IRC log for #gllug on 20090402

01:57.41*** join/#gllug londo__ (n=georgiou@82.133.49.59)
03:44.34*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@static-ip-251-82-134-202.rev.dyxnet.com)
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04:05.34DiscordianUKre
06:46.49*** join/#gllug j0nr (n=j0nr@5acc9d74.bb.sky.com)
07:05.33morsingj0nr!
07:06.13j0nrmorning
07:12.59ChoHagHeh. Pictures of the damaged fibre from yesterday's enta net outage.
07:33.19morsing!!
07:33.24morsingOutage? Where?
07:33.32ChoHagHere.
07:36.58halisingle isp?
07:37.02halino bgp_
07:37.55morsing"here" :)  Einstein would have loved that
07:38.06morsingMy Internet was fine
07:45.42ChoHagAnyone who resells Enta.
07:45.54ChoHagAnd possibly NTL as apparently that's their carrier at that point.
07:46.25ChoHagUnless ntl stands for something relevant.
07:47.04morsingworks for NTL
07:47.24morsingChoHag: What does this mean:
07:47.24morsingsetsid: Operation not permitted.
07:48.15ChoHagIt means your're not allowed to setsid.
07:48.30morsingNice
07:48.41morsingWhat did I change to cause this?
07:49.01halichange the group permissions of a user?
07:50.15bilarhman setsid
07:50.28halibilarh: troll!
07:50.35bilarhalthough, to be honest, i don't actually understand the man page
07:51.08morsinghali: You might have a point...
07:51.47morsingNo, that looks fine and I didn't change that
07:52.00morsingtwbis005s# man setsid
07:52.00morsingManual entry for setsid not found or not installed.
07:53.07ChoHagapt-get install manpages-dev
07:53.15morsingidiot
07:55.57bilarhERRORS
07:55.58bilarh<PROTECTED>
07:55.58bilarh<PROTECTED>
07:55.58bilarh<PROTECTED>
07:56.20morsingNice
07:56.28morsingAll I did was upgrading ssh...
07:56.40bilarhclearly you shouldn't have done that :D
07:56.47morsingI know...
07:56.54bilarhhave you tried running as root?
07:57.04morsingI can't run - too fat
07:57.22bilarhapt-get install tesco-dietplan
07:57.24morsingI've got priviledge seperation and strictmodes enabled
07:58.02bilarhpriv separation sounds like something applicable to this, no?
07:58.05morsingWhat changed between 3.8 and 5.0? Surely can't be that much?
07:58.15morsingbilarh: Could be, but I've always run that
07:58.19bilarhhonestly, i don't quite understand the concept of "process groups", so can't help
07:59.04bilarhso it goes wrong when?
07:59.10morsingOh cool, 5.0 can set config per user
07:59.10bilarhwhen you try to ssh into the box?
07:59.19bilarhhttp://monkey.org/openbsd/archive/tech/0206/msg00301.html
07:59.44morsingNo, ssh itself works fine but if the ADMCHG flag is set on the account it fails when trying to fork the passwd change process
08:01.11morsingIt does log me in though but hangs trying to change session whatever that is
08:01.36morsingdebug1: session_input_channel_req: session 0 req shell
08:06.39morsingChange PriviledgeSeperation but didn't help
08:06.42morsingChanged
08:06.51Mohanmorning
08:07.03bilarhstart-up time is getting close for my car :D
08:07.09bilarhmorsing: ^^
08:07.19bilarhthe one with the turbo from the boat
08:07.24morsingMohan!
08:07.24bilarhor small ship, i mean
08:07.33Mohanmorsing!
08:07.37Mohanhow are you ?
08:07.38morsingbilarh: :(
08:07.40bilarhjust building the last parts of the exhaust now
08:07.42morsingNot good :(
08:07.53bilarhthen i've still got to connect the external wastegate to the exhaust side (manifold done)
08:08.08bilarhbut after that, i can actuall turn the engine over :)
08:08.15Mohanbilarh: Are you doing it by yourself ?
08:08.19bilarhoh i need to make the oil drain from the turbo too
08:08.20bilarhmohan: yep
08:08.54Mohanthats cool.
