irclog2html for #gnu-kbsd on 20060215

01:52.45Cody`Finally getting to grab the iso :)
02:15.45*** join/#gnu-kbsd asac_ (n=asac@debian/developer/asac)
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10:22.16nyulooks like glibc-bsd-devel is lagging ~48h
10:24.18nyui aunnounced that 6.0's been uploaded to unreleased yesterday, so i guess it'll arrive tomorrow
10:24.32nyumaybe we should move this to lists.d.o ?
10:24.48braindmgnyu: I've lost some of your mails to that list I think
10:28.19nyuwhich ones?
10:29.04nyuazeem: please disregard what I said about the room.  I most likely won't be able to attend
10:29.13nyuI'll be busy that weekend
10:29.15azeemoh, ok :(
10:29.43nyumaybe I can change it at last time, but in principle don't count me on
10:43.38aurel32azeem: about the room for FOSDEM, are you expecting to have a room soon?
10:44.10azeemI hope so
10:46.00azeemaurel32: you're just staying sat->sun, right?
10:46.59aurel32azeem: yes
12:16.57CIA-1203ps-guest * r1202 10/trunk/glibc-2.3-head/NOTES: * update "make check" status
12:31.21tarzeauaurel32: would you mind having mrtg and webalizer on io?
12:33.43aurel32tarzeau: yes you can install them
12:39.43tarzeauok webalizer is installed, no snmpd available for mrtg...
12:42.11tarzeauaurel32: i've turned on hostname lookups for apache
12:42.22tarzeauaurel32: you might want to link to the /webalizer page from the main page
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14:17.40CIA-1203rmh * r1203 10/trunk/kfreebsd-6/debian/patches/002_glibc_dev_isp.diff: Add note with upstream status.
15:44.41CIA-1203rmh * r1204 10/trunk/kfreebsd-6/debian/patches/002_glibc_dev_isp.diff: 002_glibc_dev_isp.diff: Remove isp.c part (not really needed). Add note about ispvar.h.
15:45.39CIA-1203rmh * r1205 10/trunk/kfreebsd-6/debian/patches/003_glibc_dev_aicasm.diff: 003_glibc_dev_aicasm.diff: Switch to <bsd/queue.h>.
15:46.00nyuI think 003_glibc_dev_aicasm.diff is ready to be sent upstream.  Anyone wants to review it?
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18:01.37tarzeaui can't see no freebsd6 stuff in unreleased
18:02.49nyutarzeau: http://kfreebsd-gnu.debian.net/debian/pool-kfreebsd-i386/main/k/kfreebsd-6/
18:03.17tarzeaucan i have multiple kernels now?
18:03.25tarzeaui don't have grub here, it's the bsd boot loader
18:08.11tarzeaumy machine will reboot if i install that?
18:08.20tarzeaui mean it will boot again?
18:11.00*** part/#gnu-kbsd str3y (n=mary@59.176.27.187)
18:11.40braindmgnyu: the bsd/queue.h change is wrong
18:11.50braindmgnyu: you are assuming that glibc == libbsd ...
18:18.22nyubraindmg: how about #ifndef BSD ?
18:18.35nyubtw, I have a patch for mini-dak.  would you have a look? :)
18:20.14CIA-1203rmh * r1206 10/trunk/web/patches/upstream-only/mini-dak_testing.diff: Add mini-dak patch to generate testing Packages files.
