| 00:00.07 | z00dax | rhowe: dunno yet. soon i guess. |
| 00:00.18 | rhowe | z00dax: heh, nice and specific :P |
| 00:00.47 | z00dax | I've not seen the paperwork as yet, waiting on that - as soon as we sign something, i suppose a date will be set |
| 00:01.04 | z00dax | i have almost zero notice period where i am at the moment, so thats not an issue |
| 00:01.07 | rhowe | z00dax: cool :) |
| 00:03.13 | Leeds | apparently little cousin's school is closed... but work is open |
| 00:03.16 | Leeds | z00dax: where are you going? |
| 00:03.55 | z00dax | Leeds: to work with keithlard |
| 00:03.57 | rhowe | Leeds: z00dax got a job I was interviewed for :) |
| 00:04.12 | rhowe | Leeds: Had it been anyone else, I might've been annoyed :P |
| 00:04.13 | z00dax | that was only cause rhowe recommended me |
| 00:05.00 | eeyore | nice one |
| 00:05.08 | rhowe | z00dax: I did? :P |
| 00:07.54 | z00dax | Leeds: www.wordtracker.com |
| 00:18.16 | Leeds | hmm... |
| 00:18.36 | Leeds | shower time... |
| 00:18.50 | JAV | good night all |
| 00:19.19 | Leeds | night |
| 00:21.22 | eeyore | nn |
| 00:50.32 | Leeds | work time |
| 01:38.57 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139) |
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| 03:07.19 | Leeds | ibot convert 220 km to miles |
| 05:42.58 | murb | moin |
| 05:47.39 | Leeds | afternoon |
| 06:20.57 | Leeds | hmm... morsing is sulking? |
| 08:19.11 | *** join/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk) |
| 08:19.14 | cbz | tada |
| 08:50.22 | wethrin | morning |
| 08:54.04 | iTron | Argh it's the morning. |
| 08:54.38 | Leeds | it is, in fact, almost the evening... and a bloody windy one it is too |
| 08:55.40 | rhowe | Free delivery for a free phone with free minutes on a 12 month contract with 3 months line rental rebate for the 1st 4 quarters |
| 08:55.45 | Leeds | carphonewhorehouse? |
| 08:55.56 | rhowe | Indeed |
| 08:56.32 | Leeds | anything nice? |
| 08:56.32 | rhowe | Nokia 2600 |
| 08:56.35 | rhowe | So no, not especially |
| 08:56.55 | rhowe | Leeds: Not nice, but free :) |
| 08:57.19 | Leeds | iTron: really bad idea... it's a little one, but there's a tree down across the road... |
| 08:57.43 | iTron | Leeds: All the more interesting ;) |
| 08:57.54 | Leeds | although I did meet a cute girl (8 years old or so - not that sort of cute girl) flying a kite on Sunday - as you would all know if you read my blog |
| 08:58.10 | wethrin | Leeds: RSS feed? |
| 08:58.12 | iTron | I make it a point not to read blogs, or write a blog of my own. |
| 08:58.40 | Leeds | wethrin: yes, there is one |
| 08:58.42 | wethrin | Blogs can be nice to know what other people are up to |
| 08:58.51 | wethrin | Leeds: Fine. URL? :) |
| 08:58.57 | Leeds | wanderingjew.co.uk |
| 08:59.02 | iTron | "Woke up this morning, farted, made breakfast, realised I hadn't washed my hands before hand, farted..." , blah blah blargh. |
| 08:59.12 | murb | Leeds: stop using that domain it confuses me. |
| 08:59.22 | Leeds | murb: tell your friend to just give it up to me |
| 09:00.04 | wethrin | Roight. Leeds' blog added to my RSS list |
| 09:00.40 | Leeds | wethrin: once I work out how to get summaries in the feed, I intend to force Dean to include it - but since I tend to write long posts, I don't really want to put the whole thing in the planet |
| 09:01.05 | Leeds | or in a feed, anyway - I still want a full-text feed to be there |
| 09:01.13 | wethrin | Aye |
| 09:03.04 | Leeds | http://www.slashfilm.com/article.php/2006051700532127 - weren't digital domain the guys who famously did the water effects for Titanic on Linux? |
| 09:05.12 | rhowe | Leeds: Looks that way |
| 09:05.16 | rhowe | http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2494 |
| 09:07.49 | rhowe | Leeds: On a development kernel, no less |
| 09:09.21 | Leeds | and that was back in the days when there was such a thing as a stable kernel! :-) |
| 09:09.40 | *** join/#gllug stephanb2 (n=chatzill@64.236.9.165) |
| 09:10.22 | stephanb2 | good morning |
| 09:16.30 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (n=Tram@ti521110a080-6171.bb.online.no) |
| 09:19.23 | shai | yo |
| 09:19.36 | Leeds | evening shai |
| 09:19.48 | shai | noon |
| 09:22.44 | shai | hmm... that doesn't sound good in English... |
