IRC log for #gllug on 20080312

00:06.53*** join/#gllug catalyst` (i=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
00:39.38*** join/#gllug Provito (n=Provito@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Provito)
00:56.28*** join/#gllug andy_ (n=cpu@nurburgr.ing.me.uk)
01:11.25*** join/#gllug sam__ (n=sam@client-86-27-90-161.winn.adsl.virgin.net)
05:57.49morsing'morning
07:14.11z00daxwoo
07:30.03morsingz00dax!
08:25.10morsingz00dax?
08:31.07z00daxmorsing: check it!
08:31.43morsingBeer
08:47.24bilarhmorsing: $_ eq /cerprod$/  doesn't work
08:47.37bilarh$_ =~ /cerprod$/ will
08:48.35bilarheq tests for equality, not a regexp
08:55.09morsingbilarh: Didn't I remove $_ eq?
08:55.11morsingI meant to
08:55.20morsingLike ablack suggested
08:55.54morsingSorry, I see it. Removed
08:56.23bilarhyou should run it on a test set first as well to make sure it does what you want it to
08:56.23*** join/#gllug etorix (n=etorix@unaffiliated/etorix)
08:56.31morsingetorix!
08:56.34morsingbilarh: Sure
09:55.51*** join/#gllug ElPenguin (n=ElPengui@foresight/developer/elpenguin)
09:57.52morsingElPenguin!
09:58.59z00daxI hate perl
09:59.15z00daxit attacked me once when I was a little boy, I've not liked it since
10:00.03*** join/#gllug tink044 (i=c1cb52e2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-742cd2c07254aa9e)
10:01.08morsingtink044!
10:03.44ElPenguinhi morsing
10:09.52tink044G'day g'day!
10:13.14*** join/#gllug blight (n=blight@83.244.128.126)
10:16.26morsingblight!
10:28.56blightmorning all
10:29.10blightdamn I want to do terrible things to our oracle dba
10:29.18morsingMe too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:29.39blightis it just me or are the all over paid and highly useless?
10:30.08blightI'm sure there are exceptions to that rule but I've yet to meet em
10:30.14morsingThey are!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:30.23halimost are yes
10:30.23morsingAnd annoying as well!
10:30.30halithe best dba's are just sysadmins with some oracle skills
10:30.35haliat least in 90% of all cases
10:43.09*** join/#gllug Facundo (n=facundo@host.190.15.199.211.static.itcsa.net)
10:44.11morsingFacundo!
10:46.31Facundomorsing!
10:48.16bilarhi'm the worst dba ever :-)
10:49.30bilarhi can usually get things working, but it takes hours of googling and swearing
11:03.19blightbilarh: know what you mean - basically what I'm doing now - I've had it with this chap
11:03.44blightApplied patches to our PROD systems without applying them to STAGing systems and making us look bad big time
11:12.10*** join/#gllug eyore (n=eeyore@84.45.14.60)
11:13.06morsingeyore!
11:13.31eyorelo
11:41.04*** join/#gllug secretlondon (n=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
11:42.01secretlondonhi
11:42.07morsingsecretlondon!
11:42.19secretlondonmorsing!
12:06.53*** join/#gllug zmey_g (n=egor@87.127.26.43)
12:13.30*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
12:18.35*** join/#gllug secretlondo (n=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
12:48.16blightnote to self, meat pancakes from Selfridges is crap
12:49.46secretlondonthanks
13:06.59halihm, pancakes with meat sounds like a generally bad idea
13:07.21antiphaseBacon and ham is good on pancakes, especially with cheese
13:08.08ChoHagBacon is good on anything.
13:11.51zmey_gWho is going to meeting tonight?
13:12.30morsingzmey_g!
13:12.38zmey_gmorsing: !!!iii
13:13.30blighthali: yeah - well I was reminded of a similar-ish South African pasty thought is might be good - but ack!
13:14.28*** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-36-35.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
13:17.36morsingboudiccas!
13:17.49boudiccasyes?
13:18.47zmey_gso, nobody up for the meeting tonight?
13:19.52morsingNo
13:20.14zmey_gcool
13:22.26blightzmey_g: not going to make it - sorry
13:23.23morsingMaybe mozzie is going?
13:23.24zmey_gblight: just my beer blood level is critically  low. %(
13:23.26*** join/#gllug secretlondo (n=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
13:23.43morsingsecretlondo!
13:23.53secretlondomorsin
13:25.18morsingsecretlondon!
