| 10:52:24 | mallum | http://www.linuxrising.com/files/gtk-default-gorilla-side-by-side.png |
| 12:06:47 | pb_ | hey |
| 12:10:10 | mallum | pb !!!! |
| 12:10:27 | mallum | how are you sir ? |
| 12:41:30 | mallum | pb_: are you there ? |
| 12:44:56 | pb_ | mallum: yah |
| 12:45:02 | pb_ | I'm back in England now. |
| 12:45:50 | mallum | pb_: woohoo ! welcome back :)) |
| 12:45:58 | pb_ | :-) |
| 12:45:59 | mallum | pb_: did you have a nice time ? |
| 12:46:05 | pb_ | very good, yes. |
| 12:46:17 | mallum | excellent |
| 12:46:24 | mallum | OLS and debian conference ? |
| 12:46:35 | pb_ | yup. |
| 12:47:04 | pb_ | anything exciting happened here while I was away? |
| 12:47:16 | mallum | I am nearly a debian developer now ... just my T&S questions to answer |
| 12:47:32 | pb_ | yay! |
| 12:47:32 | mallum | matchbox 0.3 is just about there |
| 12:47:40 | pb_ | yay again. |
| 12:47:44 | mallum | I have the AM from hell though :( |
| 12:47:54 | pb_ | oh dear |
| 12:47:59 | pb_ | who is it? |
| 12:48:16 | mallum | Joerg Jaspert |
| 12:48:30 | pb_ | hmm, I've never even heard of him. |
| 12:48:57 | mallum | he was a bit of an arse at first, so I had a moan at him and he's been a bit nicer |
| 12:49:04 | pb_ | heh |
| 12:49:20 | mallum | I have ~40 T&S questions to answer |
| 12:49:35 | mallum | I had to make a package without dh_ scripts ( done that ) |
| 12:49:46 | mallum | and answered approx 40 p&p questions |
| 12:49:58 | pb_ | wow, I didn't realise the NM process was so arduous. |
| 12:50:09 | mallum | pb_: nor did I :( |
| 12:50:17 | mallum | pb_: did you not have to do it ? |
| 12:50:24 | pb_ | back when I was becoming a maintainer, the T&S bit was basically just answering yes to "do you think you know how to build packages?" |
| 12:50:55 | pb_ | but I know the whole new-maintainer thing has been revised since then. |
| 12:51:17 | mallum | yeah, I was kind of hopeing it was just the above |
| 12:51:38 | mallum | considering I just want to get up to date matchbox packages into debian |
| 12:52:14 | pb_ | yeah, it does seem a bit over the top. |
| 12:52:18 | pb_ | oh well. :-( |
| 12:52:27 | mallum | and maybe help try and push debian to be viable on smaller platforms |
| 12:52:33 | mallum | pb_: yeah Im learning alot |
| 12:52:48 | mallum | pb_: oh I got some work starting next week too, which is good |
| 12:53:52 | pb_ | ah, cool, what sort of thing? |
| 12:54:21 | mallum | pb_: php evil for crap web/sms co paying crap rates :( |
| 12:54:34 | mallum | pb_: but I need some money and getting out of the house will be good |
| 12:54:48 | mallum | pb_: I do hate php though .... maybe I can move them to Perl / Python |
| 12:54:53 | pb_ | heh |
| 12:55:35 | mallum | what cool stuff did you see in Canada ? |
| 12:56:18 | mallum | realises he'll now have money to get bluetooth / ps2 linux :)) |
| 12:57:58 | pb_ | hmm, there wasn't all that much cool stuff to actually see to be honest. AMD had some Hammer machines, I guess that was the OLS highlight in terms of hardware. |
| 12:59:01 | mallum | pb_: any cool talks ? |
| 12:59:03 | pb_ | The G8 summit didn't yield much of the promised civil unrest either :-) |
| 13:00:06 | pb_ | yeah, some of the talks were quite interesting. I'll have to look back over the schedule to remind myself what there was. Couple of GNOME ones on stuff that might be useful for GPE, like gconf and gnome-print. |
| 13:00:39 | mallum | cool, you went to the gconf one |
| 13:00:44 | pb_ | yup. |
| 13:00:53 | mallum | did he talk about 'fam' and stuff ? |
| 13:01:05 | pb_ | hmm, not that I remember, what's fam? |
| 13:01:35 | mallum | http://oss.sgi.com/projects/fam/index.html |
| 13:02:15 | pb_ | looks like you can download the OLS proceedings now: # |
| 13:02:15 | pb_ | http://www.linux.org.uk/~ajh/ols2002_proceedings.pdf.gz |
| 13:02:44 | pb_ | oh right, no, he didn't talk about fam. |
| 13:02:53 | pb_ | at the moment, gconf uses its own back-end server that handles notifications. |
| 13:03:45 | pb_ | I think that actual implementation is probably a bit heavy for GPE purposes, though the general idea - and probably the ABI - is good. |
| 13:04:54 | pb_ | in particular, gconf kind of assumes that you are in a networked environment with loads of machines sharing a common home directory over NFS or whatever. You run one server per home directory, on an arbitrary machine, and all the others connect to it over the network to do updates, queries and get notifications. |
| 13:06:26 | mallum | cool |
| 13:06:42 | mallum | I think XSettings would be nice ( and lightweight ) for gpe |
| 13:06:54 | pb_ | yup |
| 13:07:08 | mallum | I made a matchbox logo - but nobody likes it; |
| 13:07:10 | mallum | http://www.handhelds.org/~mallum/logo2.png |
| 13:07:42 | pb_ | Joey Hess did a talk on debconf (at DebConf), and I did start to think briefly about using that as a repository for user settings. But I've rather gone off that idea again now. |
| 13:08:07 | pb_ | hmm |
| 13:08:22 | pb_ | the logo is quite groovy in concept, but I think the text is a bit ugly |
| 13:09:42 | mallum | ;) |
| 13:09:52 | mallum | using debconf as a repository ? |
| 13:10:21 | pb_ | yeah |
| 13:10:34 | pb_ | have you ever looked at debconf at all? |
| 13:10:54 | mallum | only breifly |
| 13:11:28 | mallum | I really dont like the debian menu system |
| 13:12:07 | pb_ | which menu system is that? |
| 13:12:55 | mallum | the /usr/lib/menu entries |
| 13:13:23 | pb_ | hmm, what don't you like about it? |
| 13:13:39 | pb_ | the default implementation of stuff like update-menus is pretty ghastly, but I think the general idea is okay. |
| 13:13:55 | mallum | I dont like the format of the files |
| 13:14:28 | mallum | I dont like the way you dont seem to be able to define icons for actual sections, only entries |
| 13:14:45 | mallum | BTW, do you have that bluetooth phone link again ? |
| 13:14:57 | pb_ | oh, yeah, I see. |
| 13:15:28 | pb_ | umm, the Nokia 6310 you mean? |
| 13:17:02 | mallum | yeah yeah :)) |
| 13:17:42 | pb_ | try here: http://www.nokia.com/phones/6310/index.html |
| 13:18:06 | pb_ | I think there are a few other bluetooth phones now, you can probably get a list at blueunplugged.com or somewhere like that. |
| 13:18:56 | mallum | pb_: did you not send me a link to a shopping site with a load of bluetooth stuff ? |
| 13:19:01 | mallum | pb_: maybe it wasn't you ... |
| 13:19:30 | pb_ | mallum: this one? http://www.blueunplugged.com/main.asp?option=productrange&prodID=127 |
| 13:20:04 | pb_ | mallum: or it might have been expansys, they sell bluetooth stuff as well. |
| 13:20:55 | pb_ | mallum: http://www.expansys.com/d_bluetooth.asp |
| 13:22:22 | mallum | pb_: carphone whorehouse have it for 99 quid |
| 13:22:31 | pb_ | wow |
| 13:22:35 | mallum | pb_: I wonder if I can upgrade my phone to it for less |
| 13:23:11 | mallum | pb_: my friend had one ( via work ), he didn't even know what bluetooth was - I nearly got him to swap it for my s25 as he said it 'was too big' |
| 13:23:18 | mallum | the nbokia that is |
| 13:23:20 | pb_ | :-) |
| 13:25:11 | mallum | hmm, bluetooth cards still look pretty expensive though :( |
| 13:25:22 | pb_ | about 80 quid I think |
| 13:25:53 | pb_ | ah, I see, the #99 thing is only if you take out a new contract. :-| |
| 13:26:12 | pb_ | carphone warehouse want 279.99 for a SIM-free handset. |
| 13:26:24 | mallum | arg, I have cellnet already I wonder if they'll let me upgarde |
| 13:26:33 | mallum | hmm, will pop down to one tommorow me thinks |
| 13:26:52 | pb_ | certainly worth a try. |
| 13:27:05 | mallum | its says they have gprs too :) |
| 13:27:30 | pb_ | yeah, gprs would be cool, though it's still pretty expensive. |
| 13:27:42 | mallum | :( |
| 13:29:09 | pb_ | see, e.g. http://www.orange.co.uk/talkplans/gprs/costs.html |
| 13:30:35 | mallum | hmm, see what you mean |
| 13:30:53 | mallum | probably cheaper to host a box on massive pipe |
| 13:31:07 | mallum | in terms of data transfer |
| 13:31:56 | pb_ | yeah. :-| |
| 13:32:29 | pb_ | I guess GPRS costs will probably come down eventually. At least, they pretty much have to if the telcos are going to attract more customers. |
| 13:32:52 | mallum | hmm, looks like O2 dont even offer it yet. Im sure they are marketing that xda thing as able to use gprs though |
| 13:33:01 | pb_ | hmph |
| 13:36:35 | mallum | After 0.3 is done Im gonna give matchbox a rest for a bit |
| 13:36:51 | pb_ | righto, any other particular project you plan to turn your energies to? |
| 13:37:03 | mallum | Im gonna do a little work on xkbd and try and sort out some sort of XSetting implementations |
| 13:37:12 | mallum | and hopefully help out on some gpe apps |
| 13:37:40 | mallum | also if Im working my code output will lessen |
| 13:37:50 | mallum | till I get bored at work and start covert coding |
| 13:39:29 | pb_ | okay, cool. |
| 13:40:12 | pb_ | mallum: does the X server expose any kind of interface that lets you discover what kind of pointing device is attached? |
| 13:40:27 | pb_ | mallum: (see the message I just sent to gpe@handhelds.org) |
| 13:47:49 | mallum | pb_: hmm, I dont think the X server does ( not tinyX anyway ) |
| 13:47:58 | pb_ | :-( |
| 13:48:10 | mallum | pb_: I guess you could grep /proc/interupts to looks for a touchscreen |
| 13:48:15 | pb_ | eww |
| 13:48:19 | mallum | pb_: or see it /dev/ts existed |
| 13:48:30 | pb_ | well, that breaks network transparency |
| 13:48:40 | mallum | yeah good point |
| 13:49:05 | mallum | shall I shoot a mail at the xpert list ? |
| 13:49:10 | pb_ | yeah, good plan. |
| 13:49:23 | mallum | ok will do |
| 13:49:27 | pb_ | thanks |
| 13:50:06 | dc_ | morning |
| 13:50:16 | pb_ | btw, on other X trivia, I noticed just before I went away that you have to call gdk_window_set_icon() before mapping the window, otherwise matchbox (at least) doesn't notice it, is that expected? |
| 13:50:19 | pb_ | yo dc_ |
| 13:50:24 | dc_ | pb_: !! |
| 13:50:37 | pb_ | dc_: what's the news? |
| 13:50:45 | dc_ | pb_: gpe-media2 ;D |
| 13:51:02 | dc_ | pb_: I've moved the gpe-nmf ui to famlayer |
| 13:51:07 | dc_ | fmaplayer |
| 13:51:12 | pb_ | dc_: cool, I was just reading your mail on the gpe list |
| 13:51:17 | pb_ | dc_: what's the current status with that? |
| 13:51:19 | dc_ | pb_: it's quite cool, I've also got ID3 tag reading working :D |
| 13:51:20 | mallum | pb_: yes you will need to set it before mapping |
| 13:51:29 | pb_ | mallum: okay, fair enough |
| 13:51:43 | mallum | pb_: though its possible matchbox should maybe detect a change |
| 13:51:55 | pb_ | mallum: it's not a big deal, just means an explicit gtk_widget_realize() call for the window. |
| 13:52:02 | dc_ | pb_: well. I'm having some troubles with multiple playbacks in one session, since famplayer makes its own gtk loop |
| 13:52:10 | mallum | pb_: I'll look inot it |
| 13:52:18 | pb_ | dc_: I don't think famplayer should be doing that |
| 13:52:26 | mallum | pb_: I shouldn't imaging it would be that hard to fix |
| 13:52:48 | dc_ | well |
| 13:52:51 | dc_ | pb_: either do I |
