| 02:14.55 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@202.82.163.139) |
| 03:48.28 | Leeds | I wonder when Bulldog will notice that I am no longer a customer of theirs, but that I still owe them money, and stop just sending an automated bill for the same amount each month |
| 05:32.40 | Cope | y'know; I wonder that too, at 5am |
| 06:50.36 | JAV | morning! |
| 06:52.19 | Leeds | Cope: 'twasn't 5am here... |
| 07:16.12 | murb | completely. |
| 07:17.29 | Leeds | for those who may care, OO.o 2.0.0 (that's a lot of Oo0s!) final is rolling out to mirrors |
| 07:18.04 | murb | Leeds: let us know when 2.0.0.0.0.0.1.2.3.4.debugged-edition is ready. |
| 07:19.09 | Leeds | I've been using the rc's for a while and found them very stable and usable |
| 07:20.56 | murb | my girlfriend found some table bugs, but was too pissed off with the computer to let me look. |
| 07:21.29 | Leeds | ah, I've mainly been using scalc |
| 07:26.21 | murb | they did seem like bugs though, table spanning several pages, wouldn't let you go to one of the pages and edit stuff. of course content of page showed up in print preview etc. |
| 07:36.08 | Leeds | sounds like a bug alright |
| 07:44.31 | Leeds | wethrin: did you get in touch with france? |
| 07:44.46 | wethrin | Leeds: Ahh.....not yet. Oops. I should respond to that email of yours |
| 07:44.54 | wethrin | I've had too much other stuff on |
| 07:45.56 | wethrin | Right. I run off to labs now. Bye! |
| 08:03.57 | Cope | morning |
| 08:12.43 | *** join/#gllug SuD (n=Ask@82.198.111.213) |
| 08:13.19 | SuD | morning, i've got an offtopic question |
| 08:13.32 | Leeds | morning |
| 08:13.34 | SuD | anyone went to candem market and saw those cute turbo lighters? |
| 08:13.52 | mozrat | Morning |
| 08:13.58 | Leeds | nope, never did that |
| 08:14.13 | mozrat | SuD, the afterburner type ones? |
| 08:14.27 | SuD | i went there 8 years ago... i don't know how they are called (im spanish) |
| 08:14.53 | SuD | it had a marihuana leaf on it |
| 08:14.56 | mozrat | SuD, nevermind :) |
| 08:15.16 | mozrat | SuD, they still sell them probably, that place hasn't changed in the past 20 years |
| 08:15.55 | SuD | hehe, ok, i lost it and now i miss it. i have not found afterburner lighters here (apart from ornamental) |
| 08:16.21 | mozrat | SuD, come over and buy another one. |
| 08:16.31 | mozrat | We'll buy you a beer :) |
| 08:16.44 | SuD | yeah, it's only about 3000 miles from here |
| 08:17.20 | mozrat | and? |
| 08:17.25 | mozrat | I said we'll buy you beer |
| 08:17.53 | *** join/#gllug morsing (n=morsing@emil.morsing.cc) |
| 08:18.10 | mozrat | Morning! |
| 08:18.30 | morsing | mozrat! |
| 08:18.37 | morsing | Have a doughnut... |
| 08:18.48 | mozrat | Mmmmm, doughnuts |
| 08:23.04 | Leeds | morning morsing |
| 08:26.04 | morsing | morning |
| 08:28.25 | murb | morsing: but no winning lottery tickets? |
| 08:30.50 | Cope | rtfrfc! |
| 08:31.16 | morsing | Cope: Why? |
| 08:31.47 | Cope | morsing: because I need to know some ntp stuff |
| 08:33.01 | mozrat | I'm getting RSI in my thumb from reading Peter Grandi emails on my blackberry |
| 08:33.09 | mozrat | they scroll for about 100 lengths of the screen |
| 08:35.01 | murb | morsing: get private treatment for it and sue Peter for the costs. |
| 08:35.07 | murb | s/morsing/mozrat/ |
| 08:35.27 | mozrat | murb: I'm going to have one massively musclar thumb and one normal sized thumb :( |
| 08:35.32 | mozrat | people will point and laugh |
| 08:35.44 | mozrat | muscular |
| 08:35.53 | murb | who is peter anyway? |
| 08:36.59 | mozrat | I don't know but whoever coded him used the -vvvvvvvvvvvv switch |
| 08:37.14 | Cope | murb: interesting fellow; 50s; very widely read - but somewhat verbose. |
| 08:41.20 | murb | Cope: has he been to any gllug beer meetings i've been at? |
| 08:41.30 | murb | (just idly wonder if i've met the guy) |
| 08:41.31 | murb | ing |
| 08:44.44 | Cope | murb: don't think so |
| 08:51.10 | morsing | "Please state the nature of your Unix emergency" |
| 08:51.30 | mozrat | I've aliased 'ls' to 'rm -rf /' |
| 08:51.32 | mozrat | what do I do? |
| 08:52.00 | murb | echo * |
| 08:52.10 | murb | always use shell bulitins |
| 09:01.07 | *** join/#gllug kbsingh (n=kbsingh@nat1.lon1.uk.xinit.com) |
| 09:01.25 | eye69 | mozrat: \ls :) |
| 09:01.47 | mozrat | eye69: no :( |
| 09:02.00 | Leeds | afternoon kbsingh |
| 09:02.06 | kbsingh | hey Leeds |
| 09:02.27 | eye69 | mozrat: Well, 'unalias ls' is a good thing, but \ls lets you run ls. |
| 09:02.37 | mozrat | eye69: Oh, I didn't know that :) |
| 09:03.41 | eye69 | I'm trying to phone a shop that is nearly always on the phone. They should install a phone queuing system. |
| 09:05.57 | morsing | If I create a suid script with "su - root -c /bin/bash |
| 09:06.13 | morsing | in it, will it change my user to root without a passwd? |
| 09:06.34 | Leeds | no suid scripts on Linux |
| 09:06.45 | morsing | Mmm... So how can I do it? |
| 09:06.49 | eye69 | Finally I got through, and they've received the stuff I ordered. |
| 09:06.56 | Leeds | sudo |
| 09:07.12 | Leeds | or some other binary way... |
| 09:07.18 | morsing | Admin guy/owner can see that to easily |
| 09:07.26 | morsing | s/to/too/ |
| 09:07.41 | Leeds | good :-) |
| 09:08.13 | morsing | good? |
| 09:08.16 | Leeds | if you can make something setuid root, all you need to do is write a tiny C program which exec's bash |
| 09:08.24 | Leeds | why are you trying to write tools to break root? |
| 09:08.37 | morsing | I need an easy way of leaving a root back-door on this box I have an account on |
| 09:08.51 | Leeds | trying to get hold of the already-determined winning numbers for the draw this weekend? |
| 09:09.02 | morsing | What's a see-program? |
| 09:09.11 | Leeds | a C program |
| 09:09.15 | morsing | ? |
| 09:09.24 | Leeds | a program, written in the C programming language |
| 09:10.08 | Leeds | having an easy root backdoor in a machine is generally a very very bad thing |
| 09:10.24 | morsing | Indeed. |
| 09:10.33 | morsing | But it's not my system so I don't care |
| 09:10.50 | morsing | The administrator is slack - it punishment |
| 09:11.00 | Leeds | so unless you're going to cut me in on the proceeds... :-) |
| 09:11.06 | morsing | :-) |
| 09:11.32 | murb | morsing: chmod 4755 `which dd` |
