| 00:06.50 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@n219077082069.netvigator.com) |
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| 04:08.29 | PcSett | is away: I've gone for the whiskey |
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| 09:12.17 | Cope | moin |
| 09:32.05 | hali | Good Morning |
| 09:36.10 | scottuss | Moin |
| 09:36.16 | scottuss | just looked at that job ad. HA! |
| 09:36.25 | scottuss | as if anyone can afford to live on 12k |
| 09:44.53 | boudiccas | scottuss, in the web page that the job is advertised in they quote 12k-15k! |
| 09:45.35 | boudiccas | they'll probbaly get some pimply faced school leaver who knows everything and pay them 12k |
| 09:45.52 | boudiccas | saying thats a good wage for a school leaver! |
| 09:47.40 | scottuss | Straight out of uni I was on 20k |
| 09:47.50 | scottuss | But I know my skillset can get that |
| 09:49.13 | boudiccas | i was intertested in their job till i saw what you had to do for it, be on call over the weekend, and i thought that wasnt worth 12k, especially as i would have to train up from maidstone, and most of my wages would go on train fares |
| 10:05.21 | scottuss | boudiccas, similar situation here, except I live in London and 15k won't cover my rent |
| 10:05.34 | scottuss | and I sure as hell wouldn't be on call over weekends for that money! |
| 10:06.31 | scottuss | shame someone hasn't set up a "linux job" website... |
| 10:06.48 | scottuss | I heard someone was planning to do that. Maybe it was on Linux Outlaws.. I'll have to check |
| 10:23.17 | wethrin | what, like https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/linuxjobs? |
| 10:54.12 | z00dax | I'm looking for people, 20k is doable; grad's with 65% or better and $clue, need not know much on the plaform side of things |
| 10:54.21 | z00dax | and we can even swing in a RHCE exam at the end of year1 |
| 10:54.25 | z00dax | we'll pay for it |
| 10:55.12 | z00dax | but the only people I seem to be able to find are guys who totally slept through uni, and I'm surprised they have a degree. or people who seem to want 45k/yr |
| 10:55.22 | z00dax | I should ask the wise old men of gllug... |
| 11:14.12 | scottuss | z00dax, I pretty much slept thorough uni, why is that a bad thing/ |
| 11:14.19 | scottuss | I say slept, I mean didn't attend much |
| 11:14.25 | scottuss | too busy building infrastructure to play with |
| 11:14.28 | scottuss | and writing code |
| 11:14.28 | scottuss | etc |
| 11:14.43 | scottuss | That gave me "real" skills |
| 11:15.06 | wethrin | z00dax: If you want people out of Uni, don't look now. Look in about June time |
| 11:17.48 | scottuss | z00dax, what sort of people you looking for? |
| 11:20.17 | *** join/#gllug scottuss (~scott@62.232.39.235) |
| 11:20.47 | scottuss | I have experience too, not fresh out of uni anymore |
| 11:27.38 | z00dax | wethrin: May/June/July is the plan, unless we can find people now who are going to be passing out later this year. |
| 11:27.50 | z00dax | I need to build the whole biz plan etc and get it through management. |
| 11:28.11 | z00dax | scottuss: the aim is to try and find 3 to 5 people who we can work through an apprenticeship program. |
| 11:28.24 | z00dax | sort of try and see if we can build sysadmins :) |
| 11:29.35 | z00dax | part of the problem I'm trying to solve is that at this time it just seems really hard for graduates to get into the admin/infra/devops tracks; on the other hand its also super hard finding people with $clue in those areas who understand business and who understand how a process driven management environment works |
| 11:30.05 | cbz | super hard? or just super hard at the price you are willing to pay? |
| 11:30.08 | z00dax | scottuss: send me your CV :) |
| 11:30.18 | z00dax | cbz: its fairly hard these days |
| 11:30.34 | cbz | fairly hard? or just fairly hard .. |
| 11:30.34 | z00dax | most admin people are charging or looking for about 20 - 30% higher than they are worth |
| 11:30.45 | z00dax | in the city anyway |
| 11:30.58 | cbz | If they are charging it, and the market is willing to pay .. |
| 11:31.17 | z00dax | cbz: sure, which is why i think we can do a better job and actually help people at the same time |
| 11:31.51 | z00dax | getting a bunch of nearly-fresh people into the building will take its toll on the overall velocity as well, for a the first few months massively, and thats a hit were willing to take |
