| 00:16.07 | dan_t | good night guys |
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| 01:53.55 | gdsx | where can I find the tgz from which the bootgpe image was made? (for 0.6.1) |
| 01:54.27 | gdsx | I've looked in ftp://handhelds.org/familiar/releases/v0.6.1/install/ and only bootopie-version.tar.gz exists |
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| 10:52.05 | mallum | hey |
| 10:52.26 | mallum | this is really not good -> http://www.gnomedesktop.org/article.php?sid=962 |
| 10:56.29 | PaxAnima | mallum: well, better make a multisync plugin then ;) |
| 10:56.53 | pb_ | mallum: hm, what's bad about that? |
| 10:57.42 | moray | so presumably we now be aiming for something that talks to this MultiSync thing, for synchronisation with GNOME |
| 10:58.30 | pb_ | well, evo != gnome. I think kitchensync also works with evo. |
| 10:58.31 | PaxAnima | the idea behind multisync is brilliant, so why not? |
| 10:59.56 | pb_ | no reason not to; just needs someone to, like, do it. |
| 11:00.08 | moray | pb_: well yes :) |
| 11:01.33 | mallum | pb_: well , its removes some incentive from people already using Linux on the desktop to switch there ipaq to Linux as well |
| 11:05.47 | PaxAnima | too bad multisync isn't all that documented |
| 11:06.11 | pb_ | That might be true. But, on the other hand, it would provide an incentive for people to switch from Outlook to Evolution on the desktop, which seems like a good thing. |
| 11:08.08 | mallum | pb_: yes for people suffering lookout its very good |
| 11:11.07 | PaxAnima | mallum: ;) |
| 11:11.22 | pb_ | PaxAnima: prior to worrying about multisync or whatever, I think the first thing to do would be to actually implement a sync interface on the ipaq side for it to talk to. |
| 11:13.40 | PaxAnima | how is the DB schema? |
| 11:13.41 | mallum | pb_: does libeventdb provide part of that ? |
| 11:14.57 | pb_ | mallum: you could use libeventdb for that, though it wasn't necessarily the intention. |
| 11:18.37 | PaxAnima | in my psPIM, I had simple sync between two instances of the PIM using tcp.. but I guess the way I did it is dependant of my DB schema |
| 11:20.28 | PaxAnima | where do I find the DB schema for GE? |
| 11:20.32 | PaxAnima | GPE |
| 11:25.22 | pb_ | I think there is some stuff on the GPE website. |
| 11:26.03 | cmarqu_werk | How can we score up the guy who mentioned GPE in a comment to the SynCE article? |
| 11:27.57 | pb_ | In the simplest case, an external sync interface might just be a way of exposing an SQL command interface through a socket with SASL, and have all the intelligence in the host plugin. |
| 11:34.06 | cmarqu_werk | If I tell people knowing Linux what GPE is, I say: "Gnome for PDAs". Would that be okay to use on a flyer for GPE, i.e. in http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/GPEMarketing? Or is it an oversimplification? |
| 11:35.36 | pb_ | That's how I tend to describe it too. I haven't been able to come up with a better description in that many words. |
| 11:37.05 | pb_ | Except, maybe "handhelds" rather than "PDAs". |
| 11:39.28 | cmarqu_werk | Yeah, okay. I'll use that then, space is limited. |
| 11:40.10 | cmarqu_werk | In Germany, computer mags tend to use "PDA" more than "handheld", that's why I'm using it often :) |
| 11:44.21 | pb_ | Ah, fair enough :-) |
| 11:45.06 | pb_ | For some people, "PDA" has rather specific connotations that we don't necessarily want to invoke - it tends to conjure up images of old Palm and Psion machines with 16MHz processors and monochrome displays. |
| 11:58.51 | cmarqu_werk | Right. |
| 11:59.56 | pb_ | But tailoring the exact words to suit your audience is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. |
| 12:00.42 | cmarqu_werk | I'll check again in the mags. |
| 12:00.53 | pb_ | Cool. |
| 12:01.00 | cmarqu_werk | Was there somebody working on OpenZaurus packages? |
| 12:01.06 | pb_ | I'll see if I can think of anything else for you to put in there, too. |
| 12:01.18 | pb_ | I don't think anybody is actively working on GPE-on-OZ right now. |
| 12:01.34 | moray | cmarqu_werk: I moderated up the GPE-mentioning guy ;) |
| 12:01.58 | cmarqu_werk | moray: Cool. I didn't want to get an account there just for that. |
| 12:03.51 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: I plan to get some decent X stuff together for OZ, as soon as 4.3 is released / my z arrives |
| 12:04.17 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: once that is in place I dont think it would be too much work to then add in gpe |
| 12:06.26 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: Great. So I'll put "OpenZaurus support upcoming." back there again :) |
| 12:07.39 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: yeah, though I guess somebody that knows the gpe build system will have to do the actual gpe integration |
| 12:08.19 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: but once X is there, the familiar gpe ipkgs may just work ( though thats not really integration into OZ ) |
| 12:10.32 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: btw it is possible to add pixmaped borders to a dialog with no title |
| 12:11.05 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: Im just a bit concerned about it being bloat/crackrot |
| 12:13.36 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: though I guess its not major bloat, if you can suggest uses for it other than just the logout dialog |
| 12:15.05 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: most apps like gkrellm ( *spit* ) that dont want a titlebar, dont wont borders either |
| 12:16.04 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: Well, the logout dialog is done with the generic gpe-question app, so it might have other uses, even though I'm not sure if there actually is another place where it is called. |
| 12:17.15 | pb_ | The "Add default applications to the dock?" dialog uses it too. |
| 12:17.31 | pb_ | And I think there are several applications that use gpe_question_ask internally, rather than via the gpe-question binary. |
| 12:17.39 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: whats the rational for a question dialog not having a titlebar ? |
| 12:18.31 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: surely if a dialog is asking you a question you may want to drag it out of the way to check info on it parent window ? without a titlebar you wont be able to do that |
| 12:19.10 | pb_ | The dialogs in question don't have any parent window, they are standalone. |
| 12:20.02 | cmarqu_werk | Maybe we just need a theme that looks nice with an empty title bar. |
| 12:21.54 | mallum | pb_: ok |
| 12:22.13 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: can the titlebar not just say 'Question ?' |
| 12:24.56 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: a titlebar with no text just looks like something is broke to me |
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| 12:33.09 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: The HIG says it should not have any title. Distracts less from the text in the dialog. |
| 12:33.27 | flypiper | pb_: you were right about your pb10 image.. it suspened 2 times for me fine... now it just turns the backlight off. it suspends from the bootldr without battery activity:( |
| 12:33.41 | pb_ | flypiper: doh. |
| 12:34.05 | pb_ | flypiper: if you can live without sound, I think removing the alsa modules from /etc/modules and rebooting will clear it up. |
| 12:34.27 | flypiper | pb_: I will try that tonight.. |
| 12:43.40 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: do you have a link to this in the HIG ? |
| 12:46.18 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: it would be easy for me to make the [x] button dissapear on a dialog , like whats shown on the screenshots in the HIG - would that be enough ? |
| 12:49.02 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/windows.html#alert-spacing |