| 13:52:53 | pb_ | dc_: all the UI should be concentrated in one place, we absolutely mustn't have competing gtk event loops going on. |
| 13:52:56 | dc_ | pb_: but it needs to |
| 13:53:02 | pb_ | dc_: hmm |
| 13:53:04 | pb_ | dc_: why? |
| 13:53:11 | dc_ | pb_: to render the video |
| 13:54:10 | pb_ | ah |
| 13:54:20 | dc_ | indeed. |
| 13:54:44 | dc_ | it seems to segfault when the new stream (audio/video) tried to jump into the loop. |
| 13:54:52 | dc_ | pb_: so I'm rearranging all the code. |
| 13:54:53 | mallum | dc_: I know you wont like this ... but http://www.handhelds.org/~mallum/logo2.png TADA ! |
| 13:55:01 | pb_ | I'll have to look at the famplayer code myself. |
| 13:55:05 | dc_ | pb_: an rewriting the function names so there's no evil camel back stuff |
| 13:55:12 | pb_ | dc_: okay, cool |
| 13:55:25 | mallum | pb_, dc_: also theres talk of integrating svg into gtk :)) |
| 13:55:28 | pb_ | dc_: does famplayer implement any controls with Gtk, or is it just using a window to draw into? |
| 13:55:30 | mallum | see http://www.linuxrising.com/files/gtk-default-gorilla-side-by-side.png |
| 13:55:53 | dc_ | mallum: ta......da....r.r.r |
| 13:56:02 | dc_ | mallum: :) |
| 13:56:15 | dc_ | mallum: svg? |
| 13:56:31 | dc_ | pb_: it had play and pause. |
| 13:56:44 | dc_ | pb_: how we've got all the gpe-nfm stuff in it though |
| 13:56:56 | dc_ | mallum: omfg. |
| 13:56:58 | pb_ | mallum: heh |
| 13:57:09 | dc_ | mallum: any nice theme package? |
| 13:57:10 | mallum | dc_: scalable vector graphics |
| 13:57:13 | dc_ | mallum: I want that :) |
| 13:57:16 | pb_ | dc_: okay, so it's output-only now? |
| 13:57:25 | mallum | dc_: sorta like flash but xml |
| 13:57:36 | dc_ | mallum: i see. |
| 13:57:39 | dc_ | mallum: cool :) |
| 13:57:52 | dc_ | pb_: sorry explain? |
| 13:57:54 | mallum | dc_: do you have nautilus ? |
| 13:57:59 | dc_ | mallum: yeah |
| 13:58:04 | dc_ | mallum: gedit is my god |
| 13:58:15 | pb_ | dc_: well, what you really want is for famplayer to provide a function that just renders a single frame of video into a window. |
| 13:58:33 | dc_ | pb_: hmm |
| 13:58:36 | pb_ | dc_: then you can do the event loop in your UI code, and just call famplayer's rendering stuff at the appropriate junctures. |
| 13:58:46 | dc_ | pb_: well I've made the video open up in a seperate window.. |
| 13:58:55 | dc_ | pb_: oh, that's the idea |
| 13:59:06 | pb_ | okay, cool |
| 13:59:12 | dc_ | pb_: it kind of does that now |
| 13:59:47 | pb_ | dc_: I'm guessing that you could probably take the bit of code that famplayer calls "THE LOOP", put it in a new function, and replace the GTK_ITERATION_DO with "return". |
| 13:59:50 | dc_ | pb_: it basicly has a loop that renders any audio and video needed and goes a gtk iteration |
| 14:00:19 | dc_ | s/goes/does |
| 14:00:28 | pb_ | dc_: right |
| 14:01:13 | pb_ | is Nils back in the land of the living now? I see he posted to the list a bit. |
| 14:01:22 | dc_ | :) |
| 14:01:24 | dc_ | it seems |
| 14:01:45 | dc_ | pb_: oh, do you know if mibus has done any work on gpe-media/famplayer yet>? |
| 14:01:53 | dc_ | pb_: the famplayer authour said he was. |
| 14:01:59 | pb_ | dc_: no idea |
| 14:02:09 | dc_ | pb_: oh and, remind yourself to kick me next tiem we meet. |
| 14:02:15 | pb_ | dc_: why? |
| 14:02:20 | dc_ | pb_: I'm using gtk_clist_set_data :/ |
| 14:02:24 | dc_ | runs |
| 14:02:30 | pb_ | ewww |
| 14:02:34 | mallum | dc_: grab the scalable-gorilla-theme for nautilus to see some svg in action |
| 14:02:38 | dc_ | pb_: I had a long think about it |
| 14:02:46 | dc_ | mallum: url? |
| 14:02:49 | mallum | pb_: I told dc_ to learn linked lists |
| 14:02:58 | mallum | hides |
| 14:02:59 | pb_ | mallum: me too :-| |
| 14:03:06 | dc_ | pb_: and why should we have to store the data in memory twice? |
| 14:03:07 | dc_ | ... |
| 14:03:12 | dc_ | heh |
| 14:03:16 | pb_ | mallum: not that he really needs to, when he has g_slist_... at his disposal :-) |
| 14:03:32 | pb_ | dc_: sound engineering practice demands it. |
| 14:03:41 | mallum | dc_: http://www.lucidus.uklinux.net/index.php?count=10&themes=nautilus&sort=date&start=10 |
| 14:03:42 | dc_ | nods |
| 14:03:56 | mallum | pb_: ah, thought glib may provide one |
| 14:04:38 | pb_ | mallum: two, in fact, there's g_slist (singly linked) and g_list (doubly linked) :-) |
| 14:05:02 | mallum | pb_: matchbox uses a doubly linked circular :)) |
| 14:05:38 | pb_ | matchbox rulez |
| 14:05:58 | dc_ | pb_: so do you suggest we use a gslist to contain the list of filenames? |
| 14:06:31 | pb_ | lots of people at OLS and debconf were impressed with matchbox (and GPE in general), incidentally, which was nice. |
| 14:06:40 | pb_ | dc_: yup, something like that. |
| 14:06:52 | dc_ | pb_: hmm |
| 14:07:00 | dc_ | pb_: right.... |
| 14:07:03 | pb_ | dc_: there might be other metadata you want to store along with the filename, perhaps. |
| 14:07:38 | dc_ | pb_: what about a gslist of structs with filename, title, artist, length etc? |
| 14:07:46 | mallum | pb_: cool |
| 14:07:57 | pb_ | dc_: sounds like just the thing |
| 14:08:13 | mallum | pb_: dwmw2 apparently mentioned matchbox in his embedded linux talk and people were asking about it |
| 14:08:14 | dc_ | pb_: right, pointers to structs? |
| 14:08:33 | mallum | pb_: it wierd though, cos I seriously think its crap sometimes :( |
| 14:08:39 | dc_ | heh |
| 14:08:43 | mallum | pb_: I think too much |
| 14:08:49 | dc_ | mallum: yes! |
| 14:08:52 | dc_ | mallum: :) |
| 14:09:09 | pb_ | mallum: indeed he did, though the screenshots he showed were old and crap :-| |
| 14:09:18 | mallum | pb_: :( |
| 14:09:35 | mallum | pb_: Im gonna go to OLS or equiv next year for sure |
| 14:09:37 | pb_ | dc_: yep |
| 14:09:56 | pb_ | mallum: cool, you definitely should |
| 14:10:03 | mallum | pb_: cworth mentioned to me about maybe speaking about matchbox at next years usenix, which would be cool too |
| 14:10:19 | pb_ | mallum: or, alternatively, we could try to hold a technical conference here in the UK :-) |
| 14:10:25 | dc_ | :) |
| 14:10:28 | dc_ | likes that idea |
| 14:10:36 | pb_ | mallum: yah, that sounds like a good plan. |
| 14:10:55 | pb_ | mallum: not that I've ever been to Usenix, so I dunno really what they talk about there. |
| 14:15:22 | mallum | pb_: I think its full of old school unix granddads with cde desktops remanising about VAX's |
| 14:15:28 | mallum | pb_: jg likes it there |
| 14:15:47 | dc_ | hehe |
| 14:16:23 | pb_ | heh |
| 14:18:08 | mallum | I noticed a rare collectable post to fam list from jg today |
| 14:18:47 | mallum | I havn't seen a7r on IRC for ages and 0 posts to list from him this month |
| 14:20:51 | dc_ | nice looking svg :} |
| 14:23:09 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, a7r does seem to have vanished |
| 14:23:59 | pb_ | mallum: I haven't got to reading mail from most lists yet, though there are 8094 messages waiting in my "bulk" folder :-| |
| 14:29:37 | mallum | pb_: uh oh |
| 14:29:44 | pb_ | mallum: whazzup? |
| 14:32:21 | mallum | pb_: sorry delayed reaction to your bulk folder |
| 14:32:22 | pb_ | hey, some guy at OLS was showing off a Zaurus, they seem pretty cool. |
| 14:32:28 | pb_ | mallum: ah |
| 14:32:31 | pb_ | :-) |
| 14:32:42 | mallum | pb_: yeah with qtopia removed |
| 14:32:51 | pb_ | mallum: evolution has been trying to open that folder for about the past ten minutes, sigh. |
| 14:33:41 | pb_ | mallum: yes, naturally. I dunno how easy it is to change the software on a zaurus but I don't imagine it can be that tough. |
| 14:34:07 | mallum | pb_: the only think I didn't like ( apart from qtopia ) was the zaraus felt a little flimsy |
| 14:34:08 | pb_ | Dabs are listing the SL-5500 at 445.32ukp including VAT, not bad. |
| 14:34:24 | mallum | pb_: but the built in flash slot and mmc thing is cool |
| 14:34:45 | mallum | pb_: the keyboard is meant to be usable too |
| 14:34:45 | dc_ | indeed |
| 14:34:50 | pb_ | mallum: it's certainly not as solid as the ipaq, but it didn't seem too bad. |
| 14:34:54 | dc_ | the 3800's are very cool though |
| 14:35:21 | mallum | pb_: and I guess the buttons dont suffer the hardware problems that the ipaq does, so games are a possibility |
| 14:35:24 | pb_ | mallum: and yeah, the keyboard is obviously a bit awkward but still easier than an onscreen one. |
| 14:35:35 | mallum | Im waiting for the 400mhz mutha;s :) |
| 14:35:40 | dc_ | :D |
| 14:35:45 | dc_ | xscale baby |
| 14:35:48 | pb_ | dc_: do 3800s have built in CF? |
| 14:35:56 | dc_ | pb_: sd I think |
| 14:35:58 | pb_ | dc_: yeah, I spoke to a few people about XScale |
| 14:36:02 | dc_ | lemme see |
| 14:36:11 | pb_ | dc_: nobody had anything good to say, unfortunately |
| 14:36:34 | dc_ | heh |
| 14:36:37 | dc_ | pb_: yeah SD |
| 14:36:53 | pb_ | dc_: right |
| 14:38:05 | pb_ | dc_: one of the things I liked most about the Sharp was that it had a CF slot for a network card, plus an MMC slot for storage, both internal (whereas my iPAQ with the CF jacket on is about three times the size) |
| 14:38:25 | pb_ | dc_: Having internal SD is certainly a boon, but it would be nicer still if there was CF too. |
| 14:39:10 | mallum | pb_: indeed |
| 14:39:48 | dc_ | yep |
| 14:42:03 | mallum | man, sid is coming home early and I havn't done my chores !!!!! |
| 14:42:53 | pb_ | mallum: uh oh |
| 14:44:12 | pb_ | hey, anyone know what the status is with DaveH's database uberschema? |
| 14:44:22 | pb_ | is it actually ready for the big time now? |
| 14:47:03 | dc_ | dunno.. |
| 14:47:10 | dc_ | mallum: hurry! |
| 14:47:41 | mallum | dc_: I may try 'your home early - you can do them :)' |
| 14:47:55 | mallum | dc_: but then I may get hit |
| 14:48:17 | pb_ | mallum: sounds like a pretty high-risk strategy |
| 14:49:04 | dc_ | mallum: try a bribe |
| 14:50:27 | dc_ | mallum: "once 0.3 is out I gotta take a break ;)" lies! |
| 14:50:39 | dc_ | ;D |
| 14:56:22 | pb_ | hmm, gotta go to the shops in the village, back in 15 minutes |
| 14:56:52 | mallum | village ? |
| 14:58:51 | mallum | dc_: do you live in a village too ? |
| 15:08:40 | mallum | matchbox - 'window mangement for other devices' |
| 15:11:35 | mallum | matchbox - 'Window Management not for your desktop' |
| 15:12:53 | mallum | matchbox - 'unextreme window management' |
| 15:14:52 | mallum | matchbox - 'sensible window management' |
| 15:15:11 | mallum | matchbox - 'restrained window management' |
| 15:24:31 | pb_ | is back |
| 15:24:41 | pb_ | mallum: yes, it's a bit rural round here |
| 15:26:24 | mallum | pb_: hmm, I wish I lived in a village |
| 15:26:30 | mallum | pb_: sick of london |
| 15:26:47 | mallum | pb_: see my matchbox straplines above there ? |
| 15:27:07 | mallum | pb_: like any of them ? |
| 15:27:16 | pb_ | mallum: "restrained" is my favourite |
| 15:27:26 | mallum | pb_: yeah me too I think |
| 15:27:46 | mallum | my turn for shops now |
| 15:27:55 | mallum | but I gotta pop into the hood :( |
| 15:28:05 | pb_ | have fun |
| 15:42:08 | dc_ | hrm |
| 15:43:24 | pb_ | dc_: same to you |
| 15:45:24 | pb_ | dc_: it occurs to me that gpe-tetris should store its high-score table in the database |