18:21.07nyuI've put it in svn.  I could only test the Packages file generation itself, but I've taken care to integrate it well within the mini-dak framework
18:21.54nyubraindmg: or maybe #ifndef __FreeBSD__
18:23.29braindmgnyu: yes looking (mini-dak)
18:23.38braindmgnyu: well you have to check if libbsd is available
18:23.58braindmgnot bsd or not freebsd does not imply libbsd ;)
18:24.06nyuwith their build system that can be crazy :)
18:24.33nyuthey're not using autoconf precisely
18:25.10nyuwell it doesn't matter.  it's just one of the patches
18:25.54nyui'll put it on hold untill we have a clearer idea on how we're going to solve the sys/queue.h issue
18:27.03nyubraindmg: oh, I could not find how to get a path to the local debian/ dir though :)
18:28.34nyutarzeau: no you can't have multiple kernels yet
18:28.48nyutarzeau: it'll boot again, but it won't work perfectly
18:28.52nyuPTYs won't work
18:29.48nyubut it works well enough to setup network and apt-get a 5.x kernel ;)
18:30.24nyubbiaw
18:36.46braindmghmm there's a script who collects unstable Packages lists already
18:37.26braindmgthey are on the cache dir (the uncompressed ones)
18:37.46braindmgthe problem with this patch is that it will not work ;)
18:38.10braindmgnyu: mini-dak does not keep state
18:38.24braindmgnyu: and testing needs to be taken into accound when obsoleting
18:38.39braindmgaccount even
18:38.53braindmgI'd rather go with dak than try to support testing
18:41.46tarzeauhaha, i guess i'll keep 5.x
19:16.28nyubraindmg: why doesn't obsoleting take testing into account?
19:16.43nyuin crontab i've set it to generate Packages just before obsoleting
19:17.06nyuyou don't need to keep state
19:17.33nyutarzeau: if you don't plan to debug the problems, 6.x is not worthy yet
19:17.52tarzeauno i'm just a user
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20:10.50braindmgnyu: yes I have, and that will just create the packages files, and then remove the packages from testing
20:11.04braindmg(it will only work in case the version in unstable and testing is ==)
20:11.20braindmgnyu: because it uses the .changes info to get on which suite it goes
20:11.33braindmgand uploaded packages are either unstable, unreleased, or experimental
20:11.35nyuI'm missing something
20:11.44nyuhow does obsoleting work?
20:11.45braindmgtesting is just a state in katie db
20:12.27nyui thought obsoleting didn't have to care about which dist a package belongs to
20:13.12braindmgthen how would you do it? ;)
20:13.15nyuthis is how i assumed it works:
20:13.47nyurun through the Packages file for each dist (unstable, unreleased and testing)
20:13.58nyuonly remove files that aren't referenced in any list
20:14.08braindmgand how do you generate those lists?
20:14.23nyuunstable and unreleased from the .changes files
20:14.38nyutesting from that hack of mine ;)
20:15.36braindmgwell packages files are a subproduct
20:15.49braindmgotherwise I'd have to check for each package all Packages files
20:15.56braindmgI have a master changes list file
20:16.04nyuI see
20:16.06braindmgwith all packages from each dist
20:16.24braindmgand a package cannot be in more than one
20:16.37braindmgotherwise it has to be removed depending on which ordering
20:16.49braindmgunstable < unreleased < experimental
20:17.00nyuwell, with testing present there would be the possibility of a package being more than once
20:17.02braindmgif unstable has a package bigger than unr or exp those get removed
20:17.11braindmgif unr has bigger than exp exp gets removed
20:17.24nyucan't you exclude testing from that part of the process?
20:17.41braindmgtesting does not exist =)
20:17.53nyulike, master list file -> generate unstable & unreleased -> obsolete -> testing
20:17.55braindmgthe info I'm handling only takes into account real suites from .changes
20:18.55braindmg(I'm eating something oily so may not be able to type for a while, w/o making of my keyboard a mess ;)
20:19.04nyuhaha
20:20.36nyuso, how about turning Packages files into something mandatory rather than a subproduct?
