IRC log for #gllug on 20091022

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08:32.07Mohanmorning!
08:33.55halimorning
09:32.11AndyMillarmornin!
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12:56.08kjsafternoon
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14:26.22AndyMillar'noon
14:26.41bilarhwakes up screaming and in a cold sweat
14:27.09wethrinThat good, eh?
14:27.51AndyMillarwethrin: you have no idea ;)
14:28.07wethrinheh
14:29.26*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219078221168.netvigator.com)
14:31.06AndyMillarLeeds!
14:31.23Leedsyes?
14:31.36AndyMillarsorry, morsing appears to be slacking
14:34.18dick_turpinwethrin: The only story for today is CYB telling a customer "Yeah we'll replace the ADSL filter and see if that sorts it as they are prone to failure" WTF? There's no moving parts in them?
14:34.33wethrinCapacitors blow up sometimes
14:35.18dick_turpinwethrin: I wish he'd blow up
14:35.35wethrinafter his job?
14:35.56dick_turpinwethrin: Er no he part owns the business
14:36.01wethrinoh
14:36.28dick_turpinwethrin: That means nothing apart from putting his house on the line
14:36.56wethrinoh
14:37.26dick_turpinI hope he loses that and has to go on the game
14:37.34AndyMillarharsh
14:37.49dick_turpinIts a harsh life
14:38.54dick_turpinIts like a really over cooked steak meal, tough, burnt and the chips are stacked against you
14:38.57ChoHagEspecially on the game.
14:39.27dick_turpinIts OK his partner hates him too bwahahaha
14:39.50AndyMillardoes his partner prefer you?
14:39.59ChoHagSpeaking of the game, my pimp still hasn't sorted out my start date.
14:40.28AndyMillarChoHag: who're you pimped out to this time?
14:40.37ChoHagBetfair still.
14:40.39dick_turpinChoHag: I take it bilarh is your pimp
14:40.49ChoHagI've been waiting for paperwork all this time.
14:41.01AndyMillarChoHag: ah
14:41.02ChoHagWell actually it's capgemini, who are in turn pimped out to betfair.
14:45.10bilarhbitch slaps chohag "STOP TALKIN AND GET BACK TO WORK"
14:46.27dick_turpinbilarh: lol
14:56.06kjsyay windows 7 is now available to the public
14:56.37ChoHagThrilling.
15:02.06dick_turpinI've mailed everyone on my list about it only had one enquiry?
15:27.45dick_turpinis still on ep 115
15:27.54dick_turpinbwahahaha
15:28.20dick_turpinwong window
15:30.48ChoHagHeroes: Kind of like the XMEN. In fact it is the Xmen, only lots more people who dont only speak englesh.
15:49.27*** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
15:59.22ChoHagBetfair people - what's the walk like from Earl's Court station?
15:59.33AndyMillaralong a main road
15:59.49AndyMillar2 mins to hammersmith
15:59.53AndyMillarthen 5-10 more from there
16:00.01*** join/#gllug mindbendr (n=neveraga@82.196.231.29)
16:04.12AndyMillarthough I don't actually work for Betfair ;)
16:08.17mindbendrcould someone explain me what time zone or setting should I use for the servers in London
16:08.29mindbendri'm a bit puzzled about all GMT,UTC and `London` settings on centos
16:08.50mindbendrI need the time to get changed on sunday (running ntpd)
16:10.02BlaptoWhy do you want the time zone to change on a server?
16:10.30Blaptotypically people just run UTC on their servers and mentally compensate for daylight savings time.
16:10.54mindbendrBlapto: some of the apps rely on that apparently
16:11.06mindbendrBlapto: the apps that's developed by the company itself
16:11.15ChoHagThen set the TZ variable when running it.
16:11.19ChoHagTo Europe/London
16:11.21mindbendrBlapto: and have users from the states etc
16:11.51BlaptoYou do know that the states go into DST on a different date?
16:12.12mindbendrBlapto: no that's not the issue exactly
16:12.44mindbendrwhen I run `date` command, it gives BST (british summer time)
16:12.50mindbendrThu Oct 22 17:12:25 BST 2009
16:12.59mindbendris it something I should worry about?
16:13.13BlaptoWell, we are in British Summer Time.
16:13.27AndyMillaroh god
16:13.28mindbendrand cat /etc/sysconfig/clock gives UTC=true and false on some of the servers
16:13.31BlaptoI don't know whether or not you should be worrying about it.  Sounds like the apps might, but I don't know.
16:13.33AndyMillarservers should always run UTC :(
16:13.56BlaptoBut yes, traditionally you choose UTC and disable DST on a server.
16:14.19mindbendrif it's UTC, shouldn't it say UTC instead of BST?
16:14.29mindbendreven though it's set UTC=true in sysconfig/clock
16:14.47AndyMillarwhat Blapto said
16:15.29BlaptoWhat's ZONE set to?
