| 00:11.30 | *** join/#gpe dneuer (~smoothie@192.204.192.36) |
| 00:34.26 | *** join/#gpe jg (~jg@dialup-63.214.85.157.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) |
| 01:58.44 | *** join/#gpe flypiper|road (mark@000-048-988.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 02:04.11 | *** part/#gpe flypiper|road (mark@000-048-988.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 06:23.48 | *** join/#gpe florian (boor@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) |
| 06:23.57 | florian | morning! |
| 07:07.26 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 07:07.49 | florian | PaxAnima: morning... |
| 07:08.07 | PaxAnima | morning, florian |
| 07:25.26 | PaxAnima | played around with gtkrc stuff for psCalc, as seen on http://handhelds.org/scap/port.28640.png last night... |
| 07:26.23 | florian | hey, this looks cool... |
| 07:27.12 | florian | yes, should be much easier to use. |
| 07:27.30 | PaxAnima | maybe not the best color choices... |
| 07:29.23 | florian | hmm, maybe - but better than before... |
| 07:29.41 | PaxAnima | ;) |
| 07:31.57 | PaxAnima | and as the colour is defined in a gtkrc, there shouldn't be a problem to use .pngs for the buttons, if so desired... |
| 07:34.52 | florian | hm yes... a symbol for PI e.g. would be nice |
| 07:36.33 | PaxAnima | there must be a unicode for PI? |
| 07:37.28 | *** join/#gpe HET2 (~diman@chello080110105196.509.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 07:37.56 | florian | Yes, definitely... i think it will be there in most fonts... |
| 07:41.12 | PaxAnima | the code is "1d72b"... how do I use it as utf8 string? |
| 07:45.16 | florian | very good quesion... |
| 07:46.23 | PaxAnima | got to go play some squash... bbl |
| 08:09.27 | *** join/#gpe HET4 (~diman@chello080110105196.509.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 08:27.44 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 08:28.26 | florian | cmarqu_werk: hi |
| 08:30.21 | cmarqu_werk | Hi florian |
| 08:34.02 | cmarqu_werk | Wow. pscalc looks cool with the coloured buttons. |
| 08:34.33 | florian | yes, really... |
| 08:36.59 | cmarqu_werk | The effort was worth it IMO. Now, the list window needs some coloring too :) |
| 08:37.55 | cmarqu_werk | florian: The green "ready" text is maybe a bit too bright to be well readable. Can you make it a dark green? |
| 08:39.14 | florian | cmarqu_werk: yep, no problem... finding correct icons for manual card control is much harder :-/ |
| 08:40.12 | cmarqu_werk | Ah. What do you need? I am in pretty good contact with one of the art.gnome.org guys, maybe he knows about some. |
| 08:40.32 | cmarqu_werk | You mean eject, reset, insert etc.? |
| 08:41.01 | florian | yep |
| 08:43.52 | cmarqu_werk | eject = red upward arrow, insert = green downward arrow? |
| 08:44.15 | cmarqu_werk | reset = red circular "screen rotation" arrows? |
| 08:44.35 | cmarqu_werk | status/ident = question mark |
| 08:45.08 | cmarqu_werk | But maybe let dc handle that :) |
| 08:46.28 | florian | :-) sounds good... then i need "suspend" and "resume" |
| 08:46.33 | cmarqu_werk | Or is it better to have a textual version, with a drop-down list? |
| 08:46.58 | cmarqu_werk | suspend = the moon icon from gnome's "log out"? |
| 08:47.10 | cmarqu_werk | resume = rising sun :) |
| 08:48.10 | florian | i dont't think this is a good idea... this is nasty to use and doesn't fit with other guis |
| 08:48.42 | florian | too small... but maybe there is a larger moon somewhere... |
| 08:49.33 | cmarqu_werk | ISTR one. |
| 08:50.19 | florian | heh? |
| 08:50.30 | cmarqu_werk | I seem to remember one :) |
| 08:50.59 | florian | Ahh... :-) Try to remember an URL :-)) |
| 08:52.12 | cmarqu_werk | I cannot really look right now. LEt me do it this evening. |
| 08:52.45 | florian | No problem - maybe i find one later... |
| 08:53.21 | florian | The icon i use for the cardinfo module needs to be updated too :-/ |
| 08:53.54 | cmarqu_werk | Roman (the art.gnome.org guy) has the xcf files for some of the icons, so if you need just some layers to construct new ones, I can ask him. |
| 08:54.59 | florian | i don't think i'm good at constructing icons... :-/ |
| 08:56.28 | cmarqu_werk | I'm not good in Gimp in general. The menus etc. are not made for my brain. |
| 08:59.00 | florian | some things are strange in gimp... but i like it... maybe i should try it... or not? |
| 09:02.48 | cmarqu_werk | I'd make small icons from whatever you choose for the card, then overlay the arrows/moon/sun and display it in dc's new iconlist |
| 09:04.26 | florian | sounds good... |
| 09:05.10 | florian | but i don't have much free space in this window... i think i need to create a small toolbar... |
| 09:06.33 | cmarqu_werk | I thought you would make the card icon a button, and then it would pop up the icon list (two or three columns), looking a bit like gpe-sketchbook's color selector? |
| 09:10.20 | cmarqu_werk | Lunch, BBL |
| 09:10.25 | florian | you think about making the icon a combined switch, type indicator and status indicator? |
| 09:12.34 | florian | btw. changed colors are in cvs now... |
| 09:29.18 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb_@dsl-62-3-66-201.zen.co.uk) |
| 09:29.58 | pb_ | morning |
| 09:32.02 | florian | pb_: hello |
| 09:35.07 | florian | bbl |
| 12:38.40 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-21-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:39.30 | PaxAnima | hey, mallum |
| 12:40.49 | mallum | hey PaxAnima |
| 14:06.57 | *** join/#gpe dneuer (~dneuer@208.178.127.108) |
| 14:07.11 | dneuer | hey all, pb_ |
| 14:07.35 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@dialin-145-254-098-212.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:07.39 | florian | hi all |
| 14:07.45 | cmarqu_werk | Hi. |
| 14:08.08 | cmarqu_werk | [11:10] <florian> you think about making the icon a combined switch, type indicator and status indicator? |
| 14:08.25 | pb_ | hi dneuer, florian, cmarqu_werk |
| 14:08.28 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Yes, I think that could work. |
| 14:09.11 | florian | cmarqu_werk: sounds cool, but is much of work... |
| 14:11.52 | cmarqu_werk | florian: What did you have in mind? |
| 14:15.07 | florian | cmarqu_werk: adding these functions to the single button. i'm just playing with a toolbar and some gorilla-theme icons |
| 14:20.53 | cmarqu_werk | florian: You mean have the button as the type indicator, and then bind the cardctl functions to it (with an icon list)? |
| 14:21.07 | cmarqu_werk | Ah, no. Toolbar... |
| 14:21.49 | *** join/#gpe chrisime_ (~chrisime@p508025D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:21.52 | cmarqu_werk | I don't see what you mean by "adding these functions to the single button.", but I guess I can just wait what you come up with :) |
| 14:23.32 | florian | ah, ok - just wait what I'm doing... |
| 14:28.27 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 14:29.04 | cmarqu_werk | florian: one more idea: another notebook page could show information about the sleeve if one is present. |
| 14:30.24 | florian | cmarqu_werk: yes, yagi (yet anopther good idea) :-) |
| 14:37.19 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Go start producing one with your girlfriend :) |
| 14:38.54 | florian | ROTFL... |
| 14:40.25 | florian | the delivery would need way to long :-/ and a self-produced army of hackers is quite expersive... in time |
| 14:40.38 | florian | ;-)) |
| 14:41.28 | cmarqu_werk | Not only in time. |
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| 15:05.48 | *** join/#gpe prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9) |
| 15:06.23 | florian | cmarqu_werk: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.9267.png |
| 15:09.02 | pb_ | florian: looks nice! |
| 15:09.02 | florian | suspend and resume work, but seem to be unsable on my old kernel, eject and insert semm not to work on my ipaq. reset works too :-) |
| 15:09.24 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Ah. Hmm. The icons are not really self explanatory... let dc have a look at them. |
| 15:10.19 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Does it poll the sockets? E.g., what happens if I remove the card by hand? |
| 15:10.31 | florian | cmarqu_werk: yes, i chose the just to have working set... |
| 15:10.34 | pb_ | Mm, that's true. I also wonder if the CD/VCC/VPP/WP things are more confusing than useful. |
| 15:11.15 | florian | cmarqu_werk: this works - the status info is updated twice a second... |
| 15:11.42 | cmarqu_werk | I'd at least add "Flags: " before CD/VCC/VPP/WP, and be able to do gpe-what on them. |
| 15:11.47 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Cool. |
| 15:12.27 | florian | pb_: yes, this is really more for the advanced users... |
| 15:13.13 | florian | i just work on the hints for gpe-what, with the button bar this still works... |
| 15:13.52 | moray | possibly the buttons (eject etc.) ought to be on the tab, since they're specific to the card you're looking at? |
| 15:14.13 | moray | in that case I'd suggest just having the card name and status visible immediately |
| 15:14.30 | moray | then the rest of the stuff could be available in a 'details' (or something) popup window |
