11:05.50 | florian | ok, looks like i have to change some plans for this weekend... |
| 11:06.39 | nilsf | florian: Hm? Wasn't there an invitation for some birthday party? |
| 11:09.51 | florian | nilsf: on saturday evening... but that's all :-) |
| 11:16.45 | nilsf | mallum: Umm... "stag"? |
| 11:17.35 | mallum | nilsf: useally before wedding you go out with all male mates to celebrate last night of freedom |
| 11:18.24 | florian | :-) |
| 11:21.12 | nilsf | mallum: Ah, I see :) Have fun! It might be your last :) |
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| 11:45.16 | pb_ | btw, thinking of releases, we should give some thought to what packages we would want to include in the next maintenance release of Familiar (either 0.7.1 or 0.7.2). My view at the moment is that we should make this release from unstable rather than taking an "0.7+minimal updates" position, but I'm not sure how realistic that will be in practice. |
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| 11:49.46 | florian | additionally we should think about which parts of gpe ned fresh packages... |
| 11:50.09 | pb_ | Right. |
| 11:52.32 | pb_ | mallum: with mbdock --default-apps, can I specify which side of the panel I want the program to end up on? |
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| 12:07.27 | mallum | pb_: specify '-o -1' for it to end up on the left, if not it will be on the right. Im trying to keep launchers to the left, everything else to the right |
| 12:10.15 | mallum | florian: I commited a new matchbox to unstable, with the alternate desktop behaviour, enable it by starting matchbox with -use_desktop_mode decorated |
| 12:11.00 | florian | mallum: ah, cool |
| 12:11.22 | mallum | florian: it may break, I havn't heavily tested it |
| 12:11.49 | florian | mallum: ok, i'll be careful when testing it :-) |
| 12:12.10 | mallum | florian: no need to be careful, finding bugs is good |
| 12:15.31 | florian | mallum: ok :-) |
| 12:18.06 | tigert | hey |
| 12:18.11 | tigert | the wavelan config is weird |
| 12:18.14 | tigert | should it work? |
| 12:18.19 | tigert | it cannot get my ESSID right ever |
| 12:18.25 | tigert | I always need to re-enter it there |
| 12:18.29 | tigert | well |
| 12:18.36 | tigert | I need to set it with iwconfig from the terminal |
| 12:19.53 | grib | tigert: it has worked for me, but it does it by autoediting /etc/pcmcia/wireless.opts, so it's rawther brittle |
| 12:21.09 | pb_ | http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=73555&cid=6613277 |
| 12:21.10 | pb_ | heh |
| 12:21.21 | grib | tigert: if there's an ESSID="any" config line in that file it might just be grabbing the first AP that responds... are you in a 'target-rich' wireless environment? |
| 12:21.22 | florian | tigert: where did you enter your essid? |
| 12:23.34 | tigert | no |
| 12:23.59 | tigert | florian: well, I tried to put it in the "WLAN Config" |
| 12:24.37 | florian | tigert: ok, just to be sure - yo are using gpe now? |
| 12:24.43 | tigert | yes |
| 12:24.47 | tigert | now I flashed it to gpe |
| 12:25.06 | tigert | I was just checking out Qpie |
| 12:25.30 | florian | tigert: did you edit the first entry in the list? |
| 12:26.02 | tigert | it has a entry with *'s |
| 12:26.16 | tigert | what should I do? |
| 12:26.30 | tigert | it looks a bit confusing and apparently I dont know what to do with it |
| 12:26.36 | tigert | I tried to edit the one with the asterisks |
| 12:26.59 | florian | ah, ok - yes - the older familiar wireless.opts came with many of them... |
| 12:27.13 | florian | ok, gpe-wlancfg is not that perfect... |
| 12:28.07 | tigert | yea |
| 12:28.15 | tigert | *cough* just copy the UI from qpie :) |
| 12:28.22 | tigert | it was pretty Ok |
| 12:28.36 | tigert | besides, it is beneficial to have similar config tools anyway |
| 12:28.48 | florian | yep |
| 12:30.29 | florian | tigert: ok, you should have your ESSID in /etc/pcmcia/wireless.opts |
| 12:31.30 | mallum | tigert: I just discovered this :: http://gtk-themes.cairographics.org/ |
| 12:32.03 | pb_ | oh, that sounds cute. |
| 12:32.11 | tigert | wow |
| 12:32.22 | tigert | florian: no, I can setup it with iwconfig |
| 12:32.28 | tigert | but should the GUI tool work? |
| 12:33.04 | florian | tigert: this is really bad, the tool should work - i just tried it. |
| 12:34.33 | tigert | ok |
| 12:34.38 | tigert | the thing is |
| 12:34.43 | tigert | it probably "just works" for many |
| 12:34.49 | tigert | because they have public essid's |
| 12:34.54 | tigert | mine is "s3kr1t" :) |
| 12:35.02 | tigert | meaning you need to guess it to get in the network |
| 12:35.22 | tigert | so who should I tell these issues / comments about the UI? |
| 12:35.36 | tigert | there are a lot of small things that are easy and can improve the usability a lot |
| 12:35.38 | florian | tigert: this shouldn't be the problem - i just changed my essid and it showed up in the file. |
| 12:36.25 | pb_ | tigert: filing reports in bugzilla would be one option. |
| 12:36.45 | tigert | ok |
| 12:36.51 | tigert | florian: hmm |
| 12:37.30 | tigert | florian: the ESSID is there |
| 12:37.36 | tigert | florian: but I think it never gets used |
| 12:37.40 | tigert | lemme see |
| 12:37.42 | tigert | how can I test? |
| 12:37.54 | tigert | unplug the card and it should restart the network? |
| 12:38.15 | florian | tigert: For gpe-wlancfg tell me or Nils - he created this kind of interface. It was intended to provide full functionality of wireless.opts |
