| 00:01.40 | cmarqu | pb_: May I assign http://www.handhelds.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=562 and 563 to you? I wouldn't know what to do about this... |
| 00:01.54 | florian_ | huh?! these menus are transparent! very cool! |
| 00:02.15 | pb_ | cmarqu: sure |
| 00:02.25 | cmarqu | pb_: Thx. |
| 00:02.46 | cmarqu | pb_: What is your HH bugzilla mail ID? |
| 00:02.56 | pb_ | pb@debian.org I think |
| 00:04.24 | *** join/#gpe jg (~jg@dialup-63.214.64.25.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) |
| 00:04.29 | cmarqu | Okay, that seemed to work. |
| 00:04.42 | pb_ | cool |
| 00:05.45 | florian_ | cpu/mem monitor fails aotomatic start after login |
| 00:06.03 | pb_ | can you tell why? |
| 00:06.15 | pb_ | Damien did complain of miniapps segfaulting earlier on. |
| 00:07.10 | florian_ | not really, just noticed this happening twice - only this one and manual starting works |
| 00:08.10 | pb_ | bizarre. |
| 00:08.16 | pb_ | nothing in .xsession-errors I suppose? |
| 00:08.56 | *** join/#gpe dc___ (~dc@modem-17-50-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 00:12.17 | florian_ | don't seems to happen every login - just sometimes |
| 00:12.31 | pb_ | hmm, weird. |
| 00:12.41 | pb_ | mention it to mallum I guess, see if he has any ideas. |
| 00:20.43 | florian_ | oops |
| 00:24.36 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-21-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:24.41 | cmarqu | pb_: Can you reproduce this? http://www.handhelds.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=561 |
| 00:24.53 | cmarqu | Ah, there he is... |
| 00:27.03 | mallum | cmarqu: I think line 48 of gpe-setbg.c should say if (argc < 2) rather than (argc > 2) |
| 00:27.36 | cmarqu | mallum: No, it should load the default icon if no other icon is specified. |
| 00:28.08 | cmarqu | And then, (gpe_load_icons (my_icons) == FALSE) should be true if the icon os not there./ |
| 00:28.20 | cmarqu | But ah, the behaviour there changed, right? |
| 00:28.36 | mallum | cmarqu: oh, well it just segv's for me when I run it so I assumed that was the problem .. |
| 00:28.50 | cmarqu | Is maybe gpe_load_icons() not strict in finding files anymore? |
| 00:31.05 | mallum | cmarqu: hmm, I dont know much about gpe_*() |
| 00:31.33 | cmarqu | Well, I'll just check it in for now, with new shiny usage info. |
| 00:32.02 | pb_ | cmarqu: there have been various changes in gpe_load_icons behaviour, and it's quite possible one of those is upsetting it. |
| 00:32.16 | cmarqu | Thought so. Hmm. |
| 00:32.37 | mallum | cmarqu: cool :-) |
| 00:33.10 | pb_ | cmarqu: though, to be honest I wouldn't have expected any problems there. |
| 00:33.18 | pb_ | mallum: can you get a backtrace when it crashes? |
| 00:33.30 | cmarqu | Hmm, what was needed in GTK2 in order to get read-only text copyable with the mouse? |
| 00:33.39 | cmarqu | This would be nice for all the error dialogs. |
| 00:34.15 | mallum | cmarqu: have you tried setting a background image that is smaller than the screen and then using an app which does transparency ? |
| 00:34.17 | cmarqu | "GPE-ERROR: Unable to load icon "/usr/local/share/pixmaps/gpe-default-g.png": Failed to open file '/usr/local/share/pixmaps/gpe-default-g.png': No such file or directory" -- this is long, but it works as expected. Hmm. |
| 00:34.38 | cmarqu | mallum: No. |
| 00:34.52 | pb_ | yes, it's a bit verbose. We could probably lose the first bit of that without any trouble. |
| 00:35.13 | cmarqu | If there is a fix required, I'm likely not to know what it is. |
| 00:35.35 | cmarqu | (this was for mallum :) |
| 00:37.00 | pb_ | incidentally, to answer your earlier question: no, I can't reproduce that failure. |
| 00:37.41 | cmarqu | mallum: when it segfaults, you don't give it any file? |
| 00:38.02 | cmarqu | mallum: Maybe your PREFIX "/share/pixmaps/gpe-default-bg.png" is currupted or something? |
| 00:39.08 | mallum | cmarqu: it segfualts when I pass am image to it |
| 00:39.11 | mallum | cmarqu: too |
| 00:39.21 | cmarqu | Hmm. |
| 00:40.00 | mallum | cmarqu: let me sort out some space on my ipaq and run gdb on it |
| 00:40.09 | mallum | cmarqu: I checked with strace and that gave nothing |
| 00:40.33 | mallum | cmarqu: its obviously something screwy on my ipaq as its working for everyone else |
| 00:40.58 | cmarqu | mallum: Thx. I need to go to bed now, please update the bugreport if there is news, or just tell me here, I'll read it in the awaylog. |
| 00:41.13 | mallum | cmarqu: ok cool, its no biggy |
| 00:41.25 | cmarqu | Night everybody |
| 00:41.33 | pb_ | cmarqu: night |
| 00:42.51 | mallum | pb_: librootimage makes no allowances for the _X_ROOTPIXMAP id being smaller than the actual root window right ? |
| 00:43.37 | jg | mallum: pixmap id's are pretty arbitrary. |
| 00:44.03 | pb_ | mallum: not as far as I know. |
| 00:44.24 | jg | resource ID's in general are formed as a product of the connection number (internal to the X server) and then the low bits allocated upwards. |
| 00:45.04 | mallum | jg: I mean being smaller in dimentions rather than ID |
| 00:45.13 | jg | oh. |
| 00:45.34 | jg | that makes a bit more sense. |
| 00:45.47 | mallum | jg: but its good to know that resource ID's are allocated that way :-) |
| 00:46.35 | jg | mallum: they are pretty arbitrary. |
| 00:47.18 | jg | mallum: what happens is that the server hands the client a range of ID's it can allocate from; Xlib then allocates them until it runs out, and then it asks the server for some more; repeat until done. |
| 00:49.15 | mallum | oh jg, what happened to the fonts this week ? everything still going to plan ? |
| 00:50.25 | jg | mallum: think so, but anna had her board of directors to deal with and went to NYC; we hope she'll have time to read the contract (and sign it) Monday. |
| 00:50.59 | jg | Jim Lyles had a death in the family, so nothing happened on the task to tune the fonts this week. |
| 00:52.46 | jg | mallum: and I had to deal with rms over the copyright... |
| 00:53.01 | jg | Nothing like that to get me very grumpy. |
| 00:53.18 | jg | but I think/home he's now happy; if not, that is his problem. |
| 00:54.01 | moray | jg: ah... hope you recover from him ;) |
| 00:54.43 | jg | moray: he got my goat, as I'd just happened to have seen he'd been harrassing the LKML over gnu/linux yet again. |
| 00:55.07 | jg | I tried to be civil in my mail, but did not entirely succeed. |
| 00:55.37 | moray | jg: (hm, surely the LKML would be just the *wrong* people to harrass, given that the list is explicitly about the kernel?) |
| 00:55.39 | *** join/#gpe treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 00:55.44 | *** join/#gpe clutch|desktop (~clutch@mke-65-30-159-68.wi.rr.com) |
| 00:56.11 | jg | moray: yes, but that never stopped RMS, or as far as I can see, slowed him down. |
| 00:56.26 | clutch|desktop | what would be a good GUI package manager (like synaptic) for GPE? |
| 00:56.26 | mallum | jg: arg, I dont envy you :( |
| 00:56.42 | moray | clutch|desktop: well, if you'd like to write one for us... ;) |
| 00:56.49 | jg | moray: he's done this so much that he now does short messages with hyperlinks to his gnu/linux faq. |
| 00:57.01 | jg | moray: truly disgusting. |