20:21.02nyuthen make archive-obsolete check these individualy and be able to tell the difference between unstable, unreleased, etc
20:21.23nyuit isn't always a good idea that an unstable upload obsoletes unreleased or vice-versa anyway
20:22.41nyuuhm wait
20:22.53nyumy hack has a dessign problem too
20:23.47nyuwhen packages disappear from the unstable Packages, they won't be reachable for testing
20:24.02nyueven if archive-obsolete doesn't remove them
20:24.50*** join/#gnu-kbsd otavio (n=otavio@debian/developer/otavio)
20:24.52nyuhow about making it something external?  I could cook up something that builds .changes files for testing
20:25.10nyuonly uploading the .changes files should be enough i think
20:25.23nyubut still archive-obsolete would need to check dists separately
20:26.43braindmg* using Packages files, will make mini-dak more complex
20:27.16braindmg* mini-dak assumes there's no .changes file will shared content with other .changes file
20:27.25braindmgwhy do you think I did the pool splitting? ;)
20:27.46nyui see.. major redessign involved
20:28.35braindmgwell it's called *mini*-dak for a reason
20:28.56braindmgyou want dak, and I'm not going to rewrite mini-dak into dak, that'd silly =)
20:29.07nyuheh
20:29.12nyuhow about reprepro? :)
20:29.19braindmgnyu: consider mini-dak as a cheap archive soft, which gives most of dak features, being stateless
20:29.35braindmgso I can regenerate the whole archive with just the pakages and .changes files
20:29.47braindmgnyu: why do you need testing so desperately?
20:29.56braindmgI'd just wait to be included in debian
20:30.09nyuthat won't give us testing, only unstable
20:30.21braindmgso more in my favour =)
20:30.33braindmgit will be a pain maintaining testing outside
20:30.41nyuuhm true
20:31.00braindmgi'd say, just work on the port so it can have a real testing in debian
20:31.04nyui'll think how it can be done outside
20:31.08braindmgless work for everyone
20:31.37braindmgnyu: you'll have to handle cases where packages in testing are not in sync with what we have built
20:31.41braindmgand the like
20:31.49nyui thought about that already
20:31.53nyuit's not a big problem
20:32.01braindmgand do you migrate packages from unreleased to testing?
20:32.05nyuno
20:32.08braindmgi would not do that for example
20:32.18nyuagreed.. it's a bad idea
20:32.23braindmgthen testing will not be a complete distro anyway
20:32.31nyuthey'd be just added without migration
20:32.48nyunot all of them would be installable, but unreleased is a dirty hack anyway
20:32.53braindmgreally I'd spend the time fixing the real issure
20:32.55braindmgissues even
20:33.04nyuuhm there aren't much issues now
20:33.25nyujust get maintainers to apply patches for base
20:33.26braindmgwe don't have 100% archive built =)
20:33.36braindmgno reply from adrian yet
20:33.40nyuand wait for ftp-masters to add the port
20:33.49nyuwe don't need 100% to get unstable!
20:33.53braindmgI've to resend the patches rediffed against the autoconf version thought
20:33.56nyunot even for testing
20:34.06braindmgnyu: yeah, but it'd be cool to have =P
20:34.28nyualso, the amount of built packages tends to increase when maintainers update libtool and we get more libraries -> more build-deps
20:34.43nyuOTOH, a testing archive would help a lot
20:34.49nyumaking the port popular
20:35.26braindmgdunno, I think having it in debian will make it way more popular
20:35.43nyuyes, but we can't speed that up now
20:35.53nyuwe met the requirements
20:36.05nyujust need to wait till they add kfreebsd-i386
20:36.17braindmgno, till the fix the archive
20:36.24braindmgnot even amd64 is in :)
20:36.30nyuyeah, whatever
20:36.42nyuneed to wait till they do whatever is needed and then add kfreebsd-i386
20:37.15nyubraindmg: ok you've convinced me that testing can't be inserted in gnuab
20:37.23braindmgI've added ls-lR generation to the thingy (cannot remember if I told)
20:37.25nyui'll think how it can be done externaly ok? =)
20:37.29braindmgheh
20:39.05xsun_Debian GNU/NetBSD project is stopped or someone is working on it?
20:39.16nyuxsun_: stopped (both of them)
20:39.28nyubraindmg: btw you can nuke knetbsd-i386 as well
20:39.44nyui forgot it's not the same pool as netbsd-i386
20:41.04nyubraindmg: how much does a mirror of kfreebsd-i386 unstable take?