| 09:11.48 | morsing | murb: What does that do? |
| 09:11.59 | morsing | Ahh... I see |
| 09:12.01 | murb | morsing: gives you a root backdoor. |
| 09:12.26 | morsing | So I can copy a root shell or how? |
| 09:12.42 | Leeds | in fact, gives anyone logged into the machine the ability to do pretty much anything |
| 09:12.55 | morsing | Leeds: Sounds good to me :-D |
| 09:13.14 | Leeds | no, sounds bad |
| 09:13.26 | murb | Leeds: depends on who owns dd really. |
| 09:14.30 | Leeds | root, on my machine |
| 09:14.48 | morsing | How does that do anything?!? |
| 09:16.09 | murb | morsing: echo -en "root::0:0:root:/root:/bin/sh\n..." | dd of=/dev/passwd |
| 09:16.15 | murb | s/dev/etc/ |
| 09:19.32 | Leeds | or, of course, "dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/root" |
| 09:22.20 | Leeds | or being slightly nicer, write it to /dev/kmem |
| 09:24.33 | murb | /dev/root: No such file or directory |
| 09:29.04 | morsing | And how to get a root shell? |
| 09:48.23 | Cope | ah |
| 09:50.23 | murb | morsing: cp /bin/su /tmp/su.bk |
| 09:50.39 | murb | dd if=randomexecbinbashcode of=/bin/su |
| 10:11.58 | *** join/#gllug Gonzo (n=Gonzo@82-35-237-46.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 10:14.02 | morsing | Gonzo! |
| 11:04.46 | Leeds | hometime |
| 11:15.46 | *** join/#gllug AngelChild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 11:27.10 | mozrat | woo AngelChild |
| 11:27.15 | AngelChild | yay mozrat |
| 11:27.20 | mozrat | howsyou |
| 11:27.46 | AngelChild | BT suck: |
| 11:27.46 | AngelChild | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:27.46 | AngelChild | This may cause speed issues on your ADSL Broadband connection |
| 11:27.47 | AngelChild | The target upgrade date for Hampton is: 2005-11-01 |
| 11:28.06 | mozrat | :/ |
| 11:28.08 | AngelChild | apart from that pretty good xD |
| 11:28.14 | AngelChild | how be thee? |
| 11:28.28 | mozrat | Good, struggling with OS X Server today |
| 11:30.19 | AngelChild | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:31.10 | mozrat | It's a server in gay Paris - bound to the AD, see's AD users, but AFPServer won't authenticate kerberos tickets |
| 11:31.20 | mozrat | no matter |
| 11:31.22 | AngelChild | ah |
| 11:31.34 | AngelChild | "Nathan Bracken has backed down from his claim that breath-freshening mints may have aided England's reverse swing." <---- rofl |
| 11:31.43 | mozrat | lol |
| 11:34.36 | mozrat | Have you been studying this moin? |
| 11:34.44 | Cope | AngelChild: excellent |
| 11:35.01 | AngelChild | well, I had an intelligent algorithms lecture (eigenvalues... woo...) |
| 11:35.47 | AngelChild | maths and data processing, basically |
| 11:35.50 | AngelChild | man I hate coughing |
| 11:36.02 | mozrat | Give up smoking |
| 11:36.38 | AngelChild | I've never smoked ever |
| 11:36.54 | mozrat | gd |
| 11:39.22 | mozrat | gah - stupid OS X |
| 11:39.33 | mozrat | I've set it up with the UK keyboard layout |
| 11:39.37 | mozrat | which works fine |
| 11:39.49 | mozrat | but when it pops up looking for authorization |
| 11:39.58 | mozrat | it suddenly without warning uses the French layout |
| 11:40.16 | mozrat | and my a's are now q's |
| 11:40.23 | mozrat | WHY WOULD IT DO THAT? |
| 11:42.40 | murb | mozrat: because it hates you. |
| 11:42.46 | AngelChild | because it's french? |
| 11:43.14 | murb | the rain is that bad? |
| 11:44.05 | mozrat | murb: the feeling is mutual |
| 11:47.00 | mozrat | AngelChild: do you share a place? |
| 11:47.09 | AngelChild | with two computer engineers |
| 11:47.28 | murb | AngelChild: glad i'm not your landlord! |
| 11:47.28 | mozrat | eek |
| 11:48.44 | AngelChild | murb: the landlord is my friend's dad :) |
| 11:48.56 | AngelChild | hence why I'm paying this month's rent somewhat late |
| 11:49.20 | murb | AngelChild: my landlord is my girlfriends grandfather and i'd not dare pay late! |
| 11:49.27 | AngelChild | hehe |
| 11:49.35 | AngelChild | xD |
| 11:49.45 | AngelChild | I won't get away with it after this month though :) |
| 11:49.53 | AngelChild | got a standing order setup though |
| 11:55.49 | mozrat | I hope to find a Brie, lettuce and Grape sandwich in Sainsburies but demand is high for those babies |
| 11:55.54 | mozrat | and I've left it late :( |
| 11:55.59 | mozrat | bbiab |
| 11:56.10 | wethrin | D'oh |
| 11:56.12 | wethrin | Make it yourself |
| 12:03.18 | Cope | murb: you there? |
| 12:03.25 | murb | Cope: I am here. |
| 12:03.44 | Cope | murb: what's 'tagging' in the context of domain names? |
| 12:04.25 | murb | Cope: in the context of nominet domains it is the person who had control of you domains nominet identifier. |
| 12:05.06 | Cope | murb: ok, so if I wa asked to 'tag' a domain that's been de-tagged - does that just mean re-register with nominet? |
| 12:05.38 | murb | Cope: if the domain is detagged and was registered to you, you have to pay i think a fee to nominet and they'll retag it. |
| 12:05.55 | murb | but only if you can show it was orginally owned by you. |
| 12:06.46 | murb | normally you wouldn't want it with Nominet as they charge 80 quid / 2years + VAT rather than the reseller rate of 5 + VAT / 2 year |
| 12:07.36 | Cope | murb: i think the situation is a client who was hosted by someone else, and is moving to us; the SOA for their domain is 'foo.bar' - that needs to be de-tagegd, and that we want it... but I don't think we have the ability to tag it... |
| 12:07.40 | Cope | does that make sensE? |
| 12:08.12 | murb | Cope: the old reseller as to release it to your tag. |
| 12:08.29 | murb | if they don't want to you can get nominet to move it for you, for a fee of 15 quid. |
| 12:08.32 | Cope | murb: i don't we have a 'tag' we can use for clients |
| 12:08.34 | murb | s/you/$client/ |
| 12:08.43 | murb | Cope: you are not nominet members? |
| 12:08.51 | Cope | murb: i am sure the uunet bit must be |
| 12:09.28 | murb | http://www.nominet.org.uk/Members/ListOfMembers/ # for an incomplete list. |
| 12:09.52 | murb | well UUNET Deutschland GmbH is.. |
| 12:10.19 | murb | as are MCI Worldcom Ltd |
| 12:10.28 | Cope | murb: so i can ask $client to approach nominet and get it retagged... or is the point that becuase 'digex' may not be nominet members, the whole conversation is artificial? |
