| 01:35.27 | *** join/#gllug Armand (~martin@cpc17-haye16-2-0-cust427.haye.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 08:01.33 | Leeds | mmm... afternoon banana |
| 08:16.12 | morsing | Leeds: For your wife? |
| 09:28.46 | crilly | Morning. |
| 09:29.38 | morsing | crilly! |
| 09:29.46 | morsing | Has anyone here completed GTA IV? |
| 09:30.05 | crilly | Hey morsing :) |
| 09:30.26 | crilly | Not I. Not much of a gamer, but when I build my new workstation I am planning ontrying out PCI pass-through to a VM for gaming. |
| 09:32.53 | morsing | ... The PS4 is coming out |
| 09:40.13 | *** join/#gllug chrisp (~wibble@host86-182-197-53.range86-182.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:41.09 | crilly | Nah screw that |
| 09:41.25 | crilly | We have a PS3, but I enver play on it after compeleting and rinsing Skyrim |
| 09:57.45 | crilly | yaMatt: Have you sorted the date out yet? Have you? Have you? What about now? |
| 10:00.22 | *** join/#gllug ess_tee_u (~NULL@host81-158-50-178.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:02.33 | morsing | crilly: Was Skirym better than Oblivion? |
| 10:02.38 | morsing | Skyrim |
| 10:16.08 | crilly | By far. The ability to dual wield weapons and especially spells is epic |
| 10:20.35 | morsing | But the story? |
| 10:20.47 | morsing | Is it worth playing Oblivion still? |
| 10:23.35 | crilly | Yeah, finish Oblivion. Skyrim is set before Obvilion (a few thousand years). |
| 10:24.09 | crilly | The story is good - basically dragons used to rule before man. Man didn't have a voice, so the Gods gave man the dragon voice. |
| 10:24.16 | crilly | The rest you'll have to play and find out :) |
| 10:25.03 | morsing | You think the Skyrim story is better then Oblivion? |
| 10:25.54 | crilly | I think they're on-par and equally as good. To be honest though, I play open-ended RPGs for the exploration - there's nothing like becoming the best assassin in town and going around wiping out villages of people without anyone knowing :P |
| 10:27.58 | morsing | crilly: Really? I don't get it... I've only played a little bit of each and I simple don't see the potential for such character development. Do I just need to keep at it? I find exploring a bit boring, people don't exactly interact a lot |
| 10:29.14 | crilly | In Skyrim they interact a lot more than in Oblivion. Try joining the Dark Brother or the Thieves Guild |
| 10:30.47 | morsing | Ok, I'm in contact with the Thieves Guild but don't really like the prospect of joining. Does it counteract joining other parts or does it not matter? |
| 10:33.21 | crilly | Sadly not, but I reckon it should. If you join the DB, I reckon it should filter to the TG and they should ban you from joining, but it doesn't. Don't forget, you can make up your own game, like joining the DB and then killing the TG members. The problem is, you can't kill characters which are classed as part of a critical story, which is annoying |
| 10:37.10 | yaMatt | crilly, hahah, na, not yet, need to find time to sort it out |
| 10:37.15 | yaMatt | podcast night is not a good night to do it |
| 10:46.40 | crilly | :) |
| 10:46.43 | crilly | What's your podcast? |
| 10:48.01 | yaMatt | tdtrs.co.uk |
| 10:48.05 | yaMatt | me and dick_turpin |
| 10:50.41 | crilly | Nice! |
| 10:50.53 | crilly | Ah Linux Outlaws. Have you met Dan yet? :) |
| 11:20.55 | yaMatt | yup, good friends with Dan |
| 11:25.04 | crilly | I've met him a few times at Chester LUG. Nice guy and fellow scouser :> |
| 11:44.18 | ChoHag | "like a sniper using bollocks for amunition" |
| 11:46.15 | yaMatt | crilly, yeah, he's a really safe guy |
| 12:53.28 | crilly | yaMatt: Safe? He's a scouser man - he'll steal your watch ;) |
| 13:03.20 | yaMatt | hahah |
