| 02:17.07 | *** join/#gpe pierre_ (~pierre@AClermont-Ferrand-201-1-1-181.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 02:42.05 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb_@dsl-62-3-66-201.zen.co.uk) |
| 03:03.00 | *** join/#gpe mibus (~mibus@134.c.002.ade.iprimus.net.au) |
| 03:03.22 | mibus | hello all |
| 03:03.24 | mibus | hi pb_ |
| 03:03.32 | mibus | ibot: seen dc_ |
| 03:03.32 | | mibus: i haven't seen 'dc_' |
| 03:03.34 | mibus | ibot: seen dc__ |
| 03:03.34 | | i haven't seen 'dc__', mibus |
| 03:04.52 | pb_ | hi mibus |
| 03:05.18 | mibus | checked out the new iconlist stuff yet? |
| 03:05.44 | mibus | i fixed #144 again, but for a different cause ;) |
| 03:07.28 | pb_ | yeah, I saw your email. I've checked it out in the CVS sense, but that's as far as I've got so far. |
| 03:07.44 | pb_ | sounds cool though. |
| 03:08.48 | mibus | yeah |
| 03:08.55 | mibus | popups are made much easier |
| 03:09.05 | mibus | itll stop the huge code duplication between gpe-fm and gpe-am :) |
| 03:09.21 | pb_ | great. |
| 03:09.26 | mibus | i remember looking over gpe-fm at one stage |
| 03:09.37 | mibus | and im thinkin 'gee, this looks familiar' :) |
| 03:09.40 | pb_ | heh. |
| 03:11.22 | mibus | i think i might add the 'update-view-as-icons-are-added' like gpe-fm does |
| 03:11.29 | mibus | so the view 'fills up' with icons |
| 03:11.31 | mibus | not just appears |
| 03:11.39 | mibus | not for appmgr, just fm |
| 03:11.52 | mibus | oh hey, did you ever get a chance to check out that pixbuf compositing thing? |
| 03:12.05 | pb_ | no, not yet. |
| 03:12.17 | mibus | any thoughts? |
| 03:12.32 | pb_ | if you can make a testcase that demonstrates the problem, I'll look at it. Otherwise, I don't think there is a lot I can do. |
| 03:12.33 | mibus | were there arm-specific tweaks to gtk2.0 that werent in 2.1? |
| 03:12.40 | mibus | its REAL easy |
| 03:12.48 | mibus | install the 2.0 2.0 (not the 2.1 that is there now) |
| 03:12.50 | mibus | run appmgr |
| 03:12.58 | mibus | scroll around (drag the bar up & down) |
| 03:13.02 | mibus | upgrade to 2.1 |
| 03:13.07 | mibus | do the same |
| 03:13.11 | mibus | its very noticbly slower |
| 03:13.26 | mibus | as in, appmgr is a dodgy app all of a sudden |
| 03:13.44 | mibus | i know my coding can suck :) |
| 03:13.45 | pb_ | I need a more scientific test than that. |
| 03:13.48 | mibus | but not quite like that |
| 03:14.09 | pb_ | As in, you need to make a program that composites an image a thousand times or something, so that I can run it with "time" and see the difference between the two libraries. |
| 03:14.11 | mibus | well short of cross-compiling gtk2.0 and 2.1 (which i never managed to do last time i tried) there isnt much more I can do |
| 03:14.42 | mibus | i can tell you that its not (directly) appmgr related, as I noticed the difference on exactly the same binary |
| 03:14.51 | mibus | just did 'ipkg upgrade gtk...' and it was slower |
| 03:15.53 | mibus | i wonder if my mum's 233 desktop is slow enough to notice the difference ;) |
| 03:16.00 | mibus | oh wait, unless its arm-specific, doh |
| 03:16.11 | mibus | i seem to recall someone mentioning that 2.0 had patches applied |
| 03:16.20 | mibus | any idea whether one of them might have touched gdk-pixbuf? |
| 03:16.37 | pb_ | Both 2.0 and 2.1 have patches applied to gdk-pixbuf, but nothing related to compositing. |
| 03:17.11 | mibus | well maybe its not directly compositing related |
| 03:17.20 | pb_ | Right. That is why you need to make a test case. |
| 03:17.24 | mibus | the only pixbuf ops im using is _composite and _render |