| 15:45:42 | pb_ | dc_: that way, we can sync it with some global repository so that all users can share a highscore table :-) |
| 15:46:20 | pb_ | dc_: right now the program seems to crash at the end of a game, which is definitely not the desired behaviour. |
| 15:46:54 | dc_ | pb_: yeah, db is a cool idea. |
| 15:46:59 | dc_ | pb_: crashes.. |
| 15:47:16 | pb_ | well, it did last time I tried on my ipaq |
| 15:47:31 | pb_ | lemme boot up the CATS and try it there, see if I can get some useful debugging information |
| 15:48:21 | dc_ | :) |
| 15:48:28 | pb_ | dc_: did you see mallum's suggested matchbox straplines? |
| 15:48:31 | dc_ | pb_: thanks |
| 15:48:33 | dc_ | pb_: no? |
| 15:49:00 | pb_ | dc_: he seems to feel it should have some kind of slogan; here's what he came up with. |
| 15:49:01 | pb_ | <mallum> matchbox - 'window mangement for other devices' |
| 15:49:01 | pb_ | <mallum> matchbox - 'Window Management not for your desktop' |
| 15:49:01 | pb_ | <mallum> matchbox - 'unextreme window management' |
| 15:49:01 | pb_ | <mallum> matchbox - 'sensible window management' |
| 15:49:01 | pb_ | <mallum> matchbox - 'restrained window management' |
| 15:49:07 | pb_ | <mallum> pb_: like any of them ? |
| 15:49:07 | pb_ | <pb_> mallum: "restrained" is my favourite |
| 15:49:07 | pb_ | <mallum> pb_: yeah me too I think |
| 15:49:30 | dc_ | pb_: yep |
| 15:49:33 | dc_ | pb_: restrained |
| 15:49:42 | dc_ | :) |
| 15:49:44 | dc_ | souns cool |
| 15:49:55 | pb_ | well, sounds like we have consensus on that. |
| 15:49:55 | dc_ | otherwise sensible |
| 15:50:07 | dc_ | yeah. that's cute :) |
| 15:51:20 | pb_ | ah, just realised I can run gpe-tetris on my desktop, no need to go to the CATS at all. |
| 15:51:37 | pb_ | duh |
| 15:52:16 | dc_ | hah |
| 15:52:58 | pb_ | well, hmm, I get a load of Gtk errors, but no actual crash that time |
| 15:53:04 | pb_ | Gtk-CRITICAL **: file gtkwidget.c: line 3310 (gtk_widget_set_sensitive): assertion `widget != NULL' failed. |
| 15:53:04 | pb_ | Gtk-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkButton' to `GtkCheckMenuItem' |
| 15:53:04 | pb_ | Gtk-CRITICAL **: file gtkcheckmenuitem.c: line 144 (gtk_check_menu_item_set_active): assertion `GTK_IS_CHECK_MENU_ITEM (check_menu_item)' failed. |
| 15:54:00 | pb_ | Those kinds of errors do seem to be associated with intermittent crashes a lot of the time. |
| 15:54:14 | rl | hello? |
| 15:54:26 | dc_ | rl: hi |
| 15:54:30 | rl | any Linux users here? |
| 15:54:37 | dc_ | heh |
| 15:54:50 | dc_ | loves it when people ask questions like that :] |
| 15:55:01 | dc_ | rl: yes, yes. |
| 15:55:02 | rl | I need Help with Palm and GNOME |
| 15:55:10 | dc_ | rl: heh |
| 15:55:20 | rl | I want to sync with Ximian Evolution |
| 15:55:29 | pb_ | rl: sounds like you want #gnome |
| 15:55:31 | rl | Which Conduits I have to use? |
| 15:55:33 | dc_ | rl: I think you might be better off at #gnome :) |
| 15:55:36 | dc_ | pb_: :) |
| 15:55:52 | dc_ | rl: this isn't really the place. |
| 15:55:55 | rl | I was there.. no ones responding |
| 15:56:05 | dc_ | heh |
| 15:56:26 | rl | Don't you know Evolution? |
| 15:56:52 | pb_ | Not in that sense. |
| 15:57:03 | rl | ok ..sorry :) |
| 15:57:09 | rl | thank you |
| 15:57:23 | pb_ | Maybe there's some Ximian channel you could try, I dunno. |
| 15:57:56 | rl | yes.. but there's only 1 user and he don't know about Palm |
| 15:58:04 | pb_ | ah |
| 15:58:33 | dc_ | trust ximian |
| 15:59:35 | rl | another question: which apps can I use in GPE ? |
| 15:59:52 | pb_ | I don't really understand the question. |
| 16:00:11 | rl | ..in GNU Palmtop Environment |
| 16:00:11 | pb_ | Do you mean, which GPE apps work well enough to be useful? |
| 16:00:25 | rl | It is compatible to PalmOS apps? |
| 16:00:31 | rl | Is it.. |
| 16:00:38 | pb_ | Not at present. |
| 16:00:40 | dc_ | rl: gpe.handhelds.org |
| 16:00:55 | rl | yes i am reading it.. |
| 16:00:59 | dc_ | good |
| 16:01:03 | rl | sounds interesting... |
| 16:01:30 | dc_ | it's all for familiar on the iPAQ |
| 16:01:31 | pb_ | rl: I daresay you will be able to exchange data with Palm at some point, once we have syncing working, but there is no compatibility beyond that. |
| 16:01:36 | dc_ | but also deskrop |
| 16:01:38 | dc_ | desktop |
| 16:02:04 | rl | works only on Pocket PC? |
| 16:02:06 | dc_ | pb_: storm nerly had that :] |
| 16:02:10 | dc_ | rl: no. |
| 16:02:17 | dc_ | rl: linxu on the iPAQ |
| 16:02:20 | dc_ | linux |
| 16:02:25 | rl | ahh.. ok |
| 16:02:38 | rl | looks great |
| 16:02:42 | dc_ | :) |
| 16:02:55 | pb_ | dc_: ha |
| 16:03:24 | rl | are you member's of GNU ? |
| 16:04:10 | rl | (sorry for my bad english) |
| 16:04:12 | pb_ | rl: not actually; we should fix the webpage to take the "GNU" out of the name. |
| 16:04:21 | dc_ | pb_: never :} |
| 16:04:28 | dc_ | pb_: hehe. |
| 16:04:34 | dc_ | pb_: could be become member then? |
| 16:05:22 | dc_ | pb_: could we become members then? |
| 16:05:28 | pb_ | dc_: well, we talked about this before (mostly cmarqu, moray and I) and it didn't seem like it would be feasible. But I think that conclusion was based on opinion rather than fact, so it might bear some further investigation. |
| 16:05:45 | dc_ | pb_: oh, right. |
| 16:06:05 | pb_ | dc_: the main stumbling block would seem to be that copyright for the code in GNU projects is usually held by the FSF. |
| 16:06:33 | pb_ | dc_: if that's a requirement, it would pretty much rule it out for us; however, I'm not sure whether this is actually the case. |
| 16:06:45 | rl | ok guys.. i have to go.. see ya :) |
| 16:06:48 | pb_ | rl: bye |
| 16:07:01 | dc_ | rl: bye |
| 16:07:17 | dc_ | pb_: ouch |
| 16:10:17 | dc_ | pb_: man don't you hate it when people name their varibles like superCoolfuntion |
| 16:10:29 | pb_ | dc_: yes, that sucks |
| 16:10:48 | dc_ | I'm having to rename all the famplayer functions etc.. |
| 16:10:50 | dc_ | :{ |
| 16:11:00 | dc_ | atleast I'll understand it by the end :] |
| 16:11:06 | pb_ | :-( |
| 16:11:12 | dc_ | and we'll have a very cool new gpe-media |
| 16:11:17 | dc_ | with mpeg support. |
| 16:11:38 | dc_ | and maby I could even nagg bbrox to help me add DivX support. |
| 16:11:41 | dc_ | that would be cool |
| 16:12:58 | pb_ | absolutely |
| 16:13:10 | dc_ | aww my rists. |
| 16:13:18 | dc_ | bbl |
| 16:13:18 | pb_ | RSI setting in? |
| 16:13:26 | dc_ | pb_: heh, I really hope not! |
| 16:13:30 | pb_ | heh |
| 16:13:33 | pb_ | later |
| 16:14:18 | dc_ | it's because I'm staying up in london, with this crapy table as a desk |
| 16:14:22 | mallum | hey |
| 16:14:46 | mallum | dc_: I went to the 'link' to look at phones |
| 16:14:58 | dc_ | mallum: and |
| 16:15:02 | mallum | restrained window manager is cool |
| 16:15:25 | mallum | I can upgrade to the 9310 for 100 hard earned bucks |
| 16:15:40 | dc_ | decides to fold out the sofa bed and use it as a chair |
| 16:15:46 | dc_ | mallum: :)) |
| 16:16:35 | mallum | 7650 looks pretty techno too |
| 16:21:52 | pb_ | dc_: ah, you're in the big city. |
| 16:22:02 | pb_ | mallum: what's a 9310? |
| 16:22:46 | pb_ | ha, Nils seems to have some fairly strong anti-tooltips leanings. |
| 16:25:55 | mallum | pb_: its that one with the big color screen and camera |
| 16:26:06 | mallum | pb_: ack thats the 7650 |
| 16:26:29 | mallum | pb_: 6310 I meant |
| 16:27:46 | pb_ | mallum: ah right |
| 16:30:17 | pb_ | mallum: just found the 7650 on the web site, it does look pretty cool. |
| 16:30:26 | dc_ | pb_: yes |
| 16:32:01 | pb_ | dc_: was it you and spung who were talking about making a program to replace unclutter, that just makes the pointer completely invisible all the time? |
| 16:32:57 | dc_ | pb_: probly :/ |
| 16:33:08 | mallum | http://www.handhelds.org/~mallum/logo3.png |
| 16:33:32 | mallum | pb_: I dont think that can be done without hacking the X server |
| 16:33:51 | dc_ | mallum: now that is a beautiful work of art! |
| 16:33:53 | dc_ | :D |
| 16:34:11 | mallum | dc_: looks better huh ? |
| 16:34:13 | pb_ | mallum: ah, that would seem to put the kibosh on the idea |
| 16:34:26 | dc_ | mallum: yep! |
| 16:34:44 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, looks very nice. |
| 16:34:49 | mallum | pb_: apps can take control of the pointer and change it |
| 16:34:53 | dc_ | hmm |
| 16:35:09 | dc_ | can we have a cool gnome style login popup soon ; |
| 16:35:10 | pb_ | mallum: your text still doesn't seem very well kerned though |
| 16:35:10 | dc_ | :) |
| 16:35:19 | dc_ | that would be cute. |
| 16:35:19 | mallum | pb_: I think unclutter does something that 'sort of' gets around this but not perfect |
| 16:35:20 | pb_ | dc_: what do you mean? |
| 16:35:25 | dc_ | maby part of gpe-dm ? |
| 16:35:40 | dc_ | pb_: like the window that shows the loading proccess of gnome |
| 16:36:05 | dc_ | mallum: fontz.de |
| 16:36:10 | mallum | pb_: I think the font is like that - http://fonts.tom7.com/fonts98.html |
| 16:36:38 | dc_ | mallum: oh, another fonts site :) |
| 16:38:10 | pb_ | dc_: oh, right, you mean the splash screen you get when you first log in? |
| 16:38:22 | pb_ | dc_: I'm not sure which gnome program does that, maybe gnome-session. |
| 16:39:11 | dc_ | pb_: right. |
| 16:39:25 | pb_ | dc_: mibus did make a splash screen which he might have intended for something like that (in gpe-bootsplash) but there is no code to go with it at the moment. |
| 16:40:13 | pb_ | dc_: I'm not sure it would really be on the screen long enough to be useful, unless we artifically slow down the login process :-) |
| 16:40:27 | pb_ | dc_: All that gpe normally needs to do is start up matchbox, the dock, and gpe-appmgr. |
| 16:41:20 | dc_ | pb_: so :} |
| 16:41:29 | dc_ | pb_: heh |
| 16:41:34 | dc_ | pb_: just a silly iea. |
| 16:43:21 | pb_ | dc_: what _would_ be nice would be something to pretty up the initial gpe-login screen a bit. |
| 16:43:36 | pb_ | dc_: right now it just has the GPE logo and a lot of blank space, which isn't all that aesthetically pleasing. |
| 16:44:50 | mallum | pb_: maybe the splash screen should be the actual kernel logo ? |
| 16:44:59 | mallum | pb_: patched to take up the full screen ? |
| 16:45:22 | pb_ | mallum: um? don't understand. |
| 16:45:29 | pb_ | mallum: what's the kernel logo? |
| 16:45:40 | mallum | pb_: the little framebuffer penguin |
| 16:46:40 | pb_ | mallum: oh, right |
| 16:47:18 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, that might work. It would probably need something else adding to it, but the penguin always makes a good starting point. |
| 16:48:01 | mallum | pb_: yeah change the penguin to a gpe logo or whatever full screen |
| 16:48:25 | pb_ | yeah |
| 16:49:23 | pb_ | one of the things we were talking about at debconf was changes to the init scripts to make graphical booting easier to implement. |
| 16:49:46 | dc_ | hmm |
| 16:49:55 | pb_ | it would be pretty cool to have a GPE logo and some kind of status area telling you what was happening. |
| 16:50:04 | dc_ | maby, the penguin, with a small gpe logo bottom left or something |
| 16:50:26 | dc_ | I tell you |
| 16:50:33 | dc_ | llp would rock :D |