| 00:58.20 | mallum | moray: I run gnu/uclibc/X Windows/Linux ;-) |
| 00:58.45 | pb_ | mallum: careful, you will upset jg terribly if you say things like that. |
| 00:59.09 | mallum | pb_: ooh maybe I should have stuck Gnome in there too |
| 00:59.22 | moray | mallum: although with Debian etc. the whole thing becomes more amusing as you introduce the possibility of using, e.g. the NetBSD kernel |
| 00:59.39 | pb_ | mallum: you must now wash your keyboard out with carbolic, burn Stallman in effigy, and write out "The X Window System" five thousand times. |
| 00:59.42 | moray | mallum: at which point, the user experience stays the same but it certainly is no longer Linux ;) |
| 00:59.52 | moray | pb_: ha |
| 01:00.14 | jg | moray, mallum: he had the gall to suggest that he could negotiate better than I could over the license, after I have spent a year educating bitstream. Along with a lecture about the DFSG being more recent than the FSF guidelines; that really got me steaming. We did the MIT copyright in 1985, for crise's sake..... |
| 01:01.02 | florian_ | clutch|desktop: you want one ore want to code one? |
| 01:01.29 | mallum | do you think this would be a good time to all listen too http://www.jwz.org/why-cooperation-with-rms-is-impossible.mp3 ? |
| 01:02.20 | moray | mallum: you can just laugh at his nightclub to get over that though ;) |
| 01:02.30 | pb_ | heh |
| 01:03.00 | mallum | My names JWZ, I own a nightclub and wrote a screen saver that looks like the matrix that dont work on windows |
| 01:03.13 | mallum | Everyone one elses software sucks |
| 01:03.16 | moray | jg: well, it's pretty clear that RMS is off in a world of his own; I guess this shouldn't be too surprising, given it's true of a lot of computer programmers etc. |
| 01:04.28 | mallum | Cool LA Law is on with amanda donahue :))) |
| 01:05.01 | clutch|desktop | florian_: I would like one as I don't know how to code (yet) |
| 01:05.04 | clutch|desktop | :-) |
| 01:05.21 | jg | moray: not world, universe.... |
| 01:05.30 | moray | jg: lol |
| 01:08.34 | mallum | The Pugs are getting big |
| 01:08.51 | florian_ | clutch|desktop: i think there is a python gui, but i don't know if it's up to date... but i think there will be one, soon |
| 01:09.06 | moray | mallum: so are you taking them to FOSDEM? ;) |
| 01:09.16 | *** join/#gpe Bullet-Man-2 (Servo888@bgp01031502bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 01:09.18 | Bullet-Man-2 | hello |
| 01:09.26 | mallum | moray: I think they need pet passports to do that |
| 01:09.31 | moray | mallum: yeah, presumably |
| 01:09.35 | mallum | moray: plus Sid would no way let me take them |
| 01:09.42 | pb_ | mallum: only to come back again I think :-) |
| 01:09.53 | moray | mallum: although I suppose it would be possible by now, compared to a few years ago.. |
| 01:09.58 | mallum | pb_: hehe |
| 01:10.20 | mallum | they'd probably really enjoy, they love people which is good |
| 01:10.25 | moray | ah right |
| 01:10.48 | mallum | arnie, the little black one sits there and watches TV which is quite scary |
| 01:10.54 | moray | ha |
| 01:11.31 | Bullet-Man-2 | hey I got a 3835, should I get the 9000 build or 6000? |
| 01:12.57 | mallum | pb_: does the new png ipkg fix things ? |
| 01:13.20 | pb_ | mallum: apparently it fixed jsmanrique's problem, so I assume it will work for everyone else as well. |
| 01:13.30 | pb_ | mallum: I built some new bootstrap images but they are still uploading. |
| 01:13.36 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 01:14.09 | Bullet-Man-2 | pb_: should which build should I get if I run the 3835? The 9000 build or 6000 build of GPQ? |
| 01:14.12 | Bullet-Man-2 | GPE* |
| 01:14.53 | pb_ | Bullet-Man-2: you mean 3600 and 3900, right? use the 3600 one. |
| 01:15.00 | Bullet-Man-2 | yea |
| 01:15.06 | Bullet-Man-2 | whoops sry stupid me :-( |
| 01:15.26 | Bullet-Man-2 | ok ill see how this build looks |
| 01:16.38 | Bullet-Man-2 | GRR wince killed my boot manager :(.. |
| 01:19.13 | florian_ | clutch|desktop: pikpak is its name.... |
| 01:19.18 | dc___ | hrm |
| 01:19.39 | moray | hello dc___ |
| 01:19.46 | dc___ | moray: morning |
| 01:19.48 | treke | thereis any other kind? |
| 01:19.55 | mallum | dc___: aha |
| 01:20.46 | dc___ | mallum: oh hey eh. |
| 01:21.05 | dc___ | mallum: how do I define the dock's colours and mbmenu's transparency? |
| 01:21.06 | mallum | dc___: whats up with the panel apps segfualting ? |
| 01:21.32 | mallum | dc___: see /usr/share/matchbox/themes/bluebox/theme.desktop |
| 01:23.18 | dc___ | mallum: oh yeah...let me try the pannel apps again |
| 01:23.35 | mallum | dc___: can you launch one from a term ? |
| 01:23.37 | Bullet-Man-2 | stupid me... I just needed to hold down the Joypade and reset =-(... Why am I sooo slow |
| 01:23.45 | dc___ | mallum: I am. |
| 01:23.50 | dc___ | mallum: just segfault |
| 01:23.50 | mallum | dc___: cool |
| 01:23.57 | dc___ | mallum: latest update from unstable. |
| 01:23.59 | dc___ | mallum: not cool! |
| 01:24.16 | mallum | dc___: thats why its called unstable :-) |
| 01:24.28 | mallum | dc___: can you do a matchbox -v |
| 01:25.00 | dc___ | 0.4pre.20030127 |
| 01:25.19 | dc___ | miniapm works.. |
| 01:25.22 | dc___ | aswell as minilite |
| 01:25.31 | moray | dc___: it would surely be against the trades description act if it didn't segfault from time to time? |
| 01:25.41 | florian_ | good night all! |
| 01:25.43 | dc___ | moray: obviously. |
| 01:25.46 | dc___ | florian_: ! |
| 01:25.49 | moray | night florian_ |
| 01:26.08 | dc___ | moray: but I've had my fair share of matchbox errors earlier today. |
| 01:27.06 | mallum | dc___: what apps do seg then ? |
| 01:28.10 | dc___ | mallum: minivol, miniapm |
| 01:28.30 | dc___ | minisys |
| 01:28.39 | dc___ | the non gtk ones |
| 01:28.48 | pb_ | minilite isn't actually gtk either |
| 01:29.01 | dc___ | oh well. |
| 01:29.04 | dc___ | heh |
| 01:29.08 | dc___ | mallum: all your ones ;p |
| 01:29.21 | moray | dc___: you sure you didn't install the 'nomallum' package? |
| 01:29.22 | pb_ | minitheme and gpe-bluetooth are the only gtk dockapps that leap to mind. |
| 01:29.41 | dc___ | pb_: or am I wrong in thinking you did minilite |
| 01:29.49 | pb_ | dc___: you are not wrong. |
| 01:29.59 | mallum | dc___: I suggest you downgrade to 0.3.6 |
| 01:30.12 | pb_ | dc___: though most of the code was borrowed from minivol |
| 01:30.33 | dc___ | pb_: well, it seems to work better in this case, feel proud |
| 01:30.37 | dc___ | mallum: :} |
| 01:30.43 | mallum | dc___: or run gdb on a dock app so I know why its segfualting |
| 01:30.48 | pb_ | dc___: I do! |
| 01:31.02 | dc___ | oh wait, I know. |
| 01:31.33 | dc___ | pb_: how did we fix that libpng problem in the end? |
| 01:31.38 | mallum | s/minivol/minilite/ |
| 01:31.44 | pb_ | dc___: mallum made a new one. |
| 01:31.58 | dc___ | in unstable? |
| 01:32.01 | pb_ | yeah |
| 01:32.11 | dc___ | let me try upgrading then |
| 01:32.19 | mallum | dc___: yeah I failed to read pb's mind that he was building gtk packages against a newer version :( |
| 01:32.25 | mallum | ;-) |
| 01:32.34 | dc___ | mallum: hehe |
| 01:32.48 | pb_ | mallum: the version of libpng that the packages were built against doesn't make any difference. |
