| 00:01.52 | Cope | SlayerXP: superb |
| 00:02.00 | Cope | upd2date --list |
| 00:02.04 | Cope | Segmentation fault. |
| 00:02.14 | SlayerXP | i see the problem |
| 00:02.28 | SlayerXP | :) |
| 00:02.33 | Cope | You're very predicatable, and most amusing :) |
| 00:02.46 | Cope | and probably right |
| 00:02.49 | SlayerXP | thanks, i think :) |
| 00:03.39 | SlayerXP | oh yet |
| 00:03.46 | SlayerXP | googlewhacktastic |
| 00:03.55 | SlayerXP | xyst phrenology |
| 00:04.43 | Cope | did you seen my one? |
| 00:04.48 | Cope | kerberos masticating |
| 00:04.58 | Leeds | mmm... tasty |
| 00:05.07 | SlayerXP | with chilli sauce? |
| 00:06.53 | highbury | dang! forgot to buy a trvelcard for tomorrow, now I'll have to buy an extra bus ticket, as well as a peak rate travelcard :-( |
| 00:07.18 | highbury | when will the Oyster card ever be useful!? |
| 00:08.16 | SlayerXP | highbury: |
| 00:08.16 | SlayerXP | http://www.playnicely.com/download/08LondonUnderground.mp3 |
| 00:15.18 | mz2 | i don't quite see justification to the tube price increases by the way... two of the four stations that i use daily are completely fucked up in the arse because of the refurbishing work they're doing (Russell Square, King's Cross) and then on top of this I get that nice 6 pound increase per month in my traveling costs... |
| 00:15.28 | mz2 | the new tube prices, that is |
| 00:16.38 | highbury | its the bus increase that mostly annoys me, increasing it from £1 to £1.20 not only is exhorbitant, it slows down the bus while the driver fiddles for change |
| 00:17.10 | highbury | + of course, I have to catch a bus to the place where I can buy a one-day travelcard |
| 00:18.36 | SlayerXP | i live in happy "don't use public transport" land |
| 00:18.36 | mz2 | i agree |
| 00:40.49 | JAV | http://www.e-ghost.deusto.es/docs/ballmerwindows.wmv |
| 01:03.46 | *** join/#gllug cikkolata (~cikkolata@lmfao.org.uk) |
| 01:20.23 | *** join/#gllug pawel_ (~pawel@client-82-13-45-203.brhm.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 01:59.17 | George | night |
| 02:02.37 | JAV | bye |
| 02:28.39 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@62.105.104.85) |
| 02:58.59 | *** join/#gllug ufo (ufo@kasztan.il.pw.edu.pl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:00.16 | *** join/#gllug JAV (~JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.pooles.rima-tde.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 07:06.14 | *** join/#gllug morsing (~morsing@morsing.plus.com) |
| 07:07.41 | morsing | morning |
| 07:39.09 | Leeds | morning |
| 07:41.29 | morsing | At work yet? |
| 07:41.48 | Leeds | heh... still in bed |
| 07:47.39 | Leeds | you? |
| 07:49.11 | morsing | At work :-( |
| 07:49.16 | morsing | Feared snow |
| 07:49.50 | Leeds | is there any? I've not seen outside yet... |
| 08:01.36 | morsing | Haven't seen any but the forecast was a bit vague |
| 08:11.02 | morsing | http://home19.inet.tele.dk/volvo/galleri02.htm |
| 08:12.42 | Leeds | ugh |
| 08:14.42 | Tarragon | Sometimes things can be so bad that they end up becoming cool. That car however is just wrong. Even changing from the yellow would not help. |
| 08:18.17 | *** join/#gllug mozrat-pl (~smorris@217.205.129.130) |
| 09:47.34 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (~Mart@burningchrome.demon.co.uk) |
| 09:59.22 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~rc112576@boron.eu.sun.com) |
| 10:11.46 | morsing | Leeds. At work now? |
| 10:19.55 | Leeds | yes |
| 10:21.53 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81-1-78-177.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 10:24.46 | Leeds | it's still not snowing |
| 10:25.23 | morsing | IDP has been declared bankrupt :-) |
| 10:25.38 | morsing | www.computerworld.dk |
| 10:25.55 | Leeds | who is (or was!) IDP? |
| 10:26.06 | *** join/#gllug wethrin (~dankolb@ipv6.eco.li) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:26.35 | morsing | First company I worked for. Managing director was a psychopath, technical director incompetent and the employees left as quickly as they came in |
