| 04:23.22 | *** join/#gllug keithlard_ (n=keithlar@host217-34-140-129.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 06:13.04 | sanelson | moin |
| 07:13.00 | *** join/#gllug JohnDoe666 (n=JohnDoe6@vserver.johndoe666.info) |
| 07:15.53 | andrew___ | hi there |
| 08:19.23 | sanelson | or maybe just ______ |
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| 09:32.27 | *** part/#gllug ceronman (n=ceronman@195.167.155.178) |
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| 10:19.55 | wethrin | people! |
| 10:20.22 | Ch0Hag | Where? Hide! |
| 10:21.06 | wethrin | Don't believe them all |
| 10:33.02 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=martin@gw-colt.fotango.com) |
| 10:54.28 | *** join/#gllug jcookeman (n=jcook@83.244.128.126) |
| 11:04.58 | jcookeman | Good afternoon folks |
| 11:05.11 | wethrin | ahoy |
| 11:08.14 | Ch0Hag | Land cap'n! |
| 11:25.02 | *** join/#gllug sanelson_ (n=stephen@atalanta-systems.com) |
| 11:25.41 | wethrin | sanelson_! |
| 11:30.44 | jcookeman | request permission to board |
| 11:42.33 | wethrin | Right. Who wants to give a talk at the next Gllug meeting? |
| 11:42.48 | LeedsHK | wethrin: pay my expenses |
| 11:42.51 | sanelson_ | sure - the conditions are a bit crap for a few years - 4 to a dorm is ok |
| 11:44.17 | wethrin | LeedsHK: I'll give you a fiver.... |
| 11:45.25 | jcookeman | I'm interested in you guy's group. Who's the best to chat with me about some general stuff gllug does...the atmosphere...etc |
| 11:45.47 | wethrin | Anyone on channel, really |
| 11:47.06 | wethrin | We're friendly enough on the whole. Except gw280 |
| 11:52.16 | jcookeman | Where do you hold meetings? |
| 11:53.16 | Ch0Hag | London. |
| 11:54.06 | LeedsHK | jcookeman: westminster uni, normally, unless things have changed |
| 11:55.09 | sanelson_ | s/Where// |
| 11:56.30 | jcookeman | LeedsHK: great! thanks |
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| 12:15.27 | *** join/#gllug londo (n=georgiou@82.133.49.59) |
| 12:22.42 | jcookeman | What sort of "talks" do you guys normally have at your meetings? |
| 12:22.45 | jcookeman | topics? |
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| 12:56.20 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 13:25.59 | SlayerXP | jcookeman: all sorts. |
| 13:39.22 | wethrin | SlayerXP: Would you be willing to give a talk? |
| 13:40.41 | SlayerXP | have I mentioned my utter terror at the thought of public speaking? |
| 13:41.19 | bilarh | what's it like being an it contractor? |
| 13:41.36 | Ch0Hag | Painful. |
| 13:41.48 | bilarh | why? |
| 13:42.04 | Ch0Hag | Largely because I am currently coding a lot of HTML. |
| 13:42.45 | bilarh | what about things like job security? |
| 13:42.55 | bilarh | how do you cope with being fired every six months? :-) |
| 13:43.15 | bilarh | mind at this one place i got fired about once every three months, but i managed to stay for 3.5 years :-) |
| 13:43.33 | Ch0Hag | Oh I'm too good to get fired. :P |
| 13:44.06 | Ch0Hag | Actually having said that I need to get some proper contracts written up. |
| 13:45.18 | wethrin | SlayerXP: No? |
| 13:45.37 | SlayerXP | wethrin: I dislike speaking in public |
| 13:46.00 | wethrin | oh |
| 13:46.02 | wethrin | bum |
| 13:46.16 | wethrin | know anyone who would be interested in talking? |
| 13:46.20 | Ch0Hag | Public speaking sucks. |
