| 00:35.36 | *** join/#gpe dneuer (~smoothie@192.204.192.36) |
| 00:35.59 | dneuer | hi |
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| 01:23.06 | walters | hey, so any word on gpe packages for openzaurus? |
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| 02:16.30 | *** topic/#gpe is GPE Palmtop Environment | http://gpe.handhelds.org | http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/CurrentThingsToDo | http://europa.debian.org/bugzilla | bootgpe2 images now at http://familiar.handhelds.org/releases/v0.7/boot/ | Familiar 0.7 issues: http://www.handhelds.org/bugzilla/showdependencytree.cgi?id=99 | New matchbox website with screenshots and docs - > http://handhelds.org/~mallum/matchbox/ |
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| 08:02.36 | *** join/#gpe florian (~boor@141.99.42.43) |
| 08:07.12 | florian | hi all! |
| 08:09.40 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 08:25.36 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 08:27.16 | florian | cmarqu_werk: hi! |
| 08:29.25 | cmarqu_werk | Hi florian |
| 08:29.57 | cmarqu_werk | florian: http://slayer.templeofhate.com/~colin/ |
| 08:36.24 | florian | cmarqu_werk: this would have been my next question :-) |
| 08:37.44 | florian | weee.... cool |
| 09:26.23 | cmarqu_werk | florian: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.4251.png should probably not say "Running..." in that button, but tell the user what the button does ("Stop" maybe?). |
| 09:33.23 | florian | cmarqu_werk: i know... this all needs to be improved. but a real (working) package manager is lots of work. |
| 09:34.27 | florian | cmarqu_werk: stopping this ipkg is not a good idea... it's possible to kill your whole package management with this |
| 09:35.11 | cmarqu_werk | Yeah. Maybe the buttons should all be greyed out then. |
| 09:35.12 | florian | a kind of libipkg wold be a nice base to create a real package management gui |
| 09:35.29 | cmarqu_werk | Indeed. |
| 09:35.44 | cmarqu_werk | Did you look at how pikpak and the OPIE thing are doing it? |
| 09:37.18 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb_@dsl-62-3-66-201.zen.co.uk) |
| 09:38.14 | cmarqu_werk | Hi pb_ |
| 09:40.17 | florian | s/wold/would |
| 09:40.26 | pb_ | hi cmarqu_werk |
| 09:40.28 | pb_ | hi florian |
| 09:54.20 | florian | pb_: hi |
| 09:55.02 | florian | cmarqu_werk: yep, right... |
| 09:56.51 | florian | cmarqu_werk: no, this was only the result of a discussion. everything else i think would not make sense. |
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| 11:06.56 | mallum | hey |
| 11:07.39 | mallum | pb_: did you think about the dropping the background xsetting btw ? |
| 11:15.39 | pb_ | Yeah, I'm pretty happy with having it set in the theme. |
| 11:16.31 | pb_ | I'll take it out next time I do a new version of the session-scripts, or whichever package it is that ships the defaults file. |
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| 11:17.53 | pb_ | hi paul |
| 11:18.02 | paul | morning pb |
| 11:18.16 | mallum | pb_: excellent |
| 11:22.57 | pb_ | argh, garnome is the suck. |
| 11:24.41 | mallum | pb_: debian is more or less up to date with garnome nowadays |
| 11:25.20 | pb_ | yeah, the debian packages seem to suck even worse though. I can never make them work. |
| 11:25.29 | pb_ | I think my garnome problems are just down to bad $PATH variables though. |
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| 12:19.54 | cmarqu_werk | Did anybody try cvsup with GPE CVS? |
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| 15:26.38 | mallum | jg: hi |
| 15:27.38 | jg | mallum: hi. |
| 15:29.01 | mallum | jg: I dont have the time nor motivation any more to produce X 4.3 packages for familiar any more, so if you want to upload yours fell free to do so |