| 12:38.23 | florian | tigert: yes, this should work |
| 12:38.40 | tigert | hmm |
| 12:38.48 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:38.50 | tigert | it worked now |
| 12:38.57 | florian | tigert: It definitely needs at least an other default interface: a way more simple one. |
| 12:39.22 | tigert | the UI needs a bit of help too |
| 12:39.23 | florian | tigert: ok - then the activation of the changes is broken :-/ |
| 12:39.27 | tigert | or it could have a wizard |
| 12:39.32 | tigert | check out how Qpie does it |
| 12:39.36 | tigert | they have pretty nicely done stuff there |
| 12:39.50 | tigert | and I am not saying this to mock gpe |
| 12:40.06 | tigert | but it was pretty impressive and usable thing |
| 12:40.07 | florian | tigert: Opie has a simpler UI that provides basic parameters for a simple setup... |
| 12:40.58 | tigert | yea |
| 12:41.00 | tigert | well |
| 12:41.04 | tigert | they have two separate tools |
| 12:41.09 | tigert | one for wavelan essid stuff |
| 12:41.15 | tigert | and another for network setup |
| 12:41.48 | florian | tigert: Yes, they really have - but they have TT and two years of development in advance... |
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| 12:42.38 | tigert | yep sure |
| 12:42.41 | florian | tigert: you need to set up the ip networking stuff in gpe with the network setup tool too. |
| 12:42.43 | tigert | I mean, dont get me wrong |
| 12:44.21 | florian | sure :-) |
| 12:45.14 | florian | on the oher hand... Max likes to try teasing us with pointing to things that may be "stolen" from opie :-/ |
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| 12:48.05 | tigert | florian: well yea, it is a good thing to have common UI concepts |
| 12:48.19 | tigert | florian: plus there's no need to reinvent wheels on UI design if there are good ones to use |
| 12:48.37 | tigert | like the cut/paste button popup |
| 12:48.43 | tigert | that is awesome |
| 12:50.29 | florian | tigert: really... |
| 12:50.47 | florian | tigert: but maybe patented in the us ;-) |
| 12:52.15 | florian | ok, this wasn't intended to be taken that serious :-) |
| 12:53.37 | tigert | :) |
| 12:56.04 | tigert | hm |
| 12:56.08 | tigert | so the problem was |
| 12:56.15 | tigert | the network was not started on bootup |
| 12:56.30 | tigert | was there some [x] activate on boot thing? |
| 12:57.32 | moray | I doubt 'activate on boot' is generally useful; 'activate on card insertion' may be, but I thought that should be happening? |
| 12:57.34 | florian | tigert: maybe a problem of an unrecognized card or jacket - this happens from time to time. |
| 12:57.53 | tigert | this is "Enterasys" wavelan card |
| 12:57.59 | mallum | dhcp bug ? |
| 12:58.00 | moray | ('on boot' could occur before the card had been found) |
| 12:58.04 | tigert | it does work once I reinsert the card I think |
| 12:58.11 | tigert | moray: yea, good point |
| 12:58.19 | moray | Sounds like a Familiar problem, rather than GPE, anyway ;) |
| 12:59.09 | florian | it is - but i don't know why - sometimes if you boot with a wlan card inserted it is not recognized... |
| 12:59.11 | moray | tigert: (Though if we needed an option I suppose 'Start automatically' or something would be reasonable for end-users) |
| 12:59.29 | tigert | yea |
| 12:59.31 | tigert | although |
| 12:59.40 | tigert | I guess if you insert a card, you *want* it to start |
| 12:59.56 | tigert | florian: lemme try booting once more |
| 12:59.56 | moray | yes, I don't think it really needs to be a visible option |
| 13:00.04 | tigert | yep |
| 13:00.14 | tigert | a lot of stuff should "just work" in linux also on the desktop |
| 13:00.20 | moray | Indeed. |
| 13:01.40 | mallum | Bluetooth 'just works' |
| 13:01.42 | mallum | hahahahaha |
| 13:03.25 | tigert | argh, this forgets screen calibration |
| 13:03.41 | tigert | and there is no way to click that menu button now to get the keyboard to input the root pwd |
| 13:03.58 | tigert | (should I need to give root pwd to calibrate the screen anyway?) |
| 13:04.27 | nilsf | All: Please have a look at the mailinglist... |
| 13:04.46 | mallum | nilsf: what one ? |
| 13:05.00 | nilsf | mallum: On what channel are you speaking :) ? |
| 13:05.12 | mallum | #opie ? |
| 13:05.23 | nilsf | mallum: 8-} |
| 13:05.48 | nilsf | Argh... seems hh.org mailinglists are a little slow today... |
| 13:06.00 | mallum | tigert: how do you mean ? |
| 13:06.14 | nilsf | Ah, here it comes. |
| 13:06.30 | mallum | yeah I got it |
| 13:06.39 | florian | let's rock! |
| 13:06.42 | pb_ | tigert: no, you shouldn't really need root to calibrate the display. |
| 13:07.03 | tigert | it needs a LOT of root passwords too |
| 13:07.09 | mallum | nilsf: ended up in spam folder as had 'Nils Faerber ' in subject line ... ;-) |
| 13:07.33 | tigert | I think one should be able to configure those things without a password really |
| 13:07.43 | tigert | the ipaq is not that much of a multiuser thing |
| 13:07.57 | nilsf | pb_: Albeit this is a very crucial operation. A messed calibration can render a device unusable... but that's another problem :) |
| 13:08.00 | tigert | alternately it could have a [x] Lock configuration functionality |
| 13:08.18 | tigert | nilsf: you can render the ipaq unusable a lot easier too if you have it on your hand |
| 13:08.22 | tigert | *smash* |
| 13:08.24 | nilsf | tigert: At least for settings you can disable this by allowing settings for users. This is part of GPE conf... |
