IRC log for #gllug on 20080317

00:34.08*** join/#gllug Facundo (n=facundo@host.190.15.199.211.static.itcsa.net)
00:56.33*** join/#gllug secretlondon (n=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
04:45.51*** join/#gllug bilarh_ (n=henrik@bilar.co.uk)
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07:37.29morsinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark
07:43.56*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
07:44.23DiscordianMorning
08:44.15*** join/#gllug zmey_g (n=egor@87.127.26.43)
08:46.54morsingzmey_g!
09:04.59bilarh_i officially have a mid life crisis
09:05.16bilarh_i went and bought myself an electric guitar yesterday :S
09:06.22morsingonly has a stupid car where the inside always has fresh oil vaoprs and smoke, and now he can't stop coughing
09:06.34morsings/vaoprs/vapors/
09:06.49bilarh_morsing: chop the roof off, make it a convertible :)
09:06.54morsingToo cold
09:07.03bilarh_wear a scarf
09:07.07morsingToo cold
09:23.42morsingDo variables in Perl get expanded when inserted into a list or not till the element is read?
09:24.16bilarh_when it's in a string
09:24.27morsingRight, so at creating time
09:24.32morsingcreation
09:24.37bilarh_depends
09:24.47morsingWait... Yeah, I see what you mean
09:25.09morsing$DIRS = (  "$BillRun/$dir/$dir_con","$BillRun/$dir/$dir_proc","$BillRun/$dir/$di
09:25.09morsingr_split","$BillRun/$dir/$dir_DOC1","$BillRun/$dir/$dir_Audit","$BillRun/$dir/$di
09:25.09morsingr_PDF","$BillRun/$dir/$dir_Not" );
09:25.09morsingmkpath($DIRS,775);
09:25.23bilarh_yeah that would all get expanded
09:25.55morsingWhere? Before or after using in mkpath?
09:26.41bilarh_before
09:26.43bilarh_in the ""
09:26.47morsingOk
09:27.45bilarh_or well actually
09:27.54morsingOdd, that only creates the last dir in the list!
09:27.55bilarh_they get expanded as soon as they're used, i suppose you could say
09:28.07morsingOk, no way of delaying it?
09:28.08bilarh_well, first of all, $DIRS is a scalar
09:28.17bilarh_they're copied as soon as you use them
09:28.21morsingIT takes a reference to a list, how do I do that?
09:28.35bilarh_if you want to have the value updated, you need to use references
09:28.47morsingWhat's a reference?
09:28.49bilarh_use $DIRS = [ "firstdir", "seconddir" ];
09:28.53morsingOhh
09:28.59bilarh_you familiar with pointers in c?
09:29.13morsingPointers, yes, C, no
09:29.46bilarh_ok a reference is like a pointer
09:30.00morsingYes...
09:33.22morsingbilarh_: Thanks, works :)
09:34.07bilarh_np
09:56.08*** join/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk)
09:56.13morsinghuw-l!
10:02.56*** join/#gllug curson (n=curzon@79-68-13-143.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
10:06.44morsingcurson!
10:07.40ChoHagFun: http://idiots.istheshit.net/
10:07.47ChoHagAmerican Roulette maybe.
10:59.18z00daxChoHag: how was the talk
11:01.36wethrinhi ChoHag
11:01.47z00daxwethrin: !
11:02.01wethrinhi z00dax
11:02.08z00daxsince the meeting has happened already, should we have something else on the gllug site now ?
11:02.17wethrinWe could do
11:02.22*** mode/#gllug [+o wethrin] by ChanServ
11:02.40*** topic/#gllug by wethrin -> Greater London LUG - http://www.gllug.org.uk | http://planet.gllug.org.uk
11:02.42*** mode/#gllug [-o wethrin] by wethrin
11:02.58morsings/could/should/
11:03.17wethrinYes, but what. Feel free to add something :)
11:04.03morsingadd a photo of Toby to the site :)
11:04.05wethrinSo, I've had a talk request from a James Roberts about a NOC comparison, mostly focusing on Nagios
11:04.20z00daxnice
11:04.24wethrinCharlotte Barnes still wants to do a talk about using the Asus Eeepc and cycling
11:04.38wethrinAnd I'm sure we could get Steev Goodwin to talk on Minerva (home automation)
11:04.44morsingBeer!
11:05.09wethrinWho wants to take responsibility for some organisation?
11:05.13morsingBeer!
11:05.19wethrinI really don't have time now, for another 6 months or so
11:05.54*** join/#gllug heed (n=michael@ACBC0218.ipt.aol.com)
11:06.16morsingheed!
11:09.26wethrinSo. Who wants to organise the next meeting? morsing?
11:10.29morsingSteve does! Beer
11:10.38heedMorining
11:10.59wethrinNo, I think you should. You've been coming to Gllug long enough....
