| 00:29.55 | boudiccas | !seen serris |
| 00:30.35 | boudiccas | ~seen serris |
| 00:30.37 | ibot | serris <n=a@87-194-78-122.bethere.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 54d 11h 5m 48s ago, saying: 'But thanks anyway : )'. |
| 00:48.05 | z00dax | boudiccas: goto sleep :) |
| 04:35.17 | *** join/#gllug chris- (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com) |
| 08:01.26 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 08:12.37 | hali | sleep: label not found |
| 08:31.30 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=martin@gw-colt.fotango.com) |
| 08:40.46 | *** join/#gllug XPSlammer (n=martin@gw-colt.fotango.com) |
| 08:44.30 | *** join/#gllug goibhniu (n=cillian@marx.jamkit.com) |
| 08:58.30 | *** join/#gllug chris_ (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com) |
| 08:58.55 | *** join/#gllug chris_ (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com) |
| 09:05.42 | *** join/#gllug huw-l (n=huw@novatech.cs.cf.ac.uk) |
| 09:24.51 | *** join/#gllug shai_ (n=Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) |
| 09:37.28 | *** join/#gllug AnneC (n=AnneC@cmarfw01.marlow.spinvox.com) |
| 09:38.01 | *** join/#gllug tripitaka (n=chatzill@83.217.101.115) |
| 10:02.06 | phearless | . |
| 10:02.06 | phearless | .. |
| 10:02.07 | phearless | ... |
| 10:08.53 | Ch0Hag | ? |
| 10:10.03 | Ch0Hag | ?? |
| 10:12.44 | Ch0Hag | ??? |
| 10:12.54 | wethrin | ! |
| 10:12.55 | wethrin | !! |
| 10:12.56 | wethrin | !!! |
| 10:58.38 | AnneC | ... |
| 10:58.42 | AnneC | .. |
| 10:58.43 | AnneC | . |
| 10:59.39 | *** join/#gllug AnneC (n=AnneC@cmarfw01.marlow.spinvox.com) |
| 11:00.06 | wethrin | wb |
| 11:00.16 | wethrin | So. Beer festival, tomorrow. |
| 11:04.47 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 11:08.24 | AnneC | you only think about beer wethrin, whether there's a festival or not. |
| 11:08.35 | wethrin | That's not true! |
| 11:08.40 | wethrin | Sometimes I think about PIES |
| 11:09.01 | AnneC | a negligible amount of time it seems |
| 11:09.16 | wethrin | And just now I thought about paying for an item I just won on eBay |
| 11:10.37 | wethrin | Time for some work, anyway. |
| 11:12.44 | Leeds | evening |
| 11:14.42 | Ch0Hag | Work? It's time for lunch. |
| 11:18.59 | *** join/#gllug geospart (n=geospart@adsl-154-19-28.clt.bellsouth.net) |
| 11:21.11 | *** join/#gllug antiphase (n=ant@2001:a88:0:fffe:240:5ff:fea5:8526) |
| 11:21.22 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (n=mikejw@host86-149-167-232.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:21.41 | mikejw | heelo |
| 11:32.36 | rhowe | Leeds: Aha, you finally bought some stamps - thanks :) |
| 11:34.58 | niv_one_three | hi all |
| 11:35.31 | niv_one_three | say, I got a hard disk based audio player (rio karma) |
| 11:36.04 | niv_one_three | the battary seems to be close to EOL , I will replace it soon, should I also change the hard disk? |
| 11:37.52 | goibhniu | niv_one_three: do you do a lot of jogging? |
| 11:55.30 | niv_one_three | goibhniu: I do not jogtoo often |
| 11:55.50 | niv_one_three | I am considering replaing it with a 16Gb cf |
| 11:56.09 | niv_one_three | what does these new letters mean ; SDHC ? |
| 11:57.55 | antiphase | Super-Duper Hard Cock |
| 12:00.27 | rhowe | niv_one_three: Secure Digital High Capacity |
| 12:00.33 | rhowe | niv_one_three: SD cards >= 8GB IIRC |
| 12:04.06 | Leeds | not in any way compatible with existing SD readers |
| 12:04.43 | *** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-68-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 12:12.05 | morsing | boudiccas! |
| 12:12.52 | boudiccas | morsing! |
| 12:13.03 | morsing | Leeds: How's work? |
| 12:13.58 | Leeds | morsing: ugh |
| 12:20.07 | *** join/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:31.23 | goibhniu | hmm ... so when I write a bash script to do something to the DIRSTACK array it's out of scope (from within the script) ... this makes me sad |
| 12:31.38 | goibhniu | hey dick_turpin ... are you sad too? |
| 12:32.15 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Coz I'm evil I'm rolling on the floor with laughter ;-) |
| 12:32.50 | goibhniu | well maybe this will make you sad ... my computer has stopped freezing up on me |
| 12:33.11 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Bastard |
| 12:33.27 | goibhniu | ^_^ |
| 12:34.52 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Had a really funny event yesterday (Well I thought it was funny) wanna hear or are you going to sod off as per usual? |
| 12:35.12 | goibhniu | oh .. go on then |
| 12:36.04 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Had Friday and Monday off (Long weekend) came back to loads of crap that had been left which I arranged to be dealt with on Thur |
