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| 00:13.23 | dc__ | damn. |
| 00:13.35 | dc__ | left the door open, and now I have a very chilly room :-\ |
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| 01:12.52 | pigeon | dc_: ! |
| 01:13.06 | dc_ | pigeon: ! |
| 01:13.11 | dc_ | Gobo! |
| 01:13.28 | pigeon | sugoi! |
| 01:13.46 | dc_ | hato! |
| 01:14.12 | pigeon | di-shi! |
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| 05:51.18 | pigeon | :D |
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| 09:39.36 | florian_ | morning... |
| 09:39.47 | pb_ | hi florian_ |
| 10:17.00 | PaxAnima | morning |
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| 11:33.00 | *** join/#gpe paul (~paulj@itg-gw.cr008.cwt.esat.net) |
| 11:40.20 | pb_ | hi paul |
| 11:40.30 | paul | heya pb |
| 11:40.39 | paul | how's cambridge? |
| 11:40.52 | pb_ | warm and sunny, unusually. |
| 11:41.09 | pb_ | how's life in the emerald isle? |
| 11:45.59 | paul | warm but wet, so its humid over here. |
| 11:46.12 | paul | which isnt unusual.. |
| 11:46.27 | paul | humidity that is... |
| 11:46.42 | paul | but in combination with 'warm' is is :) |
| 11:46.46 | pb_ | heh, right. |
| 11:47.45 | pb_ | btw, I booked my travel to Dublin for GUADEC. arriving Monday 0800, departing Wednesday 2130. |
| 11:48.14 | paul | ah excellent. |
| 11:48.30 | paul | monday's a bank holiday over here btw. |
| 11:48.56 | pb_ | ah right. |
| 11:49.15 | paul | so make sure you have your euros already :) |
| 11:49.28 | paul | whats the agenda for next week? |
| 11:49.29 | pb_ | well, you have ATMs, right? |
| 11:49.48 | paul | pb_: yes, but over here they take bank holidays too. |
| 11:49.51 | paul | (kidding) |
| 11:49.52 | paul | :) |
| 11:49.55 | pb_ | heh |
| 11:50.32 | pb_ | in Japan, that's actually the case: most ATMs only operate during office hours. |
| 11:50.40 | paul | really? |
| 11:50.45 | paul | very strange :) |
| 11:51.09 | pb_ | yeah, indeed. |
| 11:51.14 | pb_ | lunch, brb |
| 12:05.12 | florian__ | bbl |
| 12:27.04 | nelson | Why does GUADEC sound like a Digital Equipment Corporation user's group? |
| 12:28.00 | pb_ | Ha, I guess it does rather. Ironic that Sun are sponsoring it, I suppose. |
| 12:47.15 | nelson | hrm. The screen locker and the power button interact badly in -rc2. |
| 12:47.36 | pb_ | Oh, what happens? |
| 12:47.38 | nelson | If you hold it down to turn the backlight on and off, it also turns the machine off but *doesn't* change the state of the backlight. |
| 12:48.04 | nelson | whatever state it was in before, it remains in when you turn it back on again. |
| 12:48.04 | pb_ | Ah. That sounds like it would be a keylaunch bug. |
| 12:48.35 | nelson | Sounds like. |
| 12:48.44 | nelson | Sub-optimal if you're trying to unlock it in the dark. |
| 12:49.29 | pb_ | Yeah. |
| 12:49.44 | pb_ | moray, any thoughts on that? |
| 12:54.39 | moray | hm, not sure - it appears to work for me (as they say) |
| 12:55.18 | moray | nelson: is this with the ipaq at the login screen / at the locked screen / logged in with a normal application showing? |
| 12:56.49 | moray | ah, at the 'locked' screen something odd does seem to happen |
| 13:04.04 | pb_ | oh, right, so it might be a gpe-login bug. |
| 13:05.07 | ade|desk | does gpe-login show the owner details on locked screen ? |
| 13:05.10 | *** join/#gpe twiglet (~hmw26@potato.newn.cam.ac.uk) |
| 13:06.01 | pb_ | don't think so. |
| 13:07.09 | ade|desk | would be handy as if someone loses their ipaq, the locked device might be returned to the owner if the owner is known |
| 13:07.57 | ade|desk | else the guy has to reboot the device to see the owner info |
| 13:08.20 | ade|desk | how many non ipaq/gpe users know how to reboot ? |
| 13:08.58 | ade|desk | bugzilla a request ? |
| 13:09.13 | pb_ | yep. |
| 13:09.20 | ade|desk | under gpe-login2? |
| 13:09.24 | pb_ | yeah |
| 13:09.27 | ade|desk | k |
| 13:09.42 | pb_ | probably need some help from Colin to make gpe-ownerinfo2 do the right thing. |
| 13:13.43 | moray | pb_: back, having realised while away what's (almost certainly) going on |
| 13:14.11 | pb_ | aha. |
| 13:14.27 | moray | pb_: at that point there are two keylaunches running, right? so, when the foreground keylaunch propagates the 'release' event from the long hold so that apps can react to it, guess what sees it? ;) |
| 13:14.55 | pb_ | oh, er. I don't think there ought to be two keylaunches running. |
| 13:15.02 | moray | pb_: I guess we need some sort of '--no-propagate' (global or per key?), or to move to using D-BUS or something for propagating the release events to things that really want them? |
| 13:15.19 | moray | pb_: I thought that was what was done to stop random key definitions being activated? |
| 13:15.58 | moray | pb_: if not, what's the current gpe-login locking mechanism for stopping that? (since it does seem to be a locking problem) |
| 13:16.24 | pb_ | moray: from what I remember, gpe-login filters the events itself, and only passes on ones that it thinks are harmless. |
| 13:16.32 | pb_ | could be wrong about that though. |
| 13:16.52 | moray | oh, whoops yes, however that could have the same effect? |
| 13:17.04 | pb_ | yeah, could be. |
| 13:17.20 | moray | if the fake release event gets to gpe-login and thus back to keylaunch |
| 13:18.34 | ade|desk | pb_: hmm bugzilla has gpe-login2 at version 0.44 not 0.5 on my ipaq where are the other versions ? |
| 13:18.52 | pb_ | ade|desk: just file against the latest version. |
| 13:19.01 | pb_ | latest in bugzilla, that is. |
| 13:19.08 | ade|desk | ok] |
| 13:19.17 | pb_ | need to ask Jamey to rerun the script to update the database. |
| 13:20.17 | moray | pb_: although, that makes it more difficult to fix if that's what's going on; I suppose gpe-login needs to filter out the fake event |
| 13:36.12 | nelson | moray: this is at the locked screen after you power-up your machine. |
| 13:37.32 | nelson | two keylaunches? I only see one running. |
| 13:41.21 | moray | nelson: yes, pb_ reminded me of the actual situation somewhere up there ^ |
| 13:41.56 | moray | nelson: gpe-login filters the events, but is presumably picking up the fake key release that keylaunch generates at the end of a hold and passing it back to keylaunch |
| 13:46.53 | nelson | moray: ahhhh, I see. Well, because GPE 1.0 is so close to being released, we're holding off 0.7 until it's out. So if you want to fix this problem between now and Sunday (or so Nils promises), it'll go into 0.7. |
| 13:48.16 | moray | nelson: ok |
| 14:25.54 | *** join/#gpe nils__ (~nils@kc.celox-online.de) |
| 14:27.14 | nils__ | Hey ho, goodday alltogether! Alread read the mailinglist? |
| 14:29.32 | pb_ | hi nils__! |
| 14:29.59 | nils__ | pb_: He! I already thought I'd be alone :) Have some time today? |
| 14:35.26 | pb_ | nils__: Aha, yeah, things are fairly quiet for me at the moment. |
| 14:38.23 | nils__ | pb_: Oh fine :) I think we could need a hand, to say the least. |
| 14:38.53 | nils__ | pb_: I managed to convince Russell and Jim to wait for the Familiar 0.7 release for our V1.0 GPE release until sunday. |
| 14:39.31 | pb_ | nils__: Right, okay. Do we have a list of critical bugs? |
| 14:39.40 | nils__ | pb_: Florian will join us shortly and we intended to have a hacking session tonight in order to get the remaining bug squished and make up 1.0. |
| 14:40.17 | nils__ | pb_: Not yet really. Maybe we should simply start by very closely investigate the current rc2 image and make this "round". |