| 15:14.34 | cmarqu_werk | florian: The icon is not a button anymore, right? |
| 15:14.42 | pb_ | also, the "information for socket 0" is a bit redundant. Maybe you could put the card name up there instead. |
| 15:14.48 | moray | yes |
| 15:15.47 | cmarqu_werk | "Card:" and "Status:" would both fit right of the icon. |
| 15:16.01 | florian | cmarqu_werk: it's still a button, but it doesn't provide a function at the moment |
| 15:16.12 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Okay. |
| 15:17.19 | florian | pb_: hmm... yes, you're right... let me play with this gui :-) |
| 15:19.17 | florian | moray: the idea is right, but a buttonbar in the tab doesn't look nice... |
| 15:19.31 | moray | florian: no, you'd need something else |
| 15:20.01 | moray | florian: but to be honest, I think that number of similar buttons is going to confuse people even with help available |
| 15:21.11 | florian | moray: yes, i hope someone fins better icons for that - i just wanted to have something to work with. i think i'm not good at button pixeling... |
| 15:21.23 | florian | s/fins/finds |
| 15:24.51 | moray | florian: yes, and I don't think it matters too much for now - but I'm not sure if most people will know which of e.g. suspend/eject they want anyway (especially when they discover that 'eject' doesn't physically eject the card...) |
| 15:27.26 | florian | moray: right... maybe i'll remove this eject/insert feature - it is not really necessary. i added it because cardinfo provided this too. |
| 15:28.34 | cmarqu_werk | florian: eject would be useful as "unmount |
| 15:28.48 | cmarqu_werk | " for storage cards |
| 15:29.19 | cmarqu_werk | The available options probably should apply to the card type. |
| 15:29.38 | moray | florian: for some cards it's useful to have 'eject' perhaps to shut the card down before removal, but I don't know that the other options are so necessary |
| 15:29.46 | florian | yep, thats another good idea... |
| 15:29.57 | moray | florian: (it would hardly be terrible to have to remove and re-insert the card if you change your mind) |
| 15:31.01 | cmarqu_werk | Well, reset could be useful for Wifi cards for instance. |
| 15:31.22 | florian | moray: yep... |
| 15:33.25 | florian | i think it would be a good idea to extend this to a multi-purpose card handling applet, but this is really much work and therefore more something for after release 1.0 |
| 15:33.33 | moray | cmarqu_werk: I think we have a separate wlan configuration program anyway? |
| 15:33.36 | moray | florian: yes |
| 15:35.23 | florian | moray: we have, this is a quite complex abstraction of the wireless.opts file. execept a few bugs it runs quite well. but it's too complex for less advanced users |
| 15:36.00 | cmarqu_werk | moray: well, other cards could use reset too. VGA cards, GPS'es etc. |
| 15:36.37 | florian | that's it! - i need an applet to configure my GPS :-) |
| 15:37.04 | florian | cards who don't need a reset are better ;-) |
| 15:37.59 | florian | s/who/which |
| 15:38.27 | moray | cmarqu_werk/florian: still, having labelled 'reset' and 'power down' buttons should be understandable? |
| 15:39.34 | cmarqu_werk | Yup. If we only have two or three controls or so, we can have regular buttons for them |
| 15:39.55 | *** join/#gpe prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9) |
| 15:56.31 | florian | this looks better: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.31545.png |
| 16:03.51 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Yup. I'd even move the status information right of the icon (maybe don't even say "Status:" there), but that's just me. |
| 16:06.03 | florian | cmarqu_werk: i think this is at least an option if i need more space. |
| 16:06.17 | cmarqu_werk | Yeah. |
| 16:26.37 | cmarqu_werk | BBL |
| 16:33.17 | *** join/#gpe ComMan (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9) |
| 16:45.35 | florian | bbl |
| 16:53.40 | *** join/#gpe chrisime (~chrisime@p508025D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:55.30 | mallum | hey chrisime |
| 17:02.33 | chrisime | hoi |
| 17:05.59 | mallum | chrisime: you have X 4.3 right ? |
| 17:06.08 | mallum | ( on desktop ) |
| 17:20.28 | chrisime | mallum, yes |
| 17:20.49 | chrisime | i'm quite tired today :( |
| 17:21.04 | chrisime | i wasn't able to learn much for the exam on SAT :(( |
| 17:23.48 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 17:24.08 | mallum | chrisime: exams are for suckers |
| 17:25.01 | chrisime | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:25.09 | chrisime | mallum, i can't do anything about it |
| 17:26.39 | mallum | chrisime: yeah , just do your best thats all you can do :-) |
| 17:26.47 | mallum | chrisime: dont let em stress you out too much |
| 17:29.29 | dneuer | chrisime: what exams? |
| 17:46.24 | chrisime | dneuer, discrete maths |
| 17:46.30 | chrisime | mallum, mhm |
| 17:49.42 | mallum | chrisime: wanna try http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/grandr_applet-0.2.tar.gz ? |
| 17:54.54 | chrisime | aaah |
| 17:55.09 | chrisime | i saw the announce mail at gnome-announce |
| 17:56.02 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-201-60-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 17:58.23 | chrisime | mallum, uhm, i have to install it in /usr right? |
| 17:59.11 | dc_ | evening guys. |
| 18:00.08 | chrisime | what happened? |
| 18:00.24 | mallum | chrisime: not sure, guess it depends if the panel checks /usr/local or not |
| 18:00.34 | dc_ | ripped about a quarter of the underide off in a door. |
| 18:00.46 | dc_ | and I can't feel in that spot anymore :/ |
| 18:00.57 | mallum | chrisime: anyway it installs 2 files , so I dont think it will fuck your system |
| 18:01.24 | chrisime | ok |
| 18:01.39 | mallum | dc_: thwackkkk k k kk k kk kk kk ! |
| 18:01.57 | dc_ | mallum: yes ;{ |
| 18:01.57 | chrisime | dc_, ouch. my fingers were once in a car door ;) |
| 18:01.59 | chrisime | that hurt |
| 18:02.08 | chrisime | the door was totally closed |
| 18:02.09 | dc_ | chrisime: eek, yeah |
| 18:02.17 | mallum | I once cut the end of my thumb off with a stanley knife :-)) |
| 18:02.24 | dc_ | ooh |
| 18:02.28 | chrisime | mallum, mine's bigger ;) |
| 18:02.53 | mallum | yeah I hit some vein and there was a lot of blood |
| 18:03.05 | chrisime | that's normal |
| 18:03.17 | mallum | thought Id totally cut my thumb off, ran round the classroom swearing |
| 18:04.00 | dc_ | no shit mallum |
| 18:04.02 | mallum | people thought I was joking around |
| 18:04.13 | dc_ | hah |
| 18:06.13 | mallum | jesus, the marines are teching iraqi kids hip hop lyrics |
| 18:06.23 | dc_ | omg. |
| 18:06.31 | chrisime | nice toy mallum(applet) |
| 18:06.45 | mallum | chrisime: did it work ok for you ? |
| 18:06.50 | nelson | Is there a way to prompt for the root password before running a program? |
| 18:06.59 | nelson | doesn't gpe-conf do that for some of its programs? |
| 18:07.07 | mallum | nelson: gpe-su ? |
| 18:09.17 | mallum | dc_: I got this radeon pci card, so in theory my shuttle could power 5 monitors :-) |
| 18:09.25 | dc_ | mallum: woah |
| 18:09.35 | dc_ | mallum: what card? |
| 18:09.45 | mallum | dc_: just a cheap radeon 7000 pci |
| 18:10.00 | mallum | dc_: X dont seem to like 2 radeons though :( |
| 18:10.08 | dc_ | and then you have vga on mb, and agp? |
| 18:10.11 | dc_ | ah how sad... |
| 18:10.12 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:10.25 | dc_ | evening pb_ |
| 18:10.31 | pb_ | dc_: yo |
| 18:10.54 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@217.85.177.56) |
| 18:11.00 | dc_ | hey florian |
| 18:11.23 | florian | dc_: hi.. |
| 18:12.32 | *** join/#gpe jg (~jg@dhcp-r25.crl.dec.com) |
| 18:12.33 | florian | dc_: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.31545.png |
| 18:12.47 | pb_ | jg: afternoon |
| 18:13.15 | florian | dc_: any idea about these pcmcia control icons? (insert,eject,euspend,resume,reset) |
| 18:13.26 | florian | lunch... brb |
| 18:14.37 | chrisime | mallum, it does |
| 18:14.42 | dc_ | florian: um well, I'm sure there are some icons that fit, but to have an icon for that many options is hard sometimes |
| 18:16.42 | mallum | chrisime: cool, what card you have ? |
| 18:19.04 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:19.24 | chrisime | mallum, ibook, radeon 7500 |
| 18:19.43 | mallum | chrisime: ah cool |
| 18:19.45 | pb_ | hm, X server crashed there. |
| 18:20.16 | nelson | mallum: tnx, I'll look into it. |
| 18:27.17 | chrisime | mallum, works nicely. bedtime (it's just 20.30 *sigh*) |
| 18:27.50 | dc_ | chrisime: don't goto be _too_ early |
| 18:27.53 | mallum | chrisime: excellent |
| 18:27.59 | chrisime | dc_, why |
| 18:28.02 | chrisime | i'm tired |
| 18:28.11 | chrisime | i need to be at shape tomorrow :) |
| 18:28.17 | dc_ | you might forget to wake up... |
| 18:28.27 | dc_ | pb_: was that your super new .3 server aswell? |
| 18:28.37 | pb_ | dc_: no, I haven't managed to make 4.3 work at all on this machine yet. |
| 18:29.04 | pb_ | well, actually, I haven't tried 4.3 at all to be honest. I tried a build from CVS the other day, and that just locked the machine when the X server initialized, so I went back to 4.2.1 for the time being. |