11:11.50morsing:-/
11:11.55morsingI live too far away
11:12.05wethrinI live further away
11:12.07morsingCan I charge my hourly rate for it?
11:12.10wethrinNo
11:12.12morsing:(
11:12.16morsingCan Toby come?
11:12.19wethrinNo
11:12.29morsingI won't do it then
11:12.32morsing:)
11:12.33wethrinbah
11:12.38wethrinNo-one wants to do it
11:13.02morsingAsk RMS to organise one!
11:13.11morsingWith *no* bloody foreigners!
11:13.36wethrinHe'd refuse, because we're not the GNU SLASH LINUX LONDON USER GROUP OMGWTFBBQ
11:13.59morsingBBQ?
11:14.08wethrinYes. BBQ.
11:14.25morsingHe's not an aussie
11:14.52wethrinBut he has no shame
11:14.58morsingmeh
11:15.01morsingWho does
11:18.29*** join/#gllug curson (n=curzon@79-68-13-143.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
11:18.48morsingcurson!
11:23.21kjalilmorning!
11:24.05z00daxhello
11:24.18kjalilz00dax: hi! thanks for the tip!
11:24.28z00daxno worries, did that fix the issue though  ?
11:24.41kjalilz00dax: unfortunately I wish it just worked straight out of the box
11:24.53z00daxwethrin: April is going to be very busy for me, but I am happy to organise the one after that
11:25.07z00daxyeah, it should - if you use upgrade instead of update, that does work
11:25.11kjalilz00dax: i actually posted that *after* I had already fixed it by removing the package from the updates list
11:25.18wethrinz00dax: I doubt there'll be a meet in April, then.
11:25.26wethrinHow does May (say 10th May) sound?
11:25.40kjalilz00dax: no, i didn't try anything clever, just tried to act dumb and allowed the Updater to do it, but it wouldn't
11:25.47z00daxwethrin: not sure, will need to check - let me get back to you on that
11:25.51wethrinokay
11:26.48morsingkjalil!
11:36.21ChoHagz00dax: Better than I'd thought but worse than it could have.
11:36.45morsingBeer
11:37.02ChoHagI need to send a followup to the list. Many people were asking the same sorts of questions at the end.
11:40.33kjalilChoHag: hi!
11:40.39ChoHagMorning.
11:40.45ChoHaghas an interview tomorrow :)
11:40.50wethrinhurrah!
11:40.52kjalilChoHag: i thought it was fine, but maybe too much information at one?
11:40.59kjalilChoHag: good luck, I have one as well :)
11:41.06wethrinAt the same place?
11:41.08ChoHagYeah. I tried to say everything.
11:41.11ChoHagThere's too much to do that.
11:41.15kjalilwethrin: i don't think so
11:41.21ChoHagIf I'd been able to plan it I'd have known what not to say.
11:41.35kjalilChoHag: and a faster laptop :)
11:41.40ChoHagYes.
11:41.43ChoHagGot one spare?
11:41.46ChoHagI'm dying to bin that thing.
11:41.57kjalilChoHag: you don't have a decent daily use machine?
11:42.08ChoHagYes, but it doesn't fit in my bag.
11:42.16ChoHagEspecially with the requisite UPS.
11:42.22ChoHagAnd the 21" CRT.
11:42.22wethrinHm. I had a P3/450 laptop with 128MB RAM, and it ran okay
11:42.34ChoHagwethrin: I think firefox was a mistake.
11:42.38kjalilwethrin: firefox was the problem
11:42.39wethrinYes, it normally is.
11:42.45ChoHagActually, Ubuntu was the first mistake.
11:42.58ChoHagI'll wipe it some day soon and put etch back on.
11:42.59wethrinSee, the problem is loading software on.
11:43.11ChoHagI think I only installed ubuntu to get the wireless card I never use working.
11:43.20morsingkjalil: Good luck
11:43.25wethrinheh
11:44.25ChoHagAnyway, let me get myself safely married off and employed, and I'll give a better, more focused talk.
11:44.30ChoHagMaybe on Asterisk, maybe something else.
11:47.57wethrinOkay :)
11:49.05morsingPIE
11:49.26wethrinmmm, pie
11:49.31morsingApple pie!
11:49.34wethrinMeatpie
11:49.42morsingMarmite pie
11:49.46wethrinew
11:49.48morsingCelery pie
11:49.51wethrinew
11:49.57morsingTofu pie
11:50.07wethrinew
11:52.55ChoHagPie pie.
11:55.42*** join/#gllug heed (n=michael@ACBC0218.ipt.aol.com)
12:00.55morsingheed!