| 13:03.24 | yaMatt | and burn your car |
| 13:17.45 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (~peter@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 13:22.07 | z00dax | ok, we need to stop talking about dick_turpin soon, he might show up |
| 13:22.25 | dick_turpin | morsing: ! |
| 13:22.31 | z00dax | check it |
| 13:22.52 | dick_turpin | z00dax: Haven't you got a distro to run? |
| 13:22.55 | morsing | dick_turpin! |
| 13:23.43 | dick_turpin | z00dax: We/I mentioned CentOS in the podcast last night |
| 13:24.08 | z00dax | dick_turpin: what! I thought you were running the distro |
| 13:24.27 | z00dax | ooh... maybe i can blag about the podcast a bit then, /me goes to have a listen |
| 13:24.57 | z00dax | i see episode 46 from a few weeks ago.. |
| 13:25.51 | dick_turpin | z00dax: It's not out yet, Monday. TBH it might not be worth your while. We discussed the keys for secure boot. I said that I would have thought CentOS will get theirs/be allowed to use Red Hats |
| 13:26.28 | dick_turpin | EP47 |
| 13:26.29 | z00dax | thats a bit of a issue at the moment, we dont really want to be in the key business at all |
| 13:27.01 | z00dax | what we have done is ping around town, and collect feedback from the vendors and support people who handle first line server type support calls |
| 13:27.29 | dick_turpin | TBH I don't think there's a choice |
| 13:27.33 | z00dax | and were working to get a plan together based on that |
| 13:27.55 | z00dax | the fact that we want everyone to turn on UEFI is a no brainer, the whole 8bit bios world is just so crap |
| 13:28.32 | yaMatt | it is about time |
| 13:29.00 | z00dax | secure boot on the other hand, does not really solve enough of a problem in the linux world, -and- the firmware vendors ( != hardware vendors ) are mostly going down the route of allowing a null key type check, which effectively turns off secure-boot |
| 13:29.52 | z00dax | the problem is, they dont all really have a single perspective on either the problem domain or the solution domain - so their implementation is, while still meeting the intel spec, completely different |
| 13:30.40 | z00dax | adding to the fruit-loops is that we use a one time secure gpg key, generated at build time, in the buildsystem, and then discarded before build end - and sign kernel + ko's with that key |
| 13:31.05 | z00dax | its meant to be more of a 'you can verify that all these bits were put together at the same time, in the same space, with the same key' |
| 13:31.12 | dick_turpin | The conversation stemmed from Linus's comments about not wanting them in the kernel. That's fine IMO. I did ask yaMatt if they could be in Grub? (I know nothing about coding remember) but ultimately my preferred method is we *ALL* use the free software solution |
| 13:31.22 | z00dax | its not meant to be something that is then used / abused later on in life for other things |
| 13:32.08 | z00dax | which also means that there is no key to sign as a 'secure boot trusts this' - and every kernel comes with its own key, only ever used for itself. |
| 13:32.21 | z00dax | right. once you hit grub, about 50% of the problems are behind you already :) |
| 13:32.46 | dick_turpin | z00dax: So my suggestion of Grub was stupid? |
| 13:33.30 | z00dax | no, i dont think so - grub components need to be signed as well - but they cant hold the key |
| 13:34.05 | z00dax | look at it this way: if the key is itself volatile, then whoever comes with the malicious code, can bring their own key along as well' |
| 13:35.28 | dick_turpin | Ah OK |
| 13:35.47 | dick_turpin | So what about the free software foundation method? |
| 13:37.43 | z00dax | do you mean the linux foundation one ? where they get a key signed from MS's authority and then sub-sign keys for distro's ? |