| 15:29.39 | jg | mallum: with all that is going on with X, I don't have the time this instant.... |
| 15:29.47 | jg | mallum: what's the state of the build scripts? |
| 15:31.45 | mallum | jg: they should just work. no changes to your ones since I built the 4.2 CVS packages |
| 15:32.00 | jg | ok. |
| 15:32.15 | jg | how are your packages right now? People happy with them? |
| 15:32.20 | jg | (mostly?) |
| 15:33.47 | mallum | 4.2 ones ? |
| 15:34.00 | jg | whatever you've put in unstable? |
| 15:34.18 | mallum | yeah I think there fine |
| 15:34.37 | jg | that's what's getting tested for .7, right? |
| 15:34.54 | mallum | yes I believe so |
| 15:35.31 | jg | ok. I've been unable to even keep up with my mail since last week. Sigh... |
| 15:37.31 | mallum | freetype is broken, but thats not my doing |
| 15:37.53 | jg | yeah, we need to make sure freetype is *not* built from XFree86 bits. |
| 15:38.04 | jg | (which are badly stale). |
| 15:38.28 | mallum | whats up with them ? |
| 15:39.32 | jg | mallum: well, it is part of the general XFree86 mess, IMHO. To begin with, they probably shouldn't be distributed by XFree86 at all, and Keith wanted to get them updated again last fall, and David Dawes said no... |
| 15:39.58 | jg | mallum: I'm running something close to current on my desktop and am pretty happy. |
| 15:40.29 | jg | mallum: so maybe the right thing is to start using the Debian upstream, if it is reasonably current. |
| 15:40.47 | jg | (though building ourselves would save some space). |
| 15:41.42 | mallum | jg: yeah id be weary of the debian upstream ones, the maintainer seems to have a habit of applying wierd patches which trash hinting |
| 15:42.04 | mallum | jg: maybe thats ok now though |
| 15:42.19 | jg | mallum: maybe not, due to the Apple patents. |
| 15:42.26 | jg | mallum: not sure how debian builds these days. |
| 15:42.33 | mallum | jg: the current freetype in unstable produces a mess for 7pt fonts currently |
| 15:42.51 | mallum | jg: thats fam unstable |
| 15:42.52 | pb_ | mallum: is that still true with the latest version for you? It works on my ipaq. |
| 15:43.22 | mallum | pb_: did you upload a new version ? |
| 15:43.28 | jg | mallum: are we sure it isn't broken hinting in the font? |
| 15:43.29 | pb_ | yeah, last night |
| 15:44.04 | mallum | pb_: cool, will test in a mo. what was up with the older one in the end ? |
| 15:46.37 | pb_ | I'm not sure, looks like it might have been miscompiled in some subtle way. |
| 15:47.59 | jg | pb_: did you turn on TT hinting? |
| 15:48.12 | pb_ | jg: you mean the bytecode interpreter? It seems to be enabled, yes. |
| 15:48.57 | jg | pb_: No, the interpreter is always enabled: it is the use of a small number of the hints covered by the Apple TT patents.... |
| 15:49.10 | jg | (it is configured off by default). |
| 15:49.22 | jg | pb_: you have to go in and edit one header file. |
| 15:50.28 | pb_ | jg: ok. I think it's enabled, but I will check. |
| 15:51.47 | jg | pb_: unless you've edited include/freetype/config/ftoption, it isn't |
| 15:52.02 | jg | pb_: unless you've edited include/freetype/config/ftoption.h, it isn't |
| 15:52.10 | pb_ | jg: The build scripts edit that file. |
| 15:53.17 | jg | This should be defined:#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER |
| 15:53.24 | pb_ | jg: it is defined. |
| 15:53.28 | jg | ok. |
| 15:53.40 | jg | what version are you trying? |
| 15:53.47 | pb_ | 2.1.4rc2. |
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| 15:54.13 | pb_ | hi dave |
| 15:54.26 | dneuer | hi pb_, how's it going? |
| 15:54.30 | *** join/#gpe chrisime (~chrisime@p50802C66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:54.34 | jg | hmmm... I'm running rc1 on my desktop. What font is broken? |
| 15:55.03 | dneuer | hi jg |
| 15:55.12 | jg | dneuer: hi. |