| 09:23.50 | Leeds | just stam? |
| 09:24.29 | shai | stam? |
| 09:24.35 | Leeds | becasue |
| 09:24.44 | shai | hehe |
| 09:24.51 | Leeds | no? |
| 09:25.08 | shai | well... i'm going to be there with Michal and my family ... |
| 09:25.17 | shai | and I'm going to go diving, too :) |
| 09:25.41 | shai | basically ... a much needed vacation ... |
| 09:26.57 | Leeds | good! |
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| 09:37.26 | JAV | good morning |
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| 11:29.24 | rhowe | Fun command of the day: xkbprint -kc -diffs -pict all -color -nkg 4 -ntg 4 :0.0 -o -| gv --antialias --orientation=seascape - |
| 11:38.40 | stephanb2 | :-o |
| 11:52.03 | Cope | afternoon |
| 11:53.36 | SlayerXP | afternoon Captain Copey |
| 12:02.57 | SlayerXP | bored. |
| 12:17.32 | *** join/#gllug Cope (n=sanelson@vm.wibbleworld.org.uk) |
| 12:20.41 | *** join/#gllug gregj (n=gj@195.225.250.35) |
| 12:28.20 | rhowe | Cope: Got much experience with HP's DL385 (their opteron version of the DL380, s'far as I can tell) |
| 12:28.23 | rhowe | Cope: ? |
| 12:28.31 | SlayerXP | rhowe: I've used those a lot |
| 12:28.37 | rhowe | SlayerXP: Like them? |
| 12:28.40 | SlayerXP | both the 1u and 2u models |
| 12:28.44 | SlayerXP | yeah, superb bits of kit |
| 12:29.13 | rhowe | Be nice to get 4 servers and some other misc. kit out of it |
| 12:29.24 | stephen | the 380s are great, but I haven't used a 385 |
| 12:29.35 | rhowe | We have two 380's here, but they're G0 or G1 |
| 12:29.41 | rhowe | (P3 Xeons) |
| 12:29.46 | SlayerXP | i don't think you'll get much chnage after the 4 servers |
| 12:29.53 | rhowe | SlayerXP: Not much, no |
| 12:29.59 | SlayerXP | if you spec them properly, you won't get 4 servers :) |
| 12:30.29 | rhowe | £1.2k for "HP ProLiant DL385 - Rack - 2-way - 1 x Opteron 2.4 GHz - RAM 1 GB - hot-swap - HD: none - CD - Gigabit Ethernet - Monitor : none - 2 U" |
| 12:30.43 | rhowe | Add £500 for 4G of RAM, plus more for an extra CPU, plus some disk.. |
| 12:30.48 | SlayerXP | dual opty 248's or betters, 4gb ram, 2 15k rpm scsi disks and a compaq smartarray card doing 0+1 with huge amounts of battery backed cache |
| 12:30.58 | rhowe | It's gonna be pushing awful close to 2.5k |
| 12:31.49 | SlayerXP | rhowe: have you bought proliant kit before? |
| 12:32.21 | rhowe | SlayerXP: Not personally, but the company has |
| 12:32.28 | rhowe | SlayerXP: All the servers are Proliants |
| 12:32.31 | SlayerXP | opening the box can be a surprise, if you don't know what to expect :) |
| 12:32.53 | rhowe | SlayerXP: heh |
| 12:33.18 | SlayerXP | you get the basic chassis on one box. then every single extra item you purchased comes in another box |
| 12:33.38 | SlayerXP | extra processor, +1 box. extra memory, + at least 1 box. |
| 12:33.55 | rhowe | SlayerXP: With much packaged air |
| 12:33.55 | SlayerXP | each hard drive comes in a box |
| 12:34.06 | rhowe | SlayerXP: Oh we've had plenty of drives come in |
| 12:34.28 | SlayerXP | i like building hp kit |
| 12:34.53 | SlayerXP | well, i like building proliant kit |
| 12:35.40 | SlayerXP | i've done an awful lot of building over the years. |
| 12:36.05 | z00dax | isnt that what used to be compaq's product line |
| 12:36.06 | rhowe | SlayerXP: Do the 385s use USB for keyboard & mouse, or are they still PS/2? |
| 12:36.10 | z00dax | I hate hp kit |
| 12:36.12 | rhowe | z00dax: Yeah |
| 12:36.20 | SlayerXP | rhowe: ps/2 plus ILO ports |
| 12:36.23 | z00dax | compaq's product lines are still pretty good |
| 12:36.44 | rhowe | SlayerXP: s'good - our KVM predates USB :) |
| 12:36.49 | SlayerXP | given that compaq is wholly owned by HP... |
| 12:36.56 | rhowe | z00dax: Compaq don't really exists as such now :) |
| 12:37.06 | z00dax | SlayerXP: yeah, unfortunate |
| 12:37.17 | rhowe | z00dax: Compaq Proliant is now HP Proliantr |
| 12:37.36 | z00dax | rhowe: yes, has been for a few years, unfortunate none the less |
| 12:38.57 | rhowe | I take it Dell are still Intel-only? |
| 12:39.23 | z00dax | on their site yes. talk to you account manager if you want opteron kit - they have very very limited opteron's though |
| 12:39.27 | z00dax | there's always sun |
