IRC log for #gllug on 20090827

00:36.55*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@n219073057173.netvigator.com)
06:18.03*** join/#gllug sabinef72 (n=sabinef7@ns.popipo.fr)
07:55.24*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@92.27.147.90)
08:03.21MohanMorning!
08:04.00DiscordianUKMorn
08:12.54yaMattgood morning Mohan, DiscordianUK
08:13.42DiscordianUKmorning
08:16.53yaMatthad a rough night, i reckon I had 3 hrs sleep
08:17.33DiscordianUKI didn't have much more
08:18.31cpufreakI had a good 8 hours
08:18.33cpufreakmaybe more
08:18.39cpufreakI feel so rested, its wonderful
08:19.15yaMatti am envious cpufreak
08:20.31cpufreakif its any consolation I was hungover yesterday
08:21.12yaMattah, makes sense
08:37.21MohanDoes anyone update the production server as and when the updates are available ?
08:38.06cpufreakno, test on dev environments first
08:39.58Mohancpufreak: Its a hosting server and there are 100+ sites in it,
08:40.27Mohansometimes when php version changes old code throws errors
08:42.02halihence the test/dev/staging/uat environment first
08:48.15MohanHere test/live sites resides on the same server
08:48.39MohanI am just wondering is it normal to leave the server running as it is now.
08:50.32MohanIts been up for 998 days and the previous admin didn't bother to apply any updates.
08:57.29halii'd consider both that and the fact you have test on the same baox as very bad practice
08:57.40haliespecially if someone is paying to have their website hosted by you
09:04.43haliwe probably have twice the number of test/qa/dev systems compared to prod
09:05.37cpufreakwe have more kit in our performance environments than in prod
09:05.47MohanWhen it comes to big companies, they dont mind spending on servers
09:07.11Mohanbut if its a small company, they would try to fit everything within the budget.
09:07.25haliwe fit most things withing the budget
09:07.37haliwe just write a more accurate budget at the begining of the year
09:36.23ChoHag_Mohan: uptime is irrelevant.
09:36.29ChoHag_You should reboot often, just to prove you can.
10:08.48z00daxhumm
10:09.08z00daxI'm guessing that core/socket detection by the linux kernel is something that only works for newer cpu's...
10:09.17z00daxeither that, or that bit of code is unaware of HT
10:10.03Leedsz00dax: you seeing 2 threads described as 2 cores/CPUs?
10:10.58z00daxCPU: Physical Processor ID: 3
10:10.58z00daxCPU: Processor Core ID: 0
10:11.04Leedshmm... so Chrome identifies itself as "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US) AppleWebKit/530.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/2.0.172.39 Safari/530.5"
10:11.14z00daxits a 2 socket machine, ( Tyan S5350 ) with 2 cpu's in there. but HT is turned on
10:11.27Leedsthat's Mozilla, WebKit, KHTML, Gecko, Chrome and Safari all in one agent string
10:11.30z00daxand I was trying to work out why the 'noht' kernel option was not making any diff
10:11.42z00daxnice :)
10:11.47Leedsso it should be 2x2?
10:11.55z00daxyea
10:12.04ChoHag_Is there really any point in identifying your web browser any more?
10:12.24wethrinYes. Because IE's rendering is still a bit broken
10:12.24z00daxon a much newer machine - amd64x2 - it can see the cores, and shows 1 cpu, with 2 cores.
10:12.36ChoHag_OK, So there's a point in IE doing it.
10:13.15wethrinhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid3
10:13.19Leedsalso tends to get used to identify mobile browsers, I think - although that should be done with a CSS media-type, in theory
10:13.26wethrinScroll down to the rendering tables
10:14.50Leedsz00dax: something like https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=440321 ?
10:15.24z00daxhttp://www.centos.org/docs/5/html/5.2/Installation_Guide/ch-bootopts-x86.html
10:15.34z00daxmentions a 'noht' however, that has zero impact here
10:15.45z00daxLeeds: ah, just like that
10:16.33Leedssee, if you used a real distro like RHEL, you wouldn't have that problem... :P
10:16.57z00daxthe hotplug for cpu stuff in there looks very interesting. I didnt even kow it was there in
10:17.01z00daxLeeds: :D
10:17.16Leedsanyway, the result came up from a search for 'kernel noht' - lots of other things to read there
10:18.21bilarhz00dax: speaking of nothing, went to see the house yesterday
10:18.34bilarhz00dax: think we're gonna go for it :)
10:18.35z00daxwhich one ?
