irclog2html for #gllug on 20060429

`00:05.13`	`gregj`	`Leeds: Richard`
`00:06.16`	`gregj`	`does anyone here know how can I find out whether directory is empty or not and use it in if statement`
`00:16.34`	`Leeds`	`gregj: good morning`
`00:19.44`	`stephen`	gregj: `find . -maxdepth 1 \| wc -l` -ge 2 # should do the trick, apologies that I can't think up something more elegant
`00:19.53`	`Leeds`	`gregj: if [ "xx" = "x$(ls $testdir)x" ] ; then echo foo ; fi`
`00:20.14`	`Kitty`	`any squid experts about`
`00:21.30`	`Leeds`	`sorry, make that "x$(ls -A $testdir)x" - and it will/might fail if there are spaces in $testdir`
`00:23.07`	`Leeds`	`if [ "xx" = "x$(ls -A "$testdir")x" ] ; then echo foo ; fi`
`00:23.44`	`Leeds`	`gregj: hello?`
`00:24.52`	`rhowe`	`http://www.kfwebs.net/articles/article/37/An-analysis-of-the-COM-Top-Level-Domain`
`00:34.56`	`gregj`	`:>`
`00:37.15`	`gregj`	`Leeds: okay, makes sens`
`00:37.37`	`gregj`	`if xx == xx than the dir is empty :D`
`00:37.51`	`rhowe`	`CONTENTS=($DIR/*) ;[ ${#CONTENTS[@]} -eq 1 ] && [ \! -f "${CONTENTS[0]}" ] && echo "$DIR is empty"`
`00:38.03`	`rhowe`	`But, not really safe if $DIR contains spaces`
`00:38.40`	`Leeds`	`rhowe: ls -A "$DIR" does that job pretty safely`
`00:39.14`	`rhowe`	`CONTENTS=("$DIR"/*) ;[ ${#CONTENTS[@]} -eq 1 ] && [ \! -f "${CONTENTS[0]}" ] && echo "$DIR is empty"`
`00:39.19`	`gregj`	`should I say "on the manual page" or "in the manual page(s) "`
`00:39.42`	`gregj`	`rhowe: well, Richard's last version was very neat and nice`
`00:39.48`	`Leeds`	`gregj: uh, more context?`
`00:39.52`	`rhowe`	`gregj: Sure, and mine is totally bash-specific :)`
`00:40.15`	`gregj`	`I wasn't just sure if there is any hyphen option for that - perhaps`
`00:40.19`	`gregj`	`like -f -d ..`
`00:40.35`	`gregj`	`Leeds: like asking: "was it on/in the man page"`
`00:40.41`	`Leeds`	`rhowe: also, you're not catching .files`
`00:40.45`	`gregj`	`with question mark at the end of coz`
`00:40.47`	`rhowe`	`Leeds: True`
`00:41.03`	`Leeds`	`gregj: in that context, in rather than on`
`00:41.20`	`gregj`	`ok`
`00:41.31`	`Leeds`	`I would only use on in that sort of context if I was talking about a piece of paper`
`00:41.53`	`Leeds`	`and even then, only in the sense of "how could you miss it - it's right there on the manual page"`
`00:42.14`	`gregj`	`okay, my instinct was right - in this case`
`00:43.14`	`Leeds`	`hmm... breakfast time`
`00:43.45`	`rhowe`	`Leeds: Could always set 'dotglob' apparently`
`00:44.54`	`Leeds`	`could do - better to just make it explicit within the test`
`00:47.41`	`Erwin`	`Christ, the Family Guy S4 DVDs have a 2-minute anti-piracy unskippable intro`
`00:48.07`	`Leeds`	`Erwin: which is why you should use something nicely illegal like mplayer to watch them`
`01:35.05`	`rhowe`	`ibot change 35 gbp to usd`
`01:40.22`	`Leeds`	`damn, the $ is worthless...`
`01:40.54`	`Leeds`	`ibot change 1 gbp to hkd`
`01:41.18`	`Leeds`	`so is that one!`
`01:43.42`	`rhowe`	`heh`
`01:43.49`	`rhowe`	`ibot change 1 hkd to cny`
`02:17.28`	`rhowe`	`heh, gotta love documentation which has things like this:`
`02:17.29`	`rhowe`	`infinity number`
`02:17.29`	`rhowe`	`selects the value of infinity, default is 16`
`02:26.56`	`*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com)`
`02:27.09`	`*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com)`
`03:26.05`	`*** join/#gllug z00dax (n=kbsingh@base.karan.org)`
`03:29.55`	`rhowe`	`?`
`03:30.25`	`Leeds`	`?`
`03:30.52`	`rhowe`	`hm, ex girlfriend now has a job selling earphones`
`03:31.07`	`Leeds`	`which one?`
`03:31.12`	`rhowe`	`Xiaoping`
`03:31.22`	`rhowe`	`Coco's friend`
`03:31.24`	`Leeds`	`ah`
`03:31.52`	`z00dax`	`radsl sux`
`03:31.58`	`Leeds`	`why are you guys awake?`
`03:32.22`	`z00dax`	`my modem decided it didnt want to train at anything more than 128kb/sec either way`
`03:32.33`	`z00dax`	`Leeds: i was trying to get online`
`03:33.41`	`Leeds`	`z00dax: now is downtime`
`06:12.47`	`morsing`	`ibot wake Cope`
`06:12.48`	`ibot`	`Cope: GOOD MORNING!!!`
`06:50.40`	`morsing`	`ANyone here?`
`07:01.39`	`mozrat`	`no`
`07:01.43`	`mozrat`	`I am not here`
`07:01.48`	`mozrat`	`I don't even exist`
`07:01.58`	`mozrat`	`I am but a figment of your imagination`
`07:13.41`	`morsing`	`Moo`
`07:13.44`	`morsing`	`Coffee?`
`07:17.29`	`morsing`	`~seen cope`