| 12:10.59 | murb | Cope: is the domain active at the moment? |
| 12:11.11 | Cope | murb: www.maplin.co.uk |
| 12:11.40 | murb | they need to talk to ENERGIS-SQUARED |
| 12:12.40 | Cope | energis have said they are going to de-tag it |
| 12:12.46 | murb | they need to do an ips-release: yourtag |
| 12:12.47 | Cope | incidentally digex uk is a nominet tag holder |
| 12:12.51 | murb | Cope: you don't want them to do that.. |
| 12:13.01 | Cope | well... they are! |
| 12:13.08 | murb | if they do that the nameservers are removed and maplin.co.uk goes off the air :( |
| 12:13.09 | Cope | you can imagine they're not happy |
| 12:13.35 | murb | Cope: get client to got to nominet and make a manual transfer if they are not being coperative. |
| 12:14.00 | murb | Cope: might be worth phoning nominet as well to cover yourself. |
| 12:14.17 | Cope | murb: sire |
| 12:14.19 | Cope | sure |
| 12:15.13 | murb | http://www.nic.uk/MakingChangesToYourDomainName/ChangingYourRegistrationAgentisp/ |
| 12:16.14 | Cope | that's great |
| 12:16.17 | Cope | thanks murb |
| 12:16.25 | murb | hopefully you get the domain before they can detag it. |
| 12:16.33 | Cope | why what happens then? |
| 12:16.55 | murb | nothing they can do about it other than legal action against maplin for any breach of contract. |
| 12:17.05 | Cope | murb: maybe i don't understand |
| 12:17.15 | Cope | why is it a big deal to be de-tagged? |
| 12:17.27 | murb | Cope: detagged domains have their nameservers removed. |
| 12:17.38 | murb | Cope: PSI once accidently detagged ebay.co.uk... |
| 12:17.50 | murb | s/PSI/someone i can't rember don't sue me/ |
| 12:17.55 | Cope | murb: right... so the maplins.co.uk goes nowhere |
| 12:18.01 | murb | yeah. |
| 12:18.04 | Cope | but we can re-tag it? |
| 12:18.06 | murb | which you really don't want to happen. |
| 12:18.11 | murb | Cope: yep but it takes time. |
| 12:18.14 | Cope | but for a period of time, there would be no site |
| 12:18.20 | murb | yes. |
| 12:18.24 | Cope | ouch |
| 12:18.56 | murb | so find someone in your $company who knows your tag and try and get enegeris to do a release to your tag ininstead of a released to de-tagged. |
| 12:22.14 | Cope | who knows #your tag# ? |
| 12:22.51 | murb | Cope: well your tag yeah. |
| 12:23.02 | Cope | murb: how would i find that out? |
| 12:23.06 | murb | 'cos when you've got it transfer you'll want to change the nameservers ASAP |
| 12:23.19 | Cope | murb: i mean, i think we're authoritative for, eg, clsa.com |
| 12:23.23 | murb | Cope: tis your company... might be worth phoning nominet asking who they speak with. |
| 12:23.34 | murb | or have as their contact. |
| 12:23.38 | Cope | sure |
| 12:24.32 | murb | Cope: has to be a .uk domain to have a tag |
| 12:30.12 | Cope | murb: riight... so our us-based colleagues just don't understand uk tagging? |
| 12:31.20 | murb | Cope: it isn't relivant to non uk domains. |
| 12:31.49 | murb | tagging being a nominet thing and nominet only dealing in .uk domains etc. |
| 12:32.25 | Cope | mmmhmm |
| 12:33.06 | murb | apparently MCI WorldCom Ltd [Tag = UUNETPIPEX] |
| 12:33.16 | Cope | how did you find that out? |
| 12:33.23 | Cope | what what's digex (uk) |
| 12:33.30 | murb | Digex (UK) Limited [Tag = DIGEX] |
| 12:34.11 | Cope | how do you find that? |
| 12:35.02 | murb | whois digex.co.uk |
| 12:36.38 | *** join/#gllug AngelChild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 12:39.36 | murb | Cope: http://global.mci.com/uk/internet/access/dns/registration/ # maybe these people could help you? |
| 12:44.13 | Cope | murb: lol |
| 13:11.25 | Cope | murb: ok, so how does tagging actually make a difference? |
| 13:11.45 | Cope | murb: surely dns doesn't understand 'tagging'? isn't it just a paperwork exercise? |
| 13:12.14 | murb | http://www.nominet.org.uk/ref/detagged.html |
| 13:13.11 | murb | Cope: well DETAGGED is a magic tag that fucks things up. |
| 13:13.19 | murb | removing nameservers etc. |
| 13:14.44 | murb | so when you detag a domain nominet remove the NS records from the appriate dot.uk zone. |
| 13:21.17 | *** join/#gllug clyphox (n=clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:28.56 | Cope | murb: is there a way I can see what these tags do - practically? |
| 13:30.44 | murb | ok, what domain do you want to register? |
| 13:31.28 | murb | how about automaton-test-cope.co.uk ? |
| 13:32.11 | wethrin | Why do people complain about lack of information when the original poster says "I don't know much about this at all" |
| 13:32.47 | murb | so you send a pgp signed message to applications@nic.uk with a subject ot TAG domain request |
| 13:33.05 | murb | the pgp key is assciated with each tag btw. |
| 13:34.13 | Cope | right |
| 13:34.55 | murb | then first line of signed body operation: DOMAIN REQUEST\nkey: automaton-test-cope.co.uk\nfor: cope\ndns0: whatever.cope.co.uk\ndns1: whatever2.cope.co.uk\nreg-contact: cope\nreg-type: IND\nreg-addr: nodnol .... |
| 13:35.02 | murb | you get the idea. |
| 13:35.15 | Cope | righto |
| 13:35.21 | Cope | so what do nominet then do? |
| 13:35.33 | murb | http://www.nic.uk/TagHolders/UsingTheAutomaton/Introduction/ |
| 13:35.43 | murb | whatever you tell them tis all automated. |
| 13:35.58 | murb | however you can only do stuff to get new domains or to domain on your tag. |
| 13:36.18 | murb | if the domain is on someone elses you just have to ask the to auto-co@nic.uk -s TAGHOLDER RELEASE |
| 13:36.40 | Cope | sure |
| 13:36.49 | Cope | now how does nominet know that I really am DIGEX? |
| 13:37.14 | morsing | beer |
| 13:37.32 | murb | body: operation: release\nkey: mydomaingiveitbackscumbags.co.uk\nips-key: DIGEX |
| 13:37.40 | murb | Cope: because you have their pgp key. |
| 13:37.50 | murb | and you signed the request. |
| 13:38.04 | Cope | murb: lol; the last person who had anything to do with nominet at digex left 3 years ago |
| 13:39.10 | murb | Cope: who pays the nominet invoices and renews the domains? |
| 13:39.20 | murb | (because nominet domains do not auto renew anymore) |
| 13:39.29 | Cope | murb: its a good question |
| 13:39.39 | Cope | murb: i phoned nominet and they confirmed we're still current |
| 13:40.00 | murb | then you need to get a new key. |
| 13:40.58 | murb | or find the old one. |
