| 04:19:18 | colin_werk | re |
| 08:09:56 | pb | morning |
| 08:10:53 | colin_werk | Morning :) |
| 08:11:03 | colin_werk | Off to lunch. |
| 08:16:12 | pb | mallum: ordered the sleeve |
| 10:30:24 | mallum | pb: hi |
| 10:30:28 | mallum | pb: cool :)) |
| 10:31:08 | mallum | pb: lets just hope they work |
| 10:51:29 | pb | heh, yeah |
| 10:52:39 | pb | I'm compiling affix at the moment. |
| 10:52:40 | mallum | jamey seemed to think there shouldn't be any probs |
| 10:52:45 | pb | good |
| 10:52:57 | mallum | and he said he'd help out if there were ... |
| 10:53:06 | mallum | ooo affix for ARM ? |
| 10:53:09 | pb | yeah |
| 10:53:20 | pb | it all seems to be built now, just need to copy it onto the ipaq |
| 10:54:19 | mallum | did you build the little gtk app too ? |
| 10:54:35 | pb | not yet |
| 10:54:51 | pb | thought I'd wait and see if the stack worked first :-) |
| 10:55:21 | mallum | indeed |
| 10:55:58 | pb | all the user-space stuff is one big libtool horror, I'm having all kinds of trouble getting it to install. |
| 11:09:11 | mallum | ewe |
| 11:21:26 | pb | right |
| 11:21:28 | pb | :-( |
| 11:27:14 | pb | hmm, well, it's all installed |
| 11:27:21 | pb | looks like I left my bluetooth card at home though :-( |
| 11:27:26 | pb | I'll test it this evening |
| 11:27:41 | pb | or I suppose the TDK thing should arrive tomorrow :-)) |
| 11:35:51 | pb | aha, just remembered I have a PCMCIA bluetooth card as well (duh) |
| 11:36:06 | pb | well, affix works with that at least enough that it can see my phone: |
| 11:39:10 | mallum | pb: wanna trade a bluetooth card for a wavelan one ? |
| 11:41:55 | pb | mallum: no thanks, I already have more wireless cards that I know what to do with |
| 11:42:04 | pb | mallum: rfcomm works as well, yay! |
| 11:42:14 | mallum | cool :)) |
| 11:42:26 | mallum | yeah I have too many wireless cards too :( |
| 11:42:32 | mallum | was worth a try though :) |
| 11:43:34 | mallum | I've seen usb bluetooth dongle thingys cheap , may grab one of them ... |
| 11:43:52 | mallum | ( this is just for my laptop ) |
| 11:50:44 | pb | damn, no access to download the latest gtk frontend. |
| 11:51:19 | mallum | ? |
| 11:51:25 | mallum | broken link ? |
| 11:53:27 | pb | looks like no read access on the file |
| 11:53:45 | pb | comes up "Forbidden" |
| 12:09:43 | Nermal | prods mallum |
| 12:18:28 | pb | careful with mallum, he bites. |
| 12:19:41 | Nermal | whats the gpe palmtop enviroment ? |
| 12:20:50 | Nermal | ooh |
| 12:22:55 | mallum | its special |
| 12:23:09 | mallum | Nermal: see gpe.handhelds.org |
| 12:23:25 | mallum | Nermal: and then do a ipkg list | grep gpe |
| 12:23:39 | mallum | Nermal: and install some fun stuff |
| 12:24:00 | Nermal | hmm. |
| 12:24:04 | Nermal | advantage over opie ? |
| 12:25:22 | pb | based on X11 rather than Qt |
| 12:25:57 | Nermal | ah |
| 12:25:59 | Nermal | hmm |
| 12:26:11 | pb | "gpe-apps" is the magic package to install if you want to try it. |
| 12:26:16 | Nermal | may try it when ntl finally come and install broadband in my house :P |
| 12:27:38 | pb | ha |
| 12:28:54 | mallum | Nermal: based on a real windowing system |
| 12:29:37 | Nermal | hmmm |
| 12:30:53 | mallum | http://www.apple.com/isync/ |
| 12:31:50 | theFallen | hi all |
| 12:32:21 | moray | hello |
| 12:32:42 | theFallen | how is the best way to get gpe going on my ipaq |
| 12:32:57 | moray | theFallen: do you have Familiar on there? |
| 12:32:59 | theFallen | just did a clean install of familiar 5.3 |
| 12:33:16 | moray | <pb> "gpe-apps" is the magic package to install if you want to try it. |
| 12:33:30 | mallum | pb: did jg say anything interesting last night ? |
| 12:33:33 | theFallen | I messed up a few things so doing another install |
| 12:33:41 | pb | mallum: no |
| 12:33:48 | pb | mallum: just suggested I ask keithp |
| 12:34:26 | theFallen | ok will gove it a go thanks moray |
| 12:35:01 | mallum | pb: :( |
| 12:35:04 | theFallen | gove=give |
| 12:35:06 | moray | theFallen: I don't know what's in 5.3, but I suspect you'll need to add the unstabale feed |
| 12:35:56 | pb | right; the 0.6-pre feed will probably work too |
| 12:37:07 | theFallen | yeah I think so I tries a bit earlier by installing from the unstable feed at gpe but there were a couple of libraries in 5.3 that were missing I'll update ipg.conf to the unstalbe feed and then install gpe-apps |
| 12:37:56 | theFallen | another thing it seems a clean install of 5.3 has no menu in matchbox |
| 12:38:38 | pb | mallum, are the 0.3.1 debs final now, should I upload them? |
| 12:43:59 | mallum | pb: no not final yet |
