| 00:13.44 | dc__ | florian: sorry, explain? |
| 00:13.49 | dc__ | florian: it's gpl. |
| 00:13.49 | dc__ | ? |
| 00:14.00 | mallum | hey dc__ |
| 00:14.11 | dc__ | mallum: oh hey! |
| 00:14.14 | dc__ | mallum: how's the tablet going? |
| 00:14.46 | mallum | dc__: I've hit a bit of stumbling block with the keyboard, it dont work with the debian installer :( |
| 00:14.52 | dc__ | mallum: oh dear. |
| 00:15.08 | mallum | dc__: but ..... it does work with the mandrake one ! but I dont really want to install mandrake |
| 00:15.40 | PaxAnima | mallum: asked on the multisync mailing list about doc for the plugins... was recommended to look at the irmc_sync plugin, and will do so tomorrow... |
| 00:15.41 | florian | dc__: libgpewidget is lgpl... but i think it's worth to contact the author of this widget. |
| 00:16.26 | mallum | PaxAnima: cool :-) |
| 00:16.43 | dc__ | florian: eh..I mean your color selector |
| 00:16.46 | PaxAnima | mallum: the empty_plugin was outdated, BTW... |
| 00:17.06 | spung | oh no |
| 00:17.14 | spung | i have to reboot my firewall |
| 00:17.25 | spung | because of a crappy graphics card |
| 00:17.38 | spung | 12:17AM up 67 days, 23:19, 3 users, load averages: 0.03, 0.05, 0.01 |
| 00:18.36 | dc__ | mallum: ! |
| 00:18.52 | florian | dc__: it uses this color slider widget, this is gpl :-/ |
| 00:19.05 | dc__ | spung: smoothwall? |
| 00:19.12 | spung | dc__: freebsd :D |
| 00:19.16 | dc__ | :\ |
| 00:19.21 | pb_ | mallum: On the older zauruses, you clicked "Terminate QTopia" and then typed "/" at the text console, maybe something similar will work on yours. |
| 00:19.26 | dc__ | florian: how not fun. |
| 00:19.58 | dc__ | so does using lgpl for libgpewidget mean we have to contact the author of any gpl code we want in our lgpl lib? |
| 00:21.27 | florian | yes, if we want to obey these licenses strict, we need to do |
| 00:21.30 | mallum | pb_: damn it in the inittab :( |
| 00:21.40 | dc__ | how borrrring |
| 00:23.01 | mallum | pb_: whats the command the change runlevel ? |
| 00:23.47 | pb_ | telinit |
| 00:24.34 | mallum | cool thanks |
| 00:26.17 | mallum | pb_: telinit fixed it :-) |
| 00:32.33 | BluefoxIcy | hmm |
| 00:33.29 | spung | anyone here have the gtk2 version of evolution? |
| 00:34.04 | mallum | arg |
| 00:34.11 | BluefoxIcy | evolution? |
| 00:34.14 | BluefoxIcy | wth is that? |
| 00:34.30 | spung | BluefoxIcy: Ximian Evolution, the e-mail client |
| 00:34.40 | spung | and pim |
| 00:34.46 | BluefoxIcy | oh |
| 00:36.41 | mallum | my kernel is dead rebooting |
| 00:45.50 | florian | is there a way to update an ipaq's bootloader without serial access? |
| 00:47.38 | pb_ | In theory you can do it from inside Linux, but I don't think there is much support for that. |
| 00:48.11 | florian | ok, then this will have to wait until tomorrow.... |
| 00:48.15 | florian | brb |
| 00:52.25 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@p50928CE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:56.05 | florian | hmm, if i try to connect my ipaq using pan i get a success message - but no device :-/ |
| 00:56.25 | pb_ | :-( |
| 00:57.00 | BluefoxIcy | heh |
| 00:58.04 | BluefoxIcy | <BluefoxIcy> lemme finish downing this last 5 inches and I'll go get the file.. |
| 00:58.06 | BluefoxIcy | <dobey> what? |
| 00:58.11 | BluefoxIcy | <dobey> nevermind, i don't want to know |
| 00:58.11 | BluefoxIcy | * BluefoxIcy wipes the white blob from his mustache |
| 00:58.41 | BluefoxIcy | you know, they really pile the mayonaise on those subs |
| 00:58.54 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-21-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:59.41 | mallum | doh tried to get a shot of X on the c700, but left the flash on :( |
| 01:00.07 | dc__ | ! |
| 01:00.43 | mallum | so you couldn't see what was on the display :( |
| 01:00.57 | BluefoxIcy | doesn't work anyway |
| 01:00.59 | florian | mallum: c700?! |
| 01:01.03 | BluefoxIcy | you need HDTV for that crap |
| 01:01.09 | BluefoxIcy | what's a c700? |
| 01:01.36 | BluefoxIcy | mallum: use the command line program "import -window root foo.png" |
| 01:01.38 | mallum | florian: yep :) |
| 01:01.56 | florian | mallum: _no_! |
| 01:07.31 | florian | mallum: where did you get this from? |
| 01:07.39 | *** join/#gpe dan_t (~dan_t@212-41-206-101.adsl.galactica.it) |
| 01:08.15 | mallum | florian: japan |
| 01:08.21 | dc__ | :D |
| 01:08.42 | mallum | florian: I have a contact there, that will send you one if you paypal him money :-) |
| 01:09.40 | *** join/#gpe paul_ ([74TmMfj6r@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 01:09.50 | mallum | florian: much cheaper than dynamism |
| 01:10.18 | florian | mallum: how much?! |
| 01:10.24 | BluefoxIcy | what the heck is a c700 |
| 01:10.27 | mallum | florian: ~500$ iirc |
| 01:11.02 | florian | mallum: that is cheaper than my ipaq :-) |
| 01:11.15 | dc__ | god yes¬ |
| 01:11.16 | dc__ | ! |