| 12:36.15 | goibhniu | yay! |
| 12:37.43 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: So I had purchased a Toshiba M5 for a customer which was faulty |
| 12:37.43 | goibhniu | and? |
| 12:37.50 | goibhniu | oh .. yeah? |
| 12:38.30 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Suffice to say it wasn't swapped out and customer was hopping mad |
| 12:38.42 | goibhniu | nice one! |
| 12:38.49 | goibhniu | yah ... and? |
| 12:39.06 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: I rang PC World (Jnc 10 M6) (Funny bit coming) |
| 12:39.44 | goibhniu | ok ...ok (preparing for laughter) |
| 12:40.28 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Some spotty low life tried to sell to me ME of all people "Oh no I can tell you from extensive experience you won't get one of them today" |
| 12:41.08 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (n=mikejw@host86-149-167-232.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:41.27 | goibhniu | dick_turpin: the shodster!! |
| 12:41.50 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: "Why not buy this", yadder yadder yadder, with XP home I might add absolutely useless for business environments |
| 12:42.23 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Oops I mean Vista home |
| 12:42.52 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Even after I'd specifically said XP Pro |
| 12:43.49 | goibhniu | ohhh ... it does get me angry when sales people tell me what I really need |
| 12:44.01 | goibhniu | did you punch them? |
| 12:44.29 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: When my phone gets invented (Remember) I will |
| 12:46.01 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: I've got a refurbished supplier, nice guy, known him 7 years and he does the same. I'll ask for something and he comes back with something totally different |
| 12:47.01 | goibhniu | ohh ... I hate that |
| 12:48.34 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Monday drove down to Western-Super-Mare 2 hours in the car, what a shit hole we stayed 1 hour then drove all the way back home again! I'm having a terrible life |
| 12:49.15 | *** join/#gllug niv_one_three (n=niv@bzq-84-108-124-194.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 12:49.25 | goibhniu | I have no idea what that is ... but it sounds very shit ... I'm glad I stayed at home |
| 12:49.49 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Huh supposedly its a sea side |
| 12:51.12 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Friday took my daughters to West Midlands Safari Park was hoping this scutters familys son would get his head bit off by the bloody big lion, no such luck. |
| 12:52.19 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Big signs saying "Lock all windows and doors" what do the morons in front do? have all the windows open offering food to the frigging lions! |
| 12:53.07 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (n=mikejw@host86-149-167-232.range86-149.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:55.13 | goibhniu | that is very disappointing |
| 12:55.42 | goibhniu | they should at least have some electrical shocking device for children like that |
| 12:55.49 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: I know I'd have payed double entrance fee to see that |
| 12:56.20 | goibhniu | in a better world |
| 12:57.14 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: You know you just cant believe the news reports |
| 12:58.28 | goibhniu | err.... what news reports? |
| 12:59.12 | boudiccas | GBBF loses some of its beer ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/6936603.stm |
| 12:59.34 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Supposedly all these Social Network sites are chock full of outrageous pron! I've got a Facebook account and cant find any |
| 12:59.48 | goibhniu | dick_turpin: you need to join gllug |
| 13:00.09 | goibhniu | the facebook gllug group that is |
| 13:00.26 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: You must be joking they really swim the depths of depravity |
| 13:00.27 | goibhniu | Leeds: won't join because he doesn't smell |
| 13:03.45 | dick_turpin | goibhniu: Joined (God help me) |
| 13:09.06 | Leeds | goibhniu? |
| 13:09.34 | *** join/#gllug geoserver (n=geoseve@adsl-154-19-28.clt.bellsouth.net) |
| 13:11.20 | goibhniu | Leeds: never mind .. you said you wouldn't be facebook friends with anyone you hadn't really met ... i.e. smellt i.e. #gllug etc etc |
| 13:11.54 | goibhniu | or are you gonna tell me how to access the DIRSTACK array from within a script? |
| 13:11.56 | Leeds | ah, right |