13:27.27blightzmey_g: ah - beer is out for me - riding motorbike and beer don't mix :-)
13:29.13bilarhboredom strikes
13:31.32haliargh, worst lunch in ages, chicken curry from a greek sandwich shop
13:31.39haliwith rice not even boiled long enough
13:31.43bilarhgreek chicken curry
13:31.58bilarhi raise you an indian korma with rice that had boiled about 3 hours too long :)
13:32.30zmey_gblight: what about riding a train?
13:33.30bilarhzmey_g: if you drink too much it makes you miss low bridges and tunnels, with possibly injuries as a result
13:33.48zmey_g:)
13:37.09morsingThat's more stupid than a "Chinese curry"!
13:39.23halithank god i bought a bounty choc bar :)
13:39.43secretlondoni'm having tortollini (sp?) with "a unique blend of Italian and English cheeses"
13:41.39*** join/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@w1199.insrv.cf.ac.uk)
13:44.12morsinghuw-l!
14:02.16blightzmey_g: yeah - I would had I planned for it :-)
14:03.09eyoreanyone who knows about iptables, help!
14:03.25antiphaseWhat's up?
14:03.28eyoreiptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 443 -j REDIRECT --to-port 8443
14:03.38antiphaseBleurgh
14:03.41eyoreI was sure that rule used to redirect 443 traffic to 8443
14:03.47eyoreand now it's not!
14:03.58antiphaseREDIRECT isn't a NAT chain iirc
14:04.12antiphaseIf it is, you probably don't want it
14:05.03antiphaseDepends where the web server is
14:05.12eyoreit's all on the same box
14:05.43eyorei think some sysadmin splatted my original iptables config, not just on memory but on disk too
14:05.53antiphaseI'd have thought an HTTP redirect would be more appropriate
14:06.04antiphaseDoing this stuff at the network level is ugly and bad
14:06.22eyoreI investigated getting port 443 open instead
14:06.26eyorebasically it isn't worth it
14:06.35antiphaseIf you must though, put it in the INPUT chain
14:06.36eyorerequires hacking with too much pre-packaged stuff
14:07.06antiphaseREDIRECT issues ICMP as well iirc, so it's fairly terrible to use it for mangling application-level stuff
14:07.41antiphaseYou could just use DNAT in the POSTROUTING chain and SNAT on the way back to make it transparent
14:07.53antiphaseIt's still yucky if it's all on the same machine
14:09.35eyoreI don't know the guts of iptables, i've just used a little for firewalling previously and of course this one redirect hack
14:10.04eyorebut doesn't it need to be in prerouting, I thought otherwise the traffic would be rejected.
14:13.11eyoreI'm beginning to wonder if this is related to a kernel change
14:18.01antiphaseI've done similar horrors temporarily before and I always use SNAT and DNAT in the nat table, the solution is of course to fix your broken application though
14:22.11eyorePersonally I'd throw out the whole security model that requires apps to escalate to root just to bind to a low numbered port.
14:22.36antiphaseo.O
14:23.39antiphaseI don't think it was originally done just to piss people off
14:24.56eyoreThat is not a good way to do security. You shouldn't need to escalate a whole process to FULL administrator privileges just to bind a port, it's giving far too much access.
14:25.30eyoreAnyways
14:26.03eyoreturns out IP_NF_NAT_LOCAL was disabled in more recent kernels
14:26.20*** join/#gllug secretlondo (n=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
14:26.37morsingsecretlondo!
14:26.52boudiccaswhen i rebooted my centos 5.1 box to get the goodness of a new kernel i got 'hdf lost interrupt' showing repeatedly till i switched off the power. is this a hard drive error or a motherboard error please?
14:27.15secretlondomorsin
14:27.32bilarhsounds more like a broken driver
14:27.40morsingsecretlondon!
14:28.23eyoreeek, sounds worse than my "rebooted my centos 5.1 box to get the goodness of a new kernel and discovered that they'd killed local NAT redirection" problem.
14:29.15antiphasePEBKACs all round
14:35.17morsingI just found some more abou tthat script I found and it's even worse
14:35.59morsingLater in the script it runs the same find command again with THE SAME regexp on files only in the same directory!
14:41.10*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
14:50.29*** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-36-35.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
14:53.40morsingboudiccas!
14:57.30ChoHagInteresting.
14:57.37ChoHagEmployer called to say they'll call me back.
14:57.52ChoHagPotential employer.
14:57.55secretlondoncool
14:58.05wethrinyay
14:58.35ChoHagYay indeed, but odd.
14:59.10zmey_gChoHag: why odd?
14:59.25ChoHagWhy call to say they'll call.
15:00.10zmey_gbecause they are not in position to decide yet.
