| 00:21:05 | flypiper_ | anyone know how I can get past the login screen.... I don't have a keyboard to enter password ?? |
| 00:36:01 | flypiper_ | nm.. needed xfonts-base or ttf |
| 03:05:32 | dc_ | afternoon guys. |
| 03:06:58 | flypiper_ | dc_: morning |
| 03:09:26 | dc_ | flypiper_: :) |
| 03:13:34 | flypiper_ | dc_: is that your spacezoro.com pic in scap? |
| 03:15:49 | dc_ | flypiper_: no... |
| 03:16:05 | dc_ | flypiper_: though the icons are cool, gnome2 dillo theme it seems. |
| 03:16:06 | flypiper_ | dc_: K...just love the theme |
| 03:16:25 | dc_ | ooh. |
| 03:16:29 | dc_ | flypiper_: the matchbox one? |
| 03:16:34 | flypiper_ | yep |
| 03:16:36 | dc_ | flypiper_: ask mallum, he'll have it. |
| 03:16:46 | dc_ | flypiper_: I'm very sure he made it :) |
| 03:16:47 | flypiper_ | K...thanks |
| 03:16:59 | dc_ | flypiper_: or try out the latest mbthemes on his side... |
| 03:17:00 | dc_ | site. |
| 03:17:03 | dc_ | err |
| 03:17:05 | | mallum is author of matchbox and xkbd and stuff |
| 03:17:05 | dc_ | ibot mallum? |
| 03:17:18 | | dc_: i'm not following you... |
| 03:17:18 | dc_ | ibot mallums feed |
| 03:17:21 | flypiper_ | Ill find it...thanks |
| 03:17:22 | | dc_: i'm not following you... |
| 03:17:22 | dc_ | ibot mallums' feed |
| 03:17:24 | dc_ | :) |
| 03:17:28 | dc_ | later |
| 03:17:31 | flypiper_ | cya |
| 08:50:49 | cmarqu | Hi. |
| 08:51:04 | cmarqu | The garilla theme is indeed nice. http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ipaq.html |
| 08:51:11 | pb_ | Sure is, I was just looking at it. |
| 08:51:26 | cmarqu | Coffee, BBIAB |
| 08:51:28 | pb_ | I dunno how well dark themes work on the iPAQ LCD though. |
| 08:51:56 | cmarqu | He might want to make a light version too |
| 09:00:48 | pb_ | hmm, both the screenshots on Reedstrom's dillo page are broken. :-/ |
| 09:15:43 | cmarqu | Didn't work for me at all yesterday... What page are you looking at?> |
| 09:18:17 | cmarqu | pb_: BTW, I have this in my logs (from here): |
| 09:18:25 | cmarqu | 03:26 < flypiper_> anyone know how I can get past the login screen.... I don't have a keyboard to enter password ?? |
| 09:18:28 | cmarqu | 03:41 < flypiper_> nm.. needed xfonts-base or ttf |
| 09:18:46 | cmarqu | This shouldn't really happen... |
| 09:23:50 | pb_ | I think that happens if you don't run the Familiar postinst. Not much we can do about that. |
| 09:24:37 | cmarqu | Hmm. |
| 09:25:38 | pb_ | Moray did add a dependency on xfonts-75dpi to gpe-apps, I think, that might help a bit. |
| 09:26:14 | pb_ | Right now it's pretty much obligatory to have the bitmap fonts installed, since GDK doesn't do truetype. :-| |
| 09:26:21 | cmarqu | Good. |
| 09:26:45 | cmarqu | Does my gpe-login/xcalibrate thing look okay? |
| 09:27:53 | pb_ | I think you only want to do the xcalibrate -view if the initial xcalibrate returned success. Other than that, looks fine. |
| 09:28:22 | pb_ | Just changing the ";" to "&&" should do the trick. |
| 09:28:48 | cmarqu | Well... hmm. |
| 09:29:38 | cmarqu | It would be nice if the iPAQ light sensor worked under Linux. Since I have dual-boot now, I find that I use it in wince. |
| 09:29:49 | cmarqu | Okay, I'll change that. |
| 09:30:08 | pb_ | What does the light sensor do for you? Change the backlight intensity or something? |
| 09:30:19 | cmarqu | Yeah, and even off. |
| 09:30:52 | cmarqu | mccarthy says that it could be in ipaq-sleep, but as soon as you start X, it stops working. |
| 09:31:09 | cmarqu | A kernel thing, Andy knows about it. |
| 09:31:18 | pb_ | Ah, OK. |
| 09:32:28 | cmarqu | Well, I mean, the intensity change could be in ipaq-sleep of course, but it needs the proper ambient light values |
| 09:33:02 | pb_ | Sure. Did Andy say what the problem was? |
| 09:33:16 | cmarqu | Should gpe-xcalibrate.sh return a special value? |
| 09:33:29 | pb_ | Don't think so. Keylaunch doesn't care about return codes as far as I know. |
| 09:33:41 | cmarqu | Don't know. I just know it was not at the top of his TODO list some months ago. |
| 09:33:52 | cmarqu | Maybe it's even fixed by now... |
| 09:35:15 | pb_ | Mine always seems to return "0x23" :-| |
| 09:37:04 | cmarqu | Yeah. Apparently it works immediately after startup. |
| 09:38:48 | pb_ | Weird. |
| 09:39:32 | cmarqu | I remember one TODO thing (wishlist): * Make gpe-login password entry field have the input focus all the time. |
| 09:40:01 | pb_ | Oh yeah. |
| 09:40:07 | pb_ | Stick it in bugzilla or something. |
| 09:40:19 | cmarqu | Okay. |
| 09:49:33 | pb_ | hmm, yeah, I found a mail from Andy about the light sensor, http://www.handhelds.org/pipermail/familiar/2002-March/006992.html |
| 09:50:06 | pb_ | Going to buy some more RAM, back in half an hour or so. |
| 09:50:22 | cmarqu | I'll be on later at night. |
| 13:38:11 | flypiper | shew...finally got MS$ fonts installed on 3800....big improvement! |
| 13:43:26 | dc_ | morning ;] |
| 13:45:54 | flypiper | dc_: morning |
| 13:46:09 | pb_ | hey dc_ |
| 13:46:19 | dc_ | :) |
| 13:46:29 | dc_ | I like erezs' mb theme. |
| 13:46:56 | pb_ | Which one's that? |