| 13:12.11 | Leeds | I neither know nor care of your DIRSTACK problems :-P |
| 13:14.20 | goibhniu | surely there's a bash guru here? |
| 13:15.35 | dick_turpin | Wow look at that tumble weed |
| 13:17.31 | hali | use DIRSTACK? |
| 13:17.36 | hali | what do you want to do with it |
| 13:18.08 | hali | do some pushd'ing |
| 13:18.11 | hali | then ... for D in ${DIRSTACK[@]}; do echo $D; done |
| 13:19.18 | goibhniu | but when I put that in a script ... DIRSTACK is outta scope |
| 13:19.35 | goibhniu | I would like to be able to save/swap DIRSTACKS |
| 13:20.08 | goibhniu | I'm quite lame at bash, so I'm guessing there's something simple here |
| 13:21.59 | goibhniu | just in case I'm not making sense |
| 13:22.14 | goibhniu | when I say DIRSTACK is out of scope I mean |
| 13:22.22 | Leeds | personally, I think you're investing too much time/effort in a convenience feature |
| 13:22.42 | goibhniu | well, I think it's fun |
| 13:22.43 | Leeds | but that's probably because you use bash differently from me |
| 13:22.53 | goibhniu | and I think it would be handy |
| 13:23.08 | Leeds | submit a patch... |
| 13:23.27 | goibhniu | for what? |
| 13:24.10 | goibhniu | I guess it's the same issue as accessing variables from a parent shell |
| 13:24.15 | niv_one_three | ok, the last porcupine tree cd so adoctive |
| 13:24.17 | hali | goibhniu: what are you trying to do? if you call a script with source or just "." it will be in scope, and you can save your current DIRSTACK (which is just a plain array) with MYSTACK=${DIRSTACK[@]} ... (MYSTACK myst be typeset as an array (typeset -a)) |
| 13:25.37 | hali | you can probaly write a function and put that in PROMPT_COMMAND if you want some magic |
| 13:26.40 | goibhniu | hali: fancy!!! ... source script.sh does the magic |
| 13:27.23 | goibhniu | very cool! thanks! |
| 13:50.54 | *** join/#gllug AnneC (n=AnneC@cmarfw01.marlow.spinvox.com) |
| 14:04.24 | *** join/#gllug mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@CPE0050181121d5-CM0012254493da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:34.36 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 15:26.18 | gw280 | woohoo, quad core |
| 15:26.19 | gw280 | wooooooooooo |
| 15:26.55 | boudiccas | george is stuck for words |
| 15:31.19 | hali | quad core is good bang for buck |
| 15:32.08 | hali | we've got some boxes with 5335 procs... they own pretty much everything else we have |
| 15:32.13 | hali | in terms of x86 performance that is |
| 15:32.43 | gw280 | model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU @ 2.40GHz |
| 15:33.47 | hali | desktop? |
| 15:39.10 | *** part/#gllug dick_turpin (n=dick_tur@host217-34-163-30.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 16:38.27 | z00dax | gw280:6600 ? |
| 16:39.08 | gw280 | gw280: yeah |
| 16:39.14 | gw280 | er, z00dax yeah |
| 16:39.21 | z00dax | humm, talking to yourself again gw280 |
| 16:39.26 | gw280 | also, I'm famous: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/08/07/new-webkit-backend-under-development-for-n800-web-browser |
| 16:40.01 | z00dax | http://episteme.arstechnica.com/images/judge.gif |
| 16:40.02 | z00dax | :! |
| 16:56.12 | *** part/#gllug tripitaka (n=chatzill@83.217.101.115) |
| 17:15.55 | wethrin | rar |
| 17:16.17 | wethrin | oh |
| 17:59.12 | *** join/#gllug catalyst (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 18:13.20 | *** join/#gllug goibhniu (n=cillian@87-194-36-120.bethere.co.uk) |
| 18:27.49 | *** join/#gllug goltor (n=goltor@77-99-148-49.cable.ubr06.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:28.00 | *** part/#gllug goltor (n=goltor@77-99-148-49.cable.ubr06.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:05.20 | kjalil | wethrin: ? |
| 19:05.31 | kjalil | or anyone else with solaris experience? |
| 19:07.00 | antiphase | Ask the question, foo' ;) |
| 19:07.29 | kjalil | antiphase: hello :-) |
| 19:07.51 | kjalil | simple question, to play around with solaris, solaris 10 or opensolaris? |
| 19:08.00 | kjalil | just to play around and get familiar |
| 19:08.23 | antiphase | I'd use the real Solaris 10 personally, depends if you want to hack the source though |
| 19:08.24 | kjalil | i think it is opensolaris express 11 or something like that |
| 19:08.46 | kjalil | antiphase: not initially, no. well, i'm not sure either way |
| 19:08.54 | antiphase | ANyone actually using Solaris commercialy would be using the real one, so if you're looking for experience it makes sense |
| 19:09.05 | antiphase | The others are just works in progress |
| 19:09.27 | kjalil | antiphase: yeah same thoughts here. maybe i'll install both. i'm currently installing opensolaris in a VM anyway |
| 19:10.05 | antiphase | Solaris 8 or 9 are still going to be common, but not significantly different apart from the absence of SMF |
