| 08:27:39 | pb_ | hi mallum |
| 08:28:21 | mallum | hey pb_ |
| 08:38:31 | mallum | pb_: thinking of writing an 'mbdesktop' |
| 08:44:04 | pb_ | what would that do? |
| 08:46:19 | mallum | pb_: hmm, not sure yet still figuring that out |
| 08:47:02 | mallum | pb_: would be a very basic desktop I guess, with some sort of mime database for launching apps/'helpers' when clicked on |
| 08:50:19 | pb_ | mmm, right, could be cool. |
| 08:52:22 | mallum | only problem is, Im getting a little sick of xlib ;) |
| 08:52:32 | pb_ | hah :-) |
| 09:09:03 | pb_ | mallum: I think I can reproduce the "mmenu disappears when you click on any item" thing on my assabet. |
| 09:09:12 | pb_ | mallum: on the terminal, I see: |
| 09:09:15 | pb_ | X error (0x20): BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) (opcode: 53) |
| 09:09:48 | pb_ | bizarrely, mmenu goes on running but my mbdock seems to have died. |
| 09:13:40 | mallum | pb_: ewe |
| 09:13:59 | mallum | pb_: I dont think I've ever seen an 0x20 error before |
| 09:14:41 | mallum | pb_: can you see if it runs with '-icon 0' |
| 09:15:53 | pb_ | well, hmm, it gets weirder. I started it up a second time and now it seems to be working fine. |
| 09:16:17 | pb_ | so, I have no clue what's going on. |
| 09:22:38 | mallum | pb_: jg's new xlibs ? |
| 09:23:13 | pb_ | nope, this is 0.6 |
| 09:24:47 | mallum | damn, cant blame it on that then ;) |
| 09:26:17 | colin_werk | Hi all |
| 09:26:25 | | unstable is http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 09:26:25 | colin_werk | ibot: unstable? |
| 09:28:02 | mallum | pb_: its still working fine ? |
| 09:33:21 | pb_ | mallum: so far. |
| 09:33:43 | colin_werk | pb_: Would it be clean enough to let /etc/X11/gpe-login.setup check for libgdkxft and export the LD_PRELOAD, so that gpe-login gets AA'ed? |
| 09:39:30 | pb_ | colin_werk: Would it work to put the LD_PRELOAD in Xinit.d instead? |
| 09:40:54 | colin_werk | I guess so... |
| 09:41:01 | pb_ | Then let's do that. |
| 09:43:31 | colin_werk | I also saw that "Add new user" in gpe-login is likely too big for gpe-ownerinfo. In that case, gpe-login should use the full screen and take care to bury gpe-ownerinfo under its window if possible... |
| 09:43:56 | pb_ | Mmm, okay. I guess gpe-ownerinfo is unlikely to contain useful info if no users are defined, anyway. |
| 09:44:25 | colin_werk | Yeah. Maybe I should check for that condition too and not display ownerinfo? |
| 09:44:42 | colin_werk | Duplicated code though, etc. |
| 09:45:30 | colin_werk | But we need to figure this "always stay on top"stuff anyway, for the locking |
| 09:47:10 | pb_ | Yeah. |
| 10:59:39 | mallum | colin_werk: if you set the window type to splash, matchbox will always keep it on top |
| 11:22:06 | colin_werk | mallum: But is matchbox already running when we show gpe-login and gpe-owinerinfo? |
| 11:25:01 | pb_ | No. |
| 11:25:22 | pb_ | Oh, actually, yes if you are talking about the lock mode, but we probably shouldn't rely on that. |
| 11:25:36 | pb_ | (As in, the user might have killed matchbox and started up twm in the meantime.) |
| 11:25:57 | mallum | pb_: ywm is older than dc |
| 11:26:06 | pb_ | mallum: good grief, yes. |
| 11:50:54 | colin_werk | So can we get the xlib witchery that matchbox has to do for a splash window into gpe-login? Or maybe gdk can do it... |
| 11:56:04 | mallum | colin_werk: login shouldn't be a problem as there is no windowmanager the window can just be a gtk popup ( overide redirect ) |
| 11:58:13 | colin_werk | Cool. I'll play with that then. |
| 12:01:37 | pierre | cmarqu: I ve upload gpe-conf_0.0.3. can you test it? |
| 12:01:49 | pierre | especially the menu and ownerinfo.. |
| 12:05:53 | colin_werk | pierre: Will test when I get home, which is soonish |
| 12:08:00 | pierre | nice.. |
| 12:34:15 | mallum | pb_: how about bolting a http server on to the XSETTINGS manager and makeing all edits happen over that ? |
| 12:36:20 | pb_ | um, what gave you that idea? |
| 12:36:45 | mallum | pb_: messing about with SWILL |
| 12:36:55 | mallum | pb_: http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/swill/ |
| 12:36:59 | mallum | pb_: it rules |
| 12:38:15 | mallum | pb_: its pretty tiny too |
| 12:43:33 | colin_werk | BBL |
| 12:47:54 | pb_ | mallum: mmm |
| 12:48:18 | pb_ | mallum: trouble with anything like that is you lose network transparency. |
| 12:51:20 | mallum | pb_: we just set a root property giving the location of the http server |
| 12:52:58 | pb_ | mallum: but the http server might not be reachable at all. |
| 12:54:07 | pb_ | mallum: consider an X connection tunnelled through ssh, or a firewall that allows X but not other protocols. |
| 12:54:46 | pb_ | mallum: or a display running on a host that has multiple network interfaces, in which case you would need to somehow select the right address to use depending on where you connected from. |