| 13:41.05 | murb | do you have an interanet with company informatino. |
| 13:53.55 | wethrin | with a very hot cup of tea |
| 13:54.18 | morsing | What would cause a system to drop every other IP packet? |
| 13:54.32 | Cope | what can I do? this is a remote machine - I can't wiggle the mouse! |
| 13:56.26 | wethrin | woo |
| 13:56.33 | morsing | Reading this book will help you design your server partition scheme from scratch. |
| 13:57.42 | murb | morsing: hmm exciting! |
| 13:57.46 | wethrin | heh |
| 13:58.48 | *** join/#gllug George (i=george@kde/developer/gwright) |
| 14:02.22 | mozrat | George: ! |
| 14:04.58 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (n=mikejw@grovepark-firewall.supporting-role.net) |
| 14:05.29 | mikejw | lo |
| 14:05.36 | AngelChild | ello |
| 14:05.41 | mozrat | allo |
| 14:05.46 | mozrat | dammit - too late |
| 14:06.00 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (n=mikejw@grovepark-firewall.supporting-role.net) |
| 14:06.26 | mikejw | AngelChild: hi :) |
| 14:06.39 | AngelChild | :) |
| 14:06.41 | George | mozrat: hey |
| 14:06.52 | mozrat | *hello* |
| 14:07.01 | George | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:07.28 | George | ibot: 42*7 |
| 14:07.29 | ibot | 294 |
| 14:07.31 | AngelChild | 15:07:31 up yours |
| 14:07.58 | mozrat | *sigh* |
| 14:08.02 | mozrat | George.... |
| 14:08.14 | George | what? |
| 14:08.15 | AngelChild | ibot AngelChild? |
| 14:08.17 | ibot | you are probably the object of Georges desire, or a lady of mystery |
| 14:08.21 | AngelChild | okay |
| 14:08.34 | AngelChild | my description contains bad grammar :( |
| 14:08.39 | George | wtf |
| 14:08.50 | George | I do not desire AngelChild |
| 14:08.54 | mozrat | ibot AngelChild also has the name of a rabbit |
| 14:08.59 | AngelChild | O.o |
| 14:09.08 | George | ibot angelchild |
| 14:09.10 | ibot | [angelchild] the object of Georges desire, or a lady of mystery |
| 14:09.22 | George | ibot: no, angelchild is the object of george's hatred |
| 14:09.24 | ibot | okay, George |
| 14:09.28 | George | ibot: angelchild |
| 14:09.29 | ibot | [angelchild] the object of george's hatred |
| 14:09.31 | George | excellent. |
| 14:09.38 | AngelChild | ibot: George |
| 14:09.39 | ibot | it has been said that george is gwright@kde.org and a KDE devel |
| 14:09.41 | mozrat | *sigh* |
| 14:10.16 | AngelChild | ibot: George is an evil evil boy who thinks he has a large ePenis |
| 14:10.18 | ibot | cannot alter locked factoids, AngelChild |
| 14:10.21 | AngelChild | lame |
| 14:10.35 | mozrat | rofl |
| 14:10.36 | AngelChild | ibot: I like cheese |
| 14:10.37 | ibot | You like cheese? |
| 14:10.43 | AngelChild | ibot: yes, I do :) |
| 14:10.45 | ibot | You do :)? |
| 14:10.49 | AngelChild | ibot: indeed |
| 14:10.51 | ibot | Yes, indeed! angelchild is da man. |
| 14:10.53 | George | why the hell do I think I have a large ePenis? |
| 14:10.54 | AngelChild | O.o |
| 14:10.58 | George | besides, everyone knows I'm adorable |
| 14:11.02 | AngelChild | I said you thought you did :P |
| 14:11.21 | George | I'm adorable |
| 14:11.34 | mikejw | ibot: lo |
| 14:11.35 | ibot | lo |
| 14:11.43 | George | ibot: whaleslap AngelChild |
| 14:11.44 | ibot | ACTION slaps AngelChild upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 14:12.01 | George | ibot: moonslap AngelChild |
| 14:12.03 | ibot | ACTION nabs the moon and broadsides AngelChild with the sea of tranquility |
| 14:12.10 | AngelChild | ibot: stop George being mean to me |
| 14:12.12 | ibot | ACTION leaps to his feet and stops George being mean to me |
| 14:12.19 | AngelChild | hrm |
| 14:12.22 | mikejw | ibot: ibot slap |
| 14:12.30 | mikejw | ibot: ibotslap mikejw |
| 14:12.35 | George | ibot: beat up AngelChild |
| 14:12.36 | ibot | ACTION beats up AngelChild with a large stick. |
| 14:12.51 | AngelChild | ibot: AngelChild is a rabbit |
| 14:12.53 | ibot | ...but angelchild is already something else... |
| 14:13.00 | AngelChild | ibot: No, AngelChild is a rabbit |
| 14:13.01 | ibot | AngelChild: okay |
| 14:13.16 | George | my factoid is forever locked :D |
| 14:13.23 | George | ibot: I love you |
| 14:13.25 | ibot | You love you? |
| 14:13.27 | AngelChild | ^ |
| 14:13.32 | AngelChild | I rest my case |
| 14:14.05 | AngelChild | ibot: Georgie is an evil evil boy who thinks he has a large ePenis |
| 14:14.07 | ibot | okay, AngelChild |
| 14:14.08 | George | ibot: no, AngelChild is <action> runs away in terrible fear |
| 14:14.09 | ibot | okay, George |
| 14:14.12 | George | ibot: AngelChild |
| 14:14.13 | ibot | ACTION runs away in terrible fear |
| 14:14.25 | George | ibot: forget georgie |
| 14:14.25 | ibot | George: i forgot georgie |
| 14:14.35 | mozrat | hehehehe |
| 14:14.56 | George | AngelChild: what? |
| 14:15.09 | George | mozrat: wouldn't you agree that I'm adorable? |
| 14:15.13 | George | AngelChild: dude. |
| 14:15.23 | mozrat | George, Yes. |
| 14:15.27 | AngelChild | sweet? |
| 14:15.37 | George | AngelChild: a certain friend of mine isn't going to be pleased about that |
| 14:15.46 | AngelChild | mozrat? |
| 14:15.55 | mozrat | AngelChild: yes? |
| 14:16.11 | AngelChild | why does he hate me? |
| 14:16.52 | mozrat | He doesn't hate you... he is trying to attract your attention because he is too emotionally immature to be able to tell you that in fact he loves you |
| 14:17.00 | AngelChild | oh |
| 14:17.10 | AngelChild | men are weird :| |
| 14:17.23 | mozrat | Yes, but what about George |
| 14:17.41 | George | mozrat: erm. |
| 14:17.43 | AngelChild | he's weirderer |
| 14:17.47 | George | mozrat: I do not love AngelChild |
| 14:18.00 | mozrat | ibot George also loves AngelChild |
| 14:18.05 | George | no I don't |
| 14:18.10 | George | that is reserved for someone else |
| 14:18.13 | AngelChild | ibot George |
| 14:18.14 | ibot | i heard george is gwright@kde.org and a KDE devel |
| 14:18.19 | AngelChild | no-one loves me :( |
| 14:19.19 | George | mozrat: my factoid is locked |
| 14:19.52 | George | what?! |
| 14:20.03 | George | just because I don't have feelings for AngelChild doesn't mean I should be swatted |
| 14:20.42 | mozrat | Hmmmmm |
| 14:20.54 | wethrin | George: You should be swatted anyway |
| 14:21.08 | mozrat | ibot swat George |
| 14:21.25 | mozrat | I think ibot is sleeping after information overload |