| 19:10.16 | antiphase | They're also not freely available |
| 19:10.42 | kjalil | smf: server management framework? |
| 19:11.10 | antiphase | Yes, the wotsit for managing what used to be SysV init and inetd |
| 19:11.49 | kjalil | used to be? hmm, i know less about this than i thought. i thought sysv and inetd is still used by many, at least in linux |
| 19:12.25 | clive-h | init and xinetd are used by some distros |
| 19:12.54 | clive-h | others have switched to something else in place of init |
| 19:13.57 | clive-h | smf is a useful thing to know |
| 19:14.34 | antiphase | For everything else there's inetconv |
| 19:16.06 | clive-h | There's a subtle difference between init on linux and solaris |
| 19:16.24 | kjalil | clive-h: wait, you mean upstart in ubuntu for example? and i think fedora or suse is contemplating replacing init for better dependency management... am i right? |
| 19:16.54 | clive-h | I believe they're talking about for Fedora 8 |
| 19:17.25 | clive-h | But even on existing Redhat oses it's different to the way it works on Solaris |
| 19:17.27 | kjalil | clive-h: yeah, there was an article a few weeks ago about suse guys trying to make their boot time less than 5 secs or something crazy like that |
| 19:17.54 | clive-h | init 4 for example on Solaris goes through the scripts for run levels 2,3,4 |
| 19:18.12 | clive-h | in classic SysV fashion |
| 19:18.37 | clive-h | Redhat just processes the level 4 scripts |
| 19:18.38 | kjalil | clive-h: yes that looks right... |
| 19:18.46 | kjalil | clive-h: oh really? |
| 19:19.02 | *** join/#gllug catalyst` (n=catalyst@allegro/user/angelchild) |
| 19:19.08 | clive-h | and killall on linux and solaris do remarkably different things |
| 19:19.14 | antiphase | Heh |
| 19:19.16 | kjalil | clive-h: you mean centos would do the same? i should check this. |
| 19:19.41 | clive-h | Yeah centos is the same it's essentail Redhat Enterprise |
| 19:20.20 | kjalil | clive-h: doesn't centos have the same /etc/rc2.d, /etc/rc3.d structure, that's sysv right? with links in /etc/init.d? |
| 19:20.26 | kjalil | sorry, the other way around... |
| 19:20.34 | kjalil | links in /etc/rc3.d for example |
| 19:21.30 | clive-h | Similar yes |
| 19:21.36 | clive-h | But not identical |
| 19:21.46 | clive-h | but yes there's a /etc/rc2.d etc |
| 19:22.43 | kjalil | hmm, i must check this myself sometime. i find it hard to believe they would give the same structure, but use it differently. that's just confusing to people who know how it's 'supposed' to work |
| 19:23.48 | clive-h | Well the initial linux distros used something that wasn't sysV init at all |
| 19:23.53 | clive-h | More BSD like |
| 19:24.11 | kjalil | clive-h: yes, slackware with it's /etc/rc.local and stuff |
| 19:24.17 | kjalil | and /etc/rc.network |
| 19:24.39 | clive-h | gentoo is different yet again but still has /etc/rc2.d etc |
| 19:25.34 | kjalil | slackware is still sexy sometimes :-) I actually enjoyed writing my own script to get my wpa networking working in slackware 11. i had to read and understand scripting to do it. it was fun |
| 19:25.56 | antiphase | BSD and Solaris disk partitioning are similar, and quite different to Linux |
| 19:26.14 | clive-h | scripting is common to all linux distros of course but the particularities are different |
| 19:26.20 | kjalil | i really dislike how in ubuntu the networkmanager either works or doesn't. if it breaks i don't know how to diagnose it sometimes |
| 19:26.45 | kjalil | too much 'magic' going on |
| 19:26.46 | clive-h | Linux on sparc uses the solaris disk structure |
| 19:26.53 | clive-h | slices |
| 19:26.54 | antiphase | What's a networkmanager? |
| 19:27.12 | antiphase | Do you mean '/sbin/ip'? |
| 19:27.18 | antiphase | ;) |
| 19:27.23 | clive-h | nah wifi type thing |
| 19:27.25 | kjalil | antiphase: in ubuntu and newer distros, like fedora, a gnome applet that discovers all wireless networks for you |
| 19:27.31 | clive-h | It's horrendous |
| 19:27.39 | antiphase | Ah, I don't do wireless |
| 19:27.58 | clive-h | I do on laptops |
| 19:28.06 | kjalil | for example, all i wanted was to connect to my wireless network, but specify my OWN static IP. and I can't get it working in ubuntu |
| 19:28.12 | clive-h | Though this one is hard wired to the LAN |
| 19:28.37 | clive-h | I had to edit some files on fedora 7 to get it working with wifi |
| 19:28.49 | kjalil | i had to disable networkmanager and manually edit the scripts, which is fine by me, but if they provide this app, it should work! |
| 19:29.12 | morsing | kjalil! |
| 19:29.25 | kjalil | clive-h: my wireless works sweetly with networkmanager, it's just customizing it slightly doesn't always work |