| 15:55.36 | jg | pb_: what font, at what size? I'll try it on my desktop.... |
| 15:56.26 | pb_ | jg: Verdana at 7pt (6pt and 7.5pt were fine). |
| 15:57.24 | pb_ | jg: I wasn't able to reproduce the problem on any other machine, and repackaging the Debian libfreetype for Familiar seems to have cleared it up on the ipaq as well. |
| 15:58.14 | pb_ | I think Luxi was also affected, but not so strikingly. The effect with Verdana was extremely pronounced, it was like a completely different font. |
| 15:59.10 | jg | hmmm.... On my x86, with rc1, verdana at 7 seems fine. |
| 15:59.24 | jg | (Built from source). |
| 16:00.23 | mallum | it was a very odd bug |
| 16:04.14 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: BTW, would it be possible for the "Desktop" item in mbmenu to start a new mbdesktop if there is none running? I had mbdesktop xkilled yesterday, so it would have been a useful feature at that moment. |
| 16:04.53 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: not easily no |
| 16:08.29 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: maybe in the future when we get d-conf it will be easier |
| 16:08.47 | cmarqu_werk | Would be cool. |
| 16:11.30 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: what does gnome do if you kill off nuatilus and then hit the toggle desktop button ? |
| 16:13.16 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: Don't know. And I can't try ATM |
| 16:13.57 | pb_ | It seems to be pretty hard to get rid of nautilus anyway. Whenever I try, it just starts up again. |
| 16:14.39 | cmarqu_werk | I think that this at least used to be a config setting. |
| 16:14.53 | pb_ | Aha. |
| 16:14.54 | moray | that happens for panels, panel apps etc. too, I think it's just the general session thing |
| 16:15.49 | moray | there used to be a user-visible 'draw desktop with nautilus' (or something) setting, but that seems to have been removed |
| 16:41.06 | *** part/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 17:26.42 | mallum | I made 'panel flipping' work with matchbox, where on rotation, the panel rotates too, changing orientaion so its size is static |
| 17:28.07 | mallum | what do people think on making this behaviour the defualt and ditching panel scrolling . ( a full dock would now just refuse to dock and app, and the app/panel could then open another dock or try an find an existing one with free space ) |
| 17:31.09 | moray | mallum: dunno - it sounds reasonable for most stuff, but what would happen e.g. with the clock on a newly-vertical panel? |
| 17:32.19 | mallum | moray: I have a plan to rotate it vertically |
| 17:34.00 | moray | mallum: well, it sounds interesting, but I don't think without getting people to try it you can be sure if they'll like it or not |
| 17:34.34 | moray | mallum: certainly on my picturebook I thought it was better to move the panel to be vertical (when using the 1024x480 internal screen), although I normally use horizontal ones |
| 17:36.09 | mallum | moray: you can run the panel with a --orientaion east|west and it will run vertically, but thats quite expeimental ( eg not finished ) at the moment |
| 17:37.23 | moray | mallum: yeah, I've seen the panel being vertical, the bit I'm not sure about is whether people will accept it as logical for it to 'stay in the same place' or complain that 'it's not rotating' |
| 17:40.03 | mallum | moray: Im sure as will all things some people will hate it and some people will like it ;-) |
| 18:52.23 | nelson | moray: do you know if the keylaunch while locked problem is fixed in unstable? |
| 19:00.14 | moray | nelson: it should be now - we fixed gpe-login to pass through power button presses at the weekend |
| 19:07.00 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:07.45 | nelson | Cool, thanks. |
| 19:11.46 | dneuer | moray, nelson: run that last one by me again? Power button issues w/ GPE? In .7pre? |