| 16:50:39 | dc_ | (linux loading project) |
| 16:50:49 | dc_ | gives you graphical bootup |
| 16:51:05 | pb_ | dc_: yeah, that's the kind of thing we want |
| 16:53:48 | dc_ | goody :) |
| 16:55:41 | mallum | dc_: you have a url there sir ? |
| 16:56:23 | dc_ | mallum: for err? |
| 16:56:29 | dc_ | oh |
| 16:56:30 | dc_ | ll[ |
| 16:56:32 | dc_ | llp |
| 16:56:35 | dc_ | llp.sf.net I thnk |
| 16:56:37 | dc_ | think |
| 17:04:23 | dc_ | hmm |
| 17:04:36 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 17:04:37 | dc_ | finaly this gpe-media code is looking friendly :) |
| 17:04:40 | pb_ | yay |
| 17:04:49 | pb_ | wanna check it in so the rest of us can admire your work? |
| 17:05:27 | dc_ | well err |
| 17:05:32 | dc_ | I havn't tried to compile it yet |
| 17:05:36 | pb_ | ah :-) |
| 17:05:40 | dc_ | on the last function |
| 17:05:50 | dc_ | I've been renaming all the vars etc.. |
| 17:05:55 | pb_ | okay, perhaps checking in would be premature |
| 17:06:07 | dc_ | yepo |
| 17:17:52 | pb_ | so, more thoughts on the invisible-cursor business: it would be fairly easy for libgpewidget to override gdk_window_set_cursor or something to always set an invisible cursor when in "stylus" mode, which will probably get rid of the pointer in most of the places where it causes annoyance. |
| 17:23:57 | dc_ | hmm |
| 17:24:00 | dc_ | yes |
| 17:24:51 | dc_ | ah shit1 |
| 17:24:52 | dc_ | !! |
| 17:25:10 | dc_ | arg!!!!! |
| 17:25:14 | pb_ | what? |
| 17:25:27 | dc_ | gedit was being a bitch and just crashed |
| 17:25:32 | pb_ | :-( |
| 17:25:36 | dc_ | :{{ |
| 17:26:44 | dc_ | phew |
| 17:26:53 | dc_ | thank god I saved just a few minutes ago :/ |
| 17:27:07 | pb_ | phew |
| 17:27:22 | dc_ | I need to make an autosave plugin ofr gedit :/ |
| 17:27:50 | dc_ | heh |
| 17:27:57 | dc_ | and my wish comes true |
| 17:28:01 | dc_ | enables autosave |
| 17:28:07 | pb_ | :-) |
| 17:28:35 | dc_ | cool |
| 17:30:13 | dc_ | hye lale |
| 17:32:16 | mallum | pb_: is gpe-cal with icons in unstable ? |
| 17:32:36 | pb_ | yup |
| 17:32:52 | pb_ | familiar unstable, that is, I don't think it's in debian at all yet. |
| 17:33:03 | mallum | yeah, fam is cool |
| 17:34:08 | mallum | ewe libc upgrade :( |
| 17:34:42 | dc_ | :/ |
| 17:34:48 | dc_ | ewww |
| 17:35:08 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libc-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:09 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libdl-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:09 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libnsl-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:09 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libnss_dns-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:09 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libresolv-2.2.1.so |
| 17:35:09 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/librt-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:13 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libm-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:16 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libdb1-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:17 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libutil-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:19 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libnss_files-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:21 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/ld-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:22 | dc_ | hah |
| 17:35:23 | mallum | Removing obsolesced file /lib/libcrypt-2.2.3.so |
| 17:35:25 | mallum | uh oh .... |
| 17:35:29 | dc_ | not good |
| 17:36:03 | mallum | still going |
| 17:37:10 | pb_ | crumbs |
| 17:38:37 | dc_ | hmm |
| 17:38:43 | dc_ | I have to setup my iPAQ for the airoplane |
| 17:38:57 | pb_ | dc_: when do you leave? |
| 17:39:04 | dc_ | man I cnanot spell on irc :} |
| 17:39:12 | dc_ | pb_: tomorrow lunchtime |
| 17:39:18 | dc_ | pb_: off to tokyo first :D |
| 17:39:27 | pb_ | tokyo is cool |
| 17:39:45 | pb_ | probably quite wet at this time of year though |
| 17:39:50 | dc_ | pb_: you been there lately? |
| 17:39:56 | pb_ | dc_: last month |
| 17:40:03 | dc_ | cool |
| 17:40:17 | dc_ | I'm epecting some cool scene from ghost in the schell. |
| 17:40:20 | dc_ | shell |
| 17:40:30 | dc_ | and 1337 hovercars |
| 17:40:36 | pb_ | :-)# |
| 17:48:55 | pb_ | okay, the cursor-suppressing code is in cvs now |
| 17:48:59 | pb_ | it seems to work on my desktop |
| 17:53:31 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 17:53:37 | dctanner_ | bah |
| 17:54:07 | dc__ | bah |
| 17:54:12 | pb_ | yes |
| 17:54:27 | dc__ | my damn friend has my usb cable for my nomad 2 :{ |
| 17:54:41 | pb_ | dc__: update your libgpewidget |
| 17:54:43 | dc__ | and I have to have some sort of entertainment |
| 17:54:51 | dc__ | hmm |
| 17:54:51 | pb_ | heh |
| 17:55:01 | dc__ | maby I can become a gpe-tetris monger |
| 18:01:34 | pb_ | I just checked in some stuff to inhibit tooltips as well. |
| 18:01:53 | dc__ | food |
| 18:03:14 | pb_ | mallum: what news on your upgrade? |
| 18:10:44 | yi1 | hi.. |
| 18:10:58 | yi1 | i had some questions about gqe |
| 18:11:05 | pb_ | go ahead |
| 18:11:26 | yi1 | i looked at all the gqe ipkg... |
| 18:11:37 | yi1 | they seem to be individual programs |
| 18:11:42 | pb_ | right |
| 18:11:53 | yi1 | i was wondering if gqe has its own window manneger |
| 18:12:11 | pb_ | (it's gpe, not gqe, by the way) |
| 18:12:20 | pb_ | gpe uses the matchbox window manager. |
| 18:12:41 | yi1 | oops...typo |
| 18:12:46 | yi1 | ok i c |
| 18:13:10 | yi1 | i heard gpe isn't all the way completed yet... |
| 18:13:32 | pb_ | that's right; some of the individual programs are fairly usable, but not all of them are finished. |
| 18:13:46 | pb_ | for example, the calendar and the todo list are mostly working, but the contacts manager is not. |
| 18:14:02 | yi1 | i c...how far along are they..would you say? |
| 18:14:16 | yi1 | how many % |
| 18:14:25 | yi1 | rough estimate if you could |
| 18:14:51 | pb_ | calendar: 70% |
| 18:14:53 | pb_ | todo: 80% |
| 18:15:00 | pb_ | contacts: 40% |
| 18:15:07 | yi1 | i c... |
| 18:15:30 | pb_ | appmgr: not sure, maybe 75% |
| 18:15:33 | yi1 | also with matchbox...how do i find out the version number... |
| 18:15:36 | yi1 | ok.. |
| 18:15:53 | pb_ | don't know, mallum would have to answer that one. |
| 18:15:57 | yi1 | k |
| 18:16:16 | yi1 | mallum: hi, are you there? |
| 18:16:24 | yi1 | thanx pb_ |
| 18:18:34 | mallum | yi1: indeed sir I am now |
| 18:18:58 | yi1 | cool |
| 18:19:08 | mallum | yi1: for some reason I missed adding the version number ro the help output in old versions of matchbox :( |
| 18:19:14 | mallum | yi1: new ones do however |
| 18:19:19 | mallum | yi1: 0.3+ |
| 18:19:33 | mallum | pb_: its still working |
| 18:19:34 | yi1 | mallum: if i ipkg install matchbox |
| 18:19:49 | mallum | pb_: scared about a reboot though |
| 18:19:49 | yi1 | should overwrite the older verison with newest? |
| 18:19:59 | mallum | yi1: yes |
| 18:20:03 | pb_ | mallum: :-/ |
| 18:20:12 | mallum | yi1: you'll get 0.2 from familiar unstable |
| 18:20:22 | mallum | gotta cook dinner ... brb |
| 18:20:26 | yi1 | mallum: very!!! |
| 18:21:50 | yi1 | mallum: i did a matchbox install...it says its the up to date one... |
| 18:22:04 | yi1 | mallum: but..it says package matchbox (0.1.8) |
| 18:22:16 | pb_ | yi1: what feed are you using? |
| 18:22:45 | yi1 | i'm used wireless |
| 18:23:47 | pb_ | yi1: no, I mean, what "src" lines do you have in /etc/ipkg.conf? |
| 18:24:55 | yi1 | pb_: http://familar.handhelds.org/.... |
| 18:25:11 | pb_ | the "...." bit is important |
| 18:25:19 | yi1 | ok |
| 18:25:44 | yi1 | pb_: should i do a ipkg update? |
| 18:25:59 | pb_ | show us the full "src" line first |
| 18:26:17 | yi1 | ok |
| 18:27:06 | yi1 | http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/releases/v0.5.2/packages/arm4l |
| 18:27:23 | pb_ | That means you're using the 0.5.2 release, not the unstable feed. |
| 18:27:49 | pb_ | If you want unstable, you need to change it to |
| 18:27:54 | pb_ | http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/pack |
| 18:27:55 | pb_ | ages/armv4l |
| 18:28:01 | pb_ | and run "ipkg update" |
| 18:28:07 | yi1 | should i change to unstable |
| 18:28:12 | yi1 | what is unstable? |
| 18:28:24 | yi1 | unstable sounds bad |
| 18:28:29 | yi1 | : ) |
| 18:29:06 | pb_ | well, unstable is a feed that contains the latest development package versions. |
| 18:29:15 | yi1 | ok |
| 18:29:59 | pb_ | whether that's what you want is rather up to you; it depends on what you plan to use your ipaq for, and how bad it would be if you had to reinstall. |
| 18:32:35 | yi1 | pb_: i did what you said |
| 18:32:43 | yi1 | now should i try to install matchbox |
| 18:32:48 | pb_ | yi1: yes |
| 18:32:54 | pb_ | just do "ipkg install matchbox" |
| 18:33:07 | yi1 | ok |
| 18:34:06 | yi1 | what version is the one i just installed? |
| 18:34:17 | pb_ | didn't ipkg tell you? |
| 18:34:41 | yi1 | it was too fast |
| 18:34:50 | pb_ | well, it should have been 0.2 I think |
| 18:36:27 | yi1 | ok..it is |
| 18:36:55 | yi1 | pb_: there are applications in matchbox that have bugs |
| 18:37:02 | dc_ | wow |
| 18:37:14 | yi1 | do i need to contact someone to let them know ? |
| 18:37:15 | dc_ | the nomad II program is great. |
| 18:37:25 | dc_ | it detected my nomad first time :) |
| 18:37:40 | pb_ | yi1: write to mallum@handhelds.org I guess |
| 18:37:44 | pb_ | dc_: cool |
| 18:37:50 | yi1 | ok |
| 18:38:33 | yi1 | pb_: also, is there a way to find who is responsible for maintaining those apps.? so maybe instead of bothering mullam...just email the maintainer |
| 18:38:52 | yi1 | for example ... the calibration app is not working for me |
| 18:39:05 | yi1 | many other examples... |
| 18:39:14 | pb_ | uh, which calibration app? I didn't think matchbox had one of those. |
| 18:39:53 | yi1 | under menu->configuration->touchscreen |
| 18:40:08 | pb_ | that's not part of matchbox |
| 18:40:11 | yi1 | i know |
| 18:40:20 | yi1 | i was saying...i want to findout who made the app |
| 18:40:28 | yi1 | and email them about the problem |
| 18:40:57 | pb_ | ah, I see. I was confused when you said "there are applications in matchbox that have bugs", I guess you just meant in the matchbox menu or something? |
| 18:41:08 | yi1 | sorry..bad wording : ( |
| 18:41:21 | pb_ | I think "ipkg status" will tell you the maintainer for each package. |
| 18:41:34 | yi1 | ok |
| 18:48:02 | pb_ | good grief, since when did ipkg get this verbose? |
| 18:48:02 | pb_ | pkg_vec_fetch_by_name: name=libgpewidget0 |
| 18:48:02 | pb_ | abpkg->name=libgpewidget0 |
| 18:48:02 | pb_ | first provided_by is libgpewidget0 |
| 18:48:02 | pb_ | WE HAVE 984 AVAILABLE BLOCKS ON FS /, pkg libgpewidget0 needs 26 |
| 18:48:28 | dc_ | hah |
| 18:49:05 | pb_ | worse, "ipkg upgrade" prints the first three lines even for packages that aren't being upgraded :-( |
| 18:49:33 | dc_ | ouch |
| 18:50:50 | dc_ | now.. |