`07:17.35`	`ibot`	`cope is currently on #debian (1d 23h 26m 20s). Has said a total of 11 messages. Is idling for 1d 17h 14m 52s, last said: ':)'.`
`07:17.42`	`morsing`	`~seen floo`
`07:17.44`	`ibot`	`floo <n=gary@host-84-9-83-158.bulldogdsl.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 66d 22h 1m 50s ago, saying: 'how's it oging?'.`
`07:18.03`	`mozrat`	`Coffee - yes please Henrik`
`07:18.13`	`morsing`	`Here ya go - and some toast as well`
`07:18.23`	`mozrat`	`Mmmm`
`07:18.27`	`mozrat`	`thanks`
`07:18.29`	`morsing`	`I`
`07:18.35`	`mozrat`	`J`
`07:18.45`	`morsing`	`'m picking up my new phone today :)`
`07:18.54`	`mozrat`	`cool`
`07:19.13`	`morsing`	`First time in years I've had my own phone`
`07:25.03`	`mozrat`	`I haven't had one for ages either`
`07:47.58`	`*** join/#gllug George (i=authdeni@vm.gwright.org.uk)`
`07:57.28`	`morsing`	`George!`
`07:58.11`	`George`	`hi`
`07:58.17`	`morsing`	`Coffee?`
`07:58.20`	`George`	`no`
`07:58.24`	`morsing`	`Huh?@`
`07:58.29`	`morsing`	`What?!`
`07:58.33`	`George`	`?`
`07:58.36`	`George`	`I don't like coffee`
`07:58.49`	`morsing`	`?!?! WHAT??? HOW'S THAT POSSIBLE?`
`07:59.03`	`morsing`	`George: You have serious problems`
`07:59.19`	`George`	`:P`
`07:59.24`	`George`	`I just got my exam timetable for this term`
`07:59.26`	`George`	`15 exams`
`08:00.42`	`morsing`	`Anyone of them in drinking coffee and beer?`
`08:33.31`	`*** join/#gllug AndrewBlack (n=chatzill@81.2.66.249)`
`09:26.46`	`morsing`	`~seen Leeds`
`09:26.54`	`ibot`	`leeds <n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #gllug, 5h 53m 13s ago, saying: 'z00dax: now is downtime'.`
`09:26.55`	`morsing`	`AndrewBlack!`
`09:27.06`	`morsing`	`~seen Leeds_HK`
`09:27.08`	`ibot`	`i haven't seen 'leeds_hk', morsing`
`09:27.21`	`morsing`	`Where's Leeds gone?`
`09:31.49`	`morsing`	`:(`
`09:32.03`	`morsing`	`~seen cope`
`09:32.05`	`ibot`	`cope is currently on #debian (2d 1h 40m 50s). Has said a total of 11 messages. Is idling for 1d 19h 29m 22s, last said: ':)'.`
`09:35.31`	`AndrewBlack`	`Is there a list of functions that ibot can do?`
`10:09.59`	`wethrin`	`ibot help`
`10:10.11`	`wethrin`	`Try that`
`10:11.30`	`morsing`	`ibot help`
`10:11.39`	`morsing`	`wethrin?`
`10:11.44`	`wethrin`	`morning`
`10:12.06`	`morsing`	`' got my Treo :)`
`10:12.37`	`wethrin`	`yay`
`10:16.12`	`*** join/#gllug IAmAI (n=iamai@host-87-74-101-75.bulldogdsl.com)`
`10:18.40`	`Erwin`	`The 650 with Palm or the Windows one?`
`10:34.01`	`*** join/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk)`
`10:44.01`	`mozrat`	`ho-hum`
`11:11.21`	`mozrat`	`laziness!!`
`11:13.26`	`z00dax`	`ouch!`
`11:13.41`	`z00dax`	`i was up till 4:00am fighting adsl`
`11:19.56`	`mozrat`	`ah, fair enough`
`11:23.14`	`Kitty`	`why was you fighting adsl?`
`11:23.42`	`mozrat`	`hi kitty`
`11:23.52`	`Kitty`	`hi`
`11:24.34`	`z00dax`	`Kitty: plus.net upgraded me from ipstream-2000 to adsl-max on friday morning`
`11:24.45`	`Kitty`	`aah`
`11:25.04`	`z00dax`	`Kitty: since then my network connection has been terrible. i am getting > 15% error'ed seconds and > 15 crc errors /min`
`11:25.13`	`Kitty`	`fun`
`11:25.24`	`z00dax`	`not to mention about 2 - 5 times per hour i get adsl sync lost.`
`11:25.53`	`Kitty`	`have you tried going out with a bucket of water and putting it on the wet string ?`
`11:26.02`	`z00dax`	`as long as adsl sync comes back within 2 seconds, most ip traffic recovers, if its longer than 2 sec's - everything kills itself`
`11:26.21`	`z00dax`	`Kitty: i was hoping you would do that for me.`
`11:26.47`	`Kitty`	`:p`
`11:29.34`	`z00dax`	`is it just me or do they both seem to be a rip-off of each other / something else.`
`11:42.51`	`AndrewBlack`	`ibot help`
`11:59.04`	`morsing`	`wethrin?`
`11:59.08`	`wethrin`	`yeah?`
`12:04.58`	`George`	`hiiiiiiiiiiiii`
`12:13.53`	`cbz`	`z00dax: plus.net seems to be a bit screwed atm, my parents line is having similiar problems`
`12:19.44`	`George`	`hahaha`
`12:20.49`	`George`	`lies`
`12:21.26`	`George`	`lies`
`12:21.28`	`George`	`woops`
`12:22.17`	`George`	`SHOWA TIME`
`12:22.41`	`cbz`	`You ever tried laying of f the orange juice, George?`
`12:24.43`	`z00dax`	`cbz: :(`
`12:25.13`	`z00dax`	`cbz: George lives on orange juice and sausages`
`12:25.28`	`AndrewBlack`	`Hi wethrin`
`12:29.58`	`George`	`z00dax: LEMONADE`
`12:33.20`	`wethrin`	`Hello`
`12:33.22`	`wethrin`	`And I'm off out now`