| 12:44:13 | mallum | pb: probably wont get a chance to sort them out till weekend now :( |
| 12:44:22 | colin_werk | BTW, when I "ipkg upgrade"d yesterday, I didn't get X up (no /etc/init.d/x). Running /etc/init.d/gpe-dm worked though. |
| 12:44:44 | colin_werk | Other ppl had the same problem. |
| 12:44:49 | pb | mallum: ok |
| 12:45:18 | pb | colin_werk: right, /etc/init.d/x is in the nullxdm package now |
| 12:45:29 | mallum | pb: I have to figure out why that update-alternatives stuff isn't working :( |
| 12:45:46 | pb | colin_werk: but the latest gpe-dm should run automatically on boot, are you saying that is still not working? |
| 12:46:11 | colin_werk | pb: Cool, so I suggested the right package to people who didn't want gpe :) |
| 12:46:35 | colin_werk | pb: I updated very late last night (in fact, early this morning), and no, it didn't start automatiacally. |
| 12:46:46 | pb | hmph |
| 12:46:59 | pb | weird, I wonder what's wrong with it now. |
| 12:48:43 | colin_werk | pb: I have my iPAQ at home, we can debug it later with my installation if you want. |
| 12:51:56 | pb | colin_werk: cool |
| 13:04:30 | pb | aha, afe is downloadable now :-) |
| 13:08:02 | mallum | woohoo |
| 13:08:46 | pb | more libtool :-/ |
| 13:10:53 | theFallen | so gpe-media plays ogg? |
| 13:16:08 | pb | mallum: well, afe seems to run ok |
| 13:16:16 | pb | mallum: but my ipaq just locked up, don't know whose fault that was. |
| 13:17:20 | mallum | pb: does it work nice ? |
| 13:17:31 | pb | mallum: seems pretty nice |
| 13:17:46 | pb | mallum: might have a go at making some binary packages later |
| 13:18:49 | theFallen | what is afe? |
| 13:20:12 | pb | frontend for the affix bluetooth stack |
| 13:20:42 | theFallen | thanks |
| 13:24:22 | pb | back later |
| 13:32:48 | theFallen | ok I have installed gpe-apps and I am met with the login screen but I get no input method any hints? |
| 13:34:19 | theFallen | I like the log on screen :) |
| 13:34:50 | theFallen | but how can I input past it? |
| 13:38:41 | theFallen | ok I see I'm missing libXft.so.1 |
| 13:38:51 | theFallen | so I can't run xkbd |
| 13:38:58 | theFallen | ot xstroke |
| 13:48:26 | mallum | must drop the libxft dep on xkbd .... |
| 13:50:55 | colin_werk | (or add a Depend: line somewhere :) |
| 13:51:39 | mallum | yeah that too ;) |
| 14:00:13 | pb_ | mallum: hell, it appears the sleeve was sold out. |
| 14:10:25 | mallum | pb_: uh ? Did you not call them up ? |
| 14:20:49 | pb_ | mallum: yes, I did. |
| 14:21:19 | pb_ | mallum: it's very bizarre: I spoke to them this morning, placed the order, and they said all was well. But I've just received an email telling me that that the item is "discontinued". |
| 14:22:39 | colin_werk | Going home, BBIAB. |
| 14:27:02 | mallum | pb_: hmmm, I was meant to recieve a confirm email from them ... |
| 14:27:08 | mallum | checks spam folder |
| 14:27:55 | mallum | finds it in spam folder |
| 14:28:22 | mallum | pb_: did you call them up ? get annoyed and they may let you have a new one for the same price ( which they should do really () |
| 14:56:24 | mallum | hometime ... |
| 15:05:26 | pb_ | damn PC still keeps flaking out |
| 15:05:35 | pb_ | I gotta get rid of this nvidia :-( |
| 15:06:46 | cmarqu | pb_: I'm home now. Tell me when you have time to look into gpe-dm. |
| 15:07:13 | pb_ | sure, let's do it. |
| 15:07:33 | pb_ | you've got -0.13-3, right? |
| 15:07:37 | cmarqu | "Connect script failed" Hmm. |
| 15:07:43 | cmarqu | monicom time. |
| 15:08:22 | cmarqu | Ooops. Version: 0.12 |
| 15:08:29 | pb_ | ah |
| 15:08:41 | pb_ | I wonder why ipkg didn't fetch the new one for you. |
| 15:08:48 | cmarqu | I am sure it installed 0.13-something last night. At least downloaded. |
| 15:09:02 | moray | btw, what's anyone using to connect to their ipaqs? pcmcia networking? I've been using USB, but am fed up with it dying after a while |
| 15:09:08 | pb_ | cmarqu: it can fail to install at the last minute because of conflicts and the like. |
| 15:09:26 | pb_ | moray: I use a CF ethernet card mostly. |
| 15:09:28 | cmarqu | moray: Ole ppp :/ |
| 15:09:47 | moray | hm, PPP (over serial) is rather slow for NFS etc. |
| 15:10:04 | cmarqu | Yeah, it is. |
| 15:10:24 | moray | pb_: yes, I was wondering about one of those - is there a sleeve with more than one CF slot so I could have some more local storage too? |
| 15:10:47 | pb_ | moray: there's the nexipak, but I've heard rumours it isn't totally reliable. |
| 15:10:49 | moray | and does the CF ethernet card make the battery run down very fast? |