20:41.12CIA-1203guillem * r1207 10/trunk/libbsd/ (ChangeLog include/bsd/cdefs.h): Disable __unused, it conflicts with a struct member in a Linux header.
20:41.23nyuargh :)
20:41.31nyuyeah, I remember this
20:41.32braindmgyeah :<
20:41.59braindmgI had patched ufsutils due to that, and cannot remember if me or bal00 reintroduced that in libbsd
20:42.03aurel32nyu: I am not sure the patch you post for tracking testing will be really useable
20:42.18braindmgaurel32: it's not =)
20:42.20nyuaurel32: the mini-dak one?
20:42.31aurel32nyu: I mean with some packages being in unreleased, you will need to also track those ones
20:42.32nyuit won't work.  braindmg just explained to me :)
20:42.42aurel32nyu: if not, testing won't be self-contained
20:42.46aurel32ah ok
20:42.53nyuunreleased is not a problem though
20:43.03nyuit can be added to sources.list along with testing
20:43.04braindmg^ backlog ;)
20:43.22nyuthe problem is in the gnuab side.  the client side is safe AFAIK
20:43.29xsun_I have some doubts about how networking is implemented under kfreebsd. I mean, debian works with /etc/network/interfaces and this is very different of FreeBSD networking isnt?
20:43.37nyuyep
20:43.42aurel32nyu: doing such will probably make some program uninstallable
20:43.50aurel32nyu: I am not sure it is gnuab
20:43.51braindmgI may finish libbsd today...
20:43.54nyuxsun_: our ifupdown is adapted to work with FreeBSD ifconfig
20:44.05nyuxsun_: so basicaly you get debian-like network setup
20:44.07aurel32nyu: until we have all package in unstable (ie no unreleased), it may causes some problems
20:44.21xsun_nyu: hmm, great
20:44.30nyuaurel32: yes, but unreleased is only for hacks, so I think it's acceptable if some packages can't be installed
20:44.31xsun_nyu: what about the system init?
20:44.36nyuaurel32: they need to be removed anyway
20:44.39braindmgaurel32: one question about libfreebsd, why are the __foo symbols exported?
20:44.40xsun_it uses update-rc.d?
20:44.41nyuxsun_: debian
20:44.52nyuxsun_: it's all debian except a few utils like mount or ifconfig
20:45.00xsun_got it
20:45.56nyuaurel32: theoricaly, if the base packages were all in unstable, you could run a system without unreleased.  the only downside being that you can't install some non-essential things because they aren't present
20:46.24nyuOTOH, the packages in base can be updated in a mixed testing-unreleased set.  e.g. libc0.1 won't drag anything else
20:47.18nyuand even if one of them couldn't, that just means it'll be on hold, which is almost the same as using a package from unreleased (on hold untill it's rebuilt manualy, or untill it migrates to unstable)
20:47.22xsun_knetbsd uses glibc like kfreebsd?
20:47.50nyuxsun_: there were two ports based on knetbsd, one with glibc and one without
20:48.21nyuboth are dead now.  but the glibc-based one can be re-instated easily since most of the work done for gnu/kfreebsd is very similar
20:48.39nyubraindmg: how much does a mirror of kfreebsd-i386 unstable take?
20:48.43xsun_hmm, interesting
20:49.44xsun_netbsd porting dead for some specific reason or the developers just hang up of the project?
20:49.55nyuyou'd just need to forth-port the sysdeps fixes into our up-to-date sysdeps tree, and figure out what to do with threads
20:50.11aurel32braindmg: I don't remember, let me have a look
20:50.44nyuxsun_: basicaly, I moved on to work on kfreebsd-i386 which had more people in it already
20:50.51braindmgnyu: I don't know I don't have it split
20:51.11nyubraindmg: ok what about du -hs pool-kfreebsd-i386 ?