10:18.49bilarhthe one in petts wood
10:18.51LeedsI think the only place I've seen any discussion of offlining CPU cores is for suspend/hibernate - suggested to offline all but one core/CPU first, for stability
10:19.14z00daxbilarh: nice
10:19.34z00daxhttp://pastebin.centos.org/28439 <-- Leeds
10:20.19Leedswhere does that come from?
10:20.21z00daxI've got a machine doing that to me, and it *seems* to be HT related. its a Tyan s5350 running 2.8Ghz Xeons, and I may have goofed up by updating the bios on that to the latest ver tyan have
10:20.50Leedsno idea
10:20.54z00daxwhich, very conveninently, seems to s/2.8,3.0,3.2,3.4/3.0,3.2,3.4/ the support Xeon models
10:21.01z00daxLeeds: mcelog that is
10:21.15bilarhz00dax: well, it's got a garage and much more storage space than the current one... and it's got a garden, and it's 200m from the station :)
10:21.36bilarhwhich arguably is as far as the current place, but at least now we wont have a big parking garage overlooking our back yard
10:21.36Leedsoops
10:21.46z00daxwith no way to go back a bios version, the only thing Tyan recommend is disable the HT, if that does not work, goto 1 cpu only.
10:22.20z00daxbilarh: its also not that bad an idea, petts wood. :)
10:22.36Leedsz00dax: you could try a non-SMP kernel?  that should only see one CPU/thread, I guess
10:22.46z00daxyea
10:23.01Leedsnot ideal, of course
10:23.42z00daxin other news, $vendor turns on ipv6 for a client, client falls over and has a fit.
10:24.09z00daxwasent counting on zeroconf/ipv6 just making things work, everywhere, on every machine, within 5 seconds of the DC doing the allocation.
10:25.15z00daxLeeds: no, I'd like to hang onto as many cores / HT's as possible.
10:25.38z00daxbut if its a case of either junking this machine or using it with 1 cpu, 1 cpu is better
10:26.39Leedsideally, I guess you'd want 2x1 (no HT) if that's going to work
10:27.47z00daxyea
10:30.44Leedswell... good luck with that :)
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10:39.55*** join/#gllug morsing (i=morsing@emil.morsing.cc)
10:40.04morsingflips_and_rails: Where's bilarh?
10:44.40dick_turpinGroan
10:47.22bilarhdick_turpin: :D
10:48.27dick_turpinbilarh: All right winkle?
10:49.37*** join/#gllug londonmet050 (n=h@cpc4-finc11-0-0-cust149.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
10:54.44z00daxdick_turpin: beer
10:55.15dick_turpinz00dax: Groan
10:56.00londonmet050yo guys
10:59.42halihttp://thechap.net/content/section_archive/moustache-news.html
10:59.45halioh dear!
11:00.57wethrinThe Chap++
11:00.59wethrinI should subscribe
11:03.23haliyes
11:03.24haliit's ace
11:08.38dick_turpinwethrin: Huzzah! You have money then, welcome to my emporium sir let me delight you with our fantastic opportunities.
11:10.32wethrinWell, it's been payday today
11:11.36dick_turpinI know, I'm watching you :-)
11:11.40wethrinheh
11:11.49wethrinGet off Facebook, and do some work
11:11.50wethrin!
11:12.04cpufreakwhat kind of difference am I likely to see per core, clock for clock between a Santa Rosa and a Shanghai Opteron core?
11:12.09dick_turpinNot on it :-P
11:12.39dick_turpinI have other ways of monitoring you Mwahahaha
11:28.38wethrinHm. I appear to have subscribed to the Chap
11:28.42wethrinblames hali
11:29.02morsinglondonmet050!
11:29.27morsingdick_turpin: Why's wethrin upset?
11:29.33wethrinwtf?
11:29.55morsingwethrin: Please coem back :(
11:30.00haliwethrin: s/blames/praises/
11:30.37dick_turpinGroan
11:30.46*** part/#gllug morsing (i=morsing@emil.morsing.cc)
11:30.54dick_turpinHuzzah!