| 01:11.28 | dc__ | mallum: that's good! |
| 01:12.29 | mallum | there is a crap pict of it here http://www.handhelds.org/~mallum/c700-1.jpg |
| 01:12.36 | florian | how to convince hotplug to configure a bnep device if it shows up? |
| 01:12.48 | mallum | but I left the stupid flash on , so you cant actually see X :( |
| 01:12.57 | dc__ | mallum: mind taking another one? |
| 01:12.58 | pb_ | florian: from what max was saying earlier it sounds like hotplug is not working very well with bnep at the moment |
| 01:13.12 | BluefoxIcy | eww |
| 01:13.22 | BluefoxIcy | you moron you're not supposed to touch the screen x.x |
| 01:13.26 | dc__ | mallum: hehe |
| 01:13.34 | dc__ | mallum: how's the keyboard? |
| 01:13.47 | mallum | dc__: I would if my stupid laptop didn't decide to crash when I stuck the cf card in |
| 01:13.53 | BluefoxIcy | that's disgusting, get a paper towel and some isoprophyl alcohol and wipe that screen down right now little man! :-D |
| 01:13.54 | dc__ | mallum: :(( |
| 01:14.29 | mallum | dc__: and then of couse all the apps died, cos I was running them locally with the display pointed at the c700 |
| 01:14.40 | dc__ | mallum: oh dear. |
| 01:14.51 | florian | pb_: thats not good... but max says much if a day is long :-/ |
| 01:14.52 | dc__ | mallum: hrm...what do you think....c700 or 5450 |
| 01:15.17 | pb_ | florian: I will have a look at it tomorrow and see if I can figure out what's up. |
| 01:15.53 | mallum | dc__: well c700 has only 32Mb of memory and battery is crappy |
| 01:16.05 | dc__ | mallum: but the screen? |
| 01:16.24 | pb_ | florian: meantime I have uploaded a new gpe-bluetooth and libgpewidget. |
| 01:16.35 | florian | pb_: ok, great... then i'll do some gpe-conf stuff in the meantime |
| 01:16.46 | florian | pb_: :-)) |
| 01:17.06 | dan_t | pb_: what canges in gpe-bluetooth ? |
| 01:17.27 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~netwinder@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 01:17.30 | dc__ | hehe, listent to this. |
| 01:17.33 | dan_t | rhere isnt an annunce or cvs mailing list for this king of informations ? |
| 01:17.36 | dc__ | at http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus/index.shtml |
| 01:17.46 | dc__ | "The Sharp VGA (640x480) screen is truly awesome: bright and razor sharp. In fact, sometimes it's so detailed it can be difficult to read the text" |
| 01:18.00 | pb_ | dan_t: subscribe to the cvs-updates-gpe list |
| 01:18.37 | pb_ | dc__: heh |
| 01:19.01 | florian | pb_: did i miss something? this ml really exists? |
| 01:19.13 | pb_ | https://handhelds.org/mailman/listinfo/cvs-updates-gpe |
| 01:19.41 | mallum | dc__: I think thats more due to qtopia not being very well adjusted for a larger display |
| 01:20.02 | dc__ | mallum: yes. |
| 01:20.21 | dc__ | mallum: what are the keys on the keyboard like? |
| 01:20.30 | dan_t | pb_: why it is not listed here: http://handhelds.org/email_lists.html ?? |
| 01:20.54 | pb_ | dan_t: er, it is. |
| 01:20.56 | mallum | dc__: yeah better than I expected, better than the 550 |
| 01:21.00 | mallum | dc__: usable |
| 01:21.07 | pb_ | dan_t: it is the fourth entry down in the table. |
| 01:21.11 | dc__ | mallum: for 'fast' typing? |
| 01:21.16 | dc__ | mallum: that's cool |
| 01:21.28 | dc__ | hrm, SD and CF, sound good |
| 01:21.31 | dan_t | pb_: you are right, i need some more sleep |
| 01:21.31 | florian | pb_: oh, i think i should sleep some more... |
| 01:21.57 | pb_ | florian: always a good plan |
| 01:24.12 | dc__ | mallum: ah, a removable battery then? |
| 01:24.23 | dc__ | mallum: the battery problem could be solved by getting a spare no? |
| 01:24.46 | mallum | dc__: yep, its been pulled out quite a few times to force qtopia to restart cleanly |
| 01:25.04 | dc__ | mallum: hrm...and you think the screen is good? |
| 01:25.07 | dc__ | mallum: worth it? |
| 01:25.16 | dc__ | mallum: basicly I have 600 pounds. |
| 01:25.17 | mallum | dc__: the screen is amazing |
| 01:25.41 | mallum | dc__: the battery I can live with |
| 01:25.48 | mallum | dc__: the memory is the most worrying |
| 01:25.53 | dc__ | mallum: so if I can score a c700 + spare battery and wifi CF card I'm set. |
| 01:26.00 | mallum | dc__: and qtopia is very slow on it |
| 01:26.13 | mallum | dc__: Im hoping X will be faster |
| 01:26.22 | dc__ | mallum: ah okay. |
| 01:26.33 | mallum | dc__: but who knows, theres 4x as many pixels to shove around |
| 01:26.41 | dc__ | mallum: my main reason is that familiar on the 5450 is gonna take some time... |
| 01:26.50 | dc__ | which is gonna be really boring |
| 01:27.21 | florian | good idea... i need some sleep... good night! |
| 01:27.31 | pb_ | florian: night! |
| 01:27.32 | mallum | g'night |
| 01:27.57 | dc__ | mallum: so..how long did yours take to arrive? |
| 01:28.16 | mallum | dc__: approx a week |
| 01:28.20 | mallum | dc__: maybe less |
| 01:28.23 | dc__ | hrm |
| 01:28.26 | dc__ | I think I may get one :) |