| 14:42.21 | nils__ | pb_: One request that Jim and Rus made was that we should test our new packages intensively with new images. Do you know how to create new test images "quickly"? |
| 14:54.27 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@kc.celox-online.de) |
| 14:55.15 | florian | re |
| 14:55.25 | pb_ | florian: re |
| 14:55.37 | pb_ | nils__: Yep, I can easily make new images. |
| 14:56.28 | pb_ | Okay, I'll certainly be around this evening to help with whatever I can. I have to go into a meeting at 4:30 for about an hour, but I will be at liberty to work on GPE after that. |
| 14:56.29 | nils__ | pb_: Hey, great! So now that Florian has joined... what about making up a tempary WiKi page to collect our bugs/todo's? |
| 14:57.06 | pb_ | Yep, good thinking. We already have the ImminentZeroPointSevenRelease page, so that might be a good place to put this stuff. |
| 14:58.05 | pb_ | One obvious first point to check is that all the rc1 errata listed there have actually been corrected in rc2. |
| 15:01.13 | nils__ | pb_: Finally just found that page :) |
| 15:01.29 | pb_ | Ah, and we should find a volunteer to fill in http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/GPEBluetoothConfig, which is linked from the GPENewbie page. |
| 15:01.37 | nils__ | Yep, I would propose simply to draw a line on the buttom and start a new section today. |
| 15:01.46 | pb_ | Okay, sounds good. |
| 15:04.21 | florian | we should check current packages against cvs... at least gpe-contacts is not up to date. |
| 15:06.53 | pb_ | Yeah. I think in the gpe-contacts case that was kind of deliberate, because CVS had those SQL changes that I didn't understand, and I was a bit nervous about putting them into 0.7. But if you think they're safe, we can certainly make a new package. |
| 15:08.06 | jg | morning nils, pb_... |
| 15:08.34 | pb_ | hi jg |
| 15:09.43 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-55-60-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 15:09.50 | pb_ | dc_: yo! |
| 15:09.58 | florian | dc_: hi |
| 15:10.02 | dc_ | hey. |
| 15:10.10 | nils__ | jg: Hi Jim! |
| 15:10.19 | dc_ | heh, more blues with the satellite today. |
| 15:10.27 | dc_ | the speed is really sucking. |
| 15:10.30 | dc_ | at like 23kb/s |
| 15:10.32 | pb_ | oh dear. |
| 15:10.42 | dc_ | indeed. |
| 15:10.45 | pb_ | well, heh, 23kb/s is still better than modem speed. |
| 15:10.53 | jg | nils__: I'll try to get the revised X package today... Are you going to make the mbdesktop startup change, or should I? |
| 15:10.54 | dc_ | true |
| 15:11.02 | dc_ | but not when you're trying to download an iso, heh. |
| 15:11.38 | pb_ | aha, yeah. |
| 15:11.52 | nils__ | jg: We'll see if we can get Matthew to change it himself, else we'll do, so you don't have to bother with it; thanks! |
| 15:12.09 | jg | nils__: OK, that ball is in your court. |
| 15:12.45 | nils__ | jg: Yep :) |
| 15:13.29 | florian | pb_: but without a package we'll never find out if it really works... |
| 15:17.41 | pb_ | florian: Yes, true enough. I was planning to put it into unstable after 0.7 was out. But, if you've been using the code and it's been working for you, I guess that's enough testing. |
| 15:19.49 | florian | pb_: i didn't use it very much, but i would do some additional tests - if we run into trouble with that we use the older package... |
| 15:30.23 | nils__ | dc_: Hi! Umm... don't want to poke around in open wounds but ... the filemanager still lacks scrollbars in current Fam0.7-rc2... and idea about it? |
| 15:34.47 | pb_ | florian: Okay, sounds cool. |
| 15:34.49 | dc_ | nils__: hehe. nah, um, I think it's missing an expose call. |
| 15:35.08 | dc_ | nils__: it could well be a mibus widget error though. |
| 15:35.15 | dc_ | pb_: any ideas off the top of your head? |
| 15:35.34 | pb_ | dc_: yeah, I think the mibuswidget is to blame. I haven't looked at that code in a while though. |
| 15:36.28 | nils__ | dc_: OK, could you please see if you can fix this? As you might have read we are very close to Fam0.7 and have time until, say, friday to fix things and until sunday to have a rock solid version. |
| 15:38.59 | pb_ | Okay, I'll now be known as pb_[meeting] for a while. |
| 15:40.29 | dc_ | nils__: okay...well a friend is just about to arrive, so it'll have to wait untill this evening. |
| 15:40.43 | dc_ | nils__: but I'll make it my mission before sunday to fix it. |
| 15:42.54 | nils__ | dc_: Great! And if at all possible, maybe a little sooner? You know, sunday is deadline for the ready-made install image. |
| 15:43.16 | dc_ | ah okay |
| 15:43.25 | dc_ | lets make it tomorrow night the latest thn |
| 15:43.26 | dc_ | ten |
| 15:43.27 | dc_ | then |
| 15:47.12 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-148-50-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 15:50.19 | nils__ | dc*: That what would grool, err, creat, err :) |
| 16:01.14 | dc__ | right |
| 16:02.53 | dc__ | weeeee |
| 16:03.01 | dc__ | I have my tickets to japan now :) |
| 16:04.04 | nils__ | dc__: Japan? Going for vacation or longer? |
| 16:04.46 | dc__ | summer holidays for a month :D |
| 16:10.06 | nils__ | dc__: Cool, congratulations! Must be very interesting. Do you go to a bigger city or overland too? |
| 16:21.22 | *** join/#gpe mccarthy (~mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 16:21.31 | mccarthy | gpe 1.0, huh? |
| 16:22.38 | florian | yeah :-) |
| 16:22.39 | mccarthy | I'm sure there has been discussion regarding the gpe1 version 1.0 issue? |
| 16:29.09 | nils__ | mccarthy: We are at it :) This came quite unexpectedly but the familiar people decided that 0.7 will be out VERY soon and we thougth that GPE 1.0 would be a cool feature for it. |
| 16:29.36 | nils__ | We are now working on making it smooth, have a look at the bottom of http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/ImminentZeroPointSevenRelease |
| 16:30.08 | mccarthy | thats cool. i guess i should check if there are any more bugs with my name on them :) |
| 16:30.46 | ade|desk | version 1.0 does seem a little strange naming at this point seeing as most packages are *-2 named |
| 16:32.26 | nils__ | ade|desk: Yes :) True, but this is caused by the GTK1 -> GTK2 switch. The GPE 1.0 Release is more a global than a per package version. |
| 16:32.52 | ade|desk | why not skip the 1.0 release? |
| 16:33.02 | ade|desk | why must we start at 1.0? |
| 16:35.27 | florian | I think we don't need to - but it sounds better i think. Not every project using GTK2 needs to start with a 2.0 release ;-) |
| 16:35.31 | florian | http://www.handhelds.org/~florian/penguin-reader.png |
| 16:35.55 | florian | Here is the fixed version of the greader icon :-) |
| 16:35.55 | ade|desk | why not tag the gtk1 cvs as version 1.0 and then tag current 0.7rc-x as the 2.0.1 release and then 2.1.0 as the 0.7 familiar |
| 16:36.20 | ade|desk | how cute |
| 16:36.42 | mccarthy | florian: yes, but there is definitely some confusing going to arise fromt he fact that we changed many (most?) of the NAMES of the packages to be *2 when we moved to GTK2, so the version 1.x is strange |
| 16:37.05 | florian | well... i don't think we have a gtk1 version... |
| 16:37.35 | mccarthy | I would suggeest we either skip directly to 2.0 (less desirable) or drop all the 2's from the package names (and subsequently drop all GTK1 support) |
| 16:37.55 | ade|desk | second idea gets my vote |
| 16:38.11 | moray | it is plausible that calling it '2' would be less confusing; even if a version 1.0 was never released it was perhaps in there somewhere along the way |