11:34.42*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@92.27.147.90)
11:38.36DiscordianUKGood day
11:47.53*** join/#gllug celesteh (n=celesteh@sblug/member/celesteh)
11:50.48londonmet050hey dis
11:50.51londonmet050what time did u woke up
11:52.54DiscordianUKAt 6am
11:57.32*** join/#gllug londo (n=georgiou@82.133.49.59)
11:59.01londonmet050little sleep then
12:00.41DiscordianUKNot a lot aye
12:01.00DiscordianUKI'll sleep this afternoon
12:01.28londonmet050what r u up to
12:01.40londonmet050coding or something
12:03.35DiscordianUKNot a lot , looking at LMMS , a music synth package
12:04.56londonmet050cool
12:07.35DiscordianUKand yourself?
12:12.52londonmet050i am going to shopping
12:13.02londonmet050and then code in some python
12:13.10Leedsyay!
12:13.12DiscordianUKheh
12:13.29DiscordianUKrecommends Komodo
12:13.50Leedssuggests vim
12:14.13londonmet050see u later guys
12:16.46gregjhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8223855.stm
12:17.36gregjall cheer up, but no one say, that questions get so easy, that my 12 year old brother in poland is able to answer science questions from this year's gcse
12:17.52bilarhgregj: this is exactly it...
12:17.57bilarhgregj: it's a complete joke
12:18.23gregjyup
12:18.39gregjso much for 'british' pride.
12:18.54Leedsgregj: you want to talk to morsing about that
12:19.02gregjhe is not british
12:19.05gregjso ..
12:19.11gregj:P
12:19.13bilarhreally? what's he saying on the subject?
12:19.19Leedshe's *proud* to be British
12:19.25Leedsor at least not to be Danish
12:19.27bilarhoh that part :)
12:19.40gregjwell, pubs here (northern ireland) are full of 'proud to be british' blokes
12:20.02gregjI don't think the britain is proud of them tho
12:20.02gregj;)
12:23.03wethrinhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8222421.stm
12:23.48Leedswow
12:24.17yaMattyeah, i saw that, i lived in plymouth for 3 years and had no idea that Toshiba was there
12:24.29Leedsso British: "The early sets had limited appeal - there were no broadcasts until 1929..."
12:24.37bilarhhehe :D
12:24.50gregj'made between 42-51, of course it is b&w' - he assumes this year's GCSE graduates (?) wouldn't know that
12:25.03wethrinBit of a Catch 22, really
12:25.40Leedsgregj: and only the more expensive models had remote controls!
12:26.01gregjtruelya supprise :)
12:26.18wethrinLooknig at that TV musuem on the video - they should have a little broadcast setup, so they can actually show what the TV pictures looked like on those old TVs
12:27.42gregjyaMatt: I was supprised to know , that nissan still makes cars in uk
12:28.16gregj(not that the cars they make are great, but still, cos of the labour in comparison with other countries is quite high in uk)
12:28.40Leedsyeah, but we all know that Poles are only good for fixing toilets
12:28.45yaMattits strange to think all this fuss has been made about keeping car production in the UK
12:28.54yaMattwhen TV production has been allowed to slip by
12:29.22LeedsyaMatt: TV production involves a *lot* less jobs and investment
12:29.32Leedsand prestige, to be honest
12:29.39wethrinhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8159774.stm
12:29.58wethrinCars employ a lot more people than building TVs
12:29.59Leedswethrin: having a random BBC link day?
12:30.01wethrinLeeds: Yes.
12:33.14yaMattbut if you expand that out to other areas of production that we dont tend to think about
12:33.48yaMattsuch as, i dunno, furniture production, i bet it adds up to more than the car industry
12:34.04yaMattmeh, i feel i may be making a fuss over nothing
12:34.20Leedshave you seen the stats on the decimation of the UK's manufacturing sector?
12:35.26yaMattcant say i have
12:38.29bilarhleeds: don't bring that old chestnut up again... we can just sell coffes and lattes to each other - that's *real* productivity ;)
12:39.02Leedsbilarh: to each other, and to bankers... oh, wait...