| 01:33.17 | mallum | pb_: oh ? |
| 01:33.43 | pb_ | mallum: the undefined symbol was in libpng itself, not something linked against it. |
| 01:34.16 | mallum | pb_: how come it hadn't caused a problem before, or had this been around a while and only just discovered ? |
| 01:34.30 | dc___ | mallum: do any gpe apps make use of the accept and help buttons dialog windows can have in matchbox? |
| 01:34.52 | pb_ | mallum: I would guess that some other library that gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders was linked against used to export __div0 by mistake and has now stopped doing so. |
| 01:35.19 | mallum | dc___: not that I know of |
| 01:35.31 | pb_ | mallum: because the bug only shows up on new installations (since nobody else tends to run gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders), it's hard to say exactly when it started happening. |
| 01:35.36 | mallum | dc___: opie-x11 does though |
| 01:35.48 | dc___ | mallum: how do we use them? |
| 01:35.52 | mallum | pb_: ah ok, well at least its fixed now :-) |
| 01:36.41 | dc___ | mallum: heh, mini* still segfaults. |
| 01:36.42 | dc___ | oh well |
| 01:36.42 | mallum | dc___: you put a _NET_WM_CONTEXT_HELP in WM_PROTOCOLS and then you app gets messaged when there pressed |
| 01:37.03 | pb_ | mallum: it's kind of puzzling how libpng ended up with that reloc in the first place. The only place __div0 is called is from __udivsi3 and its friends, and if you manage to link in the latter you ought to get the former as well. Bizarre. |
| 01:37.05 | mallum | dc___: oh well ... |
| 01:38.01 | mallum | dc___: maybe downgrade the matchbox package to a slightly earlier one from my experimental |
| 01:38.23 | mallum | dc___: that latest one has lots of experimental panel stuff in it thats probably causing problems |
| 01:38.27 | dc___ | oh no... |
| 01:38.45 | dc___ | no more poppy things left on the inside of my fedex package |
| 01:39.02 | pb_ | gutted. |
| 01:39.03 | mallum | dc___: but unless I can get it to segfualt theres little I can do, unless you run gdb on a panel app |
| 01:39.21 | dc___ | I fear I lack the space for gdb |
| 01:39.23 | mallum | dc___: and give me the backtrace |
| 01:39.48 | mallum | dc___: ok I suggest you downgrade to a slightly earlier one and wait for the next ipkg |
| 01:40.15 | pb_ | dc___: you can use gdbserver with a cross gdb. |
| 01:40.25 | mallum | dc___: you wont lose any noticeable functionality |
| 01:40.30 | pb_ | or catchsegv |
| 01:41.16 | dc___ | pb_: how does that work? |
| 01:41.26 | pb_ | dc___: which? |
| 01:41.38 | dc___ | gdbserver |
| 01:41.52 | mallum | dc___: does killing the panel and restarting it help at all ? |
| 01:42.13 | mallum | dc___: do you have xprop installed ? |
| 01:42.29 | pb_ | dc___: on the ipaq, do "gdbserver broken-app localhost:1234". on another machine, invoke arm-linux-gdb on the same executable and do "target remote ipaq:1234". |
| 01:43.32 | pb_ | then use gdb as normal. |
| 01:46.47 | dc___ | mallum: is it me...or is hh.org matchbox cvs not entirely upto date? |
| 01:48.36 | mallum | dc___: well I have a lot of new stuff thats not in CVS |
| 01:48.58 | dc___ | mallum: quite. |
| 01:49.03 | mallum | dc___: but CVS is more up to date than the latests ipkgs |
| 01:49.27 | mallum | dc___: if I put this stuff into CVS it wouldn't even build |
| 01:50.39 | mallum | dc___: you could try building an ipkg from CVS and see if that fixes your problem .. |
| 01:51.53 | mallum | dc___: does restarting the panel fix things ? |
| 01:51.53 | *** join/#gpe dc_ (~dc@modem-199-45-60-62.vip.uk.com) |
| 01:52.09 | mallum | dc_: do you have xprop installed ? |
| 01:52.29 | dc_ | mallum: desktop or iPAQ? |
| 01:52.48 | mallum | dc_: either, as long as your desktop can connect to the ipaqs display |
| 01:54.55 | mallum | dc_: run xprop , then click the xprop pointer on the dock and paste what you get here |
| 01:55.47 | mallum | dc_: does mbmenu / monolaunch run ok btw ? |
| 01:56.19 | dc_ | mallum: mbmenu gives me a white box |
| 01:57.00 | mallum | dc_: does it give you a menu when you click on it ? |
| 01:57.20 | dc_ | no |
| 01:58.37 | mallum | dc_: did you get xprop running ? did you restart the dock ? |
| 01:59.50 | dc_ | ack. I just tried to install gdb...but ipkg has hung |
| 02:00.14 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 02:00.19 | pb_ | you're probably out of space. |
| 02:00.24 | dc_ | yes |
| 02:00.50 | mallum | dc_: Id just downgrade the ipkg to http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/experimental/matchbox_0.4pre.20030126-1_arm.ipk |
| 02:01.38 | dc_ | I guess. |
| 02:01.46 | dc_ | ack. |
| 02:01.57 | dc_ | now I have to find these stray files that gdb installed. |
| 02:02.18 | mallum | dc_: its a hard old life ;-) |
| 02:04.31 | mallum | dc_: I will build a newer ipkg over the weekend too - I fixed a lot of panel bugs in that |
| 02:05.05 | mallum | dc_: byw bluethingy theme looks nice if its the one on scap |
| 02:07.39 | dc_ | :) |
| 02:08.04 | Bullet-Man-2 | im getting errors like it can't find png files |
| 02:08.26 | pb_ | Bullet-Man-2: be sure you have the very latest libpng12 package from unstable. |
| 02:08.36 | pb_ | Bullet-Man-2: then re-run /usr/lib/ipkg/info/libgtk2.0-0.postinst |
| 02:08.42 | Bullet-Man-2 | ok |
| 02:13.23 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@CPE-203-45-115-161.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 02:13.43 | Bullet-Man-2 | says "Cannot load loader /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.2.0/loaders/libpixbufloader-png.so |
| 02:15.00 | pb_ | Bullet-Man-2: that means your libpng12 is still too old. |
| 02:15.15 | Bullet-Man-2 | its a clean install =\ |
| 02:15.18 | Bullet-Man-2 | hmm |
| 02:15.26 | pb_ | be sure to get the latest from unstable. |
| 02:15.30 | Bullet-Man-2 | ok |
| 02:15.40 | pb_ | it was updated about 6 hours ago. |
| 02:16.36 | pb_ | if you have unstable in ipkg.conf, then "ipkg update; ipkg install libpng12-0" should do the job. |
| 02:18.34 | mallum | bedtime for me g'night all |
| 02:18.43 | dc_ | :/ |
| 02:32.28 | pb_ | ah, neat. |
| 02:32.35 | pb_ | the new gpe-conf shows up in mbdesktop "Settings" folder. |
| 02:32.45 | dc_ | oh oh |
| 02:32.58 | pb_ | but, sadly, it reveals numerous deficiencies in mbdesktop's formatting. |
| 02:35.12 | dc_ | oh dear. |
| 02:35.15 | dc_ | poor mallum |
| 02:35.41 | pb_ | well, they aren't new deficiencies, I think he knew about them already. |
| 02:35.59 | pb_ | but previously they didn't tend to show up except with languages other than English. |
| 02:37.10 | pb_ | see scap |
| 02:43.10 | dc_ | ah Isee |
| 02:44.01 | pb_ | indeed |
| 02:53.55 | pb_ | right, new bootstrap images uploaded. phew. |
| 03:06.42 | pb_ | doh, florian's new gpe-conf still puts ipaq.png in the wrong directory. |
| 03:06.59 | dc_ | ! |
| 03:07.19 | dc_ | hrm |
| 03:07.32 | dc_ | I can't work out what I should do for my physics courseword. |
| 03:07.33 | dc_ | k |
| 03:07.41 | dc_ | :\ |
| 03:07.50 | dc_ | something with electromagnets :) |
| 03:08.05 | dc_ | and lots of power, that makes sounds. |
| 03:08.42 | pb_ | ah, is this the practical investigation thing? |
| 03:08.47 | dc_ | yes |