| 12:49.36 | cmarqu_werk | If the [x] button is not there, the title bar is even emptier :) |
| 12:50.34 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: yeah thats what they look like in the HIG |
| 12:50.53 | cmarqu_werk | I don't know, and I am okay with what we have right now. |
| 12:51.28 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: The HIG screenshots have the button on the left, that makes them not as empty. |
| 12:51.32 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: oh ok, well removing the [x] is about 3 lines of code so no problem if you want it done |
| 12:52.21 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: I just need to know what the specific borders only hint is |
| 12:52.29 | cmarqu_werk | Might be worth it. |
| 12:52.56 | cmarqu_werk | I only found what GDK calls it. |
| 12:53.33 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: ok if you tell me where thsat is I can figure it out from there |
| 13:00.39 | cmarqu_werk | I posted the name yesterday... uh... let me find it again. |
| 13:02.23 | cmarqu_werk | GDK_DECOR_BORDER |
| 13:03.27 | cmarqu_werk | http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/gdk/gdk-windows.html |
| 14:09.56 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: okey, I need to find out what X Atom that maps too though |
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| 15:33.03 | jg | pb_: where do I find your gtk cross development kit? I'm setting up my laptop to be able to development again, and might as well take it for a spin.... |
| 15:39.51 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: would the logout dialog not look better like this -> http://handhelds.org/scap/port.24677.png ( notice lowlighted background ) |
| 15:42.58 | mallum | jg: pb's toolchain stuff is here http://handhelds.org/~pb/deb-toolchain.html |
| 15:44.19 | jg | mallum: is that just X/GTK, or a whole toolchain? |
| 15:44.31 | jg | mallum: what have you been using? |
| 15:46.28 | mallum | jg: thats just the toolchain but its special as it allows you to install debs from another arch |
| 15:47.07 | mallum | jg: I use my own toolchain built from some instructions I found on the linux-arm list |
| 15:47.16 | mallum | jg: but for gtk stuff I compile natively |
| 15:48.32 | mallum | jg: on my CATS machine |
| 15:56.49 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: It would in the case that gpe-question is used as the logout dialog. I'm not so sure about other applications. When are you setting the lowlighted background? When a dialog is modal? |
| 15:59.58 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: its an experimental switch to matchbox at the moment |
| 16:00.21 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: matchbox -use_lowlight yes|#rrggbbaa |
| 16:01.06 | cmarqu_werk | Well, it might be nice for modal dialogs. And as gpe-question is modal, it would just automatically work. |
| 16:01.23 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: and then its currently done to all dialogs presently |
| 16:03.09 | cmarqu_werk | Of course, it should still allow you to pull up xkbd and minipredict etc. (for the Dillo example), so it should not block everything (or look like it blocked everything). |
| 16:07.25 | jg | mallum: if you package up the Vera fonts, I can have them put on gnome.org so we can add a feed and download them easily.... |
| 16:10.01 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: it will only work if it blocks _everything_ :( |
| 16:16.52 | mallum | jg: Im pretty busy with matchbox stuff at the mo .... |
| 16:18.03 | jg | mallum: ok. |
| 16:18.32 | jg | mallum: maybe I can talk someone else into it... I'm a bit busy myself.... Losing a couple months again is not my idea of fun... |
| 16:23.10 | mallum | jg: I can prolly do it later this evening , I noticed somebody has packaged up diffs to make debs out of them |
| 16:23.33 | mallum | jg: I am in mit-shm land at the moment |
| 16:23.40 | jg | mallum: sure. |
| 16:24.00 | jg | mallum: who has made deb's out of them" |
| 16:24.03 | jg | ? |
| 16:28.01 | mallum | jg: http://people.debian.org/~michaelf/ttf-bitstream-vera/ |
| 16:28.25 | mallum | jg: note he hasn't actually made debs, just the diff to the source to then make debs |
| 16:28.29 | mallum | jg: hes not actually distrubuting them |
| 16:28.56 | mallum | jg: doh xnest does not support mit-shm :( |
| 16:31.51 | mallum | jg: Also I got the zaurus today from nelson, so I plan to checkout tslib on that v.soon |
| 16:32.03 | jg | mallum: good. |
| 16:32.43 | mallum | jg: Im kind of crossing my fingers 4.3 gets released at the end of the week so I can use that |
| 16:32.54 | mallum | jg: and add it to the OZ buildroot |
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| 16:38.13 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@dialin-145-254-098-130.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:38.17 | florian | hi all |
| 16:38.24 | pb_ | hi florian |
| 16:38.26 | mallum | hey florian |
| 16:39.01 | cmarqu_werk | Hi florian |
| 16:39.27 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Please criticise http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/GPEMarketing |
| 16:43.03 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: you should hype / explain the X Stuff a bit more |
| 16:43.29 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: it probably safe to say 4.3 / tinyX / randr / render / fontconfig etc |
| 16:43.41 | jg | mallum: and migration!!!!! |
| 16:44.18 | jg | mallum: cmarqu_werk: migration deserves explanation and a serious plug.... |
| 16:44.31 | cmarqu_werk | jg: I am already mentioning migration there :) |
| 16:44.35 | florian | cmarqu_werk: hey, this looks cool! |
| 16:44.47 | florian | oops... |
| 16:44.52 | pb_ | heh |
| 16:45.08 | jg | cmarqu_werk: most people won't understand what you mean or its significance without explanation.... |
| 16:45.14 | mallum | jg: yes but thats a gtk2.2 thing, which I think is already mentioned |
| 16:45.55 | mallum | so mit-shm is working pretty good http://handhelds.org/scap/port.32244.png |
| 16:45.59 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 16:46.06 | cmarqu_werk | Argh. |
| 16:46.19 | cmarqu_werk | jg: I'm alrady mentioning migration there. |
| 16:46.39 | florian | cmarqu_werk: hey, this looks cool! (repeated) |
| 16:46.50 | jg | cmarqu_werk: yes, you are, but the significance will be lost on most people.... |
| 16:47.32 | jg | cmarqu_werk: that the apps can run to their desktop to be used with a real keyboard and display is not something most people expect out of a PDA.... |
| 16:47.52 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: just put 'like emacs make-frame-on-display command' ;-) |
| 16:48.21 | cmarqu_werk | :) |
| 16:48.37 | jg | ;-) |
| 16:48.54 | cmarqu_werk | I'll have to see how much of it I can cramp on a small leaflet. |
| 16:49.04 | pb_ | cmarqu_werk: use small writing :-) |
| 16:49.20 | jg | pb_: vera works very well at small sizes :-). |
| 16:50.22 | cmarqu_werk | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:50.32 | jg | sounds good. |
| 16:50.35 | cmarqu_werk | Would that be understandabel? |
| 16:50.39 | cmarqu_werk | Okay. |
| 16:50.41 | jg | yup.... |
| 16:50.53 | pb_ | cmarqu_werk: sounds good to me. |
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| 16:51.42 | mallum | cmarqu: why not 'Xserver enabled computers' rather than 'displays' ? |
| 16:51.43 | pb_ | hi paul |
| 16:52.54 | cmarqu_werk | jg: I can package Vera if you want, but I'd need some input (like: do we want to rely on xft2 to create oblique version for all fonts?) |
| 16:54.00 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: because it is three words instead of one :) |
| 16:54.39 | cmarqu_werk | "to other X displays" -- would that be correct enough? |
| 16:54.49 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: yeah that would be better I think |