| 15:11:19 | pb_ | not sure, I've never conducted any scientific experiments. |
| 15:11:21 | moray | not that that's especially important given I'd mostly be using it at a desk |
| 15:11:40 | cmarqu | Upgrading gpe-dm from 0.12 to 0.13-3 |
| 15:11:40 | cmarqu | ERROR: Package gpe-dm wants to install file /etc/init.d/gpe-dm |
| 15:11:40 | cmarqu | Please move this file out of the way and try again. |
| 15:11:46 | cmarqu | So that was it. |
| 15:12:16 | cmarqu | "But that file is already provided by package <no package>" |
| 15:12:20 | pb_ | moray: well, indeed, wired ethernet does tend to limit your mobility a bit :-) |
| 15:13:07 | pb_ | moray: I've also been experimenting with 802.11b a bit, but haven't managed to make it work reliably. And I suspect that really _does_ drain the battery, some of the wireless cards quote up to 300mA of current draw. |
| 15:13:28 | pb_ | cmarqu: ah, that old problem. |
| 15:15:50 | pb_ | apropos of battery life, I accidentally left my ipaq switched on last night. This morning, unsurprisingly, the battery was flat. I was a bit dismayed, though, to discover that it was _completely_ flat and everything from RAM was lost. Is there any program I should be running to put the ipaq to sleep automatically when charge gets below some threshold? |
| 15:17:07 | cmarqu | ipaq-sleep? |
| 15:17:21 | pb_ | aha, that sounds like the one |
| 15:17:26 | cmarqu | Not sure if it monitors charge... |
| 15:17:34 | pb_ | oh |
| 15:17:55 | moray | pb_: well, I really have several separate needs/wants - 1. I'd like a reliable connection for development 2. I'd like a means to use CF for additional storage, unless we really manage to cut down on things' sizes ;) 3. it would be nice to be able to use a wireless card --- a PCMCIA sleeve may be cheaper given I already have spare wired/wireless PCMCIA card, but is also rather large |
| 15:18:16 | cmarqu | Looking at miniapm, the charge level "swings" widely, should probably be damped somehow. |
| 15:18:50 | pb_ | btw, does the APM data take account of a second battery? |
| 15:19:18 | cmarqu | It has a second entry in the /proc file IIRC |
| 15:19:43 | cmarqu | mallum had plans to add that to miniapm, or has already |
| 15:20:07 | pb_ | moray: TDK do a combined bluetooth/CF sleeve. If bluetooth would meet your wireless needs, that would be a way of keeping the CF slot free for actual CF. |
| 15:20:32 | cmarqu | How come no package claims /etc/init.d/gpe-dm (since that's what the <no package> message says)? |
| 15:20:49 | pb_ | cmarqu: you must have installed it manually, 0.12 and earlier gpe-dms didn't provide an initscript at all. |
| 15:21:20 | cmarqu | Yeah, could be. I forgot a lot during my vacation :) |
| 15:21:28 | pb_ | A combined MMC/CF sleeve would be kind of cool, I wonder if anybody makes those. |
| 15:21:41 | pb_ | ... though, I seem to remember hearing that MMC was a bit too slow to use for primary storage. |
| 15:30:52 | pb_ | reads about how to build a sleeve |
| 15:31:47 | Nermal | is away: home :) |
| 15:32:37 | cmarqu | Ah, the calculator guy wrote to the gpe list. |
| 15:32:46 | pb_ | Yes. |
| 15:32:53 | pb_ | Did anybody write back to him yet? |
| 15:33:18 | cmarqu | Apparently not. |
| 15:33:22 | moray | I wrote some vague reply I think? |
| 15:33:42 | moray | (hasn't got through yet apparently) |
| 15:35:20 | pb_ | moray: the lists seem to have unpredictable (but sometimes long: up to almost 24 hours in some cases) delays at the moment. :-/ |
| 15:35:35 | pb_ | mccarthy! |
| 15:36:01 | mccarthy | wow, that was a warm welcome... what are you going to ask me to do? ;) |
| 15:36:12 | pb_ | :-) |
| 15:36:20 | pb_ | are you the ipaq-sleep man? |
| 15:36:25 | mccarthy | yep |
| 15:36:28 | pb_ | aha |
| 15:37:02 | pb_ | does ipaq-sleep have the ability to suspend the machine when remaining charge reaches some critical threshold, to stop you running the battery completely out of juice? |
| 15:37:24 | mccarthy | nope |
| 15:37:28 | mccarthy | that would be nice though ;) |
| 15:37:29 | pb_ | could it? :-) |
| 15:38:13 | pb_ | I suppose ideally it should pop up a dialog box with a picture of a deflating battery and warn the user that the end is in sight. |
| 15:38:22 | mccarthy | what happens when you *force* a suspend and then the user tries to *unsuspend* it? |
| 15:38:32 | pb_ | put it back to sleep immediately |
| 15:38:36 | pb_ | I think that's what WinCE does. |
| 15:39:08 | mccarthy | I dont like the popping up a window thing since that means a dependency on *something* |
| 15:39:19 | mccarthy | gtk or at least X |
| 15:39:21 | pb_ | true enough |