| 13:38.00 | dick_turpin | Crap, yeah |
| 13:38.16 | z00dax | so the problem above is one of the main contention points with that process as well |
| 13:38.35 | z00dax | the LinuxFoundation can setup an authority to issue keys... but then what criteria are they going to use to say yes or no |
| 13:38.53 | z00dax | is Debian more of a Yes that TheDickTurnpinGetRichQuickOS |
| 13:39.04 | z00dax | and if so, what criteria will that come with.. |
| 13:39.25 | z00dax | the other side of the story is more interesting ( to me anyway ) - what happens when a distro's infra is compromised |
| 13:40.04 | dick_turpin | But the thing is I'm pretty anti everyone having their own keys which is what's happening at the moment |
| 13:40.09 | z00dax | the linuxfoundation can revoke the key - but that revoke crl wont be in the master roots, and only then worth something when the machine's bios updates the linuxfoundation's crl ( and there is no clear method for that ) |
| 13:40.28 | z00dax | so what does MS do about this ? They will revoke the entire linuxfoundation root key |
| 13:40.50 | dick_turpin | z00dax: Yes, I see what you mean. |
| 13:41.32 | dick_turpin | I suppose we need some bright spark to fathom out a way to hack the BIOS on the boards? |
| 13:41.32 | yaMatt | basically it's all broken |
| 13:42.04 | z00dax | things are even more 'grim' for people like us, like gentoo and mint and ark linux etc - who are not backed by a limited by liability entity |
| 13:42.17 | dick_turpin | Then we will be in the realms of who actually owns the board. You or Intel? |
| 13:42.39 | z00dax | technically, very few ( i dont know of any ) hardware vendors on the x86 area actually write their own firmware |
| 13:42.46 | dick_turpin | z00dax: Yeah I mentioned the little people last night |
| 13:43.28 | z00dax | yaMatt: its not pretty for sure |
| 13:44.34 | dick_turpin | Mind you as yaMatt said it is (for the minute) academic as you can turn it off in the BIOS trouble is for how long? |
| 13:44.36 | z00dax | late 2013 to summer 2014 is going to be painful |
| 13:45.13 | z00dax | dick_turpin: right, i agree - education is key. but then again, like i said - the way its being put into place is beyond whacked |
| 13:45.35 | z00dax | like the lenovo E series that have a 'disable secure boot' option that only lets you boot RHEL and Windows in insecure mode... |
| 13:46.09 | z00dax | likely someone on that dev team didnt quite get what 'disable' means |
| 13:46.25 | z00dax | are they breaking a standard ? no. |
| 13:46.30 | z00dax | are they doing the wrong thing ? yes |
| 13:46.46 | dick_turpin | Ahahahaha |
| 13:46.50 | z00dax | are they delivering expectation ? maybe... since they address the issue for 90% of their userbase |
| 13:47.12 | dick_turpin | z00dax: Can you make one that says "Only boot mine and fook the others" |
| 13:47.27 | z00dax | their, privately expressed at the time, point was : everyone to the dot who asked us for the disable option uses linux in their workplace, and they all use rhel - so we didnt test beyond |
| 13:47.42 | dick_turpin | Ahahahahah |
| 13:48.30 | z00dax | dick_turpin: quite likely, and its something companies are going to use / enforce - the keystore on the system is nvram, and can be appended to ( how we get our keys in but still boot windows etc ) - or replaced ( how large companies will only allow their users to boot and use some specific stuff they sign themselves, including windows ) |
| 13:49.30 | z00dax | and since you can replace the entire lot, you can remove the ability to further replace it :) |
| 13:49.55 | dick_turpin | So essentially are you saying you could have separate keys to do, in effect, separate things? Kinda like multi boot? |