| 13:46.25 | Ch0Hag | Especially when you've nothing to talk about. |
| 13:46.50 | bilarh | chohag: it can be quite fun if you have something to talk about that a) you know lots about and b) you are interested in |
| 13:46.58 | Ch0Hag | As an aside: shall I get a pizza for £lots or a good pizza for £lots_more |
| 13:47.19 | wethrin | Go for the good one |
| 13:47.30 | Ch0Hag | That's nearly a tenner. |
| 13:47.40 | Ch0Hag | That's a lot of money for a spot of lunch. |
| 13:48.04 | bilarh | a tenner for a bloody pizza, are you mad? |
| 13:48.11 | bilarh | clearly i need to get into this contracting malarky] |
| 13:48.17 | Ch0Hag | They *are* good. |
| 13:48.24 | Ch0Hag | But I'd rather not. |
| 13:48.38 | wethrin | Lunch for a tenner is quite reasonable, no? |
| 13:48.54 | Ch0Hag | I'd get a chinese from round the corner for a fiver, but chinese takeaways always close about when I decide to get some lunch. |
| 13:49.05 | Ch0Hag | I think it's a conspiracy. |
| 13:49.37 | Ch0Hag | Lunch for a tenner is reasonable if there's more than one of you and/or you're in town somewhere. |
| 13:50.01 | Ch0Hag | But there's only one of me (well one and a half maybe) and I'm out in the sticks somewhere. |
| 13:50.49 | Ch0Hag | bilarh: I'd say the main benefit to contracting is waking up after 9:00AM |
| 13:51.01 | bilarh | you're not a normal contractor then :P |
| 13:51.14 | Ch0Hag | I try not to be a normal anything. |
| 13:51.23 | bilarh | good man :) |
| 13:51.36 | bilarh | is the money a lot better as a contractor? |
| 13:59.19 | jcookeman | bilarh: money alone is generally better if you're a contractor |
| 14:01.38 | bilarh | do you generally find it easy to find new contracts etc? |
| 14:08.29 | goibhniu | bilarh: my own experience is too limited but from talking to others it seems to be easier to get contracting jobs than permanent ones |
| 14:08.45 | goibhniu | employers don't tend to be so fussy, because they can easily let you go |
| 14:09.04 | bilarh | yeah good point |
| 14:12.16 | goibhniu | larger companies may only hire through particular agencies and they tend to take a massive cut, although in general contractor rates tend to be ridiculously high, possibly twice or more than what permies doing the same role get |
| 14:20.58 | *** join/#gllug Provito (n=Provito@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Provito) |
| 14:22.04 | bilarh | goibhniu: nice :P |
| 14:30.25 | jcookeman | I know the few RH guys on the market are asking 600/day + |
| 14:30.39 | jcookeman | all the rest are "happily" contracted |
| 14:30.42 | clive-h | I do RH |
| 14:30.50 | bilarh | fuck me, 600 quid per day |
| 14:31.12 | bilarh | in fact, for 600 quid, they could :-) |
| 14:33.14 | cpufreak | only 600quid/day? |
| 14:33.15 | cpufreak | :( |
| 14:33.18 | cpufreak | poor people |
| 14:33.58 | jcookeman | I said '+' |
| 14:36.52 | bilarh | yeah, really, thinking about it... 600 quid per day is only about 156k per year... that's barely subsistence level:( |
| 14:38.12 | wethrin | quite |
| 14:38.34 | jcookeman | What's quite surprising is that interviewing the ones floating around out there, I was quite shocked at the low level of quality for that kind of money. |
| 14:38.50 | wethrin | you gets what you pay for |
| 14:40.04 | antiphase | If you can talk the talk, I suspect it's easy to get paid a large amount of dough for being mediocre |