| 13:47:24 | dc_ | http://www.dasbistro.com/~erik/ipaq.html |
| 13:47:35 | dc_ | it's that cool purple one on scap |
| 13:47:46 | dc_ | flypiper: have you tried it out yet? |
| 13:47:51 | pb_ | oh right, I didn't think that was erez's. |
| 13:48:15 | pb_ | isn't that Erik Stambaugh's one? |
| 13:48:22 | flypiper | dc_: haven't tried it yet.. been fooling with v6pre1 and fresh install on 3800 |
| 13:49:21 | dc_ | oooooh |
| 13:49:24 | dc_ | flypiper: cool :) |
| 13:49:47 | pb_ | dc_: finally got my new computer working :-) |
| 13:51:15 | dc_ | pb_: wow, so does it double up as a feet warmer also? |
| 13:51:33 | pb_ | dc_: let's hope not, it feels like it's 40 degrees in here already. |
| 13:52:20 | pb_ | need to get air conditioning in my study :-| |
| 13:52:20 | dc_ | ;] |
| 13:52:59 | dc_ | wish it was that hot here... |
| 13:53:18 | pb_ | dc_, we started a list of stuff that wants fixing in GPE before familiar 0.6, you might like to add anything else you can think of. |
| 13:53:24 | pb_ | see http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/ImminentZeroPointSixRelease |
| 13:54:33 | dc_ | pb_: ah cool. |
| 13:54:45 | dc_ | pb_: well I started a list of gpe-config-* stuff yesterday. |
| 13:54:50 | pb_ | yay! |
| 13:55:03 | dc_ | :} |
| 13:55:12 | dc_ | pb_: it's gonna be good I hope. |
| 13:55:13 | pb_ | I was gonna start working on gpe-contacts and gpe-famplayer yesterday, but was foiled because all my computers were broken. |
| 13:55:15 | dc_ | pb_: but. |
| 13:55:22 | dc_ | pb_: heh. |
| 13:56:11 | dc_ | pb_: it'd be nice to have some sort of standard config system |
| 13:56:11 | pb_ | but? |
| 13:56:15 | pb_ | GConf |
| 13:56:17 | dc_ | pb_: or actualy. |
| 13:56:46 | dc_ | pb_: that's not really needed for gpe-config-* but rather for individual app config, right? |
| 13:56:59 | pb_ | yeah, probably. |
| 13:57:13 | pb_ | I lose track of all these different things. What does gpe-config-* do, exactly? |
| 13:57:18 | dc_ | pb_: where do you suggest I put template scripts? |
| 13:57:34 | pb_ | dunno, /usr/share/gpe somewhere? |
| 13:57:35 | dc_ | pb_: like ones that gpe-config-blah will copy to /etc/resume-scripts |
| 13:57:42 | dc_ | pb_: as I thought. |
| 13:57:44 | dc_ | maby |
| 13:57:56 | dc_ | err /usr/share/gpe/scripts |
| 13:58:03 | pb_ | fine. |
| 13:58:08 | dc_ | cool. |
| 13:58:26 | dc_ | oh. one thing also is a screen lock option. |
| 13:58:33 | pb_ | gpe-login does that, kind of. |
| 13:58:33 | dc_ | can we 'arrange' that ;) |
| 13:58:37 | dc_ | yeah |
| 13:58:48 | pb_ | you want something different? |
| 13:58:59 | dc_ | I spose we can use that for now, but I don't want to confuse people |
| 13:59:11 | pb_ | what do you mean? |
| 13:59:14 | dc_ | like say we add simple session management, so you can loggout etc... |
| 13:59:26 | pb_ | well, hmm, you can already log out :-) |
| 13:59:41 | dc_ | you'll want to be able to tell if you've logged out, or the screen is just locked. |
| 13:59:53 | pb_ | yeah, it says "Log in" if you need to log in, and "Screen locked" if the screen is locked. |
| 14:00:07 | dc_ | pb_: oh, 1337 :D |
| 14:00:11 | dc_ | problem solved. |
| 14:00:12 | dc_ | hehe |
| 14:00:37 | dc_ | pb_: so do you just add some switches to make it do that then? |
| 14:00:38 | pb_ | we could maybe make it more explicit, have a big picture of a monitor with bars over it on the "locked" screen, and... uh, something else on the login one. |
| 14:00:47 | dc_ | :) |
| 14:00:56 | pb_ | dc_: plug and play mate, it's all automatic. |
| 14:01:05 | dc_ | pb_: :) |
| 14:01:19 | pb_ | dc_: gpe-login hooks itself into the suspend scripts, so it will lock the screen whenever the unit goes to sleep. |
| 14:01:26 | dc_ | pb_: well, what I want is a 'Lock screen on resume' option in gpe-config-* |
| 14:01:49 | pb_ | ok. |
| 14:01:58 | dc_ | coooool |
| 14:01:59 | dc_ | :) |
| 14:02:18 | dc_ | oh...and we need to bug jamey about the light sensor. |
| 14:02:18 | flypiper | dc_: if you work on the install stuff....lemme know and i'll reflash my 3800 and check it:-) |
| 14:02:32 | dc_ | I really miss auto brightness |
| 14:02:37 | pb_ | dc_: yeah, Colin was talking about that earlier. |
| 14:02:46 | pb_ | dc_: I gather it's a kernel bug, we need to harrass Andy about it. |
| 14:02:53 | dc_ | pb_: yepo. |
| 14:03:01 | dc_ | flypiper: great, thanks. |
| 14:03:22 | pb_ | dc_: I'll have a think about the best way to implement the config option for screen locking. |
| 14:03:33 | dc_ | right. |
| 14:04:13 | dc_ | also. |
| 14:04:54 | dc_ | hmm. |
| 14:04:59 | dc_ | I have to have a look at ipaq-sleep |
| 14:05:35 | pb_ | dc_: I hacked ipaq-sleep around a bit last week. |
| 14:05:43 | dc_ | pb_: ooh and> |
| 14:06:31 | dc_ | pb_: can it suspend after a timeout? |
| 14:06:36 | pb_ | dc_: code is in cvs. I don't think I changed all that much, my main mission was to add a "low battery threshold" so it will automatically go to sleep before you run out of juice altogether. |
| 14:06:37 | dc_ | pb_: like the screensaver? |
| 14:06:43 | pb_ | dc_: yeah |