| 11:43.25 | antiphase | As long as you don't encourage any more shit people into it as a side-effect :P |
| 11:43.44 | z00dax | antiphase: :) there is always that risk |
| 11:44.25 | hali | im always surprised of the kind of people you find in large "prestigious" investment banks |
| 11:44.28 | antiphase | A lot of the better sysadmins I've known have been academically inferior, possibly as a result of misspending their time at university learning about thier interest in it, rather than passing exams |
| 11:44.43 | hali | i was at credit suisse the other day, spoke to some IT people... they clearly worked in IT because of the money |
| 11:44.45 | antiphase | Or just not even going to university |
| 11:45.16 | antiphase | All but one of the contractors I've recently worked with have been utter dicks, and technically poor, and they're clearly doing it for the money |
| 11:45.33 | hali | no interest in techonology or problem solving.. |
| 11:46.00 | z00dax | yeah, i know how that feels. |
| 11:46.07 | antiphase | That's basically what it comes down to |
| 11:46.16 | z00dax | you know its bad when people in the hosting business start complaining about the quality of contractors coming in |
| 11:47.01 | antiphase | There's one dude that types with 2 fingers, types 'clear' to clear his terminal, and appears not to know about tab completion in bash |
| 11:47.27 | hali | half of them were probably on 120k plus inc bonus though... but had the tech knowledge of a chimpanzee |
| 11:47.36 | z00dax | a good way to find out about bash capability is to put them in a gnome-term and ask them to foward search through history |
| 11:47.52 | z00dax | hali: i want a 120k job :( |
| 11:48.19 | hali | me too! |
| 11:48.22 | hali | i know stuffz |
| 11:48.28 | cbz | Then you need to look good in a suit and talk convincingly. |
| 11:49.16 | hali | and not whinge too about working with utterly boring shit like weblogic/websphere and legacy unices (hp-ux/aix) |
| 11:49.18 | antiphase | It does seem to be a lot about brown-nosing with management to cover up for your lack of ability, and having Teflon shoulders and a good aptitude for shifting the blame |
| 11:49.36 | hali | and heavily abusing the forward button in Outlook |
| 11:49.53 | antiphase | and Reply All, ccing some managers |
| 11:49.57 | z00dax | damn, I dont even know what the new outlook's UI is |
| 11:50.01 | antiphase | is't bitter |
| 11:50.07 | hali | yes |
| 11:51.29 | hali | one favorite of mine was when dealing with a large bank and we had problems with a j2ee app and a guy from the weblogic team said "I'm in the Weblogic app server team, I don't deal with Java problems." |
| 11:51.59 | wethrin | that just sounds really soul-destroying |
| 11:52.08 | wethrin | if you only have such a narrow job |
| 11:52.08 | hali | or when a DBA had to file a ticket with the sysadmin team to check the free disk space of a file system :/ |
| 11:52.39 | z00dax | awesome |
| 11:52.56 | hali | the list goes on, when our app has issues in a bank, the larger the bank the more people we have on the conference bridges... 20-25 people for a server restart isn't uncommon |
| 11:53.00 | z00dax | our dba here does iops metrics |
| 11:53.16 | z00dax | in the 'enterprise' he might be stepping on about a dozen toes |
| 11:54.35 | hali | a few banks are ok though, they do vertical silos instead of horizontal, one team works with all the fixed income applications and they know the setup very well... |
| 12:18.13 | cbz | That's a bit of a silly test, you may as well as them to cut and paste in vi.# |
| 13:11.30 | scottuss | z00dax, I'll send my CV over, just wanted to get an idea of what you were interested in. Sounds good, although not sure I could take a hit down to 20k at this moment in time... |
| 13:12.35 | z00dax | scottuss: send me your CV, lets talk |
| 13:21.07 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (~dick_turp@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 13:22.01 | dick_turpin | I said to him "Is that my blood on the floor?" he responded "Is that my knife in your chest?" |
| 13:22.39 | AndyMillar | < cbz> Then you need to look good in a suit and talk convincingly <-- I can do that |
| 13:28.12 | dick_turpin | I am expert at that |