| 01:28.27 | mallum | dc__: the guy has to order one first |
| 01:28.32 | dc__ | mallum: ah okay |
| 01:28.38 | mallum | dc__: that took a few days aswell |
| 01:28.41 | dc__ | mallum: how much did you pay? |
| 01:28.46 | mallum | dc__: one sec I'll dig out the url |
| 01:28.50 | dc__ | :) |
| 01:29.48 | mallum | dc__: http://shop.conics.net/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/ |
| 01:31.04 | dc__ | lets work it out then |
| 01:32.24 | dc__ | ibot, convert 643 usd to gbp |
| 01:32.32 | dc__ | ibot, convert 643 usd to gbp |
| 01:33.41 | dc__ | yay |
| 01:33.47 | dc__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:33.47 | dc__ | United States Dollars = 406.243 GBP |
| 01:33.47 | dc__ | United Kingdom Pounds |
| 01:34.03 | dc__ | that's only with extra battery |
| 01:35.10 | mallum | see there pretty cheap |
| 01:35.21 | dc__ | wow..now 550 with a CF camera :] |
| 01:35.25 | mallum | bear in mind customs did me for an extra 60 quid |
| 01:35.31 | dc__ | ah right |
| 01:35.37 | dc__ | so I guess I'm with that |
| 01:38.38 | dc__ | mallum: so how long before we have X then ;)? |
| 01:41.21 | mallum | dc__: tinyX runs fine on it |
| 01:41.33 | mallum | dc__: no ts driver though as yet, but keyboard works |
| 01:44.24 | dc__ | mallum: so is familiar going to be hard to install, or have you already done so? |
| 01:44.57 | dc__ | I'm just thinking bootlrd-ness, or by some miracle does it use crl? |
| 01:45.58 | mallum | dc__: kergoth has OZ images for it |
| 01:46.04 | mallum | dc__: I havn't tried one as yet |
| 01:46.05 | dc__ | ah |
| 01:46.22 | mallum | dc__: Im just running X with the binary and killing off qtopia |
| 01:46.27 | dc__ | mallum: I guess it's gonna be fun getting GPE to run then. |
| 01:46.35 | dc__ | mallum: I thought so |
| 01:47.00 | mallum | dc__: I dont think it would be too hard |
| 01:47.30 | mallum | dc__: Im most interested by the fact I've just discovered it has an ati graphics chip in it ... |
| 01:47.50 | dc__ | owo |
| 01:48.16 | dc__ | now I want one of these aswell http://www.dynamism.com/moni/ |
| 01:48.40 | dc__ | camera, wifi. |
| 01:48.42 | dc__ | camera...wifi |
| 01:52.10 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@62.60.121.232) |
| 01:52.15 | dc_ | heh |
| 01:52.19 | dc_ | hrm |
| 01:52.19 | dc_ | so |
| 01:52.27 | dc_ | I guess I'll order mine tomorrow :D |
| 01:53.24 | dc_ | hrmf.. |
| 01:53.28 | dc_ | which will I use more.. |
| 01:54.29 | dc_ | I can't say I'd use a camera 'that' much |
| 01:54.37 | dc_ | so I guess wifi cf card wins ;] |
| 01:57.39 | mallum | bedtime for me |
| 01:57.43 | mallum | g'night all |
| 01:57.44 | dc_ | :] |
| 01:57.45 | dc_ | ! |
| 02:02.36 | dc_ | sleep for me! |
| 02:36.26 | *** join/#gpe walters (walters@verbum.org) |
| 03:39.40 | *** join/#gpe smalone (~smalone@AC83F33C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 03:39.55 | smalone | Hi everybody |
| 03:40.25 | moray | smalone: although quite a few people are asleep |
| 03:40.29 | moray | (3.40 am here in the UK) |
| 03:40.38 | smalone | I see. |
| 03:40.46 | smalone | 9.40 in the USA |
| 03:41.28 | moray | well, several GPE developers (like me) are in the UK, and a few in Germany, etc. |
| 03:41.57 | moray | so you'll get more responses in some hours time |
| 03:43.28 | smalone | I see. |
| 03:43.42 | smalone | How hard is to develope for the GPE? |
| 03:44.23 | moray | fairly straightforward, though it depends what you compare it to ;) |
| 03:44.55 | moray | it's mostly plain GTK, however I know some people who don't get on with that... |
| 03:45.29 | smalone | Well for me I don't what GTK is? |
| 03:45.37 | smalone | How do I start? |
| 03:46.13 | moray | have you used GNOME? |
| 03:46.22 | moray | http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/ |
| 03:46.34 | smalone | Yes. on my linux laptop. |
| 03:46.40 | moray | GTK is the lower level toolkit beneath the GNOME environment |
| 03:47.09 | moray | e.g. the buttons are displayed by GTK, but the Nautilus stuff is above that in GNOME (and wouldn't fit on an ipaq) |
| 03:48.11 | moray | we're using GTK 2.2, so like you'd get in GNOME 2.2 (though the version numbers don't always tie up like that) |
| 03:48.23 | smalone | Ok. |
| 03:48.46 | moray | (GTK 2.0 documentation should work with GTK 2.2, there are just bugfixes and a few additions) |
| 03:48.53 | smalone | I haven't programmed in years. I don't have a clue on how to write a GUI for the ipaq. Where could I go? |
| 03:49.37 | moray | as well as that tutorial (http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/), you could try hacking about one of the existing applications |
| 03:49.52 | moray | you can get the code for the GPE applications out of CVS onto your laptop |
| 03:50.02 | moray | http://gpe.handhelds.org/cvs.shtml |
| 03:50.54 | moray | the applications should compile fine on your laptop for testing, assuming you install the development headers for the libraries |