| 12:55:36 | mallum | pb_: how does gconf deal with it ? |
| 12:55:59 | mallum | pb_: surely it has the same problems, its just using corba rather than http ? |
| 12:56:16 | pb_ | mallum: yes, but we don't necessarily want to repeat GConf's mistakes :-) |
| 12:57:55 | pb_ | mallum: also, the gconf model is a bit different: they have a configuration source per home directory, and the information about how you contact the server is saved in a file. The assumption is that if you are sharing a home directory, you are in a fairly homogeneous network environment and it probably isn't a big deal to reach the corba server. |
| 12:58:22 | pb_ | mallum: I would much rather the system we use was able to operate over the X protocol itself. |
| 12:58:48 | mallum | pb_: yeah sure |
| 13:07:08 | mallum | pb_: I'll play with clientmessages on it soon |
| 13:07:16 | mallum | pb_: BTW did your patch get into gtk ? |
| 13:13:13 | pb_ | mallum: which one? |
| 13:13:20 | pb_ | mallum: the gdk-pixbuf thing you mean? |
| 13:16:22 | mallum | pb_: yeah, has there been others then ? |
| 13:16:47 | pb_ | no, not that I can think of. |
| 13:16:56 | pb_ | I haven't heard anything back from the gtk guys, so I guess nothing has happened. |
| 14:04:34 | cmarqu | wonders if a community at livejournal.com (or another LJ server) could be our blog thing? |
| 14:31:29 | pb_ | cmarqu: on the bug report you just filed, I don't think gdkxft is compatible with GTK 2 at all. |
| 14:31:41 | pb_ | cmarqu: this seems like something you just have to not do. |
| 14:31:52 | cmarqu | Oh. Hmm. |
| 14:32:06 | cmarqu | I thought the error message did have some relevance. |
| 14:32:37 | pb_ | That looks like the usual "mixing gtk 1 and gtk 2 in the same program" kind of thing. |
| 14:33:08 | mallum | yeah you should run gdkxft with gtk2 |
| 14:33:25 | cmarqu | Okay then. |
| 14:33:37 | moray | mallum: ? - I thought from a while ago that I heard GDKXFT broke GTK2 stuff? |
| 14:33:50 | mallum | moray: opps I meant shouldn't |
| 14:34:07 | moray | ah, ok. |
| 14:34:07 | pb_ | cmarqu: if you preload gdkxft, it will probably drag in some other bits of GTK 1 along with itself. To be honest, it's not very desirable to have this globally preloaded anyway, as it means every program (even stuff like /bin/ls) will end up with gdkxft and gtk 1 linked in. |
| 14:34:09 | mallum | moray: that woke you up ;) |
| 14:34:55 | mallum | pb_: I think it would be more sesible to link gdkxft in at compile time with gpe apps, rather than LD_PRELOAD evil |
| 14:35:17 | cmarqu | pb_: I'm fine with just closing the bug. |
| 14:35:19 | pb_ | mallum: not all gpe people will want gdkxft anyway. |
| 14:35:40 | pb_ | maybe we can do something with LD_LIBRARY_PATH and a fake libgtk-1.2.so. |
| 14:36:17 | cmarqu | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.15358.png -- is this a gdkxft bug too? It doesn't quite fit, but the dialog could still grow |
| 14:36:28 | moray | mallum: well, as they say, post incorrect information and you'll get replies far sooner than by asking a question ;) -- don't ask me about the amount of work I have to do though... |
| 14:38:53 | pb_ | cmarqu: could well be. |
| 14:42:15 | moray | pb_: that happens even without gdkxft I think? |
| 14:48:07 | pb_ | ah. |
| 14:50:15 | mallum | cmarqu is all over the wiki |
| 14:50:18 | mallum | scap |
| 14:50:20 | mallum | I mean |
| 14:50:21 | mallum | urg |
| 14:50:25 | cmarqu | :) |
| 14:50:40 | cmarqu | Just to show some bugs to pierre |
| 14:50:49 | pb_ | crumbs, yeah. |
| 14:50:57 | pb_ | There's even a sideways cmarqu. |
| 14:51:02 | cmarqu | Envious, huh? |
| 14:51:39 | pb_ | Not the first word that occured to me, I must admit. |
| 14:51:51 | moray | though that reminds me that we should really set up a cron job to post nice-looking screenshots on the wiki, since too many of the ones people intentionally post are to show bugs ;) |
| 14:52:04 | moray | argh, I mean scap too, I blame mallum |
| 14:52:05 | pb_ | ha! |
| 14:52:24 | mallum | cmarqu: the words 'mother', 'bowl' and 'sizzors' come to mind, but I really dont want to go there ;) |
| 14:52:47 | cmarqu | Ha! |
| 14:57:59 | mallum | hometime ! |
| 15:24:35 | cmarqu | Okay, nocursor stuff is in gpe-login, didn't actually test it though. |
| 15:30:00 | pb_ | Excellent. |
| 15:32:50 | cmarqu | pb_: Is there an easy test in libgpewidget if we are running on the ipaq or not, apart from gpe_stylus_mode()? |
| 15:33:58 | pb_ | Nope. |
| 15:34:44 | cmarqu | How does gpe_stylus_mode() set? Could I use it for now to check if I want to be transparent or not? |
| 15:34:57 | cmarqu | "get set" I mean. |
| 15:55:57 | pb_ | Sure, yeah. It just reads the X property that's set by the detect-stylus program. |
| 15:58:11 | cmarqu | Okay, cool. |
| 18:30:27 | mallum | arg, matchbox CVS is totally bolloxered |