| 19:29.29 | kjalil | morsing: ! |
| 19:29.44 | kjalil | clive-h: it insists on dhcp |
| 19:30.01 | clive-h | Probably useful if you carry your laptop around |
| 19:30.06 | kjalil | in ubuntu anyway. |
| 19:30.26 | kjalil | yes very useful, and it is correctly designed for that purpose. but don't you dare change it :-) |
| 19:30.29 | clive-h | Mine's always on my desk plugged into my lan |
| 19:31.23 | kjalil | stupid question, but can anyone recommend a good chair? for longer periods of hacking? :) |
| 19:31.31 | kjalil | or pretending to hack, whatever |
| 19:31.34 | clive-h | I need to reflash my wifi access point |
| 19:31.44 | clive-h | Whatever you find comfortable |
| 19:31.49 | morsing | clive-h: How are you today? |
| 19:31.53 | z00dax | morsing: ! |
| 19:31.59 | clive-h | I like computer chairs with arms |
| 19:32.01 | z00dax | morsing: are you going to be a the gbbf tomorrow ? |
| 19:32.03 | clive-h | I'm okay |
| 19:32.06 | kjalil | clive-h: any good brands? things to avoid? |
| 19:32.09 | clive-h | Hi morsing |
| 19:32.10 | kjalil | z00dax: ! |
| 19:32.18 | morsing | z00dax: I am yes |
| 19:32.18 | z00dax | kjalil: hello |
| 19:32.28 | z00dax | morsing: excellent, we shall see you there |
| 19:32.30 | clive-h | kjalil : no idea I bought this a PC world I think |
| 19:32.35 | clive-h | *at |
| 19:32.41 | morsing | z00dax: You won't be there though |
| 19:32.52 | z00dax | morsing: how do you know that ? |
| 19:33.21 | morsing | z00dax: Because you're in india |
| 19:33.26 | goibhniu | kjalil: I got a nice chair on holloway road |
| 19:33.36 | z00dax | err no, i got back about 12 days back |
| 19:33.39 | kjalil | z00dax: i'm trying to learn how to package things in rpm on centos. if you want to make packages for something, maybe i can help? |
| 19:33.42 | morsing | You did? |
| 19:33.50 | z00dax | kjalil: sure |
| 19:33.52 | morsing | z00dax: Well - maybe you'll make it tomorrow then |
| 19:34.00 | z00dax | morsing: thats the plan! |
| 19:34.03 | *** join/#gllug geospart (n=geospart@adsl-154-19-28.clt.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:34.07 | kjalil | goibhniu: holloway road? who did you nick it from? and is he ok? :) |
| 19:34.10 | clive-h | rpm's are fairly easy |
| 19:34.10 | z00dax | kjalil: what sort of things are you packagaing at the moment / |
| 19:34.17 | clive-h | as are sparc packages |
| 19:34.33 | morsing | geospart! |
| 19:34.49 | geospart | hey |
| 19:35.01 | kjalil | z00dax: absolutely nothing! i'm preparing for my LPI exam on Monday :) thought it might be good practice. |
| 19:35.06 | clive-h | I packaged loads of stuff for the BBC |
| 19:35.32 | kjalil | clive-h: source rpms? binary? when is one better than the other? |
| 19:35.57 | clive-h | Well both in fact |
| 19:36.14 | kjalil | clive-h: source if you need a package optimized for the machine? is that the deal? |
| 19:36.20 | clive-h | but binary ones are the ones you usually want to distrib it |
| 19:36.39 | clive-h | This was a mixture of open source and the BBcs own code |
| 19:37.06 | kjalil | z00dax: maybe some simple ones to try ... i will at least be contributing something useful that way. and you can help me if I make mistakes |
| 19:41.42 | z00dax | kjalil: your exam is on Monday and you want to know all about doing rpms before then ? |
| 19:42.08 | z00dax | its the sort of thing that does need you to know about the various bits of info about your distro and howto manage files and also have a fair idea of policy etc. |
| 19:44.23 | kjalil | z00dax: oh no, i can take my time... i've already read the essential things for the exam, like how it works and the full rpm manpage, etc. just wanted to get some practice actually making a real one |
| 19:44.53 | antiphase | o_O |
| 19:45.15 | z00dax | kjalil: you know that you cant make a binary rpm without a source first ? |
| 19:45.33 | clive-h | mv source.tar.gz into /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES |
| 19:45.42 | kjalil | z00dax: yes, i've read about putting the sources into /usr/src/redhat, etc |
| 19:45.54 | clive-h | extract the spec file etc |
| 19:45.56 | kjalil | z00dax: and making a .spec file in /usr/src/redhat/SPECS |
| 19:46.01 | z00dax | actually, you should never use /usr/src/redhat - sice you should never build a rpm as root |
| 19:46.06 | z00dax | s/sice/since/ |
| 19:46.37 | z00dax | you should be definiing %topdir in ~/.rpmmacros and use that |
| 19:46.48 | clive-h | I usually have a build machine that's not externally available |
| 19:47.18 | z00dax | clive-h: evn so - building as root is not nice, since a misplaced rm -rf %_libdir; might blow away the real machines /usr/lib |
| 19:47.25 | z00dax | s/evn/even/ |
| 19:47.39 | clive-h | that's true |