| 03:51.20 | moray | (Debian -dev packages; in Red Hat I think they're called -devel) |
| 03:54.50 | smalone | ok |
| 04:04.22 | flypiper | moray: if it's 3:40 in the UK.. do you not ever sleep? |
| 04:05.03 | flypiper | err prolly 4 now |
| 04:05.26 | flypiper | ?? |
| 04:10.34 | moray | flypiper: oh, I sleep occasionally ;) |
| 04:10.55 | flypiper | moray: LOL... OK... you had me worried |
| 04:11.28 | moray | flypiper: although of course you don't know I'm not just a bot or something... |
| 04:12.15 | flypiper | moray: sure.. I guess the "something" ?? |
| 07:14.13 | *** join/#gpe jimhill (~jimhill@216.184.13.24.unused.swcp.com) |
| 09:55.24 | *** part/#gpe jimhill (~jimhill@216.184.13.24.unused.swcp.com) |
| 11:49.51 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 12:04.55 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-2-48-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 12:05.20 | dc_ | yay! |
| 12:21.37 | dc_ | time to order my c700 :DD |
| 12:24.51 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:24.59 | pb_ | afternoon |
| 12:25.04 | dc_ | pb_: !! |
| 12:25.10 | pb_ | dc_: !!! |
| 12:25.13 | dc_ | pb_: I get to order my c700 today, yay |
| 12:25.21 | pb_ | dc_: ah, cool! |
| 12:25.23 | dc_ | pb_: the 5450 is old now ;0 |
| 12:25.28 | pb_ | heh |
| 12:26.52 | dc_ | I'm ordering one with a spare battery, and a CF wifi card. |
| 12:27.08 | dc_ | which works out even cheaper than the 5450 |
| 12:27.11 | PaxAnima | morning |
| 12:27.21 | dc_ | and plus we get a huge resolution screen :D |
| 12:27.28 | dc_ | and a keyboard.. |
| 12:27.31 | dc_ | what fun |
| 12:27.33 | pb_ | yeah, sounds cool |
| 12:27.52 | pb_ | only drawback is you get hardly any memory. :-/ |
| 12:27.58 | PaxAnima | what's the size of the c700? |
| 12:28.10 | dc_ | smaller than the iPAQ aparently |
| 12:28.12 | PaxAnima | physical |
| 12:28.22 | dc_ | pb_: that's livable. |
| 12:28.22 | PaxAnima | oh |
| 12:28.28 | pb_ | dc_: indeed |
| 12:28.33 | dc_ | plus it has build in cf and sd |
| 12:28.44 | dc_ | so I can have an MMD in at the saem time as wifi |
| 12:28.53 | pb_ | yup |
| 12:37.40 | pb_ | did you order your APs and aerials, by the way? |
| 12:38.32 | dc_ | not as yet |
| 12:38.44 | dc_ | we need to wait untill the satellite is installed first. |
| 12:38.51 | dc_ | hopefully by the end of the week |
| 12:38.57 | pb_ | aha, right |
| 12:38.59 | dc_ | hrm |
| 12:39.05 | dc_ | next problem, wifi CF cards. |
| 12:39.41 | pb_ | yeah, I keep planning to buy a cf wifi card for myself, just never seem to get around to it. |
| 12:39.52 | pb_ | I've been kind of waiting for the SD ones to be released, I guess. |
| 12:39.54 | dc_ | hrm well, I need to chose one now. |
| 12:39.56 | dc_ | any idea. |
| 12:40.11 | pb_ | I think they're all much of a muchness. |
| 12:40.20 | dc_ | I have about 100 quid. |
| 12:40.23 | dc_ | so that should be enough. |
| 12:40.31 | pb_ | yeah, you should be able to get one for 60 or so I think. |
| 12:40.47 | pb_ | The Socket ones are reputedly best for power, but they are a bit over your budget - 120 quid or so from what I recall |
| 12:41.10 | dc_ | I can manage that |
| 12:41.16 | dc_ | expansys? |
| 12:41.22 | pb_ | http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=WL6001-356&asource= |
| 12:41.24 | pb_ | I think |
| 12:42.09 | pb_ | or one of the cheaper ones: http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=DCF-650W&asource= |
| 12:42.29 | dc_ | eww |
| 12:42.33 | dc_ | no socket defently |
| 12:42.46 | pb_ | heh |
| 12:42.55 | pb_ | yeah, the d-link is pretty vast. |
| 12:42.59 | dc_ | yep, I've got enough for won |
| 12:43.00 | dc_ | one. |
| 12:43.01 | dc_ | heh |
| 12:43.12 | dc_ | I have some problem with spelling on irc. |
| 12:43.15 | pb_ | :-} |
| 12:43.42 | dc_ | oh yay, and still enough for an MMC card. |
| 12:43.48 | pb_ | cool |
| 12:44.04 | pb_ | I guess the C700 would even do SD if you plan on using the sharp kernel. |
| 12:44.12 | dc_ | :\ |
| 12:44.27 | dc_ | bit eventualy it'd be nice to be using familiar, so.. |
| 12:44.40 | pb_ | right |
| 12:44.44 | dc_ | what's the main advantage over SD? |
| 12:44.53 | dc_ | encryption? |
| 12:44.59 | pb_ | just that SD cards tend to be cheaper and higher capacity |
| 12:45.05 | dc_ | hrmm |
| 12:45.12 | dc_ | lets ee. |
| 12:45.14 | dc_ | see. |
| 12:45.43 | pb_ | you can get at least 512MB SD, whereas MMC seems to top out at about 64-128MB |
| 12:45.52 | dc_ | that is trye |
| 12:45.53 | dc_ | true |
| 12:46.10 | pb_ | but the big SD cards are still pretty expensive, so that may not bother you so much. |
| 12:46.18 | pb_ | I only have a 32MB mmc :-} |
| 12:46.21 | dc_ | :} |
| 12:46.37 | dc_ | 128 MMC is only like 50 pounds nowday |
| 12:46.38 | dc_ | I think |
| 12:46.50 | pb_ | less than that even, it seems |
| 12:46.59 | pb_ | expansys are listing it at £36 |
| 12:47.13 | dc_ | cool |