| 19:11.53 | *** join/#gpe chrisime (~chrisime@p50802C66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:15.05 | moray | dneuer: if you had gone into suspend and come back out, so that gpe-login was onscreen, gpe-login stopped any keypresses getting to apps (sensibly), including the power button (less usefully) |
| 19:25.00 | nelson | Okay, what's the call on GPE? Should I do -pre7 even though there are still known problems with the kernel under active development? |
| 19:25.54 | pb_ | nelson: I think the current state is noticeably better than -pre6, so my vote would be yes. |
| 19:26.36 | pb_ | The touchscreen problem seems like it might take an indeterminate length of time to fix. If we can have people beat on the other stuff while that work is ongoing, so much the better. |
| 19:27.15 | pb_ | Also, I guess it would be nice to see if we can actually get a working Opie image with pre7. |
| 19:31.33 | pb_ | mallum: were you able to find out whether the libfreetype6 problem still persists for you? |
| 19:31.58 | mallum | pb_: not yet, let me try quickly |
| 19:32.09 | pb_ | thanks |
| 19:33.34 | mallum | pb_: ah I just awoke ipaq from sleep and the screen locker had xkbd as a thin line :( |
| 19:33.46 | pb_ | darn, that again. |
| 19:34.02 | pb_ | I thought we had nailed that one by spawning a new xkbd each time. obviously not. :-( |
| 19:35.10 | mallum | its very odd, I havn't seen it happen for ages |
| 19:35.21 | pb_ | no, me neither. I have no idea what is happening there. |
| 19:35.39 | pb_ | I suppose someone needs to do some sleuthing with xwininfo when it gets into this bad state. |
| 19:43.45 | mallum | hmm, ipaq is having some trouble booting :( let me try without sleeve .. |
| 20:02.33 | dneuer | so people other than me are having weird issues (like ipaq suspending and never waking up, etc)? |
| 20:03.40 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~netwinder@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 20:12.18 | pb_ | dneuer: haven't heard of that particular issue in a while. |
| 20:12.53 | dneuer | could be bootldr, I've still got 2.18.48 on the 3650, I think |
| 20:13.00 | pb_ | ah. yes, that would suck. |
| 20:13.17 | pb_ | try upgrading to bootldr 2.19.69 and see if the problem goes away. |
| 20:13.51 | dneuer | that was my plan for this eve, thanks |
| 20:14.18 | pb_ | there was at least one suspend-related bug that I know was introduced around 2.18.20 and not fixed until 2.19.xx. |
| 20:16.12 | dneuer | ah |
| 20:16.36 | dneuer | do you know if 2.19.69 is OK on 31xx? I thought I heard jamey say that on the ML |
| 20:18.14 | *** join/#gpe BBrox (~ulmer@bbrox.org) |
| 20:19.08 | pb_ | yeah, I think it should be ok. |
| 20:19.24 | pb_ | dammit, the local low-lifes have broken into my car again. |
| 20:19.40 | dneuer | pb_: sorry to hear that |
| 20:20.00 | dneuer | pb_: if you lived in the US you could shoot them |
| 20:20.16 | pb_ | well, they didn't take much, just a $15 jerrycan and about another $15 worth of fuel that was in it. But it's irritating. |
| 20:21.14 | dneuer | It sounds irritating, and I don't even know what a jerrycan is ;-) |
| 20:23.14 | pb_ | heh. |
| 20:32.36 | pb_ | dneuer: http://www.blitzusa.com/images/jerry.gif is the article in question, incidentally :-) |
| 20:34.40 | dneuer | can't resolve the DNS, humph |
| 20:34.48 | pb_ | ha. |
| 21:30.43 | nelson | dneuer: jerrycan is a fuel can, probably about three gallons in size. |
| 21:31.48 | nelson | dneuer: the Germans used them in WWII, hence the term 'jerrycan'. (I think) |
| 21:31.54 | mallum | doh, my ipaq is toast :( hangs on fb penguin |
| 21:32.40 | moray | mallum: in bootldr or linux? |
| 21:33.37 | mallum | moray: linux |
| 21:34.18 | mallum | moray: doh I think there is stuff on it though Id like to keep before reflash :( |