| 16:55.18 | cmarqu_werk | * X Window System: XFree86 4.3/tinyX with the Render and the Resize and Rotate extensions |
| 16:55.36 | cmarqu_werk | Does "X Window System" need a [tm] after it? |
| 16:55.37 | florian | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.11432.png |
| 16:55.37 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: remember to cover the flyer with crappy clipart |
| 16:55.56 | pb_ | cmarqu_werk: that reads a bit clumsily. maybe remove the "the" before "render" and "resize". |
| 16:55.59 | mallum | florian: very nice! |
| 16:56.18 | cmarqu_werk | mallum: I'll have to use my own b/w/ laser printer, no pics or anything like that I fear |
| 16:56.39 | mallum | cmarqu_werk: bummer |
| 16:56.40 | pb_ | cmarqu_werk: otherwise it is tempting to parse it as with (the Render) and (the Resize and Rotate extensions). |
| 16:56.51 | cmarqu_werk | florian: Wow, cool. |
| 16:57.18 | cmarqu_werk | pb_: Ok. |
| 16:58.32 | cmarqu_werk | "* GStreamer multimedia framework" -- I hope the GStreamer guys are okay with that. |
| 16:59.04 | pb_ | cmarqu_werk: I'm sure they'd be happy with it, but you could ask in #gstreamer to make sure. |
| 16:59.55 | cmarqu_werk | Will do. I also replaced "right-to-left text" with "bidirectional text". |
| 17:00.56 | mallum | cmarqu: are you mentioning 'fontconfig and xft2 subpixel AA font support' ? |
| 17:01.18 | cmarqu_werk | Indirectly. |
| 17:02.07 | mallum | freedesktop.org standards support ? |
| 17:04.05 | cmarqu_werk | Not yet. |
| 17:06.18 | cmarqu_werk | "* freedesktop.org standards support (XSETTINGS, D-BUS)" -- am I lying about D-BUS still? :) -- and what else from freedesktop.org? |
| 17:06.55 | mallum | yes lying about D-BUS |
| 17:07.46 | mallum | Extended Window Manager Hints Spec ( EWMH ) |
| 17:07.46 | mallum | http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/wm-spec.html |
| 17:07.46 | mallum | Desktop Entries. |
| 17:07.46 | mallum | http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/desktop-entry-spec.html |
| 17:07.46 | mallum | XEMBED. |
| 17:07.47 | mallum | http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/xembed.html |
| 17:07.49 | mallum | System Tray Protocol. |
| 17:07.51 | mallum | http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/systemtray.html |
| 17:07.53 | mallum | Startup Notification. |
| 17:07.55 | mallum | http://www.freedesktop.org/software/startup-notification/ |
| 17:07.57 | mallum | XSETTINGS |
| 17:07.59 | mallum | http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/xsettings/xsettings.htm |
| 17:08.01 | mallum | sorry to spam |
| 17:08.11 | mallum | and new matchbox has support for ICON spec / gnome style themeing |
| 17:08.21 | mallum | but its having troubles at the moment |
| 17:09.12 | cmarqu_werk | Okay, I'll just paste that to the wiki for now. Need to go home. |
| 17:09.24 | cmarqu_werk | Feel free to change things yourself. |
| 17:09.27 | cmarqu_werk | BBL |
| 17:10.09 | *** part/#gpe cmarqu_werk (www@vws1.kens.com) |
| 17:11.52 | mallum | cmarqu: though we kind of abuse XSETTINGS, so Im not sure if thats worth mentioning .. |
| 17:39.23 | cmarqu | mallum: Is there a short phrase for matchbox being "one maximized main window at a time"? |
| 17:40.28 | mallum | cmarqu: hmm restrained window management is the best phrase I've come up with |
| 17:42.02 | cmarqu | Hmm. I guess that would not help people understand it unless they have seen it. |
| 17:42.14 | cmarqu | Not Germans anyway. |
| 17:46.54 | mallum | cmarqu: pda style window management ? |
| 17:48.29 | cmarqu | "* Matchbox, a lightweight window manager designed for embedded devices"? |
| 17:51.38 | mallum | cmarqu: sounds good |
| 17:58.33 | jg | cmarqu: I think that Xft will "do the right thing"; if you ask for an oblique font, and it is installed, it will use it; if not, it will oblique the font for you. |
| 18:00.48 | cmarqu | jg: question is: do you consider the automatic obliqueing good enough for us to save the space for the oblique font versions? |
| 18:00.51 | jg | cmarqu: Xft won't tell you that an obliqued font exists that does not exist.... |
| 18:01.06 | jg | cmarqu: I suspect so, but we should try it as see.... |
| 18:01.32 | cmarqu | jg: Okay. We can easily have a "full" and a "light" package. |
| 18:01.38 | jg | cmarqu: AA covers alot of sins: but the obliquing destroys the hinting, so it may not be adaquate at small sizes.... |
| 18:03.50 | cmarqu | jg: I'm also a bit unsure about the version numbering. The tarball is already saying "1.0" -- how would I differentiate between the beta phase fonts and the "final" release? |
| 18:05.43 | jg | cmarqu: the TrueType version number wll be incremented; and the tar ball will match. Xft will use the latest version (according to the TT version numbering). The beta fonts were already numbered 1.0. |
| 18:06.09 | jg | cmarqu: you may not have been aware that TT fonts had internal version numbers :-). |
| 18:08.12 | cmarqu | jg: Right. :) So I can safely call the package verattf_1.0 even for the beta fonts. |
| 18:08.55 | jg | cmarqu: yeah, the version number of the tarball matches the internal version number of the fonts, which is why I chose that version number.... |
| 18:09.03 | cmarqu | Good. |
| 18:09.42 | jg | cmarqu: you aren't the first person to be surprised by the version number, but I decided that having them different would be even worse... |
| 18:10.16 | cmarqu | What's the canonical location for fonts these days? The Luxi package uses /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ttf/ |
| 18:10.38 | jg | /usr/share/fonts is the canonical location for fonts... |
| 18:10.43 | cmarqu | Okay. |
| 18:10.55 | jg | In theory, only X specific fonts should go in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts.... |
| 18:11.16 | cmarqu | Should I bother with a 'fonts.scale' file at all? |
| 18:11.19 | jg | fonts for general use should go in /usr/share/fonts. |
| 18:11.29 | jg | cmarqu: yes, so that they can be used by the core server.... |
| 18:11.33 | cmarqu | Okay. |
| 18:18.03 | jg | cmarqu: also note that you want an aliases file so that apps built for the gpe1 environment can still run without installing the bitmap fonts.... |
| 18:18.19 | cmarqu | Ah, okay. |
| 18:32.09 | jg | mallum, pb_: I just installed pb's latest (10) base, and ran the postinst script.... But I end up with fuzzy text in the file manager.... What font is getting used? I |
| 18:32.52 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@62.60.121.189) |
| 18:33.04 | dc_ | chemistry coursework time :\ |
| 18:33.05 | jg | mallum: a truely obsolete /etc/fonts/fonts.conf file is on familiar.... |
| 18:33.18 | pb_ | jg: do "xst read", see what Gtk/FontName is set to. |
| 18:33.19 | jg | mallum: and we should also provide a local.conf that recognizes vera. |
| 18:33.23 | dc_ | hey pb_, mallum, jg |
| 18:33.25 | pb_ | dc_: yo! |
| 18:33.31 | dc_ | :} |
| 18:33.35 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima_ (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 18:33.47 | mallum | hey dc_ |
| 18:33.53 | *** join/#gpe florian (~fuchs@pD9E5FB1C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:33.58 | florian | hi all! |
| 18:34.01 | jg | mallum, pb_: Imay be wrong... |
| 18:34.14 | jg | mallum: we should definately add a local.conf file. |
| 18:34.42 | jg | pb_: it says "Sans 8" |
| 18:34.49 | dc_ | obviously I'm seen as a highly intelligent man on the internet. |
| 18:34.59 | pb_ | jg: ok, in that case it will be in the hands of your fonts.conf/local.conf I guess. |
| 18:35.12 | dc_ | yet another embedded job application form from remond this time. |
| 18:35.17 | pb_ | jg: you can experiment with e.g. xst write Gtk/FontName str "Bitstream Vera 8" to see if that improves matters. |
| 18:35.19 | dc_ | redmond. |
| 18:35.25 | pb_ | dc_: congratulations |
| 18:35.52 | dc_ | hopefully this means I won't have too much trouble finding a job. |
| 18:35.54 | dc_ | hehe. |
| 18:36.40 | jg | pb_: haven't installed vera. |
| 18:36.47 | jg | pb_: just trying to use the ms fonts... |