| 16:38.20 | mccarthy | pb_ or nils have a comment? |
| 16:38.29 | mccarthy | cmarqu: ? |
| 16:38.47 | moray | ade|desk: well, it would be a fair amount of effort to remove all the 2s etc.; it's probably sensible in the long run but not doable today/tomorrow |
| 16:39.18 | ade|desk | true, so then name this release at 2.x |
| 16:39.34 | mccarthy | moray: why would it be so hard? we need simply to change the Makefiles and the control files....some clever script kiddie should be able to do the whole tree in a jiff :) |
| 16:39.45 | moray | mccarthy: if you're volunteering, ...? |
| 16:39.52 | jg | all: try not to fix what isn't busted.... Making changes that don't have to be made |
| 16:39.59 | jg | right now is asking for trouble.... |
| 16:40.04 | moray | yes |
| 16:40.10 | mccarthy | moray: I said three things that have almost nothing to do with me "clever" "young" and "script" :) |
| 16:40.14 | moray | ha |
| 16:40.48 | ade|desk | where is an opie kid when you need one :) |
| 16:40.56 | mccarthy | jg: I tend to agree, but I think newbies will be hopelessly confused by the weird 2/1 conflict.... |
| 16:40.59 | moray | there is no good reason to rename/relabel everything just now; if people think that there's a 1 - 2 confusion, we should just name the whole thing 2 |
| 16:41.15 | mccarthy | ade|desk: /join #opie :) I would but they think Im a troll |
| 16:41.23 | moray | but equally, I wouldn't object to the whole thing being '1.0' regardless of internal versions/names |
| 16:41.34 | nils__ | jg: Difintely! Changes names is the best example for cosmetics and that's not what is needed right now. |
| 16:41.49 | jg | aggregate release numbers don't have to have anything to do with names of packages.... |
| 16:42.04 | mccarthy | nils__: but we could easily "fix" it by calling this release GPE2.0 with no hassles at all |
| 16:42.13 | ade|desk | agreed |
| 16:42.13 | moray | of course, the splash screen has said GPE 2 for a while... |
| 16:42.31 | jg | moray: good argument for calling the release 2, then... |
| 16:42.31 | nils__ | mccarthy: And what do yout tell people where Release 1.0 has gone? |
| 16:42.43 | ade|desk | why will they ask ? |
| 16:42.43 | jg | nils__: who cares? The newbies won't. |
| 16:42.50 | moray | nils__: it was never released, is all |
| 16:42.58 | mccarthy | I agree about the aggregate number and the *version* numbers not necessarily needing to have correspondence, but the package *names* incling 2s screws things up a bit IMHO |
| 16:43.11 | nils__ | The Release 1.0 of GPE is just a logical name, no name to call the thing or to advertise. It is our first complete full release, nothing more, nothing less. |
| 16:43.21 | jg | nils__: so call it 2. |
| 16:43.39 | jg | It is what Keithp did for fontconfig, for example.... |
| 16:43.40 | dc__ | I'd have to agree with the 2.0 release option. |
| 16:43.46 | mccarthy | nils__: its like the gnus not unix thing, it doesnt need to make sense :) |
| 16:44.09 | moray | nils__: as the splash screen suggests, people have been calling what we currently have 'GPE 2' for a while; you could have 'GPE 2 version 1.0', but I think that would definitely confuse people |
| 16:44.10 | jg | so long as numbers monotonically increase, every one will be pretty happy... |
| 16:44.15 | mccarthy | dc__: thanks for chiming in...I was wondering when one of you brits was gonna give input :) |
| 16:44.35 | mccarthy | anybody use IRDA netowrking? |
| 16:44.40 | nils__ | jg: Oh well, then be it, our _first_ release will be called 2.0 ;) Anyone objecting? |
| 16:44.41 | mccarthy | on their ipaq |
| 16:45.08 | dc__ | nope. |
| 16:45.11 | mccarthy | nils__: I think it is the only simple solution right now |
| 16:45.22 | dc__ | wait....hang on |
| 16:45.31 | dc__ | nils__: you're on irc.. |
| 16:45.35 | mccarthy | yeeess? |
| 16:45.35 | ade|desk | lol |
| 16:46.02 | mccarthy | dc__: GPE must be getting released soon :) |
| 16:46.11 | nils__ | dc__: Umm.. yes 8-} |
| 16:46.15 | dc__ | mccarthy: I guess that's the explination |
| 16:46.53 | nils__ | moray: Even better: "GPE 2 version 0.1 release 1.0" :)) |
| 16:47.10 | ade|desk | eh ? |
| 16:47.22 | dc__ | revision 1.0. |
| 16:47.34 | ade|desk | so that make the name GPE2 not GPE ? |
| 16:47.51 | moray | ade|desk: I think we're in fact agreed that would be confusing |
| 16:47.54 | dc__ | 2 sounds bigger and better. |
| 16:48.00 | nils__ | Wonder how long this can become :) |
| 16:48.01 | jg | and it is bigger and better... |
| 16:48.09 | nils__ | dc__: Starting marketing? |
| 16:48.09 | dc__ | hehe |
| 16:48.29 | dc__ | nils__: next stop is billboards. |
| 16:48.31 | nils__ | jg: At least three inches! Err... |
| 16:48.58 | dc__ | and GPE 2.0 goes well with GNOME 2.0 |
| 16:48.59 | ade|desk | cant we keep it simple, after all that is what the project is for, simple clean gtk2 inferface for handhelds |
| 16:49.01 | jg | nils__: better that that saying it is 3 furlongs better... |
| 16:49.03 | mccarthy | Overall, I think I actually *like* the 2.0 idea and here is why....with many projects the odd numbers are development versions and the even numbers are real ones....that fits here, but thats not my point....my point is *rather* than doing that, we can do as we have with the gtk1 to gtk2 switch and *rename* devel versions as gpe-package$NEXTGPEVERSION so as to allow old ones to be updated and radically new ones to not interfere |
| 16:49.04 | florian | hmm... My iPaq is larger than yours... ;-) |
| 16:49.16 | moray | ah yes, we need to make the name long and confusing, then have lots of people turn up and complain every time someone gets it wrong ;) |
| 16:49.40 | dc__ | florian: my c700 is bigger than your iPAQ. |
| 16:50.34 | dc__ | brb, lunch. |
| 16:50.51 | ade|desk | lunch ??? its 5:12 in the UK? |
| 16:50.57 | moray | (or perhaps we could have versions, say, 3, 1, 4, 15, 9, 2, 6, 5, 35, 8 etc...) |
| 16:51.16 | moray | ade|desk: indeed. I was also wondering about having lunch soon :) |
| 16:51.31 | moray | (depending what you call a breakfast had a lunchtime, really) |
| 16:51.53 | nils__ | For now we don't have much choice about package or application naming. As Jim already said, starting to rename everything now is really screaming for trouble. So those have to stay. Calling it GPE2 is OK for me too since it goes well with the GTK2 (and Gnome2) names. And calling the release 1.0 or 2.0, oh well, does not change much. |
| 16:52.40 | ade|desk | moray: std times 8 is breakfast 12-2 for 1 hour is lunch and dinner is when you get round to making it and there is naught on TV |
| 16:52.48 | nils__ | But we should properly tag the CVS release version (with _any_ tag but it should be consistant ... what about 42?) |
| 16:53.15 | moray | nils__: I think having the release and short name out of sync would cause problems in the future; with GPE2 / 2.0 we can just go back to e.g. GPE version 4.5 in the future |
| 16:53.52 | florian | dc__: ok, thats true... but at least my printer is bigger than yours ;-) |
| 16:54.01 | moray | ade|desk: same here, you seem to be forgetting that the kind of people who are on the GPE IRC channel don't necessarily eat at standard times ;) |
| 16:55.00 | ade|desk | moray: true they do seem to fit the computer-geek time shift stereotype |
| 16:55.01 | mccarthy | well. it looks like I have very little to do prior to this release then.... no more bugs for me.... |
| 16:55.19 | mccarthy | should I be uploading source packages or something? |
| 16:55.21 | ade|desk | so that is the name at right now ? |