| 18:31:02 | pb_ | hell, how did that happen? |
| 18:31:21 | mallum | pb_: something with that /cvs changing to /usr/cvs |
| 18:31:38 | pb_ | oh that. |
| 18:32:12 | mallum | pb_: I changed all mu Root entries, but I just did a fresh checkout and a lot of stuff is missing, which CVS says is added in my usual build dir :( |
| 18:32:12 | pb_ | obviously you don't use CVS often enough, the change was weeks ago :-) |
| 18:32:34 | pb_ | what exactly does cvs status say about it? |
| 18:33:41 | mallum | pb_: for tray.c, a file in libmbdock ( thats missing on a checkout ) |
| 18:33:44 | mallum | File: tray.h Status: Locally Added |
| 18:33:44 | mallum | Working revision: New file! |
| 18:33:44 | mallum | Repository revision: No revision control file |
| 18:33:44 | mallum | Sticky Tag: (none) |
| 18:33:44 | mallum | Sticky Date: (none) |
| 18:33:44 | mallum | Sticky Options: (none) |
| 18:33:50 | pb_ | cvs commit? |
| 18:33:52 | mallum | ( tray.h rather ) |
| 18:34:00 | mallum | yeah I'll commit again |
| 18:34:48 | BBrox | pb_: did you try Tremor ? |
| 18:35:07 | pb_ | BBrox: no, what is that? |
| 18:35:41 | mallum | pb_: the same after a commit |
| 18:35:45 | mallum | File: tray.h Status: Locally Added |
| 18:35:45 | mallum | Working revision: New file! |
| 18:35:45 | mallum | Repository revision: No revision control file |
| 18:35:45 | mallum | Sticky Tag: (none) |
| 18:35:45 | mallum | Sticky Date: (none) |
| 18:35:45 | mallum | Sticky Options: (none) |
| 18:35:56 | BBrox | pb_: Xiph's integer Ogg codec :-) |
| 18:35:59 | pb_ | mallum: did the commit actually do anything? |
| 18:36:07 | mallum | pb_: nope :( |
| 18:36:23 | pb_ | bizarre. |
| 18:36:40 | pb_ | suggest you move the file out of the way, cvs rm, then re-add it. |
| 18:36:48 | mallum | thats what I just did :( |
| 18:37:06 | pb_ | no difference? |
| 18:37:47 | pb_ | BBrox: oh right, cool, I'll have to try it out. Have you looked at it at all yet? |
| 18:38:45 | mallum | nope its completely fuxored :(( |
| 18:38:51 | mallum | Im gonna have to reimport it |
| 18:39:05 | BBrox | pb_: nope... Will try it tomorrow I think (working on DWARF reading right now :-) ) |
| 18:39:19 | pb_ | um? surely you just need to copy those missing files into a fresh checkout and cvs add them there. |
| 18:39:24 | pb_ | no need to re-import. |
| 18:39:49 | pb_ | BBrox: okay, cool. I might try it tomorrow too. Be interesting to see how it compares to the Pitre implementation. |
| 18:40:22 | BBrox | Yup... If it works nicely, I may add support to ScummVM (if nobody beats me to it) |
| 18:40:53 | mallum | pb_: ah yes of course |
| 18:40:58 | mallum | pb_: all is not lost :) |
| 18:41:54 | pb_ | back later, dinner time. |
| 18:48:22 | mallum | realises he's deleted a ton of source files :((((((( |
| 18:54:50 | prpplague | argh |
| 18:55:37 | prpplague | mallum: i hate it when that happens |
| 18:56:03 | prpplague | mallum: thats why i usually run a cron job that backs up my dev files about every 5 minutes |
| 18:57:51 | mallum | prpplague: yeah fortunatly I backup to another machine every evening |
| 19:02:39 | mallum | arg this is gonna take all night .... |
| 19:11:25 | prpplague | mallum: i feel for ya man |
| 19:11:40 | mallum | prpplague: Im getting there now ... |
| 19:28:21 | dc_ | no fear! |
| 19:29:11 | dc_ | I live. |
| 19:30:41 | dc_ | mallum: ! |
| 19:30:47 | dc_ | pb_: ! |
| 19:30:50 | dc_ | wake up ;p |
| 19:33:21 | mallum | dc_: hey !!! |
| 19:33:30 | dc_ | mallum: hey! |
| 19:33:40 | dc_ | mallum: I just got back frot jersey |
| 19:33:49 | mallum | dc_: jersey with cows ? |
| 19:34:00 | dc_ | and managed to spend the whole of today trying to find a pair of new glasses :/ |
| 19:34:02 | dc_ | mallum: yeah. |
| 19:34:11 | dc_ | mallum: kind of boring |
| 19:34:14 | mallum | dc_: did you get some ? |
| 19:34:19 | dc_ | mallum: no, no, ;p |
| 19:34:24 | mallum | dc_: I need to get some new glasses soon |
| 19:34:49 | dc_ | mallum: authough getting a bit drunk on the beach was fun ;] |
| 19:34:53 | dc_ | hehe. |
| 19:34:56 | mallum | dc_: tut tut |
| 19:34:57 | dc_ | anyway. |
| 19:35:16 | dc_ | but I'm back! |
| 19:35:21 | mallum | woohoo ! |
| 19:35:34 | dc_ | I've been working on gpe-filemanager quite a bit. |
| 19:35:40 | mallum | so did you go oz -> jersey -> surrey ? |
| 19:35:46 | mallum | cool |
| 19:35:58 | dc_ | yep |
| 19:36:06 | dc_ | and moved into our new house |
| 19:36:09 | mallum | how come jersey ? |
| 19:36:15 | mallum | ooh is it nice ? |
| 19:36:21 | mallum | broadband ? |
| 19:36:32 | dc_ | a friend payed for the trip |
| 19:37:06 | dc_ | it's fun hacking on the beach though! |
| 19:37:09 | dc_ | mallum: oh and!! |
| 19:37:25 | dc_ | mallum: I'm getting the new 17" iMac |
| 19:37:28 | dc_ | I've been converted. |
| 19:37:33 | mallum | dc_: nice :) |