| 13:08.36 | tigert | nilsf: that didnt work for me :( |
| 13:08.52 | nilsf | tigert: Hu... it should ... florian ? |
| 13:09.31 | tigert | maybe I need to try again |
| 13:09.50 | nilsf | tigert: It might be that this only works after new login... I am not sure. |
| 13:10.25 | nilsf | pb_: Would you happen to have some time this weekend to help with the release finalising? |
| 13:10.45 | pb_ | nilsf: Yep, I should think so. |
| 13:10.50 | pb_ | I was just reading your note on the mailing list. |
| 13:11.43 | tigert | ook, the network is working now |
| 13:11.46 | tigert | when I plug in the card |
| 13:11.49 | florian | maybe ther is a problem when entering the wrong password... |
| 13:11.52 | tigert | ok, bbl |
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| 13:12.50 | florian | nope, should be ok and work instantly :-/ |
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| 13:13.43 | florian | hello jblack |
| 13:13.52 | jblack | Wow! |
| 13:13.56 | jblack | Hello florian! |
| 13:14.35 | florian | :-) |
| 13:15.19 | jblack | I was trying to decide between opie and gpe, and I was asking if there were cmparisons available, but I think I've already seen a difference. :) |
| 13:17.07 | jblack | I do have one question though. Wrt gpe, would I be better with the 0.7.0 or 0.7.1 version of familiar? |
| 13:18.47 | florian | jblack: i'd suggest to try the stable 0.7 - updating to current unstable state or 0.7.1 won't be that complicated. |
| 13:19.07 | jblack | Ok. |
| 13:27.52 | nilsf | pb_: Sorry, got a phone call... Perfect! This weekend will become some kind of pool-party event then :) |
| 13:29.06 | jblack | I haven't seen things since familiar 0.3. Am I in for a treat? |
| 13:30.01 | mallum | jblack: as long as you havn't got a 3100, then yes :-) |
| 13:31.24 | jblack | I'm up to a 3955 actually. |
| 13:51.15 | tigert | oopsie |
| 13:51.32 | tigert | the "df" in the ipaq does not understand 120GB nfs shares |
| 13:51.40 | pb_ | heh |
| 13:52.28 | nilsf | tigert: :) What does happen? |
| 13:52.45 | tigert | stonesoup:/export/raid118014398501093376 0 18014398501093376 0% /mnt/stonesoup/raid1 |
| 13:52.56 | tigert | the share is mounted on /mnt/stonesoup/raid1 |
| 13:53.07 | tigert | it probably overflows the size or such |
| 13:53.11 | nilsf | :)) |
| 13:53.14 | nilsf | Seems so. |
| 13:56.41 | *** join/#gpe jblack (~jblack@mercury.merconline.com) |
| 13:56.50 | jblack | I forgot how exciting doing this was. |
| 13:57.17 | tigert | mount: nfsmount failed: Success |
| 13:57.19 | jblack | I almost forgot how terrified I was in the 0.3 days that I would brick my ipaq. |
| 13:57.19 | tigert | umm |
| 13:57.36 | tigert | jblack: flashing the thing? |
| 13:57.41 | tigert | the bootloader is l33t |
| 13:58.05 | jblack | Yeah. It looks better these days. I can even use a cf card now. Neato! |
| 13:58.46 | *** join/#gpe mallum_ (~mallum@82-35-112-58.cable.ubr07.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:59.20 | nilsf | Oh cool, look at http://www.cacko.biz/hybrid.html |
| 13:59.40 | nilsf | They have a modified Sharp Zaurus 5x00 ROM that post-install the GUI! |
| 13:59.48 | nilsf | Perfect start for GPE I would think :) |
| 13:59.55 | jblack | I hated the sharp zaurus 5500. |
| 14:00.06 | jblack | I was actually happy when i cracked the screen. |
| 14:00.06 | nilsf | jblack: Why that? |
| 14:00.39 | jblack | Because it came with Qpe and all sorts of proprietary software. |
| 14:01.01 | nilsf | jblack: Oh OK. So it was more the software that turned you down than the hardware? |
| 14:01.07 | jblack | That really niggled me. If I had wanted proprietary software, I wouldn't have gotten a linux pda but a wince one. |
| 14:01.40 | jblack | The hardware bugged me a little too. A lot of special touches you see on ipaqs didn't exist on the zaurus. |
| 14:01.43 | tigert | jblack: doesnt qpie or gpe run in it? |
| 14:01.48 | nilsf | jblack: Yes, it seems that vendors have not yet understood what a Linux PDA means. |
| 14:02.05 | mallum_ | nilsf: just use OZ .... |
| 14:02.30 | nilsf | jblack: What touches you mean? Me for example like the keyboard and the newer Zarus C7x0 with its large screen in special. |
| 14:02.38 | tigert | hmm |
| 14:02.46 | tigert | should nfs mounts work on familiar? |
| 14:02.50 | tigert | this hangs |
| 14:03.08 | nilsf | tigert: Oh, try the "-o nolock" option! |
| 14:03.17 | jblack | Well, no speaker, irda in the wrong place, no light sensor. |
| 14:03.30 | tigert | oh |
| 14:03.31 | jblack | Just a bunch of small details. |
| 14:03.31 | nilsf | Ah, I see. That's true. |
| 14:04.27 | jblack | I found the nifty keypad much too small to be of any use for my fat fingers, so that was always closed. Just a lot of small stuff that made me miss ipaqs. |
| 14:05.09 | tigert | oh btw, who hacks on the "rotate" thingy on gpe? |
| 14:05.24 | tigert | it could rotate the screen right instead of left |
| 14:05.32 | tigert | so you have the cursor on your right hand |
| 14:05.35 | moray | jblack: nils is talking about the newer Japan-only Zaurus |
| 14:06.13 | jblack | Oh. I was so unhappy with the 5500d that there's no way I would ever rick dumping that much money again |
| 14:06.56 | jblack | One only buys a ford once. |
| 14:07.53 | tigert | hmm |
| 14:09.03 | tigert | what does the "teleport" do? |
| 14:09.18 | moray | tigert: display migration UI |
| 14:09.29 | moray | tigert: e.g. move windows between displays |
| 14:09.35 | moray | s/e.g./i.e./ |
| 14:09.38 | mallum_ | tigert: the roate thing is mine |