| 15:39:46 | moray | you want it to present an interface a GUI app can poll to do that |
| 15:40:00 | moray | (if anything) |
| 15:40:21 | pb_ | maybe just run an external program and look at the return code. |
| 15:41:00 | pb_ | then we can create a pretty gpe front end for it, and the opie guys can do likewise. |
| 15:44:24 | mccarthy | I dont get it.... how do you mean "run an external program"? |
| 15:44:39 | pb_ | fork, exec |
| 15:44:55 | mccarthy | you mean something like "exec(low_battery_warning);" |
| 15:45:07 | pb_ | yeah |
| 15:45:15 | mccarthy | and then have an update-alternatives for what "low_battery_warning" actually means? |
| 15:45:38 | pb_ | maybe, or set it in an ipaq-sleep config file if there is one. |
| 15:45:53 | mccarthy | there is one |
| 15:45:59 | moray | I'd do it the other way round, let the GPE/QT things poll a program when they want to |
| 15:46:21 | pb_ | moray: but that means you have to have this graphical thing sitting in RAM all the time. |
| 15:46:21 | mccarthy | but what do I do about the return value? |
| 15:46:34 | mccarthy | plus you would have to have it *now* |
| 15:46:36 | mccarthy | ;) |
| 15:46:41 | moray | then you don't need to reconfigure it depending on the interface, or need to be running one |
| 15:46:43 | pb_ | mccarthy: use waitpid to find it out; if it's 1 (say) then do nothing; if it's 0 then put the machine to sleep. |
| 15:46:54 | mccarthy | I am looking for a solution that is simple now and then I can pawn off other parts to someone else |
| 15:47:16 | mccarthy | hmmm I dont know waitpid |
| 15:47:26 | pb_ | moray: well, you don't _need_ to be running an interface, you can configure the helper to be /bin/true. |
| 15:47:36 | moray | pb_: yes, but if you add it into the battery monitor applet then it's not going to be a problem |
| 15:47:41 | pb_ | true |
| 15:48:13 | moray | also, won't ipaqsleep be running as root, and not know what user etc. to run the warning for? |
| 15:48:22 | mccarthy | why dont we just ask mallum to have the battery monitor put the thing to sleep? |
| 15:48:30 | mccarthy | maray: yep |
| 15:48:35 | mccarthy | moray: yep |
| 15:48:56 | pb_ | moray: doesn't really matter what user you're running as, you can just force DISPLAY=:0 |
| 15:49:25 | mccarthy | pb_: but do we have an "accept" button or do we just let it sit there for a secon and then sleep anyway? |
| 15:49:27 | moray | pb_: hm, that doesn't feel nice to me ;) |
| 15:49:42 | pb_ | moray: well, no, it isn't really :-) |
| 15:50:08 | mccarthy | I would imagine no accept button would be better |
| 15:50:09 | moray | though obviously it's less silly to assume :0 on an ipaq than it would be on a desktop Linux box |
| 15:50:39 | moray | mccarthy: maybe you need a cancel button to let you foolishly keep it awake a moment? |
| 15:51:09 | moray | (if you just need to write down that phone number before letting it sleep, or whatever) |
| 15:51:12 | mccarthy | moray: I dont want *any* buttons, I am simply trying to see what ipaq-sleep should expect some external program to tell it |
| 15:51:52 | mccarthy | I think maybe a 1-minute warning and then sleep.... thats easier (for me anyway :) |
| 15:51:55 | pb_ | mccarthy: I think you have two buttons, an "okay, put it to sleep" one and a "no, let me squeeze every last drop of power out of the battery" one. |
| 15:51:57 | moray | mccarthy: ok, then wouldn't the right answer be for the external program to allow or refuse the request to sleep? that's what already happens with the lower level apm stuff etc. |
| 15:52:22 | pb_ | mccarthy: and a timeout, so that if the user has fallen asleep at the wheel and doesn't click on anything, it just goes to sleep by default after 15 seconds or something. |
| 15:52:49 | moray | pb_: though *maybe* the interface should deal with the timeout? |
| 15:53:27 | mccarthy | hmmm.....see, this is why I haven't done it already! |
| 15:53:48 | pb_ | mccarthy: well, I think any of these ideas will work, you just need to pick one and implement it :-) |
| 15:53:54 | mccarthy | BTW, ipaq-sleep is a really stupid and silly bit of code that is about as inefficient and sloppy as possible |
| 15:53:57 | mccarthy | it just works |
| 15:55:06 | cmarqu | spams scap a bit |
| 15:55:41 | mccarthy | I will have to think about it.... |
| 15:55:59 | mccarthy | I am under 24 hours until I depart for "down under" so I doubt anything will happen soon.... |
| 15:56:11 | pb_ | fair enough |
| 15:56:26 | pb_ | is the ipaq-sleep source online, perhaps I will have a go at it |
| 15:56:45 | mccarthy | I might start with a simple "run this external program, wait 15 seconds and then sleep" for now |