| 03:08.56 | pb_ | yeah, I remember that. |
| 03:09.06 | dc_ | what did your do? |
| 03:09.51 | pb_ | either Peltier-effect heat pumps, or something to do with transistor amplifiers. I can't remember which was the mock and which was the real one. |
| 03:10.03 | dc_ | hehe |
| 03:10.22 | pb_ | neither was unduly successful, from what I recall. |
| 03:10.40 | dc_ | :] |
| 03:10.55 | dc_ | the suggested ones this year area very boring. |
| 03:11.48 | pb_ | they usually are, I think. what kind of stuff do they suggest? |
| 03:12.02 | dc_ | things like. |
| 03:12.21 | dc_ | what is the best lagging material for a boiler tank. |
| 03:12.36 | dc_ | and factors affecting the stopping distance of a toy car. |
| 03:12.54 | dc_ | my problem is power. |
| 03:13.12 | pb_ | yeah, those do sound rather dull. |
| 03:13.16 | dc_ | and obtaining oversized capacitors. |
| 03:13.43 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 03:14.02 | dc_ | and sleep... |
| 03:14.03 | dc_ | :] |
| 03:14.11 | dc_ | my poor eyes |
| 03:14.38 | pb_ | heh |
| 03:15.40 | pb_ | bedtime for me too, I guess. |
| 03:16.14 | dc_ | yes... |
| 03:16.18 | dc_ | nigght |
| 03:16.21 | pb_ | night :-) |
| 07:01.00 | *** join/#gpe jimhill (~jimhill@216.184.13.24) |
| 08:02.09 | *** part/#gpe jimhill (~jimhill@216.184.13.24) |
| 08:27.14 | *** part/#gpe clutch|desktop (~clutch@mke-65-30-159-68.wi.rr.com) |
| 11:21.49 | *** join/#gpe jsmanrique (jsmanrique@cmr-212-89-7-59.telecable.es) |
| 11:31.21 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 11:32.10 | PaxAnima | morning |
| 12:13.07 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:13.25 | *** join/#gpe jsmanrique (jsmanrique@cmr-212-89-7-59.telecable.es) |
| 12:13.41 | jsmanrique | pb_: good news: your h3600 image boots fine in my ipaq |
| 12:13.49 | pb_ | jsmanrique: great! |
| 12:13.58 | jsmanrique | pb_: sad news: it still doesn't connect to internet |
| 12:14.08 | pb_ | ah, not so great. |
| 12:14.16 | pb_ | this is with the Ethernet card, right? |
| 12:14.33 | jsmanrique | pb_: I update using a CF Memory card |
| 12:15.00 | jsmanrique | pb_: after that I unplugged it and plug the CF Network card, and nothing happens |
| 12:15.10 | pb_ | jsmanrique: what does logread say when the CF network card is inserted? |
| 12:15.30 | jsmanrique | pb_: nothing appears in the terminal |
| 12:15.47 | jsmanrique | pb_: as used to happpens when I worked |
| 12:15.57 | pb_ | jsmanrique: type logread and see if anything happens. |
| 12:17.07 | jsmanrique | pb_: do you say this?: |
| 12:17.07 | jsmanrique | Oct 23 13:37:35 familiar daemon.info cardmgr[292]: watching 2 sockets |
| 12:17.08 | jsmanrique | Oct 23 13:37:35 familiar daemon.info cardmgr[293]: starting, version is 3.2.3 |
| 12:17.08 | jsmanrique | Oct 23 13:37:35 familiar daemon.info cardmgr[293]: unsupported card in socket 0 |
| 12:17.08 | jsmanrique | Oct 23 13:37:36 familiar daemon.info cardmgr[293]: product info: "Fast hernet" |
| 12:17.08 | jsmanrique | , "CF Size PC Card", "1.0" |
| 12:17.09 | jsmanrique | Oct 23 13:37:36 familiar daemon.info cardmgr[293]: manfid: 0x0149, 0xc1ab fun |
| 12:17.11 | jsmanrique | ction: 6 (network) |
| 12:17.44 | dan_t | hello all |
| 12:18.13 | pb_ | jsmanrique: that's interesting. |
| 12:18.48 | pb_ | jsmanrique: try editing /etc/pcmcia/config. find the line that says "manfid 0x0149, 0xc1ab", and comment out (with a #) the "version" line above it. |
| 12:22.58 | jsmanrique | pb_: I have this: |
| 12:22.59 | jsmanrique | card "Linksys NP10T Ethernet" |
| 12:22.59 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:22.59 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:22.59 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:22.59 | jsmanrique | card "LinkSys Network Everywhere NP100" |
| 12:23.01 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:23.03 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:23.05 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:23.16 | pb_ | jsmanrique: that's right. comment out or delete the first "version" line. |
| 12:23.43 | jsmanrique | pb_: ok |
| 12:23.57 | pb_ | then do /etc/init.d/pcmcia restart |
| 12:24.46 | jsmanrique | let's try it |
| 12:33.09 | *** join/#gpe ekirnam (jsmanrique@cmr-212-89-7-59.telecable.es) |
| 12:33.18 | ekirnam | pb_: guess what happenned? |
| 12:33.25 | ekirnam | it works :-) |
| 12:33.30 | pb_ | cool :-) |
| 12:34.02 | ekirnam | now, time for my h3100 and my h3850 |
| 12:34.14 | pb_ | suggest you file a bug against pcmcia-cs in bugzilla asking jamey to fix the config file in the package. |
| 12:34.35 | ekirnam | pb_: yes |
| 12:35.31 | ekirnam | another thing |
| 12:35.56 | ekirnam | it seems that I can't suspend this using on/off button while I am in login screen |
| 12:36.27 | pb_ | that's strange. |
| 12:36.31 | pb_ | but it works after you have logged in? |
| 12:37.08 | ekirnam | yes |
| 12:37.29 | pb_ | weird. I'll look at that later and see if I can find out what's going wrong. |
| 12:39.59 | jsmanrique | settings screen is empty, is that right? |
| 12:40.39 | pb_ | yeah, I don't think the latest gpe-conf made it into the bootstrap images. |
| 12:40.49 | pb_ | update to the latest from unstable and you should see some stuff in settings. |
| 12:41.10 | jsmanrique | ok |
| 12:41.27 | jsmanrique | same with tasks? |
| 12:41.49 | pb_ | Tasks is a special folder that shows the currently running applications. |
| 12:42.02 | pb_ | If it's empty, that just means you don't have any programs running. |
| 12:43.04 | jsmanrique | pb_: ok, ok, I thought it was like todo or similar |
| 12:43.32 | pb_ | ah, no. |
| 12:43.49 | pb_ | The name is probably a bit confusing. If you can think of a better one, we can ask mallum to change it. |
| 12:45.39 | jsmanrique | pb_: where is familiar bugzilla, or whatever you told me before? |
| 12:46.03 | pb_ | jsmanrique: http://handhelds.org/bugzilla |
| 12:54.33 | jsmanrique | sad news about h3100, it doesn't boot yet with recent image/kernels |
| 12:54.47 | jsmanrique | Booting Linux image |
| 12:54.47 | jsmanrique | Uncompressing Linux............................................ done, booting th |
| 12:54.47 | jsmanrique | e kernel. |
| 12:55.09 | jsmanrique | that's from bootstrap-pb5-h3100 image :( |
| 12:57.29 | pb_ | :-( |
| 13:02.09 | pb_ | I think the 3100 is probably going to stay broken until someone who has one of those machines debugs it. |
| 13:02.23 | pb_ | Dave Neuer should be getting his back from unbricking soon, so perhaps he can take a look. |
| 13:03.22 | jsmanrique | the "unbricking" word sounds to strong for me :-) |
| 13:04.33 | pb_ | Yeah :-) He managed to make his 3100 into a brick while trying to upgrade the bootldr. I'm not sure exactly what went wrong, but he had to send it to CRL to be jtagged. |
| 13:05.02 | jsmanrique | well, at least CRL is there for this kind of things |
| 13:05.11 | pb_ | yes. |
| 14:03.10 | *** join/#gpe Bullet-Man-2 (Servo888@bgp01031502bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 14:03.24 | Bullet-Man-2 | hey you guys |
| 14:17.02 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-21-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:17.30 | PaxAnima | hey, mallum |
| 14:18.17 | mallum | hey PaxAnima |