| 18:29.11 | pb_ | I might try to get 4.3 going on my ibook first. |
| 18:29.25 | dc_ | ah cool |
| 18:30.05 | pb_ | well, I keep hoping that overfiend will package 4.3 in unstable and all my prayers will be answered. But I suspect that's in vain. |
| 18:30.32 | nelson | any clues on how to run gpe-su? |
| 18:30.40 | nelson | it seems to be capturing the stdout of the command. |
| 18:30.54 | pb_ | nelson: ah, er, oh dear. |
| 18:30.55 | nelson | not a useful thing if the command runs kismet-curses! |
| 18:30.55 | chrisime | dc_, forget? |
| 18:31.30 | pb_ | nelson: it probably ought to have a separate mode for that. I think it's capturing output from su so it can figure out if you got the password wrong. |
| 18:32.23 | nelson | pb_: ahhhh. Oh well, I'll just log in as root. |
| 18:32.51 | mallum | pb_: http://penguinppc.org/~daniels/README |
| 18:33.13 | pb_ | mallum: thanks |
| 18:33.18 | chrisime | well, night guys. before i hit the keyboard with my head... |
| 18:33.26 | pb_ | chrisime: certainly wouldn't want that. |
| 18:33.28 | mallum | chrisime: gnight + get well soon |
| 18:33.32 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@62.60.120.171) |
| 18:33.34 | chrisime | thx |
| 18:33.36 | chrisime | cya |
| 18:37.31 | pb_ | well, maybe my ire should be directed at libatk really. |
| 18:37.43 | pb_ | regardless, one or both of these are teh suck. |
| 18:40.56 | florian | re |
| 18:43.46 | mallum | has anyone seen/tryed rh9 ? |
| 18:45.20 | jg | pb_: afternoon... |
| 18:45.33 | florian | did jamey build a new ipkg package today? |
| 18:45.42 | pb_ | florian: yep |
| 18:45.46 | pb_ | 0.99.67 I think |
| 18:45.56 | florian | great... |
| 18:46.16 | pb_ | jg: did you hear whether bdale had a final yes or no on his travel plans, out of interest? |
| 18:47.16 | dneuer | jg: hey |
| 19:03.33 | dc__ | ibot change 1794.95 to gbp |
| 19:03.40 | dc__ | ibot change 1794.95 usd to gbp |
| 19:05.00 | florian | i have ipkg 0.99.66 installed. ipkg update+upgrade doesn't try to install a new one |
| 19:08.22 | pb_ | dc__: ha, what are you planning to buy now? |
| 19:08.28 | pb_ | florian: hell. |
| 19:10.03 | florian | pb_: but according ipkgfind it is in the feed |
| 19:10.04 | dc__ | pb_: a new powerbook :} |
| 19:10.21 | pb_ | dc__: aha, cool. |
| 19:10.34 | dc__ | pb_: I'll need to work alot during the summer though, but it'll be cool to have when I do my a-levels. |
| 19:10.44 | dc__ | as the iBook isn't wholey mine. |
| 19:11.12 | pb_ | dc__: not to mention being not wholly intact :-} |
| 19:11.21 | dc__ | omg, it's £1,395.89 here. |
| 19:11.37 | pb_ | hm, that's interesting. Apple are normally pretty consistent with their pricing, I think. |
| 19:11.41 | *** join/#gpe paul ([j0s2mwnZA@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 19:11.49 | pb_ | hi paul |
| 19:11.56 | florian | paul: hello |
| 19:12.17 | paul | hiya florian/pb |
| 19:13.03 | *** join/#gpe dc___ (~dc@modem-62-44-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 19:13.18 | dc___ | but in the US it's only 1,146.50, and comes with a free printer, 512 of memory and an airport extreme card. |
| 19:14.43 | pb_ | hah, sounds like the US deal is the one to go for then. |
| 19:14.48 | pb_ | best book your flight. |
| 19:15.06 | dc___ | hehe, yep. |
| 19:15.10 | mallum | dc___: no doubt the printer will run out of ink after printing 5 pages and then cost you 100$ for a new cartridge ;-) |
| 19:15.24 | dc___ | mallum: no doubt :} |
| 19:15.48 | mallum | dc__: http://www.1001winampskins.com/skin_details.html?skin_id=2728 |
| 19:16.30 | paul | florian: want to mail your address and i'll send your coins on? :) |
| 19:17.03 | florian | paul: ehh... a deal with petra?! |
| 19:17.09 | dc___ | mallum: very slick indeed :) |
| 19:17.30 | paul | florian: werent you asking for irish coins? |
| 19:17.48 | pb_ | paul: wasn't that colin? |
| 19:18.08 | paul | i thought it was florian, but i could be wrong :) (i've an awful memory) |
| 19:18.14 | mallum | dc___: Id go for something like this : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3409419596 |
| 19:18.18 | pb_ | ah, heh. |
| 19:18.19 | florian | paul: i think this was nils, i think nils and petra collect coins... or colin |
| 19:18.29 | mallum | dc___: rather than a tibook III |
| 19:19.14 | paul | florian: ah colin so! :) |
| 19:19.43 | dc___ | mallum: I can't quite afford the 17" :/ |
| 19:20.11 | paul | pb_: get a chance to look at that patch? :) |
| 19:20.19 | florian | mallum: i want a matchbox theme in this style... :-) |
| 19:20.30 | pb_ | paul: ah, er, not yet. hopefully later this evening. |
| 19:20.34 | paul | ah k |
| 19:20.36 | dc___ | mallum: ah that's 15.2 |
| 19:21.05 | dc___ | oh wow, they have a pcmcia, I wonder if the 12" does aswell |
| 19:21.44 | mallum | florian: yeah I thought about that, Im not sure if it'd work though :( |
| 19:22.00 | dc___ | oh dear, a 1x dvd-r |
| 19:22.54 | dc___ | mallum: you might aswell buy that one from apple the same price |
| 19:23.19 | mallum | dc___: they still selling them ? |
| 19:23.32 | dc___ | mallum: the 15.2"? |
| 19:23.38 | dc___ | http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/924/wo/Ap0Tt1Vvu11K1L4diw/0.3.0.3.27.33.0.0.1.0.3.1.1.0?121,73 |
| 19:23.41 | florian | mallum: would be quite much of work... |
| 19:23.47 | dc___ | mallum: they're very new |
| 19:24.28 | pb_ | dc___: just installed the 4.3 X server on my ibook from the ds repository. It seems to be mostly working, though the display is a bit screwed up for some reason, going to try to fix that now. |
| 19:24.53 | dc___ | pb_: ah right.. |
| 19:25.02 | dc___ | hrm wow, new battery for iBook is £100 |
| 19:25.37 | pb_ | yeah, batteries tend to be expensive. |
| 19:25.56 | pb_ | battery technology doesn't get better at the same rate as electronics :-} |
| 19:26.09 | dc___ | heh |
| 19:26.21 | dc___ | hrm, and 15.2" doesn't come with inbuild bluetooth |
| 19:26.23 | dc___ | how strange. |
| 19:26.32 | dc___ | all the more reasons the get the 12", heh. |
| 19:26.34 | paul | pb_/dc: what about the gpe-irc patch? havnt heard anything. |
| 19:26.59 | pb_ | paul: I was hoping dc and pigeon would deal with that. gpe-irc not really one of my core competencies. |
| 19:27.11 | paul | dc? :) |
| 19:27.26 | paul | i havnt heard from pigeon. been keeping an eye out for him, but havnt seen him on irc. |
| 19:27.30 | paul | ibot: seen pigeon? |
| 19:27.31 | | pigeon is currently on #gpe (2d 9h 43m 21s) #handhelds.org (2d 9h 43m 21s) |
| 19:27.42 | paul | pigeon? |
| 19:27.42 | dc___ | paul: sorry, I'll do it this weekend if I get time |
| 19:28.27 | mallum | dc___: ah didn't realise they were still selling them ... |
| 19:28.29 | dc___ | paul: but umm, if it has been tested and is all sensible I have no problem with you commiting it. |
| 19:28.54 | pb_ | I think paul's patch is definitely an improvement over the old code, so I guess it gets my vote also. |
| 19:29.00 | paul | dc___: i can do that. if yourself,pb,pigeon are fine with it. |
| 19:29.11 | pb_ | sure, no objection from me. |
| 19:29.34 | dc___ | paul: I don't think we'll hear from pigeon too soon either |
| 19:29.39 | paul | pb_: well it doesnt crash :) (and i kludged a fix for another bug - direct messages - though you cant reply to them cause gpe-irc doesnt support it). |
| 19:29.42 | dc___ | he'll be fine |
| 19:29.55 | dc___ | right |
| 19:29.58 | dc___ | hrm |
| 19:30.01 | dc___ | on another note. |
| 19:30.12 | paul | dc___: k, i'll commit that later on so. |
| 19:30.20 | dc___ | anyone have personal suggestions for a new AP. |
| 19:30.45 | dc___ | I'm looking at the airport extreme, but it's a tad pricey |
| 19:30.50 | pb_ | dc___: I've been pretty happy with both the APs I have. one netgear and one avaya, I think. |
| 19:30.59 | paul | dc___: most AP's are of 2 types i gather. (both little ARMv7 boards). |
| 19:31.03 | pb_ | oh, you want 802.11g? |
| 19:31.25 | dc___ | it would be nice. |
| 19:31.52 | dc___ | I might as well shell out the extra now I'm buying a new one. |
| 19:31.52 | florian | quite expensive at the moment... |
| 19:31.53 | pb_ | I think the airport extreme is probably the best game in town for that at the moment. 802.11g hasn't actually been ratified yet, so all that stuff is still a bit up in the air. |
| 19:33.08 | pb_ | dc___: well, an 802.11b AP is only 60ish, so you could probably afford to throw it away after six months if you wanted to trade up to 54Mbps. |
| 19:33.19 | florian | oh, this ipkg binary is large... |
| 19:35.54 | pb_ | florian: strip? |
| 19:36.31 | florian | pb_: tried this 20 seconds before... now it is about 90% smaller |
| 19:36.43 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-160-53-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 19:36.43 | pb_ | heh |
| 19:37.25 | dc__ | april 17, satellite comes! |
| 19:38.03 | pb_ | dc__: at last! |
| 19:38.38 | dc__ | it has, acually, officially been ordered today. |
| 19:39.09 | dc__ | now all we can do is hope they come sometime by the 17th to instal it. |
| 19:40.06 | pb_ | fingers crossed then. |
| 19:40.40 | dc__ | yup |
| 19:40.58 | dc__ | but I need to order this base station, as the server will be in the main house. |
| 19:41.02 | dc__ | so... |