| 15:57:16 | mccarthy | a *really* dirty way to have a "cancel" button would be for the external program to run "/etc/init.d/ipaq-sleep stop" :) |
| 15:58:18 | mccarthy | while ugly, this would be the least difficult for me to work out.... |
| 15:58:42 | pb_ | right |
| 15:58:54 | mccarthy | that way ipaq-sleep warns you, and gives you 15 seconds (configurable, of course) and then quits UNLESS YOU TURN HIM OFF COMPLETELY |
| 15:59:10 | mccarthy | and then you just die anyway.... |
| 15:59:32 | mccarthy | I have a meeting....biab |
| 16:00:03 | cmarqu | The source... give us the source... :) |
| 16:00:45 | pb_ | back later, going to the pub |
| 16:53:16 | cmarqu | Quick beer. |
| 16:53:59 | cmarqu | It's probably good for Free SW that British pubs close that early :) |
| 16:54:04 | pb_ | heh |
| 16:56:58 | mccarthy | this is sad, but I am not sure I know which version of the source is current! (I need CVS on my box here....) |
| 16:57:22 | pb_ | crumbs |
| 16:57:59 | pb_ | another reason why familiar ought to contain source packages, I suppose :-/ |
| 16:58:00 | mccarthy | wait.... |
| 16:58:04 | mccarthy | I think this is good news... |
| 16:58:06 | mccarthy | [mccarthy@ballotini ipaq-sleep-0.7]$ scp pebble:/usr/bin/ipaq-sleep testips |
| 16:58:06 | mccarthy | ipaq-sleep 100% |*****************************| 20632 00:00 |
| 16:58:06 | mccarthy | [mccarthy@ballotini ipaq-sleep-0.7]$ diff testips ipaq-sleep |
| 16:58:07 | mccarthy | [mccarthy@ballotini ipaq-sleep-0.7]$ ls -lt |
| 16:58:07 | mccarthy | total 136 |
| 16:58:08 | mccarthy | -rwxr-xr-x 1 mccarthy user 20632 Jul 18 14:03 testips* |
| 16:58:10 | mccarthy | drwxr-xr-x 3 mccarthy user 4096 Mar 27 10:43 IPK/ |
| 16:58:11 | mccarthy | -rwxr-xr-x 1 mccarthy user 20632 Mar 27 10:32 ipaq-sleep* |
| 16:58:14 | mccarthy | -rwxr-xr-x 1 mccarthy user 35703 Mar 27 10:32 ipaq-sleep-local* |
| 16:58:15 | mccarthy | -rw-r--r-- 1 mccarthy user 15123 Mar 27 10:32 ipaq-sleep.c |
| 16:58:18 | mccarthy | -rw------- 1 mccarthy user 15122 Mar 27 10:32 ipaq-sleep.c.bck |
| 16:58:19 | mccarthy | drwxr-xr-x 2 mccarthy user 4096 Mar 8 12:12 released/ |
| 16:58:21 | mccarthy | -rw------- 1 mccarthy user 570 Mar 5 15:01 ipaq-sleep.h.bck |
| 16:58:23 | mccarthy | -rw-r--r-- 1 mccarthy user 548 Mar 5 15:01 ipaq-sleep.h |
| 16:58:25 | mccarthy | -rw-r--r-- 1 mccarthy user 416 Mar 5 15:01 Makefile |
| 16:58:34 | mccarthy | the binaries on my ipaq and desktop are the same |
| 16:58:37 | pb_ | yay! |
| 16:58:47 | mccarthy | and the source has the same modification date as the binary |
| 16:58:54 | mccarthy | ergo, we have a winner?! |
| 16:59:03 | pb_ | looks that way. |
| 16:59:05 | pb_ | cool! |
| 16:59:09 | cmarqu | Detective McCarthy. |
| 16:59:28 | mccarthy | thats Professor Detective McCarthy to you ;) |
| 16:59:39 | cmarqu | Oh, sorry. |
| 16:59:52 | mccarthy | ...... |
| 17:00:02 | mccarthy | cmarqu: you are not 15 like dc are you? |
| 17:00:20 | cmarqu | mccarthy: nah, twice that number. |
| 17:00:31 | mccarthy | ahh, me too (mostly) |
| 17:02:54 | cmarqu | This procedure reminds me of a case where they had to get the sources from a tape from an off-site storage facility. An ex-cow-orker's $HOME had the latest sources, nowhere else to be found. |
| 17:04:14 | mccarthy | the source is now available in http://granular.che.pitt.edu/~mccarthy/feed |
| 17:04:36 | mccarthy | Please do not think poorly of me that it is horrendously ugly! |
| 17:04:56 | mccarthy | you *asked* to see the source! you should have simply been happy that it worked |
| 17:05:08 | cmarqu | :) |
| 17:05:29 | mccarthy | BTW, there are essentially no comments, and I likely do not understand how it works anymore.... |
| 17:05:41 | mccarthy | but I guess you can ask |
| 17:07:29 | mccarthy | pb_: I guess there is no reason not to have the pop-up be pure X, since I check for user input activity using X screen saver extensions.... |
| 17:07:57 | pb_ | mccarthy: true enough, though it's rather harder to write an attractive popup in pure X |
| 17:08:19 | mccarthy | This should likely be looking at something else non-X specific, but /proc/stats/micro is not on anythingbeyond the 36/37xx |
| 17:08:39 | pb_ | touch-screen interrupts? |
| 17:08:51 | mccarthy | and someone recently asked for IR probing, if anyone is really getting into hacking on this... |
| 17:09:33 | mccarthy | pb_: I do not recall, but I think touchscreen interupts changed for no apparent reason... |
| 17:09:40 | pb_ | ah |
| 17:09:59 | mccarthy | for example, h3600_ts is currently changing on my ipaq which is sitting idle next to me... |