| 03:18.18 | mibus | mmm |
| 03:18.24 | mibus | i might have to try cross-compiling again |
| 03:18.29 | pb_ | Okay. So, make one testcase for each of those and see which one exhibits the problem. |
| 03:18.30 | mibus | or bashing the skiffs to death for a few hours :) |
| 03:18.55 | mibus | i suppose, I only have to run a compile for 2.0, and thats assuming i cant find an old copy... |
| 03:19.02 | mibus | pb_: fair 'nuff |
| 03:19.36 | pb_ | You can get the 2.0 ipk from the feed. I don't think there should be any need for you to compile GTK. |
| 03:19.51 | mibus | mm |
| 03:19.56 | mibus | is 2.0 still in the feed? |
| 03:20.07 | mibus | then again, last I saw fmenu was still there :) |
| 03:22.05 | mibus | ah shoot |
| 03:22.12 | mibus | cant do it now anyway, no cross-compiler - doh! |
| 03:26.23 | mibus | gah - google reckons http://handhelds.org/pipermail/gpe/Week-of-Mon-20020107/000139.html is relevant - well duh, i wrote it aaaages ago :) |
| 03:29.23 | pb_ | it's pretty rare for packages to be removed from the feed; I would be surprised if gtk 2.0 wasn't still there. |
| 03:30.23 | mibus | yeah |
| 03:30.31 | mibus | given i cant write a test app for my ipaq ATM |
| 03:30.38 | mibus | im just gonna try for debs of them |
| 03:31.09 | mibus | (my mums PC doesnt have USB *or* a cross-compiler... the latter is easier to fix though :) |
| 03:31.24 | pb_ | you could run a test app on one of the cluster machines. |
| 03:31.52 | mibus | could yes, but theres nothing to say someone isnt going to be compiling at the time, which would tend to skew the results :) |
| 03:31.58 | mibus | ill try it here first |
| 03:32.44 | mibus | and ill upload the test if i get a chance |
| 03:32.49 | pb_ | ok. |
| 03:32.52 | mibus | or just try it tomorrow @ home |
| 03:33.33 | mibus | grr - im gonna have to reget all gtk2 packages :( |
| 03:34.24 | mibus | actually |
| 03:34.29 | mibus | ill just leave it for this weekend |
| 03:34.39 | mibus | when i reflash my ipaq with 0.6 |
| 03:34.39 | mibus | i REALLY want to find this no-tabs bug |
| 03:55.48 | mibus | (which shouldve really had top priority over appmgr-alpha, but there you go... ;) |
| 05:07.50 | *** join/#gpe PaxAnima (~petter@v058b.studby.ntnu.no) |
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| 09:10.29 | PaxAnima | quiet here today.. |
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| 11:02.40 | *** join/#gpe mallum (~mallum@pc-80-193-218-63-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 11:02.43 | pb_ | hi mallum |
| 11:08.36 | *** join/#gpe HET2 (~diman@chello080110105196.509.15.vie.surfer.at) |
| 11:09.47 | mallum | hey pb_ |
| 11:23.03 | pb_ | mallum: 3900 suspend/resume works now :-) |
| 11:23.17 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 11:28.07 | pb_ | back presently |
| 11:50.25 | *** join/#gpe pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cam.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:55.51 | mallum | pb_: you have bt kind of working too ? |
| 11:55.53 | pb_ | mallum: yeah |
| 11:56.46 | mallum | pb_: nice |
| 11:57.04 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, it's starting to look like quite a usable unit now. |
| 11:59.51 | mallum | pb_: excellent, does it 'feel' much faster ? |
| 12:00.39 | pb_ | mallum: hard to say, I haven't actually used it interactively very much yet. |
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| 13:44.42 | *** join/#gpe pierre (~pierre@AClermont-Ferrand-201-1-1-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:36.45 | *** join/#gpe dc__ (~dctanner@async225-4.nas.onetel.net.uk) |