| 14:07:05 | dc_ | pb_: ah ha, the exact thing I was pondering over last night :D |
| 14:07:22 | pb_ | dc_: ipaq-sleep should be a complete replacement for ipaq-screensaver I think. |
| 14:07:36 | pb_ | dc_: and ipaq-screensaver has to be root, which is a bit of a drawback. |
| 14:07:37 | dc_ | pb_: yep, it'd be cool to have an option for that, and a user defineable threshold. |
| 14:07:43 | dc_ | pb_: yep. I agree. |
| 14:07:51 | pb_ | dc_: yup, it's the -b option, you can set it in /etc/ipaq-sleep.conf too. |
| 14:08:06 | pb_ | low_battery = 7 |
| 14:08:07 | pb_ | or whatever |
| 14:08:29 | dc_ | even cooler. |
| 14:08:55 | dc_ | anyway, it's 1 am... |
| 14:08:57 | dc_ | needs sleep. |
| 14:09:05 | pb_ | okay, g'night. |
| 14:09:07 | dc_ | pb_: have a nice day ;D |
| 14:09:15 | pb_ | :-) |
| 14:09:20 | dc_ | :-) |
| 18:09:07 | cmarqu | re |
| 18:14:08 | pb_ | hey |
| 18:16:34 | spung | cmarqu: about scummvm |
| 18:16:50 | spung | cmarqu: should I use handhelds.org's bugzilla? |
| 18:18:46 | cmarqu | spung: Yes, please. I tried with the new esddsp binray from unstable, but all soudn gets played at half speed |
| 18:24:04 | cmarqu | I guess I could use esdctl to switch esd off while scummvm is run |
| 18:25:25 | pb_ | I'd really need to see an strace of scummvm running to do anything with that. |
| 18:25:52 | cmarqu | pb_: Okay, I can get that. With esddsp running, right? |
| 18:26:02 | pb_ | No, scummvm running on its own. |
| 18:26:08 | cmarqu | Ah. Okay. |
| 18:26:16 | pb_ | I don't think there's any way to get useful trace information out of esddsp. |
| 18:27:23 | cmarqu | Backing up the wince RAM, will get it then. |
| 18:28:12 | cmarqu | pb_: Is that main.c:#include <gdk_imlib.h> |
| 18:28:20 | spung | pb_: why are we running esd? |
| 18:28:21 | cmarqu | from gpe-calendar correct? |
| 18:28:30 | pb_ | cmarqu: no, it's just a historical relic. |
| 18:28:37 | pb_ | cmarqu: it's harmless, but should be deleted. |
| 18:28:43 | spung | cmarqu: we use gdkpixbuf now |
| 18:28:50 | spung | ;) |
| 18:28:57 | cmarqu | I know, I was windering why that was there then. |
| 18:29:43 | cmarqu | We should maybe ask Nils if his gpe-alarm thing works? |
| 18:29:55 | pb_ | Good plan. |
| 18:30:24 | pb_ | cmarqu: ah, I thought of something else for the 0.6 list: it would be really good to get this GPE/GNU thing put to bed. Can you liaise with Nils and try to get a resolution? |
| 18:31:13 | cmarqu | Okay. |
| 18:31:25 | pb_ | Thanks. |
| 18:31:43 | cmarqu | Do we want to keep the name GPE? I guess so, right? |
| 18:31:53 | cmarqu | Ah, the OPIE guys are making a login screen. |
| 18:31:58 | pb_ | Yeah, I think so. Unless you have any other suggestions? |
| 18:32:26 | cmarqu | I guess it's very late for a change, people have gotten used to it. Let's just keep it. |
| 18:32:59 | pb_ | Agreed. |
| 18:33:38 | pb_ | did you see Harlekin talking about the database stuff on #hh.org? |
| 18:33:44 | pb_ | <Harlekin> id like to talk to daveh |
| 18:33:49 | pb_ | <Harlekin> otherwise we will start our own stuff on wednesday |
| 18:33:52 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 18:34:16 | cmarqu | No, I didn't. |
| 18:34:47 | cmarqu | Well, that's life. Didn't they have to make OPIE work with a DB at all first? I guess it's done then? |
| 18:35:07 | pb_ | Guess so. Or it might just be Max being... well, himself. |
| 18:35:18 | cmarqu | Yeah. |
| 18:35:53 | pb_ | I asked him to make a list of the things he didn't like about the existing spec, so we could discuss them. He didn't seem very keen on that for some reason. |
| 18:36:38 | pb_ | I've started implementing the "new" database in gpe-contacts now. |
| 18:36:43 | cmarqu | I added my todo items to the ImminentZeroPointSixRelease page and commented some existing points there |
| 18:36:47 | pb_ | Cool. |
| 18:36:53 | cmarqu | Good. |
| 18:37:24 | cmarqu | BTW, is gpe-todo supposed to do anything? |
| 18:38:02 | pb_ | Umm, yeah, it's supposed to be a to-do application. |
| 18:38:16 | cmarqu | :) |
| 18:38:20 | pb_ | It also needs converting to the new database but it does work at least a bit in its current form. |
| 18:38:39 | cmarqu | Hmm, I thought it didn't work at all for me... |
| 18:39:31 | pb_ | It's a little bit idiosyncratic though: it works with completely disjoint lists rather than the more ephemeral categories people tend to expect. The main thing that catches people out is that you have to create a list before you can make any items. |
| 18:40:12 | cmarqu | Let mne try again, although I thought I did that. |
| 18:40:42 | pb_ | OK. I'm planning to change that behaviour anyway when I do the new-db conversion, too many people have trouble with it. |
| 18:41:22 | pb_ | BTW, I just got mail from a Debian guy asking to have the rest of GPE packaged. |
| 18:41:44 | cmarqu | Nice. |
| 18:42:06 | pb_ | Yeah. He was specifically asking for gpe-todo, so I guess I ought to get on and do that. |
| 18:44:11 | cmarqu | Hmm, with the new gpe-appmgr, things look different. The three tabs with the question marks for instance: http://handhelds.org/scap/port.21270.png |