| 17:10:14 | mccarthy | (plus we would have to worry about the buttons) |
| 17:10:36 | mccarthy | I think nils wrote something in gpe-screensaver that might be a better bet, but I never took the time to really read it |
| 17:10:40 | pb_ | yeah, true. |
| 17:10:58 | pb_ | no, I've never looked at gpe-screensaver, I don't know if it even compiles or runs ;-) |
| 17:11:26 | mccarthy | pb_: it must, because there is an ancient ipk oin the gpe.hh.org page that I had installed for a while |
| 17:11:31 | pb_ | aha |
| 17:12:18 | mccarthy | oops. I guess I mean ipaq-screensaver |
| 17:12:19 | pb_ | hmm, he seems to sit on /dev/touchscreen/* and use select() to watch for activity |
| 17:13:20 | mccarthy | Does that sound like a good idea? |
| 17:13:29 | mccarthy | (and is it portable to all ipaqs?) |
| 17:13:49 | pb_ | It's probably portable to all ipaqs, but maybe not to other devices. |
| 17:14:06 | pb_ | It needs you to be root, which might be undesirable (or maybe you have to be anyway for other reasons) |
| 17:14:32 | mccarthy | pb_: i think you might have to be root to actually suspend the thing dont you? |
| 17:15:02 | pb_ | mccarthy: probably, I don't have a clue how you put it into suspend mode. |
| 17:15:19 | mccarthy | look at ipaq-sleep.h |
| 17:15:37 | mccarthy | (there has got to be a low-level way, but that was easier) |
| 17:15:48 | mccarthy | I think apm -s would work too |
| 17:16:15 | pb_ | ah, I see |
| 17:16:38 | pb_ | well, I think you could make a fairly convincing case that, on ipaq at least, pm_helper should probably be setuid so anybody could suspend. |
| 17:17:17 | mccarthy | I guess, since any user who has physical access can suspend *anyway* |
| 17:17:23 | pb_ | right. |
| 17:18:00 | mccarthy | pb_: whats with miniclipboard |
| 17:18:21 | pb_ | mccarthy: what d'ya mean, what's with it? |
| 17:18:32 | mccarthy | pb_: what s its purpose in life? |
| 17:18:50 | pb_ | mccarthy: it provides buttons for cut and paste. |
| 17:19:15 | mccarthy | pb_: that work across all apps? |
| 17:19:22 | pb_ | mccarthy: that's the idea |
| 17:19:46 | mccarthy | pb_: BTW, I think gpe-what's dock icon has its transparency off by a pixel |
| 17:19:56 | pb_ | hmm |
| 17:20:01 | pb_ | could well be |
| 17:20:10 | mccarthy | I have a white line down the left side in my dock |
| 17:21:05 | mccarthy | pb_: since I was officially given maintainorship of keyctl should I upload it to gpe CVS? |
| 17:21:18 | pb_ | sure. please do. |
| 17:21:27 | mccarthy | have you tried it?? |
| 17:21:30 | pb_ | not yet |
| 17:21:47 | mccarthy | now if only I could remember where *that* source is :) |
| 17:21:51 | pb_ | :-) |
| 17:22:43 | mccarthy | I guess I could send ipaq-sleep while I am at it? |
| 17:23:02 | pb_ | by all means |
| 17:25:50 | mccarthy | pb_: is there an ipk for gpe-timesheet? |
| 17:26:51 | pb_ | not yet, gpe-timesheet isn't really finished. |
| 17:26:59 | pb_ | as in, it doesn't do anything useful yet :-| |
| 17:27:19 | pb_ | it kind of got stalled along with a whole load of other things waiting for the new database schema. |
| 17:40:57 | mccarthy | pb_: how do I update my CVS copy so that it erases stuff that is gone from the CVS server? (like GPE-Batmon?) |
| 17:41:23 | pb_ | mccarthy: just rm -r GPE-Batmon |
| 17:45:51 | mccarthy | pb cmarqu: keyctl and ipaq-sleep are now added to gpe's CVS |
| 17:45:54 | mccarthy | enjoy! |
| 17:46:00 | mccarthy | I gotta get ready for my trip |
| 17:46:33 | mccarthy | pb_: I will likely mess with *both* gpe-calendar and gpe-todo while I am gone... |
| 17:46:49 | pb_ | ok |
| 17:47:04 | mccarthy | later all, have a nice next week... |
| 17:47:07 | pb_ | how long are you away for? |
| 17:47:19 | mccarthy | if dc stops by tell him to go to SYdney and look me up at the Novatel on Darling... |
| 17:47:27 | mccarthy | be back 2nd monday |
| 17:47:28 | pb_ | heh :-) ok |
| 17:47:46 | pb_ | enjoy Australia |
| 17:48:17 | mccarthy | thanks much.... I will mostly be at a conference on particle handling and processing (whee!) |
| 17:48:39 | mccarthy | ok, now really bye |
| 18:06:04 | pb_ | hmm |
| 18:06:19 | cmarqu | yawns |
| 18:06:30 | cmarqu | Bedtime. Night guys. |
| 18:06:31 | pb_ | one of the reasons esd doesn't work so well on the ipaq seems to be that /dev/random has no entropy, and the esd client stalls forever trying to generate a secret number. |
| 18:06:39 | pb_ | night cmarqu |
| 18:32:15 | mallum | hey |
| 18:46:29 | pb_ | hey mallum |
| 18:47:05 | pb_ | been trying to debug esd problems... :-} |
| 18:56:02 | mallum | pb_: with the server ? |