| 12:47.33 | pb_ | which, in fact, is slightly cheaper than 128MB SD (at £37). so much for that idea. |
| 12:47.51 | dc_ | hehe |
| 12:49.58 | pb_ | I should get my finger out and try to make mmc work on the h3900, I suppose. |
| 12:50.13 | dc_ | you should :) |
| 12:50.52 | pb_ | maybe I can persuade some of the CRL guys to lend a hand with it. |
| 12:53.54 | pb_ | oh, it seems SD is also theoretically faster than MMC. |
| 12:54.10 | dc_ | that sounds like a plus |
| 12:54.15 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 12:54.20 | dc_ | last time I saw it in action it was pretty slow |
| 12:54.21 | dc_ | MMC |
| 12:54.22 | dc_ | that is |
| 12:54.42 | pb_ | however, if the C700 is using the pxa250 mmc controller for SD (which I suspect it is) it won't actually be any faster than mmc on those machines. |
| 12:54.52 | pb_ | apparently that's what the sl-5600 does, anyway. |
| 13:00.37 | dc_ | doh |
| 13:01.30 | pb_ | quite. but well, given that there isn't likely to be an open sd driver any time soon, it's all a bit academic. |
| 13:03.53 | pb_ | how long will your c700 take to arrive, by the way? |
| 13:04.01 | dc_ | 1 week aparently |
| 13:04.02 | dc_ | :) |
| 13:04.08 | dc_ | which is quite pleasing |
| 13:04.25 | pb_ | ah cool, so we should all be able to worship its screen on the 22nd. |
| 13:04.34 | dc_ | indeed :D |
| 13:04.36 | dc_ | the 22nd! |
| 13:04.45 | dc_ | hrm |
| 13:04.48 | dc_ | I do wonder. |
| 13:05.00 | dc_ | pb_: what's the deal with acommodation? |
| 13:05.35 | pb_ | dc_: well, I have a spare room at my house, you can stay here if you want. otherwise, Moray added a link to various places to stay on the wiki page. |
| 13:05.54 | dc_ | pb_: well, if you're offering the room :) |
| 13:06.02 | dc_ | pb_: it'd save me alot of money. |
| 13:06.13 | pb_ | dc_: sure. |
| 13:06.18 | dc_ | pb_: thanks :)) |
| 13:06.42 | dc_ | I guess I'll just catch a train up on friday after school. |
| 13:06.47 | dc_ | shouldn't be a problem |
| 13:06.48 | pb_ | sounds cool |
| 13:07.33 | pb_ | I think Nils and Florian are arriving on Friday too, possibly Colin as well. |
| 13:07.43 | dc_ | cool. |
| 13:07.51 | dc_ | what times are they aiming for? |
| 13:08.03 | pb_ | not sure yet. |
| 13:09.38 | pb_ | I'd guess probably around 8pm or so. I'll ask florian if he appears. |
| 13:09.45 | dc_ | sure |
| 13:10.02 | pb_ | then Jamey will be arriving sometime on the Sunday, not sure when yet. |
| 13:10.36 | dc_ | ah cool :) |
| 13:11.26 | pb_ | yeah, should be. |
| 13:12.22 | pb_ | then I think the CRL thing is two weeks later. |
| 13:17.02 | *** join/#gpe paul ([BHNALm063@s0.alphyra.bbnplanet.net) |
| 13:20.41 | pb_ | hi paul |
| 13:20.57 | paul | heya phil |
| 13:22.24 | paul | hmm... why is my ipaq connected to a wireless network - i'm in work, i've got the wlan iface configured with my home WEP key. |
| 13:23.08 | pb_ | I think it'll usually bind to an AP quite happily anyway, it just won't be able to send or receive anything. |
| 13:24.34 | paul | aha. |
| 13:25.20 | paul | but there isnt supposed to be wireless at our job. and if someone set it up, they should have asked us (network admin) first :) |
| 13:25.29 | pb_ | ah. heh. |
| 13:25.41 | paul | can anyone recc'd a good wireless sniffing programme for ipaq? :) |
| 13:25.45 | pb_ | maybe it's just in some other building nearby. |
| 13:25.47 | pb_ | kismet? |
| 13:26.10 | paul | could be, yes. |
| 13:26.22 | paul | we're beside an eircom depot. |
| 13:26.35 | pb_ | aha. |
| 13:26.50 | paul | pb_: btw, jg replied to xserver bugzilla - he reckons pixmaps. |
| 13:26.58 | pb_ | yeah, so I saw. |
| 13:27.04 | paul | pb_: so its dillo? |
| 13:27.08 | pb_ | could well be, yeah. |
| 13:27.16 | pb_ | I think we need the XRes extension to tell for sure. |
| 13:27.27 | paul | aye. |
| 13:27.51 | pb_ | fwiw, X on my ipaq isn't showing any excessive ram usage at the moment (and I haven't used dillo) |
| 13:28.23 | paul | same here. its fine if i dont dillo. |
| 13:28.52 | paul | still though, the Xserver could try be a bit more immune to bad apps. |
| 13:38.28 | paul | btw, which dhcp client is recc'd for use? |
| 13:38.42 | pb_ | I use dhcpcd, I think |
| 13:38.44 | paul | dhcpcd? pump? udch<something? |
| 13:38.51 | pb_ | pump is apparently really bad. |
| 13:39.01 | paul | i cant get it to work though (least not on my wlan iface) |
| 13:39.21 | pb_ | can't remember about udhclient. I think andersee would like us to use it, but people have had bad experiences. |
| 13:39.51 | pb_ | hm, dhcpcd works okay with my wlan. |
| 13:39.54 | paul | ifup forks and execs dhcpcd - but request never gets to the dhcp server. :( (AP bridges everything else, cant see why there'd be a problem with my AP not bridging dhcp packets) |
| 13:40.05 | pb_ | weird. |
| 13:40.13 | pb_ | have you tried running "dhcpcd wlan0" by hand, just to check? |
| 13:40.18 | paul | i dont think dhcpcd even sends a packet. :( |