| 18:44:50 | pb_ | What are those tabs? |
| 18:44:52 | cmarqu | And what is that grey bar in the dock, before mmenu? |
| 18:44:56 | pb_ | Maybe it's just allowing tabs with no icons now. |
| 18:45:06 | pb_ | The grey bar is the "recent" list. Launch an application and watch what happens. |
| 18:45:16 | cmarqu | Audio, Configuration, Utilities. |
| 18:45:32 | cmarqu | Configuration should be in System I guess. |
| 18:45:35 | pb_ | Yeah. |
| 18:45:47 | cmarqu | Utilities too, isgui is in there. |
| 18:46:25 | pb_ | Hmm, the alpha blending isn't coming out too well either. GtkNotebook is a nightmare like that. |
| 18:46:40 | cmarqu | That recent list is not working for me. |
| 18:46:59 | pb_ | Hmm. It works for me (though I'm not running mibus's new binary at the moment) |
| 18:47:27 | cmarqu | Well, let me go and get that strace before I go to bed for like two hours. |
| 18:48:08 | cmarqu | Ah. Wasn't there a problem with gpe-soundserver not killing esd? |
| 18:48:36 | pb_ | cmarqu: Yeah. I think it's fixed in CVS. It's certainly fixed in my local tree, but I haven't built a new package yet. |
| 18:48:49 | cmarqu | Argh. I'm stupid. I'm running with the wrong flash card. |
| 18:48:56 | pb_ | ! |
| 18:49:14 | cmarqu | No scummvm on this one. |
| 18:49:18 | cmarqu | Rebooting. |
| 18:49:30 | pb_ | No rush. I'm about to down tools and go drink beer for a bit. |
| 18:55:01 | cmarqu | Ugh. gpe-appmgr scales icons *up* (pretty well, but still...). See http://handhelds.org/scap/port.18482.png |
| 18:55:17 | cmarqu | The D.o.t. Tentacle thing. |
| 19:03:17 | cmarqu | pb[away]: Mailed you the straces. strace with option -f seems to hang, and when I kill scummvm from the command line, I get a segfault. |
| 19:41:30 | pb[away] | Thanks. Sadly, no audio information in there. |
| 19:41:40 | pb[away] | I'll dig around in the source, see if I can turn anything up that way. |
| 19:51:46 | mallum | hey |
| 19:56:21 | pb[away] | yo mallum |
| 19:56:48 | pb[away] | got my athlon working, some slower memory did the trick :-) |
| 19:57:58 | mallum | pb[away]: woohoo :)) |
| 19:58:28 | mallum | pb[away]: is it fast ? |
| 19:58:34 | pb[away] | sure is :-) |
| 19:58:54 | pb[away] | fixed my CATS too, so I now have a full complement of computing resources again. |
| 19:59:02 | mallum | wehay |
| 19:59:10 | mallum | did you get X going ? |
| 19:59:20 | pb[away] | no, still no graphics card. |
| 19:59:20 | mallum | think Id better fix my cats tommorow morning ... |
| 19:59:32 | mallum | pb[away]: ah yes - you run it headless anyway - right ? |
| 19:59:38 | pb[away] | I lent my only spare PCI vga card to someone else, need to go and fetch it back. |
| 19:59:45 | pb[away] | yeah, it's normally headless. |
| 20:00:23 | pb[away] | I downloaded the GConf source this morning, seems it already includes a Berkeley db backend. |
| 20:01:13 | mallum | what rather than storing in xml ? |
| 20:24:12 | pb[away] | Right. XML is the default, but a backend module for DB exists too. |
| 20:36:44 | mallum | pb[away]: ahh, nice |
| 20:37:01 | mallum | pb[away]: and will it compile with no gnome libs ? |
| 20:51:38 | pb[away] | yep. |
| 20:53:20 | pb_ | the only major problem with it from our perspective is the fact that it uses CORBA for IPC. But I think we can replace that with something based on X selections. |
| 20:55:58 | pb__ | whoops, crashed my machine there. |
| 20:56:14 | pb__ | still need to replace this poxy nvidia card. :-| |
| 20:56:15 | mallum | pb__: hmm Xsettings on its own may be enough though ? |
| 20:56:28 | mallum | pb__: yeah I gotta order a radeon too :) |
| 20:56:34 | pb__ | mallum: use Xsettings in place of gconf you mean? |
| 20:57:07 | mallum | pb__: yeah |
| 20:58:04 | pb__ | mallum: yeah, that's a possibility too. |
| 20:58:23 | mallum | pb__: all we need to add really is a way it can serialise and un serialise to disk |
| 21:00:18 | pb__ | mmm. |
| 21:01:36 | pb__ | I guess the reasons I like gconf are: it already provides a shared library with a well defined API, and the gconf command line tool that manipulates the database; it abstracts away the transport and storage mechanism, so you can run it on a non X platform; and it has a largish base of pre-existing software in the shape of GNOME. |
| 21:01:51 | pb__ | I don't know how significant those things are. At the end of the day I'm sure we can make it work both ways round. |
| 21:04:13 | pb__ | btw, I also started work on converting gpe-contacts to the new database today, and on my ipkg hack for localisation. |
| 21:07:13 | mallum | cool |
| 21:08:03 | mallum | surely the api only needs to be pretty simple though - set key, get key, delete key |
| 21:09:22 | mallum | I just think gconf make overcomplicate things and be a little overkill |
| 21:09:59 | pb__ | well, you also want notification when keys change, that kind of thing. |
| 21:10:03 | prpplague | mallum: hey, got a sec? |
| 21:10:22 | mallum | prpplague: sure |
| 21:10:33 | prpplague | mallum: i've got an Xfbdev question |
| 21:10:36 | mallum | pb__: but thats all X events with Xsettings |