| 14:36.53 | pb_ | dc__: yo! |
| 14:36.59 | dc__ | I live :] |
| 14:37.04 | pb_ | heh |
| 14:37.37 | dc__ | damn isp |
| 14:37.41 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 14:37.46 | dc__ | havn't been able to get online all week :{ |
| 14:38.01 | dc__ | pb_: anyway, how's it been :)? |
| 14:38.46 | pb_ | dc__: been mostly working on the 3900. |
| 14:38.54 | pb_ | dc__: it is now a functional handheld, more or less. |
| 14:39.20 | dc__ | ooh, wow. |
| 14:39.31 | pb_ | dc__: other than that, nothing very much to report. How've things been with you? |
| 14:39.31 | moray | pb_: oh, that sounds good |
| 14:39.57 | pb_ | moray: still lacks audio and mmc drivers, but more or less everything else is in place now. |
| 14:40.01 | dc__ | pb_: school, jedi knight 2 :) |
| 14:40.07 | pb_ | dc__: heh |
| 14:40.18 | pb_ | dc__: did you ever manage to rescue that controller from the clutches of the post office? |
| 14:40.48 | dc__ | ah |
| 14:40.54 | dc__ | we're getting it tomorrow :) |
| 14:40.57 | pb_ | heh |
| 14:40.59 | pb_ | cool |
| 14:41.12 | pb_ | I'm not sure how much longer they will hold onto it . |
| 14:41.20 | dc__ | they said 3 weeks |
| 14:41.23 | pb_ | ah, okay. |
| 14:41.26 | dc__ | so I think we're fine |
| 14:41.27 | dc__ | yah |
| 14:41.31 | pb_ | I can never remember which service is which. For some of them it's only one week. |
| 14:43.06 | pb_ | :-( |
| 14:46.17 | dc__ | any interseting gpe advances... |
| 14:46.33 | pb_ | not that I can think of. |
| 14:47.25 | dc__ | :] |
| 14:47.34 | dc__ | oh, is gpe-gallery in unstable? |
| 14:47.38 | pb_ | I plan to get back to NMF tomorrow. |
| 14:47.47 | pb_ | I dunno. I can upload a gpe-gallery if there isn't one already. |
| 14:47.54 | pb_ | You want me to do that? |
| 14:48.22 | dc__ | ah yes, that'd be great. |
| 14:48.23 | pb_ | looks like no gpe-gallery there at the moment. |
| 14:48.25 | pb_ | okay. |
| 14:48.30 | pb_ | I will do it after I eat dinner. |
| 14:48.31 | dc__ | do some testing |
| 14:48.42 | pb_ | yeah |
| 14:49.02 | dc__ | cool |
| 14:50.39 | *** join/#gpe pierre (~pierre@AClermont-Ferrand-201-1-1-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:01.08 | *** join/#gpe pierre (~pierre@AClermont-Ferrand-201-1-1-53.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:06.15 | *** join/#gpe jsmanrique (jsmanrique@cmr-81-9-143-75.telecable.es) |
| 15:06.32 | jsmanrique | I am having problems updating my ipaq |
| 15:06.40 | jsmanrique | I am trying to install 0.6.1, but after boot>boot I just get the tiny Tux on the corner |
| 15:06.48 | jsmanrique | in hangs after uncompress kernel |
| 15:06.55 | jsmanrique | any idea? |
| 15:08.20 | *** join/#gpe ibot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 15:08.20 | *** topic/#gpe is is GPE | GPE Palmtop Environment | http://gpe.handhelds.org | list of tasks on the wiki: http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/CurrentThingsToDo | RIP armlinux.org, note new address for bugzilla: http://europa.debian.org/bugzilla | new CVS build ipkg of matchbox - http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/experimental | that's GPE with a G | see the outcome of the alarm summit: http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/IRCAlarmMeetingLog |
| 15:13.26 | dc__ | right |
| 15:13.29 | dc__ | hum |
| 15:13.31 | dc__ | night... |
| 15:13.41 | dc__ | need to do some more homework first. |
| 15:13.44 | dc__ | pb_: talk tomorrow. |
| 15:13.48 | dc__ | :) |
| 15:14.04 | dc__ | \q gohan |