| 19:37:41 | dc_ | linux deserves only the sexiest hardware |
| 19:37:41 | mallum | dc_: oh yeah theres modem drivers now |
| 19:37:47 | dc_ | mallum: yeap |
| 19:37:53 | dc_ | mallum: thanks very much for those |
| 19:37:54 | dc_ | :D |
| 19:37:56 | mallum | dc_: did you get my botmail ? |
| 19:38:01 | dc_ | yep |
| 19:38:04 | mallum | cool |
| 19:38:31 | dc_ | I have to show you gpe-filemanager, just added a list view, and an open with dialog |
| 19:38:40 | mallum | nice |
| 19:38:57 | dc_ | so.. |
| 19:39:07 | dc_ | oh and my new room is soundproof ;) |
| 19:39:13 | dc_ | hehe, lots of fun |
| 19:39:29 | mallum | was it a recording studio or summin ? |
| 19:39:34 | dc_ | yep |
| 19:39:40 | dc_ | used to be |
| 19:40:25 | dc_ | hrm, and now I have to find a job to afford my new iMac |
| 19:40:55 | dc_ | since my once 1500 pounds box is now worth about 300 :{ |
| 19:41:07 | dc_ | including the 1Gb of DRR ram :/ |
| 19:42:07 | mallum | 300 surely more ? |
| 19:42:17 | dc_ | mallum: it seems not |
| 19:42:46 | mallum | what cpu is it ? |
| 19:42:54 | dc_ | mallum: memory used to be worth 1000 alone |
| 19:43:02 | dc_ | mallum: 800 t.bird |
| 19:43:17 | dc_ | 16x cd-rw, dvd, sb live plat |
| 19:43:36 | mallum | gforce ? |
| 19:44:06 | dc_ | matrox G450, and 2 flatron screens |
| 19:44:16 | mallum | 17" ? |
| 19:44:16 | dc_ | but it doesn't include them |
| 19:44:27 | BBrox | Hmmmm, I like when my program start to output something :-) |
| 19:44:48 | dc_ | mallum: yep |
| 19:44:48 | mallum | BBrox: yeah like program recieved segfualt ;) |
| 19:44:48 | dc_ | mallum: I'm gonna sell those alone |
| 19:44:56 | dc_ | mallum: so if you need any monitors ;D |
| 19:45:23 | mallum | dc_: Id be up for some of the ram and sb card ;) |
| 19:45:30 | dc_ | mallum: oh cool |
| 19:45:56 | dc_ | mallum: well, ram's supposed to be worth about 40 each |
| 19:46:03 | dc_ | mallum: that's 512 |
| 19:46:11 | dc_ | mallum: it's about 60 retail |
| 19:46:51 | dc_ | mallum: I think, and the sb is worth about 20 (even though I bought it for 120!) |
| 19:47:05 | dc_ | mallum: would you want the live drive to..? |
| 19:47:12 | BBrox | mallum: well, in my case, I see the first parsed debug info :-) |
| 19:48:04 | dc_ | I do wonder if I could find a 2nd had cube thing, it'd be alot cheaper |
| 19:49:29 | mallum | dc_: I only need 256Mb of the ram , or are they 512 dimms ? |
| 19:50:04 | dc_ | 512 dimms |
| 19:50:25 | mallum | dc_: ok thats cool, is is pc2100 or whatever ? |
| 19:50:54 | mallum | dc_: what is the live drive ? the thing that goes in the drive bay ? |
| 19:51:05 | dc_ | I'm honestly not sure, I'm pretty sure it's the first lowest rate thought, I have to check |
| 19:51:24 | dc_ | mallum: yeah, it has midi, optical etc.. |
| 19:51:35 | mallum | dc_: yeah cool, midi good, me make music again |
| 19:51:45 | dc_ | mallum: great :) |
| 19:52:18 | mallum | dc_: I can give you a normal sb card too, so you could still sell the box as a whole |
| 19:53:13 | dc_ | mallum: oh I'm gonna sell the stripped one to my friend |
| 19:53:18 | dc_ | mallum: thanks anyway :) |
| 19:55:39 | dc_ | kicks scrollkeeper |
| 19:57:26 | mallum | dc_: ok well hold on to them bits for me |
| 19:58:49 | dc_ | mallum: no problem |
| 20:01:01 | dc_ | steals his friends adsl bandwidth |
| 20:03:15 | dc_ | now plays for a 1200 to just appear in front of him |
| 20:03:20 | dc_ | s/plays/prays! |
| 20:03:31 | dc_ | I need to work.. |
| 20:04:20 | prpplague | dc_: time to infect a local biz with the klez |
| 20:04:48 | mallum | dc_: you back at school now ? |
| 20:05:23 | dc_ | mallum: thursday |
| 20:05:39 | dc_ | I can get a loan for 11 pounds per week |
| 20:05:52 | dc_ | so I'll only have to work for a few hours on sunday |
| 20:05:53 | mallum | dc_: dont get a loan |
| 20:05:58 | dc_ | :[ |
| 20:06:04 | dc_ | problem is getting a job |
| 20:06:07 | prpplague | dc_: don't borrow! |
| 20:06:14 | dc_ | mallum: well I can get one from my parents ;] |
| 20:06:21 | mallum | dc_: thats ok then |
| 20:06:41 | dc_ | yeah |
| 20:06:50 | mallum | dc_: is that the plan - get load from parents to buy mac and pay back with saturday job ? |
| 20:06:57 | dc_ | yeah |
| 20:07:17 | dc_ | I do wonder if they still sell the cubes |
| 20:07:36 | dc_ | I like the look of them, maby I can find a 2nd hand one... |
| 20:07:43 | mallum | dc_: my friend keeps telling me about this thing on the apple site, where once a week they sell refurbed stuff |
| 20:07:51 | dc_ | ooh |
| 20:07:57 | dc_ | mallum: any ideas where? |
| 20:08:09 | mallum | dc_: its on the apple store somewhere |
| 20:08:14 | dc_ | I can probly get it sent to a friend in the us if that's needed. |
| 20:08:18 | mallum | dc_: I will mail him |
| 20:08:24 | mallum | dc_: no its uk |
| 20:08:27 | dc_ | mallum: thanks :} |
| 20:08:29 | dc_ | great |
| 20:08:52 | dc_ | ah |
| 20:08:56 | dc_ | think I found it |