16:15.40Blapto# cat /etc/sysconfig/clock
16:15.40BlaptoZONE="UTC"
16:15.40BlaptoUTC=false
16:15.40BlaptoARC=false
16:15.40Blapto# date
16:15.41BlaptoThu Oct 22 16:15:15 UTC 2009
16:15.57mindbendrzone is europe/london
16:16.09mindbendrZONE="Europe/London"
16:16.09mindbendrUTC=true
16:16.09mindbendrARC=false
16:16.43BlaptoThat's the problem
16:17.04Blaptothe UTC bit defines what the hardware clock is set to
16:17.09BlaptoNot whether or not the server is in UTC
16:17.13mindbendrah
16:17.22Blaptohttp://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/en-US/Reference_Guide/s2-sysconfig-clock.html
16:17.33ChoHagWell asking what timezone a server's 'in' doesn't make much sense.
16:18.01mindbendrso If I have a ntpd running, my zone is London and when I type `date` it says BST
16:18.06mindbendram i screwed or not on sunday
16:18.16BlaptoDepends what the application expects to happen
16:18.27ChoHagntp doesn't pay any attention to timezones, only the hw clock
16:18.30mindbendrit expects the date to be changed on sunday
16:18.33ChoHagLinux sorts out DST on its own.
16:18.50mindbendri'm all confused
16:18.50BlaptoThe time will change on Sunda
16:18.52BlaptoSunday
16:19.00BlaptoYou'll get 2AM-3AM twice.
16:19.30antiphaseUnless you log in UTC, which is why we do it
16:20.08mindbendrantiphase: if you use UTC, it won't change right?
16:20.17antiphaseCorrect
16:20.24mindbendrantiphase: so all i have to make sure is `zone=europe/london` and ntpd running?
16:20.42BlaptoWell, that depends on what you want to happen.
16:21.17mindbendrBlapto: i want the time to be changed as on my watch
16:21.23antiphaseYou don't need to bother with time zones at all
16:21.30BlaptoSo just leave it alone
16:21.33mindbendrlol
16:21.35antiphaseYou don't want the time changing on servers
16:21.49BlaptoBut what you want is, well, the wrong thing to want.
16:21.50mindbendrantiphase: they want it, not me
16:21.58antiphaseIf you do have locality-sensitive stuff, then do use time zones, but still set the clock to UTC
16:22.35mindbendrantiphase: so when I type in `date` it's gonna show the right time but the actual clock will be UTC
16:22.50ChoHagThat's what it does already.
16:22.55antiphaseIF your TZ environment var is set, yes
16:23.07mindbendrif UTC=false, it doesn't right?
16:23.14ChoHagdate tells you whatever the time is at the TZ variable.
16:23.22mindbendrdate says BST
16:23.44ChoHagecho $TZ will say Europe/London
16:24.10mindbendrit doesn't :D
16:24.18BlaptoThat's because your /etc/sysconfig/clock does
16:24.28antiphaseIt probably won't unless you set it
16:24.30ChoHagOh. Well it's getting it from somewhere.
16:24.40antiphase/etc/locatime will have a zone file from /usr/share/zoneinfo copied into it
16:24.43antiphaselocaltime
16:25.22mindbendrantiphase: that's fine
16:28.12antiphasetbh, I've never configured DeadRat to mess about with clocks, but I'd say your best bet is to set UTC=yes and ZONE='Whichever/Zone' and it will do what you want
16:28.41antiphaseYour logs will be monotonic, and the n00b users that expect servers to have locally-correct times will be happy in their ignorance
16:34.00Blaptoantiphase: that's not what the UTC line means
16:34.07BlaptoUTC= refers to the hardware clock
16:34.43antiphasecouldn't be arsed to read the undocumented scripts
16:35.06antiphaseI don't think it makes any difference though. If the clock is supposed to be UTC, you set the clock to UTC
17:12.23mindbendrhave a good evening
17:19.47Mohanyou can use tzselect and set the time zone.
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17:35.40*** join/#gllug rhowe (n=rhowe@2002:4e20:3f1b:0:0:0:0:1)
17:35.48rhoweis in the Pembury
17:37.26BlaptoAnd using IPv6!  Fancy!
17:37.40wethrinHello rhowe
17:37.43wethrinDrink one for me!
17:37.48rhowehello Dan!
17:37.54rhowewethrin: I am!
17:38.08wethrinHurrah!
17:38.09rhoweBlapto: 6to4 so i'm cheating
17:38.15AndyMillarwill, at some point, do ipv6
17:38.41wethrinWell, I'm off to orchestra
17:38.44wethrinSo have fun, you folk!
17:39.06rhoweAndyMillar: it's quite cool' but unless you personally have a use for it, about the only public service is ipv6.google.com
17:39.30rhoweoh, and freenode ipv6
17:41.38AndyMillar:p
17:42.41rhoweprobably the best thing you'll get out of it is a review of your firewall rules
17:44.57rhoweit's made me seriously consider just running iptables rulesets on every host with the routers just filtering for sanity purposes
18:06.42ChoHagI got ipv6 at my isp, but they only gave me a tiny subnet which I can't split up.
18:07.06ChoHagMaybe when I get this new router in place I'll ask again for a larger slice.
18:14.30antiphaseA tiny /64?
18:14.51ChoHagYeah. 'tiny'.
18:15.45antiphaseI've got a /48 from SixXS and I use at least 3 /64s out of the 64k available
18:31.29Blaptohometime
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18:31.38rhoweChoHag: that's silly of them. every ipv4 address gets a /48 with 6to4
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