| 21:34.33 | moray | oh dear. |
| 21:34.37 | dneuer | ok, bye all (thanks for the jerrycan analysis, nelson) |
| 21:35.06 | nelson | mallum: you could dump the filesystem from the bootloader. |
| 21:35.21 | PaxAnima | nelson: what does "jerrycan" have to do with germans? |
| 21:35.37 | nelson | PaxAnima: jerries == Germans |
| 21:35.54 | PaxAnima | ah |
| 21:36.01 | nelson | PaxAnima: at least that's how I got it from my father. |
| 21:36.10 | mallum | nelson: ah good idea |
| 21:36.24 | PaxAnima | nelson: ok.. |
| 21:36.26 | mallum | nelson: do the 0.7pre images need a new bootloader ? |
| 21:37.12 | nelson | mallum: how new is new? |
| 21:37.31 | nelson | I don't know of any intrinsic reason why 2.18.01 shouldn't work, but I've heard reports that it doesn't. |
| 21:37.43 | mallum | I appear to have 2.18.01 |
| 21:37.47 | nelson | recommended is going to be 2.19.69, or thereabouts. |
| 21:38.02 | mallum | okey, does that flash from compact flash ? |
| 21:38.15 | nelson | mallum: no, that's at least part of the problem. |
| 21:38.25 | nelson | mallum: you need at least 2.19.57 to reliably flash from CF. |
| 21:38.33 | mallum | nelson: okey cool |
| 21:44.15 | mallum | nelson: you know an easy way to make diff include a file which is in one tree but no the other ? |
| 21:51.03 | *** join/#gpe florian (~vicki@p50928DCA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:51.20 | florian | hi all! |
| 21:52.55 | mallum | hey florian |
| 21:54.56 | moray | mallum: doesn't that just happen if you do a recursive diff between two directories? |
| 21:55.14 | moray | mallum: as in, it'll add all the lines in the file / remove them all to leave a blank file |
| 21:58.37 | mallum | moray: I think it needs a -N switch to add a file which exists in one src tree but not the other |
| 21:59.12 | moray | ah, that's probably true, yes |
| 21:59.59 | moray | ('diff -urN' and all that...) |
| 22:00.16 | mallum | the patch appeared to work :-) |
| 22:00.33 | mallum | moray: Im just too used to just a -ur |
| 22:01.02 | moray | ah. |
| 22:01.11 | mallum | aha deliverence is on |
| 22:01.21 | mallum | squeel piggy squeel |
| 22:01.26 | moray | ? |
| 22:01.38 | mallum | moray: have you never seen deliverence ? |
| 22:02.07 | moray | not so that I recognise the name, anyway - remember I'm an impoverished student without a TV here ;) |
| 22:03.16 | mallum | :( |
| 22:03.40 | mallum | if you'd have seen it you have recognised when I said 'squeel piggy squeel' |
| 22:03.59 | mallum | its a pretty disturbing part of the film |
| 22:09.44 | nelson | mallum: yes, you tell it to treat an absent file as empty. |
| 22:10.04 | nelson | mallum: don't remember the exact command line option. |
| 22:10.13 | mallum | nelson: with -N I figured |
| 22:10.17 | nelson | maybe it's ... -N ..... |
| 22:10.19 | nelson | :) |
| 22:10.34 | nelson | It would help if I read everything else before replying. |
| 22:10.41 | mallum | nelson: deliverence is on tv |
| 22:10.47 | mallum | nelson: you must have seen it |
| 22:11.16 | nelson | mallum: actually, no, never seen it. |
| 22:11.32 | nelson | mallum: read the book, though, and that was bad enuf. |
| 22:11.48 | mallum | ewe yeah I can imagine the book being pretty bad |
| 22:12.30 | florian | night all |
| 22:12.55 | florian | (reading a book was a nice idea :-) |
| 23:23.57 | mallum | with heads on sticks ? |
| 23:24.15 | pb_ | no, but I won a Lucozade sweatshirt in tonight's quiz. |
| 23:42.23 | chrisime | pb_, there? |
| 23:42.29 | pb_ | chrisime: hi |
| 23:42.53 | chrisime | pb_, hey |
| 23:43.01 | chrisime | i need to tag something in cvs |
| 23:43.06 | chrisime | do you know how it works |
| 23:43.19 | pb_ | cvs tag ... |
| 23:43.25 | chrisime | yes? |
| 23:44.19 | pb_ | cvs tag my-tag-name-in-lights-here |
| 23:45.50 | chrisime | oh |