| 20:08:57 | pb_ | dc_: hey! |
| 20:09:09 | dc_ | pb_: hey man! |
| 20:09:42 | dc_ | mallum: 45% off! that's where I am :) |
| 20:09:47 | dc_ | http://registration.euro.apple.com/promo/refurb/uk/ |
| 20:09:55 | dc_ | pb_: hew you been? |
| 20:09:57 | pb_ | dc_: good to have you back with us :-) |
| 20:10:10 | dc_ | pb_: ah god defently! |
| 20:10:16 | pb_ | dc_: kind of busy the last few weeks, which makes a change. |
| 20:10:33 | dc_ | pb_: cool, think you can fill me in |
| 20:10:44 | dc_ | dreads to idea of reading his email |
| 20:11:32 | pb_ | dc_: I'll have to rack my brains to figure out what's new. |
| 20:11:34 | mallum | dc_: I got win98 to run under macos under Linux |
| 20:12:02 | dc_ | mallum: haha |
| 20:12:03 | mallum | dc_: I dont quite know why |
| 20:12:04 | dc_ | mallum: cool :D |
| 20:12:13 | dc_ | mallum: because you could! |
| 20:12:16 | mallum | dc_: win98 was actually usabale |
| 20:12:33 | mallum | dc_: but I couldn't get networking to work and the constant rebooting pissed me off |
| 20:12:45 | dc_ | pb_: take your time, I need to head home soon and setup my box (currently at a friends in london) |
| 20:12:55 | dc_ | mallum: what emu were you using? |
| 20:12:56 | pb_ | dc_: righto, cool. |
| 20:13:03 | mallum | dc_: 'realPC' |
| 20:13:07 | dc_ | pb_: I've done quite a bit of work on gpe-filemanager |
| 20:13:10 | dc_ | mallum: cool |
| 20:13:22 | dc_ | pb_: I just hope no one else has done tooo much :] |
| 20:13:26 | mallum | dc_: virtualPC dont work ( > v3 ) |
| 20:13:27 | pb_ | dc_: I've been sans ipaq for most of the last couple of weeks because of ongoing problems with the LCD. Seems to be fixed now though. |
| 20:13:39 | dc_ | mallum: suck, I liked the look of that |
| 20:13:42 | pb_ | dc_: excellent, I look forward to trying out the filemanager. |
| 20:13:50 | dc_ | pb_: what was up with it? |
| 20:14:17 | pb_ | dc_: turned out to be a bad solder joint between the LCD connector and the main PCB. |
| 20:14:21 | dc_ | oh, oh I got one of those neato flip cases that the 38xx's come with in jersey :] |
| 20:14:28 | dc_ | pb_: eek |
| 20:14:41 | pb_ | dc_: meant the screen was just blank all the time, with occasionally a few vertical lines. |
| 20:14:46 | dc_ | pb_: just hope my screen fliker doesn't turn for the worst |
| 20:14:58 | pb_ | dc_: still, I'm now an expert in dismantling ipaqs and putting them back together :-} |
| 20:15:16 | dc_ | pb_: so it's fixed now :D |
| 20:15:24 | pb_ | dc_: so far so good, fingers crossed. |
| 20:15:48 | pb_ | dc_: I need to get back to working on gpe-nmf, especially since this new ogg codec is out. |
| 20:15:59 | mallum | we all gonna meet up still at the Linux expo thing ? |
| 20:16:09 | pb_ | dc_: and making packages from the gtk mainline, now that jg is back from vacation. |
| 20:16:12 | dc_ | pb_: great, well it came it great use on the plane! |
| 20:16:15 | pb_ | mallum: definitely, remind me when it is again? |
| 20:16:34 | pb_ | dc_: cool :-) |
| 20:16:45 | dc_ | oh yeah |
| 20:16:53 | dc_ | mallum: your place still on? |
| 20:16:59 | mallum | http://www.linuxexpo.co.uk/Information/ |
| 20:17:23 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 20:17:30 | dc_ | you guys'll have to help me sneek in |
| 20:17:35 | pb_ | has no bandwidth to check the web page |
| 20:17:44 | dc_ | pb_: : |
| 20:17:46 | dc_ | :/ |
| 20:17:50 | pb_ | ah, got it, October 9. |
| 20:17:55 | pb_ | Or october 10. |
| 20:18:02 | mallum | pb_: 9th-10th of october |
| 20:18:09 | dc_ | coo |
| 20:18:11 | dc_ | l |
| 20:18:14 | pb_ | dc_: you will have to get time off school. |
| 20:18:33 | dc_ | pb_: that's really not a problem, my parents are pretty flexible |
| 20:18:52 | pb_ | dc_: cool :-) |
| 20:18:55 | dc_ | and so is the school :) |
| 20:19:09 | mallum | yeah my place is still on |
| 20:19:18 | mallum | but noone with bowl cuts is allowed ;) |
| 20:19:36 | dc_ | mallum: so are we gonna come on the 9th, and crash at your place? |
| 20:19:39 | dc_ | mallum: hah! |
| 20:20:04 | mallum | dc_: yeah people can crash if they want |
| 20:20:19 | mallum | dc_: I think ... better check with SId , should be fine |
| 20:20:23 | dc_ | do we know if it's worth going on both days...or I guess we'll have to see |
| 20:20:26 | pb_ | dc_: did you see the plethora of colins on scap? |
| 20:20:38 | pb_ | dc_: no, probably not, the expo itself is not usually all that exciting to be honest. |
| 20:20:44 | dc_ | mallum: sure thing, only if it's fine, it can be a bit hard for me to get back at that time... |
| 20:20:53 | dc_ | pb_: :] |
| 20:21:31 | dc_ | pb_: ooh, I fear him |
| 20:21:46 | pb_ | dc_: everyone does |
| 20:21:47 | dc_ | has a better hair cut now. |
| 20:21:54 | pb_ | heh. |
| 20:21:56 | dc_ | and some new glasses... |
| 20:22:07 | pb_ | wow, sounds like you're a new man all round. |
| 20:22:09 | dc_ | damn they wern't cheap! |