`12:33.24`	`wethrin`	`bye!`
`12:36.27`	`George`	`wethrin: byeee xx`
`12:36.46`	`z00dax`	`i always knew you had a thing for wethrin`
`12:36.50`	`George`	`rofl`
`12:56.00`	`*** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095206.netvigator.com)`
`12:57.28`	`Leeds`	`you know what would be nice? if we didn't have this strange split between SMS (text-only messages, delivered to phones) and email (should-be-text-only messages, delivered to computers)`
`12:59.24`	`z00dax`	`unified messaging`
`12:59.57`	`Leeds`	`indeed`
`13:00.25`	`z00dax`	`and while we're at it - rope in IM as well, all networks, all proto's`
`13:00.27`	`Leeds`	`of course, the other big difference is that SMS is sender-pays... thankfully, AOL are trying to erase that difference`
`13:00.34`	`Leeds`	`IM is slightly different`
`13:00.58`	`z00dax`	`bt it could / should work like sms`
`13:01.02`	`z00dax`	`s/bt/but/`
`13:01.23`	`cbz`	`It could work with sms.`
`13:01.39`	`cbz`	`Eventually it should replace sms and sms should be more like IM.`
`13:01.56`	`cbz`	`IM working like SMS would not be good, if that was the only thing it could do.`
`13:03.52`	`Leeds`	`the difference is that SMS and email are asynchronous - it's quite acceptable to reply minutes or even hours later... IM is, well, Instant - it's meant to be interactive, synchronous`
`13:04.53`	`cbz`	`That's a user expectation.`
`13:05.19`	`z00dax`	`I've had IM'ish sort of comms over EMail too...`
`13:05.24`	`cbz`	`Besides some IMs will act as asynchronous messaging services, assuming you were offline.`
`13:05.55`	`Leeds`	`it is mainly a user expectation, yes - but I think it's a sane one... and most IM networks don't do store-and-forward`
`13:05.59`	`cbz`	`My work IM is asynchronous ;) I stay logged in all the time to reduce the expectation of instant response ;)`
`13:06.02`	`cbz`	`YIM does.`
`13:06.11`	`Leeds`	`YIM is the one I don't do :-)`
`13:06.28`	`morsing`	`Leeds!`
`13:06.34`	`morsing`	`Where have you been?`
`13:06.54`	`Leeds`	`msn for work, gtalk/jabber for fun, icq/aim for legacy`
`13:07.24`	`morsing`	`Leeds: I got my Treo`
`13:07.32`	`morsing`	`Complicated stuff`
`13:07.45`	`morsing`	`Leeds?`
`13:07.53`	`morsing`	`:(`
`13:08.10`	`Leeds`	`sorry - was organising a night out to see a jazz band with a couple of women`
`13:09.10`	`Leeds`	`I went to Fat Angelo's in SoHo for lunch, then walked to Pacific Place via a bunch of random buildings including my bank's HQ... then came home, had a brief nap, then went out again to Times Square, failed to buy trousers, came home and microwaved some pasta`
`13:09.25`	`Leeds`	`how is it complicated?`
`13:10.39`	`morsing`	`Leeds: Compared to my Nokia 3310`
`13:10.47`	`Leeds`	`anyone want me to hand over their name and an email address to the Economist (Asia) so they can get 4 week's subscriber access to the website and I get two free mags`
`13:10.48`	`Leeds`	`?`
`13:10.52`	`morsing`	`I haven't seen you in a while :)`
`13:11.18`	`Leeds`	`well, yes... it's not a phone - it's a general-purpose portable computer with built-in voice and data comms`
`13:11.35`	`Leeds`	`I've been around plenty - too much`
`13:11.45`	`Leeds`	`hmm... I guess Chelsea are champs`
`13:14.54`	`*** join/#gllug Don (n=donald@rose963.demon.co.uk)`
`13:15.26`	`*** join/#gllug simplesimon (n=simplesi@host-87-74-58-111.bulldogdsl.com)`
`13:16.03`	`Don`	`Hi - I think I have entered a room. Gllug?`
`13:16.46`	`Leeds`	`Don: good evening :-)`
`13:16.58`	`Leeds`	`this is indeed #gllug`
`13:17.29`	`Don`	`Hi - with trepidation ... I don't even know what to say!`
`13:17.52`	`Leeds`	`say hello`
`13:18.23`	`z00dax`	`Leeds: if the economist offer is open, i am up for it`
`13:18.43`	`Don`	`Yeah, hello`
`13:18.52`	`Leeds`	`z00dax: I do wonder if they're going to ask you for an Asian address to confirm you're an interesting potential customer... we'll see`
`13:19.04`	`z00dax`	`Don: why are you not out in the sun, on the beech, playing volleyball or surfing ?`
`13:19.21`	`z00dax`	`Leeds: email addy to use : z00dax AT gmail.com`
`13:19.28`	`Don`	`Oh boy, at 72! But yeah, why not?`
`13:19.39`	`Leeds`	`anyone else? 4 week's access to economist.com?`
`13:19.50`	`Leeds`	`Don: ah, that Don!`
`13:20.20`	`Don`	`Oh dear - that Don already!`
`13:21.28`	`Leeds`	`z00dax: while I understand the tree-climbing advice, why do you suggest the beech? it's not a good climbing tree at all`