| 14:10.15 | mallum_ | tigert: I can change it to right if you think it makes more sense |
| 14:10.34 | mallum_ | tigert: Im kind of undecided I guess |
| 14:10.59 | tigert | well |
| 14:11.01 | tigert | actually |
| 14:11.06 | tigert | I am left handed |
| 14:11.10 | tigert | maybe that is why it makes sense for me |
| 14:11.20 | tigert | since I can use stylus on left hand |
| 14:11.24 | tigert | and the buttons on right |
| 14:11.35 | tigert | maybe it needs to cycle all those directions? |
| 14:11.53 | mallum_ | tigert: aha, it'd be easy to change for yourself, its only a shell script :-) |
| 14:12.41 | mallum_ | tigert: I guess it would be advatageous as a whole if GPE could be told if the user was less/right heanded knowing that may be useful for a few things |
| 14:13.43 | tigert | yes |
| 14:13.47 | tigert | that would be better |
| 14:13.50 | tigert | in the user profile |
| 14:13.55 | tigert | [x] I am left handed |
| 14:13.56 | tigert | or something |
| 14:14.07 | tigert | ok, got to run, later |
| 14:14.10 | mallum_ | tigert: see /usr/bin/xrandr-panelapp.sh |
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| 14:14.38 | mallum_ | tigert: just change all instances of 'left' to 'right' |
| 14:15.15 | mallum_ | has anyone tried out the gcj eclispe ? |
| 14:15.24 | tigert | the panel moves to the right though |
| 14:15.28 | tigert | it should rotate too I guess |
| 14:15.33 | tigert | so it is in the bottom |
| 14:15.45 | mallum_ | tigert: yeah, that can be done |
| 14:16.17 | mallum_ | tigert: I have to mess around add various bits of xrandr detection to the build scripts so Im yet to motivate myself as yet to do it |
| 14:16.27 | tigert | eek there is a bug |
| 14:16.36 | tigert | the cursor thingy gets confused |
| 14:16.44 | tigert | mallum: ok |
| 14:16.50 | tigert | but anyway, later! :) |
| 14:22.09 | mallum_ | hmm, the gtk-cario themes are slow even on my 2ghz athlon :/ |
| 14:24.40 | jblack | I'm sorry, but I'm stuck during a bootldr install after waiting 15 seconds. |
| 14:24.42 | mallum_ | hmm, maybe not that slow dunno |
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| 14:24.59 | jblack | The screen currently shows and open dialogue |
| 14:25.43 | jblack | Ok. that's a real open. |
| 14:25.53 | jblack | Which file do I want bootblaster to install? |
| 14:26.24 | pb_ | bootldr-2.20.4.bin |
| 14:26.37 | pb_ | oh, probably bootldr-pxa-... in fact |
| 14:26.51 | jblack | Yeah. |
| 14:26.56 | jblack | There were two of them. |
| 14:27.06 | jblack | Ok. bootblaster says "mach_type set to 203 = 0xcb ." |
| 14:27.15 | pb_ | That's ok. |
| 14:27.45 | jblack | cool. verified. |
| 14:27.46 | jblack | shew |
| 14:31.36 | jblack | darn. can't r ead my control file. |
| 14:36.03 | jblack | be back in a moment. I oops when I eject cf cards from my laptop. :( |
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| 14:45.56 | jblack | Ok. I've asked in #familiar why bootldr doesn't like the control file. |
| 14:51.52 | jblack | They're awfully quiet in #familiar. |
| 14:52.03 | mallum_ | jblack: #familiar is alway quiet |
| 14:52.12 | mallum_ | jblack: most ppl are in #handhelds.org |
| 14:52.19 | jblack | Ahhh. |
| 15:01.29 | mallum_ | Anyone have an idea where debian sticks it user cron logs ? |
| 15:18.25 | nilsf | mallum_: What are you looking for? If there is any output from your cron job you should get an email I think... |
| 15:18.56 | mallum_ | nilsf: yeah, not even getting that |
| 15:19.28 | mallum_ | nilsf: very odd |
| 15:25.34 | pb_ | Yow, these Yopy dudes are still using kernel 2.4.2. |
| 15:26.06 | mallum_ | life of the trailing edge eh |
| 15:26.16 | florian | yep, hard to believe.... |
| 15:28.06 | nilsf | pb_: But it is working. |
| 15:28.35 | nilsf | pb_: I yasked the guy from yopy.at the same question and it seems that people don't care much about it as long as it works. |
| 15:28.37 | pb_ | nilsf: Yep. |
| 15:28.56 | nilsf | But they will have a problem on their upgrade path though... |
| 15:29.04 | pb_ | nilsf: Just makes it more painful to add drivers for example. |
| 15:29.46 | *** part/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 15:29.58 | nilsf | That's what I meant about upgrade path :) |
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| 15:43.51 | florian | bbl |
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| 16:14.08 | nilsf | Hi Paul! |
| 16:14.16 | nilsf | How's wather in Ireland right now? |
| 16:14.17 | paul | hi nilsf! |
| 16:14.25 | nilsf | I meant weather... |
| 16:14.26 | paul | raining :) |
| 16:14.31 | nilsf | Really!? |
| 16:14.49 | paul | quite warm today, then we got thunder/lightning and rain in late afternoon,. |
| 16:14.52 | paul | yep :) |
| 16:15.07 | paul | wie gehst im deutchland? |
| 16:15.37 | paul | das wetter gut? (/me says while butchering the german language) |
| 16:16.34 | nilsf | Gut? No expression! Birghtest sunshine all day and depending on the region up to 40 degree cent.! |
| 16:17.05 | paul | ah stop it.. |
| 16:17.13 | nilsf | I wish I could :) |
| 16:17.14 | paul | woohoo. |
| 16:17.25 | moray | pretty hot here, though now greying (in preparation for a thunderstorm?) |
| 16:17.28 | paul | nilsf: you know where the ryanair website is :) |
| 16:17.37 | paul | moray: thats what we have here |
| 16:17.51 | paul | nilsf: maybe you should move to ireland. |
| 16:18.10 | moray | hm, I should go and look for a train to London soon (just in case I accidentally stayed in the same place for too long, couldn't have that...) |