| 18:36.55 | pb_ | jg: I guess that would be "Verdana 8" for the ms ones. |
| 18:37.07 | pb_ | obviously you can adjust the size to taste. |
| 18:37.31 | pb_ | The font you are getting by default is probably Luxi. |
| 18:39.56 | jg | pb_: still ugly... |
| 18:40.12 | pb_ | jg: can you tell what's wrong with it? |
| 18:40.26 | jg | pb_: font without hints at that size. |
| 18:40.30 | jg | Probably luxi. |
| 18:40.52 | pb_ | Strange. Maybe it isn't picking up your MS fonts for some reason. |
| 18:43.02 | *** join/#gpe dan_t (~dan_t@212-41-206-101.adsl.galactica.it) |
| 18:43.05 | jg | pb_: where is the file that xst is manipulating? |
| 18:43.10 | dan_t | hello |
| 18:43.34 | dan_t | pb_: have you looked at the library i send to you ? |
| 18:43.52 | pb_ | jg: it doesn't directly manipulate a file; it communicates with gpe-confd using X messaging. But the file where the settings are actually stored is ~/.gpe/settings. |
| 18:43.55 | pb_ | dan_t: not yet, sorry |
| 18:43.57 | dc_ | oh yay |
| 18:43.59 | dc_ | I'm cared for. |
| 18:44.08 | dc_ | oh maybe not. |
| 18:44.17 | dc_ | I though that could have been a nice email about gpe-word |
| 18:44.27 | dan_t | pb_: no problem. i want a valutation of the interface. |
| 18:44.35 | mallum | woohoo, I finally have a stable new matchbox :-) |
| 18:44.41 | dc_ | pb_: is that libgpewidget0 bug fixed in gpe-word? |
| 18:44.46 | dan_t | pb_: if i'll make sostantial changes can i send them to you ? |
| 18:44.51 | pb_ | dan_t: sure |
| 18:44.58 | pb_ | dc_: I think so. |
| 18:45.35 | dan_t | pb_: if you want you can browse latest version at http://grinta.net:12380/libbtctl/ (subversion repository) |
| 18:46.46 | dc_ | mallum: omg. |
| 18:46.51 | dc_ | mallum: are we being serious here? |
| 18:48.38 | PaxAnima | dc_: surely, he's dreaming! ;) |
| 18:48.54 | dc_ | PaxAnima: I think so. |
| 18:49.28 | mallum | dc_: well stable as stable as the last package :-) |
| 18:50.02 | jg | pb_, mallum: still losing: cant get a decent font in the file manager.... |
| 18:51.33 | pb_ | jg: sucks. can you get fc-list on there and check that your desired fonts show up? |
| 18:53.03 | jg | pb_: unfortunately, I don't have an arm version compiled right now of fc-list.... |
| 18:53.22 | pb_ | jg: darn. |
| 18:53.53 | dc_ | mallum: coolio |
| 18:57.37 | jg | mallum: could you mail me what you are using for the X host.def file? |
| 18:57.53 | mallum | jg: just the one from the wiki |
| 18:58.14 | jg | mallum: OK, thanks. |
| 18:58.57 | cmarqu | jg: are there ready-made fonts.alias and fonts.scale files for Vera? |
| 18:59.28 | jg | cmarqu: mallum was worrying about generating an aliases file for gpe.... |
| 19:00.05 | mallum | I was ? |
| 19:00.14 | jg | mallum: I thought so... |
| 19:02.27 | *** join/#gpe ade|lite (~adrian@unimatrix.ex.ac.uk) |
| 19:03.01 | mallum | dc_: well icon themeing works -> http://handhelds.org/scap/port.2515.png |
| 19:04.42 | mallum | jg: Im not worried about it :-) |
| 19:05.58 | jg | mallum: oh... I suppose that would provide more incentive for people to convert, then... |
| 19:05.58 | jg | taking the hit of the bitmap fonts...f |
| 19:06.25 | mallum | jg: Im just waiting for 4.3 to be released and then I shall repackage |
| 19:07.01 | mallum | jg: with fc from keithp's cvs, vera fonts ( hopefull they'll be dist-able then ) and no non-ttf fonts |
| 19:08.14 | mallum | jg: if its just a case of running ttmkfdir on the vera fonts, it should be easy |
| 19:08.58 | mallum | florian: are you there ? |
| 19:09.43 | mallum | cmarqu: on this new matchbox I've changed the way the background switch works to mbdesktop, so your .mbstart probably wont start the desktop |
| 19:12.33 | cmarqu | mallum: Ah. Did you upload the package already? |
| 19:13.41 | mallum | cmarqu: no, I dont think this one will make it to unstable |
| 19:14.02 | mallum | cmarqu: Im just pre-warning you |
| 19:14.13 | mallum | cmarqu: you can now set it via XSETTINGS |
| 19:14.15 | cmarqu | Okay, thanks :) |
| 19:14.55 | dan_t | someone has a procedure to install vera fonts on familiar ? |
| 19:14.59 | mallum | cmarqu: the key is MATCHBOX/Background, its a str and the value follows the following |
| 19:15.18 | dan_t | i can build an install package (like microsoft fonts one) if someone help me |
| 19:15.23 | cmarqu | dan_t: I'm working on a package. |
| 19:15.34 | dan_t | cmarqu: do you need some help ? |
| 19:15.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:15.48 | mallum | where a color is like #rrggbb |
| 19:16.06 | PaxAnima | mallum: is there a GUI tool for doing that? |
| 19:16.20 | mallum | PaxAnima: thats what I want to hasssle florian about :-) |
| 19:16.48 | PaxAnima | ah ;) |
| 19:17.09 | cmarqu | dan_t: jg said he can host a feed on gnome.org for the time being, so we don't need dirty tricks. |
| 19:17.48 | dan_t | cmarqu: very nice |
| 19:18.02 | mallum | cmarqu: we also need to think about changing gpe-setbg so it just basically calls xst first and then falls back to setting the rootpixmap itself |
| 19:18.28 | cmarqu | mallum: Hmm, yes. |
| 19:18.45 | mallum | cmarqu: otherwise the 2 are gonna collide |
| 19:19.06 | PaxAnima | argh.. so many things I want to to: make libdictionary use unicode, port psCalc to gtk2 and revive my PIM... but there is a thing called "Diploma work" that blocks me... :/ |
| 19:19.07 | mallum | cmarqu: its not setting the root pixmap as yet |
| 19:19.51 | mallum | cmarqu: but its not much code for me to add to make it so |
| 19:22.02 | cmarqu | mallum: Please fix. pb did most of the work on the package anyway... |
| 19:22.33 | cmarqu | Meaning, I don't understnad any of it :) |
| 19:26.44 | dan_t | can i made a gtk question ? |
| 19:27.10 | dan_t | a vbox takes all space that it can always ? |
| 19:27.30 | PaxAnima | don't think so |
| 19:27.34 | dan_t | if i make a window and into it a vbox the vbox is tall as the window ? |
| 19:28.00 | PaxAnima | yes |
| 19:28.32 | dan_t | if i add a widget to the vbox can i tell him to take all available space ? |
| 19:28.53 | PaxAnima | yes.. |
| 19:29.15 | dan_t | ok, then there is somethink that i don't understand... |
| 19:29.37 | dan_t | PaxAnima: can i send you a little piece of code to look at ? |
| 19:29.41 | PaxAnima | sure |
| 19:46.36 | mallum | cmarqu: well Im hoping for now we can replace gpe-setbg with just a shell script wrapper around xst |
| 19:47.38 | cmarqu | Yeah, that would be even better. |
| 19:48.06 | mallum | cmarqu: and then once florian has a nice gui front end for the background, we should need to worry much about it |
| 19:48.32 | cmarqu | dan_t: Are you standing by to test a preliminary vera package? |
| 19:48.50 | cmarqu | mallum: I have on ein gpe-conf already for the login screen, that could be reused. |
| 19:57.48 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-70-63-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 19:57.57 | dc__ | oh |
| 19:58.03 | dc__ | I like the storage infomation thing, florian? |
| 19:58.48 | dc__ | mallum: the pugs have invaded scap! |
| 19:58.48 | cmarqu | Argh. Now, of all days, I cannot get a pp connection to the ipaq. |
| 19:59.08 | mallum | dc__: yeah, showing off the background changing |
| 19:59.33 | mallum | dc__: and the icon theming |
| 20:00.00 | dc__ | mallum: wow, so is the Bluecurve theme packaged as well? |
| 20:00.17 | dan_t | cmarqu: what hazard ? |
| 20:00.45 | cmarqu | dan_t: No hazard :) |
| 20:00.55 | dan_t | cmarqu: where i can dowload it ? |
| 20:00.56 | cmarqu | One sec. |
| 20:01.05 | cmarqu | dan_t: No download. e-mail? |
| 20:01.09 | dc__ | it's nice how gpe is beginning to look much better than opie ;) |
| 20:01.16 | dan_t | cmarqu: daniele@grinta.net |
| 20:01.37 | cmarqu | dc__: But the Wellenreiter scap looks nice :/ |
| 20:01.52 | dc__ | mallum: mention any icons you think I forgot or don't make sennse. |
| 20:01.55 | dc__ | cmarqu: I know :// |
| 20:01.57 | dan_t | cmarqu: wellenreiter ? |
| 20:01.57 | dc__ | bbl foodd. |