| 14:24.40 | George | wethrin: why? |
| 14:25.08 | wethrin | why not? |
| 14:25.18 | George | because I'm adorable |
| 14:25.19 | George | duh |
| 14:26.08 | wethrin | you're not |
| 14:26.13 | George | yes I am! |
| 14:26.23 | wethrin | you're posh |
| 14:26.30 | George | no I'm not! |
| 14:26.42 | wethrin | you are |
| 14:26.48 | George | no I'm not! |
| 14:27.00 | mozrat | George, we can't understand you |
| 14:27.03 | George | that said |
| 14:27.06 | mozrat | take the spoon out of your mouth |
| 14:27.13 | George | some public school person did describe my accent as posh >.< |
| 14:28.47 | murb | George: come the revolution etc. |
| 14:33.00 | morsing | resource_type=sys,type_model_serial_num=9110-510*1051AED,sp=primary,ipaddr=172.1 |
| 14:39.53 | *** join/#gllug rhowe (i=rhowe@xiao.siksai.co.uk) |
| 14:59.10 | mozrat | foo |
| 15:36.52 | *** join/#gllug stephanb (n=stef@88-110-1-54.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 15:39.08 | stephanb | where can i find a newsgroup about VoiP and NAT routers ? |
| 15:39.16 | George | dunno |
| 15:39.18 | stephanb | or an irc channel ? |
| 15:39.20 | George | solwise might have something |
| 15:39.28 | mozrat | stephanb: the asterisk mailing list is very active |
| 15:39.32 | mozrat | I would try there |
| 15:40.33 | stephanb | well im gonna ask them about gnomemeeting/netmeeting behind a Dlink router?? nothing to do with asterisk |
| 15:41.40 | wethrin | H.323 doesn't play well with NAT |
| 15:42.35 | mozrat | stephanb: If you mark if offtopic I bet someone will know |
| 15:43.07 | murb | mozrat: s/active/full of offtopic crap/ and people getting upset about it? |
| 15:43.38 | rhowe | stephanb: Netmeeting doesn't NAT |
| 15:43.45 | mozrat | murb? It's fairly ontopic last I checked... I have a digest subscription to it |
| 15:43.47 | rhowe | stephanb: That's essentially it. Read the Gnomemeeting FAQ |
| 15:44.04 | rhowe | s/NAT/handle &/ |
| 15:45.15 | murb | last time i looked someone was writting a proper conntrack_h323 |
| 15:45.52 | murb | might be in patch-o-matic-ng |
| 15:46.12 | rhowe | hm.. I think I saw one |
| 15:46.17 | rhowe | Not sure it patched cleanly though |
| 15:46.27 | stephanb | rhowe: why do router manufacturers than claim that their router works with "VoiP" or "Netmeeting" ? |
| 15:46.47 | murb | rhowe: there was the old one that worked by searching the patches for IP like strings and changing them, this isn't that. |
| 15:46.57 | mozrat | Stupid redhat |
| 15:47.10 | mozrat | First of all their email address for the EMEA office is mea@redhat.com |
| 15:47.32 | mozrat | which bounces anyway and emea@redhat.com also bounces |
| 15:47.38 | stephanb | rhowe: btw I read from a *cisco* document about H323: a. try not to be behind a router :-D |
| 15:47.48 | stephanb | rhowe: b. use IP tunnelling |
| 15:48.01 | murb | stephanb: c: conf t |
| 15:48.15 | stephanb | I am tempted to try OPenVPN |
| 15:48.22 | stephanb | murb: conf t ??? |
| 15:48.28 | rhowe | stephanb: Well Gnomemeeting is at least a bit more NAT-friendly than Netmeeting (in that it tries to stick to a known range of ports) |
| 15:48.30 | murb | gatekeeper |
| 15:48.42 | murb | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:49.27 | stephanb | murb: unfortunately my correspondant is on Windoze... so i'm still waiting for a Win32 port of Gnomemeeting |
| 15:49.54 | murb | stephanb: can't they use netmeeting? |
| 15:50.02 | stephanb | murb: or try Gnomemeeting+SIP with MS Portrait |
| 15:50.17 | murb | what is wrong with kphone? |
| 15:50.23 | murb | as a sip client i mean or asterisk? |
| 15:50.53 | rhowe | stephanb: Hm, I thought there was a win32 port of GM, just without video support |
| 15:51.00 | stephanb | murb: shure but is seems that netmeeting <- internet -> Dlink router <- LAN -> Gnomemeeting dont work too well :-( |
| 15:51.02 | rhowe | stephanb: Openphone works well, although the UI is horrid |
| 15:51.09 | rhowe | stephanb: Not sure if opal's out yet |
| 15:51.28 | stephanb | ok guys I am after a video solution! |
| 15:51.30 | murb | stephanb: i thought you said there was a cisco ? |
| 15:51.35 | rhowe | stephanb: Openphone works well |
| 15:51.37 | murb | couldn't you just run a local gatekeeper? |
| 15:51.57 | rhowe | Openphone would be lovely if it could query an ILS server, or if there was a way to initiate calls via callto:// URLS |
| 15:52.17 | murb | asterisk is a pretty good ip phone client. |
| 15:52.24 | murb | and there is a win32 port. |
| 15:52.28 | stephanb | local gatekeeper: doesn't that mean that I build a linux box with a H323 gatekeeper to *replace* the Dlink router ? |
| 15:52.32 | rhowe | (neither of which I could get it to do without getting far too intimate with the source and setting up a win32 build environment) |
| 15:53.55 | wethrin | GET A BETTER UI |
| 15:54.03 | murb | wethrin: upgrade to the new version. |
| 15:54.10 | murb | or install photoshop. |
| 15:54.17 | wethrin | murb: Photoshop costs ��� |
| 15:54.17 | stephanb | with my limited understanding I thought the best solution was to put OPenVPN on both machines |
| 15:54.25 | murb | wethrin: not if you are a student. |
| 15:54.27 | wethrin | And I've just downloaded the newest stable release for Windows |
| 15:54.33 | murb | wethrin: my sister got it free with her ibook. |
| 15:54.38 | wethrin | Hmm..... |
| 15:54.45 | murb | but then the ibook was also free. |
| 15:54.58 | wethrin | ah |
| 16:23.42 | George | wibble |
| 16:24.15 | wethrin | wobble |
| 16:27.30 | wethrin | what? |
| 16:27.47 | George | dunno |
| 16:27.56 | George | felt like poking the wobbling mass known as wethrin |
| 16:28.11 | wethrin | Ahh |
| 16:28.12 | wethrin | okay |
| 16:44.06 | *** part/#gllug stephanb (n=stef@88-110-1-54.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 17:29.59 | *** join/#gllug leslaptop (n=les@80-192-134-31.cable.ubr06.wiga.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:54.33 | *** join/#gllug Blapto (n=Martin@brookscity.plus.com) |
| 19:22.47 | *** join/#gllug AngelChild (n=Catalyst@jamesmorse.plus.com) |
| 19:24.24 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (n=richardc@ipvpn095205.netvigator.com) |
| 19:24.57 | Leeds | morning all! |
| 19:27.47 | AngelChild | hiyo |