| 16:55.27 | nils__ | OK, so what do we do now, decision please! a) GPE2 Release 1, b) GPE2 Release 2, c) GPE Release 2 ? |
| 16:55.35 | ade|desk | c |
| 16:56.17 | mccarthy | I think b and c are almost indistinguishable....GPE2 is kinda shorthand for GPE version 2.0 |
| 16:56.26 | ade|desk | the project is/was GPE |
| 16:56.44 | ade|desk | is gnome, gnome2 version 2? |
| 16:56.48 | mccarthy | like gnome2 is simply shorthand for gnome version 2.x |
| 16:56.51 | nils__ | OK, that makes 0:0:1, any more? |
| 16:56.52 | moray | nils__: well, it's GPE version 2.0, isn't it? |
| 16:57.07 | moray | nils__: 'release 2' is lying ;) |
| 16:57.23 | moray | (and 'version' is more standard, isn't it?) |
| 16:57.34 | nils__ | moray: But that's what this is all about. The _release_ number :) |
| 16:57.52 | moray | nils__: I'd say that the _release label_ was 2.0 |
| 16:58.19 | moray | nils__: it could equally be 'nilsrox' or whatever, but '2.0' seems fairly logical given the discussion above? |
| 16:58.58 | moray | (and, as jg pointed out, monotonically increasing numbers are useful for these things) |
| 16:59.02 | nils__ | OT: Friend of mine listening to our laughs right now commented: The stuff those guys are smoking there must be good! |
| 16:59.56 | nils__ | moray: So, that would make your vote for c too but calling it version rather than release? |
| 17:00.11 | moray | nils__: I'd say having the 'official' version as 2.0 also has the advantage of clarifying that this is the first release of this version |
| 17:00.29 | mccarthy | nils__: I think mine was a c vote, but with the observations that I might still call it GPE2 as a nickname :) |
| 17:00.50 | moray | indeed |
| 17:00.52 | ade|desk | seems perfectly normal to me |
| 17:01.04 | ade|desk | so thats 0:0:3 |
| 17:01.21 | moray | nils__: just 'version 2' without the '.0' might give people too high expectations ;) |
| 17:02.00 | mccarthy | how do I find out what packages wouldbe included in gpe version 2.0? would it be in the task package right now? (I think pb_ wants source uploads of all packages) |
| 17:02.05 | ade|desk | GPE version 2.0 ... votes ? |
| 17:02.12 | mccarthy | ade|desk: yes |
| 17:02.24 | moray | ade|desk: (sounds fine to me) |
| 17:02.35 | nils__ | Cool! Then be it. We call this our "first release" and name it "GPE 2" (GPE V2 or GPE R2 is at the reader's choice :) |
| 17:03.07 | mccarthy | yipee! :) I am glad I got everyone riled up by asking :) |
| 17:03.20 | ade|desk | nils__: 2 or 2.0 ? |
| 17:03.29 | florian | ROTFL |
| 17:03.31 | mccarthy | ade|desk: stop it now ! |
| 17:03.51 | *** join/#gpe nomis (simon@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) |
| 17:03.54 | nils__ | ade|desk: yuk ... let's add the .0 later, OK? |
| 17:03.59 | florian | hi nomis |
| 17:04.06 | mccarthy | nils__: like RedHat will ;) |
| 17:04.07 | nomis | florian! what a surprise. |
| 17:04.07 | ade|desk | nils__: ok |
| 17:04.41 | nils__ | This way it's more like the old "SysV R2" or something :) |
| 17:04.46 | florian | never trust a software version with a .0 at the end! ;-) |
| 17:04.56 | moray | florian: I think that's why I thought we ought to have one :p |
| 17:05.12 | nils__ | florian: Good point, so let's öeave this out... .0 might be bad marketing. |
| 17:05.28 | ade|desk | a rose by any other name ...etc |
| 17:05.34 | nils__ | öeave -> leave |
| 17:06.21 | florian | moray: we have still some hours to document the current bugs... |
| 17:06.25 | nils__ | So back on track... anyone else had a look at http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/ImminentZeroPointSevenRelease |
| 17:07.40 | ade|desk | nils__: do you want to change the name of the release on that page ? |
| 17:07.52 | nils__ | ade|desk: Just done it :) |
| 17:08.09 | ade|desk | so i see welldone |
| 17:08.12 | ade|desk | :) |
| 17:08.24 | mccarthy | nils__: I see nothing I can (need to) fix |
| 17:08.52 | nils__ | Anyone know where Matthew is? There is a change for the mbdesktop startup script to be done and I don't want to step on his toes. |
| 17:10.59 | mccarthy | WAIT I just realized we use GTK 2.2!!! :) |
| 17:11.07 | ade|desk | sssh |
| 17:11.08 | mccarthy | (here we go again :) |
| 17:12.14 | florian | mccarthy: what about a new gpe-beam package? ;-) |
| 17:12.32 | mccarthy | florian: I dont think I maintain gpe-beam do i?! |
| 17:12.58 | mccarthy | If you are asking me to build something *you* maintain, maybe I can do that... |
| 17:13.11 | florian | mccarthy: i don't think so - but it looks like you need some work ;-) |
| 17:13.24 | mccarthy | florian: :) |
| 17:13.40 | florian | who maintains gpe-beam?! me?! |
| 17:13.48 | florian | no! |
| 17:14.12 | nils__ | jg: I just tested the mbdesktop start-up changes you suggested but find the fontsize 8 a little too big. Would 7 also be OK with you? This still looks OK and does not cause titles to overlap. |
| 17:14.24 | jg | no, release notes recommend sans-7 |
| 17:15.08 | jg | oops, release notes are buggy. |
| 17:15.13 | nils__ | jg: Umm ... then someone's changing the pages I get here :) |
| 17:15.17 | nils__ | jg: Ah, OK :) |
| 17:15.17 | jg | nils__: I meant sans-7 |
| 17:15.22 | nils__ | jg: Fine! |
| 17:15.26 | mccarthy | whats greader? |
| 17:15.48 | jg | nils__: The Xserver file has been moved to the gpe-dm package. |
| 17:15.55 | florian | mccarthy: an reader application... |
| 17:15.57 | jg | So the subpixel bug is also yours to fix.... |
| 17:16.05 | mccarthy | florian: ;p |
| 17:16.56 | florian | mccarthy: just a second... |
| 17:17.04 | nils__ | jg: I think gpe-dm is maintained by Phil ... he'll be able to fix it quite quickly when he's back from his meeting. |
| 17:17.30 | mccarthy | florian: ok. just foudn the ipkg info (it was in unstable) |
| 17:17.40 | jg | nils__: thanks; but please make sure that pb actually gets it done (so put it on your list, please). |
| 17:17.41 | mccarthy | it is a text file reader (right now) |
| 17:18.04 | florian | mccarthy: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.4337.png |
| 17:18.06 | nils__ | jg: Good point! |
| 17:19.03 | florian | yep, but it is much better than gpe-text for reading... |
| 17:19.57 | mccarthy | florian: whats the little blue dockapp? |
| 17:20.04 | mccarthy | (next to xmonobut) |
| 17:20.53 | nils__ | Call me ignorant, but ... how are packages chosen for Familiar release? In other words, how do I make sure that a changed package will make it into Fam0.7? |
| 17:21.44 | mccarthy | nils__: I always bug nelson :) |
| 17:22.22 | nils__ | mccarthy: Oh well, then he'll have a hard weekend :) |
| 17:23.21 | jg | nils__: upload to unstable, so that you and others can test, and tell nelson to put into .7 feed. |
| 17:23.47 | jg | Nothing goes into the release feed without explicit action being taken.... |
| 17:23.56 | florian | mccarthy: gpe-bluetooth... works fine now :-) |
| 17:24.19 | mccarthy | florian: ahh. no bluetooth here (unfortunately) |
| 17:24.31 | jg | nils__: and make sure Nelson doesn't drop the package on the floor, of course... |
| 17:24.59 | mccarthy | btw nils__ greader is listed in the tsk packages but is *not* in the 0.7 feed |
| 17:27.08 | nils__ | mccarthy: Oh oh! Who has added it into the task package then? That's tha same to blame for not bringing it into the feed... |
| 17:27.30 | mccarthy | I think pb_ |
| 17:27.41 | nils__ | jg: OK, thanks. That'll be some inetersting days :)) The new matchbox package is done, BTW... |
| 17:28.15 | nils__ | mccarthy: Perfect! He should be back in a few minutes. Please remind him, OK? For the time beeing I'll add it to the WiKi. |