| 12:40.03 | rhowe | Hm, so it'll be a tossup between HP, IBM, Sun and perhaps Fujitsu |
| 12:40.32 | stephanb2 | do IBm still manufacture antything? i thought it was all Lenovo by now? |
| 12:40.54 | z00dax | stephanb2: that was only the IBM personal computer company |
| 12:41.02 | rhowe | stephanb2: I think Lenovo took their consumer PC/laptop stuff. IBM still do the server kit, AFAIK |
| 12:41.12 | z00dax | IBM is various different companies.... |
| 12:49.42 | stephanb2 | oic |
| 12:50.11 | stephanb2 | well all the machines i have seen are Sun's used for transmission |
| 12:50.34 | stephanb2 | and an HP Proliant (not rackmounted) used as a graphics workstation |
| 12:51.07 | stephanb2 | the last was very fast at rendering but way too noisy machine to sit under a desk |
| 12:52.00 | SlayerXP | HP never a problem supplying me with opteron kit |
| 12:53.05 | SlayerXP | oh, you mean dell |
| 12:53.07 | SlayerXP | with you |
| 12:53.47 | rhowe | hm, pretty cheap, but then again it's SATA, not SCSI. http://uk.insight.com/apps/productpresentation/index.php?product_id=FJSIARX221 |
| 12:54.06 | rhowe | £870 for a dual Opteron 246 |
| 12:54.11 | z00dax | rhowe: get enough spindles clocking for you - and sata-2's are not that bad |
| 12:54.33 | rhowe | z00dax: Plus a few on the shelf for when things start to die - I know the drill :P |
| 13:02.40 | Cope | rhowe: sorry, yes |
| 13:02.43 | Cope | rhowe: lots |
| 13:03.00 | Cope | rhowe: lovely machines |
| 13:05.16 | stephanb2 | i bought my first machine from those dudes www.dnuk.com |
| 13:05.40 | *** join/#gllug julian (n=julian@193.252.16.47) |
| 13:06.38 | SlayerXP | dnuk were great, but don't like me anymore |
| 13:07.01 | SlayerXP | i bought a server from them, and they delivered stuff i specifically asked not to have |
| 13:07.04 | SlayerXP | like realtik, and sis |
| 13:07.06 | SlayerXP | & |
| 13:16.58 | JAV | what's wrong with realtek? |
| 13:26.22 | z00dax | low to middle level workloads realtek tend to be ok, usable |
| 13:26.41 | z00dax | rtl dont like loads :) well, 8129's were ok - nothing after that anyway |
| 13:30.17 | antiphase | 8169s are particularly CPU-hungry |
| 13:30.55 | z00dax | do the 8169's do JF's ? |
| 13:31.07 | rhowe | Cope: np - I wasn't after instant response :) |
| 13:32.28 | antiphase | z00dax: They do as far as I know. It helped when I was fiddling with one, it didn't stop it chewing massive amounts of CPU time when only pushing 200Mbps |
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| 13:35.09 | Cope | so with ulimit and pam I can restrict resoruces, but not visibility of processes |
| 13:36.03 | *** join/#gllug Kristian (n=kristian@80-41-169-168.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 13:47.47 | stephanb2 | where do i find a mobo+cpu to build a fanless diskless linux box (home router) ? do i buy a mini-itx VIA stuff? or is it much cheaper to build around a CeleronM? |
| 13:48.54 | z00dax | depends on the amount of traffic you are looking to route |
| 13:49.14 | z00dax | you might be better off buying a used laptop off ebay or something |
| 13:50.27 | stephanb2 | z00dax: only for home use. for the moment it's very speculative. it's to put gnugk on it |
| 13:50.43 | stephanb2 | z00dax: not sure about the idea of leaving a laptop switched on 24/7 |
| 13:51.27 | z00dax | not to tempt fate. but my compaq presario has > 400 days uptime |
| 13:51.38 | z00dax | its a k6-2 550Mhz with 128 megs of ram and a 4 gig hdd |
| 13:53.03 | z00dax | i suppose CF Card and Adapter are cheap these days, just use one of those - in a cheap itx setup... |
| 14:01.10 | rhowe | You can even get flash units with an IDE interface |
| 14:01.20 | rhowe | You plug them into the motherboard's IDE socket |
| 14:01.58 | rhowe | stephanb2: I'd use a Soekris for that, but they're not exactly cheap :) |
| 14:02.45 | Cope | hmm... can I prevent an unpriv'd user from "seeing" proc? |
| 14:02.56 | Cope | eg user nelson tries: |
| 14:03.04 | Cope | cat /proc/4017/cmdline |
| 14:03.09 | Cope | and is told to piss off |
| 14:03.19 | rhowe | Cope: I think things might break if you do that |
| 14:03.33 | rhowe | Cope: There are a fair few programs and libraries which rely on /proc for operation |
| 14:03.43 | Cope | yes |