`13:21.41`	`Leeds`	`are you not that Don? are you another Don?`
`13:22.55`	`z00dax`	`ugh, typo - s/beech/beach/`
`13:22.55`	`Don`	`Er um I think I am and therefore I am. I think Which Don? Did my mother lie? Am I duplicated?`
`13:22.55`	`Leeds`	`:-)`
`13:23.17`	`Don`	`I think I like this world.`
`13:23.28`	`Leeds`	`Donald W Williams, I presume`
`13:24.43`	`Don`	`Yeah and yup and utterly ashamed - for a time, that was - does anyone talk about Linux at all? I mean I can't, well not much, but I need to!`
`13:25.16`	`Leeds`	`yes, sorry, we do... sometimes... other times, we just hang out - we tend to focus if someone wants help, advice, or has a topic to discuss`
`13:25.16`	`z00dax`	`Don: sure, sometimes, but we try not to.`
`13:26.01`	`Don`	`I know - it's like beer - and sex - and, well sex.:)`
`13:31.02`	`Don`	`Tell me, sages, is it possible that the wall between the knows and don't knows has an "easy" doorway - or do I have to relearn absolutely everything acquired with that other software? For instance, how about exercises in using the command line in the manner of learning one's tables? Do such ideas gain credence?:-!`
`13:31.23`	`Leeds`	`argh, my internet is going bouncy`
`13:31.53`	`Don`	`Smack his hand, someone.`
`13:32.01`	`Leeds`	`Don: there are rosetta stone type things out there to ease the passage, but mostly it's a case of just getting comfortable`
`13:32.28`	`Leeds`	`z00dax: check your mail`
`13:32.53`	`z00dax`	`8meg broadband, when it works, is nice`
`13:33.33`	`cbz`	`it seems to be better now.`
`13:33.33`	`z00dax`	`Leeds: ty`
`13:33.52`	`Leeds`	`mine is 3.5 or so, but wildly varies in reliability and has huge latency - 300ms or so to anything outside this building`
`13:34.00`	`Don`	`Of course. And you've not dumped me out onto the cobbles for behaving like an idiot. Yet. I've often heard of the linux "bible" - does it have a tityle, or better, an ISBN number?`
`13:34.31`	`z00dax`	`i am getting 8ms pings to www.google.com`
`13:34.48`	`Leeds`	`there isn't really a bible, I'd say... Running Linux is the closest thing, but I don't know how up-to-date it is`
`13:35.00`	`z00dax`	`of-course, there is nothing going on with the net at the moment. maybe i should download a few dvd's worth of stuff`
`13:35.14`	`cbz`	`Pick up an old unix book and read it.`
`13:35.17`	`Leeds`	`ping -c 100 www.google.com`
`13:36.00`	`Leeds`	`z00dax: should you need a valid address in HK, ask`
`13:36.08`	`z00dax`	`Leeds: wildo, thanks`
`13:36.45`	`Leeds`	`I do wonder how they honestly think that requiring 4 referrals will ensure getting 4 valid ones`
`13:36.46`	`z00dax`	`5th Ed, Running Linux - Updt: Jan 06, 2006`
`13:36.53`	`Don`	`OH crikey. RTFM already! OK, will do. Just grasp how chuffed I am to actually speak in this way. But there y'are, and I'll go play with google for a while. Anyway - a heartfelt thanks people!`
`13:36.56`	`Leeds`	`100 packets transmitted, 92 received, 8% packet loss, time 99492ms`
`13:36.57`	`Leeds`	`rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 515.355/1021.902/1612.422/167.789 ms, pipe 2`
`13:37.11`	`Leeds`	`I guess that's relatively up-to-date then :-)`
`13:37.27`	`z00dax`	`--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---`
`13:37.27`	`z00dax`	`100 packets transmitted, 100 received, 0% packet loss, time 99227ms`
`13:37.27`	`z00dax`	`rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 10.837/14.133/49.609/6.301 ms`
`13:37.31`	`Leeds`	`for reference, that's an average ping time of just over 1 second to www.google.com`
`13:38.18`	`Leeds`	`and my reliability has improved - I was getting regular packet loss over 25% earlier this week`
`13:39.13`	`Leeds`	`Don: the most important thing is to slap Linux on a box - a live CD, if you don't have a spare box - and just play with it - everything has a man page, we're happy to help, and don't be afraid of data loss`
`13:40.00`	`Leeds`	`(when I say everything has a man page, what I mean is that running "man X" at the command-line will give you the docs for X)`
`13:40.47`	`Don`	`OK, I'll go do the things I thought might work and suck it and see. But thanks and I will be back:-]`
`13:40.59`	`*** part/#gllug Don (n=donald@rose963.demon.co.uk)`
`13:45.56`	`z00dax`	`Leeds: needed an add, but a .uk one seems to have worked.`