| 18:51:00 | pb_ | ... |
| 18:51:01 | dc_ | on my iPAQ |
| 18:51:03 | dc_ | I need, gtk/glib docs. |
| 18:51:12 | dc_ | copy of alice in wonderland :) |
| 18:51:34 | dc_ | have to read that |
| 18:51:44 | dc_ | and all my gpe-media source files. |
| 18:51:52 | pb_ | is it obligatory to read it on the ipaq? :-) |
| 18:52:34 | dc_ | since I don't have a paper copy, yeah :) |
| 18:52:34 | dc_ | hehe |
| 18:52:44 | pb_ | heh :-) |
| 18:53:01 | pb_ | surely there's no shortage of bookshops there in the bustling metropolis? |
| 18:53:19 | dc_ | hmm |
| 18:53:20 | dc_ | not a ba idea. |
| 18:53:21 | dc_ | well we'll see if I get time :) |
| 18:53:28 | pb_ | heh |
| 18:53:46 | pb_ | gack, gpe-tetris is getting its library link order wrong as well |
| 18:54:08 | dc_ | oh dear. |
| 18:54:28 | dc_ | thinks he'll leave the ipkg upgrade till he comes back from holiday |
| 18:54:30 | pb_ | well, it's not alone, virtually every gpe program has had that problem. |
| 18:56:03 | pb_ | even gpe-calendar was broken until about 30 minutes ago :-/ |
| 19:07:54 | pb_ | I uploaded gpe-tetris 0.5.1; it now plays properly with the cursor and tooltips stuff. |
| 19:08:54 | dc_ | right |
| 19:09:03 | dc_ | pb_: is fam unstable safe? |
| 19:09:23 | dc_ | mallum: did yours work out? |
| 19:10:39 | mallum | dc_: seems ok, havn't rebooted yet |
| 19:10:53 | mallum | dc_: Id just upgrade the packages you need to keep safe |
| 19:10:59 | lars_g | Greetings |
| 19:11:00 | mallum | Im DOSing scap |
| 19:11:05 | lars_g | How is everybody? |
| 19:11:18 | lars_g | appart from few? |
| 19:11:36 | dc_ | hey lars_g |
| 19:11:39 | dc_ | mallum: heh |
| 19:11:56 | lars_g | wouldn't it be great if familair endorsed gpe? |
| 19:11:57 | dc_ | I think I'll just stick to my current system, upgrade once I'm in oz. |
| 19:11:58 | lars_g | sigh |
| 19:12:20 | dc_ | gotta get the iBook connecting to the iPAQ there. |
| 19:12:36 | lars_g | I myself am over opie now, for the huge base of apps, but I miss a few things like my snap-n-type kbd |
| 19:13:07 | lars_g | what if I start porting stuff? |
| 19:13:23 | lars_g | I could try to port every thing I use on opie or similar apps to gpe... hmmm |
| 19:13:28 | lars_g | is the standard well defined yet? |
| 19:13:33 | lars_g | for gpe? |
| 19:13:43 | lars_g | is there a std for data storage? for sync? |
| 19:14:00 | pb_ | dc_: I upgraded to latest unstable a few minutes ago, no problems I can see. |
| 19:14:13 | pb_ | dc_: mallum must have been on a really old one before to get the libc updates and stuff. |
| 19:14:14 | dc_ | pb_: oh cool. |
| 19:14:23 | dc_ | pb_: guess I should then |
| 19:15:07 | pb_ | lars_g: sync is still pretty much up in the air, I think most of the rest of the data storage standard is defined. |
| 19:15:24 | lars_g | btw why matchbox? |
| 19:15:40 | pb_ | lars_g: I guess the first thing to do would be make a list of the apps you miss from qtopia. |
| 19:16:10 | pb_ | lars_g: matchbox just seems like the best bet for a window manager on a palmtop; was there another WM in particular you were thinking of? |
| 19:16:14 | lars_g | pb_: easy. a real calculator (neocal) |
| 19:16:17 | dc_ | lars_g: mallum just a cool guy |
| 19:16:19 | pb_ | yo mccarthy |
| 19:16:24 | dc_ | mccarthy: :) |
| 19:16:25 | mccarthy | pb is back! |
| 19:16:29 | dc_ | yes! |
| 19:16:30 | lars_g | a great hierarichal note/sketch/todo system (iqnotes) |
| 19:16:36 | dc_ | and I'm going |
| 19:16:50 | dc_ | lars_g: gpe-notes, I see it alreay :) |
| 19:16:53 | pb_ | lars_g: yeah, a real calculator is something I want too. |
| 19:16:58 | lars_g | a good File manager that doesn't takes megs of space and uses slow python. |
| 19:17:25 | pb_ | mccarthy: sure am |
| 19:17:35 | lars_g | A encrypted password system with a nice interface (keyring, this one is easy FPM from linux hosts shoudl eb portable in a swift I started doign so a little ago I can continue on with it.) |
| 19:18:11 | dc_ | ah yes, file browser. |
| 19:18:16 | dc_ | gpe-browse |
| 19:18:19 | dc_ | :) |
| 19:18:28 | lars_g | and a coherent system, exemplified mainly for 1) the storage of application data under a single directory. |
| 19:18:41 | dc_ | oh and I might start gpe-gallery in Oz, once I finish up gpe-media |
| 19:18:42 | lars_g | and 2) for the tight-to-base-system configuration apps. |
| 19:18:48 | dc_ | lars_g: already one |
| 19:18:51 | dc_ | lars_g: 1) |
| 19:18:54 | dc_ | lars_g: I think |
| 19:19:01 | lars_g | also I do not belive in one single bloated config app I belive in one easily upgradeable module for each task |
| 19:19:02 | mccarthy | pb_: I just saw your email about keylanch and gpe-soundbite.... is this a workable solution now? |
| 19:19:11 | dc_ | lars_g: yeah, we o need some app config stuff in libgpe |
| 19:19:18 | lars_g | dc_: if the data storage schema is followed and used sure :) |
| 19:19:47 | lars_g | I do not liek defininf standards, I might have a good or bad mind for that but I dislike that weight on my shoulders |
| 19:19:54 | pb_ | mccarthy: not sure, I haven't tried it, but moray checked in mad amounts of changes while I was away. |
| 19:19:57 | lars_g | so i'll just start porting the stuff I miss. |
| 19:19:58 | mccarthy | pb_: In particular, I have tried using keyctl (which works fine), but it gets goofed up as to the users home directory, et al |
| 19:20:13 | dc_ | I'm thinking the system config apps gpe-system or maby gpe-config should be alot of little seperate apps for network, time etc.. |
| 19:20:14 | mccarthy | pb_: changes to which app? gpe-soundbite? |
| 19:20:26 | pb_ | mccarthy: both, soundbite and keylaunch. mainly soundbite though. |
| 19:20:29 | dc_ | lars_g: :D |
| 19:20:38 | lars_g | pb_: About the WM.... |
| 19:20:50 | mccarthy | pb_: we need to put the drawing area in gpe-todo in a scrolled window.... |
| 19:21:06 | pb_ | mccarthy: right, that had occurred to me too. |
| 19:21:07 | lars_g | pb_: I before switchign to opie had a quite tweaked version of IceWM, it was the most confortable WM i've used in a palm ever. |
| 19:21:27 | pb_ | lars_g: well, nothing about GPE is actually tied to matchbox, you can use whatever WM you like. |
| 19:21:37 | lars_g | pb_: for one I even modified it and never could compile it until now to be able to open apps maximized or minimized at will |
| 19:21:54 | lars_g | pb_: I could do a gpe enabled IceWM :) |
| 19:21:58 | mccarthy | but matchbox rocks! |
| 19:22:07 | lars_g | mccarthy: IceWM too. |
| 19:22:10 | mccarthy | mallum : :) |
| 19:22:33 | lars_g | mccarthy: all that I missed from IceWM is that I was too lazy to recode the battery metter into a graphical mode... |
| 19:22:34 | pb_ | lars_g: sure, just install it as x-window-manager (or create a custom .xsession) and you should be in business. |
| 19:22:42 | mccarthy | lars_g: IceWM is ok. I was using it before matchbox became stable... |
| 19:22:44 | dc_ | parades, "matchbox!!!" |
| 19:22:50 | lars_g | pb_: yes but gpe-enablign it also means a few more tweaks. :) |
| 19:23:10 | lars_g | mccarthy: yes but you weren't using my setup ;) |
| 19:23:29 | mccarthy | lars_g: you are correct... screenshots? |
| 19:23:32 | lars_g | mccarthy: Modified minimalist skin to get a very thin and usseable Wm. |
| 19:23:48 | lars_g | no task in taskbar, unsuefull, instead setup a easy to access window list. |
| 19:24:06 | lars_g | used three virtual desktops to use various apps at the same tiem with eficiency |
| 19:24:32 | lars_g | set xstroke in a in-taskbar easy toggle icon to bring it up and down fastly and easily |
| 19:24:35 | lars_g | :) |
| 19:24:55 | lars_g | Once I recompile and switch experimentally back to X11 i'll give you screenshots mccarthy :) |
| 19:25:04 | lars_g | I think i'll work on that today |
| 19:28:13 | pb_ | lars_g: suggest you add those programs you mentioned to the gpe wiki page, it's linked to from gpe.handhelds.org I think. |
| 19:28:15 | dc_ | pb_: have we got an ipkg of the alpha version of gpe-appmgr? |
| 19:29:19 | pb_ | dc_: not sure, you want me to build one? |
| 19:29:43 | mccarthy | dc_: I built one yesterday, but noticed nothing interesting.... |
| 19:30:14 | mccarthy | http://granular.che.pitt.edu/~mccarthy/feed/ |
| 19:30:30 | pb_ | hmm, I seem to have a couple of local changes in my gpe-appmgr tree. :-/ |
| 19:31:05 | mccarthy | dc_: I was mostly interested in the recent-apps docking, but it doesn't seem to work in matchbox-0.3 |
| 19:31:38 | pb_ | mccarthy: what's the recent-apps docking all about anyway? I missed that. |
| 19:31:40 | dc_ | pb_: can we get one within the hour? |
| 19:32:14 | pb_ | dc_: sure, probably 10 mins. |
| 19:32:30 | pb_ | dc_: or it sounds like Joe has one ready to go |
| 19:32:42 | mccarthy | pb_: gpe-appmgr now has a little recent-apps bar where little (tiny) pixmaps of the last few apps show up (and can be clicked to restart the app) |
| 19:33:09 | mccarthy | dc_: see my "too-unstable-for-unstable" feed (above) |
| 19:33:37 | mccarthy | pb_: the latest gpe-appmgr is supposed to allow this recent-app bar to dock itself... |
| 19:33:50 | pb_ | mccarthy: right, I see. |
| 19:33:50 | dc_ | mccarthy: ahh cool |
| 19:33:52 | mccarthy | but it doesn't (afaik) |
| 19:34:00 | dc_ | hrm |
| 19:34:01 | dc_ | yeah |
| 19:34:01 | dc_ | I heard that too |
| 19:36:25 | dc_ | http://granular.che.pitt.edu/~mccarthy/feed/gpe-appmgr_0.06_arm.ipk |
| 19:36:27 | dc_ | not found :/ |
| 19:37:19 | pb_ | dc_: I dropped an ipkg from my latest tree in handhelds.org:~pb if you're interested |
| 19:38:32 | mccarthy | dc_: I called it 08..... |
| 19:38:58 | dc_ | mccarthy: tut tut :) |
| 19:39:07 | dc_ | mccarthy: need to remove that index.html I think.. |
| 19:39:38 | mccarthy | dc_: oops. I meant to remove that and tell apache to simply let people see the file-list... |
| 19:41:37 | pb_ | looks like the only difference between my gpe-appmgr and the mibus tree is that mine will display apps that have no icon. |
| 19:41:55 | dc_ | hrm |
| 19:41:59 | dc_ | pb_: that sucks |
| 19:42:22 | dc_ | pb_: plus I have this really small viewing area for icons |
| 19:42:32 | dc_ | wtf |
| 19:42:37 | pb_ | dc_: what sucks? |
| 19:42:53 | pb_ | dc_: now you aren't making any sense |
| 19:43:46 | dc_ | yeah |
| 19:43:48 | dc_ | sorry |
| 19:43:55 | dc_ | ignore that |
| 19:44:39 | dc_ | hrm |
| 19:46:48 | dc_ | pb_: the way it displays things even without an icon sucks |
| 19:47:41 | pb_ | dc_: well, you should still get the "default" icon |
| 19:48:03 | pb_ | dc_: (the one that kind of looks like a window with a finger pointing at it) |
| 19:48:27 | dc_ | hm |
| 19:48:29 | dc_ | I don't get one |
| 19:48:32 | dc_ | just no icon |
| 19:48:33 | pb_ | weird |
| 19:48:45 | pb_ | oh, hmm, there might be some naming issue |
| 19:48:57 | dc_ | damn |
| 19:49:03 | dc_ | what's your icon named? |
| 19:49:08 | pb_ | have a look in /usr/share/pixmaps, do you have menu_unknown_program48.png? |
| 19:49:19 | pb_ | I have a feeling it might have been called menu_unknown_program.png at one time. |
| 19:49:26 | dc_ | ahh |
| 19:49:28 | dc_ | only 16 |
| 19:49:30 | pb_ | or possibly vice versa |