| 14:03.48 | rhowe | Cope: Leeds will be able to tell you all about that (having had to emulate /proc on Solaris) |
| 14:03.51 | stephanb2 | rhowe: hmm ive seen a lot of "cute" mini-itx boards... but way too expensive. |
| 14:04.05 | rhowe | Cope: I think glibc uses proc, for example |
| 14:04.17 | rhowe | stephanb2: If you want to borrow a Soekris from me for playing around with, you're most welcome |
| 14:04.52 | rhowe | stephanb2: I have one of these sitting unused at the moment - http://www.soekris.com/net4501.htm |
| 14:05.17 | stephanb2 | rhowe: thanks 4 the offer, but this is a home/hobby project. so secondhand market or dirt-cheap hw might b better |
| 14:05.41 | rhowe | stephanb2: It's not dirt cheap, but they're not obscenely expensive |
| 14:06.03 | rhowe | ibot change 177 usd to gbp |
| 14:06.15 | rhowe | stephanb2: £100 or so for a 486 :) |
| 14:06.52 | z00dax | rhowe: cf-adapted = ide adapter :) |
| 14:07.39 | stephanb2 | rhowe: i might be able to build a diskless celeron-m box for that. and then the mobo will have usb |
| 14:08.07 | rhowe | stephanb2: Sure, but it'll be bigger and consume more power, and it won't have serial BIOS :) |
| 14:09.02 | stephanb2 | rhowe: wouldn't i b better off with mini-itx VIA C3 kit ? |
| 14:09.13 | rhowe | stephanb2: It'll be more flexible |
| 14:09.27 | rhowe | stephanb2: 133MHz/64M can be limiting |
| 14:10.09 | stephanb2 | rhowe: yeah i would struggle. i want to run gnugk on it. |
| 14:10.21 | z00dax | is the new i686 compatible stuff still called C3 ? |
| 14:10.39 | stephanb2 | z00dax: no that's probably the C7 |
| 14:11.30 | z00dax | i'd get atleast that |
| 14:11.52 | z00dax | its not uncommon to run into non i586 supported code these days |
| 14:16.26 | stephanb2 | probably much simpler is Sempron 2800 mobo bundle 256MB ram £113 from novatech |
| 14:22.54 | Cope | ok... |
| 14:23.04 | Cope | how many ways are there to see what users are on a system? |
| 14:23.12 | Cope | apart from looking at process tree |
| 14:23.20 | Cope | and getting uid from /proc |
| 14:23.30 | Cope | let's assume we can't read /etc/passwd |
| 14:23.35 | Cope | so uid is meaningless |
| 14:23.47 | Cope | suppose we don't have access to 'w' |
| 14:24.03 | wethrin | On how many systems is /etc/passwd not readable? |
| 14:24.27 | Cope | wethrin: whichever ones whose permissions you have tightened |
| 14:25.00 | wethrin | Assuming you have shadow passwords turned on, is there much benefit to making /etc/passwd only root-readable? |
| 14:25.27 | Cope | only to satisfy the (silly) demands of $client |
| 14:25.48 | Cope | basically we don't want "o2" to know that "vodafone" are on the same system |
| 14:26.15 | Cope | cbz: the secret's out! |
| 14:26.26 | cbz | 'id' |
| 14:26.35 | Cope | 'ego' |
| 14:26.41 | cbz | The command. |
| 14:26.52 | Cope | cbz: i know what you meant |
| 14:26.53 | Cope | :) |
| 14:27.03 | wethrin | Cope: Solaris Zones much use for your task in hand? |
| 14:27.21 | cbz | groups too - if you want to shutdown on guessing names |
| 14:27.57 | Cope | wethrin: would have been perfect |
| 14:28.18 | wethrin | Aha. Zones do rock, then. |
| 14:28.24 | cbz | basically anything that access wtmp and utmp |
| 14:28.28 | wethrin | But you're running Linux? |
| 14:28.38 | wethrin | Wouldn't it be less administrative hassle to just throw a second machine in? |
| 14:29.08 | Cope | wethrin: well, no, as we have 7 load balanced app servers, and 5 proxy servers |
| 14:29.16 | Cope | so it would be adding another 12 |
| 14:29.21 | wethrin | Ewww |
| 14:29.26 | wethrin | Well, not ewww, really |
| 14:29.28 | wethrin | Ow |
| 14:29.59 | iTron | Cope: Xen virtual machines running on the same box then perhaps? |
| 14:30.25 | Cope | iTron: would be perfect; but declined primarily because of webogic licence costs |
| 14:30.36 | cbz | logic? |
| 14:30.47 | iTron | Weblogic? wossatthen? *googles* |
| 14:30.54 | wethrin | Turn off utmp/wtmp logging? |
| 14:31.12 | Cope | iTron: bea java servlet container |
| 14:31.16 | Cope | iTron: v.expensive |
| 14:31.51 | cbz | less expensive than other things |
| 14:32.06 | Cope | cbz: true |
| 14:32.24 | iTron | Cope: Doesn't the SELinux stuff do anything security-wise with /proc ? |
| 14:32.30 | rhowe | Cope: All the other options are crude hacks which mostly work, but which won't really give you much of a security assurance |