15:00.54zmey_gthere is another candidate or something else
15:03.10ChoHagOh no, this is just the 'we got your CV' call.
15:03.21secretlondonto see if you exist
15:03.27secretlondona triaging thing
15:04.08ChoHagI suppose that makes sense.
15:04.50zmey_gok. i had a similar story. so he rang me back and said he will call me in a month. :)
15:05.06ChoHagA month?
15:05.10zmey_gyes
15:05.15ChoHagUseful.
15:06.12zmey_gmonth is too late. i had 3 interview and 3 job offers. so, there will be no month for me.
15:10.09*** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-36-35.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
15:10.27*** join/#gllug etorix (n=etorix@unaffiliated/etorix)
15:17.14morsingetorix!
15:28.00bilarhok... so we have archive tapes used for ... data archiving.
15:28.06bilarhfor data we need to keep indefinitely
15:28.08morsingWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
15:28.32wethrinhar
15:28.39ChoHagGood luck.
15:28.42wethrinClay tablets. That's the way to do long-term storage
15:28.42bilarhcan i find the tapes? no, because some idiot threw them out
15:29.09morsingwethrin!
15:29.35bilarhwhy the fuck are people so stupid?!
15:29.43wethrinIt's in their nature
15:31.00secretlondoncouncil paper archive - in unmarked bankers boxes, hidden in basements, no records kept of what and where
15:31.09secretlondonoutstanding stuff
15:31.25Discordianlol
15:31.29bilarhturns out that when they changed from dlt to lto2, they thought it might be a good idea to send all the tapes off to a different site to be used in backups
15:31.48antiphaseMake sure someone gets sacked
15:31.54bilarhah, well
15:32.00bilarhtherein lies the problem...
15:32.03bilarhhe's already been sacked :P
15:32.15Discordianhaha
15:44.43eyoreantiphase: I haven't solved my problem yet, although i have come across an article showing that solaris supports binding to privileged ports without switching to root in what looks like a much more sane model.
15:45.39*** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-36-35.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
15:45.42morsingboudiccas!
15:46.49Discordianthe ability to use ports < 1024 is a capability in Linux
15:47.10antiphaseI can't see a problem with it, especially when you drop privileges afterwards
15:47.16*** join/#gllug Armand (n=mcagame@82.44.158.100)
15:47.55DiscordianOpen the port, switch to a chroot environment, drop
15:47.55antiphaseIt's nice to think that someone had to be root to start the web server I'm exchanging my data with
15:49.02morsingArmand!
15:49.15Armandmorsing! ^_^
15:49.43wethrinThis is why you're on IRC?
15:49.50Armandlol
15:49.58ArmandNah, I'm on Scan.co.uk
15:50.04antiphasescam
15:50.08Armandlol
15:50.21wethrinYes, but all online computer shops suck in some way
15:50.25ArmandPrices seem ok.. besides, I'm using it as price comparison
15:50.32ChoHagwethrin: s/computer//
15:50.38wethrinTrue :)
15:50.41eyoreantiphase: I disagree, I would like to know that the webserver had minimal permissions requires to do it's not job, granting it root, even temporarily allows it to do all kinds of things that a webserver should NEVER be able to do.
15:50.43ArmandMate has given me £160 to upgrade his PC
15:50.50wethrinI've not heard many (any?) bad things about Amazon
15:50.51antiphaseebuyer have always been good to me, I gather others have had worse experiences though
15:51.07wethrinLikewise
15:51.12wethrinI've not had a problem with Dabs
15:51.14eyoreantiphase: I disagree, I would like to know that the webserver had the minimal permissions required to do it's job, granting it root, even temporarily allows it to do all kinds of things that a webserver should NEVER be able to do.
15:51.14antiphaseeyore: STFU already :)   It's been the same since before you and I were born
15:51.18ChoHagantiphase: Other way around.
15:51.21wethrinOnly time I had to return something, I sent the drive back to Seagate
15:51.29ChoHagebuyer have rarely if ever been good to me.
15:52.19ArmandI've only bought stuff from one online shop.. and now I can't remember the fricking name. >_<
15:52.27secretlondonebuyer won't take my money as they claim my address doesn't exist
15:52.33wethrinFail.
15:52.35ArmandO_o
15:52.51Armandhehehehe
15:53.01Armande-mail spam always makes me laugh.