`13:52.19`	`Leeds`	`cool`
`13:55.05`	`Leeds`	`time to go out, and all that jazz`
`13:55.22`	`z00dax`	`have fun`
`13:55.24`	`Leeds`	`no idea what this is going to be like... big band jazz?`
`13:55.47`	`z00dax`	`as long as they have all played together a few times before, it should be good`
`13:56.01`	`z00dax`	`if they met over a few drinks, last evening, maybe not so much`
`13:56.26`	`Leeds`	`they are a regular band AFAIK... /me gone`
`14:04.54`	`*** join/#gllug simplesimon (n=simplesi@host-87-74-58-111.bulldogdsl.com)`
`14:20.56`	`*** join/#gllug JAV (n=JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`14:21.14`	`JAV`	`good afternoon`
`14:44.16`	`George`	`yo`
`14:51.54`	`z00dax`	`morsing: ping, where did you get the Treo from ? none of the network seems to be selling it directly themselves`
`14:58.33`	`George`	`my hair looks really long.`
`15:00.03`	`z00dax`	`bet thats a good thing for all the wildlife you host under there`
`15:00.28`	`George`	`lol`
`15:00.41`	`George`	`it's all sticking out to the side`
`15:00.43`	`George`	`:D`
`15:03.17`	`George`	`Leeds: erm, looks like an average ping time of 0.1s?`
`15:38.51`	`mozrat`	`Hi all`
`15:39.14`	`George`	`hi mozrat`
`15:39.46`	`mozrat`	`George!`
`15:39.59`	`George`	`yayness`
`15:44.28`	`mozrat`	`George, do you have any opinion on Rooneys injury and the impact on Englands chances in the World Cup?`
`15:44.48`	`George`	`no`
`15:44.52`	`George`	`who the fuck is Rooney?`
`15:45.21`	`mozrat`	`:)`
`15:46.20`	`z00dax`	`mozrat: hey, and you should have some email`
`15:47.01`	`mozrat`	`you mean a Russian?`
`15:47.05`	`George`	`no`
`15:47.06`	`George`	`a ruffian`
`15:47.16`	`mozrat`	`z00dax, got it, thanks`
`15:47.38`	`z00dax`	`mozrat: comments welcome :)`
`15:47.48`	`mozrat`	`whoever just pm me should know im on my blackberry and changing screens is a PITA`
`15:50.25`	`z00dax`	`wasent me`
`15:50.38`	`mozrat`	`i found the culprit`
`15:53.36`	`z00dax`	`George: did you ever find out what the fair use limit on the t-mobile 3g data plan was ?`
`16:00.48`	`George`	`nope`
`16:30.23`	`morsing`	`z00dax: expansys`
`16:47.24`	`mozrat`	`some bastard has stolen my dads trailer that i borrowed`
`16:54.47`	`*** join/#gllug murb (n=murbix@blue.danu.be) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`16:54.47`	`*** join/#gllug wethrin (n=dankolb@ipv6.eco.li) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`16:55.41`	`andrew__`	`Hi there`
`16:57.59`	`Leeds`	`mmm... smooth jazz...`
`17:00.30`	`Leeds`	`mozrat: :-(`
`17:04.13`	`JAV`	`hey pachuco!`
`17:04.14`	`JAV`	`:D`
`17:04.46`	`andrew__`	`whats this business about netsplit above`
`17:05.15`	`Leeds`	`andrew__: what about it?`
`17:06.15`	`Leeds`	`JAV: ?`
`17:06.25`	`JAV`	`the song`
`17:06.35`	`andrew__`	`Just curious - there was a message "Netsplit calvino.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net "`
`17:06.56`	`JAV`	`the song.. in The Mask soundtrack`
`17:07.09`	`Leeds`	`is it?`
`17:07.33`	`JAV`	`let's see`
`17:07.43`	`Leeds`	`andrew__: there was a netsplit - calvino temporarily left the freenode network`
`17:07.49`	`JAV`	`http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000002AOH/103-2705821-5256600?v=glance&n=5174`
`17:08.13`	`JAV`	`anyway, a great film with a great soundtrack`
`17:13.43`	`JAV`	`Leeds: which song did they play?`
`17:14.34`	`Leeds`	`don't know... the one in the movie after the Mask changes the clothes of the band`
`17:15.08`	`JAV`	`http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?z=y&EAN=74646620724&ITM=1 --> more linux playable`
`17:15.56`	`Leeds`	`the one which starts with the drummer banging on the kettle drums`
`17:17.56`	`Leeds`	`you know what would be nice? a shell which could recognise a URL and escape the & for me`
`17:19.09`	`Leeds`	`JAV: that's the tune,yes`
`17:19.21`	`JAV`	`y use mplayer -playlist "url"`
`17:19.32`	`JAV`	`I`
`17:20.12`	`Leeds`	`but they didn't use the vocals this evening - they were doing it as an encore, one of their vocalists had already sat down, the other was playing the trombone`
`17:21.28`	`JAV`	`listening It live must be very good`
`17:22.00`	`Leeds`	`it was fun, yes :-) there are about 18 members in the band, and the place was very cramped`
`17:22.37`	`JAV`	`18? a big band :D`