| 21:10:48 | mallum | prpplague: ok, I'll do my best |
| 21:10:55 | pb__ | sure, but if you have a library you need to expose it with the API somehow. |
| 21:10:57 | prpplague | mallum: where in the Xfbdev config is the default rotation? |
| 21:11:26 | mallum | prpplague: they is no config file for tinyX, everything is passed in the command line |
| 21:11:47 | prpplague | mallum: i mean on the compile |
| 21:12:01 | mallum | prpplague: oh thats the Randr stuff |
| 21:12:05 | prpplague | mallum: i know can pass a command line for say 320x240@270 |
| 21:12:38 | prpplague | mallum: but if i wanted to hard code that, where would i look? in the actual RandR code? |
| 21:13:25 | mallum | prpplague: hmmm, I look for where it parses that switch and see what it sets |
| 21:13:42 | mallum | prpplague: it maybe that it'll set up the defualt rotation without randr |
| 21:14:27 | prpplague | mallum: ok thanks i'll have a look |
| 21:14:43 | prpplague | mallum: i'm still have a few minor issues with x on zaurus |
| 21:14:52 | prpplague | mallum: but made a great deal of progress |
| 21:15:15 | mallum | prpplague: cool, sorry I wasn't much more help |
| 21:15:41 | mallum | prpplague: I've only pokey around with the touchscreen stuff in the tinyx source |
| 21:15:45 | prpplague | mallum: no, thats what i was looking for, just need a push in the right direction, i'm looking at the code now |
| 21:16:17 | prpplague | mallum: i'm actually glad that i'm having to do this, its very educational |
| 21:16:28 | mallum | pb__: I think if you go the gconf route, Im not sure if XSettings is really designed to 'fit in' |
| 21:16:49 | prpplague | mallum: i think i'm going to write up some instructions for doing this again someday |
| 21:17:22 | pb__ | mallum: agreed, I don't think it makes any sense to try to implement GConf "on top of" Xsettings. |
| 21:18:19 | mallum | pb__: remember it stores all its data as a property on the root window, not in a back end database. If it stores it anywhere else it not really XSettings anymore. Though you could use a mechanism to what XSettings uses as a form of IPC |
| 21:18:47 | prpplague | mallum: ha, there is a "#define KLUDGE" in the fbdev.c |
| 21:18:51 | mallum | pb__: the advantages of it, is it'll be very leightweight and simple |
| 21:18:59 | pb__ | mallum: yes, that was my thought: to use X selections as the mechanism for gconf clients to talk to the database. |
| 21:19:03 | mallum | prpplague: yeah look for jg 'HACKATTACKS' too |
| 21:19:48 | mallum | pb__: do you really think configuration stuff will be that complicated to need a database though ? |
| 21:19:49 | pb__ | mallum: having the database backed by some kind of on-disk storage is pretty much obligatory for our application, though I'm sure an xsettings manager could do that too. |
| 21:20:09 | mallum | pb__: yeah it would just serialise to disk on closing |
| 21:20:15 | pb__ | mallum: what do you mean by a "database" exactly? In the sense of being able to look up a key and get a value, yes. |
| 21:20:30 | mallum | pb__: SQL database |
| 21:20:41 | pb__ | mallum: no, I never even considered using SQL for that. |
| 21:21:31 | pb__ | mallum: obviously it would be possible, but it doesn't seem to have many benefits. |
| 21:21:38 | mallum | pb__: ok, I just read the post on gpe list though where you mentioned sqlite |
| 21:22:23 | pb__ | mallum: the other nice thing gconf has is the notion of "schemas", which are a way for an application to describe all its configuration values so that something like the control centre can display them for editing. |
| 21:22:58 | pb__ | mallum: the sqlite thing was just an illustrative reference really, I think we would probably use Berkeley DB for this. |
| 21:23:12 | prpplague | mallum: ha, found, it, thanks! |
| 21:23:24 | pb__ | mallum: or maybe a custom hacked-up database backend if db was not available. |
| 21:24:07 | prpplague | mallum: "#define PRPPLAGUE_INFECTION" |
| 21:27:57 | mallum | pb__: sure if you think it needs schema's and the like then XSettings is probably not the answer |
| 21:29:02 | pb__ | mallum: well, if we are going to provide a control-panel type utility I think something like schemas will be required. |
| 21:29:04 | mallum | pb__: Im thinking of Xsettings for defining simple things like 'current meta-theme dir', 'show pointer', 'screensaver timeout' ... that sort of thing common to all X apps |
| 21:29:44 | pb__ | Yeah, Xsettings could work for that. |
| 21:30:14 | mallum | pb__: Im not thinking of it really for anything more |
| 21:30:18 | pb__ | ah okay. |
| 21:30:34 | mallum | pb__: There probably would be a schema, but only the one |
| 21:31:28 | pb__ | Several of the GPE apps need to be able to configure specific preferences of their own, for example gpe-calendar has two different implementations of the day view and the user should be able to choose between them. That's the kind of thing I anticipated using gconf for. |
| 21:32:35 | pb__ | similarly, I'd like to see the gpe-kbd and gpe-appmgr configuration utilities disappear in favour of a unified database. |