15:53.10Armand<PROTECTED>
15:53.18Armand<PROTECTED>
15:53.19Armandlol
15:53.24eyoreantiphase: yes I know that's how it's all been done, but it's both a pain to do for a lot of apps, and it's not very secure. So I feel i have a right to complain :)
15:53.37secretlondonI had one about wanting to give people sexually transmitted diseases today
15:53.47ArmandO_O
15:54.03ArmandThat's a bit extreme..
15:54.56DiscordianIt's a crime
15:55.07ArmandErm, apparently so. :P
15:56.50secretlondonit was just the title, the body was 1 sentence about penis enlargement
15:57.12DiscordianOh dear
15:58.01bilarhmy wife keeps complaining about my size to these random people as well... and then they ahve the audacity to send an email to let me know as well!
15:58.35antiphaseTell your wife she has a tardis twat
15:59.25secretlondonno-one ever sends me spam about enlarging/reducing my vagina
15:59.37bilarhantiphase: lol :D
16:01.43Discordianwhat can I say
16:02.08bilarhsecretlondon: so tell us about your vagina
16:02.20Armandlol
16:02.38secretlondonwell you can get breast enlargement pills on ebay, but I've never had female bodypart spam
16:03.12DiscordianHow do they work?
16:03.23secretlondonthey don't, obviously
16:03.34bilarhis it possible to get breast reduction pills? i could really do with some :-\
16:03.46wethrinbilarh: No. Do some exercise, you lazy bastard.
16:03.53DiscordianI think not
16:04.28bilarhwethrin: sounds like too much work
16:05.07secretlondonCan I have some pre-munched ones?
16:05.29bilarhhmm
16:05.40Discordianmmm I have some fruit yoghurt ones
16:05.40bilarhi can get you some dough if you want?
16:06.22bilarhi've got some beef cake too
16:06.56bilarhanyone up for some?
16:06.56Armando_ô
16:07.03secretlondon"beef cake"
16:07.08wethrinBEEFCAKE!
16:07.20Discordianuggh beef
16:07.27wethrinmmm.....steak
16:07.35secretlondonyum @steak
16:08.31bilarhmeat good
16:09.16DiscordianI eat meat
16:09.36DiscordianHad a lovely chicken tikka form lunch
16:09.44Discordians/form/for/
16:09.44bilarhwethrin: and why don't you just shut up and MAKE ME SOME PIE
16:10.33bilarhhow people can not like meat is beyond me
16:10.56bilarhthey should try some nice argentinian beef
16:11.00antiphaseMeat is good for you
16:11.03bilarhand not have it well done
16:11.39wethrinbilarh: I didn't have PIE for lunch
16:11.39DiscordianIf eat cow it needs to be very well done
16:11.40wethrinI had stir-fry chilli beef. Which was TASTY.
16:11.41bilarhmy mum insists on cremating her meat when she cooks...
16:12.11antiphaseYou have to cremate shit-quality meat
16:12.21wethrinBarbecue steak!
16:12.25antiphaseNice stuff is better with a bit of blood pumping out of it
16:12.32Armand¬_¬
16:12.35wethrinIt's not blood. Just meat juices.
16:12.42Armandblood = I don't eat it..
16:12.44DiscordianI like tagines
16:12.44wethrinBlood would congeal when cookign
16:12.51wethrincf black pudding
16:13.13Discordianyeuw black pud
16:14.03bilarhyumm black pud
16:14.17bilarhwith lingonberry jam
16:14.25wethrinInteresting....
16:14.33Discordiannever had it and then very notion repulses me
16:14.44wethrinIt sounds wrong......so maybe they'd work together
16:14.46secretlondonI couldn't eat black pudding
16:14.47Discordians/then/the/
16:14.52wethrinYou just need to not think of what's in it. Like haggis.
16:15.03antiphaseGreasy dead bits
16:15.03secretlondoneew haggis
16:15.08wethrinMmm...haggis
16:15.17wethrinClearly you've never had a good haggis :)
16:15.20antiphaseMinced bollocks and hooves
16:15.31DiscordianI wouldn't eat haggis either
16:15.40wethrinantiphase: Only in the cheap stuff
16:15.58bilarhwhat's wrong with black pudding?
16:15.58wethrinNothing wrong with hooves, anyway. They go in to making jelly
16:16.16DiscordianThe blood
16:16.21bilarhi mean it's just blood
16:16.34bilarhit's full of iron and healthy things
16:18.51bilarhthe only thing i wouldn't have willfully tried that i've eaten if i knew what it was is sweetbread
16:18.56bilarhas it turns out, it was disgusting as well
16:20.11wethrinBRANES!