| 19:48.12 | kjalil | z00dax: ok, good. so you then build the same structure in your home directory and build there? |
| 19:48.13 | clive-h | However that was the documented practice |
| 19:48.52 | z00dax | kjalil: yes. I usually setup a /home/kbsingh/rpmroot/[SPECS,BUILD,SOURCES,SRPMS,RPMS] |
| 19:49.30 | kjalil | z00dax: ok, so isn't %topdir sort of like something that should go into rpmrc? |
| 19:49.47 | z00dax | kjalil: wha docs have you been reading ? |
| 19:50.03 | z00dax | rpmrc for users was deprecated years back |
| 19:50.05 | *** join/#gllug goltor (n=goltor@77-99-148-49.cable.ubr06.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:50.13 | kjalil | z00dax: sorry, i'm not clear about what the rc file is for. i'm assuming it's for some general rpm settings? |
| 19:50.27 | z00dax | as a user on the machine, you will never ever use the rc file |
| 19:50.37 | z00dax | user specific environ settings all go into the rpmmacros file |
| 19:50.58 | z00dax | the only place, that i know of where the rpmrc is still used is solaris with its pre-historic rpm-3 |
| 19:51.04 | kjalil | z00dax: i've mostly read about using rpm, and some advanced query things. that's mostly what the exam wants |
| 19:51.23 | z00dax | kjalil: what distro are you on ? |
| 19:51.58 | kjalil | z00dax: i'm in ubuntu right now, but i've got centos-4.5 in a VM |
| 19:53.00 | kjalil | z00dax: i've also got centos-5 installed on the machine itself. it seems the LPI stuff is referring to some older files, that's why I installed 4.5 |
| 19:53.26 | kjalil | z00dax: for example, they don't even talk about xorg.conf, only XF86Config |
| 19:53.30 | clive-h | centos 5 is very recent |
| 19:53.49 | kjalil | clive-h: yes, that's why i installed the older one |
| 19:54.27 | clive-h | I rolled out Centos-4.2 on a cluster at my last contract |
| 20:01.52 | clive-h | Though EPEL didn't exist at that point |
| 20:03.17 | kjalil | z00dax: i think i will read about and try it out on my own first, then i'll get back to you :-) |
| 20:03.52 | morsing | Beer |
| 20:05.05 | z00dax | kjalil: http://www.gurulabs.com/GURULABS-RPM-LAB/GURULABS-RPM-GUIDE-v1.0.PDF |
| 20:05.29 | z00dax | kjalil: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ |
| 20:05.46 | z00dax | those are both good resources, both address the ideas behind rpm and both talk about howto go about creating rpms |
| 20:06.03 | kjalil | z00dax: thanks. it will be much easier when I know a bit more. sorry about bothering you without knowing more about it :( |
| 20:06.17 | z00dax | no worries, I am always happy to help as much as i can |
| 20:06.30 | z00dax | one thing you should do is - make sure that the redhat-rpm-config rpm is installed in your centos VM |
| 20:06.35 | z00dax | yum install redhat-rpm-config |
| 20:06.37 | z00dax | that should do it |
| 20:07.33 | clive-h | There's talk of forking rpm anyway |
| 20:07.42 | kjalil | z00dax: hmm, ok, will do |
| 20:07.45 | z00dax | clive-h: rpm5.org |
| 20:08.18 | z00dax | its not really a fork really, its still going to be a upstream -> downstream situation. |
| 20:08.20 | gw280 | anyone know how ethernet devices are assigned names? for some reason my desktop's decided to start enumerating from 2, so I have an eth2 and an eth3 with no 0 or 1 |
| 20:08.35 | z00dax | gw280: /etc/modprobe.conf |
| 20:08.41 | kjalil | z00dax: with better dependency checking added to rpm distros using yum, is apt and dpkg still better? |
| 20:08.46 | gw280 | z00dax: right |
| 20:08.57 | z00dax | kjalil: apt and dpkg were never better |
| 20:09.18 | z00dax | they just had combined repo's where lots of stuff was just there in 1 big heap |
| 20:09.27 | kjalil | z00dax: well, they have always felt better, maybe easier to use in terms of dependencies |
| 20:09.56 | z00dax | kjalil: mostly because of the repository side of things |
| 20:10.02 | clive-h | i prefer yum and rpm to apt and dpkg |
| 20:10.28 | kjalil | hmm, so there is nothing really better let's say about the rpm package file format over dpkg? |
| 20:11.16 | z00dax | rpm has always been a better setup, although some might argue either way |
| 20:11.36 | z00dax | in a nutshell, what you get is basically just a payload with metadata around it |
| 20:11.44 | clive-h | rpm is basically a header concatentated with a cpio archive |
| 20:12.08 | z00dax | how the metadata is handled and how much of it is preserved and modifyable, is what makes rpm better of the two |
| 20:12.13 | clive-h | deb is an ar archive with a control file and a data portion |
| 20:12.20 | z00dax | clive-h: deb's are also about the same |
| 20:12.30 | clive-h | Indeed |
| 20:12.45 | clive-h | tar rather than cpio |
| 20:12.52 | kjalil | clive-h: *ahem* i'm not old enough to know about cpio unfortunately :) |