| 14:40.30 | antiphase | If it was easy, everyone would be doing it ;) |
| 14:41.53 | jcookeman | antiphase: true. I think one problem is the amount of people with exposure to intelligently solving business problems in conjunction with the technical skills. Not easy to come by as they're all soaked up and not enough floating around. |
| 14:42.18 | antiphase | Decent geeks rarely have suitable social skills either |
| 14:43.29 | jcookeman | antiphase: I prefer to think of it as being disciplined just right :) |
| 15:00.12 | bilarh | 600 quid per day is a serious amount of money though... need to get me some of that :) |
| 15:00.19 | flips_and_rails | ls |
| 15:00.28 | wethrin | No files |
| 15:00.36 | flips_and_rails | dammit |
| 15:01.11 | flips_and_rails | must have deleted them by an rm about 3 months ago, teach me to store files on IRC |
| 15:01.21 | wethrin | indeed |
| 15:01.31 | jcookeman | :D |
| 15:01.36 | wethrin | Actually, I think they were lost in a recent netsplit |
| 15:01.39 | wethrin | Fell through the cracks |
| 15:01.47 | flips_and_rails | =D |
| 15:01.53 | bilarh | hehe |
| 15:14.58 | bilarh | how can a the nail on my little toe cause me so much grief |
| 15:15.32 | wethrin | Cut off your foot |
| 15:15.47 | bilarh | i kicked the laptop by accident this morning when i got up (because my home is in such great order) and it split up the side and my toe started bleeding |
| 15:15.51 | bilarh | and now it's really annoyingly painful |
| 15:15.54 | wethrin | oops |
| 15:15.59 | bilarh | toes suck... |
| 15:16.08 | bilarh | can i diy cut it off? |
| 15:16.19 | wethrin | Yes. Got an electric saw? |
| 15:16.35 | bilarh | hmm... no.. |
| 15:16.42 | bilarh | would a cpu fan work instead? |
| 15:16.44 | wethrin | Hacksaw? |
| 15:16.46 | wethrin | No |
| 15:16.49 | bilarh | :( |
| 15:16.52 | wethrin | Unless you really sharpened its blades |
| 15:16.56 | wethrin | And it's made of metal |
| 15:16.57 | bilarh | i've got a nail file |
| 15:17.04 | wethrin | That won't work |
| 15:17.09 | wethrin | You want a good clean cut |
| 15:17.13 | wethrin | It'll hurt more otherwise |
| 15:17.25 | bilarh | when you say "wont work", do you mean "will not work period" or "will work, but it will take a while?" |
| 15:17.38 | wethrin | a nail file won't work period |
| 15:17.42 | wethrin | It might just result in some bruising |
| 15:18.00 | bilarh | how about i drive over it in my car |
| 15:18.05 | bilarh | or get someone else to drive over it? |
| 15:18.52 | bilarh | i've got a stanley knife |
| 15:20.13 | bilarh | actually, it's quite funny |
| 15:20.22 | bilarh | in about 2003 or 2004 i went to spain to do some work |
| 15:20.33 | bilarh | and the day before i had taken home all my tools from work in my backpack |
| 15:21.27 | bilarh | our office toolkit consisted of a 2 foot screw driver that came with a sun blade 2000 and a mac donalds happy meal flash light (seriously) |
| 15:21.39 | wethrin | A stanley knife attached to the wheel of your car? |
| 15:21.49 | bilarh | anyway, i took all the tools out, went to the airport, through security etc and flew to spain |
| 15:22.13 | bilarh | when i got to the hotel i unpacked my bag, and at the bottom i found my box cutter :D |
| 15:22.36 | bilarh | that would have been interesting to explain to airport security :) |