12:00.59morsingheedpie
12:01.00morsingheedp ie
12:01.03morsingheed pie
12:11.46*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
12:12.56heed???#
12:13.21heed;)
12:52.47Discordianre
12:53.13bilarh_damn, lehmans brothers aren't doing that well in todays trading
12:53.22bilarh_s/lehmans/lehman/
12:54.52morsingBeer
12:56.24bilarh_jeez louise! ftse100 3.00% down
12:56.30bilarh_this is bad stuff
12:56.54morsinghttp://i30.tinypic.com/99fejr.jpg
12:57.02bilarh_i make this a 2.5 year low on the ftse at present
12:57.10halibear sterns then? :P
12:57.23bilarh_well, they were toast already
12:57.33bilarh_lehman bro's, though
12:57.41bilarh_they've had credit lines withdrawn from some banks already
12:57.43halilehmans is one of our biggest clients in the US
12:57.45bilarh_they're next
12:57.49halithey have pretty much *all* of our products
12:57.53halibut fairly small installs though
12:58.01bilarh_they're fucked
12:58.06halidoubt it
12:58.16halifucked is a strong word
12:58.25halii think they're in a itty bitty bit of trouble
12:58.26bilarh_ok, they're not going to be doing splendidly for a while :)
12:58.38bilarh_morsing: :D
12:59.00morsingMine's got another 11 months left then
13:06.44halihm, weblogic sucks today
13:06.54morsing"Today"?
13:06.55halii can never decide if i hate weblogic more than i hate websphere
13:07.04haliboth are equally annoying to work with
13:07.12antiphaseAll Java is fail
13:07.25haliAll Trolling is fail
13:07.49morsinghali!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:08.11halijboss ftw!
13:08.39haliit's so much easier to work with.. even if it doesn't support all the quirky special features weblogic and websphere have
13:08.54haliand one can actually edit XML files without the whole deployment domain freaking out
13:24.45bilarh_http://uk.finsearch.yahoo.com/uk/index.php?s=uk_sort&nm=lehman+brothers&tp=S&r=*&sub=Look+Up
13:45.10morsinghttp://www.mrtandme.com/images/gallery/large/hamster1.jpg
14:03.35*** join/#gllug heed (n=michael@AC8DA34D.ipt.aol.com)
14:03.39morsingheed!
14:12.35*** join/#gllug Facundo (n=facundo@host.190.15.199.211.static.itcsa.net)
14:12.49morsingFacundo!
14:13.00Facundohi morsing
14:13.02Facundohi all
14:25.00*** join/#gllug heed (n=michael@AC8DA34D.ipt.aol.com)
14:25.47morsingheed!
14:35.44*** join/#gllug Armand (n=mcagame@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
14:35.54morsingArmand!
14:36.01Armandmorsing! ^_^
14:43.26*** join/#gllug heed (n=michael@AC8DA34D.ipt.aol.com)
14:43.30morsingheed!
15:12.46wethrinawk rocks muchly. That is all.
15:13.06morsingBeer
15:13.55ArmandWhere ?
15:14.08morsingwethrin has it! Get 'im!
15:14.21Armandjumps wethrin and nicks all the beer!
15:15.35wethrinOi
15:15.44wethrinIt'll probably all be too sour for you
15:15.59Armandppfff
15:16.08ArmandIs it out of date then?
15:16.15morsingIt's Belgian
15:16.19bilarh_smiles as he pissed in all the glasses earlier
15:16.33wethrinNo
15:16.33wethrinWhat morsing said
15:16.34wethrinSpecifically, it's Cantillon
15:17.07Armand?_?
15:18.16*** join/#gllug secretlondon (n=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
15:18.24morsingsecretlondon!
15:18.58secretlondonmorsing!
15:20.28wethrinCantillon. Wikipedia it.
15:20.48Armandnah, cba.. setting up DynDNS stuff. :P
15:22.13wethrinGet a static IP address
15:23.40ArmandI would need to pay for that, and a registered domain ?
15:24.08wethrinMost ISPs nowadays throw it in as part of their normal package
15:24.29wethrinDomain....depends if you want one, really
15:25.13ArmandWell, I'll see how DynDNS goes.
15:25.42morsingDynDNS sucks
15:26.55antiphaseHosting stuff at home sucks
15:27.05ArmandWell, it's all testing
15:27.07morsingI know
15:27.16morsingprobes Armand
15:27.27Armandshuts his legs!!
15:27.31ArmandO_O
15:28.16wethrinantiphase: Not if you have a real internet connection to the house
15:28.21morsingSDSL
15:28.34morsingReal men use Frame Relay
15:28.38Armand< 2mb/s cable.. shitty outgoing.
15:29.03wethrinReal Men toggle the voltages on the copper cable directly
15:29.09Armand30Kb/s >_<
15:29.17ArmandKB/s ?_?
15:29.20Armandmeh
15:29.22wethrinB = Byte; b = bit
15:29.24Armandshit anyways
15:30.31antiphaseKB.s^(-1)
15:33.35ArmandFair to say.. it's crap.