| 13:50.32 | dick_turpin | But only if you have the right key? |
| 14:07.26 | crilly | Another problem is cost. If you expect the Linux Foundation to house the infrastructure required to sign keys, then someone has to pay for that. If you charge for keys, then you cut out the bedroom-developed distros who can't afford $1,000 to have a signature. |
| 14:09.00 | dick_turpin | crilly: I would expect the big boys to pay (RH, Ubuntu, Novel) and any donations. |
| 14:09.52 | crilly | That's likely going to be the case, so then you have another issue - what happens when RH say, "nah, you aint signing Debian stuff anymore becauise that effects our profits." |
| 14:10.22 | crilly | What do you say then when they're oaying for your $50k/month infrastructure? |
| 14:10.30 | morsing | crilly: Richard is here?! |
| 14:10.44 | crilly | !? |
| 14:10.58 | dick_turpin | At the moment RH has bought keys. Obviously they're not sharing this will lead to Ubuntu doing their own thing openSUSE already has sex with MS anyway so they'll do their own thing and we have a whole new layer of fragmentation upon us. |
| 14:11.03 | crilly | He might be? is anyone here called Ricard? |
| 14:11.23 | Leeds | who, what? |
| 14:21.55 | crilly | Him! |
| 14:25.49 | dick_turpin | I take it morsing is off his head on crack again? |
| 14:26.14 | crilly | Aren't we all? I couldn't do my job if it wasn't for meth. |
| 14:27.43 | dick_turpin | phones the cops |
| 14:29.20 | crilly | ;O |
| 14:32.47 | yaMatt | it's very more-ish |
| 14:35.06 | dick_turpin | yaMatt: I'm telling your mum |
| 14:35.41 | yaMatt | just in time for mothers day |
| 14:35.48 | yaMatt | oo look at that |
| 14:35.49 | *** mode/#gllug [+o yaMatt] by ChanServ |
| 14:36.11 | yaMatt | Greater London LUG | Next meeting: TBA | http://www.gllug.org.uk |
| 14:36.14 | yaMatt | err |
| 14:36.18 | *** topic/#gllug by yaMatt -> Greater London LUG | Next meeting: TBA | http://www.gllug.org.uk |
| 14:36.20 | *** mode/#gllug [-o yaMatt] by yaMatt |
| 14:36.34 | *** mode/#gllug [+o Leeds] by ChanServ |
| 14:36.39 | Leeds | oh look, that still works |
| 14:36.42 | *** mode/#gllug [-o Leeds] by ChanServ |
| 14:36.43 | yaMatt | Leeds, show off :P |
| 14:36.56 | Leeds | I was an op in #android and #android-dev, but I got demoted :( |
| 14:37.15 | yaMatt | it's ok, we don't keep track here :D |
| 14:37.22 | Leeds | still got #python though, which is nice |
| 14:43.51 | AndyMillar | ah, the mailing list is hilarious |
| 14:44.12 | AndyMillar | 1. I want to run more services out of my cheap ADSL line than most companies run out of a DC |
| 14:44.46 | AndyMillar | there was a #1, but I forgot it :( |
| 14:44.52 | dick_turpin | Ahahahaha |
| 14:45.00 | AndyMillar | #2* |
| 14:45.53 | Leeds | ha ha number 1 |
| 14:46.30 | yaMatt | I was astounded by the 500 mails a day one |
| 14:47.08 | dick_turpin | AndyMillar: We have a customer that sold franchises all over the UK, park of the deal was you got an email account and access to the server. This was all run from a crappy £29.99 a month broadband. They was constantly on the phone "The Internet is really slow we can get on many of the websites!" I cant think why? |
| 14:47.25 | dick_turpin | sold/sell |
| 14:47.35 | dick_turpin | s/park/part |
| 14:47.58 | dick_turpin | s/can/cant |
| 14:48.02 | dick_turpin | bugger |
| 14:49.34 | Leeds | also, I like to mention my to-the-living-room fibre every now and again |
| 14:50.39 | dick_turpin | You're all very cruel |
| 14:51.37 | Leeds | oh look http://www.speedtest.net/result/2557174770.png |
| 14:54.08 | AndyMillar | ah, that was #2 |
| 14:54.22 | AndyMillar | James (who gets 15k emails a month) |
| 14:54.29 | AndyMillar | it's ironic really, he can't actually read them |