| 13:40.23 | paul | hmm... |
| 13:40.48 | pb_ | maybe inspect ifconfig output as well, to see if packets are being sent. |
| 13:42.25 | paul | aha.. i think i dont AF_PACKET support |
| 13:42.38 | pb_ | ah. |
| 13:42.52 | pb_ | that'd certainly be a problem. |
| 13:44.07 | paul | bingo |
| 13:44.20 | pb_ | cool |
| 13:45.02 | paul | may i suggest af_packet is either added to /etc/modules by the dhcpcd ipkg, or that ifup modprobe's af_packet? |
| 13:45.11 | paul | hang on.. |
| 13:45.24 | paul | correct line in /etc/modules.conf would have fixed this for me. |
| 13:45.45 | paul | so may i suggest the correct alias be added to /etc/modules.conf :) |
| 13:46.24 | pb_ | sure. bugzilla. |
| 13:46.41 | pb_ | mark it as an 0.7 blocker, it sounds like quite a bad issue. |
| 13:46.51 | paul | k |
| 13:48.15 | paul | pb_: against which product? |
| 13:48.26 | paul | familiar? |
| 13:48.47 | pb_ | paul: packet-modules I guess |
| 13:59.13 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-33-42-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 15:49.50 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-167-53-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 16:45.27 | *** join/#gpe dc_ibook (~dctanner@modem-167-53-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 17:00.18 | pb_ | hrm |
| 17:00.23 | pb_ | this mmc documentation is the suck. |
| 17:06.12 | dc_ibook | ack |
| 17:06.13 | dc_ibook | :/ |
| 17:13.07 | paul | pb_: ah but sure, keep it at pb.. you'll get through it. |
| 17:13.37 | paul | (says he looking at the mmc slot on his 3970 and gleefully thinking "pb is writing the mmc drivers!! yeah!!!!" |
| 17:13.39 | paul | ) |
| 17:14.26 | pb_ | paul: heh |
| 17:14.40 | pb_ | paul: I think I need to get some help from Jamey tomorrow. |
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| 17:16.39 | paul | pb_: you can do it, you can do it! :) |
| 17:17.24 | paul | pb_: do the mmc devices appear as mtd's? |
| 17:18.06 | pb_ | no, just regular block devices. |
| 17:18.18 | paul | device does its own journalling? |
| 17:18.44 | pb_ | no, but you could run something like ext3 on top. |
| 17:19.12 | pb_ | some of them do their own wear-levelling; some don't. There seems to be a problem with patents in that area. |
| 17:19.20 | paul | sorry.. does its own block-remapping? |
| 17:19.29 | paul | hmm. nice. |
| 17:21.50 | paul | btw, bootldr 2.19.61 apparently has some support for 48MB ROMs. anyone know what'll happen if i upgrade my ipaq (currently with flash partitioned ala 32MB) to the 48MB supporting bootldr? |
| 17:22.27 | paul | will i just see another 16MB of flash past the asset partition, that i can just add a partition for? |
| 17:22.27 | pb_ | You need a kernel patch as well for Linux to actually see all 48MB. |
| 17:22.32 | paul | oh |
| 17:22.57 | pb_ | Once it's fully supported, though, it will appear unified with your existing 32MB partition, rather than separate. |
| 17:23.33 | paul | ok.. but will it 'destroy' what i presently have in the 32MB part? |
| 17:23.49 | pb_ | No, though some caution will be needed. |
| 17:23.59 | paul | is the extra 16MB in 2 seperate 8MB flashes? |
| 17:24.15 | pb_ | I think so, though I don't remember for sure. |
| 17:24.37 | pb_ | It might be one single device. |
| 17:24.46 | paul | i wouldnt have minded the 16MB being a seperate device.. (if they were physically so) |
| 17:24.47 | paul | # |
| 17:24.48 | paul | :) |
| 17:25.30 | pb_ | It's physically separate from the first 32MB. |
| 17:28.33 | paul | presumably some hacking was needed to get the 2 devices appear as contigious flash? (and if so, why not put such support in jffs2 instead?) |
| 17:28.45 | pb_ | The mtd_concat driver does that. |
| 17:28.49 | paul | ah |
| 17:29.27 | paul | right.. smoke and fix a community list bug in bgpd. |
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| 17:37.07 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-121-50-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 17:55.29 | *** join/#gpe moray (ca3f4a9865@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) |
| 18:04.26 | *** join/#gpe dc___ (~dc@modem-212-54-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 18:04.35 | *** join/#gpe dc___ibook (~dctanner@modem-212-54-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 18:15.43 | dc___ibook | wahay, devhelp for gtk2 |
| 18:20.31 | dc___ibook | arg |
| 18:20.31 | dc___ibook | need to upgrade gtk |
| 18:20.31 | dc___ibook | how borrrring |
| 18:20.45 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 18:38.07 | *** join/#gpe moray (88a1afd5e5@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) |
| 18:40.58 | *** join/#gpe walters (walters@verbum.org) |
| 19:23.00 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@p50929B86.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:23.39 | florian | hi all! |
| 19:23.45 | pb_ | hi florian! |
| 19:32.26 | paul | hi florian |