| 20:02.04 | cmarqu | dan_t: See scap |
| 20:03.23 | mallum | dc__: no not packaged. I just dumped your icons into ~/.icons and check it worked |
| 20:04.05 | mallum | dc__: then I deleted them, and made a /usr/share/icons/bluecurve/32x32/apps dir and dumped them in there, and then switched the theme to bluecurve an d it worked |
| 20:08.34 | *** join/#gpe jgettys (~jgettys@dhcp-r21.crl.dec.com) |
| 20:08.50 | dan_t | cmarqu: have you send me vera package ? |
| 20:08.59 | cmarqu | mallum: does MB in unstable hardcode the font to Verdana? |
| 20:09.06 | cmarqu | dan_t: Not yet, still testing. |
| 20:09.12 | mallum | cmarqu: what one ? |
| 20:09.40 | cmarqu | mallum: Hmm. the one in mbdesktop? |
| 20:11.02 | cmarqu | xkbd does too I guess. |
| 20:11.17 | cmarqu | root@tiny:~# mbdesktop |
| 20:11.17 | cmarqu | mbdesktop: Cant open font verdana-6:bold |
| 20:11.27 | mallum | cmarqu: xkbd is set in its config file |
| 20:11.37 | mallum | mbdesktop has a font switch IIRC |
| 20:12.08 | cmarqu | Ah, of course. |
| 20:12.14 | mallum | cmarqu: you want me to make it settable via XSettings ? |
| 20:13.23 | jg | please, lets use the generic names "sansserif", "serif" and "monospace" in applications, and customize which family is used (if more than one is available) via /etc/fonts/local.conf.... |
| 20:13.39 | jg | oops, I meant "sans-serif". |
| 20:14.33 | mallum | jg: never ! |
| 20:14.51 | mallum | jg: I fully intend to stay M$'s secret bitch |
| 20:15.04 | jg | mallum: oh, you do do you? ;-) |
| 20:15.35 | mallum | jg: well I recently baught an xbox and 'code complete' ... |
| 20:16.29 | cmarqu | jg: Can I post a link to a prelim. Vera ipkg here (which I will remove soon)? |
| 20:16.54 | cmarqu | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.27364.png |
| 20:16.57 | jg | cmarqu: please don't.... |
| 20:17.05 | cmarqu | mbdesktop is not quite happy... |
| 20:17.06 | jg | cmarqu: let's play by the rules.... |
| 20:17.19 | cmarqu | jg: Okay, no problem. |
| 20:18.48 | cmarqu | mallum: Does mbdesktop read any fonts.* files? I wonder if they are wrong... |
| 20:19.05 | mallum | jg: whats the point in rules if you dont break them ;-) |
| 20:19.18 | mallum | cmarqu: no |
| 20:19.19 | cmarqu | mallum: I am running mbdesktop like mbdesktop --bg:trans --fontcol '#5e0707' --font "Bitstream Vera Sans 6" --titlefont "Bitstream Vera Sans 6" & |
| 20:19.33 | jg | mallum: there is a time and place for breaking rules. Generally not nice to do so when someone has been very generous.... |
| 20:19.37 | mallum | cmarqu: you want Bitstream Vera Sans-6 |
| 20:19.44 | cmarqu | Ah. |
| 20:19.51 | mallum | jg: yes, yes, Im only pulling your ( unhurt ) leg |
| 20:20.01 | jg | mallum: I know :-). |
| 20:20.33 | dan_t | cmarqu: can you send me package for testing ? (and explain me how to install it thought ipkg) |
| 20:20.47 | cmarqu | Ha, works. |
| 20:20.56 | cmarqu | dan_t: Still not ready. |
| 20:20.58 | mallum | cmarqu: can you scap it ? |
| 20:22.31 | cmarqu | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.2356.png |
| 20:22.56 | mallum | HOLD THE FRONT PAGE PEOPLE! |
| 20:22.58 | mallum | http://carbon.hemmet.chalmers.se/dbus-conf.html |
| 20:23.45 | cmarqu | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.21763.png |
| 20:23.52 | jg | cmarqu: very, very pretty, though the background is distracting to the beautiful fonts.... |
| 20:23.53 | mallum | cmarqu: --titlefont "Bitstream Vera Sans-6:bold" maybe better |
| 20:27.28 | cmarqu | --font "Bitstream Vera Sans-6:bold" --titlefont "Bitstream Vera Sans-8:bold": http://handhelds.org/scap/port.13400.png |
| 20:28.20 | cmarqu | My package has a flaw of course: it ships with the fonts.* files in /usr/share/fonts/ |
| 20:28.59 | cmarqu | And I don't enable subpixel rendering in the local.conf. |
| 20:29.38 | cmarqu | Actually, it ships only a /etc/fonts/local.conf.Vera right now. |
| 20:32.34 | mallum | cmarqu: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.13400.png looks pretty awful :( |
| 20:32.36 | dc__ | mallum: awsome |
| 20:32.50 | dc__ | mallum: but note, the icons are 48x48 not 32x32 IIRC :/ |
| 20:33.13 | cmarqu | mallum: Bitstream Vera Sans-6:bold is not nice, but -8:bold is. |
| 20:33.22 | mallum | dc__: http://carbon.hemmet.chalmers.se/gallery/album22/p2070008 <-- special friend |
| 20:33.30 | jg | cmarqu: with current XFree86 bits, it should be figuring out the subpixel stuff on its own.... |
| 20:33.42 | jg | Without having to mess with fonts.conf or local.conf... |
| 20:33.58 | mallum | dc__: ok, it dont make any different, mbdesktop checks the size on loaded icons anyway |
| 20:34.01 | dc__ | mallum: oh no!! |
| 20:34.06 | mallum | dc__: hehe |
| 20:34.30 | jg | cmarqu: manually setting things there is intended for older X servers, or if you have a flat panel via a non-digital video card, where it can't know the subpixel order. |
| 20:34.32 | dc__ | it's that guy who didn't have any friends. |
| 20:34.34 | dc__ | poor man |
| 20:34.54 | mallum | dc__: he had rms as a friend |
| 20:35.12 | dc__ | oh good for him :/ |
| 20:35.41 | mallum | crazy skipping pixie men |
| 20:35.56 | cmarqu | jg: Okay. For me, it should be fine then? |
| 20:36.05 | cmarqu | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.13400.png |
| 20:36.16 | cmarqu | Ooops. Forget that. |
| 20:36.51 | dc__ | mallum: god will save us |
| 20:37.10 | cmarqu | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.17218.png |
| 20:38.15 | dc__ | mallum: can I get an ipkg of the new matchbox? |
| 20:38.52 | cmarqu | jg: Okay, what are we doing now? Do you want the ipk as it is, with the two flaws I listed? |
| 20:38.58 | jg | cmarqu: in theory... The question is, are we really getting everything set right, and how do I tell what the current subpixel order is? |
| 20:39.08 | jg | cmarqu: what are the two flaws? |
| 20:39.12 | mallum | cmarqu: thats a bit better |
| 20:39.13 | jg | I wasn't listening... |
| 20:39.26 | cmarqu | jg: 21:29 < cmarqu> Actually, it ships only a /etc/fonts/local.conf.Vera right now. |
| 20:39.31 | mallum | dc__: in a mo ... Im just stabilising it a little |
| 20:39.41 | cmarqu | 21:28 < cmarqu> My package has a flaw of course: it ships with the fonts.* files in /usr/share/fonts/ |
| 20:40.11 | jg | cmarqu: the local.conf file I distribute should be adaquate: it says: use Vera if it is available.... That should best go into a base package, though... |
| 20:40.34 | dc__ | mallum: leet :} |
| 20:42.12 | jg | cmarqu: Vera (and other TT fonts) should go in subdirectories of /usr/share/fonts. |
| 20:42.33 | cmarqu | jg: Ah. What name do you suggest for the subdirectory? |
| 20:42.53 | cmarqu | Just 'vera'? |
| 20:42.59 | jg | cmarqu: how about "Vera" or "Bitstream Vera"? |
| 20:43.32 | jg | cmarqu: Please make sure to include the .html and copyright files. |
| 20:43.50 | cmarqu | Well, I dislike spaces in filenames, so "Vera" is okay. Or "Bitstream/Vera"? I.e., a hierarchy of 2? |
| 20:44.15 | *** join/#gpe Transputer2001 (~Transpute@p5083ED03.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:44.25 | Transputer2001 | hi all |
| 20:44.34 | cmarqu | jg: Yes, .html and copyright files are in /usr/share/doc/verattf |
| 20:45.02 | mallum | dc__: I still cant guarentee certain dock apps wont crash :( |
| 20:45.09 | mallum | dc__: its very annoying |
| 20:45.19 | dc__ | mallum: I can live with that :] |
| 20:45.21 | jg | cmarqu: I like to give Bitstream credit wherever possible. I think that fontconfig is recursive, so the subdirectory will work.... |
| 20:45.38 | *** join/#gpe nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 20:45.39 | jg | cmarqu: keep the files *with* the fonts..... |
| 20:45.42 | nelson | Hey! |
| 20:45.46 | nelson | guess what! |
| 20:45.47 | mallum | nelson: HEY |
| 20:45.47 | cmarqu | jg: Then let's try it recursive. That's how TeX organizes its font files as well. |
| 20:45.53 | nelson | I'm gonna rename GPE1 |
| 20:45.55 | cmarqu | Hi nelson |