| 15:14.07 | dc__ | arg... |
| 15:17.38 | pb_ | jsmanrique: if you see the penguin, the kernel is running. |
| 15:17.51 | pb_ | which bootstrap image did you install? |
| 15:17.57 | jsmanrique | gpe |
| 15:18.03 | jsmanrique | I think it is my fault |
| 15:18.06 | jsmanrique | as always |
| 15:18.10 | pb_ | hrm |
| 15:18.16 | pb_ | this is on your 3100? |
| 15:18.19 | jsmanrique | I didn't check that it wasn't 3100 |
| 15:18.34 | pb_ | what linuxargs is the bootldr using? |
| 15:18.38 | jsmanrique | I am downloading 3100 version now |
| 15:18.40 | pb_ | check that you have console=ttySA0 |
| 15:18.43 | jsmanrique | :) |
| 15:18.43 | pb_ | ah. |
| 15:18.52 | pb_ | if you used the 3600 image, all kinds of bad things might happen. |
| 15:18.58 | jsmanrique | give me some minutes :) |
| 15:19.08 | jsmanrique | pb_: thanks |
| 16:13.26 | mallum | viendo Episodio II mientras actualiza iPAQ ? |
| 16:13.46 | pb_ | mallum: you've gone all continental suddenly. |
| 16:14.17 | mallum | hmmm |
| 16:14.38 | mallum | pb_: did you ever make much progress in the end with gstreamer ? |
| 16:15.14 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, the current NMF code in cvs uses it. |
| 16:15.24 | mallum | pb_: cool, will check it out |
| 16:15.43 | mallum | pb_: does it work well ? |
| 16:15.46 | pb_ | mallum: there is still quite a lot of missing functionality, but it can basically play music. |
| 16:16.10 | pb_ | mallum: still a few rather sticky patches, but I am optimistic that it will turn out well in the end. |
| 16:16.13 | mallum | pb_: my mini-itx arrived today .. but I dont get it till saturday ( my b'day ) |
| 16:16.21 | pb_ | heh |
| 16:16.22 | mallum | pb_: fingers crossed |
| 16:17.27 | mallum | pb_: Im gonna have matchbox running on my TV |
| 16:17.35 | pb_ | :-) |
| 16:17.47 | mallum | pb_: The first window manager to support lirc ;-) |
| 16:19.35 | mallum | pb_: I have been heavily hacking mbdesktop recently |
| 16:19.52 | pb_ | any major advances to report? |
| 16:20.38 | mallum | pb_: hmm, well possible close to loadable module support |
| 16:20.54 | mallum | pb_: so you can have a folder you click on and it would list your bookmarks |
| 16:21.00 | pb_ | ah, top stuff. |
| 16:21.05 | mallum | pb_: for example |
| 16:21.40 | mallum | pb_: it currently lists windows |
| 16:22.17 | mallum | pb_: but Its due for a bit of a cleanup next really before I add any more code |
| 16:22.24 | mallum | pb_: its beginning to sprawl a little |
| 16:22.28 | pb_ | ah. :-/ |
| 16:22.31 | mallum | pb_: and I have to implement scrolling |
| 16:22.46 | mallum | pb_: then I'll probably make a release |
| 16:23.12 | pb_ | right, excellent. |
| 16:23.29 | mallum | pb_: I gotta then merge all this mbpixbuf stuff into matchbox |
| 16:23.47 | mallum | pb_: fix up mbmenu with it, all the dock apps ( which need a good clean up ), dock etc |
| 16:23.50 | mallum | pb_: lots todo |
| 16:23.58 | pb_ | indeed. |
| 16:24.07 | mallum | pb_: but I think it'll all be worth it |
| 16:24.14 | pb_ | good-o |
| 16:24.52 | mallum | pb_: oh, it will tile / stretch background images now too |
| 16:25.00 | pb_ | cool. |
| 17:03.14 | *** join/#gpe prpplague (~joebob@21-190.lctv-b4.cablelynx.com) |
| 17:13.12 | PaxAnima | good evening, prpplague |
| 17:25.18 | prpplague | PaxAnima: lo |
| 17:25.28 | prpplague | PaxAnima: whats up today? |
| 17:26.02 | PaxAnima | prpplague: writing booring report for my project this semester... or reading papers for the report, rather... |
| 17:26.13 | prpplague | ahh |
| 17:26.29 | mallum | prpplague: hey |
