| 07:33:59 | dc_ | morning |
| 07:34:01 | dc_ | hrm |
| 07:34:04 | dc_ | gnome2 is dodgy |
| 11:19:08 | spung | mallum: why don't pop-up windows have borders? |
| 11:20:19 | spung | mallum: oh, hi :) |
| 11:20:32 | spung | mallum: it looks pretty ugly, http://gpe.handhelds.org/images/gpe-soundbite.png |
| 11:37:48 | mallum | spung: hmm, hadn't noticed that, the theme sets the window border to 0 |
| 11:37:59 | mallum | spung: I'll add a check and set it to one on dialog windows |
| 11:39:10 | mallum | spung: ok I fixed it |
| 11:45:28 | spung | mallum: :) |
| 11:45:40 | spung | border=0 in normal windows is nice tho |
| 11:45:59 | mallum | spung: yeah I keep it as it is for normal wins |
| 11:46:11 | mallum | spung: just on the dialogs if it = 0 then make it 1 |
| 11:46:17 | mallum | brb |
| 12:12:03 | spung | mallum_shops: can we make the window decorations thiner? as well as the dock? |
| 12:17:56 | spung | mallum_shops: oh and what is that thing in the middle of the new dock? i'm not sure what it's for... |
| 14:12:57 | mallum_shops | spung: did you read the readme ? |
| 14:49:03 | mallum | spung: ? |
| 15:33:20 | moray | maybe spung's gone off in embarrassment for not having RTFM? ;) |
| 15:36:21 | spung | heh |
| 15:36:43 | spung | mallum: people are not supposed to read docs for that kind of things |
| 15:36:50 | spung | it's supposed to be natural |
| 15:44:32 | mallum | spung: not when the release is marked experimental |
| 15:44:46 | mallum | spung: the best place to hide something is in the documentation |
| 15:46:10 | spung | ah ok :) |
| 15:46:15 | spung | mallum: anyway, i read the README |
| 15:46:35 | spung | mallum: and i did figure how to make the dock thiner :) so far so good |
| 15:46:57 | spung | mallum: the window decorations.. i suppose themes can do that |
| 15:47:14 | spung | mallum: but that thing in the middle of the dock... that i couldn't figure out |
| 15:47:20 | mallum | spung: yep your a genius |
| 15:47:25 | spung | lol |
| 15:47:39 | moray | spung: if you imagine that the thing only appeared when the dock was over-full, would that help? |
| 15:47:56 | spung | yeah maybe |
| 15:48:04 | mallum | moray: yeah thats what I've got todo |
| 15:48:08 | spung | to either show the ones on the left |
| 15:48:13 | spung | or right |
| 15:48:15 | spung | right? |
| 15:48:29 | mallum | moray: I just left it in there by defualt so people could play with it |
| 15:48:29 | spung | no? |
| 15:48:40 | moray | spung: yes, I think that's mallum's intention :) |
| 15:48:52 | mallum | moray: and confuse spung of course ;) |
| 15:48:56 | spung | mallum: heh |
| 15:49:03 | moray | mallum: sure, I assumed that disappearing could be added later |
| 15:49:25 | mallum | I just changed minisys back to a square |
| 15:49:29 | spung | mallum: i'm not sure that's the best way to do it |
| 15:49:40 | spung | mallum: did you think of some alternatives to that? |
| 15:50:07 | spung | oh well, it's pretty nice tho :) |
| 15:50:10 | mallum | spung: sorry, to what ? |
| 15:50:17 | spung | mallum: that thing in the dock |
| 15:50:24 | mallum | spung: the slider ? |
| 15:50:27 | spung | yeah |
| 15:50:46 | mallum | spung: well the other way was have the dock grow in size when it gets full |
| 15:50:53 | spung | not good |
| 15:50:55 | spung | :) |
| 15:51:26 | mallum | spung: yeah thats what I though. I though the slider would be a little more fun and innovative and still keep sapce usage down |