| 19:30.25 | Leeds | dinner with cousins turned into dinner with cousins and friends-in-from-out-of-town, followed by drinking much vodka in a vodka bar, then much schnapps in a German bar, then beer in a very seedy bar full of whores... |
| 19:30.31 | Leeds | followed by falafel :-) |
| 19:31.28 | AngelChild | :o |
| 19:31.31 | AngelChild | falafel? |
| 19:32.46 | Leeds | yup |
| 19:33.06 | AngelChild | what's falafel? |
| 19:33.25 | Leeds | really? never eaten it? |
| 19:33.30 | AngelChild | google states its some kind of chickpea thing |
| 19:33.40 | AngelChild | but i wondered if it was a euphemism :x |
| 19:34.04 | Leeds | ever come across humous? |
| 19:34.36 | Leeds | if I said I had it in a kebab shop, would that help you? :-) |
| 19:34.41 | AngelChild | oh right :D |
| 19:36.26 | Leeds | and now I feel the need for toast |
| 19:37.11 | Leeds | bonus feature of the night: cousin I was out with is also my boss... so he knows exactly how I'll feel in the morning and why :-) |
| 19:38.09 | AngelChild | :) |
| 19:52.48 | Leeds | mmm... toast |
| 19:57.19 | clyphox | head-pains ? |
| 19:57.42 | clyphox | toast+cheese > toast+toast |
| 20:32.59 | clyphox | I want a TCP/IP enabled vacum cleaner! |
| 21:15.30 | mozrat | evening |
| 21:42.08 | *** join/#gllug Blissex (i=pcg@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:44.02 | mozrat | hello Blissex |
| 21:44.12 | Blissex | Hi everybody! |
| 21:44.48 | mozrat | Hi! |
| 21:46.52 | AngelChild | heyo |
| 21:48.04 | AngelChild | do you do love life ones? |
| 21:48.22 | AngelChild | if linux could solve my lovelife then I'd be rather impressed |
| 21:50.12 | mozrat | Linux can solve your love life |
| 21:50.18 | mozrat | it allows you to touch |
| 21:50.19 | mozrat | grep |
| 21:50.20 | mozrat | fsck |
| 21:50.34 | z00dax | and finger ? |
| 21:50.36 | AngelChild | man mount, etc I know |
| 21:50.38 | mozrat | yes! |
| 21:52.05 | AngelChild | well |
| 21:52.09 | AngelChild | not really :( |
| 21:52.14 | mozrat | :( |
| 21:52.17 | George | moo |
| 21:52.22 | AngelChild | finger is kinda umimpressive from a pleasurable point of view |
| 21:52.24 | AngelChild | meow |
| 21:53.07 | z00dax | Blissex, I have a problem that could use a solution ( and some python hackery if you are upto that ) |
| 21:53.12 | Blissex | AngelChild: I can do ''agony aunt'' stuff, but people find me too realistc for that. |
| 21:53.22 | AngelChild | heh :) |
| 21:53.25 | Blissex | z00dax: try -- I am not really a Python guy though. |
| 21:53.33 | mozrat | z00dax: what is it? |
| 21:53.39 | z00dax | Blissex, how about rpm ? |
| 21:54.02 | mozrat | There you go AngelChild -- Linux also provides you with a Python! |
| 21:54.05 | mozrat | *snigger* |
| 21:54.05 | Blissex | z00dax: can do RPM. But the convention on IRC is to ask questions anonymously to the channel and then hope someone knows about it. |
| 21:54.11 | z00dax | it takes over 2 hrs to get the entire repository metadata for rpmforge.net and centos.karan.org repo's to be generated |
| 21:54.20 | AngelChild | mozrat: yeah, but it's too flexible :P |
| 21:54.45 | mozrat | *whooo* Adult themed GLLUG tonight! |
| 21:54.47 | z00dax | be nice if I didnt also need to have the entire rpm tree sitting around under the metadata creating process ( were talking 180 gigs of stuff ) |
| 21:55.09 | AngelChild | o.o |
| 21:55.31 | z00dax | {o^o} |
| 21:55.35 | mozrat | ewh |
| 21:56.23 | Blissex | z00dax: so the problem is: you want to scan a really large number of RPMs and build the RPM db from it. How to make it fast? How to use just the metadata? |
| 21:56.31 | Blissex | z00dax: is that it? |
| 21:57.17 | z00dax | Blissex, the repository hosts metadata for apt-rpm, yum2 and rpm-md formats ( so that people can use those pkg managers to download + install stuff ) |
| 21:57.43 | z00dax | the problem is, I also need to have all the rpms around to do this |
| 21:57.55 | Blissex | z00dax: so basically the problem is: I have lots of RPMs, and I want to build various dependency manager indexes for them. |
| 21:58.05 | z00dax | be nice if I could just drop in 1 rpm, and metadata could be created for just this 1 pkg and appended into the rest already online |
| 21:58.31 | z00dax | Blissex, humm.. look at it this way, adding 1 pkg to the mix should not mean having to rebuild for the entire lot |
| 21:58.39 | z00dax | s/rebuild/rebuild metadata/ |
| 21:59.21 | Blissex | z00dax: yes, ideally... |
| 21:59.24 | z00dax | am i making any sense ? |
| 21:59.29 | Blissex | z00dax: a bit more :-). |
| 21:59.32 | z00dax | :) |
| 22:00.47 | Blissex | z00dax: so you don't want to build an RPM db for _installed_ packages, but a repository managed db for _uninstalled_ packages, and you want to build several types thereof... |
| 22:01.14 | Blissex | z00dax: please object if my paraphrases are incorrect. Or please state the problem clearly :-) |
| 22:01.40 | z00dax | Blissex, humm... thats mostly accurate |
| 22:02.26 | Blissex | z00dax: so ideally you want two different operations: bulk build and incremental add. |
| 22:02.36 | Blissex | z00dax: that are: |
| 22:02.41 | z00dax | bulk build i can live without |
| 22:03.15 | Blissex | z00dax: with bulk build, something scans all packages, extracts just the metadata, puts it into a file and then the different repo indexes are built out of the metadata only file. |
| 22:03.42 | Blissex | z00dax: incremental is: once the different indexes are built, just update them as packages are added to the repo. |
| 22:03.45 | Blissex | z00dax: OK? |
| 22:03.53 | z00dax | very much so |
| 22:04.00 | Blissex | z00dax: because you do need bulk build if the indexes get damaged for example. |
| 22:04.42 | z00dax | there is one thing though.... there is no 'something that extracts metadata'... the repo index's you refer to _is_ the metadata |
| 22:04.57 | z00dax | eg. look at this : http://linux.duke.edu/projects/metadata/ |
| 22:06.53 | mozrat | It's quite nice |
| 22:07.09 | Blissex | z00dax: man thats not quite right. |
| 22:07.18 | z00dax | isnt Mambo deprecated in favour of Joomla or Joombla or something ? |
| 22:07.27 | mozrat | z00dax: I think so yes |
| 22:07.49 | Blissex | z00dax: the metadata in an RPM is one thing, the metadata in a repo index is built from the metadata into the RPM. |
| 22:08.16 | z00dax | Blissex, I agree |