16:22.23secretlondoneeew
16:22.48DiscordianOffal
16:23.38morsingBeer
16:23.47wethrinmmm....lungs
16:24.15Discordianlungs, hearts, liver etc
16:24.46Discordianwhat the trade called 'plucks'
16:24.48bilarhok, i wouldn't eat lungs or a brain either
16:25.01wethrinLiver I'm less objecting to that I used to. Mostly because one place that includes it in their mixed grill has quite tasty liver
16:25.09wethrinbilarh: Not even lungs in haggis?
16:25.12bilarhand liver and kidneys are absolutely disgusting
16:25.26bilarhi've never had haggis to be honest... i would defintiely not have it on its own
16:25.32morsingbilarh: Why not?
16:25.47Discordiani eat liver
16:25.48morsingbilarh: I thought you were swedish?
16:25.55morsingYou shouldn't be this delicate
16:26.21bilarhbecause i don't like the idea (this is where my viewpoint on not eating meat is beginning to look a bit two-faced)
16:26.52morsingbilarh: I thought you were swedish?
16:26.54morsingYou shouldn't be this delicate
16:26.54bilarhi'm a sensitive kind of guy
16:26.59morsingClearly
16:27.36bilarhand kidneys and liver *bleurgh*
16:27.42morsingHmm...
16:27.47bilarhthat's where all the crap ends up
16:27.57bilarhand the kidneys must have traces of urine in them as well, when you eat them
16:28.03Discordianbraised chicken liver, caramalised onion mash
16:28.04wethrinIt's sterile.
16:28.07Discordianyuk
16:28.13secretlondonlocal market has a place selling stomachs *blurrgh*
16:28.20Armando_ô
16:28.25Discordianyum even
16:28.26secretlondonon the street
16:28.31wethrinGood for making your own haggis in :)
16:28.32morsingGrow up...
16:29.02antiphaseKidneys are supposed to taste of piss
16:29.06secretlondonwho's coming to the meeting tonight?
16:29.09DiscordianI wouldn't eat stomachs
16:29.10morsingbilarh: There's nothing wrong with urine and anything in there will be in the blood in your steak anyway
16:29.17morsingsecretlondon: No-one
16:29.21secretlondonmorsing: drink yer own?
16:29.24bilarhmorsing: there is somethign wrong with eating piss
16:29.29morsingsecretlondon: Unless you can get me one of those stomachs?
16:29.29secretlondonmorsing: well *I* am
16:29.45antiphaseOther people's piss isn't so good, your own is quite safe though
16:29.48bilarhmorsing: and it's not in the same concentration in the blood as in an organ designed to concentrate it out of the blood
16:29.48morsingbilarh: But it's not any worse than eating blood
16:30.12DiscordianI'm going to the one on Sat
16:30.12morsingbilarh: It's the idea though, you have a problem with
16:30.25bilarhmorsing: and the piss :)
16:30.37bilarhmorsing: and the fact that it's like having a sponge in your mouth
16:30.38morsingRight...
16:30.49bilarhnay, not sponge, something that offers no texture what so ever
16:30.52bilarhyou might as well eat tofu
16:30.52morsingWhat's wrong with the sponge now ;)
16:30.57bilarhwith piss flavour
16:30.59morsingYUCKQQ TOFU
16:31.11morsingTofu is wrong on so many levels
16:31.14bilarhthat's exactly my point
16:31.20bilarhergo kidneys and liver are wrong
16:32.35secretlondonI like tofu actually, tho I'm not a veggie
16:32.54antiphaseTofu is foul
16:32.56bilarhit's ok in some dishes
16:33.01bilarhe.g. in miso soup
16:33.05bilarhthat is tofu, isn't it?
16:33.21antiphaseIt's slippery and disgusting to chew
16:33.22Discordianquorn made ill
16:33.33Discordianmade me
16:33.46secretlondontofu is better if frozen first actually, less slippery
16:33.54antiphaseMiso soup itself is like drinking stagnant sea water anyway
16:35.07wethrinI kinda like it
16:37.04morsingTofu is pointless!
16:37.39kjalilmorsing: it is not that bad
16:37.46wethrinTaste before judging.
16:37.48kjalilmorsing: i've had it several times
16:38.34morsingwethrin: I'm not complaining about the taste but the fact it's stupid and pointless
16:38.49morsingI wouldn't eat celery either for the same reason
16:39.01wethrinmorsing: It's not pointless. Miso soup wouldn't exist without it
16:39.08morsingwethrin: Tofu!
16:39.15morsingMiso soup is fine
16:39.16wethrinHORSERADISH
16:39.20bilarhmorsing: celery is the shit dude!