| 21:32:59 | mallum | pb__: hmm, maybe XSettings would be enough for that sort of thing |
| 21:33:31 | pb__ | only if you invent a custom way to express the schema. |
| 21:33:50 | pb__ | That's certainly something we could do, but being able to have GPE apps integrate with the gnome control centre seems kind of cool. |
| 21:34:48 | mallum | pb__: I guess if each key was like /GPE/calender/key, you could mirror that structure with a directory somewhere and store the schema for the keys there |
| 21:35:50 | pb__ | hmm, that doesn't work easily over a network. |
| 21:37:15 | mallum | pb__: hmm, you could have a /GPE/*/schema key that specified a URI for the schema |
| 21:39:23 | pb__ | true, but that still doesn't completely solve the network transparency problem. I can run two clients on two completely disparate machines talking to the same display, and the clients may not have any way to exchange data directly. |
| 21:40:43 | mallum | pb__: if they are on the same display they will be able exchange data over that |
| 21:41:19 | pb__ | right, but having a URI for the schema doesn't help at that point. |
| 21:42:31 | pb__ | I suppose you could implement a special "give me your schema" protocol over X, but that seems like rather a lot of effort to go to. |
| 21:43:53 | mallum | pb__: yeah .. Im not sure how gconf handles all that sort of stuff |
| 21:44:18 | pb__ | in GConf, the schema is actually stored in the database. |
| 21:44:52 | mallum | pb__: ok |
| 21:47:17 | mallum | pb__: well I think the best thoing to do is to maybe figure out exactly what sort of config data needs to be stored. If theres alot of it and it really does need schemas |
| 21:47:38 | mallum | complex schemas Id forget about XSettings |
| 21:48:18 | pb__ | well, none of the schemas are very complex, but they do all vary per application. |
| 21:48:20 | mallum | But remember XSettings may be able to give enough and do it in a very lightweight, simple and standardised way |
| 21:49:13 | pb__ | for example, gpe-kbd wants you to configure your keyboard type, from a choice of standard/tiny/US/fitaly; gpe-appmgr has one two-way choice and three yes/no check boxes. |
| 21:52:30 | pb__ | other obvious stuff that springs to mind is theme selection for both gtk and matchbox; ipaq-sleep timeouts; maybe even locale selection. |
| 21:54:09 | mallum | pb__: for global theme selection, we really need to look at some sort of metatheme implementation |
| 21:54:59 | mallum | pb__: where a directory is specified, and all the various theme config file for each app/toolkit whatever are found there |
| 21:55:22 | mallum | pb__: eg a mathbox theme.xml, a gtkrc and maybe an XResources file |
| 21:57:39 | pb__ | yeah, that would be cool. |
| 21:58:14 | pb__ | well, the current way that seems to work is that GTK themes live in /usr/share/themes/<name>/gtk and so on. |
| 21:59:12 | mallum | pb__: yeah a metatheme is normally just a dir with softlinks to other various files |
| 21:59:24 | mallum | pb__: and a png for what it looks like |
| 21:59:45 | pb__ | I see. |
| 22:02:52 | __moray | hello people |
| 22:03:32 | mallum | pb__: If the schema's are simple like the xkbd suggestion above, theres no reason why the scema couldn't be stored in a key something like; |
| 22:03:43 | pb__ | hi __moray |
| 22:04:44 | mallum | /input/xkbd/layout-allowed-values : us|tiny|uk |
| 22:05:44 | pb__ | mallum: true, but how does that key get set? |
| 22:07:19 | mallum | pb__: when xkbd installs, it sets put a file somewhere that XSettings reads on startup |
| 22:07:51 | pb__ | mallum: hmm, right, but then you're back to needing to be on the same machine. |
| 22:08:36 | mallum | pb__: maybe xkbd sets the values when it starts up ? |
| 22:08:43 | pb__ | mallum: can you do that with xsettings? |
| 22:08:57 | mallum | pb__: I dont see why not |
| 22:09:30 | mallum | pb__: that example implementation doesn't do it, but it would not be hard to make it |
| 22:10:10 | pb__ | how would you do that? |
| 22:11:28 | mallum | pb__: just change the root property |
| 22:12:13 | mallum | pb__: move some of the 'manager' functionality into the client |
| 22:14:19 | pb__ | you mean hijack the _XSETTINGS_S[N] selection, or overwrite the _XSETTINGS_SETTINGS property in the settings window, or something else? |
| 22:15:00 | mallum | overwrite the _XSETTINGS_SETTINGS |
| 22:15:56 | mallum | or maybe something else if its more efficient, set/change a property on the apps window that signal to the manager to add/delete something |
| 22:15:57 | pb__ | hmm, that assumes the "real" manager will do read-modify-write on its property, I wonder if that's true in all cases. |
| 22:19:34 | mallum | pb__: see second option |
| 22:19:45 | pb__ | yeha |
| 22:19:47 | pb__ | yeah even |
| 22:19:51 | mallum | pb__: that probably makes more sense |
| 22:20:09 | pb__ | the second option seems better, but I guess then you're operating outside the XSettings standard so you can only talk to your own manager. |