| 20:46.02 | nelson | It's now called the Great Palmtop Environment!!! |
| 20:46.09 | nelson | Whadda ya think? Catchy, eh? |
| 20:46.15 | mallum | nelson: I like |
| 20:46.15 | cmarqu | :) |
| 20:46.43 | Transputer2001 | is there a gpe mailinglist? |
| 20:46.49 | nelson | and it's true, too. |
| 20:47.02 | cmarqu | Transputer2001: Sure. Look at gpe.handhelds.org |
| 20:47.03 | florian | Transputer2001: yep, it is - its gpe@handhelds.org |
| 20:47.13 | florian | :-) |
| 20:47.16 | Transputer2001 | thanks florian |
| 20:47.59 | cmarqu | florian: Hey, don't *give* Transputer2001 a fish, but teach *how* to fish :) |
| 20:48.09 | Transputer2001 | i am an newbie to gpe, i tried ope before but i think opie is not as stable as gpe |
| 20:49.15 | mallum | florian: ah, your alive ? |
| 20:49.24 | dc__ | that's always good to hear Transputer2001 :) |
| 20:49.36 | cmarqu | jg: Okay, got it all. The only thing left is the fonts.{scale,dir,alias} files. I'm not even sure they are correct (esp. the alias file). |
| 20:50.03 | Transputer2001 | are all things supported by Opie e.g. bluetooth, irda ... also supported by GPE |
| 20:50.38 | florian | cmarqu: LOL |
| 20:51.36 | florian | mallum: yep :-) |
| 20:51.54 | mallum | florian: did you catch my info about background setting in the history ? |
| 20:52.29 | florian | Transputer2001: more or less, from system side yes, but we still work at the frontends... |
| 20:52.37 | florian | mallum: nope.. |
| 20:53.08 | mallum | florian: ok the --bg switch has changed in mbdesktop, it now works like |
| 20:53.13 | mallum | --bg <setting> |
| 20:53.17 | mallum | where setting is |
| 20:53.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.39 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.48 | mallum | and color looks like #rrggbb |
| 20:54.04 | mallum | florian: you can also set it via MATCHBOX/Background key |
| 20:54.14 | mallum | florian: and it will change on the fly |
| 20:55.36 | florian | mallum: great! and i still had some hoe for a lazy day tomorrow ;-) |
| 20:55.51 | mallum | florian: hehe |
| 20:56.37 | jg | mallum: so what is "figment", anyway? |
| 20:56.46 | mallum | florian: if you want a nice color selector dialog btw, you should check sodipodi's |
| 20:57.01 | mallum | florian: http://sodipodi.sourceforge.net/ , it has a nice tiny one |
| 20:57.10 | mallum | jg: an outliner |
| 20:57.26 | jg | mallum: ah, so... |
| 20:57.27 | mallum | jg: which is slightly broke and present I think |
| 20:58.27 | jg | mallum: one of the things I like about RH 8 is that their menu entries/names are functional in nature rather than just program names... Makes it much more approachable. |
| 20:59.31 | mallum | jg: yes I agree |
| 20:59.54 | jg | mallum: how about calling it "outliner" |
| 21:00.04 | jg | I know it isn't original.... |
| 21:00.09 | florian | mallum: i saw golor selectors like this i a quite fresh version of gimp, is this taken from there? |
| 21:00.21 | mallum | florian: yes it may have been |
| 21:00.30 | mallum | florian: want me to screenshot one of them |
| 21:01.42 | mallum | jg: I will change its .desktop entry when I get round to fixing it up again |
| 21:02.15 | florian | mallum: don't have it installed - just saw it at nomis notebook... |
| 21:02.31 | mallum | florian: ok I'll do you a screen shot |
| 21:02.41 | jg | mallum: thanks.... |
| 21:02.50 | florian | mallum: :-) |
| 21:04.59 | mallum | florian: http://handhelds.org/~mallum/sodipodi.png |
| 21:05.27 | Transputer2001 | i have some newbie questions :) |
| 21:05.58 | *** join/#gpe BBrox (~ulmer@bbrox.org) |
| 21:06.50 | mallum | jg: do you know much about the selecting on the X file desriptor trick in an event loop ? |
| 21:07.17 | florian | mallum: yep, very nice - i think that are the same... |
| 21:07.54 | mallum | florian: yes ! yes ! definetly |
| 21:08.51 | florian | Transputer2001: should be no problem, but first look at gpe website, this maybe answers some questions |
| 21:10.44 | jg | mallum: always a very good idea.... |
| 21:11.02 | jg | mallum: you can definately lose if you don't under some circumstances.... |
| 21:12.00 | mallum | jg: yes and I think I am in certain dock apps, which use a select with XPending and XNextEvent |
| 21:12.28 | jg | mallum: XPending and XNextEvent do flushes internally, of course... |
| 21:13.19 | mallum | jg: but a select does not right ? |
| 21:14.07 | florian | mallum: did you create a matchbox package? |
| 21:14.51 | jg | mallum: select is a system call, so Xlib has no way to know about you calling it... |
| 21:15.11 | mallum | jg: right |
| 21:15.50 | mallum | jg: I get a little confused about XSync and XFlush |
| 21:16.01 | mallum | florian: yes, Im just about to build a hopefully better one |
| 21:16.21 | mallum | florian: also I changed the way themes are handled, I'll explain ... |
| 21:16.38 | mallum | florian: now you only need to pass a theme name to mbcontrol |
| 21:16.56 | mallum | florian: and it will check /usr/share/themes/<theme name>/matchbox/ |
| 21:17.22 | florian | mallum: ah, yes - i think i should keep this in mind... |
| 21:17.32 | mallum | florian: _BUT_ , if you set the XSETTINGS keys Net/ThemeName instead with the same name |
| 21:17.47 | mallum | florian: it will change the matchbox theme / the gtk one and the desktop icons ! |
| 21:18.10 | florian | florian: this makes it easier for me :-) |
| 21:18.19 | cmarqu | BRB |
| 21:18.32 | mallum | florian: icons will be checked for in /usr/share/icons/<theme name/<icon size>x<icon size>/.. |
| 21:18.54 | mallum | florian: gtk should hopefully reread it theme from /usr/share/themes/<theme name>/gtk2/gtkrc |
| 21:19.21 | mallum | florian: and the desktop will soon attempt to get its background from /usr/share/icons/<theme name/Background |
| 21:19.45 | florian | mallum: you should create some demo themes and document this all to a wiki page |
| 21:20.03 | mallum | florian: yes, I know |
| 21:20.10 | florian | mallum: :-) |
| 21:20.32 | mallum | florian: also ~/.icons/<theme name> and ~/.theme/<icon name> are check initially |
| 21:20.38 | jg | mallum: There is almost never a reason to call XSync... |
| 21:20.47 | jg | mallum: waiting a round trip is evil. |
| 21:20.58 | jg | mallum: but you do have to flush before calling select.... |
| 21:21.06 | mallum | jg: I seem to need to do it with shm calls |
| 21:21.21 | jg | mallum: which, Sync or Flush? |
| 21:21.26 | mallum | jg: XSync |
| 21:21.44 | mallum | jg: just after I call the XShmPutImage |
| 21:22.12 | mallum | jg: XSync just wait for any pending requests to be processed right ? |
| 21:22.50 | mallum | florian: and icons eventually drop back to /usr/share/pixmaps if nothing else can be found |
| 21:23.13 | mallum | florian: its exactly the way ( more or less ) that gnome works, execpt they use mostly gconf |
| 21:23.45 | cmarqu | jg: Would I be allowed to mail the vera ipkg to dan_t? |
| 21:23.47 | mallum | florian: but Im hopeing we can use that soon and stop trying to force circular XSettings into a square hile |
| 21:24.40 | florian | mallum: we are on the best way, go become as colorful as opie ;-) |
| 21:26.11 | jg | mallum: I don't quite understand why.... |
| 21:26.33 | mallum | jg: me niether :( |
| 21:27.17 | mallum | jg: but I get this http://handhelds.org/scap/port.32244.png without it |
| 21:27.50 | mallum | jg: when would you use an XSync ? |
| 21:28.13 | jg | XFlush won't guarantee it has executed. |
| 21:28.23 | dan_t | spung: i have some problems with your cross debian packages |
| 21:28.24 | jg | XSync will. |
| 21:28.32 | spung | dan_t: wassup? |
| 21:28.51 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-6-47-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 21:28.56 | dan_t | spung: http://handhelds.org/~luis/cross/ are yours ? |
| 21:29.06 | spung | dan_t: yes |
| 21:29.28 | dan_t | spung: them don't install /usr/amr-linux/lib/pkgconfig/ files |
| 21:29.50 | spung | dan_t: hmmm |
| 21:30.04 | jg | cmarqu: yes, you can do so, but don't send them to others... |