| 10:26.45 | morsing | Welcome Wethrin |
| 10:26.55 | Leeds | ah |
| 11:24.21 | JAV | morning |
| 11:24.27 | morsing | morning |
| 11:25.01 | Leeds | hi |
| 11:25.15 | SlayerXP | # I want my, I want my, I want my Em Tee Vee |
| 11:26.12 | morsing | Volvo |
| 11:26.28 | morsing | Is there still a meeting on Saturday? |
| 11:27.25 | Leeds | yes, I think so |
| 11:27.39 | Leeds | that reminds me... |
| 11:34.26 | Leeds | what the fuck is going on in the US with all the 'decency' post-censorship? |
| 11:42.10 | morsing | Who's giving talks? |
| 11:43.26 | Leeds | good question |
| 11:43.39 | morsing | You? |
| 11:44.18 | Leeds | not planning to, but it could always happen... I may be giving a demo |
| 11:45.48 | morsing | On ripping DVD? |
| 11:46.25 | Leeds | not particularly, although I could do if there's demand... |
| 11:46.32 | Leeds | wouldn't be that much of a demo though :-) |
| 11:47.10 | morsing | There is |
| 11:47.16 | morsing | Demand that is |
| 11:47.50 | Leeds | okay... |
| 11:47.54 | morsing | :-) |
| 11:47.59 | Leeds | well, I can demo that on my laptop :-) |
| 11:48.21 | Leeds | now I've actually worked out how to do normal dvd playing in mplayer on OSX |
| 11:48.37 | morsing | Mmm... |
| 11:52.47 | Leeds | so, alright, I'll make sure I bring my laptop and a DVD or two |
| 11:57.11 | Leeds | hmmm... bloke from AA insurance said he'd call back by noon... |
| 12:50.08 | SlayerXP | oh dear |
| 13:11.45 | Cope | morningish |
| 13:29.11 | formi | ulo! |
| 13:29.42 | wethrin | Aroo |
| 13:30.46 | formi | i am trying to get the e-mail address of the admin of a .de domain, when i do a whois it returns nothing |
| 13:31.14 | formi | whois t-online.de |
| 13:31.15 | formi | domain: t-online.de |
| 13:31.15 | formi | status: connect |
| 13:31.24 | formi | and that is it |
| 13:38.07 | SlayerXP | get a better whois |
| 13:38.21 | SlayerXP | mute:~# whois --version |
| 13:38.21 | SlayerXP | Version 4.6.26. |
| 13:38.44 | SlayerXP | Email: hostmaster@t-online.net |
| 13:39.17 | formi | I tried a few different ones |
| 13:39.38 | SlayerXP | wethrin: well, yes |
| 13:39.40 | Cope | wethrin! |
| 13:39.43 | wethrin | Which I think is jwhois |
| 13:39.45 | wethrin | Cope! |
| 13:39.52 | Cope | Hello SlayerXP |
| 13:39.55 | SlayerXP | lo |
| 13:40.11 | Cope | greetings romfi |
| 13:45.46 | formi | Cope, learn to spell! |
| 13:46.51 | morsing | milk |
| 13:48.54 | Cope | porridge |
| 13:55.12 | Leeds | lunch! |
| 13:56.12 | formi | Yerba Mate |
| 13:56.18 | Leeds | ah |
| 14:01.18 | Leeds | "you need to implement right around the x-server of universe root under the user account in addition release you x " |
| 14:01.39 | Leeds | apparently... |
| 14:02.00 | wethrin | ....? |
| 14:02.08 | wethrin | Solaris installation instructions? |
| 14:04.54 | morsing | Mmm... AIX |
| 14:16.08 | Leeds | part of some instructions from someone telling how to configure X on Slackware - what they're saying is that you need to be root to do the config - I think |
| 14:26.23 | Cope | hrm |
| 14:26.35 | Leeds | right, that's a flight to Israel booked |
| 14:28.50 | Cope | right; that's a highlighter pen moved from one part of the desk where it was in the way of my arm resting, to another part where it just looks annoyingly yellow. |
| 14:29.09 | Leeds | Cope: are you trying to make a point? |
| 14:29.39 | morsing | Are you bored Cope? |
| 14:30.03 | Cope | Leeds: not really, just in that tired stage where one rants in a stream-of-consciousness way and writes lots of rubbish without any particular regard for whether its of any interest to anyone. |
| 14:30.24 | SlayerXP | that's 98% of IRC conversations, isn't it? |
| 14:31.27 | Cope | morsing: no, just very tired. Got some interesting stuff to do, but not much energy. |
| 14:32.27 | wethrin | Cope: Clearly you should come to FOSDEM to be refreshed with beer :) |
| 14:32.58 | wethrin | Belgian beer doesn't count :) |
| 14:33.08 | Cope | does it contain no alcohol? |