| 22:21:48 | mallum | pb__: the standard is not concrete, Im sure we could suggest its added to a future revision |
| 22:22:10 | mallum | pb__: we wouldn't be breaking any functionality |
| 22:22:13 | pb__ | mmm, that might be nice. |
| 22:22:21 | mallum | existing functionaility |
| 22:22:54 | mallum | I'll bounce a mail to the xsg list next week with some suggestions |
| 22:23:07 | mallum | see how it floats :) |
| 22:23:16 | pb__ | ok, cool. |
| 22:25:18 | mallum | pb__: I need to read up / download gconf too |
| 22:25:31 | pb__ | good plan. |
| 22:25:36 | pb__ | there is a link to the gconf page on the wiki. |
| 22:27:08 | mallum | cool |
| 22:39:40 | mallum | Im giving gpe props in this article BTW |
| 22:40:25 | pb__ | wahey :-) |
| 22:50:43 | __moray | accidentally ended up demoing GPE to some guy in a shop on Tottenham Court Road today ;) |
| 22:52:30 | cmarqu | re |
| 22:53:04 | __moray | hello cmarqu |
| 22:53:10 | mallum | hey cmarqu __moray |
| 22:53:45 | pb__ | __moray: cool, was he impressed? :-) |
| 22:54:42 | __moray | pb__: well, he certainly didn't seem to assume it's as young as it really is... |
| 22:55:15 | pb__ | Sounds encouraging. |
| 22:55:27 | __moray | pb__: his shop had ipaqs/zauruses, but he'd assumed that an ipaq would be running some Microsoft junk I think |
| 22:56:12 | __moray | what he really wanted to do was demo to me the cf/bluetooth sleeve... |
| 22:56:21 | cmarqu | :) |
| 22:56:32 | __moray | (but of course I didn't have bluetooth stuff installed due to not having any bluetooth devices myself) |
| 22:56:33 | pb__ | __moray: the elusive TDK sleeve? |
| 22:56:41 | __moray | pb__: I think it may well have been, yes... |
| 22:56:56 | __moray | pb__: so I can tell you where to get them :-/ |
| 22:57:27 | pb__ | heh. |
| 22:58:09 | cmarqu | pb__: It occured to me... you wanted me to run scummvm with esd running, right? I now remember that this is my CF with esd removed... strace ag with esdain? |
| 22:58:25 | pb__ | cmarqu: hmm, scummvm seems to work okay with esddsp on my i386, so it does look like some arm specific problem. |
| 22:58:41 | pb__ | cmarqu: no, running it without esd was the right thing to do. |
| 22:58:59 | __moray | should try out scummvm, now he's found the disks/cds of some of his brother's old games |
| 22:59:15 | pb__ | cmarqu: are you in a position to try running scummvm on the ipaq talking to esd on some other machine, or vice versa? |
| 22:59:37 | pb__ | all the ethernet connections in this room are in use right now, so I can't hook up my ipaq :-| |
| 22:59:59 | cmarqu | pb__: Hmm. Never did that before... could try. |
| 23:00:17 | mallum | pb__: cool, esd works over a network ? |
| 23:00:28 | pb__ | mallum: sure does. |
| 23:02:05 | pb__ | cmarqu: it's pretty easy, just run esd with the -tcp -public options. On the client end, do "export ESPEAKER=hostname". |
| 23:06:51 | cmarqu | pb__: Hmm. I run "esddsp dott", and it doesn't work. It's coming out of the iPAQ still. |
| 23:07:03 | pb__ | hmm |
| 23:07:21 | cmarqu | esddsp -s? |
| 23:07:25 | cmarqu | Let met ry |
| 23:07:38 | cmarqu | Hmm. Which port? |
| 23:08:22 | pb__ | 16001 usually. |
| 23:09:49 | cmarqu | Doesn't work either. |
| 23:09:55 | pb__ | Weird. |
| 23:10:31 | pb__ | Both ESPEAKER and -s work on my desktop. |
| 23:11:52 | cmarqu | morphin:~$ esd -tcp -public -port 16001 |
| 23:11:52 | cmarqu | - accepting connections on port 16001 |
| 23:12:03 | cmarqu | sh-2.03# esddsp -v -m --server=morphin:16001 dott |
| 23:12:03 | cmarqu | server:morphin:16001 |
| 23:12:03 | cmarqu | name:dott |
| 23:12:03 | cmarqu | command line:dott |
| 23:12:14 | cmarqu | Not using the network. Hmm. |
| 23:13:48 | mallum | pb__: cool, you could use you ipaq as a bug then |
| 23:14:08 | mallum | pb__: leave in meating room with wireless card attached |
| 23:14:42 | pb__ | heh, yeah. |
| 23:14:55 | cmarqu | mallum: Does mbmenu cope fine with multiple iconXX entries? Like icon16, icon32, icon48? |
| 23:15:44 | mallum | cmarqu: it will resize the icon to what ever is specified |
| 23:16:27 | cmarqu | mallum: Well, if I provide 3 different icons, will it pick the right size, or just one of them and scale as it wants? |
| 23:16:46 | pb__ | cmarqu: well, I have my ipaq on the net now, seems to work fine if I run dott under esddsp on my desktop and have it talk to the server on the ipaq. |
| 23:16:51 | mallum | cmarqu: and will read icon,icon[16|32|48] in that order of preference |
| 23:16:58 | mallum | cmarqu: only xpms though currently |
| 23:17:27 | pb__ | cmarqu: trying the other way round may be more tricky, I don't have enough flash to install scummvm on the ipaq. |
| 23:18:10 | cmarqu | mallum: Okay, thanks. That'll help me to make sure my dott icon is not blurredin gpe-appmgr like on scap. |
| 23:18:23 | cmarqu | pb__: Ket me try the host-->ipaq direction too. |
| 23:19:05 | __moray | mallum: just to check, you're busy tomorrow, yes? (personally I'm busy until 4 or something anyway it seems) |
| 23:20:29 | mallum | cmarqu: you have to run mmenu with -icon <icon-size> for it to show icons |