| 20:13.01 | antiphase | Super, my Thunderbird just exited spontaneously |
| 20:13.11 | clive-h | Old enough? |
| 20:13.17 | clive-h | cpio is still used |
| 20:13.40 | kjalil | clive-h: sorry, i've been using and reading about linux since 1998 or so. but i've almost never run into the cpio command |
| 20:13.54 | kjalil | just a coincidence i guess |
| 20:14.03 | clive-h | let's see |
| 20:14.08 | antiphase | You've probably never used UUCP either |
| 20:14.14 | kjalil | antiphase: yes, never |
| 20:14.25 | clive-h | I think Oracle still ship their code as cpio |
| 20:14.31 | z00dax | kjalil!what!you!never!used!bang!paths! ? |
| 20:14.33 | clive-h | I've used uucp |
| 20:14.38 | clive-h | and x.25 |
| 20:14.48 | kjalil | z00dax: lol. no :) i've read about those |
| 20:15.00 | antiphase | They still persist on Usenet |
| 20:15.07 | antiphase | Only internally though |
| 20:15.08 | kjalil | clive-h: yes, i remember you told me you've been doing this for a very long time. |
| 20:15.23 | morsing | ibot uucp |
| 20:15.24 | ibot | [uucp] the Unix to Unix Copy Protocol, used for mail over non-permanent dialup links. |
| 20:15.27 | kjalil | clive-h: that's what I meant. sorry I didn't mean to offend |
| 20:15.29 | clive-h | yep |
| 20:16.06 | kjalil | clive-h: what exactly is cpio, you talk about it alongside tar... |
| 20:16.18 | antiphase | `man cpio` |
| 20:16.21 | clive-h | For a good reason |
| 20:16.31 | kjalil | antiphase: just did that |
| 20:16.31 | clive-h | cpio is another archiving program |
| 20:16.42 | clive-h | pax can do both tar and cpio |
| 20:16.49 | kjalil | antiphase: 'cpio is documented in the info page ...' |
| 20:17.03 | clive-h | It's also part of the Single unix specification |
| 20:17.12 | z00dax | ok, need to get some work done - bbl |
| 20:17.22 | kjalil | z00dax: thanks |
| 20:17.31 | clive-h | info is a menace |
| 20:17.42 | clive-h | worst thing RMS ever did |
| 20:17.46 | kjalil | antiphase: exactly why i quit the manpage and never bothered to read the info page |
| 20:18.07 | kjalil | clive-h: why don't they just import everything over to man pages? |
| 20:18.34 | kjalil | bbiab |
| 20:18.41 | clive-h | It's gnu stuff |
| 20:18.50 | clive-h | RMS wants it to be broken |
| 20:19.06 | morsing | ibot RMS |
| 20:19.06 | ibot | methinks rms is the founder of GNU, and wrote the really cool text editor EMACS |
| 20:19.17 | clive-h | and teco |
| 20:19.29 | clive-h | which was also cool |
| 20:20.57 | morsing | Pico? |
| 20:21.27 | clive-h | pico is horrendous |
| 20:21.50 | clive-h | if you want an emacs like editor use zile |
| 20:21.58 | clive-h | It's small |
| 20:22.34 | clive-h | and if you know not of teco go look on wikipedia |
| 20:25.42 | morsing | How do I edit an article there? |
| 20:25.45 | morsing | :) |
| 20:25.47 | morsing | SORRY |
| 20:26.18 | clive-h | Read the instructions perhaps |
| 20:26.22 | clive-h | then do so |
| 20:27.07 | clive-h | You asked the same question yesterday |
| 20:27.21 | clive-h | This is a *LINUX* channel |
| 20:29.11 | morsing | Right... |
| 20:29.37 | clive-h | Personally I neither know, or want to know how to edit wikipedia |
| 20:30.05 | clive-h | Though if I read the instructions I'm sure I could do so |
| 20:30.14 | antiphase | Teco is clearly very wrong |
| 20:30.15 | morsing | It looks difficult |
| 20:30.23 | morsing | antiphase: It's not Linux |
| 20:30.29 | clive-h | teco? |
| 20:30.38 | clive-h | teco runs happily on linux |
| 20:30.43 | antiphase | Wikis are easy, the slightly crazy markup is irritating though |
| 20:30.55 | morsing | But it's not Linux so shouldn't be discussed here |
| 20:31.52 | clive-h | keep asking about the same thing day after day seems senseless |
| 20:31.59 | morsing | antiphase: My question (that I'm not allowed to ask on a non-wikipedia channel) was more if someone would read through it and then submit it or if my change would just immediately appear |
| 20:32.14 | clive-h | You preview it |
| 20:32.15 | morsing | clive-h: I don't think I asked more than once... |
| 20:32.33 | clive-h | You asked about 10 people directly by name yesterday |
| 20:32.40 | antiphase | It appears immediately, some Hitler may roll back the changes if they are perceived to be inaccurate or otherwise offensive |
| 20:32.57 | morsing | antiphase: Ahh... Good. What I wanted to know :) |
| 20:33.01 | clive-h | and then submit the changes I believe |
| 20:33.35 | antiphase | You need to have registered and logged in to make changes |
| 20:33.41 | morsing | Ok |
| 20:43.34 | kjalil | morsing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contributing_FAQ#How_can_I_contribute.3F |