| 17:30.31 | nils__ | jg: Oh BTW: Have you noticed that in the released Vera fonts there is a typo in the internal fontnames! They advertise as "bitsteam" instead of "bitstream". |
| 17:33.26 | jg | nils__: I guess I'd seen that... Oh well.... |
| 17:34.47 | nils__ | jg: Makes xfontsel look funny, that's where I first noticed it. BTW: The new matchbox package is in unstable now. |
| 17:37.50 | pb_ | phew! meeting over. |
| 17:38.54 | mccarthy | pb_: you missed a lot :) |
| 17:39.16 | pb_ | heh. |
| 17:39.39 | nils__ | pb_: And, good meeting? Good news :) ? |
| 17:39.54 | nils__ | pb_: In the meantime we had quite some fun deciding numbers :) |
| 17:40.02 | jg | pb_: the /etc/Xserver file is in gpe-dm, so you get to fix that.... |
| 17:40.03 | pb_ | Yeah, I was just skimming the scrollback :-) |
| 17:40.12 | pb_ | jg: ah, lucky old me. |
| 17:40.22 | jg | 5 minute fix.... |
| 17:40.40 | pb_ | okay. the one in the release notes, right? |
| 17:40.46 | mccarthy | damn. debian doesnt run on my old SGI O2 :( |
| 17:41.01 | pb_ | mccarthy: ah, you're attempting to join the SGI crowd? |
| 17:41.22 | mccarthy | pb_: no I gave up on SGI about 4 years ago, I just have hardware lying around still |
| 17:41.38 | florian | mccarthy: why this? i saw a screenshot of linux on an o2 lately |
| 17:41.48 | mccarthy | pb_: just tried using IRIX again the other day (for the first time in years) and got frustrated |
| 17:41.57 | nils__ | Hmmm... SGIs are quite nice toys! Just a pity that the nice 3D hardware is not so well supported with a nice OS like Linux. |
| 17:42.01 | ade|desk | mccarthy: sgi O2 whick cpu ? |
| 17:42.09 | mccarthy | florian: really? it might have been an R5000 CPU, I have an R10000 |
| 17:42.19 | mccarthy | ade|desk: R10000 |
| 17:42.40 | ade|desk | the r5k is supported the r10k aint as yet |
| 17:43.01 | mccarthy | florian ade|desk: any idea if octanes work? |
| 17:43.05 | florian | mccarthy: oh yes, this could be - maybe look at the debian mips porting site... they have some info |
| 17:43.09 | mccarthy | I think thats R10000 as well |
| 17:43.17 | nelson | nils__: what package are you wanting me to include? |
| 17:43.26 | ade|desk | the R10k works in theory only atm |
| 17:43.28 | mccarthy | florian: yep, they say no dice on R10000 I thought you might have newer info |
| 17:43.46 | nelson | nils__: Basically, the way it works is I compare 0.7 and unstable, and if I think a package should go, it goes. |
| 17:43.56 | nils__ | mccarthy: You could also directly ask flo@rfc822.org He is maintaining the Debian SGI/MIPS part. |
| 17:44.03 | nelson | nils__: generally, I've been trusting the GPE folks to care care of their (your) own. |
| 17:44.29 | florian | mccarthy: not really... well i wanted to say mor or less the same as nils :-) |
| 17:44.30 | ade|desk | mccarthy: #mipslinux is always there for you :) |
| 17:44.39 | mccarthy | nils__: thanks for the email address, I might ask about amailing list or some such |
| 17:44.42 | nils__ | nelson: Great :) So then please catch the new matchbox package from unstable... |
| 17:45.01 | ade|desk | mccarthy: but they will push you towards RH installs and toolchains |
| 17:45.52 | mccarthy | ade|desk: RH installs ? |
| 17:45.55 | nelson | nils__: will do. By the way, did you change mbstart to set the font size to sans-7 |
| 17:46.13 | nils__ | nelson: That is exactly what had changed in the new version :) |
| 17:46.17 | jg | nils__, nelson: latest matchbox in unstable seems to work for me.... |
| 17:46.22 | nelson | hehe. |
| 17:46.25 | ade|desk | mccarthy: RH installs on r4k and r5k |
| 17:46.49 | nils__ | jg: For me too, great! Then we can close this "bug". |
| 17:46.53 | nelson | OKay, this is a general GPE question: should Greader go into 0.7? What about gpe-aerial (is that the right name, florian)? |
| 17:46.55 | ade|desk | mccarthy: but the kernel toolchains are rpms |
| 17:46.58 | ade|desk | mostly |
| 17:46.59 | mccarthy | ade|desk: what does RH stand for?! |
| 17:47.10 | pb_ | mccarthy: red hat |
| 17:47.10 | jg | nelson: gpe-aerial just filled my ram... |
| 17:47.11 | ade|desk | RH redhat |
| 17:47.11 | mccarthy | should the greader icon be transparent?! |
| 17:47.20 | *** join/#gpe dc___ (~dc@modem-237-47-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 17:47.34 | mccarthy | ade|desk: oh. I didnt think RH actually ported to 8anything* other than x86 |
| 17:47.41 | mccarthy | (I use RH on all my work boxes) |
| 17:47.51 | florian | nelson: greader is not perfectly stable, but it works... |
| 17:47.52 | mccarthy | other than my SGIs of course :) |
| 17:48.07 | pb_ | nelson: yes, I think including greader would be worthwhile. not sure about gpe-aerial. |
| 17:48.10 | nelson | jg: sounds like maybe not gpe-aerial. :-) |
| 17:48.29 | florian | mccarthy: RH alpha was there... at least some time. |
| 17:48.42 | jg | nelson, florian: what happened is that I didn't have the right wireless card in, so my Xsession-error file in my home directory filled up with messages about not being able to turn the card into the right mode.... |
| 17:49.16 | florian | jg: that's interesting... i should look at this. |
| 17:50.29 | jg | florian: would be nice to have the app, but I suspect it should not go into the release until/unless that problem gets fixed, as many people won't have the debugging skills to go figure out what filled their RAM, as I did... |
| 17:51.59 | jg | nelson: you changed the name of the bootldr file in the tarballs, without either: 1) fixing the bootldr install directions, or 2) at least telling me.... |
| 17:52.09 | florian | nelson: gpe-aerial (yep, the name is correct) i s not well tested and the backend is quite complex - i would wait some time... additionally most wireless lan drivers don't work well in monitor mode (at the moment only orinoco) |
| 17:54.20 | florian | jg: yep, right you are - i think it sould be easy to fix this issue, but the drivers and the scanner backend are not really reliable :-/ |
| 17:55.18 | jg | florian: I got my orinoco back today, so I can finally really try it out... |
| 17:56.09 | mccarthy | ade|desk: it seems that #mipslinux is in fact *not* there for me :) |
| 17:56.39 | ade|desk | mccarthy: most are german/russian and nolonger at work :( |
| 17:57.12 | nelson | jg: yeah, IMHO, Xsession-error shouldn't be allowed to get larger than some small size. If it does, then it opens up a window to show it to you, cuz yer gonna wanna know why.... |
| 17:57.46 | jg | nelson: yup. It is always something *bad* happening.... |
| 17:58.04 | nelson | jg: uh-oh. Sorry about changing the name. |
| 17:58.06 | ade|desk | mccarthy: ralf is the guy to talk to about kernel for r10k. the userland stuff is there for most of the mips types |
| 17:58.22 | nelson | florian: okay, no gpe-aerial, then. |
| 17:59.16 | nelson | jg: I *could* call it bootldr.bin in either image. Very unlikely that somebody would get the wrong one. |
| 17:59.25 | nils__ | mccarthy: Ask flo@rfc822.org ... (Florian Lohoff). He should know :) He is a long time MIPS hacker... |
| 17:59.45 | nelson | jg: safer, I think, to complicate the directions and say "bootldr-WHATEVER-2.10.1.bin". |
| 18:02.55 | florian | jg: ah cool - i'll do some tests later too :-) |
| 18:03.18 | florian | nelson: ok |
| 18:04.29 | jg | nelson: I've already updated/clarified the synce instructions. |
| 18:07.29 | florian | does someone create a new greader package? |
| 18:08.06 | pb_ | back in 30 minutes or so |
| 18:08.37 | jg | what is greader, anyway? |
| 18:09.19 | mccarthy | jg: just a textreader (for e-books) |