| 23:20:34 | mallum | cmarqu: eg -icon 16 |
| 23:21:15 | mallum | __moray: yeha, Im visiting my folks tommorow ... probably wont be back in London till about 7/8ish - when/where are you and pb ( if still ) planning to meet ? |
| 23:21:53 | cmarqu | mallum: Do you think we should have that by default? Why is it not the default? |
| 23:22:43 | mallum | cmarqu: yeah probably make sense |
| 23:23:03 | cmarqu | pb__: host-->ipaq works for me too |
| 23:23:18 | pb__ | cmarqu: okay, so it looks like it's esddsp's fault. |
| 23:23:39 | pb__ | cmarqu: I'll look at it tomorrow, when I get bored of gpe-contacts. |
| 23:24:16 | cmarqu | pb__: Cool |
| 23:25:40 | cmarqu | pb__: BTW, why don't we have esdctl and all the other stuff as a binary in the esd package? |
| 23:25:43 | __moray | mallum/pb__: I don't think there's a plan just now, but I'll be around if anyone does want to meet (probably will be down again before that long anyway though) |
| 23:27:01 | pb__ | cmarqu: didn't think it was useful enough to justify the space, we could package that kind of thing separately though. |
| 23:27:40 | cmarqu | pb__: Okay. Well, if esddsp does the job, then it's okay |
| 23:29:35 | pb__ | __moray/mallum: well, we could meet for a pint in the evening, after mallum is done with his family duties. |
| 23:29:58 | cmarqu | mallum: Hmm. I still don't get icons. dott's menu says icon=dott16.xpm |
| 23:30:18 | cmarqu | and the file is there, but it doesn't get used. Want me to strace? |
| 23:31:24 | mallum | cmarqu: you are running with -icon switch ? |
| 23:31:39 | mallum | cmarqu: hmm, try "'s round the menu definition |
| 23:31:46 | mallum | icon def rather |
| 23:31:57 | cmarqu | mallum: Yes, I am. |
| 23:32:12 | __moray | decides to nag his brother even more about getting ASDL here (very slow connection...) |
| 23:33:08 | cmarqu | mallum: Same with quoted filename |
| 23:33:43 | cmarqu | open("dott16.xpm", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) |
| 23:33:54 | mallum | cmarqu: ah |
| 23:33:58 | cmarqu | Hmm. But I don't need to give the full path, do I? |
| 23:34:14 | mallum | cmarqu: yep |
| 23:35:33 | cmarqu | Hmm, works with the full path. |
| 23:36:07 | cmarqu | But I know I explicitly removed the full path, since it worked for other apps that had just the filename there. |
| 23:36:22 | cmarqu | Vewwy vewwy strange. |
| 23:36:56 | mallum | cmarqu: maybe they were in the directory you launched mmenu from |
| 23:37:08 | cmarqu | mallum: Could be. |
| 23:37:12 | __moray | pb__/mallum: hm, we could try meeting somewhere that's relatively easy for mallum to get to? (but I don't know where he'd be coming from) |
| 23:38:20 | cmarqu | mallum: Well, it looks like dott and my other scummvm packages are the only apps to define an xpm icon though, so maybe it doesn't make sense to use -icon before you have png support. |
| 23:39:38 | mallum | __moray: Im coming from islington end of town |
| 23:39:52 | mallum | __moray: old street way / islington is good for me |
| 23:41:40 | pb__ | that would suit me too, since I'll have to get the train from Cambridge. |
| 23:41:50 | __moray | mallum/pb__: want to suggest anything specific? (I'm not from round these parts, as they say) |
| 23:42:04 | pb__ | me neither, mallum is the only local lad. |
| 23:42:35 | mallum | pb__: comes into kings cross right ? |
| 23:42:37 | cmarqu | icon48=gpe-tetris.png\ |
| 23:42:52 | cmarqu | Hmm. So gpe-appmgr knows where to look. |
| 23:43:10 | __moray | mallum: that's generally quickest from cambridge, yes |
| 23:43:14 | pb__ | mallum: yeah. |
| 23:43:26 | mallum | cmarqu: maybe it has a standard icon dir its searching |
| 23:43:39 | pb__ | I think gpe-appmgr searches /usr/share/pixmaps |
| 23:44:16 | mallum | pb__: islington is not far from kings cross, but I dont know of many bars in islington :( |
| 23:46:25 | pb__ | ah. :-/ |
| 23:46:57 | cmarqu | mallum: Any problems with making mmenu look in that location too? |
| 23:47:20 | mallum | pb__: I normally drink old street / hoxton square way |
| 23:47:53 | mallum | pb__: maybe best if you 2 head hoxton square way, meet there, pick a bar you like and give me a call later ? |
| 23:47:57 | mallum | cmarqu: sure |
| 23:48:13 | cmarqu | mallum: Thx |
| 23:49:13 | mallum | cmarqu: I have began to merge in some png support as well |
| 23:49:33 | mallum | cmarqu: though it might make more sense if small icons are xpms |
| 23:51:19 | pb__ | mallum: sounds like a good plan. __moray, suggest you pick a convenient time and place to meet and let me know. |
| 23:51:28 | cmarqu | mallum: Okay, I'll make the icon48 ong, and icon and icon16 xom |
| 23:51:30 | pb__ | bedtime for me now. |
| 23:51:41 | mallum | pb__: you got my mobile > |
| 23:51:41 | cmarqu | mallum: Okay, I'll make the icon48 png, and icon and icon16 xpm (sorry) |
| 23:51:47 | cmarqu | pb__: G'Night |
| 23:51:55 | pb__ | mallum: yup, got the number. |
| 23:52:10 | mallum | pb__: cool |
| 23:52:15 | pb__ | night. |
| 23:55:45 | __moray | mallum: ok, I guess I'll meet pb tomorrow then we'll contact you? (or something :) |