| 18:56:31 | pb_ | both ends |
| 18:58:27 | pb_ | see the message I just sent to the familiar list |
| 18:58:35 | pb_ | (assuming the server delivers it this side of Christmas :-) |
| 18:58:40 | mallum | heh :) |
| 18:58:47 | mallum | did the affix stuff all go ok ? |
| 18:59:15 | pb_ | didn't try it yet, lemme go track down my dtl1 card and I'll give it a go. |
| 19:00:39 | mallum | did you phone expansys too ? |
| 19:00:56 | pb_ | didn't have time before they closed, I might try tomorrow. |
| 19:01:30 | pb_ | wow, the list server clearly likes me, I just got my own mail back in under 5 minutes! |
| 19:06:01 | pb_ | well, affix seems to work with the dtl1 too, that's nice. |
| 19:06:42 | mallum | cool :) |
| 19:07:07 | mallum | can you start esd in init.d so it can open /dev/sound ? |
| 19:07:25 | pb_ | I could, but I'd rather run esd as the user rather than root. |
| 19:07:52 | pb_ | esd's codebase is about as untrustworthy as they come. :-} |
| 19:07:58 | mallum | will it not start as root and then setuid to something else ? |
| 19:08:24 | pb_ | You must have forgotten which program we're talking about. |
| 19:08:39 | pb_ | esd is far too dumb to do anything like drop privileges. |
| 19:10:28 | mallum | ah, you'd think it would considering most distro's have /dev/dsp root only by defualt |
| 19:11:55 | pb_ | mmm. |
| 19:13:41 | mallum | Why is bash's history so stupid ? |
| 19:14:00 | pb_ | what in particular? |
| 19:15:26 | pb_ | hmm, afe doesn't fit on the ipaq screen all that well. |
| 19:15:27 | mallum | well Im thinking 'can I make it more intelligent', ie dont remember simple commands ( like ls ) ... place a higher priority on remembering commands I use alot ( but am too lazy to type ) such as Xnest ... etc |
| 19:15:44 | pb_ | ah |
| 19:15:55 | pb_ | well, you can always do "!Xnest" and stuff like that. |
| 19:15:56 | mallum | pb_: really I thought it was designed for ipaq |
| 19:16:06 | pb_ | hmm |
| 19:16:28 | pb_ | if so, the designers did a lousy job :-) |
| 19:16:39 | mallum | pb_: Im used to a c-r , then I type xnest ( its all the params I hate typing ). but more than often its forgotten it |
| 19:16:49 | pb_ | ah |
| 19:16:59 | mallum | pb_: I guess I could just increase its size |
| 19:17:16 | pb_ | yeah, I have the bash history depth set to some huge value. |
| 19:19:03 | pb_ | regrettably I don't think I have the technology to make an scap of AFE in use. |
| 19:19:10 | mallum | I'll increase mine ( just defualt ) at the moment and if it still annoys me , I'll check the source |
| 19:19:20 | mallum | pb_: no net connection on ipaq ? |
| 19:19:40 | pb_ | only one cf slot, and it's in use for the bt card. |
| 19:20:09 | pb_ | if I'd thought to bring the bluetooth NAP back from the office i might have been able to get in that way, but I didn't. |
| 19:20:13 | mallum | usbnet ? |
| 19:20:19 | pb_ | ugh |
| 19:20:31 | pb_ | could try that I guess, is it easy to set up? |
| 19:20:39 | mallum | I really like that - especially with a modified cable so it charges at the same time |
| 19:21:00 | pb_ | everybody else (well, dc and moray) seems to have trouble with it. |
| 19:21:16 | mallum | pb_: basically add a usbf entry to you ipaqs /etc/network/interfaces |
| 19:21:27 | mallum | interface usbf that is |
| 19:21:41 | pb_ | ah, my usb cradle is at the office too, darn. |
| 19:22:05 | pb_ | I ought to buy a separate usb sync/charge cable. |
| 19:22:12 | mallum | I then add this ... |
| 19:22:19 | mallum | iface usb0 inet static |
| 19:22:19 | mallum | address 1.1.1.2 |
| 19:22:19 | mallum | netmask 255.255.255.0 |
| 19:22:19 | mallum | network 1.1.1.0 |
| 19:22:19 | mallum | broadcast 1.1.1.255 |
| 19:22:21 | mallum | up iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE -s 1.1.1.1/32 |
| 19:22:23 | mallum | up iptables -I FORWARD -s 1.1.1.1/32 -j ACCEPT |
| 19:22:25 | mallum | up iptables -I FORWARD -d 1.1.1.1/32 -j ACCEPT |
| 19:22:27 | mallum | up echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward |
| 19:22:29 | mallum | to my host interfaces |
| 19:23:11 | mallum | plug cable into ipaq, ( 1st) plug cable into pc and thats it ( assuming you have hotplug installed and usb ethernet module installed on host too ) |
| 19:24:38 | pb_ | hmm, affix doesn't seem to be able to enumerate the services on my phone any more, that's not a very good sign. |
| 19:25:23 | pb_ | ah, I just crashed afe altogether. |
| 19:25:29 | mallum | oh dera ... |
| 19:28:13 | pb_ | oh dear, have you seen the latest post on the gpe list? |
| 19:31:40 | lale | pb_: can you summarize? my mail system has gone crazy and now I'm curious! |