| 20:22:14 | dc_ | 200 |
| 20:22:30 | mallum | dc_: yeah sure. If you wanna crash though Id better speak to your parents first or summin |
| 20:22:32 | pb_ | crumbs |
| 20:22:37 | dc_ | for some metal, with about the mass of a 2p coin! |
| 20:22:44 | pb_ | glad I don't wear glasses :-} |
| 20:22:46 | mallum | dc_: my lenses alone cost double that ! |
| 20:22:46 | dc_ | mallum: sure, no problem |
| 20:22:53 | mallum | pb_: you wanna crash too ? |
| 20:22:53 | dc_ | pb_: lucky man |
| 20:23:09 | dc_ | mallum: you must have odd eyesight ;] |
| 20:23:19 | mallum | dc_: yeah -8 in both eyes |
| 20:23:20 | pb_ | mallum: dunno, but it would be nice to have the option |
| 20:23:28 | dc_ | mallum: oww :/ |
| 20:23:29 | mallum | dc_: I have to get the high index lenses |
| 20:24:01 | dc_ | is very happys he's only -1.70 / -1.50 (for now...) |
| 20:24:03 | mallum | pb_: well its cool if you do, |
| 20:24:13 | mallum | dc_: you dont even need glasses |
| 20:24:20 | pb_ | mallum: excellent, thanks. |
| 20:24:25 | dc_ | mallum: ;p |
| 20:28:51 | dc_ | olirc?? |
| 20:29:01 | dc_ | bah |
| 20:29:05 | dc_ | need to reboot |
| 20:29:08 | mallum | dc_: yeah pb found that |
| 20:29:23 | moray | the last linux expo it was definitely more interesting to sit and be asked questions about stuff than to look at anything... |
| 20:29:49 | dc_ | brb, I may be back on if not, I'll hopefully have my box setup at home by tomorrow afternoon |
| 20:29:53 | dc_ | moray: :] |
| 20:30:02 | moray | I suppose we could set up a GPE encampment somewhere ;) |
| 20:30:03 | mallum | dc_: cool |
| 20:30:06 | dc_ | nice to talk to you guys again :D |
| 20:30:07 | mallum | moray: yeah |
| 20:30:16 | mallum | moray: your coming down too right ? |
| 20:30:53 | moray | mallum: presumably |
| 20:31:32 | pb_ | I guess there will be some kind of debian presence. |
| 20:32:13 | moray | yes. just as long as nelson doesn't turn up... |
| 20:32:13 | mallum | I think the gllug people will have a stand, Im sure we can hang out there |
| 20:33:16 | pb_ | cool. |
| 20:34:49 | pb_ | phew, gcc upload is complete, now maybe my lag will return to bearable levels |
| 20:35:03 | pb_ | curses NTL and their miserable upstream bandwidth |
| 20:37:05 | moray | there was some stuff on free fonts in Debian Weekly News, by the way |
| 20:38:22 | mallum | moray: I dont think theres gonna be a solution to that for quite a while |
| 20:38:47 | mallum | moray: maybe redhat will get some decent ttf fonts made |
| 20:39:00 | mallum | moray: there new beta is all gnome 2 |
| 20:39:40 | moray | the DWN entry had pointers to a few things (including http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/freefont which should produce something workable even if it doesn't end up being that nice) |
| 20:40:24 | moray | it'll be interesting to see what jg's new thing turns out to be - it wasn't clear if it'll have the same no-modification terms as the previous X font |
| 20:41:21 | mallum | moray: it wouldn't suprise me if what ever jg comes up with dont fit the DFSG |
| 20:42:53 | mallum | moray: but you never know ... |
| 20:43:16 | ade | we can always hope |
| 20:43:31 | ade | hi all btw |
| 20:44:48 | pb_ | hi ade :-) |
| 20:46:04 | ade | pb_ i promise to look at the irc client when i get back to uni, but first i have to do my sis's OU project |
| 20:46:21 | pb_ | ade: surely that's not the way it's supposed to work? |
| 20:46:23 | ade | so thats about 3 weeks away |
| 20:46:30 | ade | indeed |
| 20:46:42 | pb_ | heh |
| 20:46:43 | ade | its a family effort ;) |
| 20:48:10 | ade | she does the words, mum does the , make it into english, i do the maths/computer work. dad does the proof reading. bro builds the rest of his house. |
| 20:48:27 | ade | lucky git |
| 20:48:53 | pb_ | hmph |
| 20:50:48 | pb_ | hmm, I wonder how that calculator that PaxAnima was working on is progressing. |
| 20:50:55 | pb_ | should have asked him before he left I suppose. |
| 20:51:13 | ade | what calc was he doing? |
| 20:51:35 | pb_ | dunno exactly, but I gather some kind of good one. |
| 20:51:49 | pb_ | kind of middle ground between minicalc and xcas. |
| 20:52:49 | ade | oooh |
| 20:53:11 | ade | a Ti-92, ipaq style |
| 20:53:19 | pb_ | yeah :-) |
| 20:53:40 | ade | would be nice |
| 21:02:04 | moray | ah, I have a real TI-92 here, it's a nice calculator - though unfortunately not allowed in exams etc. :) |
| 21:02:48 | ade | shame |
| 21:04:13 | ade | i was really anoyed a few years ago in 2nd year maths degree, my crap casio calc was not on the list of approved one so i had to put it on the floor. |
| 21:04:39 | ade | their list was years out of date and no current crap calc were listed |
| 21:05:30 | ade | by crap i mean , +-*/ x^ ln e^x |
| 21:05:47 | ade | oh and sin tan cos |
| 21:06:52 | ade | in the end i had to derive tan 0.17 from a taylor's expansion centred around 0 |