| 13:30.38 | z00dax | dick_turpin: are you making 120k/yr ? |
| 13:31.38 | dick_turpin | Is the Pope Jewish? |
| 13:31.47 | ChoHag | Doesn't everyone in gllug make at least twice that? |
| 13:31.54 | ChoHag | I thought you weren't allowed out of bed for less. |
| 13:34.13 | dick_turpin | Yeah I love the lines "I wouldn't get out of bed for less than £70K" when you know full well they're on £26K and a bowl of bran flakes |
| 13:39.33 | AndyMillar | z00dax: to answer your question on gllug (no time for emails today :/), 18-20k |
| 13:40.05 | AndyMillar | z00dax: that said, 1 year probation (after talking to our recruitment people) screams of a company that will hire you for a year, burn you to the ground, then get rid of you with no notice |
| 13:40.23 | AndyMillar | so be careful about the message you might be giving off by setting that as a probationary period |
| 13:40.45 | z00dax | yeah, the word probation isnt really the right one for our setup |
| 13:41.02 | z00dax | the aim is to bring a bunch of people in, train and work with them for a year before doing a full hire for all of them |
| 13:41.15 | z00dax | i think gllug latched onto the probation term |
| 13:41.20 | AndyMillar | why not the full hire from the start then? |
| 13:41.42 | scottuss | as it's a junior role? |
| 13:42.29 | z00dax | AndyMillar: yeah, it actually will be a full hire with some caveats |
| 13:42.51 | z00dax | like can be dismissed either way with 1 month notice and there are some hr issues - so its kinda like a probation but not quite |
| 13:43.18 | z00dax | the actual money we end up spending will be almost the same |
| 13:43.32 | z00dax | since whatever we cought up for the RHCE would just go into their salary from next year. |
| 13:43.33 | AndyMillar | z00dax: 1 month's notice is normal |
| 13:43.45 | AndyMillar | so why not full hire with one month's notice |
| 13:44.03 | AndyMillar | up to 1 year they have no rights as an employee either |
| 13:44.05 | z00dax | AndyMillar: I'll need to dig up the details exactly. |
| 13:44.07 | AndyMillar | s/either/anyway/ |
| 13:44.17 | z00dax | humm ok |
| 13:44.43 | AndyMillar | you can dismiss with no reason up to 1 year |
| 13:44.48 | z00dax | we have a budget of 4K per person for exams, so if they start at 20k first years, its 24k in the next year etc. |
| 13:48.21 | dick_turpin | Hang on did I miss something here? z00dax you employing or something? |
| 13:48.47 | scottuss | z00dax, and if you were to get good candidates that are being paid higher than that, they would be considered? |
| 13:51.52 | z00dax | scottuss: yes |
| 13:52.19 | z00dax | it would mean that you'd be expected to pitch into the regular work a bit more :) |
| 13:53.30 | scottuss | Sounds like a good thing! :) |
| 13:54.21 | dick_turpin | z00dax: Can I come and work for you? I promise not to write anything on my "Are you serious?" blog |
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| 15:12.10 | PcSett | is back (gone 11:03:43) |
| 15:29.12 | ChoHag | 15:05 < mattp> has the code patch been written yet which adds date-related information so that we can sensibly trim the sessions table in the future? |
| 15:32.16 | dick_turpin | z00dax: Ah seen your post on the list, seems I won't be applying I'm not a post graduate :'( |
| 15:35.56 | dick_turpin | http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/world-ipv4-stocks-finally-run-out-19674 |
| 15:36.07 | cbz | For some reason I assumed you were a contractor of sorts. |
| 15:37.48 | dick_turpin | Me? |
| 15:37.53 | cbz | Yeah. |
| 15:38.13 | dick_turpin | No I'm a Sales Manager which is better |
| 15:38.59 | cbz | And you want to become a sysadmin? |
| 15:39.02 | dick_turpin | I worked in recruitment about, erm 15 years ago |
| 15:39.18 | boudiccas | dont forget that you were a porter too |
| 15:39.36 | dick_turpin | Yep amongst other things |
| 15:40.47 | dick_turpin | boudiccas: Have you seen this other job I did? http://cannon-linux.co.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=312 |
| 15:41.21 | dick_turpin | And this is me at MK Hospital http://cannon-linux.co.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=310 |
| 15:42.12 | dick_turpin | Did you think I was telling porky pies? |
| 15:42.22 | boudiccas | you look seriously shifty in the second photo :) |