| 20:44.42 | kjalil | morsing: you don't have to register to edit pages. From that page: "Anyone can edit without any kind of registration (except disruptive users who have been banned.)" |
| 21:32.20 | wethrin | kjalil: ?? |
| 21:34.09 | wethrin | oh. No matter |
| 21:35.33 | kjalil | wethrin: yes |
| 21:36.05 | kjalil | wethrin: sorry, just needed some advice about solaris versus opensolaris express. which one to use to get familiar with solaris |
| 21:36.23 | kjalil | wethrin: i seem to think you know solaris |
| 21:36.33 | wethrin | not very well. I've used it on occasion |
| 21:37.04 | kjalil | wethrin: it's cool. i'll try both. opensolaris is painfully slow to install in my VM though |
| 21:37.42 | wethrin | I'd use real hardware |
| 21:37.52 | wethrin | Actually, the last desktop system I had to set up in a hurry, I used Solaris 10 |
| 21:38.02 | antiphase | Solaris is slow to install whatever you do with it |
| 21:38.14 | wethrin | But you can do other things while it installs |
| 21:38.36 | wethrin | I, for example, went on IRC |
| 21:38.37 | antiphase | Have a wank |
| 21:38.52 | kjalil | wethrin: yeah i'm thinking of using real hw too |
| 21:39.06 | wethrin | antiphase: It'd have to be a very long wank |
| 21:42.49 | gw280 | god I love my new computer |
| 21:43.16 | wethrin | you're giving it the George-lovin'? |
| 21:43.17 | clive-h | the quad thing? |
| 21:43.22 | gw280 | yes |
| 21:43.28 | gw280 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:44.07 | wethrin | You're resyncing a raid? |
| 21:44.11 | clive-h | i'll have to stick with my dual core box |
| 21:44.36 | gw280 | wethrin: I am |
| 21:44.42 | wethrin | good for you |
| 21:44.53 | gw280 | wethrin: but 40MB/s on a RAID array is bloody good performance for sustained write |
| 21:45.27 | gw280 | the RAM's also running at 1066MHz |
| 21:45.29 | gw280 | which is nice |
| 21:46.29 | antiphase | I've seen better reconstruction performance than that with 3 SATA1 drives in RAID-5 |
| 21:46.32 | gw280 | http://vm.gwright.org.uk/images/?dir=images/office <-- our new office :) |
| 21:49.11 | z00dax | gw280: I have an Areca 1220 raid card with 8 x 500 GiB seagate drives hanging off the back of that... |
| 21:49.26 | z00dax | setup in a raid-0+1, quite fast |
| 21:49.32 | gw280 | heh |
| 21:49.38 | gw280 | my hardware predates that |
| 21:50.39 | z00dax | I had to spend 3 days working pretty much 24/7 stabalising a driver for that card... |
| 21:50.47 | z00dax | atleast I got that kit for free |
| 21:50.53 | wethrin | z00dax: I'll buy it for a dollar! |
| 21:51.21 | z00dax | wethrin: 600 pounds, its yours |
| 21:51.33 | wethrin | I can't afford that! |
| 21:51.39 | z00dax | me neither! |
| 21:51.41 | wethrin | I'll buy you a couple of beers, though |
| 21:52.01 | z00dax | pass :) |
| 21:52.13 | wethrin | bah |
| 21:52.26 | wethrin | So should I send a reminder email about tomorrow out, or send it tomorrow? |
| 21:53.11 | z00dax | send it about 11am tomorrow, by then most people have deleted overnight spam and are actually reading emails again |
| 21:55.28 | wethrin | right |
| 21:55.34 | wethrin | So about when I get in, then |
| 21:55.38 | wethrin | CIJS: I hate moths |
| 21:56.10 | z00dax | the lovely people at experian charge about 50k to tell you that sending spam^w email at that time gets the max response rate |
| 21:56.43 | wethrin | and we can get the information for free here |
| 22:29.14 | *** join/#gllug gregj (n=gj@81-186-226-63.citynet.pl) |
| 22:29.26 | wethrin | gregj! |
| 22:29.57 | gregj | ! |
| 22:31.41 | Leeds | woo, T3 |
| 22:31.56 | wethrin | My laptop is starting to feel its age now, when doing photo stuff |
| 22:32.01 | wethrin | No, the T2's only just come out |
| 22:32.43 | Leeds | means HK is formally under typhoon conditions - albeit a weak one |
| 22:32.48 | wethrin | ahhh |
| 22:33.29 | Leeds | it's only a tropical storm now, not a typhoon - but it's also only about 15-20 miles away |
| 22:33.51 | wethrin | got a bit of wind up? |
| 22:34.49 | Leeds | not noticeably, no... but then I am still in bed, so my personal weather observations consist of "what I can see out of the crack in the curtains" |
| 22:35.09 | wethrin | aye |
| 22:36.54 | Leeds | funny watching newbies get all excited because either they want to be hit by a hurricane, or they want the day off work... |
| 22:38.13 | wethrin | heh |
| 22:38.38 | Leeds | not that I wouldn't like a day off work, of course :-) but it takes more than a near-miss from a TS for that |
| 23:14.17 | *** join/#gllug mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@bas10-toronto12-1177644162.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:36.13 | *** join/#gllug chris_ (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com) |
| 23:56.43 | *** join/#gllug Chr2s (n=chatzill@crag1.plus.com) |