| 16:18.22 | nilsf | paul: Believe it or not but we had a little thought on this while on our trip through it... |
| 16:18.35 | paul | nilsf: :) |
| 16:18.48 | paul | nilsf: if you like rain, ireland is the place to be (especially west of ireland) |
| 16:19.23 | nilsf | paul: We had almost two weeks of sunshine... mostly unusual from what you say... |
| 16:19.42 | paul | nilfs: http://www.met.ie/climate/rainfall.asp |
| 16:20.15 | paul | 2m of rain/annum is not unusual. some places even get > 2.8m. |
| 16:21.01 | paul | btw, is it just me or is matchbox and ancillary matchbox apps (eg dock) a bit screwed at the moment? |
| 16:21.36 | mallum_ | paul: in terms of packages ? |
| 16:22.02 | paul | mallum_: no, in terms of matchbox quiting if i start an app. :) |
| 16:22.11 | mallum_ | paul: hehe |
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| 16:22.26 | paul | mallum: if i start gpe-calendar displaying to my desktop - fine. |
| 16:22.44 | mallum_ | paul: what version of matchbox ? |
| 16:23.08 | paul | mallum: if i start it (or anything else) from the desktop, or even from CLI displaying to local display - i get plonked straight back to the gpe-login screen. |
| 16:23.20 | paul | mallum: err.. what ever is in unstable at moment. |
| 16:23.32 | *** join/#gpe jblack (~jblack@mercury.merconline.com) |
| 16:23.32 | mallum_ | paul: I uplaoded new packages this morning |
| 16:23.40 | paul | ah yes.. |
| 16:23.56 | paul | mallum: still quits on me though. |
| 16:24.11 | mallum_ | paul: can you do a matchbox -v |
| 16:24.26 | paul | 0.5rc3 |
| 16:24.47 | mallum_ | paul: I split matchbox up into seperate packages and it seem ipkg has decided to royally fuck everything |
| 16:24.53 | paul | aha.. |
| 16:24.57 | paul | what am i missing? |
| 16:25.05 | mallum_ | paul: 0.6.3.summin is in unstable |
| 16:25.28 | paul | ah yes.. |
| 16:25.51 | mallum_ | paul: there is a thread on the fam mailing list about it |
| 16:25.54 | paul | right, let me update matchbox-{wm,panel}. |
| 16:26.16 | mallum_ | paul: the trick it seems is to ipkg remove matchbox, then ipkg install libmb1 matchbox-* |
| 16:26.23 | paul | aha |
| 16:28.49 | paul | mallum_: 'ipkg: invalid magic' on the install command (??) |
| 16:29.13 | paul | that might have been a bad shell expansion.. |
| 16:29.16 | mallum_ | paul: I would just wget ipkgs and untar them to / |
| 16:29.21 | mallum_ | paul: ;-) |
| 16:29.45 | mallum_ | paul: oh dont put the actual *, imagine you are bash and do the completion with brain |
| 16:29.51 | paul | LOL |
| 16:29.58 | paul | mallum_: ok :) |
| 16:33.55 | paul | hmm.... now i cant even login. i did: ipkg install libmb1 matchbox-wm matchbox-panel matchbox-panel-hacks matchbox-desktop matchbox-common |
| 16:34.10 | mallum_ | paul: check ipkg has actually installed them |
| 16:34.37 | paul | mallum_: no it hasnt |
| 16:34.47 | mallum_ | 3 cheers for ipkg |
| 16:35.26 | mallum_ | paul: I discovered if you run ipkg with -V 2 it actually tells you what its doing ! |
| 16:36.24 | paul | mallum_: aha, it might have been a conflict with mb-themes. removing that and trying again. |
| 16:36.36 | mallum_ | paul: cool |
| 16:36.51 | mallum_ | paul: hmm, mb-themes should have been nuked long ago |
| 16:37.17 | jblack | WOW! |
| 16:37.34 | jblack | You guys are... wow |
| 16:37.48 | paul | mallum_: ah, i tend to not reinstall gpe - i ipkg upgrade all the time. |
| 16:38.03 | paul | mallum_: ipkg doesnt seem good at removing obsolete stuff. |
| 16:38.18 | mallum_ | paul: indeed :/ |
| 16:38.31 | mallum_ | paul: iirc 5.x should have conflicted with it |
| 16:38.55 | paul | how big is dpkg again? (with dependencies?) |
| 16:39.00 | mallum_ | too big |
| 16:39.27 | mallum_ | I think someone just needs to manage ipkg |
| 16:39.40 | mallum_ | It seems at the moment its just a hot potato which is passed around |
| 16:42.09 | mallum_ | paul: your a sysadmin right ? |
| 16:42.20 | paul | was, yes. |
| 16:42.27 | mallum_ | no more ? |
| 16:43.08 | paul | mallum_: i'm in a state of flux at the moment. |
| 16:43.17 | mallum_ | paul: unemployed ? |
| 16:43.23 | paul | mallum_: doing some consulting and sponging off savings. |
| 16:43.38 | mallum_ | paul: what happened to telco > |
| 16:43.44 | paul | mallum_: i quit. |
| 16:43.50 | mallum_ | paul: :/ |
| 16:44.39 | paul | mallum_: long story.. but i had to leave there for the good of sanity. |
| 16:44.46 | paul | (my sanity) |
| 16:45.29 | paul | mallum_: ah, looks nice btw. |
| 16:45.43 | paul | mallum_: panel apps now have a specified position? |
| 16:45.49 | paul | (you've wanted that for a while) |
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| 16:49.31 | paul | mallum_: hmm.. whats happened to the little keyboard app? |
| 16:52.07 | mallum_ | paul: ipkg install mbinputmgr |
| 16:52.20 | mallum_ | paul: cron is being dumb to me |
| 16:53.17 | paul | mallum_: ah, already have it - but it only shows xstroke. |
| 16:53.37 | paul | mallum_: looks it designed to bring up a pop-up with input choices. but only choice is xstroke. |
| 16:53.44 | paul | mallum_: cron? |
| 16:54.09 | mallum_ | paul: you have xkbd installed ? |
| 16:54.28 | paul | yep |
| 16:54.34 | mallum_ | paul: if I msg you my crontab, van you see if theres anything wrong with it |
| 16:54.37 | paul | mallum_: its in the menu. |
| 16:54.40 | paul | mallum_: sure |
| 16:54.45 | mallum_ | paul: try logging in and out and see if it appears |
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| 16:55.12 | paul | hm... no login/logout buttons in menu. |