| 21:06:58 | ade | most not fair |
| 21:07:07 | ade | ends rant |
| 21:07:14 | jsmanrique | hello |
| 21:07:22 | ade | hi |
| 21:15:41 | moray | ade: sounds annoying. all the maths-related stuff in my last exams was designed not to need a calculator, which was nice - I agree with that idea, but not with getting people to do sums manually, which is pointless IMHO |
| 21:16:51 | pb_ | night |
| 21:17:13 | ade | yup, theory good, but if you have numerical mechanics todo a calc is ussful |
| 21:18:11 | moray | indeed. - at my previous university I think there was only one kind of university-approved calculator... |
| 21:18:25 | ade | where was that ? |
| 21:18:32 | moray | Cambridge |
| 21:18:46 | ade | which coll? |
| 21:18:50 | moray | and they had little stickers too, so if you didn't buy one from them you had to have it checked |
| 21:18:53 | moray | Jesus College |
| 21:19:38 | ade | same here, after I complained to the exam officer |
| 21:20:22 | cmarqu | re |
| 21:20:29 | cmarqu | Argh. I missed dc |
| 21:20:55 | moray | ade: what was(/is) your university? |
| 21:20:59 | ade | exeter |
| 21:21:02 | moray | ok |
| 21:21:03 | ade | is |
| 21:21:23 | ade | just about to start my 5th year |
| 21:21:31 | ade | slow learner ;) |
| 21:21:39 | moray | 'enthusiastic |
| 21:21:44 | moray | ', I was going to say ;) |
| 21:22:03 | ade | you ? |
| 21:23:12 | moray | I'm just finishing off a 1-year MSc at Edinburgh - time to write up my dissertation, which means I need to sort out some results etc. |
| 21:24:11 | moray | (should be about 2/3 written at present maybe) |
| 21:24:42 | ade | Msc in ? |
| 21:24:48 | moray | 'Informatics' |
| 21:25:01 | jsmanrique | hello again |
| 21:25:16 | ade | guess you must be in the same starting year as me then |
| 21:25:31 | jsmanrique | sorry I was answering some emails, and these days have been very busy for me |
| 21:25:34 | moray | ade: I only had 3 years at Cambridge before |
| 21:25:51 | ade | started 98 |
| 21:26:02 | moray | ok, same |
| 21:26:04 | jsmanrique | I have been working in Scientific Digital Assistant Project infrastructure... |
| 21:26:22 | moray | ade: [ah, 'about to start' 5th year] |
| 21:26:25 | jsmanrique | web, svannah,gnu.org site,... |
| 21:26:40 | ade | jsmanrique: hows it going, the SDA? |
| 21:27:10 | jsmanrique | ade: fine, savannah site is already done |
| 21:27:24 | jsmanrique | ade: https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/sda/ |
| 21:27:43 | jsmanrique | ade: and Spanish part for the web is already done |
| 21:28:02 | moray | jsmanrique: looks good |
| 21:28:02 | jsmanrique | ade: http://www.asturlinux.org/~jsmanrique/sda |
| 21:28:23 | jsmanrique | but there is already a lot of work to be done.. |
| 21:29:14 | jsmanrique | docs, english and spanish translations for some docs, final SDA software structure,.. |
| 21:29:44 | ade | looking good |
| 21:29:45 | jsmanrique | but at least, some basic things have been created (thanks to savannah site) |
| 21:30:23 | ade | look forward to seeing the fianl result and what HP have to say |
| 21:30:44 | ade | s/fianl/final |
| 21:30:44 | jsmanrique | we will see.. |
| 21:30:57 | jsmanrique | ade: what? |
| 21:31:44 | ade | i should have typed final not fianl |
| 21:32:02 | jsmanrique | I am not very enthousiast about what HP would think about this project.. |
| 21:32:12 | ade | why ? |
| 21:32:21 | jsmanrique | I think they have other plans for handhelds and calculators future.. |
| 21:32:44 | jsmanrique | handhelds-> High priced wince machines |
| 21:32:56 | jsmanrique | calculators-> Low priced rebranded models |
| 21:33:09 | ade | screw both pda market and the kids/students for the calc market |
| 21:33:30 | jsmanrique | but I would like to show the posibility of a gnu/linux handheld as a misc |
| 21:34:02 | jsmanrique | low cost, just like nowadays hp49 calc, and getting much more power that hp49 unit |
| 21:34:34 | ade | low cost to them but high cost to buyer i think |
| 21:34:57 | jsmanrique | perhaps you haven't understand me |
| 21:35:07 | jsmanrique | hp49 is high cost for a calc |
| 21:35:16 | jsmanrique | but it would be low cost for a handheld |
| 21:35:55 | jsmanrique | hp49 calculator uses a 4MHz CPU, 131x64 screen, 1'5MB user RAM and 1MB for O.S. |
| 21:36:16 | jsmanrique | and it costs 240 Euros |
| 21:36:24 | jsmanrique | more or less $240 |
| 21:36:47 | ade | they will like that it costs them little, but they will charge people a lot to buy it, bigger profit margins |
| 21:36:53 | jsmanrique | HP Jornada X25 was going to be sold for $200 |
| 21:37:06 | jsmanrique | and offered StrongARM 206MHz CPU |
| 21:37:12 | jsmanrique | 240x320 scren |
| 21:37:26 | jsmanrique | 16MB for O.S. and 32MB for RAM |
| 21:37:46 | jsmanrique | and it was going to use linux as O.S. |
| 21:37:53 | ade | really? |