| 17:26.32 | PaxAnima | navigation by computer vision is the theme... |
| 17:26.40 | prpplague | mallum: hey dude |
| 17:26.51 | prpplague | PaxAnima: fun |
| 17:27.06 | prpplague | mallum: whats new on the mb front |
| 17:27.23 | PaxAnima | prpplague: to some extent, yeah... for my diploma next smester I think I'll do handwriting recognition... |
| 17:28.12 | prpplague | PaxAnima: do something fun like i/o concepts for the blind |
| 17:29.23 | mallum | prpplague: bits and pieces ;-) , some nice new stuff coming hopefully ... |
| 17:29.29 | prpplague | mallum: i watch the "new" PotA last night, wasn't impressed |
| 17:29.56 | mallum | prpplague: no, its a disgrace :-( |
| 17:30.21 | PaxAnima | prpplague: actually, I'm hoping to do handwiting recognition for the ipaq, inputting words instead of letters.. I'm very optimistic (a professor said he didn't think I managed to do it in time) |
| 17:30.52 | prpplague | PaxAnima: whole words? |
| 17:30.59 | PaxAnima | yes.. |
| 17:31.18 | prpplague | PaxAnima: are you gonna use symbol2word conversions? |
| 17:31.50 | PaxAnima | prpplague: not sure how I'll do it yet, but I suspect hidden markov models will be the basis |
| 17:33.54 | PaxAnima | never actually read too much or used HMM, but I tend to learn stuff rather quickly... besides: I won't reinvent the wheel too much... plan to read up on the subject and maybe extend and implement an existing method.. |
| 17:34.34 | prpplague | PaxAnima: ahh, my handwriting is terrible so i've never been able to use HR |
| 17:34.58 | PaxAnima | oh.. that bad? |
| 17:35.13 | prpplague | PaxAnima: just inconsistent |
| 17:35.51 | prpplague | i started using a type writer when i was in the 4th grade just so i didn't have to write :) |
| 17:36.43 | PaxAnima | heh.. |
| 17:37.24 | PaxAnima | maybe not use your handwriting when/if I implement and train the system then... ;) |
| 17:42.15 | prpplague | PaxAnima: lol, good idea |
| 17:46.30 | PaxAnima | on the other hand, if I do get things to work and make nice tools for training and such, maybe you can train your own input recognition.. ;) |
| 18:07.40 | prpplague | PaxAnima: thats just it, i'm so inconsistant, i'd have to train for 10 differen styles of A's |
| 18:09.01 | PaxAnima | heh.. |
| 18:09.52 | prpplague | PaxAnima: my grandfather died when i was very young so i never really met him, but everyone tells me that i write just like him |
| 18:10.38 | PaxAnima | so bad handwriting is in your genes... ;) |
| 18:21.54 | moray | prpplague: have you read about HMMs yet? I don't know whether people normally use them for handwriting, but they certainly do for speech |
| 18:22.09 | moray | PaxAnima even! ;) |
| 18:23.12 | prpplague | hmm, i'm wondering what this puppy costs - http://www.hhp.com/hhp/products/product.tpl?prodsku=99722092572134 |
| 18:23.36 | PaxAnima | moray: found a survey on it from an IEEE journal... seems like HMM is the most widely used method.. |
| 18:24.28 | PaxAnima | moray: but I plan to look more into it after I've finnished my report (due in 1 week) |
| 18:25.24 | moray | ah, okay :) |
| 18:25.31 | moray | PaxAnima: you should read my project anyway ;) |
| 18:25.50 | PaxAnima | moray: what is that about? |
| 18:26.00 | moray | http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mma29/2002/harmony/ |
| 18:26.06 | moray | uses HMMs |
| 18:26.43 | PaxAnima | ah.. I remember now |
| 18:27.09 | moray | yes, I mentioned it before - though I was reminded about it myself because I've been arranging about going back to Edinburgh to do a seminar about it |
| 18:27.32 | PaxAnima | ahh.. |