08:09.08morsing:(
08:09.10morsing:'(
08:09.14bilarhafter i've turned the engine over, i'll hook up the intercooler too hopefully :)
08:09.16bilarhand then mapping
08:09.22bilarhmosrinG: what you crying about?
08:10.02morsing:'(
08:12.23Mohanmorsing: http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/energy-the-key-to-success/
08:12.53Mohanhave  a look at that webpage, it has got some intresting facts.
08:13.48morsingOk, there's a patch out for this - it's a bug
08:15.58morsingMohan: Does it have interesting facts about silly bugs in OpenSSH?
08:21.59Mohanmorsing: you can read and find it out.
08:34.51halifucking protesters, should be shot
08:35.03Leedshali: don't worry, I'm sure they will be
08:35.12halithe government should do something
08:35.25halijust load them up in trucks and send them off
08:35.50Leedsthat'll probably happen soon as well
08:37.26bilarhhali: *nnnnnnnnnghhhh*
08:37.36bilarhis struggling not to go into a rant
08:38.02halibilarh: the government will save us!
08:38.03morsingBeer
08:38.24bilarhbeer will save us
08:38.57halidon't be such a hippie
09:11.58wethrinmmm, beer
09:15.43morsingCawfy is hot - OpenSSH is not...
09:22.27wethrinother sshes exist
09:22.37morsingThey do...
09:22.55morsingBut getting a fairly new version is always a problem
09:23.17morsingAnd compiling it yourself usually means coding the ADMCHG stuff yourself
09:24.13wethrintrue
10:06.09morsinglondo!
10:41.23morsing\o/
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11:00.03ChoHagShall I have chinese for lunch and potentially lie to my wife, or have sandwiches and continue to be hungry until dinner?
11:00.42wethrinHave Chinese. You'll be hungry again soon after, so that's okay
11:01.02ChoHagNo the chinese here's pretty good when it comes to bulk.
11:02.46wethrinhm
11:04.28cpufreaktell your wife her sandwiches suck
11:04.30cpufreakand aren't enough
11:05.06ChoHagShe didn't make any today - I'd have to buy them from M&S.
11:05.13ChoHagOr the terrible cafe over the road
11:07.17*** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
11:08.53z00daxif anyone is looking for hosting / colo in london - I highly recommend the coreix.net guys
11:14.10haliz00dax: do they have their own facility or leech of someone else?
11:14.27z00daxthey have a large chunk of the vsnl setup in Stratford, above the chipshop
11:14.59wethrinHow much are they?
11:15.23z00daxI shifted about 2.8 TiB out of their network in 5 hrs
11:15.55z00daxand can get 22MB/sec from there to the hetzner.de setup in Germany and about 18MB/sec into theplanet US
11:16.45halinice
11:17.49halifuck, did tata buy vsnl
11:18.45z00daxlong time back that was
11:19.13z00daxthankfully they got rid of all the wierdo's who used to run vsnl
11:21.03z00daxwethrin: http://www.coreix.net/colo/byserver/
11:21.31wethrinEh. Bit pricy for me.
11:21.41wethrin£60 isn't quite worth a colo
11:22.06z00daxreally ?
11:22.19wethrinNot to me
11:22.22wethrin£50 is about my limit
11:22.31wethrinAbove that, I may as well go for a virtual machine
11:29.26z00daxI tend to think of colo as the best option for odd stuff, like to put 2x1.5TiB drives and use as a backup space
11:30.52wethrinI don't need quite that much :)
11:39.57morsingbilarh:
11:39.59morsing<PROTECTED>
11:39.59morsing<PROTECTED>
11:39.59morsing<PROTECTED>
11:39.59morsing<PROTECTED>
11:40.01morsing<PROTECTED>
11:40.09morsingz00dax!
11:40.40morsingdick_turpin!
11:40.52dick_turpinmorsing: :-)
11:40.59*** join/#gllug [Discordian] (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
11:43.18morsingFeck man, OpenSSH still support this stuff:
11:43.20morsing#ifdef _UNICOS
11:43.20morsing<PROTECTED>
11:43.20morsing<PROTECTED>
11:43.20morsing<PROTECTED>
11:43.23morsing<PROTECTED>
11:43.25morsing#endif
11:47.26haliyes, why not?
11:47.30halilots of cray's around
11:50.05z00daxmorsing: !