| 19:33.06 | pb_ | florian: did you guys book your flights to England for this meeting? |
| 19:34.53 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@p50929B86.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 20:10.56 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:33.29 | pb_ | florian: gpe-conf is segfaulting on my ipaq at the moment; any ideas what might be wrong there? |
| 20:36.40 | florian | pb_: not really, but i found a critical bug in file handling yesterday... which module? |
| 20:36.54 | pb_ | florian: I tried time and users. |
| 20:36.55 | spung | anyone familiar with gtk+'s guts? |
| 20:37.20 | pb_ | florian: in fact, all seem to be affected. I just tried theme and sleep also. |
| 20:37.48 | pb_ | ~ $ gpe-conf theme |
| 20:37.51 | pb_ | Segmentation fault |
| 20:37.53 | pb_ | ~ $ cmd: " ", pid 1526 |
| 20:38.08 | florian | hu... is this current cvs status? |
| 20:38.34 | pb_ | florian: latest in unstable |
| 20:39.24 | florian | hmm... this is quite old, but should not segfault. |
| 20:41.35 | florian | http://www.handhelds.org/~florian/gpe-conf2_0.0.8-1-pre2_arm.ipk |
| 20:42.05 | pb_ | thanks |
| 20:42.08 | florian | try this one... |
| 20:45.02 | pb_ | hrm, seems the same. |
| 20:45.09 | pb_ | maybe my system is broken in some way. |
| 20:48.35 | florian | hmm, i had an effect like this yesterday... after some tests with gpe-conf theme no more gtk application wanted to start... |
| 20:48.51 | florian | after a reboot everything was ok |
| 20:50.58 | paul | pb_: if i were to look through the dillo source for any possible use of persistent pixmaps, how would i recognise it (i know nothing about XLib)? is there a flag or function i can grep for? |
| 20:52.06 | paul | pb_: i reckon finding a good malloc lib that did free list merging and heap shrinking and linking Xipaq to it might be the true solution. |
| 21:09.58 | pb_ | paul: I'm not sure, you'd have to ask the X-Men. |
| 21:10.33 | pb_ | florian: okay, I'll try rebooting and see if that changes anything |
| 21:12.27 | pb_ | no, still segfaults. |
| 21:12.30 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 21:15.20 | florian | ok, i'll update my ipaq to current unstable and try to investigate that tomorrow morning |
| 21:15.44 | pb_ | cool, thanks |
| 21:44.53 | florian | good night |
| 22:05.48 | *** join/#gpe dc___ (~dc@modem-212-56-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 22:06.31 | pb_ | ibot, botmail for cmarqu: we seem to have two competing copies of spacing.h, one in libgpewidget and one in libgpewidget/gpe; any idea what the story is with those? |
| 22:10.49 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-21-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 22:11.29 | mallum | hey |
| 22:12.04 | pb_ | hi mallum |
| 22:12.42 | jg | pb_, mallum: hi... |
| 22:12.54 | pb_ | jg: evening |
| 22:13.10 | jg | evening.... |
| 22:13.20 | jg | playing with my new motherboard.... |
| 22:13.29 | jg | I hate IDE.... |
| 22:13.35 | pb_ | ah, yes :-/ |
| 22:14.14 | jg | wasted an hour or two getting the disks jumpered properly, and I didn't realize it mattered which connector went into which drive.... |
| 22:14.21 | mallum | jg: turns out the zaurus c700 does have a graohics chips in it |
| 22:14.31 | pb_ | jg: it doesn't usually. |
| 22:14.47 | jg | mallum: what chip? |
| 22:14.52 | mallum | jg: atim w100 |
| 22:14.59 | mallum | jg: arg I mean ATI w100 |
| 22:15.15 | jg | mallum: I have no idea if we have support for it.... |
| 22:15.20 | mallum | jg: looks like the toshiba's have it as well |
| 22:15.22 | jg | the 5400 uses a different one... |
| 22:15.41 | mallum | jg: who makes the one in that ? |
| 22:16.16 | jg | I forget, but not ati. |
| 22:16.22 | jg | I just got a kid interrupt... |
| 22:16.28 | jg | bbl (I hope). |
| 22:16.30 | mallum | hehe |
| 22:16.40 | pb_ | mediaq, I think |
| 22:17.22 | mallum | pb_: I dont think qtopia utalizes it at all, if it does it must be very crappy |
| 22:18.03 | pb_ | I dunno if qt/e has any support for acceleration at all. The opie guys would probably know. |
| 22:19.53 | pb_ | I think http://www.mediaq.com/products/mq1000.html#MQ1100 is the chip in the h5400. |
| 22:22.33 | mallum | pb_: http://www.ati.com/technology/hardware/imageon100/features.html |
| 22:22.42 | mallum | pb_: note the very last feature |
| 22:23.51 | pb_ | ah, does that mean qt/e? |
| 22:24.23 | mallum | pb_: yeah Im not sure |
| 22:24.31 | mallum | pb_: I think I will mail ati |
| 22:37.32 | cmarqu | Hey! |
| 22:37.38 | dc___ | mallum: cool. |
| 22:37.47 | dc___ | mallum: hopefully I'll get my money for mine tomorro |
| 22:37.49 | dc___ | w |
| 22:37.51 | pb_ | cmarqu: ah, you return! |
| 22:38.02 | cmarqu | Indeed. |
| 22:38.07 | dc___ | hey cmarqu |
| 22:38.09 | pb_ | How was the event? |
| 22:38.53 | cmarqu | Was cool. I guess too newbie oriented overall to give us many new users. |