| 14:33.14 | Leeds | Cope: then you should come to be refreshed by being out the country |
| 14:33.20 | morsing | Wethrin: FOSDEM? |
| 14:33.22 | Cope | Leeds: indeed! |
| 14:33.34 | wethrin | Yes. That too |
| 14:33.36 | wethrin | morsing: FOSDEM |
| 14:33.47 | morsing | Wethrin: Accomodation |
| 14:34.06 | Cope | The only problem is that evil megalopoly have a) taken lots of money away from me and b) failed to pay me my overtime |
| 14:34.14 | Cope | not a good deal |
| 14:34.47 | Cope | to be fair the money they took away was money they accidentally gave to me before christmas; just the timing isn't ideal. |
| 14:35.22 | wethrin | morsing: Err. Yes. |
| 14:35.57 | morsing | Yes? |
| 14:36.50 | *** join/#gllug SlayerXP (~Mart@burningchrome.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:36.52 | wethrin | I haven't sorted anything yet |
| 14:37.05 | morsing | Train? |
| 14:38.03 | wethrin | Not booked, but I plan to take the 1043 Eurostar |
| 14:41.13 | *** join/#gllug SlayerCE (~Mart@burningchrome.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:48.48 | rhowe | When is fosdem? |
| 14:49.47 | wethrin | rhowe: Last weekend in February |
| 14:51.34 | wethrin | After all, the regulars who stay in the Youth Hostel are either not around or not coming |
| 14:51.39 | wethrin | Or going with the Debian lot |
| 14:52.13 | rhowe | wethrin: Hm, do tickets need purchasing for it? |
| 14:52.44 | wethrin | No |
| 14:52.52 | wethrin | But accommodation needs booking, and train tickets need purchasing |
| 14:53.02 | wethrin | Do you want to rough it in the Youth Hostel? |
| 14:57.14 | rhowe | Hm, will let you know next monday |
| 14:58.58 | rhowe | (payday) |
| 14:59.08 | rhowe | Still, probably yes :P |
| 15:00.11 | wethrin | Well, I'd like to book YHA by the end of the week |
| 15:00.40 | rhowe | Hm, well I need to think what I owe people :) |
| 15:03.40 | rhowe | I definately owe mum a few hundred quid for cash lent so I could go on holiday last minute :) |
| 15:03.54 | rhowe | Still, I managed to expense half of what I spent, which is pretty good going :) |
| 15:03.58 | wethrin | Good good :) |
| 15:15.51 | Leeds | I'm going to be on a later train |
| 15:16.10 | wethrin | HE'S ON THE TRAIN! |
| 15:16.27 | Leeds | got complex medical stuff to do that morning |
| 15:18.06 | morsing | milk |
| 15:18.13 | wethrin | morsing: YHA or hotel? |
| 15:19.07 | Leeds | and I'm still waiting to hear from work - I've made the point that the longer I wait, the more it will cost, whether I pay it or they do |
| 15:27.57 | morsing | wethrin: What's the YHA like? |
| 15:28.12 | wethrin | It's.....okay. It's 15EUR/night |
| 15:29.27 | morsing | Okay like sharing a room with 150 screaming drunk belgians? |
| 15:29.44 | wethrin | No |
| 15:29.56 | wethrin | Even when I shared a room with about 15 others, they were all quiet |
| 15:30.25 | wethrin | And last year we (Glluggers) got a room to ourselves |
| 15:30.25 | morsing | Good enough. YHA it is then |
| 15:30.31 | morsing | Leeds? |
| 15:31.25 | Leeds | morsing: yes? |
| 15:31.36 | *** join/#gllug rdancer_ (~r--t@rdancer.user) |
| 15:32.22 | Leeds | morsing: are you asking if I'm going to the hostel? |
| 15:32.34 | wethrin | Leeds is far too posh for that :) |
| 15:33.32 | Cope | Leeds stays in posh hotels, with rented women. |
| 15:33.53 | rhowe | Not purchased and discarded? |
| 15:34.23 | wethrin | No, that's just wasteful |
| 15:34.43 | Leeds | the answer is that I don't know... if work is paying, I'll be in the hotel - if I'm paying, I'll think about it |
| 15:34.51 | morsing | Leeds: I'm too posh for hostels too but thought it would be fun |
| 15:35.02 | Leeds | I think work *should* pay, and so does my manager, it's up to his management to actually approve it |
| 15:35.20 | Cope | mangers of managers who manage managers.... |
| 15:35.25 | Cope | ibot lart big companies |
| 15:35.39 | wethrin | :) |
| 15:35.48 | wethrin | Cope: But who managers the managers? |
| 15:36.23 | Cope | Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