| 18:09.31 | mccarthy | presumably more file formats will be added |
| 18:09.36 | jg | mccarthy: what sort of e-books? |
| 18:09.49 | nils__ | jg: Regular ASCII texts... |
| 18:09.56 | mccarthy | jg: test ones :) |
| 18:10.02 | mccarthy | oops text ones |
| 18:11.33 | jg | greader's icon needs some work... |
| 18:11.53 | jg | has a white background... |
| 18:11.58 | mccarthy | jg: definitely |
| 18:12.08 | mccarthy | at least transparency |
| 18:12.24 | jg | yup. |
| 18:12.56 | mccarthy | ade|desk: this nfsroot thing means that I can install all kinds of debian-mips stuff on my x86 box and simply mount it from my (unaltered) O2?! |
| 18:13.07 | mccarthy | oops wrong group...sorry gpe guys :) |
| 18:14.28 | florian | http://www.handhelds.org/~florian/penguin-reader.png |
| 18:14.37 | florian | thi is the fixed version |
| 18:15.19 | florian | mccarthy: no problems, i think most of us own mips boxes :-) |
| 18:22.38 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 18:23.25 | nelson | jg: it will read gzipped text files. |
| 18:36.04 | jg | florian: sigh.. Even with the Lucent Orinoco silver I can't get gpe-aerial to do anything useful for me.... |
| 18:37.39 | florian | jg: this is bad - any idea what goes wrong? |
| 18:41.12 | jg | florian: nope: I just get blank pages when I look at the networks... page. |
| 18:44.42 | florian | jg: hmm, would you like to start it from a terminal to look what it says?! |
| 18:44.49 | jg | sure. |
| 18:44.53 | florian | jg: Do you use orinoco_cs? |
| 18:45.40 | florian | jg: And which kernel? |
| 18:45.56 | jg | exactly what I get out of the feeds.... |
| 18:46.24 | jg | looks like it gives me wvlan_cs |
| 18:47.10 | florian | ahh, this is possible that's this the default in pcmcia/config... this should be changed. afaik it's not maintained anymore |
| 18:52.37 | nils__ | BTW: Is it possible that the spectrum24 modules in the feed have no effect at all? They do not install a config file or add a config option and thus never get loaded :( And which modules are those? The "old" kernel spectrum24 drivers? Oh well... |
| 18:53.49 | jg | florian: and how do I change it? |
| 18:55.05 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:55.33 | florian | jg: the easiest way would be to use gpe-conf - the pcmcia module allows you to change the driver binding for your card. the other way would be to edit /etc/pcmcia/config |
| 18:55.43 | pb_ | re |
| 18:56.23 | florian | jg: therefore you should search for the id you get by "cardctl ident" |
| 18:57.13 | florian | pb_: wb |
| 18:59.11 | pb_ | so, are there any tasks I should take care of? |
| 19:00.27 | florian | pb_: i think there are some things at the wiki page for you |
| 19:00.45 | florian | what about the dm fix? |
| 19:00.47 | pb_ | aha. |
| 19:02.42 | pb_ | okay, I'll take care of that. Do I need to do anything for greader, other than ask Russ to move the new task package and greader itself into 0.7? |
| 19:03.05 | jg | florian: Ok, that got it working. |
| 19:03.19 | jg | florian: several comments: |
| 19:03.43 | florian | pb_: adding the fixed icon to the package :-) |
| 19:03.59 | pb_ | ah right. can we ask Greg to do that? |
| 19:04.29 | pb_ | if he doesn't respond by say Saturday lunchtime, I'll take care of it then. |
| 19:04.37 | florian | ok |
| 19:05.45 | jg | florian: 1) if we're using the wrong driver, we should get it fixed... Bugzilla it. 2) you need scroll bars: we have too many networks around here for it to fit on one screen.... 3) the State icon is huge, compounding 2). 4) the colors are too saturated, making it hard to read. |
| 19:06.21 | jg | florian: Last I knew, we could detect at least 70 or 80 access points from here, on a bunch of networks.... |
| 19:07.06 | jg | florian: in any case, a very nice start indeed! |
| 19:07.10 | moray | jg: Ah, sounds impressive, though presumably it makes things a bit congested. |
| 19:07.16 | nils__ | jg: One AP for every member of the staff??? |
| 19:07.29 | florian | jg: where are you?! we have about that much in our whole city... |
| 19:07.37 | jg | nils__: No, we're on the 11th and 12th floor of a building near MIT... |
| 19:07.43 | jg | There are networks all around us. |
| 19:07.56 | jg | My network doesn't even happen to be on the screen it happens to display. |
| 19:08.22 | nils__ | jg: This gives even more proof of the fact that such an application is needed! |
| 19:08.38 | florian | oops... ok, i'll take care about this displaying issues... |
| 19:09.16 | jg | florian: waht is the state icon supposed to indicate? |
| 19:09.35 | jg | nils__: yes, the application is extremely badly needed in many environments. |
| 19:10.06 | jg | We run 2 nets: the public net, anyone can connect to, and a few access points for other work on HP's internal net (encrypted). |
| 19:10.08 | florian | jg: at the moment it only shows what kind of net this is (managed/ad-hoc) but i want to add some more info to it... |
| 19:12.02 | jg | So out of the box, I detected 6 networks.... |
| 19:13.06 | jg | (that I could see on the screen; the sixth was mostly off the screen). |
| 19:14.07 | florian | ok, then it's a good idea to add scrollabrs and reduce the size of the icons |
| 19:19.31 | florian | (i'll do this after some gpe-conf tweaks...) |
| 19:19.40 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 19:21.42 | nils__ | pb_: Any news on gpe-dm? Would please also update the WiKi page when done? Thanks! |
| 19:21.50 | nils__ | Oh well, looks great! |
| 19:21.59 | nils__ | We're getting there, I feel it :)) |
| 19:22.28 | jg | florian: seems like a plan. When shaken down, aerial will be absolutely wonderful! |
| 19:23.16 | nils__ | I'll try to take care of gpe-contacts now... |
| 19:24.12 | pb_ | nils__: I'll look at gpe-dm very shortly. |
| 19:24.24 | jg | florian: you should also interrogate Andy for ideas: he can poke at the fluke network monitor and see what it does that aerial does not that might be useful. Andy won't be back until next week though.... |
| 19:24.26 | pb_ | florian: will you write to Greg, or shall I? |
| 19:25.34 | florian | pb_: i'll do this :-) |
| 19:25.50 | pb_ | florian: thanks |
| 19:25.53 | florian | jg: thanks :-) |
| 19:26.48 | jg | florian: Fluke gets $4k for their monitor (which runs Linux on iPAQ); we're in the wrong business.... |
| 19:27.55 | pb_ | jg: heh, HP's test equipment division doesn't seem to do badly on sale price either. |
| 19:30.52 | pb_ | okay, I'm changing gpe-dm now. just to confirm, it's vbgr for h3600 and h3900; rgb for h3100 and h3800. right? |
| 19:31.18 | jg | pb_: so I think... |
| 19:31.25 | jg | per the release notes.... |
| 19:31.46 | mccarthy | pb_: you are a debian guru right? can you install debian on an nfsroot'd dir? |
| 19:31.56 | pb_ | mccarthy: yeah, I think so. |
| 19:32.05 | pb_ | (to the latter part of your question, not necessarily the former) |
| 19:32.07 | pb_ | jg: ok. |
| 19:51.52 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-202-54-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 20:01.06 | pb_ | new gpe-dm is uploaded/ |
| 20:01.07 | pb_ | . |
| 20:01.32 | florian | ah, great |
| 20:20.05 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~deb-user@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 20:30.59 | nils__ | OT: Does anyone know when kernel 2.4.21 is scheduled to be released? |
| 20:43.36 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.20229.png |
| 20:43.54 | florian | This is a gtk_message_dialog... |
| 20:44.21 | pb_ | Oh, hell, yeah. I should have undone that gtk change, but I forgot. |