16:39.29wethrins/the//
16:39.33morsingbilarh: obviously
16:41.17secretlondoncelery is like tasteless stalk
16:41.27wethrinCelery has taste
16:41.30wethrinIt tastes fucking awful
16:43.51kjalilyes, and broccoli  is very good for you, but for no-one else :)
16:44.58Discordiani loathe brocolli
16:45.18Discordianthough I like cauli
16:46.12bilarhbroccoli is nice too
16:46.23bilarhsecretlondon: celery tastes really zingy if it's fresh
17:14.36secretlondonwho put the wrong street name on the web site? it's new cavendish street, someone wrote cavendish street
17:14.59secretlondonidiots
17:15.14wethrinWeren't me, guv
17:16.01wethrinThere. Fixed.
17:16.09wethrinNow no-one need know it were broken
17:16.16wethrinI just copied/pasted from the announcement
17:16.47secretlondonso the press release had the wrong street too
17:16.48secretlondonffs
17:17.06wethrinComplain to John Levin
17:17.52secretlondonamateurish as fuck
17:21.08wethrinHey, at least he made an effort to organise a meeting. Which is more than pretty much anyone else in Gllug has done
17:22.18secretlondonagreed - sorry
17:22.28wethrins'ok
17:22.43secretlondonI'm just redoing the announcements I sent out
17:24.12secretlondonI think it's been taken from previous announcements anyway
17:26.55wethrinAh. Yes. I blame z00dax, then :)
17:27.38wethrinnodnod. I really should put Saturday's meeting up there
17:27.49wethrinI'll do it before I leave work, so within the next hour
17:28.16z00daxerr... me ?
17:28.25secretlondonyou dunno. depends where they work
17:28.31z00daxif its an address I put in, it came from an address from the univ website
17:28.49wethrinNot to worry. The map is correct :-)
17:28.59secretlondonwell someone has been using Cavendish st, not New Cavendish st
17:29.24z00daxhowever, I will be there today and I know where to go
17:29.35z00daxbesides, Cavendish st in hackney is quite cool too
17:29.35secretlondonWell I was promoting it
17:29.36wethrinz00dax: Did you want to go first, second, or third on Saturday?
17:29.39wethrinChoHag: same question
17:29.46z00daxwethrin: what time is first ?
17:29.48wethrin2pm
17:29.54z00daxright, I'll go at 2
17:29.58wethrinOkay
17:30.29z00daxi have a 10 min talk, 15 min demo, then 5 min talk, then end
17:30.34ChoHagI still need to write the damn thing.
17:30.38ChoHagI've only got a vague plan.
17:30.58ChoHagAnd I'm not good enough at waffle to turn that into a talk on the spot.
17:31.19wethrinYou've got a few days :)
17:31.42morsingMmm... Wafflesw
17:31.59ChoHagYeah I'll work on it tomorrow.
17:32.16ChoHagI really shouldn't have volunteered. There is far too much going on right now.
17:32.21ChoHagBut I'll have a go.
17:33.57wethrinIt'll be fine, I'm sure
17:40.37ChoHagWhen're you giving a talk?
17:42.40morsinghttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pontiac-Trans-Am_W0QQitemZ110227267426QQihZ001QQcategoryZ100952QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
17:43.27wethrinChoHag: Who, me?
17:43.33ChoHagDa.
17:43.47antiphaseNot the prettiest cars ever made, they probably sound nice though
17:43.48wethrinI gave one years ago
17:44.01ChoHagOn what?
17:44.10wethrinOpenBSD/pf
17:44.22ChoHagAh that could have been interesting.
17:44.44wethrinhttp://eco.li/writings-talks/other/pf_gllug_200305.pdf
17:48.05morsingBeer
17:48.12morsingwethrin: Do one on beer!
17:48.58wethrinmorsing: Steev would be better on that
17:49.27*** join/#gllug catalyst (i=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
17:49.40morsingcatalyst!
17:49.44morsingwethrin: 'k
17:49.53catalyst=)
17:50.06ChoHagI (c|sh)ould probably replace my router with BSD if I weren't too lazy to work out how.
17:50.36wethrinInstall it. HTH.
17:50.51morsingChoHag: Put CD in and reboot
17:50.52wethrinpf is *so* much nicer than iptables
17:50.55antiphaseWorking out how requires that you work out why you want something crap instead of Linux
17:51.03ChoHagOh it does have a CD drive.
17:51.15ChoHagantiphase: Why not learn new things?
17:51.34morsingChoHag: antiphase is unable to
17:51.44ChoHagI see.