| 19:41.07 | pb_ | ah right |
| 19:41.20 | moray | did people planning on going to GUADEC see http://www.guadec.org/accommodation.html ? I've hopefully booked myself into that |
| 19:41.46 | pb_ | ah no, I hadn't done anything about GUADEC at all yet. I should get my finger out and book something. |
| 19:42.14 | pb_ | dc__: middle of June. |
| 19:42.22 | moray | I still need to do something about flights anyway - assuming I get that accommodation, I should fly over on Monday morning |
| 19:42.45 | pb_ | yeah, flights should be easy enough with Ryanair. |
| 19:42.50 | moray | indeed. |
| 19:42.58 | paul | who's going to guadec? |
| 19:43.03 | pb_ | me :-) |
| 19:43.04 | moray | I just need to decide how early I can face / how early is practical ;) |
| 19:43.14 | dc__ | hum |
| 19:43.16 | paul | pb_: see ya there so :) |
| 19:43.21 | pb_ | paul: right! |
| 19:43.21 | paul | dc__: you going? |
| 19:43.21 | moray | paul: (me) |
| 19:44.03 | pb_ | ah, is that when your exams happen? |
| 19:44.28 | dc__ | around then |
| 19:44.36 | *** join/#gpe HET2 (~diman@chello080110105196.509.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 19:44.37 | pb_ | I guess it'd be bad form to miss those. |
| 19:44.41 | moray | dc__: you haven't been told your exam dates yet? |
| 19:44.42 | dc__ | kind of. |
| 19:44.58 | dc__ | I have them somewhere.... |
| 19:44.58 | dc__ | some little piece of paper. |
| 19:44.58 | dc__ | :\ |
| 19:45.22 | pb_ | ha. |
| 19:46.03 | moray | well, apparently the Trinity College accommodation is only available for another day or two (and may be sold out first), or else I wouldn't have been bothering to organise myself yet really |
| 19:50.51 | pb_ | dc___: right, Xserver seems to be working well now. Option "UseFBDev" is what I always forget. |
| 19:50.59 | dc__ | pb_: ah :) |
| 19:51.09 | dc__ | I'll make sure I remember, thanks |
| 19:51.39 | pb_ | dc__: every time I have installed X on this machine so far I have had to spend ages debugging this stupid problem until I remember. Luckily this time it only took me about half an hour, as opposed to something like six hours last time. |
| 19:51.53 | dc__ | ahh, hehe. |
| 19:52.17 | pb_ | so, hm, maybe I feel brave enough now to upgrade my desktop as well. |
| 19:52.18 | dc__ | oh, netgear WG602 looks fun |
| 19:52.24 | dc__ | pb_: ! |
| 19:52.25 | pb_ | what's one of those? |
| 19:52.30 | dc__ | pb_: you can do it. |
| 19:52.51 | pb_ | ah, 802.11g. yeah, looks cool. |
| 19:53.10 | dc__ | indeed, not bad price either |
| 19:53.17 | pb_ | yep. |
| 19:53.38 | dc__ | oh dear.. |
| 19:53.48 | pb_ | dc__: ? |
| 19:53.50 | dc__ | does it look like it still does b? |
| 19:54.09 | pb_ | mmm, I was fairly sure they all do. |
| 19:54.12 | pb_ | lemme look |
| 19:54.20 | dc__ | Works with both IEEE 802.11b + draft 802.11g (both 2.4 GHz) |
| 19:54.30 | pb_ | ah, that would be the clue. |
| 19:54.32 | dc__ | it's that silly comparison chart of their that confused me |
| 19:54.38 | pb_ | heh |
| 19:55.03 | dc__ | but, not antena port. |
| 19:55.05 | pb_ | oh, I see, yeah. |
| 19:55.20 | pb_ | I guess they were worried that simple-minded customers would be confused if they put a tick in both columns. |
| 19:55.52 | pb_ | you may well not need an antenna port anyway. |
| 19:56.05 | pb_ | though, it occurs to me that 802.11g has much reduced range compared to 802.11b, so you might have issues there. |
| 19:56.15 | dc__ | well, the 'well' is what worries me. |
| 19:56.23 | pb_ | yeah, I can see that. |
| 19:56.35 | pb_ | just took a while for my thought process to catch up. |
| 19:56.53 | dc__ | currently my b airport goes through two brick walls. |
| 19:57.01 | dc__ | and is usable. |
| 19:57.19 | dc__ | hrm... |
| 19:57.21 | dc__ | bbl. |
| 19:57.50 | florian | new ipkg is not really good... it selects the wrong architecture to install |
| 19:58.01 | pb_ | florian: I think a newer one is on the way. |
| 19:58.03 | pb_ | 0.99.68 |
| 19:58.16 | pb_ | <jamey> cmarqu, u19809: ipkg 0.99.68 seems to work better on ipaqsa, Packages file is being updated |
| 19:58.37 | florian | ah, cool... where? |
| 19:58.54 | florian | or should i ask when? |
| 19:59.53 | cmarqu | florian: I can tell you when it's ready. |
| 20:00.10 | florian | cmarqu: great, thanks |
| 20:01.56 | *** join/#gpe ComMan (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9) |
| 20:03.02 | cmarqu | florian: Go! |
| 20:03.24 | florian | ComMan: ahhh... great |
| 20:03.48 | prpplague | florian: ? |
| 20:05.24 | florian | prpplague: sorry... just a misusage of the nick completion |
| 20:05.47 | florian | cmarqu: ahhh... great :-) |
| 20:07.23 | prpplague | florian: ahhh... ok :-) ,lol |
| 20:07.43 | florian | cmarqu: unstable feed? |
| 20:08.40 | cmarqu | florian: Yes. |
| 20:09.28 | florian | cmarqu: ok, then i'll have to wait until it's updated |
| 20:10.05 | cmarqu | florian: It should be updated now, that's why I said it. |
| 20:12.19 | cmarqu | http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ipkg_0.99.68_arm.ipk |
| 20:18.34 | florian | cmarqu: thanks |
| 20:20.31 | *** join/#gpe jsmanrique (jsmanrique@cmr-213-141-53-236.telecable.es) |
| 20:20.43 | jsmanrique | hello |
| 20:21.00 | jsmanrique | mallum: I've compiled xkbd 0.8.1 for my PC |
| 20:21.07 | jsmanrique | mallum: how do I run it? |
| 20:22.22 | jsmanrique | mallum: I get segmentation fault allways |
| 20:24.10 | jsmanrique | mallum: doing xkbd -v or xkbd -h, it works :-) |
| 20:24.51 | mallum | jsmanrique: 0.8.1 is ancient |
| 20:25.27 | mallum | jsmanrique: grab a newer one via http://handhelds.org/~mallum/ |
| 20:25.43 | jsmanrique | mallum: I get it there... I think.. |
| 20:26.01 | mallum | 0.8.10 is newest |
| 20:26.14 | jsmanrique | mallum: sorry |
| 20:26.20 | jsmanrique | mallum: it is 0.8.10 :-) |
| 20:26.59 | mallum | jsmanrique: wierd, what args did you pass to configure ? |
| 20:27.18 | paul | pb_: quick question, is it gpe-login that does the screen locking? and if so, would you be amienable to a patch to have gpe-ownerinfo display its info on the screen-lock? |
| 20:27.20 | jsmanrique | mallum: first time, none.. but it didn't compile |
| 20:27.29 | mallum | jsmanrique: do a ./configure --enable-xft --enable-xpm && make clean && make |
| 20:27.29 | jsmanrique | mallum: second time, --enable-xft |
| 20:28.04 | jsmanrique | mallum: ok, here we go |
| 20:28.25 | mallum | jsmanrique: did you make install ? |
| 20:29.12 | jsmanrique | mallum: doing it again now |
| 20:29.39 | jsmanrique | mallum: great, it is working now |
| 20:30.10 | mallum | jsmanrique: cool :-) |
| 20:30.48 | mallum | jsmanrique: I'll see why it didn't work with out them switches |
| 20:30.52 | florian | INTERNAL ERROR: architecture ipaqpxa for pkg kernel-modules is unsupported. |
| 20:31.44 | florian | ahh.. i'm stupid |
| 20:31.48 | jsmanrique | mallum: I'll see what can I do for a Spanish localization of it |
| 20:32.59 | mallum | jsmanrique: cool , cmarqu did the german one and I think paxanima the norwegian one |
| 20:33.21 | jsmanrique | mallum: where could I find them? |
| 20:33.32 | jsmanrique | mallum: in 0.8.10 only comes US and GB |
| 20:34.11 | mallum | jsmanrique: grab them via ipkgfind ? |
| 20:34.21 | jsmanrique | mallum: ok, I'll see |
| 20:34.30 | mallum | jsmanrique: also see http://www.uni-ulm.de/~s_smasch/X11/keysyms.txt for the X names of various extended wierd looking foreign chars ;-) |
| 20:35.26 | cmarqu | jsmanrique: or use xkeycaps |
| 20:36.37 | jsmanrique | thanks |
| 20:36.37 | cmarqu | jsmanrique: http://handhelds.org/~cmarqu/xkbd-layout-de_0.07.tgz contains my control file and all that stuff which you could adapt |
| 20:38.29 | mallum | jsmanrique: I uploaded the de & no .xkbd files to hh.org:~/mallum/xkbd for you |
| 20:39.53 | jsmanrique | mallum: thanks |
| 20:40.08 | mallum | jsmanrique: there is a french layout here -> http://libxg.free.fr/point/point.htm , though Im not sure if it works |
| 20:41.08 | jsmanrique | mallum: should I copy these files to somewhere in my PC to make them work? |
| 20:41.22 | jsmanrique | jsmanrique@Coruscant:~/Desarrollo/xkbd$ xkbd -k no.qwerty.xkbd |
| 20:41.23 | jsmanrique | xkbd: failed loading image '/usr/share/xkbd/img/backspace.xpm' |
| 20:41.38 | florian | Installing kernel (2.4.19-rmk6-pxa1-hh9) to root... |
| 20:41.39 | florian | ERROR: Package kernel is not available from any configured src. |
| 20:42.28 | mallum | jsmanrique: just edit the files and make the img's point at /usr/local/share/xkbd rather than /usr/share |
| 20:42.45 | jsmanrique | mallum: ok |
| 20:46.40 | cmarqu | florian: Yeah, I have the same problem :/ |
| 20:55.51 | jsmanrique | pb_: a friend of mine has bought a h3900 |
| 20:56.32 | jsmanrique | pb_: is the process to install Linux on it the same than h3600 (but using the right bootblaster and bootloader and boot.jffs2 file)? |
| 20:56.41 | pb_ | paul: yeah, gpe-login does locking; yeah, gpe-ownerinfo would be cool there. |
| 20:56.51 | pb_ | jsmanrique: yep. |
| 20:56.53 | pb_ | ibot, h3900? |
| 20:56.57 | | rumour has it, h3900 is a model of iPAQ featuring the 400MHz Intel XScale processor, 64MB of RAM, and either 32MB or 48MB of Flash ROM (on 395x and 397x respectively). Alpha-quality linux support is available, see http://handhelds.org/projects/h3900.html, or http://www.handhelds.org/pipermail/ipaq/2002-November/016148.html, or http://handhelds.org/~pb/3900/ |