| 15:22.50 | wethrin | lovely |
| 15:29.35 | Ch0Hag | I once tried to fly with my pack of screwdrivers in my carry-on luggage. |
| 15:29.58 | bilarh | did they let you on? |
| 15:29.58 | Ch0Hag | Everywhere I go, they go in my rucksack and it never occured to me to consider taking them out. |
| 15:30.07 | Ch0Hag | Not with them. I had to go back and check them in. |
| 15:30.36 | bilarh | ah right |
| 15:35.29 | Ch0Hag | Sorry. Bit of a downer at the end, that story. |
| 15:37.12 | antiphase | Last time I turned up at the passport office, I hadn't considered removing a number of offensive camping weapons from my bag, which bemused the X-ray dude somewhat |
| 15:39.58 | LeedsHK | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6291422.stm |
| 16:04.18 | bilarh | the passport office has xray machines now? |
| 16:05.05 | antiphase | They search everyone on the way in; it's basically like an airport |
| 16:06.56 | bilarh | damn |
| 16:07.03 | *** join/#gllug JohnDoe666 (n=JohnDoe6@87.194.165.104) |
| 16:14.05 | Ch0Hag | What's the variable to detect whether a perl function is called in scalar or array mode? |
| 16:15.19 | bilarh | wantarray isn't it? |
| 16:15.41 | bilarh | http://www.rocketaware.com/perl/perlfunc/wantarray.htm |
| 16:16.45 | Ch0Hag | Da cheers. |
| 16:16.50 | bilarh | np |
| 16:17.18 | Ch0Hag | Now - are HTML checkboxes tristate or just boolean? |
| 16:17.38 | wethrin | boolean, AFAIR |
| 16:18.01 | bilarh | yeah boolean |
| 16:18.04 | antiphase | How could they possibly be tri-state? |
| 16:18.07 | wethrin | shaded? |
| 16:18.08 | bilarh | how could they be tristate? either they're set or not? :) |
| 16:18.19 | bilarh | that would be controlled by the outputted html code |
| 16:18.24 | bilarh | or javascript |
| 16:18.35 | bilarh | submission of the value isn't affected |
| 16:18.39 | bilarh | submission / post |
| 16:19.04 | Ch0Hag | Some GUI widget sets have tristate checkboxes. |
| 16:19.11 | bilarh | html doesn't, afaik |
| 16:19.23 | bilarh | i'm not 100% certain, but pretty confident they are |
| 16:19.38 | Ch0Hag | Well the third state isn't that important. I'll just override it. |
| 16:21.55 | antiphase | How on a scale of 0 to 1 do you represent the third state? |
| 16:22.10 | Ch0Hag | FILE_NOT_FOUND |
| 16:28.27 | *** join/#gllug andrew__ (n=andrew@vm.black1.org.uk) |
| 16:29.30 | *** join/#gllug londo_ (n=georgiou@heppc218.hep.ph.ic.ac.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:31.25 | *** join/#gllug agk_ (i=agk@wikipedia/AGK) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:32.50 | *** join/#gllug antiphase (n=ant@2001:a88:0:fffe:240:5ff:fea5:8526) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:32.53 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
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| 16:33.48 | wethrin | har |
| 16:38.45 | Ch0Hag | Are you sure? |
| 16:39.00 | wethrin | arr |
| 16:44.01 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (i=magnus@ipv6.upcore.net) |
| 16:55.29 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:34.01 | Ch0Hag | Is there a simple "AmIRunningInTheDisgraceToAllThatIsGoodAndHolyTheWorldCallsInternetExplorer()" function in javascript? |
| 17:34.35 | wethrin | Either check your User-Agent headers |
| 17:34.41 | wethrin | Or do something horrid |