17:51.44antiphaseReplacing something that works with something you don't understand probably isn't the first port of call I'd consider when trying to learn something :)
17:51.57ChoHagIt's how I learned everything I know...
17:52.03antiphaseSame here
17:52.10wethrinantiphase: Because pf > iptables
17:52.15antiphaseI tend only to learn things I need to know though
17:52.27ChoHagwethrin: I hear that a lot.
17:52.52ChoHagBut as I don't even really know iptables I have nothing to compare.
17:52.57antiphaseAll the BSD weenies say it's "better"
17:53.03antiphaseThere's nothing you can't do with iptables though
17:53.11antiphaseThey're just different
17:53.13wethrinThat may be true
17:53.14morsingantiphase: All the Linux weenies says Linux is better
17:53.15secretlondonand all the linux weenies say it isn't (presumably)
17:53.29secretlondonweenies are not a good source of info
17:53.37wethrinBut the syntax for using it makes it look like some monkeys danced on the keyboard
17:53.45morsingsecretlondon: Hence no-one should ask questions here ;)
17:54.18antiphaseThe syntax is fine when you understand it. I found the logic of the BSD stuff utterly baffling, so I chose to further ignore it :)
17:54.34wethrinHeh. I started with ipf, and moved to pf from there
17:54.41wethrinSo it's all really what you're used to
17:54.54antiphaseI expect so
17:55.05ChoHagWill I be cast out if I say I use a front-end which generates the iptables itself (excruciatingly slowly)?
17:55.18wethrinHow do you know it's doing the right thing?
17:55.19morsingChoHag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
17:55.37ChoHagI can read the rules to some extent.
17:55.51ChoHagBut to all intents and purposes, I have to take it on faith.
17:56.13antiphaseWrite them yourself, then you will implicitly have to understand them
17:56.18z00daxok, off to meeting
17:56.19z00daxerr
17:56.20z00daxtalk
17:56.26ChoHagWhich I'm not very good at, frankly, despite going to church.
17:59.00ChoHagI need to learn something though because shorewall doesn't do ipv6 and apparently there's no intention to.
17:59.30secretlondon(and mines a pint later)
17:59.34ChoHagChow.
17:59.37Armandlaters!
17:59.38antiphaseip6tables is simpler because you don't use NAT with IPv6
17:59.39Armanddoh!
17:59.59ChoHagShouldn't.
18:00.02ChoHagI'm sure some fool will.
18:00.28antiphaseThey'll get what they deserve then. Sane people don't because they realise how retarded to do so would be :)
18:00.49ChoHagwethrin: How sane is pf's bandwidth control.
18:00.53antiphasesince you can get a /48 as a domestic user quite happily
18:00.56wethrinChoHag: Quite sane
18:01.01ChoHagtc is proving to be an irritation.
18:01.35catalystmy friend does IPv6 NAT I beliebe
18:01.37catalystbelieve*
18:01.40wethrinNAT is an ugly hack anyway
18:01.49catalystthough I can't remember why he seemed to have a reasonable reason for it
18:01.52ChoHagI have a /64 from my ISP.
18:02.10ChoHagI don't know why they handed out 64s and not 48s.
18:02.19*** join/#gllug Cope (n=stephen@87-194-125-249.bethere.co.uk)
18:02.22antiphaseA /64 is enough for a single network segment, so you want a /48 anyway
18:02.23wethrinhey Cope
18:02.24morsingCope!
18:02.39antiphaseI got a /48 from SixXS without any problem to use with one of their tunnels
18:03.04wethrinah, tunnels
18:03.20wethrinI could do with a new IPv6 tunnel now that uk6x has stopped providing their broker service
18:03.23ChoHagI had a tunnel. Then BT decided they didn't want to do ipv6 any more.
18:03.37antiphaseI think I'm connected from Leiden, NL via Nuremburg to London via IPv6 :)
18:03.46*** join/#gllug Armand_WS (n=Armand@82-44-158-100.cable.ubr02.haye.blueyonder.co.uk)
18:03.48wethrinHeh
18:03.57morsingArmand_WS!
18:04.30Armand_WSmorsing: That on auto?? :P
18:10.53*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
18:12.17morsingcatalyst!
18:51.57*** join/#gllug blight (n=blight@droid.gotadsl.co.uk)
19:03.25z00daxrar
19:03.32z00daxwe have a speaker!!
19:03.51z00daxwethrin: why are you not here ?
19:06.56z00daxok, we have lift off
19:07.00z00daxbbl
19:12.12*** join/#gllug cpufreak (n=cpu@nurburgr.ing.me.uk)
19:12.17cpufreakanyone on Demon ADSL?