| 14:32.47 | rhowe | Cope: You could look at AppArmour - that might at least do something to help |
| 14:33.49 | rhowe | Cope: You might still be able to see other processes, though |
| 14:33.58 | iTron | "The Security-enhanced Linux's new features are designed to enforce the separation of information based on confidentiality and integrity requirements. They are designed for preventing processes from reading data and programs, tampering with data and programs, bypassing application security mechanisms, executing untrustworthy programs, or interfering with other processes in violation of the system security policy." |
| 14:35.04 | rhowe | Cope: Install a rootkit - that'll let you hide processes :) |
| 14:35.19 | cbz | haha |
| 14:35.54 | rhowe | Cope: LIDS might let you do it |
| 14:36.13 | rhowe | "CAP_HIDDEN is another LIDS-specific capability that is useful for hiding processes. Any program that is given the CAP_HIDDEN capability will not be visible in /proc (and thus not available to ps, top, and friends) at all." |
| 14:36.29 | rhowe | "This is not a 100% sure way of hiding processes, however. If you hide sshd, for example, folks will still be able to use 'netstat -na' and see that something is listening on port 22. A user could attempt to send a signal to each process ID from 1-65535 and determine that a hidden process existed when the signal was rejected or sent but no /proc entry exists for it. Or it could be discovered if it logs its PID to /var/log/NAME.pid." |
| 14:37.40 | rhowe | Cope: It wouldn't take long to probe the 16 bit PID space to find running PIDs |
| 14:38.15 | rhowe | Cope: A friend used to work for a virtual server hosting company. They used vsd which has been opensourced and forked as freevsd |
| 14:38.31 | cbz | Or indeed just guess usernames with sometool that takes it as inpiut |
| 14:38.49 | rhowe | Cope: Also look at the vserver stuff |
| 14:38.58 | rhowe | http://unicast.org/blog/729 |
| 14:39.32 | rhowe | Cope: Who says the Linux world is a fragmented mess? :) |
| 14:40.08 | rhowe | "Conceptually Linux-VServer is similar to the OpenSolaris "Containers" (formerly called "Zones")." |
| 14:40.21 | rhowe | Cope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-VServer |
| 14:40.59 | rhowe | Disadvantages: Some system calls [...] remain unimplemented or unvirtualised. This can prevent some Linux distributions (notably, Gentoo) from booting properly inside a vserver without modifications. |
| 14:41.04 | rhowe | This is a disadvantage? :) |
| 14:41.39 | iTron | Cope: The OpenWall project has a restircted /proc patch, but it seems only for a limited number of 2.0 and 2.4 kernels. |
| 14:41.51 | cbz | send patch! ;) |
| 14:41.56 | iTron | "This option restricts the permissions on /proc so that non-root users can see their own processes only, and nothing about active network connections, unless they're in a special group. This group's id is specified via the gid= mount option, and is 0 by default. (Note: if you're using identd, you will need to edit the inetd.conf line to run identd as this special group.) Also, this disables dmesg(8) for the users. You might want to use this on an ISP shell |
| 14:42.34 | iTron | Sounds about ideal, but again only for 2.0 and 2.4, judging by the openwall web page. |
| 14:43.19 | rhowe | Cope: I think lvs (linux-vserver) is in the mainline kernel these days, although maybe only part of it |
| 14:45.08 | iTron | rhowe: http://www.eth0.us/2.6.10-grsecurity |
| 14:45.28 | iTron | "-- -- -- -- Restrict /proc to user only -Enable" |
| 14:47.45 | iTron | http://www.grsecurity.net/features.php |
| 14:48.06 | iTron | "Chroot restrictions" ... "No viewing of any process outside of chroot, even if /proc is mounted" |
| 14:48.33 | z00dax | iirc, cope has a 2.4.21 kernel restriction to work with |
| 14:49.29 | iTron | OpenWall has pacthes for : 2.4.30,31,and 32 |
| 14:49.36 | iTron | patches even. |
| 14:50.19 | iTron | Oh, and .21 |
| 14:50.32 | iTron | ftp://ftp.openwall.com/pub/patches/linux/v2.4/historical/linux-2.4.21-ow1.tar.gz |
| 14:53.00 | iTron | Although personally I'd be inclined to go for later kernels, as it looks like there are several vulnerabilities in 2.4.21 and higher which subsequent OpenWall patches fix. |