| 20:56.57 | paul | pb_: i'll see what i can do |
| 20:57.15 | pb_ | jsmanrique: might still be some useful info at that last url, not sure. but familiar 0.7-pre should work out of the box on h3900 given right bootldr and bootblaster. |
| 20:57.19 | pb_ | bbl |
| 20:59.16 | jsmanrique | pb_: thanks |
| 21:02.30 | florian | ohoh... ipkg installed /booz/zImage instead of a link |
| 21:03.50 | jsmanrique | pb_: once installed.. are all packages compatible (3600-3900) or there are different feeds for each model (3600-3900) ??? |
| 21:04.44 | cmarqu | jsmanrique: No need to worry about the model (in theory, ipkg still seems to have some problems with it) |
| 21:04.56 | jsmanrique | cmarqu: hmm |
| 21:06.28 | florian | cmarqu: seems like the packages are really installed before the error message |
| 21:07.28 | cmarqu | florian: Ah. Yes, it at least downloads them. Does it also run the postinst though? |
| 21:07.35 | cmarqu | I don't really trust it... |
| 21:08.58 | florian | me too, but i'll try... |
| 21:14.09 | paul | btw, does anyone know where ipaq-sleep lives in cvs? |
| 21:15.00 | cmarqu | gpe/base/ipaq-sleep |
| 21:17.58 | paul | aha... |
| 21:18.00 | paul | doh. |
| 21:18.07 | paul | i was looking under familiar. :) |
| 21:21.59 | florian | cmarqu: it does, i get messages about unresolved symbols from the depmod in postinst |
| 21:22.28 | cmarqu | florian: Ah, nice proof :) |
| 21:22.44 | paul | hmmm... |
| 21:22.59 | PaxAnima | my colourfull, and smaller, pscalc2 is soon to be found in the unstable feed.. |
| 21:23.02 | florian | what is in ide-nondisk-modules? ide generic support? |
| 21:23.04 | paul | #ifdef DEBUG\n<whitespace>if (debug). |
| 21:23.08 | paul | eek. |
| 21:23.28 | florian | PaxAnima: cool... |
| 21:23.36 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: BTW, the buttons look really cool now. |
| 21:24.30 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: but I restored the bevels for the buttons, cause I had problems with the togglebuttons :/ |
| 21:25.32 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: do you have a current scap? |
| 21:25.43 | PaxAnima | soon.. will install it now and test it |
| 21:27.11 | PaxAnima | Xipaq has gone into uninterruptible sleep :/ |
| 21:28.02 | PaxAnima | does that mean I have to reboot the ipaq? |
| 21:37.52 | *** join/#gpe dc___ (~dc@modem-177-63-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 21:39.37 | mallum | florian: are you using png's or svg's for your gorilla buttons ? |
| 21:39.46 | florian | mallum: png |
| 21:40.47 | mallum | florian: yeah the svg ones have a lot of deps, and I think will be slow as lots of fp in libart |
| 21:41.51 | florian | ieeee! my screen is rotated... and ts is dead :-( |
| 21:44.17 | florian | shit! this is a pxa kernel! |
| 21:46.23 | florian | is there a way to replace the kernel image in a jffs? |
| 21:48.27 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.13931.png |
| 21:48.57 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: nice look |
| 21:49.11 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: Oh, nicer than before even I'd say. |
| 21:50.22 | florian | PaxAnima: yes, really cool! |
| 21:51.01 | PaxAnima | thanks ;) |
| 21:51.22 | PaxAnima | not sure if it works 100%, but it should... |
| 21:51.44 | cmarqu | Or, bold results? |
| 21:51.55 | PaxAnima | hmm.. maybe? |
| 21:52.14 | PaxAnima | shouldn't be too much work using GtkTextTags.. |
| 21:53.14 | florian | is there a way to transfer files to the ipaq using the serial cable? |
| 21:53.35 | PaxAnima | x/ymodem? |
| 21:53.41 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: Depending on the font, it might help readability. |
| 21:53.45 | moray | use rz on the ipaq and send through your serial terminal emulator |
| 21:53.57 | moray | (etc.) |
| 21:54.29 | moray | (or use sz manually at the other end) |
| 21:54.30 | florian | ok, i'm happy and have rz installed :-) |
| 21:54.38 | florian | mallum: thanks! |
| 21:56.21 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: could try bold, and left justification for the result... |
| 21:56.46 | PaxAnima | left =right |
| 21:56.46 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: Indeed. |
| 21:57.29 | cmarqu | Oh, and give it a remote control mode while you are at it. |
| 21:58.09 | PaxAnima | :)= |
| 22:00.01 | PaxAnima | and embed a small video player, so you can watch movies while calculating stuff.. ;) |
| 22:00.07 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-32-57-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 22:00.43 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: Yes, as the list background of course. |
| 22:00.58 | PaxAnima | of course.. |
| 22:02.24 | dc__ | hrm |
| 22:02.39 | dc__ | my iBook's cdrom drive is in a vague working state :/ |
| 22:09.15 | dc__ | pb_: with your benh source you gave me... |
| 22:09.21 | dc__ | pb_: ext3 works for you right? |
| 22:11.22 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: it looks good.... I'll make a new ipkg... |
| 22:11.22 | dc__ | florian: wow, scap is nice :) |
| 22:11.32 | dc__ | PaxAnima: same for psCalc :) |
| 22:11.56 | PaxAnima | ;) |
| 22:12.13 | PaxAnima | another reason for doing another ipkg: I built it with -g :/ |
| 22:13.16 | cmarqu | Maybe they should go to a GpeScreenshots page, and every once in a while selected ones be moved to the static GPE screenshots pages. |
| 22:15.59 | jsmanrique | another GPE user! |
| 22:16.14 | florian | f... now i have the correct kernel, but no accu loading, no touchscreen and no light :-/ |
| 22:16.19 | jsmanrique | I have sold my h3600 to a friend a pair of weeks ago (with GPE of course) |
| 22:16.29 | jsmanrique | now, he is using it every night |
| 22:16.35 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.7249.png <--- not it's starting to look like a real calculator ;) |
| 22:16.37 | jsmanrique | with wireless |
| 22:16.55 | jsmanrique | to chat with us in our LUG's channel |
| 22:17.00 | jsmanrique | :-D |
| 22:17.20 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@62.60.119.99) |
| 22:17.33 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: yes |
| 22:17.57 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: you have read my mind about how it should look like (input/output for results) |
| 22:18.00 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: Really nice. Could you even put the result on the same line as the inputs to save space? |
| 22:18.13 | jsmanrique | cmarqu: I prefer it this way |
| 22:18.19 | jsmanrique | cmarqu: in different line |
| 22:18.40 | jsmanrique | cmarqu: two fo my hp calculators do it that way |
| 22:18.50 | jsmanrique | cmarqu: in Alg mode |
| 22:18.57 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: it's the common way to display it... my old casio has it that wayt |
| 22:18.59 | cmarqu | Okay. They have probably researched usability. |
| 22:19.26 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: I should use Alg instead of Infix |
| 22:19.45 | cmarqu | Or maybe they were just not sure about how to conditionally insert line breaks if the input gets long. |
| 22:20.16 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: in my HP calculators, to make that difference (infix vs rpn) they use Alg or RPN mode |
| 22:20.22 | PaxAnima | ah.. |
| 22:20.29 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: of course, I prefer RPN mode as default |
| 22:20.56 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: I am a long time HP calculators user I think |
| 22:20.59 | PaxAnima | "Alg" is much shorter as well... and more correct.. I used "infix", as it was the best word to describe it when I first created it.. |
| 22:21.04 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: to be really nitpicky: after "Infix" (or "Alg"), there should be a little bit more space. |
| 22:21.46 | PaxAnima | cmarqu: yes.. I had to use my "shrink" style to make space for the memory icon.. but I guess I'll get that space when using "Alg" |
| 22:22.18 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: could I suggest a bit more? (please don't hate me) |
| 22:22.26 | PaxAnima | jsmanrique: ;) |
| 22:22.32 | PaxAnima | I'm open for suggestions |
| 22:22.49 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: from my long use of HP calculators ... :-D |
| 22:23.58 | *** join/#gpe nike (~dctanner@modem-84-54-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 22:24.01 | jsmanrique | well, I would change the top bar for a state info bar, where it would writen how are you working ( Alg - 5 - Dec) i.e. and some buttons: Copy/Paste/Config/Mem |
| 22:24.13 | nike | wtf. |
| 22:24.28 | dc_ibook | dunno what happened there. |
| 22:24.48 | dc_ibook | pb_: feel like some iBook font and kernel debugging ;)? |
| 22:25.03 | jsmanrique | with config button, the input/output window could change to a form where those things could be changed (alg vs rpn, decimals, base,...) |
| 22:26.05 | PaxAnima | jsmanrique: I'll write it down in a todo and have a look at it some time later |