| 14:54.40 | AndyMillar | since when the gllug mailing list was down, he never responded to our emails |
| 14:56.39 | yaMatt | hahah |
| 14:56.52 | yaMatt | Leeds, fuck you and your broadband ;0 |
| 14:56.54 | yaMatt | :) |
| 14:57.27 | crilly | Leeds: How much is that line, out of interest? |
| 14:57.34 | Leeds | I'll be in Leeds in a couple of weeks, slumming it on Virgin ADSL |
| 14:57.52 | Leeds | crilly: little over 20 quid a month |
| 14:58.02 | crilly | I couldn't even utilise that kind of bandwidth. |
| 14:58.37 | Leeds | apropos of nothing, there a truly *massive* amount of pornography on the Internet |
| 14:59.08 | dick_turpin | There's never a Lugmaster around when you need one |
| 14:59.14 | AndyMillar | I also find it amusing how many people don't want to pay for what they actually use |
| 14:59.26 | Leeds | dick_turpin: isn't that a type of bus? |
| 15:00.20 | crilly | Leeds: Got a link to the ISP for that line? :) |
| 15:00.29 | Leeds | crilly: netvigator.com |
| 15:01.21 | Leeds | crilly: you saw the bit on the speedtest image where I'm 3ms away from a server in Hong Kong, right? |
| 15:02.30 | crilly | Sure. I knew it wasn't in the UK. It's an impressive speed, regardless. Gain though, no good for the average joe :) |
| 15:02.43 | crilly | Even someone like me with access to a shittonne of highly private trackers |
| 15:03.20 | dick_turpin | Leeds: Reading the mailing list it looks like some poor sod has been thrown under a bus at any rate. :-D |
| 15:03.36 | Leeds | it helps that I'm in a building with approximately 100 flats, which is probably below average size - one big line into the building goes a long way... |
| 15:04.07 | Leeds | when I say fibre-to-my-living-room, I mean a guy came round and actually pulled fibre through the building's comms conduit |
| 15:04.26 | yaMatt | brilliant |
| 15:04.29 | crilly | Nice. I have 80Mbit here and I don't even use that hehe |
| 15:04.40 | yaMatt | Leeds, isn't your building really new though? |
| 15:04.44 | Leeds | not at all |
| 15:04.54 | crilly | yaMatt: It's like all over east asian countries. |
| 15:05.04 | crilly | like that* |
| 15:05.24 | crilly | In Japan I think you can get Internet connectivity through the power sockets. |
| 15:05.25 | Leeds | at least 20 years old, probably more |
| 15:05.35 | yaMatt | my last flat was only 3 years old and there's no way they could run fibre in there without pulling bits of the wall off |
| 15:05.55 | Leeds | crilly: one of the pleasures of traveling in Japan is that hotel rooms typically have massively fast wired connections thrown in for free |
| 15:06.20 | Leeds | take a little portable access point, and things work well |
| 15:07.05 | AndyMillar | fucking hell spammers |
| 15:07.18 | AndyMillar | why do they bother? |
| 15:07.35 | AndyMillar | 2.5k emails so far today |
| 15:07.40 | w1bble | cos it's cheap and dumb fucks respond |
| 15:08.02 | crilly | They only need 1% to respond to make a lot of dollar. |
| 15:08.07 | crilly | That's why they do it :) |
| 15:08.18 | AndyMillar | true |
| 15:08.23 | AndyMillar | it's still depressing |
| 15:08.28 | Leeds | I think it's a lot less than 1% nowadays |
| 15:08.46 | dick_turpin | I love it when morons say "I don't usually read your spam however I'm currently looking for...." Everything is spam until something catches your eye. |
| 15:08.58 | yaMatt | I'm starting to see XMPP spam these days |
| 15:09.14 | Leeds | yaMatt: I've had a couple of incoming gtalk requests, yeah |
| 15:09.17 | crilly | I have a white list on my personal (paid) Google Apps account which basically traps everything except exactly what I want. |
| 15:09.52 | yaMatt | it used to be that way for me when I used hotmail |