| 15:04.14 | Cope | openwall eh? |
| 15:07.22 | iTron | Looks like currently your best bet, in my opinion. |
| 15:09.20 | rhowe | Cope: If you're working with RHEL, what do RedHat suggest you do? |
| 15:09.29 | rhowe | Cope: upgrade? :) |
| 15:11.37 | Cope | it's a good question |
| 15:11.59 | Cope | i imagine they'd say use dedicatde machines :) |
| 15:12.20 | Cope | anywa - nearly hometime, but some of that stuff looks interesting; will research |
| 15:12.38 | rhowe | Cope: heh. I think vserver is the canonical method, but whether it works well or at all in 2.4, I dunno |
| 15:12.59 | Cope | rhowe: it is still virtualisation though, no? |
| 15:13.08 | Cope | and would require separate weblogic licenses |
| 15:13.17 | Cope | and a complete rebuild |
| 15:13.37 | rhowe | Cope: I think you'll have to run two separate instances of weblogic regardless of what you do |
| 15:13.47 | rhowe | Cope: Presumably that will count as a separate license? |
| 15:14.03 | Cope | no... |
| 15:14.18 | Cope | you can have multiple instances, and one installation |
| 15:14.32 | Cope | if, eg, you had xen instamces, you now need multiple installations |
| 15:14.37 | Cope | each with a sep licence |
| 15:14.47 | rhowe | Cope: Hm.. OK.. well I guess it comes down to what Weblogic's license determines to be an "installation" |
| 15:14.51 | Cope | yeah |
| 15:15.00 | rhowe | Cope: I'd argue that you could have an "installation" spanning a whole cluster of machines |
| 15:15.21 | Cope | for this purpose there is a cluster licence |
| 15:15.21 | Cope | :) |
| 15:15.43 | rhowe | Cope: Does weblogic still take a dual core CPU as requiring two CPU licenses? |
| 15:16.43 | rhowe | Cope: I see reference to a "Production license" which "are usually limited to a specific IP address" |
| 15:16.54 | Cope | i'd need to check |
| 15:16.58 | Cope | homeish time now |
| 15:17.16 | rhowe | Cope: The people who can tell you for sure are BEA, but I suspect they'll do anything they can to get you to buy a second license :) |
| 15:18.31 | Cope | indeed |
| 15:18.33 | Cope | byeee |
| 15:19.11 | rhowe | Cope: Safe trip home & all that |
| 15:19.28 | iTron | laters |
| 16:23.17 | *** part/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk) |
| 16:47.42 | stephanb2 | k time 2 go home |
| 16:47.58 | stephanb2 | bye everybody |
| 16:53.06 | *** join/#gllug jhawtin_ (n=jhawtin@ppp200-28.lns1.adl4.internode.on.net) |
| 17:01.46 | *** join/#gllug eyore (n=eeyore@84-43-28-203.ppp.onetel.net.uk) |
| 17:04.00 | *** join/#gllug JAV (n=JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:07.43 | *** join/#gllug angelchild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 18:30.22 | Cope | relo |
| 18:31.26 | angelchild | HI COPE |
| 18:31.33 | angelchild | guess what guess what guess what :D |
| 18:32.35 | wethrin | Hello |
| 18:32.51 | Cope | JessyJess: what what what! |
| 18:32.52 | JessyJess | motorola have offered me the summer intenship =) |
| 18:32.55 | wethrin | Yay! |
| 18:32.56 | Cope | superb |
| 18:33.09 | wethrin | Where will you be working? |
| 18:33.13 | JessyJess | Basingstoke |
| 18:33.17 | wethrin | Eww |
| 18:33.18 | wethrin | I'm sorry |
| 18:33.22 | JessyJess | pfft, why? |
| 18:33.31 | wethrin | Basingstoke! |
| 18:33.40 | JessyJess | i can commute from soton |
| 18:33.51 | JessyJess | =) |
| 18:33.55 | wethrin | heh |
| 18:34.03 | Cope | JessyJess: if/when i get my new job, you'll be 2 mins away from me |
| 18:34.14 | JessyJess | Cope: what you applying for? :) |
| 18:34.17 | *** join/#gllug jackds (n=jackds@82-43-54-8.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:34.36 | Cope | JessyJess: already been offered the job; just security clearance formality, which is v.slow |
| 18:34.46 | JessyJess | ah |
| 18:34.48 | JessyJess | but what job? :) |
| 18:36.05 | Cope | sr unix admin / junior dba |
| 18:36.47 | wethrin | Cope: Then you can leave the horrible mess behind? |
| 18:36.48 | JessyJess | oh right :) |
| 18:36.55 | Cope | wethrin: yes indeed |
| 18:36.58 | JessyJess | who for? |
| 18:37.00 | wethrin | Heh |
| 18:37.02 | Cope | wethrin: and do aix! |
| 18:37.02 | JessyJess | (horrible mess? :o) |
| 18:37.07 | wethrin | Shove it in their face. "Not my problem" |