| 15:51:28 | spung | mallum: adding dock apps (or something like that) to the top of the windows might be nice too |
| 15:51:39 | mallum | spung: I wont be doing that |
| 15:52:17 | spung | mallum: it's just that the button to display the desktop would be nice there |
| 15:52:20 | mallum | spung: but then again, you never know ... |
| 15:52:32 | mallum | spung: thats easy to make |
| 15:52:48 | mallum | spung: but I havn't seen any desktops yet ... ;) |
| 15:52:50 | spung | mallum: ohh.. will the desktop app show up in the task list? |
| 15:53:03 | mallum | spung: no it shouldn't do, but it may |
| 15:53:09 | mallum | spung: at the moment |
| 15:53:17 | mallum | spung: no it wont actually |
| 15:53:34 | mallum | spung: maybe we could have a special desktop entry there ot something |
| 15:55:00 | spung | mallum: buttons on matchbox like OPIE/Qtopia/WinCE might be nice too, i don't know |
| 15:55:33 | moray | spung: which kind of buttons do you mean? |
| 15:55:36 | mallum | spung: you can do that now via the themes |
| 15:55:47 | spung | mallum: you can add new buttons with themes? |
| 15:55:59 | mallum | spung: yep |
| 15:56:01 | spung | moray: like.. Save or Cancel |
| 15:56:15 | mallum | moray: cancel is just a close button |
| 15:56:25 | moray | spung: on the window borders? I actually think that's Evil, Bad and Wrong, and should be avoided... |
| 15:56:33 | spung | mallum: well then.. it's a theme thing adding the button to show the desktop! |
| 15:56:38 | moray | people are used to buttons being *inside* windows |
| 15:56:39 | spung | moray: heh... if you think so :) |
| 15:56:48 | mallum | spung: yep it propbably will be |
| 15:56:56 | moray | I find they have no idea where to click if the OK button is hidden where the close button would be |
| 15:57:05 | mallum | moray: I agree with you on that |
| 15:57:12 | spung | moray: yeah, guess so |
| 15:57:27 | moray | I can see it's meant to save space, but still... |
| 15:57:34 | mallum | I dont know why opie copied CE on that. Its one of the dumbest things about CE |
| 15:57:43 | spung | yeah |
| 15:57:52 | spung | mallum: what's really dumb about CE is no task list |
| 15:57:54 | moray | mallum: because QT was meant to be a cheaper ripoff of CE? ;) |
| 15:58:05 | mallum | Appertly kernel messages appear over the top of Opies dislay MUAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 15:58:05 | moray | (QPE I mean) |
| 15:58:12 | moray | yes, I was amused by that |
| 15:58:26 | mallum | spung: you have opie right ? |
| 15:58:33 | moray | it's great the competitive spirit on the mailing list these days... ;) |
| 15:58:42 | spung | mallum: yes.. i need a PIM :) |
| 15:58:51 | mallum | spung: fill scap up with crap opie screenshots of kernel messgaes appearing over the top ;) |
| 15:59:04 | spung | mallum: lolol |
| 15:59:13 | spung | mallum: sure :) how do i do that? |
| 15:59:30 | mallum | spung: to take a screen grab ? |
| 15:59:35 | moray | spung: you have to remove the console=/dev/ttyS0 or something from your kernel options |
| 15:59:37 | spung | mallum: no... the kernel messages |
| 15:59:41 | spung | ahh |
| 15:59:55 | spung | lol |
| 15:59:59 | moray | because Opie doesn't actually make a new virtual console, just starts drawing on the one that's there already |
| 16:00:47 | moray | mallum: possibly someone should investigate compiling the Opie stuff for X actually, just so we can say 'run GPE and you can run your Opie stuff too'? |