| 16:55.24 | mallum_ | paul: just do a killall matchbox |
| 16:55.47 | mallum_ | paul: the buttons should hopefully reappear soon ( gpe-login now has to supply them ) |
| 16:56.12 | mallum_ | paul: they were dumbly hardcoded |
| 16:56.35 | paul | aha. |
| 16:56.53 | paul | no, no xkbd in the mbinputmgr app. |
| 16:56.57 | mallum_ | SHELL=/bin/sh |
| 16:56.57 | mallum_ | PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin |
| 16:56.57 | mallum_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:56.57 | mallum_ | 0 * * * * /home/mallum/bin/gentvhml.pl /var/www/www.sidske.com/tv/tv.xml > |
| 16:57.04 | mallum_ | arg |
| 16:57.28 | mallum_ | paul: can you check you have a /usr/share/applications/xkbd.desktop |
| 16:57.43 | paul | ah, no i dont. |
| 16:57.57 | mallum_ | paul: maybe reinstall / upgrade xkbd |
| 16:58.29 | mallum_ | paul: apart from the missing file after the '>' do you see anything wrong with that crontab ? |
| 16:58.31 | paul | yeah. |
| 16:58.49 | paul | ermm.. not really. |
| 16:59.09 | paul | mallum_: try 00 though. |
| 16:59.17 | paul | which cron is it? |
| 17:00.36 | mallum_ | debian cron |
| 17:00.41 | mallum_ | from woody |
| 17:01.00 | mallum_ | it never runs :/ |
| 17:01.29 | paul | mallum: err.. where's the username? :) |
| 17:01.44 | mallum_ | where should it be ? |
| 17:01.45 | paul | 0 * * * * user /home/mallum/bin/gentvhml.pl /var/www/www.sidske.com/tv/tv.xml |
| 17:01.46 | paul | :) |
| 17:01.58 | paul | 6th word |
| 17:01.59 | mallum_ | user as in 'mallum' |
| 17:02.02 | paul | yes |
| 17:02.10 | mallum_ | hehe |
| 17:02.15 | paul | :) |
| 17:02.19 | mallum_ | Im stupid |
| 17:02.23 | mallum_ | thank you sir |
| 17:02.24 | paul | aha.. i still had xkbd-nonxft installed. |
| 17:02.25 | paul | bingo. |
| 17:02.55 | mallum_ | aha, another package that need to be nuked |
| 17:02.56 | paul | mallum_: code to display background must be slightly broken wrt scaling. |
| 17:03.18 | paul | mallum_: try rotating screen. background is lined and B/W. |
| 17:03.31 | mallum_ | paul: odd, is it a jpeg ? |
| 17:04.02 | paul | its the light brown background with the lower-case g-in-circle gpe logo. |
| 17:04.05 | paul | let me check. |
| 17:04.20 | paul | mallum_: png |
| 17:04.22 | mallum_ | hmm, I think thats a png |
| 17:04.27 | paul | gpe-default-bg.png |
| 17:04.39 | mallum_ | okey I'll take a look at that |
| 17:04.59 | mallum_ | does it happen to you with all images ? |
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| 17:05.13 | paul | good questiobn. |
| 17:06.26 | paul | mallum_: no |
| 17:07.22 | mallum_ | paul: wierd. did you try other png's ? |
| 17:07.46 | paul | mallum_: at least bt-logo.png (the bluetooth panel app logo) scaled correctly. |
| 17:07.52 | paul | mallum_: yes :) |
| 17:07.55 | paul | just one though. |
| 17:08.17 | mallum_ | paul: okey I'll add it to the todo |
| 17:09.59 | paul | mallum_: turning xstroke on and off is quite fiddly though. |
| 17:10.38 | paul | mallum_: and the icon doesnt change to indicate whether its on/off |
| 17:11.12 | paul | (the older xstroke panel app, icon would highlight (on) and have a faded version for off. |
| 17:11.14 | paul | ) |
| 17:12.21 | mallum_ | paul: yeah, xstroke needs some feedback to show it active what mode its in |
| 17:12.45 | mallum_ | paul: I think pb_ was looking at it, or I was sposed to dunno |
| 17:15.12 | LinuxWorld2003_S | Question: Does anyone know why the GPE WLAN configuration tool sometimes returns "Scanner: Syntax error"? |
| 17:16.11 | nilsf | LinuxWorld2003_S: I guess because the scanner engine reports something the frontend does not understand... |
| 17:17.16 | LinuxWorld2003_S | Any ideas? There's a gentleman here who's running a recent Familiar and has been having this problem. He's got a standard wireless card, but there are no open networks around here, so he's been accepting the defaults. But the default values return this error message. |
| 17:18.33 | nilsf | LinuxWorld2003_S: Um... sorry. The GPE WLAN guy, Florian, is currently on his way home. Either forward this problem to him by email ( florian.boor@kernelconcepts.de ) or wait untiul he reappears on IRC. |
| 17:18.52 | nilsf | LinuxWorld2003_S: Are you some kind of a helpdesk at LinuxWorldExpo? |
| 17:28.51 | LinuxWorld2003_S | were a demo station at Lworld, but we sometimes get to be a helpdesk as well :) |
| 17:41.33 | jblack | WhoO! I wedged my ipaq. That a new record? |
| 17:49.41 | *** join/#gpe ade|home (~adrian@modem-3292.jaguar.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 17:49.45 | paul | right... all i need know is to find pb and annoy him into helping me with bluetooth :) |
| 17:52.08 | jblack | bluetooth: I thought that was doomed because of 802.11 |
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| 18:32.32 | nilsf | paul: What's your problem with bt ? |
| 18:32.56 | nilsf | jblack: Bluetooth is another technology and aimed at another target scenario. |
| 18:33.03 | paul | gpe-bluetooth gives "hciattach died unexpectedly" when i try to switch radio on. |
| 18:33.25 | nilsf | paul: Oh, I see :) Which version of Familiar? |
| 18:33.37 | paul | nilsf: also, the current init script appears to need bash and /etc/init.d/functions |
| 18:33.47 | *** join/#gpe reenoo (~r@p50867F6B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:33.55 | reenoo | hi |
| 18:33.58 | nilsf | paul: Argh! Which version!? This sounds like old crap! |
| 18:34.05 | paul | nilsf: err.. unstable? |