| 22:26.42 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: right, it was a suggestion for the future.. of course |
| 22:27.22 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: I could elaborate it a bit more.. as I've done for my SDA project, so perhaps, we could mix my ideas with your code and Parisse's code |
| 22:28.15 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-84-54-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 22:28.49 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: Parisse's code is giac/xcas |
| 22:28.52 | florian | h3600_apm_get_power_status: unable to access battery information |
| 22:28.53 | PaxAnima | ah |
| 22:29.34 | PaxAnima | hmm... maybe give the RPN mode a little facelift as well... |
| 22:29.50 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique/en/giac.html |
| 22:30.01 | cmarqu | florian: shake hands. I get that too. |
| 22:30.15 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: for RPN, only the results mind, so keep them on the right |
| 22:30.24 | cmarqu | florian: I'll just wait for pre8. |
| 22:30.59 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: but it's better to see his page: http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/giac.html |
| 22:31.51 | PaxAnima | jsmanrique: maybe have the stack bold and left justified as the result in Alg mode? |
| 22:32.48 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: yes, that is |
| 22:32.49 | florian | cmarqu: more or less... i don't know why the touchscreen and power management doesn't work |
| 22:33.08 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: just show the results.. like they do in Alg mode |
| 22:33.24 | florian | pb_: which module package is responsible for touchscreen and power? |
| 22:33.33 | pb_ | florian: on h3800? h3600-asic.o |
| 22:33.46 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: maybe you could try a hp48 or hp49 emulator to see how they work |
| 22:33.55 | pb_ | florian: oh, that's with a _ not a - |
| 22:33.55 | spung | pb_: 1 hour and 28 minutes |
| 22:34.05 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: like x48 or Saturn |
| 22:34.10 | florian | pb_: i think this one i have... let me look |
| 22:34.12 | pb_ | spung: thanks for the timecheck. for your records, I was at the pub that time. |
| 22:34.26 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=4382 |
| 22:35.13 | pb_ | florian: it's in the h3800-modules package I think. |
| 22:35.29 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: http://www.hpcalc.org/details.php?id=3700 |
| 22:35.32 | pb_ | dc_ibook: always. |
| 22:35.48 | PaxAnima | jsmanrique: never owned, or used, a HP before.. at least not a RPN one.. |
| 22:35.57 | dc_ibook | pb_: :D |
| 22:35.58 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: :-D |
| 22:36.06 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: you should :-) |
| 22:36.09 | pb_ | dc_ibook: on ext3, er, I think so, let me check. |
| 22:36.14 | florian | pb_: ah, ok i see... this one is missing |
| 22:36.21 | dc_ibook | pb_: right, first problem is my japanese fonts :} |
| 22:36.25 | dc_ibook | pb_: hehe |
| 22:36.31 | pb_ | dc_ibook: yeah, / is ext3 on my ibook. |
| 22:36.39 | cmarqu | spung: We have a time tracker for such purposes. |
| 22:36.42 | pb_ | so I guess it's a fairly safe bet it is working. |
| 22:36.46 | pb_ | florian: aha. |
| 22:36.54 | pb_ | dc_ibook: right, what seems to be the problem with the fonts? |
| 22:37.00 | dc_ibook | pb_: I've installed all the ones from unstable. and they're the same as on my desktop. I suspect it's my X server that's not rendering them correctly as they're not AA'd |
| 22:37.04 | PaxAnima | jsmanrique: added the changed stack layout... I'll build an ipkg with that later this week.. |
| 22:37.09 | dc_ibook | pb_: ext3 will be next :} |
| 22:37.13 | jsmanrique | PaxAnima: great |
| 22:37.14 | pb_ | dc_ibook: which packages are you using? |
| 22:37.21 | PaxAnima | time to get some sleep... night all |
| 22:37.23 | pb_ | (font packages, that is) |
| 22:37.24 | spung | cmarqu: :) |
| 22:37.34 | cmarqu | PaxAnima: Night |
| 22:37.51 | cmarqu | Which is a good idea. Night all. |
| 22:37.56 | dc_ibook | ngith |
| 22:37.57 | pb_ | night cmarqu |
| 22:37.59 | dc_ibook | cmarqu: |
| 22:38.22 | dc_ibook | I have ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10 installed. |
| 22:38.29 | dc_ibook | plus the mincho one |
| 22:38.30 | dc_ibook | and. |
| 22:38.44 | dc_ibook | xfonts-intl-japanese |
| 22:38.45 | jsmanrique | I have tried to compile some HP calculator emulators for Familiar.. |
| 22:38.46 | pb_ | oh dear, a new gpe-calendar bug! |
| 22:38.50 | jsmanrique | but poor results: |
| 22:38.53 | dc_ibook | and xfonts-a12k12 |
| 22:38.57 | jsmanrique | http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique/ipaq/ |
| 22:39.14 | pb_ | dc_ibook: okay, and you say those give the right glyphs, but not antialiased? |
| 22:39.20 | pb_ | let me try them on my desktop first of all. |
| 22:39.35 | dc_ibook | pb_: and ttf-kochi-* and ttf-xtt-wadalab and watanbe |
| 22:40.33 | dc_ibook | pb_: okay..well, I do get Kochi Gothic and Mincho in my list of avalible fonts, but they display nothing in the font selector, presumible because they jap only |
| 22:40.50 | pb_ | dc_ibook: well, I'm definitely getting AA on my desktop with gedit, using (I think) Kochi Gothic. |
| 22:40.57 | dc_ibook | :/ |
| 22:41.03 | pb_ | let me just check which fonts I actually have installed. |
| 22:41.06 | moray | dc_ibook: have a look with gucharmap if they're showing up there? |
| 22:41.43 | moray | (the ttf- Japanese stuff worked for me when I installed them recently) |
| 22:41.50 | pb_ | ha. |
| 22:42.10 | dc_ibook | heh |
| 22:42.16 | dc_ibook | I just get lots of little boxes. |
| 22:42.32 | pb_ | that can't be good. |
| 22:42.33 | dc_ibook | with letters in them, the sign that it's not displaying it. |
| 22:42.33 | moray | with gucharmap? (not gnome-character-map_ |
| 22:43.07 | dc_ibook | gucharmap will take quite some time to install :/ |
| 22:43.15 | *** join/#gpe pb__ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:43.22 | moray | well, gnome-character-map only does Latin characters I think? |
| 22:43.27 | dc_ibook | heh |
| 22:43.36 | dc_ibook | well. when I enable jap through gdm. |
| 22:43.38 | pb_ | ah, that would explain it. |
| 22:43.50 | dc_ibook | I get jap characters, but not aa |
| 22:43.54 | pb_ | dc_ibook: try loading a file containing Japanese characters in gedit. |
| 22:43.58 | moray | hm |
| 22:44.01 | pb_ | that's how I have been testing my fonts. |
| 22:44.13 | dc_ibook | and all the western characters are like monospace in bold size 20 |
| 22:44.18 | florian | ahhh... lights on! |
| 22:44.23 | pb_ | florian: great! |
| 22:44.32 | moray | if you can get gucharmap then you can check in it under Hirigana / Katakana / CJK Unified Ideographs |
| 22:44.41 | dc_ibook | pb_: I have, the jap is non aa, and the western is like super s p a c e d. |
| 22:44.46 | pb_ | dc_ibook: selecting japanese in GDM may have other bad effects, like selecting an EUC-JP encoding. |
| 22:44.48 | paul | dc_ibook: committed that gpe-irc patch |
| 22:45.06 | pb_ | dc_ibook: do the gedit thing in your normal locale, not a japanese one. |
| 22:45.13 | dc_ibook | I was. |
| 22:45.18 | pb_ | ah, hm. |
| 22:45.20 | moray | dc_ibook: are you using a UTF-8 IRC client? |
| 22:45.33 | dc_ibook | hrm, I have both EUC-JP and UTF-8 locales. |
| 22:45.39 | dc_ibook | but gdm only offers one. |
| 22:45.46 | pb_ | dc_ibook: you should destroy the EUC-JP locale, it is good for nothing. |
| 22:45.55 | dc_ibook | just doing so. |
| 22:46.02 | pb_ | or, well, that's not quite true, but I think it will only confuse matters at the moment. |
| 22:46.08 | dc_ibook | remove it from locales.gen and going locale-gen now |
| 22:46.18 | dc_ibook | s/remove/removed/ |
| 22:46.19 | pb_ | you might need to go into /usr/lib/locale and blow it away by hand. |
| 22:46.23 | dc_ibook | s/going/doing/ |
| 22:46.23 | florian | oh, the new xkbd is buggy... |
| 22:46.29 | moray | dc_ibook: ざぱズデ乕乘 |
| 22:46.56 | moray | (hm, my IRC client doesn't have the CJK ideographs, since I haven't restarted it since installing those packages) |
| 22:47.02 | moray | (it has the first four characters though) |
| 22:47.07 | dc_ibook | moray: hrm yes, my displays boxes. |
| 22:47.13 | pb_ | moray: what client are you using, out of interest? |
| 22:47.25 | dc_ibook | moray: although on startup xchar gtk2 declares it's utf-8 |
| 22:47.27 | moray | pb_: just xchat 2 |
| 22:47.35 | dc_ibook | pb_: rm locale-archive? |
| 22:47.40 | pb_ | dc_ibook: yeah |
| 22:47.46 | pb_ | dc_ibook: you'll have to rerun locale-gen after that. |
| 22:47.50 | dc_ibook | indeed. |
| 22:47.51 | moray | dc_ibook: well, you'll need the appropriate ttf-whatever stuff installed, then restart the program to spot them |
| 22:48.13 | pb_ | dc_ibook: be worth checking that all the expected fonts show up in fc-list as a first step. |
| 22:48.53 | pb_ | dc_ibook: if you're not getting any AA, and especially if you are experiencing other bad effects too, it sounds like it might be finding some unwanted bitmap fonts rather than the ttf ones. |
| 22:49.06 | moray | indeed |
| 22:49.51 | dc_ibook | right, they're there |