`17:23.04`	`Leeds`	`one of the girls I was there with went into the lobby after a few minutes because she felt enclosed, the other stayed and really really enjoyed it - it's a regular monthly performance and she said she already wants to go next month :-)`
`17:23.39`	`Leeds`	`http://www.hkfringe.com.hk/english/index_eng.asp`
`17:25.50`	`wethrin`	`Hello`
`17:25.50`	`Leeds`	`morning wethrin`
`17:26.19`	`Leeds`	`"look ma, I'm roadkill har har ha"`
`17:26.36`	`JAV`	`hello wethrin`
`17:27.38`	`*** part/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-115-101.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`17:29.20`	`Leeds`	`IIRC I bought this DVD before I had a DVD player`
`17:33.30`	`JAV`	`I win, I had nearly 200 3'5 floppy disk before I had a pc :)`
`17:33.42`	`*** join/#gllug boudiccas (n=boudicca@88-108-115-101.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`17:33.48`	`Leeds`	`a pc or a computer?`
`17:34.04`	`JAV`	`a pc, previously I had a Sony MSX`
`17:34.30`	`JAV`	`without floppy, of course`
`17:34.47`	`Leeds`	`then...?`
`17:35.50`	`JAV`	`I was quite sure I'll buy a pc so the same purchase day I have all 100% working`
`17:36.28`	`JAV`	`this was loong time ago`
`17:36.47`	`rhowe`	`hm, it seems that my DSL's been upgraded to ~7Mbit/s download`
`17:36.48`	`rhowe`	`I just did an apt-get at 662kB/s`
`17:39.27`	`Leeds`	`I don't think I ever once owned 200 floppies in my life`
`17:43.22`	`JAV`	`I have a pair of (very big) boxes of them now next to the house (outside)`
`17:45.11`	`JAV`	`last month I put in trash can the 5'25 ones and that boxes soon will follow the same destiny`
`17:49.41`	`rhowe`	`ibot change 40 gbp to hkd`
`17:50.11`	`Leeds`	`I gave my 5.25 drive away years ago`
`17:52.30`	`simplesimon`	`I have 250 floppies in a cardboard box, wondering how best to dispose of them`
`17:54.48`	`JAV`	`http://www.verrire.com/img/img_2413b.jpg`
`17:56.02`	`simplesimon`	`lmfao`
`17:57.22`	`simplesimon`	`well, did you anally image each and everyone "just in case" before consigning them to a box marked "chuck" over a year ago?`
`17:57.37`	`simplesimon`	`huh? huh? ;)`
`17:58.09`	`Leeds`	`zzzzzzzzzzzzz`
`17:58.30`	`JAV`	`nn Leeds`
`18:00.15`	`simplesimon`	`I presume you all know and love www.deadmedia.org ?`
`18:00.27`	`JAV`	`simplesimon: I have several of this boxes :)`
`18:01.44`	`simplesimon`	`guess it would cost more in money and fossil fuel to ship them to the 3rd world than it's worth...`
`18:02.20`	`JAV`	`they survived a fire, that's because boxes are slightly brown`
`18:02.47`	`simplesimon`	`do you have any / good idea what's on them ?`
`18:03.33`	`JAV`	`most of them (99%) are very good labeled`
`18:04.24`	`*** join/#gllug Gonz0 (n=Gonzo@82-35-9-153.cable.ubr02.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`18:04.49`	`JAV`	`nothing I want to keep, I don't throw them because of nostalgy :D`
`18:05.01`	`simplesimon`	`understood`
`18:06.30`	`simplesimon`	`I must get my head around this netsplit thing`
`18:07.05`	`stephen`	`it happens when two (or more) of the servers in the network can't communicate with each other`
`18:07.25`	`stephen`	`thus partitioning the network into two (or more) pieces`
`18:08.08`	`simplesimon`	`a very concise explanation, thank you... no update protocol, or not considered worth it ?`
`18:08.34`	`rhowe`	`Anyone know if UKFSN has a local Debian mirror?`
`18:08.46`	`simplesimon`	`fyi I used irc for 1st time 3 days ago`
`18:09.10`	`JAV`	`a lot of time of your life saved :D`
`18:09.25`	`murb`	`moin`
`18:09.27`	`simplesimon`	`JAV: lmfao`
`18:10.42`	`stephen`	`simplesimon: it's a network rather than a software issue, so there's not much they can do about it`
`18:11.03`	`simplesimon`	`yeah, I diddled around with yahschmoo chat a few years ago when on night shift, but soon gave up.... seems like much more erudite company here`
`18:11.35`	`mozrat`	`hello all`
`18:13.04`	`simplesimon`	`stephen: didn't express that very well, and probably this isn't much better, what I meant was, when the seperated networks re-establish a link, is there a provision for them to update each other with missed messages?`
`18:13.58`	`stephen`	`simplesimon: yes, there should be some way of recovering the network to a consistent state`
`18:14.23`	`mozrat`	`simplesimon, the real time nature of chat means that would be very confusing`