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11:55.33morsinghali: Not really
11:55.45halireally
11:55.51morsinghali: Not really
11:56.10halisimilar to i/os ... lots of legacy systems around
11:56.23morsingi/os?
11:56.59halior do they call it i5/os this month?
12:00.24morsingThat's not a legacy system, still being developed and sold
12:05.15haliit's very legacy
12:05.22halicray is still being developed and sold too
12:05.40z00daxwho owns them these days ?
12:06.34morsinghali: How many Cray's do you think there are in Britain? Also, you have a slightly incorrect understanding of legacy
12:06.49morsingiPods are legacy, btw
12:07.05halifew hundred cray's in the uk i would guess
12:07.13halifew thousand as400's
12:07.23morsingSo not a lot compared to iSeries I'd think
12:07.36haliim not talking numbers
12:08.02wethrinwhat's your definition of a legacy system, then, morsing?
12:08.08haliim just saying both are still in use and there is no reason openssh should drop unicos support as long as someone is willing to maintain it (and cray do i would imagine)
12:08.24halis/in use/in use an dying/g
12:09.17morsingI know but they're specifically supporting OpenSSH for Cray but everytime they release a new version someone has to point ADMCHG flag out to them so they can "fix" it. Everytime - and there are many thousands systems in the UK alone. That's annoying... It's the same routine they have to put in everytime, what goes wrong?
12:09.40morsingwethrin: iPod is a legacy system
12:09.47halithen IBM should contribute with a fix?
12:09.54morsingLegacy is something that;s out of development and support
12:09.56wethrinmorsing: That is not what I asked
12:10.08wethrinAnd iPods are still being developed
12:10.19morsingwethrin: So is iSeries and Cray
12:10.25morsingSo why the difference?
12:10.26wethrinright....
12:10.31wethrinso why do you say the iPod is a legacy system?
12:10.38wethringiven it doesn't fit with your definition
12:10.44morsingBecause hali said iSeries were legacy
12:10.52morsingI was being sarchastic
12:11.16haliiseries is only developed so people don't migrate their stuff to linux
12:11.22halithey've scrapped the hardware line already
12:11.32morsingwethrin: But you always turn against me as a matter of principle. Why, I'll never understand...
12:11.34haliand run it on basic p6 boxes
12:11.48morsinghali: They haven't. They merged it
12:11.54morsing"basic"???
12:12.03haliyes, very basic hardware, pc's with remote access cards
12:12.15morsinglol :)  You really are extremely dumb
12:12.59halithat's not very nice to say
12:14.13halii may be winding you up for being a narrow minded bigot
12:15.39bilarhwell, i never :D
12:15.44morsingErm... Yeah, because Linux users or people here are never narrow minded...
12:15.57haliusually not
12:16.02morsingRight...
12:17.30haliunless we are talking about the black coat perl mongers
12:17.42halithey redefine narrow minded
12:19.10morsingMost Linux users I come across are narrow minded. They only know Linux and think it's so brilliant that they will even start arguing it's better than something they have no knowledge about.
12:20.21bilarhfight, fight, fight
12:20.28bilarhputs through the windows at a nearby rbs branch
12:20.28morsingbilarh: Not really - grow up
12:21.11morsingbilarh: Do you think it's sensible to say A is better than B when you've never even seen B?
12:22.50dick_turpinsells tickets
12:24.20z00daxmorsing: that is true to quite an extent - most linux users have only otherwise used windows or in some cases macos..
12:24.32z00daxbut thats fine. the fact that they can use linux now, is a good win.
12:25.06z00daxits reasonable to argue that perhaps *some*BSD might have been the option instead of linux today - but BSD's just were not going to make it - thats a long discussion in itself
12:25.37morsingz00dax: I never said otherwise - but can you maybe a little bit understand I find it annoying constantly having teenage Linux twats shout at me how brilliant Linux is compared to everything else when all they know is Windows and Linux?
12:25.57z00daxmorsing: absolutely. I see and hear that too
12:27.12z00daxso whats the opensolaris to run on sparc h/w these days ? it seems their own opensolaris release is all x86 only
12:31.13bilarhz00dax: bsd's suck from a driver point of view, or at least used to do
12:31.35ChoHagSo, on April the 24th I will either be out of a job or forced to give two rather than one month's notice.