| 19:31:59 | pb_ | crosspost from the opie list saying "hey, wouldn't it be nice if gpe and opie had the same database format" |
| 19:32:21 | pb_ | lale: btw, you can see the list on the web: http://handhelds.org/pipermail/gpe/Week-of-Mon-20020715/thread.html |
| 19:32:44 | lale | pb_: tnx |
| 19:33:09 | lale | pb_: I don't see it as a bad idea. Don't know anything about opie's DB format |
| 19:34:23 | pb_ | lale: no, on the contrary, it's a good idea; unfortunately the opie people have already inspected the GPE database format and apparently found it wanting. |
| 19:35:51 | lale | pb_: oh. Thanks for the explanation |
| 19:38:05 | mallum | is still wary of sqllite :{ |
| 19:38:50 | pb_ | mallum: why? |
| 19:39:01 | pb_ | mallum: SQL in general, you mean? |
| 19:39:41 | mallum | pb_: well sqllite on the ipaq |
| 19:40:04 | mallum | pb_: have you played with it with alot of records ? |
| 19:40:18 | pb_ | mallum: no |
| 19:40:25 | pb_ | mallum: are you worried about space efficiency? |
| 19:41:28 | mallum | pb_: Im a little worried about how it will perform will a lot of records, and also how stable / liable to corrupt it will be - especially with jffs2 not being rock solid |
| 19:41:56 | mallum | pb_: also how its gonna be synced |
| 19:42:16 | pb_ | yeah, I'm a little bit concerned about performance too, but I think the only way to find out is to try it. :-} |
| 19:42:57 | mallum | yeah sure, it not like I have incredably strong feelings about it - I definetly do see its advantages too |
| 19:43:18 | pb_ | as to the JFFS2 issue, if the filesystem is corrupting data then any kind of database is gonna have trouble. Fortunately I haven't heard any reports of jffs actually doing that, it seems more prone to just leak free space. |
| 19:43:29 | mallum | yep |
| 19:43:39 | mallum | ok |
| 19:43:43 | pb_ | and well, hey, we have the source to sqlite, we can fix it when it doesn't work :-/ |
| 19:43:48 | mallum | :) |
| 19:44:18 | mallum | there is a plan to have a lib for 'common' pim type access routines right ? |
| 19:44:58 | pb_ | right, this is the "OPDS" library DaveH is working on. |
| 19:45:09 | pb_ | I'm not sure exactly what its features are going to be. |
| 19:46:13 | mallum | Not knowing how practical it is, but if apps stick to that and sqllite causes problems, we could just switch the backend of that out ? |
| 19:46:28 | pb_ | very true. |
| 19:46:46 | pb_ | I think the amount of code that's genuinely sqlite-specific (as opposed to generic-ish sql) is going to be quite small. |
| 19:47:43 | mallum | did you get a chance to try the new matchbox bTW ? |
| 19:50:05 | pb_ | yeah, I've been running it all day :-) |
| 19:50:09 | mallum | cool |
| 19:50:23 | pb_ | seems pretty good. |
| 19:50:31 | mallum | I fixed the menu remove not being populated on HUP in cvs |
| 19:50:44 | mallum | cool |
| 19:50:52 | mallum | did the popup 'feel' better ? |
| 19:51:13 | pb_ | much better, yeah. |
| 19:51:19 | mallum | cool :) |
| 19:51:28 | mallum | I guess thats the only real noticeable change |
| 19:51:37 | pb_ | btw, in the miniapm "bubble", the title just says "Battery Monito", ie its missing the last letter. |
| 19:51:53 | mallum | yeah I have to make the output a char wider for that to fix |
| 19:52:06 | mallum | or change the log so the window width is a wide as the title |
| 19:52:34 | mallum | logic |
| 19:52:49 | pb_ | right |
| 19:52:54 | mallum | Im gonna work on mbmenu next ... move the 'lib' code form the dock menu into that |
| 19:53:00 | pb_ | yeah, I see it's two chars too short for the cpu monitor one. |
| 19:53:07 | pb_ | cool. |
| 19:53:13 | mallum | probably move it into the matchbox tarball |
| 19:53:59 | mallum | and add keyboard shortcuts, backgrounds ( compile time png support probably ), better scrolling etc ... |
| 19:54:07 | mallum | gonna take a break brb .... |
| 21:04:50 | mallum | pb_: do you have the gtk2 source at hand ? |
| 21:07:16 | pb_ | always |
| 21:09:58 | mallum | could you just grep it for xpointermapping ? |
| 21:10:12 | mallum | (best pass -i to grep) |
| 21:10:40 | pb_ | no matches |
| 21:11:08 | mallum | what about just 'mapping' |
| 21:11:24 | mallum | xmonobut does not seem to work with gtk2 |
| 21:11:41 | mallum | I thought it was gnome2, but I think its gtk2 |
| 21:12:34 | pb_ | nope, nothing for "mapping" either (except a few variable names and comments) |
| 21:13:31 | mallum | hmm, I wonder how it blocks it then ... I will investigate tommorow - thanks for checking for me :) |
| 21:13:40 | pb_ | sure, no problem |
| 21:18:45 | pb_ | g'night |