| 15:10.11 | yaMatt | I set it so that all mail went to my junk box unless they were in my contacts list |
| 15:10.28 | yaMatt | they're going to have to get to grips with it quickly though |
| 15:10.31 | Leeds | hmm, there are 50-year-old buildings in this neighbourhood - for HK that's almost listed-building age |
| 15:11.07 | yaMatt | Leeds, were you on Kowloon? |
| 15:11.15 | Leeds | erm, I've been to Kowloon, yes |
| 15:11.38 | yaMatt | I mean that's where you lived |
| 15:11.45 | Leeds | oh, no, never lived over there |
| 15:12.16 | yaMatt | ah, because that's where some of the older stuff is I think |
| 15:12.38 | Leeds | Kowloon is somewhat equivalent to south London - for quite a while it genuinely confused me that the nicer parts of town are south of the water here :) |
| 15:12.53 | yaMatt | heheh |
| 15:14.23 | Leeds | http://goo.gl/maps/f80tq - my building is the greyish one next to the nice clean looking white one, down the alleyway |
| 15:15.29 | Leeds | where the yellow banner is on the right, they've opened a big supermarket since the photo was taken |
| 15:17.06 | Leeds | they've completely cleaned up the outside of that building over the past year or so - it was covered in bamboo and draped in tarps for most of the year |
| 15:18.02 | yaMatt | I love how they do that |
| 15:18.20 | yaMatt | ah, so you're just below victoria peak |
| 15:18.24 | crilly | Leeds: How come you're over in asia, then? |
| 15:18.39 | Leeds | yaMatt: nah, all the way down - we're pretty much at sea level |
| 15:18.46 | Leeds | crilly: for the women... |
| 15:19.30 | Leeds | or for a real answer - was handed an opportunity to come out here about 8 years ago, seemed like a good idea at the time, that job didn't work out but I stuck around anyway |
| 15:21.05 | dick_turpin | crilly: He was transported to the colonies |
| 15:21.39 | crilly | Leeds: You didn't need to expand further on "the women". That was a perfect answer. |
| 15:21.42 | dick_turpin | crilly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation |
| 15:21.44 | Leeds | I was indeed, by an aeroplane operated by Sir Richard's company |
| 15:22.14 | Leeds | dick_turpin: it was unfeasible to transport just my penis, so they had to send all of me |
| 15:22.47 | crilly | Leeds: http://venus.provocateuse.com/images/photos/grace_park_03.jpg -- find me one like that and bring her back please (my girlfriend is bi-sexual, so we're cool in that department) |
| 15:22.59 | dick_turpin | Leeds: They could have shipped that economy class. :-P |
| 15:23.12 | Leeds | crilly: hey, NSFH! |
| 15:23.46 | crilly | Why not? Her tits are in their cloth, right? :) |
| 15:23.50 | Leeds | dick_turpin: upper class, naturally |
| 15:24.00 | Leeds | crilly: my gf was a little surprised to see that... |
| 15:25.49 | crilly | Are you new to IRC, sir? :P |
| 15:26.06 | crilly | Is your girl friend Grace Park? |
| 15:30.52 | dick_turpin | It's illegal to let your gf look at IRC |
| 15:35.02 | crilly | Agreed. |
| 15:35.14 | crilly | What happens on IRC, stays on IRC (and the FBI's files). |
| 15:40.43 | crilly | Luckily we have an internal IRC network in work, so I use that for anything "private" :P |
| 16:56.35 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (~peter@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 18:14.52 | *** join/#gllug Armand (~martin@87-194-165-154.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:32.16 | crilly | 24GB of DDR3 ECC registered RAM for £45 - w00t |
| 18:32.33 | crilly | That's my workstation's RAM sorted for a while |
| 19:06.28 | yaMatt | nice |
| 19:06.40 | yaMatt | which dodgy site did you get that from? |
| 20:21.25 | *** join/#gllug chrisp (~wibble@host81-141-234-82.wlms-broadband.com) |