19:22.52*** join/#gllug zmey_g (n=egor@87.127.26.43)
19:28.35morsingzmey_g!
19:28.48zmey_gmorsing: i
19:29.13morsingYou?
19:29.21zmey_gno
20:27.30morsingzmey_g: Where's Sally?
20:28.35*** join/#gllug gregj (n=gj@fcu5.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
20:28.45zmey_gmorsing: who is Sally?
20:28.59morsinggregj!
20:29.04morsingwethrin: Tell'im
20:32.21zmey_gmorsing: who's Sally?
20:33.39morsingwethrin: Tell'im
20:34.47zmey_gwethrin: tell me . i can't sleep now.
20:36.57cpufreakis it like rackmonkey?
20:37.31cpufreakhttp://flux.org.uk/projects/rackmonkey/
20:37.35cpufreak(written by a friend)
20:42.09halii need two things, 1) rack space management 2) ipv4 space management
20:42.19halithe rest is just sugar on top :-)
20:42.45haliracktables can do pretty much everything i want but that project really *really* needs someone with a clue about webdesign and css
20:43.03haliit's designed by a hardcore techie
20:46.29gregjmorsing: !
20:46.57cpufreakthere's doing what you want
20:47.00cpufreakand doing what you want well
20:47.09morsingBeer
20:47.11cpufreaka case in point... Zenoss does a billion things
20:47.15cpufreak-monitoring
20:47.25cpufreak- syslog shit
20:47.28cpufreak- inventory management
20:47.32cpufreakand it does all of them badly
20:47.41cpufreakOpsview does monitoring well
20:49.04haliopsview looks ok, but "bloated"
20:49.12haliwe use nagios for monitoring which works fine
20:49.16morsingWooooooooooooooo
20:50.16haliracktables integrate quite nice with our lan infrastrcture as we only have four switches for everything
20:50.35haliit can pool arp tables via snmp
20:50.36cpufreakOpsview is Nagios
20:50.43cpufreakit just has a decent interface for management
20:50.47halinagios with sugar on top
20:50.53cpufreakexactly
20:50.58halinagios 3.0 has a nicer gui
20:51.02halisort of anyway
20:51.10cpufreaknagios 3 is going to be interesting
20:51.11halii can't understand why the nagios guy has against using sql
20:51.33cpufreakas its designed to seperate the UI from the other stuff, to make intgration with things like Opsview, nicer
20:51.49halinagios 3 is doing all the sql from the eventhandlers
20:51.55halifrom what i understood
20:52.11cpufreak(not unsuprising seeing as Opsview and other similar companies have people working full time on nagios development)
20:52.17cpufreaks/Opsview/Altinity (who write opsview)
20:52.24cpufreakwith a trailing slash
21:12.10*** join/#gllug heed (n=michael@bb-87-80-52-79.ukonline.co.uk)
21:15.10morsingheed!
21:15.35heedmorsing!
21:22.15*** join/#gllug aguai (n=aguai@host86-141-63-177.range86-141.btcentralplus.com)
21:30.49morsingaguai!
21:32.14aguaimorsing!
22:19.37*** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild)
22:20.03morsingcatalyst!
22:39.04*** join/#gllug Discordian (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk)
22:40.03DiscordianGood evening
23:15.36z00daxhttp://whttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002CYTL2/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_topww.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002CYTL2/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
23:16.38DiscordianThat might work if it was a well formed URL
23:16.48z00daxerr
23:16.50z00daxyes
23:17.17z00daxhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002CYTL2/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
23:17.42z00daxhowse that
23:17.56Discordianworks
23:18.02DiscordianJust what you need
23:18.02wethrinhello
23:18.12wethrinHow did it go?
23:18.20DiscordianA security shakedown for your toys
23:23.41Discordiannext up: a voucher for extraordinary rendition for ken and barbie
23:25.09z00daxwethrin: quite good, there is video
23:25.27z00daxwhich should get posted sometime soon, i guess john will get sometime to do something with it over the weekend
23:25.32DiscordianOh was it your talk?
23:31.31wethrinNo. I had nothing to do with today's meeting
23:32.28z00daxme neither
23:32.34z00daxok, sleep time
23:33.35wethrinnn
23:33.43wethrinSee you Saturday
23:42.40*** join/#gllug secretlondon (n=secretlo@wikipedia/secretlondon)
23:42.58Discordianwwb
23:45.05secretlondonhi
23:55.46*** join/#gllug cpufreak (n=cpu@nurburgr.ing.me.uk)

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