12:31.57bilarhmorsing: i hear what you're saying, but honestly I don't think anyone will say that hali "just knows linux and windows" ;-)
12:32.02ChoHagCan I find a new job in 3 weeks?
12:33.04bilarhchohag: what's the market like?
12:33.19ChoHagShit.
12:34.01morsingbilarh: NEither do I - More than a decade of solid Linux & AIX, add to that a couple of painful years of Solaris, a year or so involvinig HP/UX and SCO plus playing around with BSD and running BSD server for about four years. I think I am justified when I speak up...
12:34.09z00daxmorsing: you do need to admit though that these days, linux is pretty much all there is out there on the *nix front.
12:34.25morsingz00dax: No - you're being narrow minded as well now
12:34.29z00daxin most cases, IBM only gets business in the large sector based around their work on linux
12:34.40z00daxmorsing: well, I am only talking about what I see in the markets.
12:34.41morsingz00dax: That's absolutely untrue
12:35.02morsingz00dax: You're in the wrong markets - pSeries sells more and more - it's a very big market
12:35.09z00daxwell, IBM has 1 order in China in 2008 for an aix installed app - they had 1800+ on Linux
12:35.23morsingChina is the wrong market then
12:35.27z00daxmorsing: IBM makes the powerpc chip in a part time production faciltiy
12:35.30morsingNo
12:35.38z00daxthey dont even have enough business to keep their setup running 24/7
12:35.48morsingI don't believe that - prove it
12:35.49z00daxsony dont buy the cell from IBM anymore :) so you cant include that
12:36.54z00daxmorsing: i can prolly dig up info on this
12:37.09morsingNice
12:37.17z00daxeven ABB moved from aix in the last few years for their train management systems.
12:37.38z00daxalthough they did move to windows :)
12:38.29haliz00dax: they can't run opensolaris on sparc since they can't open source lots of old hardware drivers due to stupid contracts
12:38.41morsingz00dax: "even"?
12:39.20z00daxhali: ah...
12:39.51bilarhwe're moving away from all unixes onto linux as well
12:39.55z00daxmorsing: train / electric control systems have been a large AIX market for decades. ABB has been their biggest 'partner'
12:39.59bilarhwe've got about 10000 servers worldwide
12:40.07z00daxhali: so whats the best option ?
12:40.29haliz00dax: Solaris Express Developer edition run on sparc and is fairly up to date
12:40.32z00daxalso, i need to find out what sort of a cdrom / dvdrom this blade1k can take
12:40.38z00daxlooks
12:40.49halii have one i think if you want a sparc dvd
12:41.09halii've got a 420r in a corner, dog slow cpu's though
12:41.32z00daxI've got a blade1000 here, quite nice . works usable speeds etc. but I've lost the root passwd for this thing
12:43.06z00daxthere seems to be something called OpenSolaris 2008.11 SPARC EA
12:51.22ChoHagAnybody know asuffield?
12:51.38ChoHagHe has a nifty-looking patch Debian has been asking him for years to transfer copyright of.
13:13.28z00daxpatch on what
13:14.17ChoHagcerttool in gnutls
13:15.55*** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
13:17.28z00daxdogtag!
13:17.45z00daxalthough, I need to find something large / involved enough to justify that sort of an install
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13:53.30bilarhanyone want to sponsor me for shaving my hair off? :)
13:53.34bilarhfor charity, naturally
13:53.42*** part/#gllug morsing (i=morsing@emil.morsing.cc)
14:09.11Nafallobilarh: depends on where I guess ;-)
14:09.27bilarhwell, no point in paying for shaving my balls, i already do that :)
14:12.44ChoHagSince when was this 4chan?
14:14.11cpufreakcan we opt for hair burning
14:14.19cpufreakrather than shaving?
14:14.39bilarhchohag: 4chan? :)
14:14.53bilarhcpufreak: hrm, that slot is already booked in for when i start the engine :S
14:14.58ChoHagWhicheverchan.
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23:22.41rhowehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BLACK-TREACLE-150-PER-TONNE_W0QQitemZ260386266215QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_WSJL_Wholesale_GL?hash=item260386266215&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
23:22.50rhoweAnyone have a craving for treacle?
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