| 21:30.09 | spung | dan_t: what error do you get? |
| 21:30.18 | cmarqu | jg: Okay, thanks. |
| 21:31.01 | dan_t | spung: please refer to: http://people.debian.org/~debacle/cross.html |
| 21:31.21 | dan_t | spung: without those files you can't use pkgconfig sucessfully |
| 21:32.19 | spung | but |
| 21:32.44 | spung | dan_t: what do you want to do with pkgconfig? |
| 21:33.47 | dan_t | spung: ./configure |
| 21:34.06 | spung | dan_t: oh, right.. never tried that |
| 21:34.08 | dan_t | spung: pkg-config is used by a lot of packages for build |
| 21:34.15 | spung | but |
| 21:34.35 | dan_t | spung: you need to patch dpkg-cross to generate those files |
| 21:36.03 | spung | dan_t: hmm, libgtk2-dev should install those for instance right' |
| 21:36.44 | dan_t | spung: right |
| 21:36.44 | spung | dan_t: ohhh |
| 21:36.53 | spung | dan_t: yes, dpkg-cross bug or something right |
| 21:36.53 | dan_t | spung: also libglib |
| 21:37.26 | spung | dan_t: you can get the original arm deb's and extract those .pc's |
| 21:37.38 | dan_t | spung: i don't know if is a bug. there is a patch in the page that i have reported |
| 21:37.59 | dan_t | spung: no, you need to adjust them |
| 21:38.04 | spung | dan_t: ohh |
| 21:38.40 | mallum | spung, dan_t: you can force pkg-config to look else where by setting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH env var ( IIRC ) |
| 21:39.14 | spung | mallum: yes |
| 21:40.22 | dan_t | mallum: sure but if it looks at /usr/lib/pkgconfig it report /usr/lib/ libraries and not /usr/arm-linux/lib ones |
| 21:40.49 | spung | dan_t: the .pc files need to be adjusted to /usr/arm-linux |
| 21:41.36 | dan_t | spung: yes. see here: http://people.debian.org/~debacle/cross.html#id2784556 |
| 21:41.52 | spung | dan_t: so, you can grab the pc's from the arm debs, and adjust them by hand :) |
| 21:42.08 | spung | dan_t: the create a .tar.gz and i'll put it along with my cross debs |
| 21:42.11 | spung | :D |
| 21:42.30 | dan_t | spung: or you can fix your debs |
| 21:42.37 | spung | dan_t: it looks like a simple prefix=/usr -> prefix=/usr/arm-linux |
| 21:43.00 | spung | dan_t: right, i guess i can do that ;) |
| 21:43.02 | jg | mallum: how do I get ssh working in current latest and greatest bits? |
| 21:43.27 | spung | dan_t: i'll see if i can do that today |
| 21:44.06 | cmarqu | spung, dan_t: Please put info about cross compiling in http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/GpeCrossCompilation, e.g. all these links. |
| 21:44.44 | dan_t | cmarqu: sure |
| 21:44.50 | cmarqu | dan_t: Thanks. |
| 21:45.06 | jg | mallum: ignore that: operator error... |
| 21:45.31 | spung | dan_t: ok, i guess i'll had a "ready to go" set of deb's for crosscompiling :) |
| 21:45.46 | spung | s/had/add |
| 21:47.36 | mallum | jg, dc__, cmarqu, florian: come get it ! ipkg install http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/experimental/matchbox_0.5pre.20030224-2_arm.ipk |
| 21:47.59 | jg | mallum: what does this one do? |
| 21:48.11 | mallum | jg: cold fusion amonst other things |
| 21:48.23 | mallum | jg: oh and instantly creates world peace |
| 21:48.33 | spung | mallum: can i get it too or is it only for the eleet? :D |
| 21:48.45 | mallum | spung: sure you can grab it |
| 21:49.07 | florian | enough for today, timed update and and |
| 21:49.13 | florian | oops...# |
| 21:49.23 | mallum | jg: seriously it has lots, a new rewritten theme engine mainly |
| 21:49.25 | jg | spung: definately no elitism here: you can suffer along with the rest of us.... |
| 21:49.31 | spung | jg: :D |
| 21:49.36 | florian | adding devices works... :-) |
| 21:50.02 | florian | mallum: ok, this first... before sleeping :_) |
| 21:50.08 | mallum | florian: hehe |
| 21:51.09 | mallum | xst write Net/ThemeName str bluebox |
| 21:51.10 | mallum | or |
| 21:51.20 | mallum | xst write Net/ThemeName str gorilla |
| 21:51.21 | mallum | or |
| 21:51.26 | mallum | xst write Net/ThemeName str blondie |
| 21:51.30 | mallum | to change themes |
| 21:53.27 | mallum | gorilla isn't quite finished |
| 21:54.10 | cmarqu | Hmm, my package is still not quite right. The description doesn't show up with ipkg. |
| 21:55.04 | cmarqu | Is it because I don't have a "Depends:" line? |
| 22:01.21 | dan_t | cmarqu: if is so ipkg is bugged |
| 22:02.05 | mallum | florian: also you may want to try this ; |
| 22:02.36 | mallum | make a ~/.mbstart file and make it executable |
| 22:02.40 | mallum | populate with; |
| 22:02.57 | mallum | #!/bin/sh |
| 22:02.57 | mallum | export GPE_DISPLAY_MIGRATION=1 |
| 22:02.57 | mallum | mbdesktop & |
| 22:02.57 | mallum | mbdock & |
| 22:03.17 | mallum | killall keylaunch |
| 22:03.21 | mallum | exec matchbox |
| 22:03.40 | cmarqu | dan_t: does it show up for you maybe? ipkg list |grep vera |
| 22:03.47 | mallum | then create a ~/.mbkbconfig file and populate with; |
| 22:03.48 | florian | mallum: matchbox overrides my color settings... http://handhelds.org/scap/port.13823.png |
| 22:04.10 | mallum | XF86Calendar=!$gpe-calendar |
| 22:04.10 | mallum | telephone=!$gpe-contacts |
| 22:04.10 | mallum | XF86Mail=!$gpe-todo |
| 22:04.10 | mallum | XF86Start=!rxvt |
| 22:04.16 | cmarqu | A few other packages also have no description when looked at with ipkg. |
| 22:04.52 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.161.224.71) |
| 22:04.59 | mallum | florian: wierd, maybe it found another gtkrc ? |
| 22:05.40 | cmarqu | Ah. I know. It only displays descriptions for packages installed form a feed. |
| 22:07.31 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@203.206.217.82) |
| 22:07.41 | florian | mallum: hmm... i set these colors by a rc style... hard - from constants |
| 22:08.15 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-109-43-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 22:09.09 | mallum | florian: try moving your gtkrc file to /usr/share/themes/bluebox/gtk-2.0/gtkrc |
| 22:09.34 | mallum | florian: then change the theme to blondie and then back to bluebox and see if that fixes it |
| 22:09.52 | pigeon | mallum: 1.13 1.2 0x02 0x00 0xff 0xff 100% 300 min |
| 22:10.09 | pigeon | mallum: When miniapm saying Juice: -01% |
| 22:10.16 | mallum | pigeon: thats fixed in new matchbox |
| 22:10.21 | pigeon | I'm getting it right now. |
| 22:10.24 | pigeon | Cool. |
| 22:10.25 | pigeon | :) |
| 22:10.36 | mallum | pigeon: as is the screen rotation thing |
| 22:10.49 | mallum | pigeon: ( I think ) |
| 22:10.50 | pigeon | :O |
| 22:10.55 | mallum | pigeon: check your jistory for url |
| 22:11.06 | cmarqu | Ouch. gpe-announce is *really* loud. And I mean *really*. |
| 22:11.07 | pigeon | Hmm... |
| 22:11.09 | pigeon | History... |
| 22:11.32 | pigeon | So you mean it's not in unstable feed yet? |
| 22:11.44 | mallum | pigeon: nope its currently dogfood release |
| 22:11.51 | pigeon | Ah ok. |
| 22:12.00 | mallum | pigeon: ipkg install http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/experimental/matchbox_0.5pre.20030224-2_arm.ipk |
| 22:12.28 | pigeon | mallum: thanks |
| 22:13.43 | florian | were _is_ my gtkrc? |
| 22:13.48 | florian | s/were/where |
| 22:14.03 | mallum | florian: ~/.gtkrc-2.0 ? |
| 22:14.43 | florian | mallum: ~/.gtkrc :-) |
| 22:14.55 | mallum | florian: I think thats for gtk1 ? |
| 22:15.27 | *** join/#gpe cmarqu_ipaq (~cmarqu_ip@pD95186FC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:15.35 | florian | mallum: but the key config seems not to work |
| 22:15.45 | cmarqu_ipaq | Ah. |
| 22:16.00 | florian | mallum: me too... but it's the only one |
| 22:16.11 | mallum | florian: hmm |
| 22:16.24 | mallum | florian: you probably need to restart matchbox for the keys to kick in |
| 22:16.29 | dan_t | cmarqu: no description also form me |
| 22:16.48 | cmarqu_ipaq | Smile for a scap. |
| 22:17.38 | cmarqu | dan_t: That's because we didn't install from a feed. |
| 22:17.58 | dan_t | cmarqu: ?? what is the differencre ? |
| 22:18.10 | florian | mallum: i think i did... maybe a c&p error... |