| 18:37.15 | Cope | wethrin: unprofessional |
| 18:37.24 | wethrin | Cope: You'll turn into morsing :) |
| 18:37.28 | wethrin | JessyJess: RTFML :) |
| 18:37.39 | Cope | wethrin: i will work my mammary glands off until I leave |
| 18:38.11 | wethrin | Cope: But the problem is caused by unreasonable constraints |
| 18:38.39 | Cope | wethrin: unreasonable? maybe; but very realistic in the evil real world. |
| 18:38.46 | JessyJess | wethrin: but, but.... |
| 18:38.59 | wethrin | Cope: I suggest you quote John Hearns' message at them :) |
| 18:39.14 | JessyJess | :ED |
| 18:39.15 | JessyJess | oops |
| 18:39.16 | Cope | wethrin: yes, that was rather good |
| 18:39.16 | JessyJess | :D |
| 18:39.25 | JessyJess | it's because there's a MattyMatt in #allegro |
| 18:39.44 | Cope | there is an irc channel dedicated to a shit old car? |
| 18:40.05 | Cope | oh wait - it is shit and old, i suppose it could be accorded cult status |
| 18:40.09 | wethrin | Management should realise that some things are not possible within certain constraints |
| 18:40.22 | Cope | wethrin: brick wall; head; bang. |
| 18:40.30 | boudiccas | like daylight at the end of the tunnel? :) |
| 18:40.56 | JessyJess | it's not an old car, it's a games routine library :P |
| 18:41.03 | JessyJess | well |
| 18:41.15 | JessyJess | I mean it is an old car, but that's not the allegro the channel's about :P |
| 18:41.22 | Cope | ah |
| 18:41.32 | Cope | so it isn't as cool as a channel dedicated to an old car |
| 18:41.45 | wethrin | Cope: You'll jus thave to educate them about the phrase "not possible" :) |
| 18:42.07 | Cope | wethrin: hehe; it is frustrating. |
| 18:42.16 | JessyJess | pfft |
| 20:36.05 | *** join/#gllug George (i=authdeni@vm.gwright.org.uk) |
| 20:36.18 | wethrin | George! |
| 20:36.39 | George | what? |
| 20:37.26 | wethrin | Bah |
| 20:37.37 | wethrin | shouldn't you be revising, or something? |
| 20:38.13 | George | ... |
| 20:48.43 | *** join/#gllug puckman (n=gerard@dyn-62-56-68-155.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 21:16.24 | *** join/#gllug puckman_afk (n=gerard@dyn-62-56-68-155.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 21:28.37 | *** join/#gllug puckman_sleeping (n=gerard@dyn-62-56-68-155.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 21:33.47 | *** join/#gllug z00-mobile (n=kbs@212.183.128.185) |
| 21:36.18 | z00-mobile | Hello |
| 21:36.39 | wethrin | whatho |
| 21:37.07 | z00-mobile | neone see the game? |
| 21:37.16 | George | GAME? |
| 21:37.35 | z00-mobile | wethrin! |
| 21:37.42 | wethrin | hello! |
| 21:37.51 | z00-mobile | a George too! |
| 21:38.11 | George | ... |
| 21:39.12 | z00-mobile | The courier company tried to deliver my new phone |
| 21:39.32 | z00-mobile | Obviously I was not home |
| 21:39.41 | George | what phone? |
| 21:39.53 | George | I'm getting my new stablising equipment on friday |
| 21:39.57 | George | and then the rest of my bow on saturday |
| 21:40.07 | z00-mobile | they want me to drive out to Maidstone to get it now |
| 21:40.40 | wethrin | z00-mobile: Did you laugh at them? |
| 21:41.18 | z00-mobile | Do they really think I will drive 60 miles in the wrong direction to get it? |
| 21:41.31 | George | WHAT PHONE? |
| 21:41.45 | z00-mobile | SE W810i |
| 21:41.50 | George | ah |
| 21:42.00 | George | T-Mobile are lying bsatards |
| 21:42.12 | z00-mobile | Sue them |
| 21:42.37 | SlayerXP | i assumed george was never coming back. |
| 21:43.53 | z00-mobile | He did a Return of the mack routine - aka MarkM style - & poped right back |
| 21:53.25 | rhowe | You know, Crazy Frog has ruined this film |
| 21:55.20 | *** join/#gllug z00-mobile (n=kbs@212.183.128.185) |
| 21:58.53 | iTron | rhowe: Just spent the best $23.95 on Windows software, EVAR. |
| 21:59.18 | iTron | rhowe: CDRoller - has just recovered the VOB's on those fucked up DVD's I told you about. |
| 21:59.20 | rhowe | iTron: They charge for loadlin now? |
| 21:59.32 | George | rhowe: that's DOS |
| 21:59.43 | rhowe | George: It could've been enhanced :P |
| 21:59.51 | iTron | rhowe: Shush now. |
| 22:00.44 | George | (yes, I actually have my passport in my hand) |
| 22:00.45 | rhowe | iTron: Was it just hidden sessions, or something more serious? |