| 16:01:02 | moray | (= 'run X and ...') |
| 16:02:01 | moray | they claim you can run X stuff under Opie occasionally, but AFAIK that requires you to run the VNC X server and a VNC client |
| 16:04:27 | mallum | moray: I think it needs the qcop stuff ported |
| 16:06:42 | moray | mallum: I don't know, I just remember seeing QT propaganda saying it was a compilation option to have an X target instead |
| 16:06:52 | moray | mallum: if it's not true, that would be interesting to know for sure too... |
| 16:30:04 | mallum | hmm, anyone here know perl-tk ? |
| 16:41:54 | dc_ | afternoon |
| 16:42:03 | dc_ | mallum: heh, I've decided to try and compile gnome2 from source :} |
| 16:42:20 | dc_ | mallum: the experimental debs just wern't working :/ |
| 16:53:40 | mallum | dc_: yar I have compiled garnome a couple of time with no probs ( x86 and powerpc ) |
| 16:53:45 | mallum | dc_: just takes for ever.... |
| 17:03:04 | dc_ | mallum: :) |
| 17:03:16 | dc_ | watches chobits while it compiles |
| 17:03:27 | moray | I think I left it overnight or something when I tried a GARNOME |
| 17:04:58 | dc_ | :} |
| 17:05:39 | mallum | dc_: I really wouldn't like to compile it on ARM |
| 17:05:46 | mallum | it would take days |
| 17:05:46 | dc_ | heh |
| 17:05:51 | dc_ | months :} |
| 17:05:57 | moray | dc_: don't joke... |
| 17:06:36 | moray | wonders if he can get the GIMP to do something different about showing transparency, since the colours it's using for that occur too much in the foreground layers... |
| 17:27:33 | dctanner_ | oh dear. |
| 17:28:05 | dc__ | mallum: when I've compiled gnome2, what do I do about any gnome2 apps from debian that I want to install that depend on a gnome2 deb? |
| 17:28:42 | moray | dc__: are there any? I thought there were only a couple of GNOME 2 things in total in Debian so far... |
| 17:29:11 | dc__ | moray: well, I can imagine more will come soon |
| 17:29:21 | mallum | dc__: not alot you can do really :{ |
| 17:29:41 | dc__ | moray: is there a way to forcefully tell apt-get that I've already installed a package? |
| 17:29:46 | moray | dc__: at that point the other GNOME 2 packages might be working though... |
| 17:30:07 | moray | dc__: the only at all sane way would be to make a dummy package of the appropriate name |
| 17:31:05 | dc__ | ar. |
| 17:31:12 | dc__ | maby I should just try and install it from deb then :/ |
| 17:32:43 | dc__ | do you know if all the gnome2 debs are postfixed with 2? |
| 17:32:54 | moray | argh: |
| 17:32:56 | moray | # update-menus |
| 17:32:56 | moray | /usr/bin/update-menus: /etc/menu-methods/CVS: permission denied |
| 17:33:07 | dc__ | :{ |
| 17:33:08 | moray | I was wondering where my space was going, too |
| 17:33:56 | moray | dc__: I think so far most of the actual programs have a 2, and I expect that's a vague policy so that they don't have to overwrite GNOME 1 stuff in the archive unnecessarily |
| 17:34:47 | mallum | pub time |
| 17:50:31 | dc__ | brb |
| 17:54:16 | spung | [18:11] * moray wonders if he can get the GIMP to do something different about showing transparency, since the colours it's using for that occur too much in the foreground layers... |
| 17:54:29 | spung | moray: create a background layer with a different color |
| 17:54:30 | spung | ? |
| 17:55:06 | moray | spung: well, yes, but I just wanted to edit a few pixels in an icon... |
| 17:55:12 | moray | (done now) |
| 17:57:34 | spung | :) |