`18:14.41`	`rhowe`	`mozrat: That sucks`
`18:14.59`	`rhowe`	`mozrat: Didn't you have it chained to a metal hoop concreted into the ground?`
`18:16.08`	`simplesimon`	`mozrat: understood... absent some horrendously complex timestamping and dynamic whoknowswhat.... you got me to answer my own question, I think`
`18:17.03`	`simplesimon`	`crime statistic? victim or perp? ;)`
`18:17.14`	`JAV`	`mozrat: sorry`
`18:17.30`	`simplesimon`	`sorry to hear that -`
`18:19.43`	`mozrat`	`its not a problem, just a pain in the ass`
`18:20.06`	`George`	`moo`
`18:20.44`	`murb`	`anyone know cheap ways of turning pounds to euros in london?`
`18:21.36`	`JAV`	`bricklayers one more day at my home and I'll become a real crime statistic in the perp side`
`18:21.42`	`rhowe`	`murb: M&S always seemed to have reasonable rates`
`18:22.05`	`simplesimon`	`murb: AMEX Platinum?`
`18:26.33`	`murb`	`rhowe: M&S?`
`18:26.47`	`murb`	`simplesimon: how does that work?`
`18:27.26`	`rhowe`	`murb: Marks & Spencer`
`18:27.37`	`murb`	`rhowe: hey do international money transfers???`
`18:27.40`	`rhowe`	`murb: Most stores have a financial services counter`
`18:27.45`	`murb`	`or i could buy my lunch there in euroes? :-)`
`18:27.49`	`rhowe`	`murb: No, currency exchange`
`18:28.08`	`murb`	`rhowe: so i walk in there with 150000 in cash and ask for euros?`
`18:28.30`	`simplesimon`	`can't remember, gave mine up 18m ago, but basically you pay them a few hundred quid pa, get bundled deals with most services like that free of comm`
`18:28.30`	`rhowe`	`murb: I suspect they have a limit of some kind :)`
`18:29.03`	`simplesimon`	`so admittedly only cheap if you have one already`
`18:29.08`	`murb`	`simplesimon: given i don't live in the uk i don't think that would be really useful.`
`18:29.26`	`murb`	`simplesimon: i already lost 100 quid in about a 1000 quid transfer :(`
`18:29.41`	`murb`	`and fucking banks.uk require you to go their in person to do transfers`
`18:30.34`	`simplesimon`	`SOBs...`
`18:31.36`	`rhowe`	`murb: For amounts like that a foreign draft isn't so expensive`
`18:32.09`	`murb`	`rhowe: i just don't want to be screwed on the exhcnage rate again.`
`18:32.26`	`rhowe`	`"obtain drafts in a variety of currencies and for any amount"`
`18:32.32`	`rhowe`	`"£18 for a draft for more than £101"`
`18:32.40`	`murb`	`rhowe: url?`
`18:32.41`	`rhowe`	`http://www.natwest.com/business02.asp?id=BUSINESS/DAY_TO_DAY/INTERNATIONAL_SERVICES/INTERNATIONAL_PAYMENTS/FOREIGN_DRAFTS`
`18:32.44`	`murb`	`danke`
`18:32.50`	`rhowe`	`You probably need an account with them though`
`18:32.56`	`rhowe`	`and maybe you need to be in the UK, etc etc`
`18:33.09`	`murb`	`well i will probably have to do that anyway at this rate...`
`18:33.18`	`rhowe`	`That's for business accounts, but I've done a foreign draft from my personal account and it worked just fine`
`18:33.37`	`rhowe`	`You will probably want to check that the receiving bank will not charge you for processing it (it's like a cheque)`
`18:33.47`	`rhowe`	`I sent one to a friend and his bank charged him (in .nl)`
`18:34.00`	`rhowe`	`Even though you tick a box on the draft saying "I pay all fees"`
`18:34.19`	`rhowe`	`murb: Have a browse here too.. http://www.natwest.com/business02.asp?id=BUSINESS/DAY_TO_DAY/INTERNATIONAL_SERVICES/INTERNATIONAL_PAYMENTS`
`18:41.41`	`murb`	`rhowe: they don't seem to mention the dirty word that is exchange rates :(`
`18:41.49`	`murb`	`which is where i got stung with hsbc`
`18:42.08`	`rhowe`	`murb: nod.. I can find out for you on Tuesday if you like`
`18:42.17`	`murb`	`rhowe: would be really cool.`
`18:42.40`	`rhowe`	`murb: What about paypal?`
`18:43.14`	`murb`	`rhowe: it is a transfer to myself.`
`18:43.47`	`rhowe`	`murb: Credit your account in one currency and withdraw in euros if you can`
`18:44.05`	`murb`	`rhowe: problem is daily limits, 300 quid / day`
`18:45.36`	`rhowe`	`murb: Ah.. and you can't prearrange something with them?`
`18:46.44`	`murb`	`rhowe: i tried that 2 years ago when i was going skiing`
`18:46.54`	`murb`	`they didn't grok the concept of people not taking cards in payment.`
`18:47.10`	`murb`	`(or atleast stuff being more expensive with plastic)`
`18:47.35`	`murb`	`the 500 quid a day limit was reasonable.`
`18:47.49`	`morsing`	`Hey guys - I'm a double uncle now :) :) :)`
`18:48.22`	`murb`	`your siblings are been busy?`