| 14:22.47 | Bullet-Man-2 | hi Pex and Mall |
| 14:23.54 | Bullet-Man-2 | xmodem is killing me!!! Why did they have to make it sooo slow?.. |
| 14:26.55 | pb_ | Bullet-Man-2: so it wouldn't eat into ymodem's market share. |
| 14:27.17 | Bullet-Man-2 | =\ |
| 14:28.04 | Bullet-Man-2 | they should introduce a new standard for the COM port... Wait... USB... Ethernet... Firewire... Doh! |
| 14:28.06 | mallum | Bullet-Man-2: you should try amodem, that would take years ;-) |
| 14:28.13 | Bullet-Man-2 | lol |
| 14:29.15 | pb_ | Bullet-Man-2: ymodem is about twice as fast as xmodem. consider using that instead. |
| 14:29.42 | Bullet-Man-2 | yea but I'm sending over Familiar =\ |
| 14:29.48 | Bullet-Man-2 | it wont let me use ymodem |
| 14:29.59 | pb_ | why not? |
| 14:30.27 | Bullet-Man-2 | When you go "load root" it says "ready for XMODEM download" |
| 14:30.33 | pb_ | Bullet-Man-2: set ymodem 1 |
| 14:30.45 | Bullet-Man-2 | maybe I should try that |
| 14:31.10 | Bullet-Man-2 | sending over 5 megs is taken 20 minutes :-( |
| 14:31.19 | Bullet-Man-2 | Just like the good old days of 56k's... |
| 14:31.35 | Bullet-Man-2 | 28.8... 14.4 =\ |
| 14:32.17 | Bullet-Man-2 | *sigh* How technology has grown |
| 14:49.24 | *** join/#gpe jsmanrique (jsmanrique@cmr-212-89-7-59.telecable.es) |
| 14:49.30 | jsmanrique | hello again |
| 14:49.37 | jsmanrique | I've tried the hard way with my h3100 |
| 14:49.55 | jsmanrique | I've installed v0.6.1 bootstrap |
| 14:50.02 | jsmanrique | then upgraded libc6 |
| 14:50.14 | jsmanrique | then upgraded ipkg (from unstable) |
| 14:50.27 | jsmanrique | then installed xserver-tiny-h3600 |
| 14:50.42 | jsmanrique | and now, after all, matchbox doesn't want to run :/ |
| 14:51.10 | jsmanrique | ~ # matchbox |
| 14:51.11 | jsmanrique | verdana-8:bold|fixed font not found, giving up... |
| 14:51.11 | jsmanrique | ~ # |
| 14:51.32 | jsmanrique | after installed the bootstrap image I ran postinst |
| 14:51.40 | jsmanrique | to install m$ fonts |
| 14:52.14 | jsmanrique | I have ran /usr/lib/ipkg/info/matchbox.postinst too |
| 14:52.29 | jsmanrique | but nothing has changed |
| 14:53.00 | jsmanrique | the xserver is running, I am seeing the X cursor in my ipaq's screen |
| 14:53.28 | mallum | jsmanrique: do you have any fonts in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ttf ? |
| 14:54.19 | jsmanrique | ~ # ls /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ttf/ |
| 14:54.20 | jsmanrique | Andale_Mono.ttf Verdana_Bold.ttf Verdana_Italic.ttf |
| 14:54.20 | jsmanrique | Verdana.ttf Verdana_Bold_Italic.ttf |
| 14:54.20 | jsmanrique | ~ # |
| 14:54.41 | mallum | jsmanrique: can you as root run 'fc-cache -f -v' ? |
| 14:55.11 | jsmanrique | ~ # fc-cache -f -v |
| 14:55.12 | jsmanrique | fc-cache: "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts": caching, 0 fonts, 1 dirs |
| 14:55.12 | jsmanrique | fc-cache: "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/ttf": caching, 5 fonts, 0 dirs |
| 14:55.12 | jsmanrique | fc-cache: "/usr/share/fonts": no such directory, skipping |
| 14:55.12 | jsmanrique | fc-cache: "/root/.fonts": no such directory, skipping |
| 14:55.12 | jsmanrique | fc-cache: succeeded |
| 14:55.25 | jsmanrique | and now it seems that something begans in my ipaq |
| 14:55.29 | mallum | jsmanrique: now try running matchbox |
| 14:55.55 | jsmanrique | mallum: thanks |
| 14:56.01 | mallum | jsmanrique: cool np |
| 14:56.12 | mallum | jsmanrique: though the above should have happened automatically |
| 14:56.24 | mallum | jsmanrique: I guess postinst needs to be updated to run fc-cache |
| 14:56.52 | mallum | jsmanrique: also the fixed font is built into the XServer so that should never fail :( |
| 14:57.46 | jsmanrique | nice |
| 14:58.02 | jsmanrique | I could install gtk2 in my h3100, without updating the kernel |
| 14:58.18 | jsmanrique | gtk2, not gpe2.. |
| 14:59.57 | jsmanrique | ~ # free |
| 14:59.57 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:59.57 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:59.57 | jsmanrique | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:59.57 | jsmanrique | Total: 14624 14204 420 |
| 14:59.58 | jsmanrique | ~ # df |
| 15:00.00 | jsmanrique | Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 15:00.02 | jsmanrique | /dev/mtdblock/1 16128 1504 5624 65% / |
| 15:00.04 | jsmanrique | tmpfs 7312 68 7244 1% /mnt/ramfs |
| 15:00.06 | jsmanrique | ~ # |
| 15:00.46 | jsmanrique | hmm |
| 15:00.54 | jsmanrique | this needs a terminal |
| 15:01.04 | jsmanrique | I have to install rxvt-aa |
| 15:02.59 | mallum | jsmanrique: I dont think the 3100 has the resources to support 3100's , the 16Mb Ram ones anyway |
| 15:08.33 | *** join/#gpe jsmanrique (jsmanrique@cmr-212-89-7-59.telecable.es) |
| 15:08.46 | jsmanrique | hello again |
| 15:09.39 | mallum | jsmanrique: hello |
| 15:16.29 | pb_ | mallum: bug 562 can be closed, right? |
| 15:16.53 | jsmanrique | mallum: you have a scap of my ipaq in scap's siet |
| 15:16.55 | jsmanrique | mallum: you have a scap of my ipaq in scap's site |
| 15:22.50 | mallum | pb_: yeah, if you dont have any other comments |
| 15:22.55 | mallum | jsmanrique: no |
| 15:23.57 | pb_ | mallum: not really. Colin might have some remarks, but you can still add comments to a bug after it has been marked resolved. |
| 15:25.46 | jsmanrique | mallum:no? what? |
| 15:25.59 | mallum | pb_: okey, it trivial for me to make mbdesktop export the pixmap id btw |
| 15:26.03 | mallum | jsmanrique: looking now |
| 15:26.44 | pb_ | mallum: cool |
| 15:26.49 | mallum | jsmanrique: looks good eh ? |
| 15:27.00 | mallum | The setting icons look really nice too |
| 15:27.46 | jsmanrique | mallum: yes, this looks good |
| 15:27.58 | pb_ | Yeah, florian did those I think. It's a shame that the text labels for the settings applets don't come out too well in all cases. |
| 15:29.26 | mallum | yeah he should maybe make the titles slightly shorter |
| 15:29.50 | mallum | changing cofiguration to just config would fix it |
| 15:30.05 | pb_ | It looks like "Date and Time" and "Owner Information" would still have trouble. |
| 15:30.23 | mallum | Date/Time and Owner info ? |
| 15:32.20 | mallum | pb_: we could maybe have a xsettings key that specified the background and whatever desktop program could read it and export the pixmap id |
| 15:32.21 | pb_ | Yeah, I guess that would work. I'm a bit surprised that "Date and time" isn't fitting in anyway. |
| 15:32.46 | mallum | pb_: your welcome to tweak the algorithm |
| 15:33.04 | pb_ | Presumably it's just a case of increasing the width you give to Pango slightly. |
| 15:33.32 | mallum | pb_: Also it makes sense to have shorter titles so the the menu is more usable |
| 15:33.53 | mallum | pb_: yeah except its not pango, just plain old xft |
| 15:34.03 | pb_ | mallum: I thought you changed it to use pango for the layout. |
| 15:35.39 | mallum | pb_: yeah I did, but it didn't seem to give any improvement over my existing code - remember ? |
| 15:36.06 | mallum | pb_: its still in the source |
| 15:36.22 | pb_ | I seem to remember it definitely helped for some cases (especially the French names that had lots of little words, which is probably the case with"Date and Time" too) |