| 18:34.05 | nilsf | Hi reenoo... |
| 18:34.12 | paul | (but maybe ipkg didnt upgrade stuff?) |
| 18:34.14 | nilsf | paul: Not really!? |
| 18:34.28 | nilsf | The familiar 0.7 stuff worked. |
| 18:34.28 | paul | nilsf: yes, but ipkg is awfully bad at upgrading things. |
| 18:34.30 | reenoo | hey nilsf |
| 18:34.33 | paul | yes, it did. |
| 18:35.05 | nilsf | paul: Please check the versions. It might be that some crap sneaked into new packages... |
| 18:35.10 | paul | doing that now |
| 18:35.46 | nilsf | paul: Problem is that some of the BT stuff is built from the bluez sources which sometimes tend to have some non-Familiar friendly defaults, like bash. |
| 18:35.57 | paul | yes... i'm noticing :) |
| 18:36.18 | paul | nilsf: bought myself a bluetooth phone today :) |
| 18:36.45 | paul | nilsf: btw, if you receive an sms with a +353 number, that will be me. i have a new number. |
| 18:36.46 | nilsf | I don't know who maintains the bluez packages currently but sometimes those things then make it into packages by accident... |
| 18:36.59 | nilsf | paul: Ah, perfect, thanks! |
| 18:39.43 | paul | arg... why does irda not work with 6310? |
| 18:44.11 | paul | nilsf: hciattach... what should the arguments be? |
| 18:47.06 | nilsf | paul: Um... I think "hciattach /dev/ttySB0 bcsp 230400" not necessarily in that order... |
| 18:51.50 | paul | nah.. no luck. |
| 18:51.59 | paul | those bluez utils confuse the life out of me. |
| 18:53.41 | nilsf | What did happen? |
| 18:57.47 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@p5092948E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:57.48 | florian | re |
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| 19:12.48 | florian | hi pb_ |
| 19:13.26 | pb_ | hi florian |
| 19:13.37 | florian | nilsf: Is gcc / gtk at our CATS up to date? |
| 19:16.53 | nilsf | florian: Hmm... more or less. I think at least GTK should be GTK2 dot something. GCC.. dunno. |
| 19:20.47 | florian | nilsf: i'm still searching for the problem with gpsdrive - i wan't to get rid of it! |
| 19:21.27 | florian | gcc is 2.95.4... i think this should work. |
| 19:23.16 | nilsf | florian: For what? |
| 19:25.19 | florian | nilsf: compiling gpsdrive... |
| 19:32.11 | nilsf | florian: Ah :) |
| 19:36.50 | florian | nilsf: It's completely finished - except this stupid bug! |
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| 20:12.09 | florian | ok, noone will prevent me installing a new gcc on out cats :-) |
| 20:12.18 | pb_ | heh |
| 20:12.26 | *** join/#gpe gorvah (~chblomqv@ua211d47.elisa.omakaista.fi) |
| 20:12.35 | pb_ | gcc 3.3 is current in unstable at the moment, so that seems like a good choice. |
| 20:14.33 | florian | pb_: ok, great - i just installes this :-) |
| 20:14.39 | pb_ | cool |
| 20:14.46 | florian | s/installes/installed |
| 20:15.09 | florian | Doesn't update-alternatives know anything about gcc? |
| 20:15.21 | pb_ | nope |
| 20:15.48 | pb_ | gcc is purposefully not an alternative. |
| 20:16.24 | pb_ | see http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=148015 (and many duplicates) :-) |
| 20:18.26 | florian | ah, ok... |
| 20:22.46 | florian | well... there are two possebilities: a) it's too hot here |
| 20:22.52 | florian | b) it works |
| 20:23.00 | pb_ | heh |
| 20:23.58 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.7022.png |
| 20:24.07 | florian | scap rules! |
| 20:24.14 | pb_ | cool! |
| 20:24.28 | pb_ | did you change anything other than gcc? |
| 20:24.33 | florian | ok - two statements: |
| 20:24.53 | florian | gtk2? has a problem with gcc 2.95.4 |
| 20:25.06 | florian | i'm not in hamburg! |
| 20:25.21 | pb_ | ah, heh, this is true. |
| 20:25.28 | pb_ | seems your GPS unit must be malfunctioning. |
| 20:26.19 | florian | pb_: no - i think it's a problem with the serial connection - i left my gps receiver in the car ;-) |
| 20:26.52 | pb_ | florian: aha :-) |
| 20:26.59 | *** part/#gpe gorvah (~chblomqv@ua211d47.elisa.omakaista.fi) |
| 20:27.43 | pb_ | btw, where do you get the map data from? Russ was complaining that it was difficult to find the appropriate files for Europe. |
| 20:29.10 | florian | pb_: yes, at least in germany this is really horrible... at least on official ways. |
| 20:30.22 | florian | This is only a bitmap, no vector map - from a map service, i think in the us. gpsdrive grabs these from mapblast or expedia servers... |
| 20:30.30 | pb_ | ah right, I see |
| 20:33.16 | florian | The license from these servers say that it's not allowed to use the maps for navigation purposes - so (nearly) every file in gpsdrive contains a disclaimer that it should never be used for navigation purposes. |
| 20:33.34 | pb_ | ha! |
| 20:34.07 | florian | yeah, austrian humor ;-) |
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| 20:52.33 | tigert | does familiar have drivers for GPS stuff? |
| 20:52.46 | tigert | I have no idea what it involves if you want to setup a PCMCIA gps |
| 20:53.32 | *** join/#gpe jblack (~jblack@mercury.merconline.com) |
| 20:55.43 | florian | tigert: usually gps receivers are really simple serial devices. |
| 20:55.49 | tigert | ok |
| 20:55.55 | tigert | so they show us as a serial port? |
| 20:56.16 | tigert | so does the kernel think they are just a PCMCIA serial card? |
| 20:56.23 | *** join/#gpe jblack (~jblack@mercury.merconline.com) |
| 20:56.27 | tigert | I know they just output NMEA |
| 20:56.28 | *** part/#gpe jblack (~jblack@mercury.merconline.com) |