| 18:27.45 | PaxAnima | is it difficult to use HMM? |
| 18:28.21 | moray | not really, though it takes some thought to get them straight in your mind initially I'd say |
| 18:28.42 | moray | the Rabiner paper is the best thing around for an overview, but I don't really like the notation he uses |
| 18:28.47 | PaxAnima | ok.. |
| 18:28.50 | moray | too many levels of indirection in the symbols... |
| 18:29.19 | moray | in my (very short) overview in my dissertation I just write the equations in terms of the conditional probabilities directly, which makes it clearer to me at least |
| 18:29.36 | PaxAnima | as I mentioned earlier, my professor think I'm a bit optimistic, since I've never used HMM before and so on... but I think I'll pull it off... |
| 18:30.06 | moray | well, I did that stuff all in a couple of months |
| 18:30.22 | PaxAnima | I have 20 weeks.. |
| 18:30.37 | moray | roughly the same timescale then |
| 18:30.54 | moray | (assuming that's including writing the dissertation etc.?) |
| 18:31.10 | PaxAnima | yes... |
| 18:32.35 | moray | my supervisor thought I was being optimistic most of the time :) |
| 18:32.46 | PaxAnima | heh.. |
| 18:33.59 | moray | though it's fair enough for them to be careful about what they let you take on, since it's embarrassing if a student ends up getting nowhere |
| 18:34.52 | PaxAnima | yeah.. the professor thought that just doing an implementation of such a system would be too much for a diploma.. |
| 18:35.18 | PaxAnima | .. but he doesn't know me... ;) |
| 18:35.22 | moray | indeed |
| 18:35.50 | moray | if I had time I'd actually like to do a nice optimised version of my HMM code |
| 18:36.09 | PaxAnima | is implementing HMM hard? the training algorithms and so on? |
| 18:36.12 | moray | the current version works fine but amuses me greatly... |
| 18:36.41 | moray | PaxAnima: I 'cheated' on that - I train from seen data :) |
| 18:36.49 | moray | you should actually be able to use the same technique |
| 18:37.10 | moray | if you just treat the translation of a symbol to a word as the seen/unseen symbols |
| 18:37.17 | moray | then during training you have the words there |
| 18:37.38 | moray | the difficult kind of training is when you want to find an optimal set of hidden symbols but have no idea what the patterns in the data are |
| 18:38.27 | moray | you can just have 'actual words' in a Markov chain of hidden symbols, 'emitting' the seen symbols of whatever squiggles are written |
| 18:38.39 | moray | then you can train just by using frequencies etc. |
| 18:38.45 | PaxAnima | think I'll need to find a nice book or paper (maybe I'll print the Rabiner paper) or site to look at before I plunge in to it... |
| 18:39.33 | moray | I'd look at the Rabiner thing, but I'm also serious in suggesting you look at my summary - at least if you do that you can complain to me when it's not clear ;) |
| 18:39.55 | PaxAnima | heh.. maybe I will ;) |
| 18:46.41 | prpplague | ha, this is interesting - http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F004%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D338 |
| 18:47.12 | prpplague | check out the amps rating on the page, and then look at the rating actually on the battery |
| 18:49.09 | PaxAnima | prpplague: heh... must just as an illustration? |
| 18:49.46 | prpplague | PaxAnima: lol, naw, i'm holding the battery in my hand, and its 1350 |
| 18:51.12 | PaxAnima | heh.. |
| 19:07.37 | PaxAnima | time to get some sleep.. good night all |
| 19:11.39 | prpplague | PaxAnima: night |
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