| 22:49.56 | pb_ | right |
| 22:50.02 | dc_ibook | Kochi Mincho:style=Regular |
| 22:50.36 | pb_ | oh hell, this X server is just as bad as the last one. |
| 22:50.46 | moray | pb_: 4.3 ? |
| 22:50.58 | dc_ibook | :/ |
| 22:50.58 | mallum | pb_: what card is it ? |
| 22:51.13 | pb_ | moray: yeah, the "4.3" (calls itself 4.2.99 I think) from Daniel Stone's repository. |
| 22:51.29 | pb_ | mallum: dual head, one nvidia, one Matrox. |
| 22:51.52 | dc_ibook | pb_: which fonts did you actualy install? |
| 22:51.58 | pb_ | I guess I could try pulling cards and see if it gets better, but it's a monumental pain to get that machine out from under the desk. |
| 22:52.09 | pb_ | dc_ibook: ah, I will have to restart my crashed computer to find out, just a minute. |
| 22:52.13 | dc_ibook | :} |
| 22:52.29 | dc_ibook | any idea what naga10 is? |
| 22:52.31 | dc_ibook | moray: ? |
| 22:52.43 | moray | dunno |
| 22:52.45 | moray | I seem to have: |
| 22:52.47 | pb_ | florian: night |
| 22:52.48 | moray | ttf-arphic-bkai00mp install |
| 22:52.48 | moray | ttf-arphic-bsmi00lp install |
| 22:52.48 | moray | ttf-arphic-gbsn00lp install |
| 22:52.48 | moray | ttf-arphic-gkai00mp install |
| 22:52.48 | moray | t |
| 22:52.51 | florian | night all |
| 22:52.53 | dc_ibook | hrm |
| 22:52.53 | moray | ttf-kochi-gothic install |
| 22:52.53 | moray | ttf-kochi-mincho install |
| 22:52.59 | moray | ttf-xtt-wadalab-gothic install |
| 22:52.59 | moray | ttf-xtt-watanabe-mincho install |
| 22:52.59 | moray | ttf-xwatanabe-mincho install |
| 22:53.07 | paul | pb_: where is the timezone supposed to be set? |
| 22:53.22 | dc_ibook | that's what I have moray |
| 22:53.30 | moray | paul: there's a timezones feed I think, with split-up packages in it? |
| 22:53.32 | pb_ | from memory, I just have ttf-kochi-gothic, ttf-kochi-mincho, and ttf-xtt-wadalab-gothic. |
| 22:53.50 | paul | pb_: yes, i have them installed, i'm just wondering what file sets the TZ? |
| 22:54.01 | moray | dc_ibook: I'm just using LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 here |
| 22:54.05 | pb_ | paul: we don't really have any good strategy for that at present. like moray says, there is a feed, but we have no good policy for either getting the packages installed or having TZ set. |
| 22:54.15 | paul | hmm.. |
| 22:54.28 | pb_ | paul: didn't we have this conversation a couple of days ago? |
| 22:54.49 | moray | paul: there's been a plan for a while to have an initial configuration programme, so if you've got some spare time.... |
| 22:55.10 | pb_ | right, back up in single user mode. |
| 22:55.47 | pb_ | seems what I actually have installed is ttf-kochi-gothic and ttf-xwatanabe-mincho. which is a bit weird, because I could have sworn I had more, but still. |
| 22:56.01 | paul | pb_: i dont know about debian, but usual thing is to have timezones in /usr/share/zoneinfo and have a link in /etc to point to the system timezone. ie /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/ or somesuch. |
| 22:56.05 | pb_ | er, the second one is of course ttf-xtt-... |
| 22:56.21 | paul | pb_: we did, and it was determined i didnt have the right timezone installed :) |
| 22:56.35 | pb_ | paul: right. but we don't want to waste flash on any extraneous timezone files, so there needs to be an extra package management step. |
| 22:56.43 | paul | of course yes. |
| 22:56.51 | pb_ | paul: also, it is far from clear that you really need the timezone files at all, rather than just encoding everything in $TZ directly. |
| 22:56.59 | paul | aha |
| 22:57.12 | pb_ | the only thing that the files really buy you is detailed historical DST information, and that is pretty much a fringe interest. |
| 22:58.01 | paul | pb_: well installing timezone-eire and doing ln -s /etc/timezones/Eire /etc/localtime seems to have done the trick. |
| 22:58.08 | paul | pb_: yes |
| 22:59.14 | paul | pb_: ie you mean its possible to encode all neccesary info DST into a TZ variable? |
| 22:59.47 | dc_ibook | now...somewhere there is a jap font still installed. |
| 23:01.18 | dc_ibook | um, how do I list currently install packages :} |
| 23:03.07 | moray | dc_ibook: on Debian? "dpkg -l" or "dpkg --get-selections" |
| 23:03.14 | moray | (depending what you want) |
| 23:04.09 | pb_ | dc_ibook: you could try using a program like rxvt that allows you to specify the exact font to use, and see if you get decent rendering there. |
| 23:04.21 | pb_ | aha |
| 23:04.25 | pb_ | I commented out the second head from my XF86Config file, and it seems that my desktop lives again. |
| 23:04.30 | dc_ibook | ya |
| 23:04.55 | pb_ | paul: as long as "necessary" is a fairly simple set of rules, yes. |
| 23:06.22 | dc_ibook | ah damn, need to re-get the font packages now |
| 23:08.11 | pb_ | dc_ibook: well, it would be a larger celebration if my second head worked, but I guess since I don't have a monitor on that card at the moment it isn't too much of a loss. |
| 23:09.30 | dc_ibook | heh |
| 23:09.32 | moray | lol |
| 23:09.45 | moray | possibly not an immediate concern really? |
| 23:09.52 | pb_ | no, indeed. |
| 23:10.00 | moray | (or were you planning on reconnecting it imminently?) |
| 23:10.21 | pb_ | well, actually yes. I took it off originally to use on my Alpha, but that machine turned out to be broken so I guess I can put it back. |
| 23:10.55 | pb_ | however, it's hardly a life-or-death issue, so I can struggle on with just the one head for now. |
| 23:11.01 | moray | ah. incidentally, what's the easiest way to find out which fonts gucharmap might actually be using? |
| 23:11.21 | moray | (I think there's something that at least shows you what fontconfig has cached, which might approximate it?) |
| 23:11.57 | pb_ | dunno, I've never found a foolproof method of doing that. Both pango and fontconfig will do their own machinations behind the scenes, so it can get complicated. |
| 23:12.48 | pb_ | You can check /proc/<pid>/fd, which will show you what font files a process has open, but that may not be the kind of elegant solution you were looking for. |
| 23:13.43 | pb_ | actually, even that probably won't work, since I guess most programs will mmap() the font and then chuck away the descriptor. oh well. |
| 23:16.53 | moray | pb_: is it AA now? |
| 23:17.07 | pb_ | yep |
| 23:17.09 | pb_ | xlogo also. |
| 23:17.15 | moray | ooh |
| 23:17.23 | pb_ | xclock even has translucent hands, a la GpeClockFace. |
| 23:17.23 | dc_ibook | coooool |
| 23:17.33 | dc_ibook | :) |
| 23:17.35 | moray | hm, maybe I should try 4.3 again, but the last time round it didn't work too well (crashed often) |
| 23:17.40 | pb_ | I guess it wouldn't be fair to claim that xclock stole the idea from us though. |
| 23:17.47 | dc_ibook | hehe |
| 23:18.09 | pb_ | moray: ah, that's not so encouraging. |
| 23:18.25 | moray | this was a while back though, so you'd hope they'd fixed some bugs in the meantime |
| 23:18.38 | pb_ | one can hope, yes. |
| 23:19.05 | pb_ | and I suppose my experiences with 4.2.1 weren't universally happy either, so my expectations may be calibrated a bit lower. |
| 23:19.12 | dc_ibook | pb_: hrm, so it seems that I've reinstalled the fonts you have installed, bit there's still this mystery non-aa font being used. |
| 23:19.23 | pb_ | dc_ibook: very strange. did you try with rxvt-aa? |
| 23:19.35 | pb_ | oh, hm, I suppose you don't have that on the desktop. duh. |
| 23:20.02 | dc_ibook | indeed : |
| 23:20.05 | dc_ibook | :\ |
| 23:20.55 | pb_ | dc_ibook: do you have any Japanese core fonts installed? |
| 23:21.10 | pb_ | I guess GTK ought to prefer client side anyway, but you never know. |
| 23:21.12 | pb_ | (check with xlsfonts) |
| 23:22.36 | dc_ibook | okay, what am I looking for? |
| 23:22.59 | pb_ | anything with a suspiciously Japanese-sounding name really. |
| 23:23.04 | dc_ibook | 12x24kana |
| 23:23.08 | dc_ibook | sounds suspect |
| 23:23.09 | pb_ | aha |
| 23:23.11 | dc_ibook | like a bitmap |
| 23:23.14 | pb_ | quite so. |
| 23:23.19 | dc_ibook | where could they be! |
| 23:23.30 | pb_ | in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts someplace, probably.\ |
| 23:23.32 | moray | "xlsfonts | grep -v iso" would narrow down what you have to check |
| 23:23.46 | moray | dpkg --get-selections | grep xfont |
| 23:23.59 | pb_ | right. any xfonts-* package is likely to be bad news. |
| 23:24.48 | dc_ibook | ah ha |
| 23:24.55 | pb_ | if you run a completely GTK2/Xft system, you shouldn't need any xfonts-* at all. if you still have legacy GTK1/Xaw/whatever apps, you probably need at least some core fonts, but nothing exotic. |
| 23:25.36 | moray | yes, I won't be deleting the basic ones just yet, but Chinese etc. X fonts are unlikely to help anything (I just noticed I had a lot of such things installed from previous times) |
| 23:26.38 | moray | although I'm not sure that there are yet TTF fonts in Debian for the whole of the space covered by the xfonts |
| 23:27.05 | pb_ | mmm, I'm not sure either. |
| 23:27.25 | moray | although I do seem to be getting e.g. AA Syriac, and I'm not sure where that's coming from |
| 23:27.59 | dc_ibook | right |
| 23:28.22 | dc_ibook | I've removed all the suspect xfont packages I could find.. |
| 23:28.30 | dc_ibook | but still it's using this non aa one |