20:51.19braindmgthat's another thing ;)
20:51.23nyuok ok
20:51.27nyubut it gives me an idea
20:51.53braindmg6.8G    pool-kfreebsd-i386
20:52.00nyuxsun_: and since most of the effort is shared, it's just waiting for someone to ressucitate it
20:52.07nyubraindmg: k thanks
20:52.09xsun_nyu: I see
20:52.25nyutarzeau, aurel32: do you mind me stuffing ~6.8G into io?
20:52.48nyuonly for testing testing purposes
20:52.54nyu(testing testing != testing)
20:52.57aurel32braindmg: don't know exactly, I think they could be removed
20:53.11braindmgaurel32: just make them static and remove from Versions
20:53.18braindmg(I'd say ;)
20:53.29braindmgaurel32: do you mind if I do? or you do?
20:53.31aurel32nyu: for my point of view it is not a problem if you don't want to setup a mirror
20:53.41aurel32braindmg: you can do it
20:53.54nyuaurel32: i'd like to setup a mirror, but only for my own testing purposes
20:53.58aurel32nyu: but you should ask tarzeau about the network traffic
20:54.12nyuok
20:54.16aurel32nyu: I don't understand. What are you trying to do?
20:54.19nyuonly incoming traffic will be significant
20:54.41nyuaurel32: create a script that can generate a testing pool from an external host (i.e. gnuab)
20:55.21aurel32braindmg: note that libfreebsd is now provided by freebsd-lbis
20:55.28aurel32s/lbis/libs/
20:55.50aurel32braindmg: I will remove the old libfreebsd
20:55.56nyuaurel32: when we have that, it'd work equaly on ftp-master and gnuab
20:57.51nyuuhm actualy, i might be able to do it localy
20:58.04nyulet's see if i can grab some disk space ;)
21:00.14braindmgaurel32: oh ok
21:00.20aurel32braindmg: no I am wrong
21:00.25braindmgaurel32: where's the source for libfreebsd?
21:00.29aurel32I don't understand anymore
21:00.53braindmgyes freebsd-libs provides the dh files but the source is not there =)
21:00.54aurel32well ignore what I said I think libfreebsd is the source
21:00.59braindmgok
21:01.10aurel32if I remeber I split out libfreebsd from understand anymore
21:01.15braindmgalthough I'll break the abi ...
21:01.15aurel32oops
21:01.46aurel32if I remember I have split out libfreebsd from freebsd-libs because it could be compiled on linux or other arches
21:01.56braindmg(I'd not do that for debian sid thought ;)
21:02.00aurel32ie it don't need a kernel support
21:02.09braindmgit does not build on linux thought
21:02.24braindmgs/thought/though/
21:02.54braindmgit has #include <machine/foo.h> stuff for example
21:02.56CIA-1203aurel32 * r1208 10/trunk/freebsd-libs/debian/ (libfreebsd-dev.install libfreebsd0.install): Remove libfreebsd0.install libfreebsd-dev.install, this library no has separate source
21:03.49aurel32yes true
21:04.10aurel32so maybe we could merge it back to freebsd-libs ?
21:04.12CIA-1203guillem * r1209 10/trunk/libfreebsd/libfreebsd-dev.install: Remove crufty file.
21:04.45braindmgaurel32: who's using libfreebsd?
21:06.29aurel32libkvm
21:07.45aurel32and also libcam
21:07.53aurel32but not as a shared object
21:08.33nyubraindmg: it's 4392 MiB
21:08.59nyudebmirror dixit
21:13.31CIA-1203aurel32 * r1210 10/trunk/freebsd-libs/debian/ (control rules):
21:13.32CIA-12Compile fix for libkvm
21:13.32CIA-12libcam0 don't need to depend on libfreebsd0
21:25.37*** join/#gnu-kbsd jharrisonwk (n=jharriso@a24-244-140-15.maxil.com)
22:48.54xsun_I see that rc.conf was not excluded from kfreebsd
22:49.19xsun_Is it rc.conf used actually?
23:17.30Cody`hmm anyone know if it's just more or can the default apache setup not be accessed outside the box?
23:47.42Cody`hmm anyone around?

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