| 20:44.29 | florian | Anyone an idea how to fix this bad line wrap? |
| 20:44.45 | pb_ | Well, I can make a new gtk, but I'm a bit loath to do that at this late stage. |
| 20:45.02 | PaxAnima | florian: make a better gtk_message_dialog? |
| 20:45.22 | PaxAnima | at least one that creates a proper label... |
| 20:45.25 | pb_ | as a workaround, selecting a smaller icon would probably conceal the problem. |
| 20:45.39 | pb_ | PaxAnima: gtk_message_dialog is not doing anything wrong. it is GtkLabel at fault. |
| 20:45.42 | florian | PaxAnima: yeah, wouls be a solution... if nothing else helps :-/ |
| 20:46.26 | PaxAnima | I think all icons are way too large as they are, IMHO |
| 20:46.34 | florian | ok, how to make this icon smaller?! |
| 20:46.46 | pb_ | with xsettings. let me look. |
| 20:47.25 | pb_ | try xst write Gtk/IconSizes str "gtk-dialog=24,24:gtk-button=16,16" |
| 20:47.41 | PaxAnima | florian: I got some code in minipredict for predicting the size of the label, if you feel like making a smarter label-thing |
| 20:48.48 | florian | PaxAnima: yep, but after the fixes for the release..... |
| 20:48.54 | pb_ | unfortunately, the gtklabel bug is very hard to solve properly. But I think we can make some changes to make it less obvious. |
| 20:49.18 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.12519.png |
| 20:49.20 | pb_ | This was something that was going to be changed in gtk 2.4, but I think it has now been pushed back to gtk 2.6. :-/ |
| 20:49.27 | florian | ok, this would work |
| 20:49.44 | pb_ | ah, that's a bit smaller than I had hoped, but I guess it's an improvement. |
| 20:49.58 | pb_ | It seems to have gone for 16x16 there. |
| 20:50.51 | florian | 30x30 looks good |
| 20:51.04 | pb_ | ah, ok, cool |
| 20:51.37 | pb_ | The default for that is set in gpe-session-scripts. Let me know if you want me to make a new package. |
| 20:51.48 | PaxAnima | IMHO, that's a correct size, compared to the rest of the sizes in the window, e.g. mbdock |
| 20:52.24 | PaxAnima | window = screen |
| 20:53.00 | florian | hmm really... this would be a good idea for making a really rock solid looking release. |
| 20:53.33 | pb_ | ok. suggest you play with it a bit first, to make sure there are no bad effects in other programs. |
| 20:53.42 | pb_ | I don't expect there will be, but best to be sure. |
| 20:54.19 | florian | ok, i'll kep the currett setting.... and play around a little bit... |
| 20:54.25 | pb_ | cool |
| 20:55.18 | pb_ | did anybody try out the new gpe-dm yet? it'd be good to have confirmation that the rgb order is right on all models. |
| 20:55.45 | pb_ | I can test h3900. any volunteers for h3800 and h3600? |
| 20:56.02 | florian | ok, i'll get it... |
| 20:56.08 | pb_ | thanks |
| 20:56.08 | florian | (3800) |
| 20:56.26 | pb_ | but first, dinner. back in a few. |
| 21:01.34 | florian | I got an answer from Greg, he'll create a new package with the fixed icon and some other bugfixes. |
| 21:11.10 | moray | pb_: gah, I've got something which would fix nelson's keylaunch problem, but now 'normal' press events are running their programs twice... |
| 21:12.24 | PaxAnima | moray: twice? |
| 21:12.49 | *** join/#gpe TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-68-166-68-149.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 21:16.01 | nelson | moray: :-) |
| 21:18.29 | moray | hm, closer, now it only *sometimes* runs the thing twice ;) |
| 21:19.30 | PaxAnima | ;) |
| 21:21.45 | *** part/#gpe nomis (simon@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) |
| 21:29.14 | nils__ | Anyone ineterested in a quick test of a new gpe-contacts version? I could pass around a drop-in replacement binary and buils a package later... |
| 21:29.26 | nils__ | For Florian and me it works perfectly. |
| 21:30.28 | pb_ | moray: dang! |
| 21:30.39 | pb_ | florian: cool! |
| 21:31.31 | nils__ | pb_: You seem to be the gpe-contacts maintainer... shall I build a new package or do you want to? |
| 21:31.44 | pb_ | nils__: I can do it, if your changes are checked in. |
| 21:32.20 | pb_ | Or is this just a build from the existing CVS sources? |
| 21:32.22 | nils__ | pb_: I have not changed anything, just built a new binary from CVS and tested it; so far tests are successful! |
| 21:32.39 | pb_ | Okay, great. In that case I'll make a new package. |
| 21:32.47 | nils__ | pb_: Superb! |
| 21:41.04 | moray | right, keylaunch is now doing the right thing on my desktop; can someone test within GPE? |
| 21:41.42 | pb_ | yep. want to make a new package? |
| 21:42.35 | moray | (the questions are: whether it behaves normally; whether dimming/undimming at the locked screen works; whether the fake key event still gets through to gpe-soundbite so that holding the record button for a long time records a file of that length) |
| 21:44.17 | *** join/#gpe paul (~paul@itg-gw.cr008.cwt.esat.net) |
| 21:45.06 | nils__ | Oh, and while we have so many of us here, who will attend GUADEC? |
| 21:45.08 | moray | pb_: (new) 2.0.3 should be in CVS, but I still haven't got my ipaq/arm/arm build setup back into any useful state |
| 21:45.22 | moray | nils__: I will |
| 21:45.23 | pb_ | ah, okay, I'll do the package then. |
| 21:45.27 | pb_ | nils__: I'll be there. |
| 21:46.05 | nils__ | moray pb_: Great! Anyone else? Someone from CRL? |
| 21:46.12 | pb_ | nils__: Jim will be there, I think. |
| 21:47.22 | nils__ | Perfect :) If someone wants something special to be presented at the talk or even participate, please be my guest :) |
| 21:48.40 | pb_ | Cool. Do you have an outline of what you plan to include in your talk so far? |
| 21:50.30 | nils__ | pb_: No, sorry, no real idea yet. I have been pretty under pressure here with other things. I'll have to do that _quickly_ now. |
| 21:57.49 | pb_ | nils__: Aha. :-) |
| 22:00.46 | nils__ | pb_: Since we had a GPE presentation already last year one of the most important points will of course be the progress since last year. |
| 22:01.25 | pb_ | Yes, good thinking. |
| 22:02.33 | nils__ | pb_: Second I'd like to go somewhat into the sync direction. i.e. something along GPE<->GNOME integration. For now it will be more an academic excersize than real rpesentation. Some thoughts maybe to get things and discussions started. |
| 22:03.02 | nils__ | And last but not least of course demo! Motivate some more people to hack on GPE and help especially with this nasty sync thing. |
| 22:03.08 | pb_ | nils__: Yes. It'd certainly be good to talk about ways that GPE and GNOME can work together, both syncing and sharing code. |
| 22:04.46 | nils__ | pb_: Oh... My primary thought was syncing... sharing code? Do you have something special in mind? Currently this is very limited... |
| 22:07.16 | *** join/#gpe dc___ (~dc@modem-181-41-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 22:07.36 | pb_ | No, nothing particularly comes to mind (except maybe the GNOME bluetooth libs, but that's not a very good example). Maybe there's nothing to be done there: I just sometimes get the feeling that we are not doing quite as well at leveraging all the GNOME technologies as we could. |
| 22:08.26 | pb_ | mostly it's trivial stuff; for example, we need to apply a set of patches to libgnomevfs in order to build the familiar packages, to cut out the Bonobo dependencies. |
| 22:08.55 | pb_ | right, gpe-contacts 0.14 is uploaded (plus de translation) |
| 22:09.54 | nils__ | pb_: Perfect! |
| 22:10.02 | pb_ | moray: keylaunch 2.0.3 also uploaded. |
| 22:12.35 | pb_ | now to test some of this stuff! |