| 23:28.33 | pb_ | hell. |
| 23:28.41 | pb_ | is the 12x24kana gone from xlsfonts? |
| 23:28.51 | dc_ibook | yes |
| 23:28.54 | pb_ | phew. |
| 23:29.04 | pb_ | so, hm, I wonder what can be the problem now. |
| 23:29.36 | dc_ibook | hrm |
| 23:29.40 | pb_ | if you blow it up really big, does it look like a bitmap, or is it an outline that just isn't getting AA'd? |
| 23:29.44 | dc_ibook | in xlsfonts there's still some naga something |
| 23:30.02 | dc_ibook | oh no! |
| 23:30.20 | pb_ | aiee! |
| 23:30.21 | dc_ibook | kanji fonts are still there : |
| 23:30.21 | moray | (some of the Hangul syllables, e.g. come out looking a bit odd after hinting - or, rather, adjacent characters look different due to behaving differently in relation to the hinter's expectations about what lines will be important) |
| 23:30.22 | dc_ibook | :]\ |
| 23:30.24 | dc_ibook | :\ |
| 23:32.06 | pb_ | hm. |
| 23:32.13 | dc_ibook | pb_: how do I get xlsfonts to update itself. |
| 23:32.28 | pb_ | dc_ibook: you might need to restart the X server, or take some similarly drastic action. |
| 23:32.35 | dc_ibook | right. |
| 23:32.37 | pb_ | or, maybe xset fp rehash |
| 23:36.23 | *** join/#gpe nike (~dctanner@modem-84-54-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 23:36.34 | dc_ | how boring, nothing |
| 23:36.37 | dc_ | still the same |
| 23:36.44 | pb_ | what's with this "nike" all of a sudden? |
| 23:36.50 | dc_ | dunno |
| 23:36.53 | pb_ | oh well. |
| 23:36.54 | dc_ | xchat decided to change it |
| 23:37.01 | pb_ | hm, so, still showing up in xlsfonts? |
| 23:37.19 | moray | pb_: presumably that's his alter ego on the channels he didn't want us to know about |
| 23:37.27 | pb_ | moray: oh yes, of course. |
| 23:37.33 | dc_ | yes, they are |
| 23:37.40 | dc_ | moray: ;p |
| 23:37.41 | dc_ | hehe |
| 23:38.06 | moray | hm, perhaps pango needs some better idea about quality control - installing ttf-thryomanes significantly degraded the quality of the fonts I got in gucharmap... |
| 23:38.13 | pb_ | hrm, resilient blighters these fonts. |
| 23:38.23 | pb_ | dc_: suggest you go looking at fonts.dir files to find the offending article. |
| 23:38.27 | moray | (it would be nice to be able to have it installed in case it covers some characters the others don't) |
| 23:38.45 | moray | dc_: if you find out where it lives you can dpkg -S to check where it's coming from |
| 23:38.50 | pb_ | moray: yeah. I think you can configure a preference list somehow. |
| 23:39.38 | pb_ | moray: but, as you may have gathered, the workings of pango's algorithms for font coverage are somewhat mysterious to me. |
| 23:40.59 | dc_ | jiskan24.pcf.gz -jis-fixed-medium-r-normal--24-230-75-75-c-240-jisx0208.1983-0 |
| 23:41.05 | dc_ | sound suspect.. |
| 23:41.30 | dc_ | rm them? |
| 23:41.30 | moray | dc_: what does "dpkg -S jiskan24.pcf.gz" say? |
| 23:41.55 | dc_ | xfonts-base! |
| 23:41.58 | moray | ha |
| 23:42.13 | moray | right, I have that installed too |
| 23:42.27 | moray | (and it's not preventing me from getting nicer fonts) |
| 23:42.33 | dc_ | :{ |
| 23:42.38 | pb_ | I guess I probably do as well. So yeah, presumably it's not to blame here. |
| 23:42.52 | dc_ | oww...iBook must be geting hot, mouse pad keeps stopping |
| 23:42.53 | moray | dc_: what programme are you using to test? just general GTK 2 stuff? |
| 23:42.59 | dc_ | gedit gtk2. |
| 23:43.13 | dc_ | or anything, even rxvt utf-8 |
| 23:43.20 | moray | dc_: with some text pre-written in an appropriate language? |
| 23:43.43 | pb_ | dc_: normal rxvt would be a bad test, because it only uses bitmap fonts. |
| 23:43.46 | dc_ | with LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 |
| 23:44.08 | moray | oh, I see |
| 23:44.37 | pb_ | but gedit should be ok. |
| 23:45.38 | moray | dc_: right, doing " LANG=ja_JP.UTF-8 gedit &" I get nice AA Japanese |
| 23:45.39 | pb_ | fwiw, my canonical japanese test so far has been loading the ja.po file from boot-floppies into gtk2 gedit. |
| 23:46.01 | moray | - in the programs that have restarted since I installed the TTF fonts, that is |
| 23:46.10 | dc_ | pb_: heh |
| 23:46.18 | moray | (so the title bar just has the boxes since I haven't restarted metacity) |
| 23:46.25 | dc_ | hrm... |
| 23:46.49 | moray | (actually, *nice* might be exaggerating slightly, but it's certainly AA) |
| 23:47.09 | dc_ | indeed, damn this is gonna drive me mad. |
| 23:47.26 | dc_ | how do we know lsxfonts isn't lying? |
| 23:47.38 | pb_ | yup, LANG=ja_JP gedit also yields passable-looking AA fonts for me. |
| 23:47.39 | dc_ | xlsfonts |
| 23:47.57 | pb_ | dc_: xlsfonts is the law, it speaks the truth more or less by definition. |
| 23:48.02 | moray | dc_: http://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~mma29/temp/japanese.png |
| 23:48.04 | dc_ | hrm but... |
| 23:48.11 | pb_ | but I'm becoming convinced that your problem is elsewhere, anyway. |
| 23:48.14 | dc_ | where can they be comim from |
| 23:48.38 | pb_ | dc_: did you manage to establish whether you were actually dealing with bitmaps, or just non-AA-rendered outlines? |
| 23:48.40 | dc_ | 8x16kana and 8x16romankana are defently bitmap jap fonts, no? |
| 23:48.51 | pb_ | dc_: yes, certainly sound like it. |
| 23:49.12 | pb_ | dc_: did you try find . -name fonts.dir | xargs grep kana in /usr/X11R6/lib/fonts? |
| 23:49.23 | moray | dc_: to see the X ones you could use xfontsel perhaps |
| 23:49.28 | pb_ | or any other directories you might have in your font path. |
| 23:49.34 | pb_ | moray: ah yes, good thinking |
| 23:50.07 | moray | I have 12x24kana 12x24romankana 8x16kana 8x16romankana kana14 |
| 23:50.13 | moray | (in xlsfonts) |
| 23:50.25 | pb_ | yah, just checked my machine, I get the same. |
| 23:50.40 | pb_ | so I guess they must all be xbase-fonts, and (presumably) benign. |
| 23:50.41 | dc_ | heh |
| 23:51.06 | moray | dc_: is it just Japanese you're getting this with? |
| 23:51.10 | pb_ | which would point the finger of blame back in the general direction of fontconfig or xft on Damien's machine, I suppose. |
| 23:51.16 | moray | yes |
| 23:51.24 | dc_ | indeed... |
| 23:51.50 | moray | pb_: but the only bit that's generally user-configured is the X font path list, which is presumably irrelevant here :/ |
| 23:52.05 | dc_ | what do you two have in /etc/Xftconfig? |
| 23:52.15 | dc_ | or isn't that important in gtk2.... |
| 23:52.16 | pb_ | dc_: Xftconfig is (should be) unused nowadays I think. |
| 23:52.24 | pb_ | fonts.conf is the one that matters. |
| 23:52.51 | moray | there are also dotfile equivalents I think (certainly for xftconfig) |
| 23:53.11 | pb_ | yeah, probably. |
| 23:53.21 | pb_ | dc_: do you know what versions of fontconfig and xft you have? |
| 23:53.35 | pb_ | I think I'm using the ones from fcpackage_2.0. |
| 23:54.11 | moray | ii fontconfig 2.1.92-2 generic font configuration library |
| 23:54.21 | moray | (from dpkg -l) |
| 23:54.30 | pb_ | and libxft2? |
| 23:54.44 | moray | ii libxft2 2.1-8 advanced font drawing library for X |
| 23:54.54 | dc_ | libfontconfig1 2.1.92-2 |
| 23:54.56 | dc_ | hrm |
| 23:54.59 | dc_ | do I even have fontconfig. |
| 23:55.00 | dc_ | hrm |
| 23:55.07 | dc_ | It could have been build with garnome |
| 23:55.49 | pb_ | ah, yeah, garnome probably ships fontconfig at least. |
| 23:55.49 | moray | dc_: what does dpkg -l fontconfig say, which should settle the point? |
| 23:55.55 | *** join/#gpe jg (~jg@dialup-67.30.187.207.Dial.Boston1.Level3.net) |
| 23:56.09 | dc_ | I only have libfontconfig install aparently |
| 23:56.16 | pb_ | moray: that wouldn't yield the truth if he was using garnome, need to check "which fc-list" or something as well. |
| 23:56.26 | moray | hi jg, we're just debugging dc's fonts ;) |
| 23:56.32 | *** join/#gpe chrisime_ (~chrisime@p50802069.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:56.32 | moray | pb_: indeed |
| 23:56.53 | moray | dc_: try "fc-list -V"? |
| 23:57.25 | moray | pb_: although that depends what dc_'s PATH is of course... |
| 23:57.58 | pb_ | yep. garnome usually inveigles itself into the PATH. |
| 23:58.13 | dc_ | oh dear... |
| 23:58.17 | moray | dc_: well? |
| 23:58.19 | dc_ | they're aa!!!! |
| 23:58.29 | moray | ha, you just looked more closely? |
| 23:58.32 | moray | (or something changed) |
| 23:58.34 | dc_ | apt-get install fontconfig |
| 23:58.36 | pb_ | dc_: ! |
| 23:58.41 | dc_ | and it reconfigured itself :\ |
| 23:58.44 | moray | hm |
| 23:58.47 | pb_ | ha. |
| 23:58.49 | dc_ | ha! |
| 23:58.51 | dc_ | hahh! |
| 23:59.01 | pb_ | oh well. must have been jg signing on that did the trick. |
| 23:59.17 | moray | ooh: |
| 23:59.17 | moray | Hello Moray, |
| 23:59.18 | moray | Thank you for your booking. |
| 23:59.18 | moray | You name is included on the Trinity room list for GUADEC. You will |
| 23:59.20 | moray | shortly be receiving a request for some additional information like |
| 23:59.21 | dc_ | I think so! |
| 23:59.22 | moray | address, phone contact. |
| 23:59.25 | dc_ | oooh |
| 23:59.27 | dc_ | hrm |
| 23:59.28 | moray | pb_: of course ;) |
| 23:59.39 | dc_ | I need to work out my exam dates. |
| 23:59.49 | pb_ | dc_: good thinking. |
| 23:59.51 | dc_ | but I may be able to come, which would be good fun. |