| 17:36.36 | Ch0Hag | It's just going to be a "you're using IE so you get the crappy HTML". |
| 17:38.28 | wethrin | Use User-Agent: then |
| 17:40.32 | *** join/#gllug jcook (n=jcook@83.244.128.126) |
| 17:42.29 | Ch0Hag | Is that available at run-time? |
| 17:42.29 | Ch0Hag | Render-time. |
| 17:42.29 | Ch0Hag | Or whatever HTML calls it. |
| 17:42.44 | wethrin | JavaScript should be able to do something |
| 17:43.01 | wethrin | http://www.quirksmode.org/js/detect.html |
| 17:49.34 | Ch0Hag | Oh I've found "navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase().indexOf("msie") != -1" |
| 18:19.27 | *** join/#gllug eye69 (i=magnus@ipv6.upcore.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 18:23.38 | *** join/#gllug antiphase (n=ant@2001:a88:0:fffe:240:5ff:fea5:8526) |
| 18:52.59 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 19:21.10 | morsing | clive-h! |
| 19:21.14 | morsing | wethrin! |
| 19:23.16 | clive-h | Hi morsing! |
| 20:32.59 | *** join/#gllug londo (n=georgiou@82.133.49.59) |
| 20:34.30 | morsing | londo! |
| 20:34.40 | morsing | clive-h: How are you? |
| 20:35.14 | clive-h | alive |
| 20:35.18 | clive-h | you? |
| 20:35.48 | morsing | Good thanks :) |
| 20:59.27 | morsing | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6705541.stm |
| 21:07.29 | morsing | wethrin? |
| 21:22.05 | wethrin | morsing? |
| 21:57.35 | sanelson_ | colin? |
| 22:15.42 | Ch0Hag | How do I get/use/request/whatever DHCP vendor options from dhclient? |
| 22:20.25 | sanelson_ | which? |
| 22:20.39 | sanelson_ | you want to know what options are available? |
| 22:20.45 | sanelson_ | you want to use one? |
| 22:20.52 | Ch0Hag | I know which options are available. I put them into the server. |
| 22:20.59 | Ch0Hag | I want to get them out at the other end. |
| 22:21.22 | sanelson_ | right; and you're using the ISC dhclient? |
| 22:21.42 | Ch0Hag | I have 'vendor option space <...>' in dhclient.conf, which is the only incantation which hasn't borked, but the options do not appear to be present. |
| 22:21.46 | Ch0Hag | ISC, yes. |
| 22:25.09 | *** join/#gllug sanelson (n=stephen@atalanta-systems.com) |
| 22:25.31 | sanelson | you know you can get a list of the options dhclient can see / parse with -R ? |
| 22:25.38 | sanelson | do you see the one you want to use? |
| 22:26.48 | Ch0Hag | There appears to be no -R option. |
| 22:27.01 | sanelson | hrm |
| 22:31.01 | sanelson | 12:3.0.4-10 |
| 22:31.01 | sanelson | changelog |
| 22:31.09 | sanelson | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:31.33 | Ch0Hag | Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client V3.0.4 |
| 22:31.40 | Ch0Hag | Maybe Debian is behind the times. |
| 22:31.49 | sanelson | sarge? |
| 22:31.57 | Ch0Hag | etch |
| 22:35.08 | sanelson | Version: 3.0.4-14 |
| 22:35.22 | sanelson | is what I have on my workstation, which is etch |
| 22:35.28 | sanelson | sh |
| 22:35.30 | sanelson | ah |
| 22:35.37 | sanelson | no, it's not etch |
| 22:35.44 | sanelson | 'tis tracking testing |
| 22:35.51 | Ch0Hag | Ah. |
| 22:36.05 | sanelson | you could get it from backports, or build your own backport |
| 22:36.05 | Ch0Hag | I have -13 though... |
| 22:36.15 | sanelson | that should be ok |
| 22:36.24 | sanelson | you know it's the dhclient3 package |
| 22:36.50 | Ch0Hag | dhcp3-client |
| 22:37.20 | sanelson | looks like David Cantrell is the upstream maintainer |