| 22:00.49 | wethrin | :) |
| 22:00.56 | George | I got it brought up to school today |
| 22:00.57 | rhowe | iTron: You can access alternative sessions in Windows without any extra software, IIRC |
| 22:01.38 | George | to prove to harrow that I'm george wright so they can pay me |
| 22:01.58 | iTron | rhowe: Something more serious. Seems that if you place an unfinalised DVD (created y my set top DVD recorder) into a Windows machine, it /does/ /something/ to the DVD's TOC, whic subsequently fucks up the DVD, even if all you have done is place the DVD into the Windows PC'd DVD drive. |
| 22:03.07 | rhowe | iTron: Couldn't it just be initialising a new session? |
| 22:03.14 | iTron | rhowe: It wasn't sessions. The VOB data is stored in track 2 of the DVD disk. I don't know exactly what Windows does to the disk, but it fucks it up royally and neither a Windows machine, linux machine, or the set top box accept that anything is on the DVD. |
| 22:03.49 | iTron | rhowe: I see no talk of sessions on the software I'm using. Unless it calls a session a track, which I doubt is the case. |
| 22:04.39 | iTron | rhowe: I spent a good deal of time googling to find out if there was any way of recovering the data from the DVD from either Windows or linux. i came up with nothing, except this software I just bought and used. |
| 22:05.46 | iTron | A few months ago I tried to recover via Linux another DVD that got fubared in a similar manner, and that failed miserably too. |
| 22:06.47 | iTron | Wonder if I can find the Doctor Who recording that got fubared. I have a sneaky suspicion I tossed that DVD in the bin in frustration. |
| 22:07.51 | rhowe | iTron: Hm.. I'm hardly an expert on iso9606 or UDF |
| 22:34.58 | wethrin | ~change 1 CAD to USD |
| 22:35.10 | George | DIE |
| 22:35.38 | wethrin | what? |
| 22:35.52 | George | sorry, I'm a gun nut |
| 22:35.58 | George | and an archery nut |
| 22:36.03 | George | in fact, I'm a projectile sports nut |
| 22:36.21 | wethrin | You're Eric Raymond? |
| 22:36.41 | George | I'm trying to get into the GB squad |
| 22:37.02 | wethrin | :) |
| 22:37.35 | wethrin | I take it you'll join the apropriate clubs at University? |
| 22:39.18 | George | archery, yes |
| 22:39.22 | George | shooting, depends how much money I have |
| 22:39.27 | George | if I have to pay for ammo they can sod off |
| 22:39.34 | George | I'm not paying 7.50 GBP for 10 rounds |
| 22:39.56 | wethrin | Bah. That's what student loans are for! |
| 22:40.03 | George | student loans for ammunition? |
| 22:40.09 | George | my god, the government would have a field day |
| 22:40.13 | wethrin | Why not? :) |
| 22:42.05 | George | dolt. |
| 22:42.11 | George | I'm spending 800 quid on saturday :( |
| 22:42.11 | wethrin | oi |
| 22:42.20 | wethrin | on new archery gear? |
| 22:42.22 | George | yes |
| 22:42.36 | wethrin | If it's worthwhile for you... |
| 22:42.38 | George | I'd like to get into the GB team for that too :) |
| 22:44.39 | rhowe | # lilo; grub |
| 22:44.39 | rhowe | -sh: lilo: not found |
| 22:44.40 | rhowe | -sh: grub: not found |
| 22:44.46 | George | rofl |
| 22:44.47 | wethrin | apt-get install lilo |
| 22:44.47 | rhowe | mm, everyone loves embedded systems |
| 22:44.48 | wethrin | :) |
| 22:44.56 | George | I love my ThinkPad |
| 22:45.00 | rhowe | E: Couldn't find package lilo |
| 22:45.05 | rhowe | wethrin: I haven't built it :) |
| 22:45.22 | wethrin | :) |
| 22:45.34 | rhowe | Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 22:45.34 | rhowe | /dev/hdb2 8.5M 8.4M 166.0k 98% / |
| 22:45.34 | rhowe | tmpfs 62.0M 0 62.0M 0% /dev/shm |
| 22:45.36 | rhowe | /dev/hdb1 8.5M 8.4M 166.0k 98% /boot |
| 22:45.45 | rhowe | Not too shabby for a Debian box, though :) |
| 22:46.15 | rhowe | heh, it's a bit confused |
| 22:46.26 | rhowe | Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 22:46.26 | rhowe | /dev/hdb2 8.5M 8.4M 166.0k 98% / |
| 22:46.26 | rhowe | tmpfs 62.0M 0 62.0M 0% /dev/shm |
| 22:46.27 | rhowe | /dev/hdb1 9.4M 1.8M 7.6M 19% /boot |
| 22:46.30 | rhowe | s'a bit better |
| 22:50.25 | rhowe | George: Ah yes, they have a medical research centre there where they do animal testing, don't they? |
| 22:51.04 | George | actually |
| 22:51.06 | George | I'm going shooting |