| 15:36.56 | pb_ | The only thing it didn't help with was single words that were just too long to fit at all. |
| 15:38.12 | *** join/#gpe jsmanrique (jsmanrique@cmr-212-89-7-59.telecable.es) |
| 15:39.55 | mallum | pb_: well I guess when .desktop files get populated with translations I'll try again and if its good build an alternate matchbox package with pango deps |
| 15:40.55 | pb_ | ok |
| 15:44.20 | mallum | pb_: I can probably improve the xft rendering for deailing with multibyte chars too |
| 15:47.22 | jsmanrique | well, |
| 15:47.31 | jsmanrique | it is time to study a bit for next exams |
| 15:47.33 | jsmanrique | thanks |
| 15:47.39 | mallum | pb_: do you think something like /GPE/Background/Type [ defualt|solid|gradien|pixmap-tiled|pixmap-centerd|pixmap-stretched] |
| 15:47.57 | mallum | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:48.02 | mallum | would amke sense ? |
| 15:48.05 | jsmanrique | tomorrow I will update my h3850 to gpe2 too |
| 15:48.17 | *** part/#gpe jsmanrique (jsmanrique@cmr-212-89-7-59.telecable.es) |
| 15:48.43 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, sounds reasonable to me. |
| 15:49.22 | pb_ | or just have a single string value that contains both the type and any parameters. |
| 15:52.01 | mallum | yeah thatd be cool |
| 15:52.53 | pb_ | something like "pixmap-centred http://www.crl.hpl.hp.com/who/people/gettys/Gettys.JPG", or "gradient vertical 0xff0000 0x00ff00" I suppose |
| 15:54.00 | *** join/#gpe g (~asd@DC-29-67.bpb.bigpond.com) |
| 15:54.30 | cmarqu | mallum: FWIW, I still thinkn the menus are a wee bit too transparent, especially in http://handhelds.org/scap/port.25192.png |
| 15:54.32 | mallum | pb_: yeah cool, though I tend to use #rrggbb to define colors |
| 15:55.33 | pb_ | sure. I guess it probably ought to understand colours in whatever formats are traditional for X, so you could say "gradient horizontal BileGreen LuridYellow" or something. |
| 15:55.54 | mallum | cmarqu: yeah. do you want to play with /usr/share/matchbox/themes/bluebox/theme.desktop and figure out a more appropriate value for the menu transparency key ? |
| 15:56.12 | cmarqu | mallum: Okay, once I installed it (doing that now) |
| 15:56.48 | mallum | cmarqu: cool |
| 15:57.20 | mallum | also transparency is totally broken on 3100's .. though I dont know how bigger deal that is ( it will look crap anyway ) |
| 16:05.51 | cmarqu | Did that suspend/resume problem ever resolved? 2months ago, the mailing lists were full of it. |
| 16:06.33 | pb_ | cmarqu: I think so. You need bootldr 2.19.55 and kernel 2.4.19 for best effect. |
| 16:06.59 | cmarqu | Thing is, I wonder if I should touch my bootloader in order to copy the bootgpe2 image. |
| 16:07.03 | cmarqu | pb_: Ah. Thanks. |
| 16:07.10 | cmarqu | Is 2.4.19 in bootgpe2? |
| 16:07.14 | pb_ | Yeah. |
| 16:07.18 | cmarqu | Cool. |
| 16:21.15 | cmarqu | # cu -s 115200 -l /dev/ttyS0 |
| 16:21.16 | cmarqu | cu: open (/dev/ttyS0): Permission denied |
| 16:21.16 | cmarqu | cu: /dev/ttyS0: Line in use |
| 16:21.29 | cmarqu | WTH? mnicom doesn't have a problem with it. |
| 16:23.44 | pb_ | Dunno, sounds weird. It might be trying to do some locking that minicom doesn't. |
| 16:23.48 | pb_ | Maybe use strace to see what's up. |
| 16:24.38 | cmarqu | I did, but ... |
| 16:24.45 | cmarqu | creat("/var/lock/TMP0000001d1c", 0644) = 3 |
| 16:24.45 | cmarqu | write(3, " 7452\n", 11) = 11 |
| 16:24.45 | cmarqu | close(3) = 0 |
| 16:24.45 | cmarqu | link("/var/lock/TMP0000001d1c", "/var/lock/LCK..ttyS0") = 0 |
| 16:24.45 | cmarqu | rmdir("/var/lock/TMP0000001d1c") = -1 ENOTDIR (Not a directory) |
| 16:24.48 | cmarqu | unlink("/var/lock/TMP0000001d1c") = 0 |
| 16:24.50 | cmarqu | open("/dev/ttyS0", O_RDWR|O_NONBLOCK) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) |
| 16:24.53 | cmarqu | write(2, "cu: open (/dev/ttyS0): Permissio"..., 41cu: open (/dev/ttyS0): Permission denied |
| 16:24.56 | cmarqu | ) = 41 |
| 16:25.00 | cmarqu | rmdir("/var/lock/LCK..ttyS0") = -1 ENOTDIR (Not a directory) |
| 16:25.01 | cmarqu | unlink("/var/lock/LCK..ttyS0") = 0 |
| 16:25.04 | cmarqu | write(2, "cu: /dev/ttyS0: Line in use\n", 28cu: /dev/ttyS0: Line in use |
| 16:25.06 | cmarqu | ) = 28 |
| 16:25.08 | cmarqu | _exit(1) = ? |
| 16:25.14 | cmarqu | As root even. |
| 16:25.15 | pb_ | Wow, that's very strange. |
| 16:25.38 | cmarqu | ENOTDIR -- it should be a file, no? |
| 16:26.02 | pb_ | Yeah. It seems to just be using both unlink() and rmdir() in an attempt to cover all bases. |
| 16:26.11 | cmarqu | Ah. |
| 16:26.46 | cmarqu | Well, it's minicom then, even though I hate it. |
| 16:27.43 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 16:31.12 | cmarqu | Phew. bootldr install successful. |
| 16:32.06 | pb_ | Phew :-) |
| 16:35.54 | *** join/#gpe jg (~jg@dialup-63.214.110.218.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) |
| 16:42.41 | mallum | jg: hey |
| 16:43.05 | jg | mallum: hi |
| 16:53.38 | *** join/#gpe flypiper (~netwinder@12-222-141-210.client.insightBB.com) |
| 16:53.54 | *** join/#gpe Bullet-Man-2 (Servo888@bgp01031502bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 17:01.43 | cmarqu | pb_: Is there a reason that the ppp modules are not loaded by default? |
| 17:06.12 | pb_ | cmarqu: I think they are meant to be loaded automatically when you try to start ppp. |
| 17:06.41 | cmarqu | Hmm. |
| 17:07.04 | cmarqu | When you start a ppp connection from the host? Doesn't seem to work. |
| 17:07.26 | pb_ | Ah. |
| 17:07.48 | pb_ | Maybe write to the familiar list and ask what's up, or file against ppp in bugzilla. |
| 17:08.10 | cmarqu | Okay. |
| 17:09.09 | cmarqu | Hmm, and postinst is missing the -b switch to ntpdate. |
| 17:09.31 | pb_ | What does that do? |
| 17:09.50 | cmarqu | It updates the time even when the local time is totally off. |
| 17:09.59 | mallum | pb_: do you have much experience of branching with CVS ? Does it work very well ? |
| 17:10.00 | pb_ | Ah, ok. |
| 17:10.02 | cmarqu | I.e., prevents 7 Apr 08:42:32 ntpdate[662]: Can't adjust the time of day: Invalid argument |
| 17:10.14 | pb_ | mallum: sure, it seems to work fine. |
| 17:10.33 | pb_ | cmarqu: right, yeah, I see. File against familiar-postinst for that I suppose. |
| 17:10.54 | cmarqu | All in all, the bootgpe2 imag seems very nice. Yay. |
| 17:11.02 | mallum | pb_: cool, Im gonna branch matchbox cvs to have an 'highly-unstable' branch ;-) |
| 17:11.23 | pb_ | mallum: good idea |
| 17:11.49 | pb_ | mallum: or, alternatively, you could make an 0.4 branch and continue unstable work on the HEAD |
| 17:12.06 | pb_ | up to you which way round you prefer to work, really. |
| 17:12.42 | pb_ | cmarqu: cool. |
| 17:13.23 | cmarqu | pb_: What is the canonical way to restart X after I ran postinst? |
| 17:13.50 | pb_ | cmarqu: /etc/init.d/gpe-dm stop; /etc/init.d/gpe-dm start |
| 17:14.06 | pb_ | I guess I should make it understand "restart" really. |
| 17:14.18 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 17:14.32 | cmarqu | pb_: Okay. I'll maybe add that to my bugreport, it would be nice to mention it in the postinst output. |
| 17:14.32 | mallum | pb_: btw what time do you plan on getting here on Friday ? |
| 17:15.15 | pb_ | mallum: probably around 1pm |