15:34.02ArmandMy mate asked me to upload a level to our CS:S server.. 20MB, I went out for over an hour.
15:34.21ArmandThen.. he wants me to upload a 150MB level!!
15:34.45Armand"get fucked!" were the exact words. :)
16:12.44Armandhttp://www.skingwarez.homelinux.org/
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16:35.18*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
16:36.30Discordiangood evening
16:36.39secretlondonevening
16:36.41ArmandHi. :)
16:36.53secretlondonevening/late afternoon
16:37.19Discordianwhichever
16:38.10secretlondonas I was up late I'm gonna say its still afternoon
16:38.22DiscordianHeh
16:38.32DiscordianI actually was in bed by midnight
16:38.45Armanddidn't sleep, again..
16:40.41ArmandDiscordian: Did I tell you, I've been trying to setup my own webserver?
16:41.16DiscordianHeh that's easy enough surely?
16:42.11Armandfor a linux n00b, not really. :P
16:42.13wethrinIt's piddlingly easy, unless you need to do fancy things
16:42.33ArmandWell.. considering this is ME we are talking about... hehe
16:42.54ArmandIt runs sweet though, I'm quite surprised.. and pleased. :)
16:42.55Discordianhas been running apache since ye olde days
16:43.14wethrinSince it was still NCSA something-or-other?
16:43.28Discordian1.2 anyway
16:43.42ArmandWell, I've been using Linux proper for less than a year.
16:43.47ArmandI think ?_?
16:44.39DiscordianMy first production linux system was 1996
16:45.01Armandlemme think.. Redhat 6 or 7.
16:45.08Armand7, probably..
16:45.27Armandlate 2000.. not sure.
16:45.41Discordiansomething ancient like RH 3 I think in production
16:45.56Armandweed make for much drain bamage. :P
16:46.02Discordianloads of messing about to enable shadow backl then
16:57.46*** part/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk)
17:00.43ArmandDiscordian: http://www.skingwarez.homelinux.org/
17:02.26DiscordianNot much disk
17:02.57Armandcourse not. :)
17:03.18ArmandI'm just going to use it as a portfolio, for my mod projects.
17:03.38DiscordianSomewhat overpowered for a small web server
17:03.52ArmandI know.. my first machine was made of fail.
17:04.03Armandthat is the back-up machine.
17:04.54DiscordianI really must put some RAM and disk in the harebones box sitting next to my disk
17:05.10ArmandThat would be useful!! ^_^
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17:05.46Discordianuntil I get a job I don't want the extra leccy
17:05.50ArmandI need to build a box for that machine now..
17:05.59Armandneeds job also. :(
17:07.09DiscordianI ought to get my x86/64 box up and running again
17:08.30DiscordianMust did it out for when F9 ships
17:08.42Discordians/did/dig/
17:10.26morsingBeer
17:13.06ArmandF9 is alpha atm..
17:16.24DiscordianYeah I'll install the beta
17:16.52ArmandI'll probably wait for beta myself.
17:17.10morsingSossidge
17:17.19Discordiandue this week anyway
17:41.18cpufreakFedora9 is using upstart isn't it?
17:41.35DiscordianSo I believe yes
17:42.00cpufreakbe interesting how well they've integrated it
17:42.10cpufreakwe've been running it for ~2 years on Ubuntu so far.
17:42.19DiscordianBit of a sea change
17:42.46cpufreakits good
17:42.52cpufreakalso good that Fedora is adopting it
17:42.58cpufreakpresume that means its likely to be in RHEL6
17:43.12cpufreakwhich is good for the future + development of it
17:44.12DiscordianI shall be interested to see if it's done okl
17:44.41cpufreakjust switcht o umbungo
17:44.46cpufreakall the cool kids
17:44.47cpufreakare
17:44.59Discordianno thanks
17:52.03*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
18:19.30DiscordianHmm that article on OSNews seems wrong to me, BFS was the FS that SVR4 used for /stand
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19:42.19haliBFS to me is the old BeOS file system
19:42.40Discordianwhich is what was referenced
19:43.04DiscordianBut bfs to me was the old 14 character SVr4 file system
19:44.20halii can see SCO had BFS support and i doubt they'd implement the beos one
19:44.38halis/had/has(?)/
19:45.34Discordianunixware was a SVr4 system
19:46.29haliah, found an old reference to tux2 :)
19:46.46haliext2 with some wonky btree (i think) support
19:47.38DiscordianThere's been  a few linux fses that fell by the wayside
19:48.02haliindeed
19:48.08halii read about a new fs the other day
19:48.16haliwritten by India Telecom
19:48.37haliand there is brtfs from ORacle
19:48.39halilooks cool
19:48.55Discordianand ocfs2
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