`18:48.38`	`morsing`	`Just one`
`19:01.59`	`mozrat`	`morsing, congrats!!`
`19:14.42`	`andrew__`	`Nas`
`19:14.48`	`andrew__`	`ignore that`
`19:14.56`	`andrew__`	`Has anyone used Google Calendar?`
`19:15.16`	`andrew__`	`Amused it gives date as "Apr NaN - 6, 2006"`
`19:26.06`	`wethrin`	`morsing: Yay! You can be a bad influence on the child now!`
`19:29.11`	`*** join/#gllug puckman (n=puckman@dynamic-62-56-13-221.park-s46b.dslaccess.co.uk)`
`19:29.54`	`puckman`	`mozrat`
`19:29.56`	`puckman`	`you there?`
`19:37.00`	`*** join/#gllug Gonz0 (n=Gonzo@82-35-9-153.cable.ubr02.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`19:45.13`	`*** join/#gllug Gonz0 (n=Gonzo@82-35-9-153.cable.ubr02.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`19:46.20`	`*** join/#gllug Gonz0 (n=Gonzo@82-35-9-153.cable.ubr02.hari.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`20:50.55`	`morsing`	`mozrat, wethrin: Thanks :)`
`20:51.14`	`morsing`	`wethrin: I've been a bad influence on my oldest nephew for three years now`
`20:51.42`	`wethrin`	`morsing: Good good`
`20:51.58`	`wethrin`	`Oh, and I use PuTTY on most Windows machines for my ssh needs`
`20:52.39`	`morsing`	`Crap`
`20:53.24`	`wethrin`	`Or Cygwin+xterm`
`20:54.28`	`wethrin`	`Is there something for which putty isn't good enough? Or you're just not particularly comfortable with it?`
`20:55.40`	`morsing`	`I just don't like using + it's got bugs`
`20:56.12`	`morsing`	`Anyway, going to bed`
`20:56.14`	`wethrin`	`night!`
`20:56.15`	`morsing`	`'night`
`20:56.16`	`wethrin`	`Fair enough`
`21:15.53`	`George`	`I can't get USB to work on my server...`
`21:15.54`	`George`	`wtf.`
`21:16.11`	`wethrin`	`hah`
`21:16.15`	`wethrin`	`USB has no place on servers!`
`21:16.23`	`George`	`shush`
`21:16.30`	`George`	`I want to grab some stuff off it`
`21:16.38`	`George`	`so I plugged in a 2.5" usb hard disk`
`21:16.49`	`George`	`lsusb seems to report nothing`
`21:43.06`	`mozrat`	`he is a nice guy!`
`21:43.15`	`mozrat`	`I hope I am that interested in learning when I am 72`
`21:45.13`	`George`	`Don Knuth?`
`21:45.48`	`George`	`oh wait, Knuth is only 68`
`21:47.44`	`wethrin`	`Knuth has done more than most computery people ever will`
`21:47.46`	`mozrat`	`Don M Williams`
`21:51.17`	`George`	`wethrin: indeed`
`21:51.27`	`George`	`Knuth is my hero`
`21:54.12`	`mozrat`	`I must sleep now`
`21:54.18`	`Erwin`	`What a strange movie, "Lemming"`
`21:55.10`	`George`	`mozrat: why?`
`21:56.47`	`mozrat`	`nn`
`21:57.27`	`George`	`bah`
`22:26.35`	`*** part/#gllug cbz (i=chriseb@vortex.ukshells.co.uk)`
`22:46.58`	`George`	`http://cniehaus.livejournal.com/20398.html`
`22:47.07`	`George`	`wethrin: an incentive to become a KDE devel?`
`22:48.34`	`wethrin`	`Nah :)`
`22:48.38`	`wethrin`	`I don't believe in C++`
`22:58.26`	`George`	`wethrin: bah`
`22:58.30`	`wethrin`	`:)`
`22:58.32`	`George`	`wethrin: that's because you're a physicist`
`22:58.51`	`wethrin`	`FORTRAN, baybeee`
`22:58.52`	`George`	`physicists rarely have good judgement`
`22:58.59`	`George`	`I rest my case`
`22:59.12`	`wethrin`	`:)`
`23:00.27`	`George`	`fat pie`
`23:00.50`	`George`	`:)`
`23:00.57`	`George`	`mmm fast tunnel`
`23:01.04`	`George`	`currently tunneling through telehouse`
`23:01.30`	`wethrin`	`Shovel or spoon?`
`23:01.58`	`z00dax`	`off now, nite folkx`
`23:02.11`	`wethrin`	`night`
`23:02.46`	`George`	`z00dax: night`
`23:02.54`	`George`	`wethrin: fibre baby`
`23:03.05`	`wethrin`	`Yeah!`
`23:03.11`	`George`	`:P`
`23:03.33`	`George`	`wethrin being a physicist should know all about total internal reflection :P`
`23:03.44`	`wethrin`	`:)`
`23:04.44`	`George`	`and pi`
`23:04.49`	`George`	`mmmm pi`
`23:05.06`	`George`	`mm 100mbit tunnel`
`23:05.19`	`wethrin`	`PIE`
`23:06.18`	`George`	`wethrin: know much about burning DVD-Rs?`
`23:06.40`	`wethrin`	`I think it's growisofs you want`
`23:09.09`	`George`	`ok`
`23:09.25`	`wethrin`	`hm. maybe not`
`23:09.36`	`wethrin`	`dvdrecord, I appear to have`
`23:10.33`	`George`	`hrmm`
`23:10.37`	`George`	`I could always NX to the server`
`23:10.39`	`George`	`and use k3b`
`23:10.40`	`George`	`lol`
`23:11.12`	`wethrin`	`Yup :)`
`23:11.23`	`wethrin`	`It's in the Debian package dvdrtools`
`23:53.14`	`*** join/#gllug arika-chan (n=angelic@host86-131-27-247.range86-131.btcentralplus.com)`

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