| 21:37:55 | jsmanrique | hp49=$240 |
| 21:38:03 | jsmanrique | hp jx25=$200 |
| 21:38:30 | jsmanrique | yes, really |
| 21:38:31 | ade | hmmmm i want an hp jx25 then :) |
| 21:39:21 | jsmanrique | it is a cancelled project.. |
| 21:39:35 | jsmanrique | http://www.pdawear.com/news/article_x25_innocently_killed.htm |
| 21:39:44 | jsmanrique | there it talks about $150 |
| 21:40:40 | jsmanrique | in my university 200 people/year buy a hp49 that can be beat by my ipaq3100 running xcas.. |
| 21:41:37 | ade | hope the project works out then |
| 21:41:38 | jsmanrique | and many people say: "but calculators can be used in exams and handhelds can't" |
| 21:42:14 | jsmanrique | I don't understand why a calc like handheld couldn't be allowed (like HP Xpander machine) |
| 21:43:37 | jsmanrique | my hp49 can (also my hp48 can) be used to edit/view texts, html,.. so it can be used for cheating the same way that a handheld or calc-like handheld could be used |
| 21:43:39 | ade | i guess because it can be programmed to store examples that aren't allowed in the exams |
| 21:43:56 | jsmanrique | well, hp49, hp48.. most of calcs are progammable |
| 21:44:16 | jsmanrique | and they use a powerful language |
| 21:44:28 | ade | can they be reset to ROM only by a button ? |
| 21:44:43 | jsmanrique | yes, like any handheld |
| 21:45:21 | moray | ade: though with e.g. an ipaq you can change the 'ROM' under Linux, so resetting doesn't actually guarantee much... |
| 21:45:26 | ade | but an ipaq can have the flash changed so a reset doesn't effect the FLASH rom |
| 21:45:38 | ade | lol |
| 21:45:41 | moray | I wonder if anyone's changed the ROM in their calculator to get round it? |
| 21:45:50 | moray | would actually be easy enough I'd have thought... |
| 21:45:53 | jsmanrique | what do you mean? |
| 21:45:53 | ade | but a HP49 has only read only flash |
| 21:45:57 | ade | but a HP49 has only read only rom |
| 21:46:04 | jsmanrique | not.. |
| 21:46:08 | ade | but a HP49 has only read only memory .. get there in the end :) |
| 21:46:27 | jsmanrique | hp49 flash rom can be updated |
| 21:46:40 | ade | oh ok doh . my mistake |
| 21:46:49 | jsmanrique | we are in 1.19-7 ROM version |
| 21:46:54 | ade | md5sum the rom on entry ? |
| 21:47:06 | jsmanrique | and ti89 flashrom can be updated too |
| 21:47:44 | jsmanrique | nowadays hp or ti calculators aren't more than a handheld with integrated keyboard and math software in |
| 21:48:01 | ade | i guess so |
| 21:48:16 | ade | oh talk to your uni about it then |
| 21:48:45 | jsmanrique | yes I do, every year.. I give hp calculators usage courses every year :) |
| 21:49:15 | jsmanrique | it is a matter of teachers interest |
| 21:49:31 | ade | poke them a hit harder |
| 21:49:37 | jsmanrique | some doesn't mind what we use in our exams |
| 21:49:58 | jsmanrique | others really try to understand what a calc can do |
| 21:50:27 | jsmanrique | and when I talk about what "a calc can do", I don't talk about cheating |
| 21:50:42 | ade | well nowaday your entire exam may be done by the calc and not you |
| 21:50:50 | jsmanrique | I talk about the advanced math software available in a calc |
| 21:51:10 | ade | 'maple in your pocket' :) |
| 21:51:11 | jsmanrique | no, my exams are done by me.. I promise.. |
| 21:51:24 | jsmanrique | yes, something like |
| 21:51:59 | jsmanrique | but a calc won't tell you how to understand a result or how to begin the problem solution |
| 21:52:15 | ade | true |
| 21:52:57 | jsmanrique | that's the idea.. calc or handheld as a tool, not a blackbox to get a solution |
| 21:54:16 | jsmanrique | yes, we have teachers that make you work with 10x10 matrix in some algebra problems, matrix with elements like 1/12 or similiar numbers.. and they think that the dificultness of algebra is that, working with that kind of matrix |
| 21:54:35 | jsmanrique | well, perhaps 10 years ago.. |
| 21:55:16 | ade | ah LU decomp , quite useful |
| 21:55:41 | jsmanrique | nowadays in your professional like you will have to work with meshing and flow simulation problems, that work with bigger matrix.. and I don't expect to get a manual solution for that kind of problems |
| 21:56:13 | jsmanrique | I expect to get a machine to solve it, and me to understand the proble, |
| 21:57:10 | jsmanrique | sorry.. but wasn't this gpe irc site? |
| 21:57:30 | jsmanrique | sorry.. when I begin talking about my calculator passion I can't stop |
| 21:57:31 | jsmanrique | sorry |
| 21:57:54 | ade_ | i expect the machine to get it correct too. few get 1000,1000 matrix correct. i'll fish out one to show you one day |
| 21:59:22 | jsmanrique | sorry.. but wasn't this gpe irc site? |
| 21:59:25 | jsmanrique | sorry.. when I begin talking about my calculator passion I can't stop |
| 21:59:28 | jsmanrique | sorry |
| 21:59:40 | jsmanrique | any of you have a hp calc? ;) |