| 17:15.35 | pb_ | maybe more towards 1:30 |
| 17:15.54 | mallum | pb_: cool, I may tell dc_ to aim to get here a bit earlier then just in case his train is delayed etc |
| 17:16.12 | mallum | pb_: and we can play 2 player halo before you arrive ;-) |
| 17:16.23 | pb_ | heh, right, cool. |
| 17:17.45 | mallum | pb_: Im quite looking forward to it, should be good fun |
| 17:17.58 | pb_ | Yeah, I certainly hope so. |
| 17:18.05 | mallum | pb_: and it seems we'll get the chance to heckle RMS ;-) |
| 17:18.26 | pb_ | yes indeed. |
| 17:19.58 | mallum | and then get clubbed to death by thousands of loyal followers ... |
| 17:20.11 | pb_ | quite right. |
| 17:28.44 | cmarqu | Is there a trick required in order to move the menu icon to the left (I made room for it)? |
| 17:29.42 | pb_ | No, you should just be able to choose "Move" and then drag it. The only thing to watch out for is that the drag won't have any visible effect until you reach a place with enough room for the icon. |
| 17:30.31 | cmarqu | Yeah, I remeber that, but it doesn't seem to work. Maybe the room is not quite enough... |
| 17:30.49 | pb_ | Could be, yes. |
| 17:31.25 | cmarqu | The default order is a bit strange, but I guess there is no easy way to determine that? |
| 17:31.40 | pb_ | Not as far as I know, unfortunately. |
| 17:31.50 | pb_ | I think it's pretty much random. |
| 17:32.00 | cmarqu | Okay. |
| 17:33.07 | mallum | cmarqu: the dragging is a little bust at the moment |
| 17:33.33 | mallum | cmarqu: you can fix the order by editing the order of entrys in ~/.mbdock |
| 17:33.43 | cmarqu | mallum: Okay, thanks. |
| 17:34.00 | cmarqu | I xkilled mbdesktop. How do I get it back? |
| 17:34.09 | mallum | cmarqu: mbdesktop & |
| 17:34.31 | cmarqu | mallum: It's not in the menus? |
| 17:34.45 | pb_ | cmarqu: Mmm, that's a good point. Maybe xkill is a bit too dangerous to have in the default menus. |
| 17:34.52 | cmarqu | Indeed. |
| 17:35.14 | pb_ | I guess you might also wipe out mbdock or something by mistake, at which point you might be hosed. |
| 17:35.16 | cmarqu | I wanted to kill gpe-gallery, but could not switch to it before I killed mbdesktop/ |
| 17:35.20 | mallum | cmarqu: nope. But its controlled by the soon to be released matchbox-conf |
| 17:37.50 | cmarqu | And... why doesn't it add minitime to the dock by default? Seems to be useful really. |
| 17:39.03 | pb_ | Yes, that might be a good idea. |
| 17:39.51 | mallum | is that moray who wrote the defualt populator ? |
| 17:40.13 | pb_ | Yeah. I don't think he feels especially proprietary towards it though. |
| 17:40.21 | cmarqu | The help bubble for the gpe-what icon is white-on-blue and has a hard-to-read font. |
| 17:40.56 | pb_ | Yeah, I should make the font bigger. I quite liked the white on blue, but I guess it ought to be configurable. |
| 17:40.59 | mallum | I have to hack the -geometry switch support into the dockapps, so intial placement can be a little nicer ( clock positioned far right for example ) |
| 17:41.34 | cmarqu | pb_: Well, it looks a bit strange that it doesn't match the rest of the help bubles. |
| 17:43.25 | pb_ | cmarqu: Yeah, I guess. Bugzilla again then :-) |
| 17:43.40 | cmarqu | Okay. |
| 17:44.29 | mallum | pb_: The select call for mbdock was commented out for some testing. I plan to reenable it soon |
| 17:45.09 | pb_ | mallum: ok |
| 17:49.10 | cmarqu | mallum: MenuTransparency=230 looks good to me. |
| 17:50.18 | mallum | cmarqu: cool, can you scap it ? |
| 17:50.39 | cmarqu | mallum: Sure, but it will look different a bit of course. |
| 17:51.37 | cmarqu | mallum: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.7668.png |
| 17:51.40 | mallum | cmarqu: okey I will play with it too |
| 17:52.04 | mallum | cmarqu: oh yeah that looks much better |
| 17:52.55 | cmarqu | ~ # olirc: relocation error: olirc: undefined symbol: gtk_text_new |
| 17:53.02 | mallum | cmarqu: I just updated minitime to take a geomerty flag, so it should be possible to now position it far right in the dock on startup |
| 17:53.22 | cmarqu | mallum: Cool. |
| 17:54.00 | mallum | cmarqu: its pretty easy for me to add it to other dockapps aswell |
| 17:55.08 | cmarqu | Question is... should it really be a geometry option, or maybe just a relative position? |
| 17:56.01 | cmarqu | I.e., some option that says "start filling up the dock from the right" |
| 17:57.18 | mallum | cmarqu: how about a negative geometry ? |
| 17:57.35 | mallum | cmarqu: that may 'just work' |
| 17:58.09 | cmarqu | Then you still need to handle what to do then a user rotates from landscape to portrait. |
| 17:58.37 | cmarqu | Say, he specified 300 or -300. What if your width is only 240 suddenly? |
| 17:58.56 | mallum | yeah, but the dock may in the futur switch to vertical on a rotation |
| 17:59.28 | cmarqu | mallum: Ah, so that it is always along the short side? |
| 17:59.30 | mallum | but Im not sure about that |
| 17:59.34 | mallum | cmarqu: yeah |
| 17:59.41 | cmarqu | That might work. |
| 17:59.51 | cmarqu | Maybe we need to ask some usability experts. |
| 17:59.51 | mallum | or always along the long side |
| 18:01.04 | mallum | yeah |
| 18:01.52 | mallum | I guess we could make it an option on the dock to put gravity on any dock apps that are past the midpoint of the dock during a rotation |
| 18:02.13 | mallum | cmarqu: I'll add it to the TODO and have a play with it |
| 18:02.34 | cmarqu | mallum: Cool |
| 18:02.34 | mallum | cmarqu: the dock is a lot cleaner ( code wise ) than it was, so its easier for me to ry new things out with it |
| 18:04.08 | cmarqu | mallum: What is "Mult" for in xkbd? |
| 18:04.29 | cmarqu | Seems to be "AltGr"? |
| 18:05.40 | pb_ | cmarqu: it's actually mode-switch, just mislabeled. |
| 18:05.58 | mallum | cmarqu: it allows you to access an extra 3rd char that may or maynot have been defined |
| 18:06.13 | pb_ | so yeah, it would typically be what you have bound to altgr on a desktop. |
| 18:06.24 | cmarqu | Okay. |
| 18:06.46 | pb_ | On a UK keyboard, the Euro symbol is on Mode-4. |
| 18:07.07 | cmarqu | pb_: Is there infrastructure in place to say "make my GPE as 'German' as possible"? |
| 18:07.17 | pb_ | cmarqu: no, but that's something I've been thinking about recently. |
| 18:07.38 | cmarqu | pb_: Thought so that you thought so :) |
| 18:08.09 | pb_ | cmarqu: most of the individual pieces exist by now, it's just a case of adding the infrastructure to bring everything together. |
| 18:08.21 | cmarqu | I see. |
| 18:08.47 | pb_ | I think it would be nice to have an XSETTINGS property, GPE/Language or some such, which contained the user's currently favoured locale setting. |
| 18:11.13 | pb_ | It would need to be supported by the launchers, and we would have to invent some friendly front-end to set it. |
| 18:12.39 | cmarqu | Yup. |
| 18:13.08 | cmarqu | The frontend could allow the user to also switch the xkbd layout etc. |
| 18:13.13 | pb_ | Ideally the front-end would be a small graphical thing using country flags or the like, that we could also embed in the login screen. |
| 18:19.08 | cmarqu | Hmm. Since we have logger available, how about writing GPE messages to a special syslogfile, and then have an easy way to look at them? |