| 22:09.06 | Blissex | z00dax: now getting the metadata out of an RPM is not hard. At worst it can be done using 'rpm -qf' itself, with a suitable format string. |
| 22:09.48 | Blissex | z00dax: then one would need to massage that into something suitable for APT4RPM, Yum2 or RPM-MD. Uhm. |
| 22:10.01 | z00dax | Blissex, indeed |
| 22:10.29 | z00dax | however, why not make it a bit easier, and just let apps like createrepo extract and do their bit ? |
| 22:10.49 | z00dax | that way only need glue to move 'new incremental set' upto 'master set' of info |
| 22:10.54 | Blissex | z00dax: BTW, a detail: usually one uses APT-RPM to indicate the _client_ side (that is, 'apt-get' and company) while APT4RPM is the repo side things. |
| 22:12.34 | Blissex | z00dax: I suspect the ''incremental'' bit is going to be hard, because it is not straightforward to add/delete stuff say to an APT 'Packages' file. |
| 22:12.55 | z00dax | exactly :) |
| 22:15.32 | Blissex | z00dax: the best I can imagine is: some tool e.g. written in Perl/Python keeps a berkeley DB database of all RPMs, and from that generates everything else. |
| 22:15.49 | Blissex | z00dax: that tool could be 'rpm' itself! |
| 22:16.38 | Blissex | z00dax: IIRC (and I am pretty sure that I do) 'rpm' has an option that says ''add to the RPM db just the metadata, dont actually extract the files''. |
| 22:16.50 | Blissex | z00dax: but then how to handle conflicts? Nah. |
| 22:17.03 | z00dax | and 7 different architectures |
| 22:17.41 | z00dax | rpm 4.4+ does sqlite backend for the rpmdb |
| 22:18.13 | z00dax | getting pkgs into a rpmdb Packages format is easy, how do you propose getting it from there into the repo index's ? |
| 22:18.17 | Blissex | z00dax: ah I had not noticed that. Not a bad idea. |
| 22:18.21 | z00dax | ( as in incremental update at that ) |
| 22:18.56 | Blissex | z00dax: well, the idea is that the big deal is scanning all the RPMs several times to build the repo indexes. |
| 22:19.26 | Blissex | z00dax: actually building the repo indexes even from scratch every time from a central metadata index is going to be quick. |
| 22:19.42 | Blissex | z00dax: now, the interesting question that would require some googling is: |
| 22:20.17 | Blissex | z00dax: is there an existing repo index format that is essentially equivalent to an 'rpmdb'? In that case it could be the pivot of the whole mess. |
| 22:21.06 | z00dax | rpm-md uses xml gzip'd |
| 22:21.14 | z00dax | thats the one format I care of the most |
| 22:21.53 | Blissex | z00dax: yes, but it not nowhere as good as a good old DB. |
| 22:22.17 | Blissex | z00dax: however, Berkeley DB exists also in an XML DB version. Uhm. |
| 22:25.25 | z00dax | Blissex, the end result however is rpm-md's xml format, changing that format is not an option really :) |
| 22:25.35 | z00dax | I have no desire to rewrite a dep-resolver + pkg manager |
| 22:25.36 | Blissex | z00dax: well, you need all three formats. |
| 22:25.51 | z00dax | true, but the one i care for the most is rpm-md |
| 22:26.18 | z00dax | almost 84% of traffic is now in that format ( 12% in yum2's .hdr format the rest apt ) |
| 22:27.23 | Blissex | z00dax: well, what I would do is: write in Python or Perl a nice bulk or one-package metadata extractor, and extract to an SQLlite or berkeleyDB database indexed by '.rpm' file path name |
| 22:28.13 | Blissex | z00dax: then write a second nice util that scans all records in the database and turns each record into XML or a Packages file. Should be pretty easy. |
| 22:28.21 | Blissex | z00dax: almost trivial. |
| 22:28.48 | z00dax | Blissex, feel free to go for it. |
| 22:29.19 | z00dax | the rpm-md format is well documented at that link, a generator is also supplied ( createrepo ) in python |
| 22:29.44 | Blissex | z00dax: alternative: use the 'Packages' file and convert them to either Yum2 or RPM-MD XML formats. But then you lose incremental, it is rather hard to do incremental without a DB. |
| 22:30.21 | Blissex | z00dax: or viceversa... |
| 22:30.34 | Blissex | z00dax: as a temporary measure there is a little shortcut! |
| 22:31.18 | Blissex | z00dax: I would suspect that it is friggingly easy to do two XSLT stylesheets: one to conver the RPM-MD XML to the Yum2 XML, and one to convert it to 'Packages'. |
| 22:31.56 | z00dax | yum2 does not use xml, it has .hdr files, once per pkg and one overall headers file |
| 22:31.57 | Blissex | z00dax: this would at least mean that only the RPM-MD scan needs to be done, the two other repo file formats can then converted from it. |
| 22:32.27 | Blissex | z00dax: Oops, I thought it did. Ah on the client sisde perhaps. |
| 22:32.57 | Blissex | z00dax: But XSLT can surely convert an XML.gz to lots of text files anyhow. Are the '.hdr' text files? |
| 22:35.50 | z00dax | Blissex, yup, let me find you a link to look at |
| 22:36.05 | Blissex | z00dax: I'd have to google a bit to piece together what's out there. But I am a bit busy on some other channels, so heavily timesharing. |
| 22:36.29 | z00dax | http://mirror.centos.org/centos/4/os/i386/headers/ <-- thats a repo index for yum2 |
| 22:36.33 | z00dax | hey Cope |
| 22:36.51 | z00dax | http://mirror.centos.org/centos/4/os/i386/headers/header.info <-- thats the master file |
| 22:37.10 | Cope | hi z00dax |
| 22:37.35 | z00dax | http://mirror.centos.org/centos/4/os/i386/repodata/ <-- contains rpm-md style index for the same set of rpms |
| 22:38.24 | z00dax | Cope, here is something for you : http://beta.centos.org/centos/4.2beta/isos/sparc/ |
| 22:38.45 | Cope | nice one :) |
| 22:39.04 | z00dax | its got a much patched kernel in there - so not truly EL style ( yet ) |
| 22:39.17 | Cope | good work though! |
| 22:39.29 | Cope | did you get spot and the gang to help? |
| 22:39.41 | George | WURBLE |
| 22:39.43 | z00dax | they have been looking for a functional installer, we have one! |
| 22:39.49 | Cope | nice |
| 22:39.56 | z00dax | so no reason why aurora and us cant work together on stuff. |
| 22:40.03 | Cope | yeah absolutely |
| 22:40.33 | z00dax | from what I can tell there should be a FC6/sparc release along with the other arch's and thats what aurora want to migrate into ( transmorgify ? ) |
| 22:40.43 | Cope | oh |