| 15:42.59 | dick_turpin | And here is me as a boy racer in MK http://cannon-linux.co.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=315 |
| 15:43.05 | PcSett | is away: I've gone for the whiskey |
| 15:43.06 | boudiccas | the first one just made me laugh! and the commonality with both photos is that you've got hair on both of them |
| 15:44.17 | dick_turpin | I keep telling the wife "I had hair when we married the next day it all fell out!" |
| 15:44.18 | boudiccas | in Milton Keynes?, is that the MK that you're tlaking about dick_turpin ? |
| 15:44.23 | boudiccas | lol |
| 15:44.25 | dick_turpin | Yes |
| 15:45.28 | boudiccas | i had my photo atken recently for a job i was applying for, and i got five passport sized photos, used two and promptly lost the rest! |
| 15:45.34 | boudiccas | *taken |
| 15:46.41 | dick_turpin | My last passport photo was a huge mistake, I used a white background and I was wearing a white tee shirt I looked like a Bosnian terrorist |
| 15:47.01 | boudiccas | rofl |
| 15:47.31 | boudiccas | justa mug shot with this face appearing out of hte background |
| 15:48.57 | boudiccas | that rum and raisin reaches parts that other snuff just doesn t reach, like the bakc of the throat that causes me to cough!!!! |
| 15:49.25 | antiphase | It's telling you to stop doing it before you get cancer in your hooter |
| 15:49.52 | boudiccas | no chance |
| 15:50.01 | dick_turpin | Thank god you said that I nearly said something rude |
| 15:50.08 | boudiccas | no one has ever got nasal cnacer from nasal snuff |
| 15:54.25 | dick_turpin | removes the carcinogenic spray from his nose |
| 15:55.48 | boudiccas | that reminds me, i havent used my nasal spray today, i'd better remedy that |
| 15:58.46 | dick_turpin | switches on some 1970's porno music while boudiccas shoves something up her nose |
| 16:01.59 | boudiccas | beconase |
| 16:07.44 | boudiccas | I'm walking on sunshine, and dont it feel good |
| 16:07.59 | boudiccas | i'm walking on sunshine, wooooe |
| 16:08.46 | boudiccas | do you collect porn music then dick_turpin ? sorry for being so lsow i've just reread it |
| 16:08.57 | boudiccas | *slow |
| 16:18.13 | dick_turpin | It passes the time |
| 16:23.56 | boudiccas | dick_turpin, i would've thought that you were rushed off your feet, being as you're such a high powered executive |
| 16:24.39 | dick_turpin | High Power pfff I was sorting out the heating timer yesterday afternoon. |
| 16:25.37 | *** join/#gllug gmarkall (~graham@84.45.235.192) |
| 16:26.06 | dick_turpin | ,dent fabsh/63451269 |
| 16:27.05 | dick_turpin | https://identi.ca/notice/63451269 Some one will make a killing even if its 3p a minute |
| 16:27.47 | dick_turpin | Ahahahahahahaha wrong window what a pleb |
| 16:28.05 | boudiccas | i wondered what you were on about!!!! |
| 16:29.28 | dick_turpin | I'm getting old |
| 16:29.43 | boudiccas | rubbish! you're not even as old as i am!!!! |
| 16:30.20 | boudiccas | old is just a mental attitude |
| 16:30.43 | dick_turpin | Yeah I know :-) |
| 16:31.04 | boudiccas | you ask the biscuit lady, she'll tell you |
| 16:34.59 | dick_turpin | She's 7 years younger than me I've no chance of out living her :-( |
| 16:35.44 | boudiccas | you baby snatcher you!!!!! |
| 16:36.18 | dick_turpin | Must be my boyish good looks :-) |
| 16:36.39 | boudiccas | or the long locks of flowing hair? |
| 16:43.38 | boudiccas | before you went bald |
| 16:44.17 | boudiccas | i've never understoof monks having a tonsure, why would they make themselves intentioinally partly bald? |
| 16:45.35 | ChoHag | They don't have sex. |
| 16:45.38 | ChoHag | Life must be pretty boring. |
| 16:46.08 | boudiccas | must get through some bromide then |
| 17:06.45 | dick_turpin | ChoHag: They have sex with each other |
| 17:07.05 | dick_turpin | Or the choir boys |
| 17:07.12 | ChoHag | Is that monks too. |
| 17:07.13 | ChoHag | ? |
| 17:10.53 | antiphase | pulls on dick_turpin's baubles |
| 17:13.18 | dick_turpin | sings soprano |
| 17:25.20 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (~dick_turp@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 17:44.32 | hali | beer'o'clock |
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| 22:58.47 | ChoHag | It's old, and I've seen it before, but it's still great. |
| 22:58.48 | ChoHag | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI |
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