12:39.09bilarh:(
12:39.22bilarhhow about we sell "services" to the chinese or something
12:39.35bilarhtoday it's financial services
12:39.46bilarhtomorrow - who knows... maybe shoepolishing services
12:40.14Leedsyeah, except this lot over here are actually quite happy selling services to each other
12:40.26bilarhexactly, they don't need us :)
12:45.15gregjhttp://www.riemurasia.net/jylppy/albumit/mmedia/p/nmh/8qm2/69610/650312353.jpg
12:45.16gregjlol
12:46.20yaMattgregj, hahah
12:47.19Leedsthat's an *ancient* joke
12:48.52gregjnever heard it before
12:55.33*** join/#gllug Armand|Laptop (n=me@host86-137-89-9.range86-137.btcentralplus.com)
14:10.30londonmet050yo leeds
14:10.42londonmet050Your the one that went to work in HK right
14:10.46Leedsyes
14:11.02londonmet050you still there
14:11.14londonmet050or u back to UK
14:11.44Leedsstill here
14:12.05londonmet050in HK
14:12.11londonmet050how is life there
14:12.14londonmet050better or good
14:13.15Leedsgood :)
14:14.22z00daxthe important question is - whats the beer like ?
14:16.32Leedsplentiful, easily available 24/7, and similarly-priced to London, I think
14:16.45z00daxokay then.
14:16.47Leedscan buy beer 24/7 in 7-11 :)
14:17.09Leedsso after a heavy coding session, when one feels the need at 3am... it's a few minutes walk away
14:17.09londonmet050z00dax: what is ur fav. beer
14:17.28z00daxi dont have a specific one
14:17.49londonmet050u like guiness draught
14:18.05Armand|LaptopI'm trying to remember that japanese one...
14:18.18Armand|LaptopThey have it at the bar where my missus works.
14:18.22z00daxi prefer .be brews as a generic thing, but there is much local stuff that goes down well too
14:18.24Leedsasahi?
14:18.41z00daxthe rise, or rather the re-rise of the micro brewries, ++
14:18.43Armand|LaptopKirin
14:18.51Leedsah, that too...
14:18.55Armand|LaptopTis nice. :)
14:19.03z00daxKirin is decent
14:19.27Armand|LaptopLOL, It's owned by an American corp. :P
14:19.30Leedsthe local(ly-brewed) stuff here is Carlsberg, San Miguel and Tsing Tao
14:20.07LeedsPhilippine San Miguel, rather than Spanish
14:25.33londonmet050what u code on leeds
14:29.48*** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
15:01.49halihm, i think i got a payrise and noone told me
15:01.58Armand|Laptoplol
15:02.15haliwe've just had payreviews but i haven't had one yet but my latest payslip shows some extra cash
15:02.24Armand|LaptopI thought the missus had too.. when she told me she was paid £2200 this month.
15:02.30Armand|LaptopShe meant £1200.. >_<
15:04.24z00daxhali: nice!
15:04.34z00daxbank it and spend it, just in case they want it back later
15:05.02Armand|Laptoplaunder it.. send it my way and I'll sort it out. ;)
15:05.10Armand|Laptop^_^
15:05.11haliall spent already, my girlfriend has been to designers guild again :-)
15:05.19Armand|Laptoplol
15:28.38z00daxhttp://www.maproom.co.uk/maps/anagrammap.gif <-- from another channel post
15:29.41Armand|LaptopO_o
15:41.30cpufreakFUCKING AUDITD.
15:41.51cpufreakif selinux is disabeld, the system should *not* kernel panic if you stop auditd.
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17:26.25*** join/#gllug Armand|Laptop (n=me@80-194-3-49.cable.ubr10.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
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19:03.41londonmet050yo guys
19:03.48londonmet050Dis you there
19:03.58londonmet050I had a good nap as well
19:09.58Armand|LaptopHiya
19:36.50*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@92.27.147.90)
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19:55.31londonmet050hey armand
19:55.34londonmet050what's up
21:07.32*** join/#gllug DiscordianUK (n=ch@92.27.147.90)
21:13.47DiscordianUKgood evening
21:47.48londonmet050Hey dis
21:47.51londonmet050how is your nap
21:49.43DiscordianUKWas good I was shattered
22:03.48londonmet050what r u up to
22:04.19DiscordianUKWatching telly on this laptop
22:04.26DiscordianUKIRc, web browsing
22:06.53DiscordianUKYou?
22:14.32londonmet050IRC, Watching movie, reading something "practical packet analysis"
22:14.48londonmet050Is anything good on tele
22:15.22DiscordianUKCSI
22:15.47DiscordianUKSeen this http://wifinetnews.com/archives/2009/08/new_wpa_exploit_presented_in_paper.html
22:27.21londonmet050interesting
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