| 19:49:33 | dc_ | not 48 |
| 19:49:36 | dc_ | weird |
| 19:49:41 | pb_ | wacky |
| 19:49:47 | dc_ | pb_: can you DCC me yours? |
| 19:50:00 | pb_ | dc_: sure, but I'll have to pull it off the ipaq, just a minute |
| 19:58:07 | dc_ | hrm |
| 19:58:13 | dc_ | is gpe-terminal in unstable? |
| 19:59:19 | pb_ | doesn't look like it |
| 19:59:42 | dc_ | mccarthy: ah ha |
| 19:59:47 | dc_ | mccarthy: found the recent apps think |
| 20:00:09 | dc_ | mccarthy: found the recent apps thing |
| 20:00:10 | dc_ | mccarthy: enable it in the gpe-appmgr config |
| 20:01:08 | mallum | lars_g: icewm SUXOR DUDE matchbox RULEZ |
| 20:01:09 | dc_ | pb_: we need biliniar scaling |
| 20:01:15 | mallum | lars_g: ;) |
| 20:01:16 | dc_ | mallum: dude :D |
| 20:02:06 | pb_ | dc_: yeah |
| 20:02:11 | mccarthy | dc_: I have a recent apps thing going on, its just not docking.... |
| 20:02:12 | mallum | pb_: oh just remembered what I was gonna ask you .... |
| 20:02:24 | pb_ | mallum: hit me |
| 20:02:24 | mallum | pb_: running gtk2 on ipaq is really slow |
| 20:02:48 | mallum | pb_: I *think* its becuase gtk2 double buffers everything with pixbuf :( |
| 20:03:11 | mallum | pb_: So I poked around the pixbuf source for lashings of fp |
| 20:03:12 | pb_ | mallum: ugh |
| 20:03:22 | mallum | pb_: but couldn't really see any ... ? |
| 20:03:37 | pb_ | mallum: there's certainly some in the scaling code |
| 20:03:42 | pb_ | mallum: let me check the source.... |
| 20:03:50 | dc_ | hmm |
| 20:06:51 | pb_ | dc_: btw, if you installed libgpewidget 0.09, you may want to update to 0.10 due to a small debugging snafu. |
| 20:07:25 | dc_ | pb_: in unstable. |
| 20:07:27 | dc_ | ? |
| 20:07:29 | pb_ | yup |
| 20:07:33 | pb_ | should be, anyway |
| 20:08:02 | dc_ | goo |
| 20:08:13 | dc_ | d |
| 20:08:36 | pb_ | mallum: yep, if you grep for "double" in gdk-pixbuf, you get loads of hits in gdk-pixbuf-scale.c |
| 20:08:47 | pb_ | mallum: also gnome-canvas-pixbuf.c, dunno if that matters to us or not. |
| 20:09:57 | lars_g | ok |
| 20:10:02 | lars_g | i'll try matchbox |
| 20:10:13 | lars_g | but are there themes for batchbox? |
| 20:10:18 | lars_g | or is it one-themed? |
| 20:10:24 | pb_ | lars_g: it has themes |
| 20:10:25 | dc_ | there's a cool aqua one :) |
| 20:10:40 | dc_ | prays as sshd upgrades |
| 20:10:42 | mallum | lars_g: or course there are themes ! MUAHAHAHA |
| 20:10:49 | mccarthy | lars_g mallum: and a "classic"! (or there *should* be anyway :) |
| 20:11:00 | mallum | lars_g: get 0.3rc1 ( with classic theme ) |
| 20:11:11 | | i guess matchbox is a X11 window manager for handheld devices. Info, screenshots & downloadable at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/matchbox . Ipkg is in the familiar unstable feed. Development versions and other goodies at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/ |
| 20:11:11 | mallum | ibot: matchbox |
| 20:11:12 | mccarthy | mallum: yippee! |
| 20:11:37 | mallum | lars_g: check in expermental dir there + make sure you read the readme :) |
| 20:11:46 | mallum | mccarthy: check scap |
| 20:11:48 | | no idea, mccarthy |
| 20:11:48 | mccarthy | ibot: whats a good image processing suite for linux. similar to khoros, but free? |
| 20:12:01 | | no idea, mccarthy |
| 20:12:01 | mccarthy | ibot: could you ask jeeves for me? |
| 20:12:25 | pb_ | mccarthy, stop picking on ibot |
| 20:12:47 | mccarthy | pb_: but I cant think of anyone else to ask :) |
| 20:12:59 | pb_ | heh |
| 20:13:08 | | well, scap is http://handhelds.org/scap/ or a CGI application now |
| 20:13:08 | mccarthy | ibot: where is scap |
| 20:14:31 | mallum | mccarthy: use gimp, or imagemagik |
| 20:15:14 | mccarthy | mallum: i like the gradient stuff! (and the new dock pop-up menu!!!) |
| 20:15:32 | pb_ | hm, sounds like I need to update my matchbox! |
| 20:15:50 | mccarthy | mallum: yes, I thought of those for image processing, but I am not sure that they are as useful as khoros.... |
| 20:15:55 | mccarthy | or as easy to script |
| 20:16:05 | mccarthy | pb_: yes! matchbox 0.3 is *way* cool |
| 20:16:18 | dc_ | :D |
| 20:17:11 | pb_ | checks out the code |
| 20:17:21 | pb_ | well, it's compiling now |
| 20:17:40 | pb_ | dc_: was your upgrade a success? |
| 20:17:43 | mccarthy | pb_: f you mean matchbox, why not grab ipk from mallum? |
| 20:17:54 | dc_ | pb_: yeP :) |
| 20:18:06 | dc_ | mallum: think you really have DoSed scap :) |
| 20:18:09 | pb_ | mccarthy: dunno, I guess I just got into the habit of building my matchboxes from source |
| 20:18:37 | pb_ | mccarthy: but it seems I'm in some kind of autotools hell (as usual) so maybe I'll try the ipk after all. |
| 20:18:58 | pb_ | util/Makefile.am:12: variable `APM_PROGS' not defined |
| 20:18:58 | pb_ | util/Makefile.am:16: invalid unused variable name: `miniapm_LDADD' |
| 20:18:58 | pb_ | util/Makefile.am:15: invalid unused variable name: `miniapm_SOURCES' |
| 20:18:58 | pb_ | make[1]: *** [Makefile.in] Error 1 |
| 20:18:59 | pb_ | :-/ |
| 20:20:16 | mccarthy | mallum: you cheating bastard! that scap image has "app launcher" and "launchers" and "input methods" in the pop-up... but no joy in rc1.ipk! |
| 20:21:00 | mccarthy | mallum: and the dock seems a little *green* in the classic theme... I was thinking *gray* |
| 20:21:02 | dc_ | boodle: :D |
| 20:21:05 | dc_ | mallum: yeah dude |
| 20:21:07 | boodle | dc_: howdy |
| 20:21:08 | mallum | mccarthy: who didn't read the readme then ? |
| 20:21:20 | dc_ | mallum: the dock menu items have gone. |
| 20:21:29 | lars_g | the 3640 consumes WAY more batt than the 3150 |
| 20:21:31 | boodle | mallum: sorry, fp? floating point? |
| 20:21:45 | lars_g | I might even get a battery packed pcmcia sleeve to be able to cope with the consumption |
| 20:21:52 | mallum | dc_, mccarthy: run the findall_dockapps.sh script |
| 20:22:02 | mallum | boodle: yep |
| 20:22:21 | boodle | ugh, ok. better try it on sa platform now to see how bad it is.. |
| 20:22:37 | dc_ | mallum: ah |
| 20:22:38 | mccarthy | mallum: not installed with the ipk?! |
| 20:22:42 | dc_ | mallum: maby that should be a menu item? |
| 20:22:51 | mallum | mccarthy: no of course not Im too lazy |
| 20:23:10 | pb_ | mallum: what's the difference between ma2 and ma3 xstrokes? |
| 20:23:17 | mallum | pb_: are you getting that auto* crap from CVS ? |
| 20:23:26 | pb_ | mallum: not sure |
| 20:23:28 | mallum | pb_: fixed docking code |
| 20:23:32 | pb_ | mallum: yay! |
| 20:23:42 | mallum | pb_: the current ipkg is exactly as whats in CVS |
| 20:23:43 | pb_ | mallum: what was the matter with it in the end? |
| 20:23:55 | mallum | pb_: hmm cant remember was something simple |
| 20:24:10 | pb_ | :-) |
| 20:24:19 | pb_ | sigh |
| 20:24:25 | pb_ | Configuring xstroke.../usr/bin/update-menus: /etc/menu-methods/CVS: permission d |
| 20:24:25 | pb_ | enied |
| 20:24:25 | pb_ | pkg_run_script: `/usr/lib/ipkg/info/xstroke.postinst configure' failed. |
| 20:24:25 | pb_ | ERROR: xstroke.postinst returned 126 |
| 20:24:40 | pb_ | dumb ol' gpe-appmgr I guess |
| 20:25:01 | mallum | pb_: hmmm I havn;t touched any of the xstroke menu stuff |
| 20:25:11 | mallum | pb_: or ipkg build scripts |
| 20:25:12 | pb_ | mallum: no, I don't think that was xstroke's fault |
| 20:25:35 | pb_ | mallum: almost certainly the last gpe-appmgr I built is to blame. |
| 20:26:44 | pb_ | dc_: beware if you installed that. |
| 20:27:37 | pb_ | back later: food |
| 20:28:09 | lars_g | ohh no ipkg of 0.3? :( |
| 20:28:56 | mccarthy | mallum: nevermind that *green* comment, it looks fine now.... |
| 20:29:02 | lars_g | undusts his native compiler and prays it still works. |
| 20:30:47 | | it has been said that matchbox is a X11 window manager for handheld devices. Info, screenshots & downloadable at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/matchbox . Ipkg is in the familiar unstable feed. Development versions and other goodies at http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/ |
| 20:30:47 | lars_g | ibot: matchbox? |
| 20:30:50 | mallum | mccarthy: yep. I set the colour def slightly wrong :( |
| 20:30:56 | mccarthy | mallum: is the screen rotator supposed to actually do anything? ;) and I still dont have the "launcher" |
| 20:31:31 | mallum | http://handhelds.org/~mallum/downloadables/experimental |
| 20:31:32 | mallum | mccarthy: no its broken ( though fixed on my ipaq ) |
| 20:32:32 | mallum | gasps in amazement as sid begins to use emacs key combos |
| 20:32:54 | mccarthy | mallum: do you mean fixed in CVS? |
| 20:33:04 | mallum | mccarthy: put this; |
| 20:33:07 | mallum | if [ -z "$(xrandr | grep Current | grep left)" ]; then xrandr -o left; else xrandr -o normal; fi |
| 20:33:21 | mallum | in a little shell script |
| 20:34:12 | dc_ | mallum: whoa |
| 20:34:22 | dc_ | mallum: I can't even do that :{ |
| 20:34:38 | mallum | and then change /usr/share/matchbox/mbdock/xrandr |
| 20:34:39 | dc_ | quickly starts reading the emacs man pages |
| 20:34:44 | dc_ | I need to catch up |
| 20:35:11 | mallum | so cmd reads something like |
| 20:35:34 | mallum | monolaunch -r -l <some xpm> /path/to/above/script |
| 20:35:57 | mallum | mccarthy: you can also do a similar thing for the backlight; |
| 20:36:23 | mallum | mccarthy: if [ -n "$(bl | grep -i on)" ]; then bl off; else bl on; fi |
| 20:37:02 | mallum | mccarthy: another fun thing to do is; monolaunch -m <some xpm> 'ps wax | head' |
| 20:37:30 | lars_g | what's newer? pre5 or rc1? |
| 20:37:32 | mallum | mccarthy: not even in cvs yet as there just things I've been playing about with |
| 20:37:36 | mallum | lars_g: rc1 |
| 20:37:43 | lars_g | thanks mallum |
| 20:42:39 | lars_g | I must not be installign well |
| 20:43:07 | lars_g | it loads as a backgroundless X11 with a enlongated xstroke and a empty long grey bar on the bottom |
| 20:45:02 | lars_g | mallum: any tips? can't find anything to this on readme.txt |
| 20:45:24 | mallum | install the xstroke in experimental |
| 20:45:39 | mallum | start matchbox with 'mbstart' |
| 20:47:43 | lars_g | should I add mbstart to /etc/init.d/x ? |
| 20:48:46 | pb_ | yay, libgpewidget now builds for other architectures: http://buildd.debian.org/ |
| 20:52:52 | dc_ | hrmf |
| 20:53:00 | dc_ | dillo won't wrap my text :{ |
| 21:01:14 | dc_ | right |
| 21:01:34 | dc_ | now do I list all the dirs in my cwd in bash? |
| 21:03:52 | dc_ | mallum: sid probly even know that :) |
| 21:05:26 | dc_ | ah nm |
| 21:05:29 | dc_ | python |
| 21:05:31 | dc_ | saved my ass |
| 21:06:08 | pb_ | you still have python installed? tch. |
| 21:10:10 | lars_g | hmmm nope matchbox still starts with only a big xstroke (i'll change it now) and an empty grey line..... |
| 21:13:18 | lars_g | any ideas? help? |
| 21:13:54 | dc_ | pb_: desktop :) |
| 21:14:08 | dc_ | think I have everything now... |
| 21:14:17 | dc_ | alice though the looking glass... |
| 21:14:20 | dc_ | gtk docs. |
| 21:14:25 | dc_ | gpe CVS tree. |
| 21:20:29 | pb_ | dc_: cool |
| 21:22:02 | lars_g | no ideas? no help? well i'll forge my fix as always, thanks |
| 21:22:17 | lars_g | has learnt all from havign to solve %98 of his problems himself. |