| 18:18:33 | dc_ | hum |
| 18:18:38 | dc_ | it seems gnome-panel and gnome-terminal wont start |
| 18:18:43 | dc_ | moray: they just sit there |
| 18:21:31 | moray | these are the ones you've compiled? |
| 18:22:58 | dc_ | no |
| 18:23:03 | dc_ | from experimental :/ |
| 18:23:06 | dc_ | debian :/ |
| 18:23:19 | dc_ | deb http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ ../project/experimental main |
| 18:23:21 | dc_ | hmmmm! |
| 18:23:24 | dc_ | lemme try the main sources |
| 18:25:47 | moray | hm, have you looked what they're trying to do when they won't start? |
| 18:26:24 | dc_ | well |
| 18:26:25 | dc_ | how..> |
| 18:26:25 | dc_ | ? |
| 18:27:30 | moray | strace / ltrace ? |
| 18:28:14 | dc_ | writev(13, [{"GIOP\1\2\1\0\224\1\0\0", 12}, {"$\370\377\277\1\0\0\0\0\0L:\30\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\340\272\f"..., 404}], 2) = 416 |
| 18:28:16 | dc_ | poll( |
| 18:28:16 | dc_ | hrmmmmm |
| 18:28:41 | moray | you want to look what it's trying to write that into (which would be higher up) |
| 18:29:06 | dc_ | connect(13, {sin_family=AF_UNIX, path="/tmp/orbit-dctanner/linc-3c77b6cf5e79e"}, 40) = 0 |
| 18:29:19 | dc_ | open("/tmp/orbit-dctanner/bonobo-activation-register.lock", O_RDWR|O_CREAT, 0700) = 12 |
| 18:30:01 | dc_ | hrm |
| 18:30:06 | dc_ | lots of orbit files in /tmp |
| 18:31:13 | dc_ | ind ebian |
| 18:31:15 | dc_ | in debian |
| 18:31:27 | dc_ | do the debs actualy come from the new pool directory? |
| 18:31:45 | dc_ | because there's a gnome-vfs2 folder and deb in there, but apt-get won't see it/ |
| 18:32:25 | moray | dc_: the pool directories' names are the names of source packages - what's the package called? |
| 18:32:34 | moray | it may only exist on some architectures, e.g., as well... |
| 18:32:36 | dc_ | gnome-vfs2 |
| 18:32:42 | dc_ | ack. |
| 18:33:28 | dc_ | ah ha |
| 18:33:32 | moray | ? |
| 18:34:06 | dc_ | bugger |
| 18:34:57 | dc_ | only powerpc binaries. |
| 18:34:58 | dc_ | :{ |
| 18:35:03 | dc_ | I want gnome2 ! |
| 18:35:05 | dc_ | :{ |
| 18:36:47 | dc_ | brb |
| 20:06:07 | moray | hm, gpe-appmgr appears to be ignoring the second of two menu items in a menu file |
| 21:14:50 | dc_ | well |
| 21:14:56 | dc_ | that was nothing but a waste of time |
| 21:15:12 | dc_ | maby gnome2 is best suited for another day |
| 22:59:59 | mallum | moooo |
| 23:20:37 | moray | hello mallum |
| 23:21:38 | mallum | hey moray |
| 23:21:45 | mallum | are you a debian developer ? |
| 23:23:29 | moray | mallum: no, though I've occasionally planned to do that |
| 23:24:20 | mallum | moray: I just got my assigned my New Maintainer manager thing and he's askedd me a zillion questions |
| 23:24:37 | moray | ah, ok - is this the surveying your beliefs thing? |
| 23:24:43 | mallum | moray: yeah |
| 23:25:03 | mallum | moray: except theres questions about the developer reference too. |
| 23:25:14 | mallum | moray: there must be 40 questions here |
| 23:25:24 | moray | ok, I've certainly seen things that looked like they would be a hassle to fill in ;) |
| 23:25:56 | moray | like, it's generally fairly clear the kind of things you'd want to say, but it's still a lot of effort to write appropriate responses |
| 23:26:41 | mallum | yeah this is a few hours work here |
| 23:27:40 | moray | of course the correct answer would have been to get in a few years ago... :) |
| 23:28:08 | moray | (before they added the stuff, and before it ground to a halt before that) |