| 22:37.24 | sanelson | interesting |
| 22:38.14 | sanelson | anyway, bed for me; I think a suitable options line should 'just work' |
| 22:38.28 | sanelson | bye for now |
| 22:38.41 | rhowe_ | 'night Steve |
| 22:39.13 | wethrin | The real David Cantrell? |
| 22:39.42 | wethrin | rhowe_! |
| 22:40.37 | rhowe_ | Dan |
| 22:40.58 | rhowe_ | I had messages from morsing telling me to reply to emails |
| 22:41.02 | rhowe_ | But I had no emails to reply to |
| 22:41.53 | Ch0Hag | Jub done then. |
| 22:41.55 | z00dax | there are a few David Cantrell's doing the rounds these days |
| 22:41.57 | Ch0Hag | Job, too. |
| 22:44.54 | wethrin | rhowe_: How odd |
| 22:45.17 | wethrin | Presumably he's after something to do with the peak district. OR finding out what you had for lunch |
| 22:45.32 | wethrin | Maybe we should get 3 David Cantrells in for the next Gllug meeting |
| 22:55.41 | rhowe_ | wethrin: Probably |
| 22:55.46 | rhowe_ | wethrin: I see he doublebooked himself |
| 22:55.48 | rhowe_ | Smart move |
| 22:56.13 | wethrin | Yeah. I want to know if it's still on. I have a train ticket, but I don't want to book accommodation if it doesn't happen |
| 22:56.53 | rhowe_ | Well mum says you can camp in the garden if you like |
| 22:56.55 | rhowe_ | sk23 7ex |
| 22:57.25 | rhowe_ | not quite castleton, but there's the goyt valley and combs reservoir |
| 22:57.29 | rhowe_ | enough for 2 days walking |
| 22:57.40 | rhowe_ | with a base camp and kitchen |
| 22:58.42 | wethrin | nice :) |
| 22:58.50 | wethrin | Will probably try for a B&B, though |
| 22:58.53 | rhowe_ | *nod* |
| 22:59.10 | rhowe_ | Well depending on the date, I may be off touring europe anyway |
| 22:59.17 | rhowe_ | plans are the 1st 2 weeks of august |
| 22:59.18 | wethrin | 11th/12th August |
| 22:59.30 | wethrin | I have me train tickets |
| 22:59.39 | rhowe_ | might clash, unfortunately |
| 22:59.46 | wethrin | bah : |
| 22:59.48 | wethrin | :( |
| 23:00.18 | rhowe_ | Well I haven't booked the europe thing |
| 23:00.23 | rhowe_ | and the peak district's in europe |
| 23:00.27 | wethrin | True |
| 23:01.03 | wethrin | sigh. No-one's responded to my mail to gllug admin |
| 23:01.12 | *** join/#gllug clive-h (n=ch@chills.demon.co.uk) |
| 23:01.23 | wethrin | I will be at the GBBF on the Thursday, anyway |
| 23:02.09 | wethrin | right. Time to do some washing up. |
| 23:11.35 | wethrin | rar |
| 23:27.47 | Ch0Hag | Washing up? |
| 23:28.02 | Ch0Hag | Either you're very eccentric or you're not in London. |
| 23:29.06 | wethrin | Not in London |
| 23:29.12 | wethrin | Don't Londoners do the washing up? |
| 23:29.29 | Ch0Hag | I try not to. |
| 23:29.32 | Ch0Hag | Especially at midnight. |
| 23:30.02 | wethrin | It's a good a time as any |
| 23:31.41 | Ch0Hag | True. |
| 23:31.48 | Ch0Hag | Perhaps a little more odd than most though. |
| 23:33.42 | wethrin | I guess |
| 23:33.51 | wethrin | It needed to be done, though |
| 23:38.46 | Ch0Hag | We need a good flamewar on gllug. |
| 23:38.58 | Ch0Hag | People are too scared of flamewars these days. |
| 23:39.08 | Ch0Hag | They start invoking their godwins laws and all that rubbish. |
| 23:40.31 | wethrin | I can't remember when the last one was |
| 23:52.24 | rhowe_ | wethrin: "MS don't make any money from Windows"? |
| 23:52.46 | wethrin | That didn't really end up in a proper flamewar |