| 21:27:11 | lars_g | hmmm ok |
| 21:27:18 | lars_g | mbstart is not starting mmenu |
| 21:27:29 | lars_g | and there are no dock plugins set up |
| 21:29:32 | mallum | lars_g: click and hold on the dock |
| 21:29:39 | lars_g | ok letting Session take care of the menu and xstroke... |
| 21:29:47 | lars_g | mallum: that will let me load pluginbs? thanks |
| 21:29:59 | lars_g | mallum: btw will gtksolo work with matchbox (if it ever works at all) |
| 21:31:26 | lars_g | mallum: thanks mbdock is a good app |
| 21:31:52 | lars_g | mallum: last question, how can I change the font settings for matchbox? the one I have is unreadably small or garbled. |
| 21:31:53 | mallum | lars_g: use xmonobut rather than gtksolo |
| 21:32:13 | lars_g | ok xmonobut is the same... should I use it via mbstart or session? |
| 21:32:36 | mallum | lars_g: grab the updated one in experimental dir |
| 21:33:05 | lars_g | mallum: did so already |
| 21:33:07 | lars_g | thanks |
| 21:33:08 | mallum | lars_g: you should download the findall_dockapps.sh there too, run it and then reload the dock |
| 21:33:29 | lars_g | mallum: okies, will that accoutn for xkbd if I have it? |
| 21:33:40 | mallum | lars_g: yep |
| 21:34:12 | mallum | lars_g: the script is just a hack till I get round to adding entries for various ipkgs |
| 21:34:59 | lars_g | still the hack is a good idea in case not all developers are cooperative |
| 21:35:27 | mallum | yeah, its mainly my packages it needs adding to though ;) |
| 21:37:08 | lars_g | mallum: I see finddockapps has created entries for mmenu and xstroke, should I delete them from the session and have mbdock start? |
| 21:38:10 | mallum | lars_g: no they should be fine |
| 21:38:23 | mallum | lars_g: all the session file is, is whatever is in ~/.mbdock |
| 21:41:00 | lars_g | mallum two questions left then (matchbox is very fine btw) |
| 21:41:06 | lars_g | where do I change the font settings? |
| 21:41:14 | lars_g | and where are mmenu's files? |
| 21:42:39 | mallum | you want to run the familiar ~/postinst script to install m$ fonts |
| 21:43:12 | mallum | that current build only does xft fonts, the final 0.3 release will be available in 2 flavours |
| 21:43:38 | mallum | mmenu reads /usr/lib/menu and ~/.menu |
| 21:43:55 | lars_g | thanks abotu the menu but... |
| 21:44:07 | lars_g | the fonts I mean not the availabel ones, but where do I set the default one for matchbox |
| 21:44:14 | mallum | pb_: I poked jg about pixbuf as he's buddies with owen taylor ( author ? ) who he may then poke .... |
| 21:44:35 | dc__ | mallum: cool |
| 21:44:49 | mallum | lars_g: oh, you need to look in /usr/share/matchbox/themes/*/theme.xml |
| 21:45:08 | dc__ | right |
| 21:45:13 | dc__ | I need to get some sleep |
| 21:45:18 | lars_g | thanks mallum |
| 21:45:18 | dc__ | leaving tomorrow lunchtime |
| 21:45:22 | dc__ | may be on early |
| 21:45:35 | lars_g | and is there any way to change the default theme btw? |
| 21:45:46 | mallum | dc__: well if I dont catch your before .... have an excellent time :)) |
| 21:45:51 | dc__ | and I'll be in tokyo this time in 2 days ;D |
| 21:46:07 | mallum | lars_g: yes vi mbcontrol or config -> matchbox in mmenu |
| 21:46:10 | dc__ | mallum: thanks very much |
| 21:46:19 | mallum | dc__: how long you gone for ? |
| 21:46:44 | dc__ | you'll probly hear from be in about 3 days once I'm in Oz and the iBook is setup |
| 21:46:49 | dc__ | mallum: 7 weeks. |
| 21:46:56 | lars_g | looks at the format of the menu files and grunts. |
| 21:47:05 | mccarthy | mallum: are the "launchers" I see in your scaps simply monolauches? |
| 21:47:08 | mallum | dc__: wow, long time |
| 21:47:12 | dc__ | mallum: but there's gonna be nothing to do there, so it's gonna be a good time to code, in the rainforest :) |
| 21:47:19 | mallum | mccarthy: yep |
| 21:47:23 | dc__ | with my iBook :} |
| 21:47:25 | pb_ | dc__: heh |
| 21:47:27 | dc__ | hwhw |
| 21:47:27 | mccarthy | mallum: how come I am ignoring my .mbdock file? |
| 21:47:29 | dc__ | hehe |
| 21:47:36 | mallum | dc__: will you be connected to the intraweb ? |
| 21:47:51 | mallum | mccarthy: I dont know ? |
| 21:47:53 | dc__ | mallum: most likely, but sparse. |
| 21:47:59 | mallum | mccarthy: are you running with -n ? |
| 21:48:20 | mccarthy | mallum: not that I know of.... |
| 21:48:51 | mccarthy | mallum: how/where is mbstart started? |
| 21:49:08 | dc__ | talk to you all soon pb_, mallum, mccarthy, lars_g et al |
| 21:49:09 | dc__ | :) |
| 21:49:20 | mccarthy | dc__: have fun... |
| 21:49:20 | pb_ | dc__: yup, have a good time |
| 21:49:29 | mccarthy | later all... |
| 21:53:14 | pb_ | mallum: just noticed that the dock seems fond of creating redundant "sh" processes: |
| 21:53:24 | pb_ | 1093 ? S 0:00 /bin/sh /etc/X11/Xsession |
| 21:53:24 | pb_ | 1120 ? S 0:00 \_ x-menu-manager |
| 21:53:24 | pb_ | 1122 ? S 0:00 \_ xstroke |
| 21:53:24 | pb_ | 1130 ? S 0:00 | \_ xstroke |
| 21:53:24 | pb_ | 1131 ? S 0:00 | \_ xstroke |
| 21:53:24 | pb_ | 1125 ? S 0:03 \_ gpe-appmgr |
| 21:53:26 | pb_ | 1128 ? S 0:00 \_ matchbox |
| 21:53:29 | pb_ | 1129 ? S 0:00 \_ mbdock |
| 21:53:30 | pb_ | 1132 ? S 0:00 \_ sh -c miniapm |
| 21:53:32 | pb_ | 1133 ? S 0:00 | \_ miniapm |
| 21:53:34 | pb_ | 1134 ? S 0:00 \_ sh -c monolaunch -k /usr/share/xkbd/img/k |
| 21:53:36 | pb_ | 1136 ? S 0:00 | \_ monolaunch -k /usr/share/xkbd/img/kbd |
| 21:53:38 | pb_ | 1137 ? S 0:00 \_ sh -c x-menu-manager |
| 21:53:40 | pb_ | 1138 ? S 0:00 \_ x-menu-manager |
| 21:53:42 | pb_ | mallum: anything we can do to curtail that? |
| 21:54:56 | lars_g | switch to a system() directly to the program? |
| 21:55:13 | pb_ | lars_g: well, I suspect that's what he's doing already: system() calls the shell. |
| 21:55:24 | pb_ | lars_g: I dunno if you can use system("exec ...") |
| 21:55:37 | pb_ | lars_g: otherwise, maybe it has to be execl(). |
| 21:57:53 | lars_g | pb_: or open a program as a pipe and never listen to the pipe? |
| 21:58:19 | lars_g | btw can I set a background for matchbox? the X11 dots are a lousy background |
| 21:58:26 | mallum | pb_: hmm, I just fork and exec |
| 21:58:54 | mallum | lars_g: thats not really matchbox job - use xsetroot |
| 21:59:08 | pb_ | mallum: hmm, right |
| 21:59:09 | lars_g | hmmm thanks mallum |
| 21:59:18 | pb_ | mallum: any particular reason why you use the "sh -c" in your exec? |
| 21:59:22 | mallum | pb_: should I remove the "sh" param ? |
| 21:59:27 | mallum | pb_: not that I can remember |
| 22:00:23 | pb_ | mallum: well, the only real reason for having it there would be if you were worried that the command string might need expanding (shell variables or the like). That could happen if it came from the user directly via the command line, but it doesn't seem so likely with the dock. |
| 22:01:00 | mallum | pb_: ah yes |
| 22:01:08 | mallum | pb_: I understand |
| 22:01:17 | lars_g | aww no jpg roots :( |
| 22:01:17 | mallum | pb_: I'll pull it out now |
| 22:01:22 | pb_ | mallum: cool |
| 22:01:45 | lars_g | that should save a few threads and resources |
| 22:03:11 | lars_g | well now I have X11 and opie on the ipaq |
| 22:03:17 | mallum | pb_: what if something like 'ps wax | head' is passed in ? |
| 22:03:21 | lars_g | opie gives me a great program base and very coherent system |
| 22:03:25 | lars_g | and X11 gives me portability |
| 22:03:37 | pb_ | mallum: hmm, that would lose |
| 22:04:34 | pb_ | mallum: where do those command strings actually come from, originally? Maybe we can arrange for the simple ones to have "exec" put on the front. |
| 22:06:15 | mallum | pb_: actually it shouldn't be too much os a problem as something like 'monolaunch -m some.xpm 'ps wax | head' would be fine ? |
| 22:06:43 | pb_ | mallum: sure, that would be no problem: monolaunch would take care of the shell stuff in that case. |
| 22:07:52 | mallum | pb_: is there an exec style command that doesn't need me to split up the cmd str ? |
| 22:08:27 | pb_ | mallum: plain execl is probably what you want |
| 22:08:38 | mallum | pb_: cool, thought so |
| 22:08:53 | mallum | pb_: thanks for noticing that BTW ( overuse of sh ) |
| 22:09:57 | pb_ | mallum: oh, actually no, execl will still require you to do the string splitting yourself. That's a bit of a shame. |
| 22:10:31 | lars_g | mallum: btw it would be nice to be able to specify a background in the theme |
| 22:11:02 | mallum | pb_: yes |
| 22:11:08 | pb_ | mallum: when your ipaq has only 32MB of RAM you have to be alert for these things. :-) |
| 22:11:26 | mallum | pb_: I probably do it tommorow now .. brain is a little dry |
| 22:11:36 | mallum | pb_: I'll put it at the top of the TODO |
| 22:11:42 | pb_ | mallum: okay, great. |
| 22:12:33 | mallum | pb_: ah yes, in theory matchbox with xft should be able to support utf8 |
| 22:12:53 | mallum | pb_: its picking up utf window name propertys if available |
| 22:13:03 | pb_ | mallum: wow, that would be superb |
| 22:13:21 | mallum | pb_: but I need to set the locale , so all the str* commands etc work correctly right ? |
| 22:13:33 | pb_ | mallum: yes |
| 22:14:12 | pb_ | mallum: and therein we have a small problem, because I don't think familiar ships with the locale definition files (grr) |
| 22:15:08 | mallum | pb_: Im guessing I can query the local to see if utf8 is available ? |
| 22:16:07 | pb_ | mallum: well, kind of, though I wouldn't have thought matchbox would need to know. |
| 22:17:13 | pb_ | mallum: you can do nl_langinfo(LC_CTYPE) to get the encoding for the current locale; it will be "UTF-8" if utf8 is in use. |
| 22:17:42 | lars_g | and I still have 2Mb free on the ipaq. |
| 22:18:02 | lars_g | I migth even as well move /usr/X11R6 to the CF and link liek I did with opie |
| 22:18:06 | lars_g | and free even mroe space |
| 22:19:25 | lars_g | I already have opie and the whole development system (gcc) on the CF |
| 22:19:54 | lars_g | heh at the rate I am going I could even load everything into the CF and dualboot to CE so I could have WinCE, X11 and opie |
| 22:19:58 | mallum | pb_: ok I need to read up on it again I think |
| 22:20:15 | mallum | pb_: but its currently set up to display utf8 |
| 22:20:28 | mallum | pb_: I just need to make sure the str* stuff works correctly |
| 22:20:30 | pb_ | mallum: righto |
| 22:21:08 | pb_ | mallum: well, the str* functions should "just work" without any special involvement on your part. You just need to make sure you call setlocale() somewhere near the start of your program. |
| 22:22:50 | pb_ | mallum: incidentally, the "simple" functions like strcpy, strcat, strlen don't care about UTF-8 at all. It's really only strcoll that it makes a difference for. |
| 22:23:40 | mallum | pb_: sure strlen would care about utf8 if it had non single byte chararcter encoded in it ? |
| 22:24:31 | mallum | pb_: yes, can I do something like - if utf8 available set locale utf8 ? |
| 22:25:31 | pb_ | mallum: strlen is defined to give you the number of bytes, not the number of glyphs. If you need the latter, you will have to crawl down the string and count them up one at a time. |