| 20:56.32 | florian | tigert: i only have a real serial gps, but afaik it's the same with pcmcia/cf/bluetooth gps |
| 20:57.18 | florian | tigert: i think so - it may be eunough to tell the pcmcia system to use the serial_cs driver for that device. |
| 20:57.46 | tigert | right |
| 20:57.50 | tigert | those are not THAT expensive |
| 20:57.55 | florian | tigert: nelson should know exactly... |
| 20:57.59 | tigert | but then I'd need a program to show a moving map |
| 20:58.09 | tigert | preferably a scanned bitmap map |
| 20:58.15 | tigert | I guess I could bug sxpert |
| 20:58.19 | tigert | he has one he is hacking on |
| 20:58.22 | florian | tigert: give me half an hour... |
| 20:58.37 | tigert | florian: I'd need the device first :)) |
| 20:58.44 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.7022.png |
| 20:58.46 | tigert | but it would be fun while driving or flying |
| 20:59.22 | florian | Gpsdrive is an ugly piece of code - but it does exactly this. |
| 20:59.32 | tigert | but those look like vectors? |
| 20:59.35 | nelson | tigert: all you need is gpsd |
| 20:59.56 | nelson | tigert: pygps does what you want. |
| 21:00.09 | florian | nope, this is only a bitmap |
| 21:00.09 | nelson | tigert: the only requirement is that your scanned bitmap have a world file. |
| 21:00.34 | tigert | which means a file to map the coords? |
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| 21:01.40 | nelson | tigert: yup. one file for the image, and another file listing the scale, northing, easting and UTM zone. |
| 21:01.46 | tigert | right |
| 21:01.50 | nelson | tigert: the size of the image obviously sets the scope of the map. |
| 21:01.52 | tigert | looks like those are not THAT impossible to do by hand |
| 21:01.57 | tigert | yeah |
| 21:02.17 | nelson | tigert: as long as you have a UTM projection, no, it's not that hard. |
| 21:02.22 | nelson | tigert: you're .de, right? |
| 21:02.27 | tigert | no |
| 21:02.28 | tigert | .fi |
| 21:02.59 | nelson | oh, right. Does gov.fi provide digital maps? |
| 21:03.57 | tigert | no idea |
| 21:04.00 | tigert | but I can scan my own |
| 21:04.04 | nelson | I use terraserver-usa.com to create maps. Actually, I use the acme.com/mapper front-end. |
| 21:04.10 | tigert | these are lambert conformal conical projection |
| 21:04.38 | tigert | but I need my own since those contain the airspace stuff |
| 21:04.43 | nelson | tigert: hrm. Those probably make more sense for a country as far north as .fi than UTM. |
| 21:04.50 | nelson | UTM gets pretty ugly near the poles. |
| 21:05.00 | tigert | so they could theoretically be useful in the air, although taking an ipaq to the plane is pretty silly since the screen is pretty small |
| 21:05.37 | nelson | tigert: pygps is pure python, and gpsd is portable. Runs on your Unix laptop as well. |
| 21:05.38 | tigert | the idea of the projection is that the shortest distance between two places is a straigth line on the map |
| 21:05.43 | tigert | nelson: :) |
| 21:05.52 | tigert | but taking a laptop to the plane is even sillier |
| 21:06.00 | tigert | but it would be fun in the car anyway |
| 21:06.06 | tigert | and might be interesting anyway |
| 21:06.18 | tigert | but a real Garmin 540 would beat those hands down |
| 21:06.28 | tigert | but they are like $13000 |
| 21:06.31 | tigert | so.. eh |
| 21:06.38 | nelson | tigert: Hrm. Is there a mapping between the lat/lon that you get from gpsd, and x,y locations on the map? |
| 21:06.53 | tigert | nelson: I havent really looked in that stuff |
| 21:07.06 | tigert | nelson: I was considering a gps now that I have the ipaq |
| 21:07.10 | tigert | sorta pondering the idea |
| 21:07.24 | florian | There is a module for gpsdrive for some plane-services too... |
| 21:07.54 | nelson | tigert: ahhhhh. Well, if you can find the algorithm to transform lat/lon into x,y locations on a lambert conformal conical projection, I can add it to pygps. |
| 21:10.01 | tigert | nelson: hum |
| 21:10.03 | tigert | http://mapping.usgs.gov/ftp/software/current_software/gctpc2/lamccinv.c |
| 21:10.06 | tigert | I wonder what this is? |
| 21:10.09 | tigert | first hit on google |
| 21:10.28 | tigert | looks a bit different though |
| 21:10.48 | tigert | no wait |
| 21:10.49 | tigert | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:11.18 | tigert | hm |
| 21:12.11 | tigert | but first I need to get the gps anyway |
| 21:12.52 | nelson | http://mapping.usgs.gov/ftp/software/current_software/gctpc2/lamccfor.c |
| 21:13.00 | nelson | Hehe. And the map, too. |
| 21:14.07 | tigert | the maps I already have on paper |
| 21:15.47 | nelson | tigert: I mean that you have to have to scan and normalize the map. |
| 21:16.23 | tigert | yea |
| 21:16.39 | nelson | I'd look to see if somebody's already done that. |
| 21:16.43 | tigert | I think mapquest has some maps from finland anyway |
| 21:16.47 | tigert | yea |
| 21:16.58 | tigert | will look into it closer if I get the device |
| 21:17.01 | tigert | thanks |
| 21:23.10 | nelson | Okay. nelson@handhelds.org if you have any questions, or just go to http://pygps.org/ |
| 21:28.53 | tigert | yea, I bookmarked that |
| 21:47.07 | grib | heh, whenever I see 'pygps' my brain pronounces it "pig piss" |
| 21:50.25 | florian | i think we had this py* discussipn some hours before... |
| 22:30.26 | florian | uploading packages... |
| 22:32.22 | florian | night all |
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| 22:39.45 | Speuler | g'day |
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