| 18:19.46 | *** join/#gpe dan_t (~dan_t@212-41-206-101.adsl.galactica.it) |
| 18:20.00 | dan_t | hello all |
| 18:20.01 | cmarqu | This wouldn't tell you that the kernel killed your app because of OOM which might be interesting. |
| 18:20.06 | cmarqu | Hi dan_t |
| 18:20.30 | pb_ | cmarqu: I think we probably just want a convenient interface to logread, actually. |
| 18:21.16 | dan_t | i'm looking to something _small_ to do to improve gpe, any indication ? |
| 18:21.23 | pb_ | Maybe that and .xsession-errors, which is where apps' stderr will do. |
| 18:21.27 | pb_ | dan_t: have you checked the wiki? |
| 18:21.39 | pb_ | dan_t: we were just talking about a locale chooser, maybe you would like to have a go at that? |
| 18:21.39 | cmarqu | pb_: Or that, yeah. I remember a gtail. |
| 18:22.48 | dan_t | pb_: i'm looking to something really small. i have not to much time. start a new projec is too impegnative for me |
| 18:24.00 | dan_t | pb_: when i'll have more time i'll go to write a bluettoth manager |
| 18:24.13 | pb_ | dan_t: we already have a half-done bluetooth manager; you would be welcome to help improve that. |
| 18:24.20 | pb_ | see gpe-bluetooth in cvs and unstable |
| 18:24.23 | dan_t | pb_: great |
| 18:24.41 | dan_t | pb_: i go to look at it |
| 18:24.57 | pb_ | dan_t: if you want a really small project, the best suggestions I can think of are either check bugzilla for outstanding issues and try to fix them, or just play with gpe2 for a bit until you notice something that needs improving. |
| 18:25.39 | pb_ | most of the stuff in the wiki is indeed for new programs that need to be written, though some of them are pretty small. |
| 18:26.10 | dan_t | pb_: i'll check bugzilla |
| 18:26.14 | pb_ | for example, the enhanced panelclock probably wouldn't be too much work; same with the locale selector. |
| 18:26.17 | pb_ | dan_t: ok, cool. |
| 18:26.48 | pb_ | I know gpe-nmf has several bugs open against it, maybe you would like to look at some of those. |
| 18:28.03 | dan_t | pb_: gpe-nmf ? what is ? |
| 18:28.10 | pb_ | dan_t: audio player |
| 18:28.31 | pb_ | http://gpe.handhelds.org/projects/GPE-media.shtml |
| 18:29.12 | dan_t | pb_: my firrst bug: i don't like gpe logo :) i have sostituited it with new gnome's one on my bootscreen |
| 18:29.22 | pb_ | ha! |
| 18:29.48 | cmarqu | Such heresy! |
| 18:30.11 | pb_ | quite :-) |
| 18:30.18 | pb_ | dan_t: if you would like to design a better logo, that would be cool as well. |
| 18:30.31 | dan_t | cmarqu: is your work the logo ? :) |
| 18:30.51 | cmarqu | dan_t: No :) It's Owens. |
| 18:31.08 | dan_t | pb_: i think i'm unabel to do a better job, i'm not good with artswork |
| 18:42.46 | mallum | pb_: its fine for me to merge between either branch at any time I want right ? |
| 18:45.58 | mallum | bbl |
| 18:59.15 | dan_t | bye all |
| 18:59.17 | *** part/#gpe dan_t (~dan_t@212-41-206-101.adsl.galactica.it) |
| 19:04.31 | cmarqu | what theme is that? http://handhelds.org/scap/port.25229.png |
| 19:04.46 | cmarqu | And does it come with that cool mouse cursor? |
| 19:06.34 | pb_ | cmarqu: the cool cursor is provided by libxcursor. I'm not sure what you need to do to get hold of it. |
| 19:07.05 | cmarqu | Okay, it can wait |
| 19:07.10 | pb_ | cmarqu: the theme is a Bluecurve clone that Damien is working on. |
| 19:07.43 | cmarqu | I'll ask him then. |
| 19:57.37 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 21:05.22 | *** join/#gpe TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-69-3-0-23.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 21:34.26 | *** join/#gpe Bullet-Man-2 (Servo888@bgp01031502bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.48 | *** join/#gpe pigeon (~pigeon@CPE-203-45-115-161.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 21:48.30 | Bullet-Man-2 | I'm looking for the CF install howto |
| 21:55.36 | pb_ | it's in handhelds.org/~pb somewhere |
| 21:55.42 | pb_ | install-cf.html probably |
| 22:33.58 | Bullet-Man-2 | ok |
| 22:51.39 | pb_ | hi pigeon |
| 22:55.14 | pigeon | pb_: morning! |
| 22:55.41 | pigeon | pb_: Hmm... what's going on with familiar unstable these days? |
| 22:55.48 | pb_ | pigeon: what d'ya mean? |
| 22:56.40 | pigeon | pb_: Hmm... I did an ipkg update + upgrade yesterday. It upgraded all those xlibs/matchbox etc, which is good. But then I realized a lot of x programs basically segv and won't run anymore. |
| 22:56.56 | pb_ | pigeon: ah, sucks. which ones segv? |
| 22:57.10 | pigeon | miniapm, minitime, mbmenu, qiv |
| 22:57.26 | pigeon | Could be more. |
| 22:57.31 | pb_ | that's interesting. Damien was complaining that all the miniapps segv'd for him as well. |
| 22:57.33 | pigeon | I ended up going back :P |
| 22:58.05 | pb_ | you should mention it to mallum. |
| 22:58.08 | pigeon | Those mini* I could understand as they came along with matchbox... but I don't know why stuff like qiv will segv too. |
| 22:58.21 | pigeon | Major xlibs changes it seems. |
| 22:58.26 | pigeon | pb_: nod... |
| 22:58.26 | pb_ | no, that's strange. I don't have qiv on my ipaq, but the miniapps run OK for me. |
| 22:58.46 | pigeon | That as well. |
| 22:59.00 | pigeon | xstroke and xmonobut run properly. |
| 22:59.09 | pigeon | A lot of mini* won't. |
| 22:59.12 | pb_ | can you get a backtrace from qiv? |
| 22:59.31 | pigeon | Hmm not anymore, not easily. |
| 22:59.57 | pb_ | ok, fair enough |
| 23:01.12 | pb_ | might be worth filing a report in bugzilla, if you can isolate which package is to blame for the problem. |
| 23:01.18 | pb_ | I guess xlibs is the most likely candidate. |
| 23:01.49 | pigeon | Hmm right... the bad thing I've already gone back :\ |
| 23:03.30 | pb_ | well, you could install the new packages one at a time until something breaks again. |
| 23:03.40 | pigeon | Ah. |
| 23:03.45 | pigeon | Good one. |
| 23:03.53 | pigeon | Let me try it now then. |
| 23:07.41 | pigeon | Alrighty. |
| 23:07.47 | pigeon | After upgrading matchbox. |
| 23:07.56 | pigeon | mini* segv |
| 23:08.03 | pigeon | Haven't upgraded x stuff yet even. |
| 23:08.12 | pigeon | qiv not segv-ing yet. |
| 23:08.33 | pb_ | ok |
| 23:08.46 | pigeon | And just a quick question while you're here, any way to get matchbox not to run mbdesktop? |
| 23:09.36 | pb_ | The easiest way is to avoid the mbstart script and invoke just the bits that you want manually. |
| 23:09.52 | pigeon | Hmm interesting. miniapm minisys minitime minivol all segv, but miniwave doesn't. |
| 23:10.24 | pb_ | Strange. |
| 23:10.42 | pb_ | Do you have minilite installed? I think Damien said that that one went on working for him also. |
| 23:11.12 | pigeon | minilite runs. |
| 23:11.20 | pb_ | I think mallum is going to add some kind of configurator for matchbox to control whether it runs the desktop or not. I'm not sure offhand how that will work. |
| 23:11.38 | pb_ | I was trying to persuade him to separate it out into an x-desktop-manager virtual, but he didn't seem to like that idea very much. |
| 23:11.51 | pigeon | Heh. |
| 23:15.40 | pigeon | Ok downgrading matchbox fixes all, so it's matchbox for those mini* |
| 23:15.49 | pigeon | And as for qiv, probably xlibs. |
| 23:16.08 | pb_ | Right. |
| 23:24.27 | *** join/#gpe walters (walters@verbum.org) |