| 22:26:00 | pb_ | mallum: it's easiest just to do setlocale(LC_ALL, "") which will set the locale to the one specified in the environment. |
| 22:26:37 | lars_g | I need a little help if you coudl give it to me please |
| 22:26:40 | mallum | pb_: ewe, strlen now sucks :( |
| 22:27:11 | mallum | pb_: but I think I need to know if the locale is utf8 for the support to work |
| 22:27:11 | lars_g | the font fixed on akwa theme is defined as follows: <font id="fixed" def="helvetica-7:bold|fixed" /> |
| 22:27:15 | pb_ | mallum: if you are going to have to do manual string manipulations (ie counting glyphs), it would probably be easiest to do setlocale() first, then retrieve nl_langinfo(LC_CTYPE) and only turn on the retrieving utf8 properties if it comes back UTF8. |
| 22:27:22 | lars_g | I do not have Verdana, and do not want to use it. |
| 22:27:38 | mallum | pb_: cool, sounds like what I need |
| 22:27:47 | mallum | lars_g: tray sans-7:bold |
| 22:27:54 | mallum | s/tray/try |
| 22:27:55 | pb_ | mallum: I can mail you an example strwidth() function if you need it. |
| 22:28:05 | lars_g | i'd liek usign this one as defined in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/fonts.dir: -adobe-helvetica-bold-o-normal--10-100-75-75-p-60-iso8859-1 |
| 22:28:06 | mallum | pb_: yeah that would be handy |
| 22:28:23 | lars_g | how do I need to define it? helvetica-10:bold ? |
| 22:28:29 | mallum | lars_g: needs to be a ttf font for xft matchbox to support it |
| 22:28:47 | lars_g | mallum: ack, then i'm fried no got no ttf fonts |
| 22:29:04 | mallum | lars_g: running the ./postinst will get you some |
| 22:29:50 | mallum | pb_: If I count the glyphs wrong, window titles are gonna be all wrong |
| 22:30:12 | pb_ | mallum: doesn't Xft do that for you? |
| 22:31:06 | mallum | pb_: thininking ... |
| 22:31:20 | mallum | pb_: xft will tell me the width of a string in pixels |
| 22:31:34 | pb_ | mallum: and that's what you want, right? |
| 22:31:47 | mallum | pb_: if that is too wide, I have to reduce the length of the str by 1 and repeat |
| 22:32:09 | pb_ | mallum: ugh |
| 22:32:38 | pb_ | mallum: okay, in that case you will indeed need to do some funky string bashing. |
| 22:32:43 | mallum | pb_: ... and I have to tell it the number of chars in the str I want the length for |
| 22:32:54 | pb_ | mallum: are you sure that isn't the number of bytes again? |
| 22:34:26 | mallum | pb_: hmm; docs for xft are not that helpful; |
| 22:34:29 | mallum | void |
| 22:34:29 | mallum | XftTextExtentsUtf8 (Display*dpy, |
| 22:34:30 | mallum | XftFont*font, |
| 22:34:30 | mallum | XftChar8*string, |
| 22:34:30 | mallum | intlen, |
| 22:34:30 | mallum | XGlyphInfo*extents); |
| 22:34:53 | mallum | no indication if len is glyphs or bytes |
| 22:35:06 | lars_g | shoot me |
| 22:35:09 | lars_g | please shoot me |
| 22:35:11 | lars_g | I like verdana |
| 22:35:15 | lars_g | I like a microsoft product |
| 22:35:17 | lars_g | I wanna die |
| 22:35:58 | mallum | verdana is a fucking excellent screen font |
| 22:36:05 | mallum | sorry to swear |
| 22:36:25 | mallum | anyone with money can pay a decent font designer to do a decent font |
| 22:36:30 | mallum | m$ have lots of money |
| 22:37:59 | pb_ | mallum: I'd guess "len" is just strlen(string) there. |
| 22:38:16 | pb_ | mallum: but I guess the only real way is to suck it and see :-| |
| 22:38:22 | mallum | pb_: yep indeed |
| 22:38:34 | mallum | pb_: this utf8 stuff I guess will happen after 0.3 |
| 22:38:41 | pb_ | right |
| 22:38:52 | mallum | the beginnings are there |
| 22:39:18 | mallum | and xft make its alot easier than other X technologies for i18n fonts |
| 22:39:27 | mallum | font display rather |
| 22:39:40 | mallum | but I guess Im realising why pango is there now ... |
| 22:41:15 | mallum | pb_: can you still mail me over that code ? |
| 22:43:11 | lars_g | any way to make the dock apps to conserve theyr place? each time they load they swap aroudn and it drives me utterly uncontrolably mad. |
| 22:43:25 | lars_g | not that I started up sane |
| 22:46:14 | mallum | hmm, they should keep there place ? |
| 22:46:33 | mallum | xstroke plays up a little |
| 22:46:37 | lars_g | yes they should, beign should the keyword |
| 22:47:09 | mallum | they should start up in the order they are in .mbdock |
| 22:47:11 | lars_g | well right now xkbd decided not to load while xstroke swapped with menu and the clock went to the left of the battery monitor and the volume control |
| 22:47:23 | mallum | anything with a -r will align right |
| 22:47:43 | mallum | lars_g: did you exit X by killing it ? |
| 22:47:58 | mallum | lars_g: it safer to kill mbdock first |
| 22:49:42 | lars_g | mallum: I might do mbstop then and add it to /etc/init.d/x stop |
| 22:51:41 | pb_ | mallum: I think I mailed it to you already |
| 22:52:08 | mallum | lars_g: xstroke is probably being started by the /etc/X11/xsession.d scripts so its getting there before mbdock starts up ( therefore first app ). xkbd is not appears cos when X got killed, X killed the dockapp _before_ the dock so it thought it got removed. Im not sure why the clock would have switched places |
| 22:52:42 | mallum | pb_: cool, got it, many thanks ;) |
| 22:53:16 | pb_ | mallum: is this business with killing mbdock cleanly going to cause problems for the gpe session management? |
| 22:53:45 | pb_ | mallum: right now we just tell matchbox to quit, which triggers a more-or-less immediate server reset to get rid of the other clients, presumably including mbdock. |
| 22:54:55 | mallum | pb_: yes good questions |
| 22:55:19 | mallum | pb_: we just have to make sure the dock is killed when we close the session |
| 22:56:00 | lars_g | mallum: how about making the dock spawn from matchbox so when parent dies... son dies |
| 22:56:17 | pb_ | mallum: killed as in SIGTERM or something? That could be easier said than done. |
| 22:56:22 | mallum | lars_g: yes thats what Im thinking |
| 22:56:44 | pb_ | yeah, that would certainly work. |
| 22:56:44 | mallum | pb_: at the moment matchbox is started with the mbstart script |
| 22:57:25 | mallum | pb_: that basically does a mbdock &; matchbox |
| 22:57:31 | pb_ | ah, okay |
| 22:57:48 | pb_ | I thought people were starting mbdock separately. |
| 22:58:14 | pb_ | Suppose it should have occurred to me to wonder how it was getting started on my machine :-) |
| 22:58:32 | mallum | pb_: yeah they can, but it was causing problems as people need dock to launch programs etc |
| 22:59:00 | pb_ | right, yeah |
| 22:59:01 | mallum | pb_: I have another idea which could be an easier fix |
| 22:59:30 | mallum | pb_: I just get the dock to wait a second or two before removing a client from its session list ( after a client dies ) |
| 22:59:55 | mallum | pb_: that kind of solves /etc/init/x stop problems |
| 23:00:08 | mallum | pb_: but not integrating it into gpe session .... |
| 23:00:37 | pb_ | mallum: ahhh, maybe I understood the problem all wrong from the beginning |
| 23:02:00 | pb_ | mallum: is it just that you need to kill mbdock off early so that it doesn't notice its clients going away and assume the user is deliberately removing them from the dock? |
| 23:02:28 | mallum | pb_: yes exactly |
| 23:02:42 | pb_ | mallum: now I get it :-) |
| 23:04:27 | mallum | pb_: its a wierd problem |
| 23:04:33 | pb_ | mallum: mmm |
| 23:04:47 | pb_ | mallum: is it common for docks to do this automatic removing business? |
| 23:05:24 | pb_ | mallum: I had an idea that with most of them you had to do something like right-click on the docked thing and say "Remove" to make them go away permanently. I suppose that's kind of trying with no right button though. |
| 23:06:32 | pb_ | mallum: well, I guess the idea of waiting a second or two will probably fix it in the GPE case as well. |
| 23:06:36 | mallum | pb_: yes I could do it with some kind of messaging between the two ... that me be even simpler |
| 23:07:44 | mallum | pb_: not messaging but the remove option doing the actual remove |
| 23:07:54 | mallum | pb_: from the session info |
| 23:08:41 | pb_ | mallum: yeah, agreed |
| 23:09:10 | mallum | pb_: but then I can guarentee someone will right an app that exits itself |
| 23:09:26 | mallum | pb_: so waiting a second may be best |
| 23:09:55 | pb_ | yet another option, though possibly not a pleasant one, would be for mbdock to watch the exit codes for inferiors that die, and remove them from the dock if they exit with 0 or anything >128. |
| 23:10:25 | mallum | pb_: yeah except I cant get pid's for the dock apps |
| 23:10:54 | mallum | pb_: unless they set _NET_WM_PID property |
| 23:10:54 | pb_ | mmm, right |
| 23:11:13 | pb_ | I suppose the dock apps aren't even guaranteed to be running on the same machine as the WM. |
| 23:11:18 | pb_ | ... as the dock, rather. |
| 23:11:30 | mallum | pb_: indeed, I havn't accounted for that yet either |
| 23:11:50 | pb_ | mallum: let's go with the wait a second plan. |
| 23:11:58 | mallum | pb_: though I do plan to check WM_HOSTNAME ( or whatever ) when I check for WM_COMMAND |
| 23:12:25 | mallum | pb_: I can gurantee jg will pick up on that one |
| 23:12:27 | pb_ | mallum: right, and restart them with rsh or something? |
| 23:12:54 | mallum | pb_: maybe, I dont know if anybody uses rsh anymore :( |
| 23:13:23 | mallum | pb_: X is very flakey about that issue |
| 23:13:42 | pb_ | mallum: indeed :-) The done thing seems to be to provide a MATCHBOX_RSH environment variable that everybody can set to "ssh". |
| 23:14:17 | mallum | pb_: yes |
| 23:14:45 | pb_ | or, I suppose, just refuse to make docked programs from other machines persistent, and leave it up to the user to launch them with whatever machinery is appropriate. |
| 23:15:02 | mallum | pb_: so we should wait a second or only remove for now when remove is selected from the menu |
| 23:15:09 | pb_ | yup |
| 23:15:24 | mallum | pb_: maybe remove is best , may be easiest to implement |
| 23:15:36 | pb_ | fine with me |
| 23:15:57 | mallum | pb_: working out the best way for this sort of thing is going to happen over time when we find out how people use the thing |
| 23:16:14 | pb_ | mallum: agreed |
| 23:17:34 | mallum | pb_: theres alot of new stuff in 0.3 that probably wont be 100% till 0.4 |
| 23:17:43 | mallum | pb_: I need to mention that a bit |
| 23:17:51 | pb_ | :-) |
| 23:18:39 | mallum | but I dont really wanna hold off much longer for a 0. |
| 23:18:40 | mallum | 0.3 |
| 23:18:53 | mallum | best to get people using it so I can get feedback |
| 23:20:01 | pb_ | sure, get it out there. |
| 23:20:14 | pb_ | most people seem to be having pretty good experiences so far |
| 23:22:06 | lars_g | hmmmm |
| 23:22:18 | lars_g | xstroke is not added to .mbdock |
| 23:22:41 | lars_g | mallum: woudl ti be too bad an Idea to make .mbdock readonly to save my current? |
| 23:22:58 | mallum | lars_g: should be fine |
| 23:23:04 | mallum | lars_g: or just make a copy of it |
| 23:23:15 | pb_ | see you later folks |
| 23:23:21 | mallum | pb_: g;night |
| 23:24:12 | mallum | bed for me too |
| 23:24:19 | mallum | night lars_g |
| 23:24:27 | mallum | keep toyin g with matchbox ! |