| 22:18.15 | cmarqu | dan_t: No Packages file present. |
| 22:18.39 | dan_t | cmarqu: but ipkg doesn't read content of package ? |
| 22:18.53 | cmarqu | dan_t: No, not with ipkg list. |
| 22:19.18 | pigeon | :\ |
| 22:19.28 | pigeon | There're so many things broken after moving to busybox :( |
| 22:19.40 | pigeon | (For my ipaq that is) |
| 22:19.48 | cmarqu | pigeon: I asked you to smile, not to look strange. |
| 22:20.10 | florian | mallum: .mbstart looks ok, .mbkbconfig too.... |
| 22:20.19 | pigeon | cmarqu: :P~ |
| 22:20.27 | cmarqu | pigeon: Did you do an upgrade? I never got that to work, but a fresh install is fine. |
| 22:20.27 | mallum | florian: http://handhelds.org/~mallum/.mbkbdconfig |
| 22:20.51 | pigeon | cmarqu: Yeah, mine is always upgrade but not reflash. |
| 22:20.58 | mallum | florian: did you kill off keylaunch in .mbstart ? |
| 22:21.14 | florian | mallum: yep... |
| 22:21.38 | cmarqu | Argh. Something killed cmarqu_ipaq... |
| 22:21.43 | pigeon | request_module[net-pf-10]: waitpid(892,...) failed, errno 10 |
| 22:22.28 | florian | mallum: got it... a missing "g"... sorry 'g' in filename |
| 22:22.44 | spung | mallum: the tap and hold dock menu is not working very well, known bug? |
| 22:22.50 | mallum | florian: aha |
| 22:23.01 | mallum | spung: yeah I put a -5 in rather than a +5 :( |
| 22:23.09 | mallum | spung: for the docks position |
| 22:23.34 | mallum | spung: just slide your pointer onto the menu while its still held down, it wont dissapear then |
| 22:23.41 | spung | mallum: yeah |
| 22:23.45 | spung | mallum: i noticed that |
| 22:24.19 | spung | mallum: why is the X pointer sometimes completely inexistent and sometimes a black pixel? |
| 22:24.20 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~netwinder@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 22:24.34 | mallum | spung: I've never seen that |
| 22:24.50 | spung | mallum: i get the black pixel sometimes |
| 22:25.00 | dan_t | spung: i also |
| 22:25.12 | florian | mallum: great - works... another task for gpe-conf :-) |
| 22:25.22 | florian | ...tomorrow |
| 22:27.58 | florian | good night all! |
| 22:28.06 | spung | 'night |
| 22:28.32 | mallum | florian: cool :-) |
| 22:28.36 | mallum | gnight |
| 22:29.12 | spung | mallum: btw, mbdesktop is not showing the proper desktop |
| 22:29.17 | spung | mallum: btw, mbdesktop is not showing the proper desktop background |
| 22:29.27 | spung | mallum: although gpe-login/gpe-today do |
| 22:30.01 | mallum | spung: we are in flux, mbdesktop will control the background soon |
| 22:31.06 | spung | mallum: right |
| 22:31.20 | spung | mallum: will that mess with librootimage? |
| 22:31.25 | mallum | spung: so at the moment there is a clash |
| 22:31.37 | mallum | spung: not librootimage will still work fine |
| 22:31.43 | spung | cool |
| 22:35.04 | Transputer2001 | ibot, font |
| 22:35.09 | | i don't know, Transputer2001 |
| 22:35.32 | cmarqu | Transputer2001: What are you looking for? |
| 22:35.56 | Transputer2001 | i would like to change the font from the GPE desktop |
| 22:36.29 | Transputer2001 | after postinst i have a ugly font |
| 22:36.45 | cmarqu | Transputer2001: What installation do you have? Does you current font look anything like the ones on http://handhelds.org/scap/? |
| 22:37.42 | Transputer2001 | cmarqu: i take the latest image from pb_ |
| 22:37.56 | Transputer2001 | jep the first image is like mine |
| 22:38.20 | cmarqu | Luxi then. |
| 22:38.48 | pigeon | MBPIXBUF MIT-SHM: Shared memory KID=4325377, at=0x40014000 |
| 22:38.59 | Transputer2001 | yes i think so cmarqu |
| 22:39.17 | cmarqu | Transputer2001: In a short while, you should be able to get fonts like these: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.4119.png (Bitstream Vera) |
| 22:39.56 | Transputer2001 | looks nice |
| 22:40.07 | Transputer2001 | hmm can i change this font? |
| 22:40.08 | cmarqu | You could install Verdana and Andale in the meantime, but it would be a waste |
| 22:40.54 | cmarqu | Transputer2001: You have to wait until jg creates a feed for the Vera fonts on gnome.org |
| 22:40.57 | Transputer2001 | anyways .. where can i find apps for GPE ? |
| 22:41.25 | cmarqu | Transputer2001: Pretty much all usable apps are in the pb10 image. |
| 22:41.53 | Transputer2001 | and whats about irda, email, bluetooth |
| 22:41.58 | cmarqu | Of course, all other X apps will run too. |
| 22:42.39 | Transputer2001 | what du o mean with xApps, can i run e.g. xfig |
| 22:42.39 | cmarqu | Don't know about irda, but email is unfortunately a GTK1 app, and so it requires the gtk1 libs. |
| 22:42.51 | cmarqu | Transputer2001: you should, yes. |
| 22:43.18 | Transputer2001 | where can i find that packages |
| 22:43.27 | cmarqu | With the screen, input and size constraints of the iPAQ of course. |
| 22:43.30 | Transputer2001 | debian packages? |
| 22:43.32 | cmarqu | s/size/space/ |
| 22:43.41 | dan_t | spung: how is the rebuilding of debian packages ? |
| 22:43.47 | cmarqu | Transputer2001: yes, for Debian arm |
| 22:44.01 | Transputer2001 | cool so i can use pine for email :) |
| 22:44.07 | spung | dan_t: stalled :D |
| 22:44.14 | dc_ | Transputer2001: :) |
| 22:44.20 | dan_t | spung: i go to build mine so |
| 22:44.22 | cmarqu | Argh, pine :) |
| 22:44.34 | cmarqu | Hmm. I need to go to bed. |
| 22:44.38 | cmarqu | Night all. |
| 22:44.46 | spung | dan_t: good idea |
| 22:44.46 | Transputer2001 | which line i have to add to ipkg.conf |
| 22:44.55 | spung | dan_t: let me know about you're progress |
| 22:44.56 | Transputer2001 | good night cmarqu and thanks |
| 22:50.27 | pigeon | So mbdesktop doesn't take root background image anymore? |
| 22:56.42 | Transputer2001 | n8 |
| 22:56.52 | *** part/#gpe Transputer2001 (~Transpute@p5083ED03.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:09.11 | dc_ | this email makes me wonder where alan cox actualy finds all the time to read the gpe mailing list. |
| 23:17.18 | spung | dc_: ;) |
| 23:17.43 | spung | dc_: he also has time no flame on the Gnome HIG mailing list.. i guess he has a lot of time :) |
| 23:19.14 | pigeon | Hmm where do you set the default matchbox theme now? .mbtheme doesn't seem to work... |
| 23:22.10 | pigeon | Ar, -theme will do too. |
| 23:26.10 | pigeon | Hmm any matchbox themer here? |
| 23:26.55 | dc_ | spung: I guess. |
| 23:30.44 | dc_ | :/ |
| 23:31.15 | pigeon | dc_: :( |
| 23:32.03 | mallum | pigeon: yeah matchbox uses XSETTINGS now to keep a stored record of the chosen theme rather than ~/.mbtheme |
| 23:32.12 | mallum | pigeon: you can overid with -theme switch |
| 23:32.27 | mallum | pigeon: the matchbox theme format has changed slightly |
| 23:33.00 | mallum | pigeon: its probably just a case of changing the color definition to a #rrggbb in the classic theme to get it working again |
| 23:33.49 | pigeon | Ah. |
| 23:33.53 | pigeon | mallum: thanks again |
| 23:35.04 | pigeon | Ok... I should do some real work now... enough with my ipaq :) |
| 23:38.13 | mallum | pigeon: just compare the theme.xml format of classic with a recent one, anything apart from the color should be obvious - I havn't changed stuff that dramitically |
| 23:38.25 | mallum | pigeon: and if you fix it up, then please do mail me it ! |
| 23:38.59 | pigeon | mallum: ok ta... and btw, some dock apps still disappear after being a white box, that's still known right? |
| 23:39.54 | mallum | pigeon: unfortunatly yes, its the bain of my life :( |
| 23:40.11 | mallum | pigeon: afaik it only happens to miniapm, minisys and minitime |
| 23:40.22 | mallum | pigeon: please tell me if you see it happen to something else |
| 23:40.43 | pigeon | Yup ok. |
| 23:41.51 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dc@modem-234-56-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 23:59.08 | *** join/#gpe paul__ ([pfMKvbQS8@hibernia.jakma.org) |
| 23:59.29 | dan_t | good night |
| 23:59.31 | *** part/#gpe dan_t (~dan_t@212-41-206-101.adsl.galactica.it) |