| 22:14.29 | pb_ | hm, ipkg is still prompting me about a load of conffiles that I'm fairly sure I haven't actually changed. |
| 22:23.00 | nils__ | So far everything looks really good to me! |
| 22:23.44 | pb_ | great! |
| 22:23.56 | pb_ | just need Damien to fix that filemanager thing. |
| 22:24.00 | moray | is someone going to get these changed packages pushed into 0.7 btw? |
| 22:24.25 | nils__ | moray: Rus said he would if we tell him which. |
| 22:24.31 | moray | dc___: fixed the filemanager yet? ;) |
| 22:24.33 | florian | ok, gpe-conf packages are uploaded... including german translation :-) |
| 22:24.38 | pb_ | I made a section on the wiki page to list the packages that need pushing. |
| 22:24.48 | moray | ah good. |
| 22:24.55 | pigeon | morning gpers again :)~ |
| 22:24.57 | pb_ | florian: sounds like the German language team have been very diligent. |
| 22:25.01 | pb_ | hi pigeon :-) |
| 22:25.45 | pb_ | moray: well, to be fair to dc, I suspect the bug is in the mibuswidget, which is a notorious maintainability nightmare. |
| 22:25.59 | moray | ah yes... |
| 22:25.59 | florian | pb_: yep, i think cmargu did this.... |
| 22:27.16 | pb_ | jg: which rgb order does the xserver use if none is specified? |
| 22:27.44 | pigeon | pb_: :))))))))))))))))) |
| 22:27.44 | pb_ | or, to put it another way, which platforms should we be seeing a difference on? |
| 22:27.52 | pb_ | pigeon: ! |
| 22:28.08 | pigeon | yo... how's it going... |
| 22:28.11 | pb_ | Ah, this new mbdesktop font is much clearer. |
| 22:28.36 | pb_ | pigeon: Going well. How's it going with you? |
| 22:29.08 | pigeon | Not too bad, except the cold. |
| 22:37.48 | nils__ | pb_: How much work is such a new bootimage with our new packages? |
| 22:39.04 | pb_ | nils__: Not a great amount, I don't think. |
| 22:39.28 | pb_ | nelson: could you check in your latest version of make-busyboot, or put it in your handhelds.org directory? |
| 22:41.07 | nils__ | pb_: Maybe we could have a new bootimage tonight for testing? Just to make sure we did not miss anything... |
| 22:41.22 | pb_ | nils__: Yep, I should be able to manage that. |
| 22:41.56 | nils__ | pb_: Hey great! |
| 22:42.21 | pb_ | We'll need to set up a feed to build from. I could just use unstable, but it would probably be better to use 0.7 plus the particular updates we want. |
| 22:43.45 | pb_ | I'll use the list of packages on the wiki page. So, if there are any others that need to be updated, please put them there. |
| 22:44.22 | pb_ | florian: thoughts on that icon thing? should I build a new session-scripts, and if so what should I set the property to? |
| 22:50.13 | florian | pb_: i think these 30x30 is ok - i didn't run into trouble with that. |
| 22:50.41 | pb_ | florian: okay. |
| 22:52.35 | pb_ | right, I uploaded gpe-session-scripts 0.44 with that change. |
| 22:54.17 | florian | great |
| 22:56.50 | pb_ | moray: hm, not sure keylaunch is working quite right. |
| 22:57.32 | pb_ | the backlight on/off at locked screen seems to be a bit flaky. sometimes it works, sometimes it toggles and then immediately toggles back, sometimes it does nothing. |
| 22:57.33 | *** join/#gpe walters (walters@verbum.org) |
| 22:57.53 | moray | pb_: hm, intriguing :/ |
| 22:58.34 | pb_ | better than it was, though, and probably good enough for 0.7. |
| 22:58.58 | moray | pb_: yes, if the 'normal' bits are still working I suppose it wouldn't be disastrous as is |
| 23:00.12 | pb_ | Seems to be, though I wasn't able to test soundbite recording due to lack of audio support on h3900. |
| 23:00.52 | moray | pb_: if you do get another image made I'll have a look... |
| 23:01.49 | pb_ | yeah, just waiting for latest script from nelson. |
| 23:03.29 | pb_ | florian: want me to rebuild gpe-bluetooth with that window border change? |
| 23:06.17 | florian | pb_: would be nice, but do this after all the other stuff... i don't think this is that important |
| 23:06.25 | pb_ | okay. |
| 23:06.34 | pb_ | just noticed that several of the games seem to lack startup notification. |
| 23:07.09 | pb_ | julia, lights and othello are affected. any volunteers to fix that? |
| 23:07.45 | pb_ | also, the text in codebreaker goes off the side of the screen with the default font, can we do anything about that? |
| 23:07.53 | pigeon | dc___: ! |
| 23:08.43 | pb_ | Word completion also lacks startup notify, it seems. |
| 23:17.58 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-181-41-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 23:31.17 | pb_ | http://handhelds.org/~pb/0.7-rc2.1/ is the feed URL to put in ipkg.conf if you want to get the updated package set. |
| 23:32.33 | pb_ | any further changes before I try building new images? |
| 23:34.05 | nelson | pb_: oh, right, latest script. |
| 23:35.01 | dc_ | hum! |
| 23:35.15 | dc_ | this is weird... |
| 23:35.33 | nils__ | pb_: Not from me... Florian? |
| 23:35.47 | florian | nope |
| 23:35.56 | pb_ | great. |
| 23:36.06 | pb_ | dc_: what's that? |
| 23:36.07 | florian | gpe-conf from unstable feed if it's not in.... |
| 23:36.13 | dc_ | if I want to have eth0 and wlan0 up at the same time, on the same netmask and ip sector (?), is that possible. |
| 23:36.38 | nils__ | dc_: Not with the same netmask I think... |
| 23:36.48 | dc_ | like I want eth0 to be 192.168.0.66 and connected to a laptop at 192.168.0.68 via a crossover cable... |
| 23:36.50 | dc_ | hrm... |
| 23:36.59 | dc_ | then wlan0 needs to be on 192.168.0.1 |
| 23:37.18 | dc_ | okay...so can I just set eth0 as 255.255.254.0 then or something..? |
| 23:37.23 | pb_ | dc_: is it important that the interfaces on the wired network be on the same 192.168.0.x subnet? |
| 23:37.30 | dc_ | pb_: not really. |
| 23:37.52 | pb_ | dc_: then, suggest you set eth0 as 192.168.1.66 and the laptop's peer interface as 192.168.1.68. |
| 23:37.55 | dc_ | pb_: the laptop just needs to be able to reach the main 192.168.0.x network. |
| 23:38.32 | dc_ | pb_: ah okay, doh. then just do route add -host 192.168.1.66 (or .68?) gw 192.168.0.1 on the firewall |
| 23:38.58 | pb_ | yep, or in fact route -add -net 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.0.1 |
| 23:39.44 | dc_ | ah right |
| 23:39.45 | dc_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.32 | pigeon | dc_: :O |
| 23:43.02 | nelson | pb_: make-busyboot brought up to date. |
| 23:43.07 | pb_ | nelson: thanks! |
| 23:44.46 | pb_ | nelson: ah, is there some place I can get the ipkg-*.conf files it wants? |
| 23:46.34 | nelson | pb_: cvs. |
| 23:46.53 | dc_ | what do I set the laptop's route to? |
| 23:46.57 | dc_ | gateway eveb |
| 23:47.01 | dc_ | s/b/n/ |
| 23:47.12 | pb_ | dc_: 192.168.1.66 |
| 23:49.17 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-40-54-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 23:50.01 | dc__ | right. |
| 23:50.15 | dc__ | so laptop is 192.168.1.68, desktop is 192.168.1.66 |
| 23:50.31 | dc__ | although I can't ping 192.168.1.68 |
| 23:50.42 | pb_ | from the desktop? sounds like a bad sign. |
| 23:50.46 | dc__ | indeed. |
| 23:51.04 | pb_ | does ifconfig show traffic on eth0? |
| 23:51.06 | dc__ | but if wlan0 is down, I can. |
| 23:51.15 | dc__ | it does. |
| 23:51.21 | pb_ | oh, hm. what's the routing table look like on the desktop? |
| 23:51.28 | dc__ | RX packets:360 |
| 23:51.32 | dc__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:51.35 | dc__ | for eth0. |
| 23:52.01 | pb_ | nelson: do you use a particular version of ipkg? 0.99.83 doesn't seem to be working well for me for the bootstrap images. |