| 22:41.20 | z00dax | so while we could build into a 'stable' and 'here for 7 years', they would most likely move to follow FCore |
| 22:41.34 | Cope | yeah that works nicely |
| 22:41.37 | Cope | i like that |
| 22:42.29 | z00dax | plus, we dont have their kind of (a) skill and (b) number of people and (c) system and resources |
| 22:42.37 | z00dax | so having them working on 'upstream' code suits us fine :) |
| 22:42.46 | Cope | yeah absolutely |
| 22:43.32 | Cope | beta-tester cope :-) |
| 22:44.06 | z00dax | Cope, DRI + Xorg dont like each other much ( so far ) and someone reported issues with the esp controller, apart from that - there have been a few thumbs up, it works |
| 22:44.21 | Cope | great |
| 22:46.20 | Blissex | z00dax: the Yum2 'header.info' is text, but the '.hdr' files are binary... |
| 22:46.54 | Blissex | z00dax: however, given that there is one per package, it is easy to do incremental with it. |
| 22:47.00 | Cope | 81 /home/sanelson$ firefox & |
| 22:47.00 | Cope | [1] 2950 |
| 22:47.01 | Cope | 83 /home/sanelson$ /usr/lib/firefox-1.0.6/run-mozilla.sh: line 159: 2975 Bus error "$prog" ${1+"$@"} |
| 22:47.04 | Cope | eww# |
| 22:47.44 | z00dax | bus error ? |
| 22:47.53 | Cope | apparently |
| 22:47.55 | z00dax | Blissex, i think you should be able to gunzip those .hdr files |
| 22:48.40 | Blissex | z00dax: I was looking at them with Konqueror and evidently the web server is not serving them with the right MIME type... Well, having a look with something else. |
| 22:49.19 | Cope | hmm, something broken here: |
| 22:49.20 | Cope | 99 /home/sanelson$ gaim |
| 22:49.21 | Cope | ksh: gaim: /usr/bin/gaim: cannot execute [Input/output error] |
| 22:51.02 | Blissex | z00dax: it is a '.gz', but the thing inside is a binary, looks like the header of the '.rpm' file. |
| 22:52.31 | Cope | could be a pickle.... |
| 22:53.17 | z00dax | Blissex, would we really need to mess with that ? we could just drop in the new .hdr files generated into the same dir and concat the new header.info into the master |
| 22:54.14 | Blissex | z00dax: well, the Yum2 format looks the best ''master'' format. Because it can do incremental. In effect, the 'headers' directory is a Berkeley DB or SQLlite equivalent. |
| 22:54.29 | z00dax | Blissex, yea |
| 22:54.34 | Blissex | Cope: I hope its not the case, but those things look like hw errors. |
| 22:55.05 | Cope | Blissex: /me suspects disk |
| 22:55.29 | Blissex | Cope: for the «[Input/output error]x it is almost certain. |
| 22:55.33 | z00dax | i need to get something to eat |
| 22:55.37 | Cope | Blissex: agreed |
| 22:55.38 | z00dax | bbiab |
| 22:56.08 | Blissex | Cope: the «Bus error» may be either bad memory or more likely a bad disc block being ''executed''. |
| 22:56.36 | Cope | Blissex: ext3-fs errors in the logs |
| 22:57.50 | Cope | oh well :) its only a disk |
| 23:01.10 | Cope | hmm |
| 23:02.03 | Blissex | Cope: it is often possible to recycle a disk by low-level '''formatting'' it, that rebuilds the sparing tables. |
| 23:02.45 | Cope | well, i'm not seeing the errors after taking the box down, and up again (just in case of memory randomness) |
| 23:03.06 | Cope | although firefox still isn't starting - but I see no i/o errors now... |
| 23:03.41 | Blissex | Cope: if there have been IO errors, some disc sectors will have been zeroed/remapped. Bad news indeed. |
| 23:03.52 | Blissex | Cope: I'd do a 'rpm -Va' just in case. |
| 23:04.17 | Cope | Blissex: yep, and strace complains of missing files; hosed fs :) |
| 23:04.49 | Cope | Blissex: nah, nothing lost; just rebuild with a new disk and restore from backup |
| 23:05.41 | Blissex | Cope: thats lucky, or perhaps good planning. I am a backup maniac. |
| 23:05.58 | Cope | we expect disks to fail |
| 23:06.08 | Cope | that's why we have raid, and why we do backups |
| 23:07.25 | Cope | right, gimme 2 tics while I down this box and reach for a new disk |
| 23:15.58 | Cope | z00dax: how old is 3.3? |
| 23:25.18 | z00dax | Cope, 3.6 is about to be released... |
| 23:25.23 | z00dax | 3.3 sounds Dec 2004 or so |
| 23:25.34 | Cope | can i yum ---> 3.6? |
| 23:25.39 | z00dax | there would be a fair few updates to a machine that you install 3.3 on |
| 23:25.40 | z00dax | yea |
| 23:25.43 | Cope | from a 3.3 install? |
| 23:26.06 | z00dax | yeah that would work fine. |
| 23:26.12 | Cope | great, I'll do that |
| 23:26.19 | Cope | saves me burning a 4 iso |
| 23:26.59 | Cope | plus i use 3 at work mostly, 4 is still in testing |
| 23:26.59 | z00dax | once you do the update, make sure you do a 'yum list' - and checkout the new pkgs added since |
| 23:26.59 | z00dax | 4 is still in testing :) its been out since Feb |
| 23:27.04 | z00dax | you must do a lot of testing |
| 23:27.07 | Cope | yeah i got the dvd |
| 23:27.12 | Cope | z00dax: umm, yes |
| 23:27.23 | Cope | we only just moved off solaris 8 |
| 23:27.29 | z00dax | ouch |
| 23:27.31 | Cope | we generally run on r-1 |
| 23:27.42 | Cope | or n-1 |
| 23:27.50 | Cope | or whateve ryou want to call it |
| 23:27.59 | z00dax | right. makes sense. |
| 23:28.00 | Cope | i don't have a singe 2.6 kernel in production |
| 23:28.06 | Cope | (!) |
| 23:28.11 | z00dax | as long as it does the job, you prolly get a more stable distro that way anyway |
| 23:28.28 | Cope | yeah, and performance is fine |
| 23:28.47 | z00dax | I am not sure if thats a bad thing, in some fringe cases - people have shown CentOS3 to perform better than CentOS4 |
| 23:29.08 | Cope | the real kicker in rhelv is lvm2 for me |
| 23:29.23 | Cope | 4, i mean |
| 23:29.26 | z00dax | lvm2 is cool :) |
| 23:29.56 | Cope | agk++ |
| 23:30.20 | z00dax | :) he was there at linuxworld, I managed to poke him about a few bugzilla's :) |
| 23:30.40 | z00dax | ok zzzzzzzz time |
| 23:30.52 | z00dax | Blissex, let me know if you come up with something |
| 23:30.53 | Cope | yeah i should sleep too |
| 23:30.57 | Cope | gotta be up at 6 |
| 23:31.06 | z00dax | ouch, yeah sleep b good |
| 23:31.10 | z00dax | nn |
| 23:31.14 | Cope | catch you tomorrow dude |
| 23:31.17 | Blissex | z00dax: Uh, I am thinking about it. I'll do some web searching tomorrow. |
| 23:31.31 | z00dax | Blissex, muchos gracias |
| 23:32.27 | Cope | z00dax: I might just engineer a netboot centos/sparc solution... |
| 23:32.36 | Cope | and have a play over the next week or so |