| 22:38.56 | dc___ | mallum: wow, so it has font aa and stuff |
| 22:39.21 | dc___ | mallum: and alpha blending :} |
| 22:39.29 | pb_ | cmarqu: Ah, right. |
| 22:39.42 | cmarqu | But I saw at least one person with OPIE on his iPAQ keeping a flyer. :) |
| 22:39.49 | pb_ | Heh :-) |
| 22:40.00 | dc___ | cmarqu: goood :D |
| 22:40.15 | cmarqu | The flyers seemed to go away from the tables, I hope not just into the trash. |
| 22:40.25 | pb_ | How many did you make? |
| 22:41.15 | cmarqu | I don't even know. It was a stack of about 3 centimetres. |
| 22:41.30 | cmarqu | 300 maybe. |
| 22:41.34 | pb_ | Right, cool. |
| 22:41.58 | dc___ | cmarqu: nice :) |
| 22:42.34 | cmarqu | I couldn't get my WLAN going with the dhcp there before power ran out, need to investigate. |
| 22:42.51 | cmarqu | I see you had such a discussion with paul already |
| 22:43.05 | pb_ | I was just reading the GUADEC call for papers earlier today. Any volunteers to do a talk about GPE there? |
| 22:43.27 | pb_ | cmarqu: Ah, yes, his af_packet problems. I've amended the ipkg-building script in CVS, so that should be fixed next time Jamey makes a kernel release. |
| 22:43.30 | cmarqu | I volunteer to update the flyers at least. |
| 22:43.59 | pb_ | That's a good start :-) |
| 22:44.02 | cmarqu | pb_: Ah, okay. I may have a different problem though. |
| 22:44.32 | pb_ | Right. |
| 22:46.15 | moray | hi people (I'm still going to be very busy this next week I fear) |
| 22:46.20 | pb_ | hi moray |
| 22:46.24 | cmarqu | Hi moray |
| 22:46.47 | pb_ | moray: must be the end of term soon? |
| 22:47.07 | moray | pb_: we're in 7th week now (out of 8) |
| 22:47.12 | pb_ | right. |
| 22:47.19 | moray | I have one random exam thing at the end of term (most start of next term) |
| 22:47.28 | pb_ | ah, I see |
| 22:47.32 | moray | and some random essays etc. to hand in a bit after term finishes :/ |
| 22:49.02 | *** join/#gpe jg_ (~jg@dialup-63.214.108.122.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) |
| 22:49.54 | moray | pb_: just trying to get sorted out what questions I'm going to ask my Prolog supervisees for their last supervision ;) |
| 22:50.23 | pb_ | Ah, Prolog! |
| 22:52.08 | moray | pb_: and some of them have the nerve to ask what the point is! ;) |
| 22:52.16 | pb_ | moray: Kids, huh? |
| 22:54.30 | PaxAnima | moray: why prolog, of all things? |
| 22:54.39 | PaxAnima | moray: got any fancy AI stuff? ;) |
| 22:55.19 | moray | PaxAnima: hm, like what? actually, the AI type stuff I'm interested in doesn't really fit into the Prolog view of the world anyway |
| 22:55.54 | PaxAnima | moray: did you plan to use prolog to something usefull? |
| 22:56.50 | moray | PaxAnima: no, that was just a joke to be honest, because I'm doing some Prolog teaching this term |
| 22:57.24 | PaxAnima | moray: ah... I've used prolog, once upon a time |
| 22:57.50 | moray | PaxAnima: I quite like Prolog, but it's true that I can't think of many situations where I'd choose to use it |
| 22:59.27 | PaxAnima | I'ved used prolog in some AI courses I've had... |
| 23:00.57 | moray | PaxAnima: yes, but it only works for symbolic AI problems, which I don't find all that interesting |
| 23:01.31 | PaxAnima | me neither |
| 23:01.32 | moray | PaxAnima: (although, as I suggested, I find it quite fun to think how to use Prolog to solve things for the sake of it) |
| 23:20.15 | pigeon | the year |
| 23:20.40 | dc___ | :[ |
| 23:20.41 | dc___ | hrmmm |
| 23:20.56 | dc___ | someone stealing my wlan! |
| 23:21.02 | PaxAnima | heh |
| 23:21.12 | pb_ | dc___: rooted! |
| 23:21.47 | dc___ | I hope that's not the case. |
| 23:22.14 | dc___ | pb_: could it just be ehh trying to ehh find clients or something more modest than offering services to outsiders! |
| 23:22.33 | moray | dc___: you'll go up into the attic and find that the mice are sitting chatting on irc over 802.11b |
| 23:22.39 | pb_ | dc___: APs don't tend to go out and proactively look for clients. |
| 23:22.55 | dc___ | moray: :) |
| 23:22.58 | moray | pb_: although they may broadcast their presence? |
| 23:22.58 | dc___ | most likely |
| 23:23.43 | dc___ | it seem to be flashing at the exact same time my desktop and firewall are flashing aswell |
| 23:23.52 | pb_ | moray: yeah, they send out beacons all the time, but that's a sufficiently routine event that it doesn't cause them to flash their LEDs. |
| 23:24.52 | pb_ | dc___: now there's a coincidence. |
| 23:25.08 | dc___ | ! |
| 23:25.14 | moray | pb_: right, the only normal APs I've used have been run by other people and generally not visible; on my own networks I've just used the hostap stuff / ad-hoc |
| 23:49.09 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@62.60.121.173) |
| 23:54.46 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-93-44-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 23:58.08 | cmarqu | Night. |
| 23:58.13 | pigeon | nite cmarqu |
| 23:58.14 | pb_ | night cmarqu |