| 15:36.33 | JAV | is there any danger of being "laptop-removed" in one of this hostels? |
| 15:36.39 | Cope | JAV: yes |
| 15:36.49 | morsing | :-( |
| 15:36.53 | wethrin | Cope: Does it need 'ipsos'? |
| 15:36.58 | Leeds | ibot very approriate |
| 15:37.02 | wethrin | JAV: You can lock up the laptops in cages |
| 15:37.07 | morsing | :-) |
| 15:37.29 | Cope | wethrin: not sure, maybe not. |
| 15:38.17 | JAV | wethrin: poor laptop :D |
| 15:38.20 | wethrin | "Who guards the guards", compared with "Who guards those who guard", isn't it? |
| 15:39.19 | Cope | wethrin: yeah; its juvenal isn't it? Go to the source. |
| 15:40.30 | Cope | Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Satires, VI.347-8) |
| 15:41.40 | wethrin | Ah, okay |
| 15:45.44 | wethrin | What's 3768 about? |
| 15:46.31 | Cope | vrrps |
| 15:47.58 | wethrin | *thhpt*? :) |
| 15:48.53 | Leeds | Cope: isn't that just a case of the IETF trying to think of protocols which sound like silly noises? |
| 15:52.49 | Cope | tired even |
| 16:01.13 | morsing | *sigh* |
| 16:01.26 | wethrin | sigh? |
| 16:03.30 | morsing | People at work |
| 16:03.38 | morsing | Where do I find the perfect job? |
| 16:04.06 | wethrin | Ah. There was one posted to the Gllug Admin list, but I think I've deleted it |
| 16:04.26 | JAV | do it exist? |
| 16:07.46 | rdancer | is there a bot that would give rfc summaries? |
| 16:07.53 | rdancer | evening, ppl |
| 16:32.21 | morsing | wethrin: AIX? |
| 16:33.02 | Leeds | rdancer: I'm sure ibot could if you taught him how |
| 16:33.36 | wethrin | AIX? |
| 16:34.14 | Cope | en provence? |
| 16:50.48 | Cope | what do you put in a card for your old boss who you never really liked, to say goodbye? |
| 16:51.36 | Leeds | ding dong the witch is dead? |
| 16:51.52 | Leeds | I suggest platitudes - they're cheap and easy |
| 16:53.44 | *** join/#gllug mz2 (~mz@81-1-78-177.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 16:54.00 | rdancer | Leeds: hmm |
| 16:57.42 | Cope | Leeds: platitudes are good; any suggestions? |
| 16:57.54 | Cope | we already have: all the best; good luck; best wishes etc |
| 16:58.30 | Leeds | thanks is always good without specifying what for ("for everything" if you want to get really vague) |
| 16:58.44 | Cope | mmm |
| 17:02.06 | rdancer | what about this? |
| 17:02.12 | rdancer | ibot: rope dancer |
| 17:02.13 | ibot | Behold, I bring you the Superman! He is that lightning, he is that madness! |
| 17:02.29 | Leeds | rdancer: well, it's not an rfc, is it? :-) |
| 17:02.43 | rdancer | Leeds: no, it's Zarathustra |
| 17:03.49 | rdancer | friedrich nietzsche makes for terrible good-bye quotes imo 8-) |
| 17:04.44 | rdancer | heh, oom killed my enlightenment 8-( |
| 17:21.16 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (1001@81-178-115-220.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 17:41.13 | morsing | milk |
| 17:44.46 | rdancer | < SayItsMe> got a SPARC machine and now I want to connect to it, i dont know what IP |
| 17:45.22 | rdancer | could he somehow use ARP broadcast to an ethernet broadcast address? |
| 17:48.50 | Leeds | I'd use tcpdump and look for it trying to talk on the network, I think |
| 17:49.08 | Leeds | the correct answer, of course, is "put a head on it and run ifconfig" |
| 17:49.16 | mikejw | hi guys |
| 17:49.27 | Leeds | evening mikejw |
| 17:49.37 | mikejw | :D |
| 17:50.05 | mikejw | I'm finally getting some kind of backup regime established between my two machines |
| 17:50.45 | rdancer | the problem is, if it doesn't talk? |
| 17:50.45 | rdancer | how to elicit some communication, 'tis the question |
| 17:50.51 | rdancer | the mac address is written on the box of all sparcs... |
| 17:50.55 | rdancer | mikejw: hello |
| 17:51.13 | mikejw | hi :) |
| 17:52.08 | rhowe | woohoo |
| 17:52.16 | rhowe | That's the last of the email imported from Exchange |
| 17:52.58 | rhowe | /dev/mapper/VG02-GSS ext3 26G 24G 355M 99% /sa |
| 17:52.59 | rhowe | /dev/mapper/VG01-LV01_home ext3 50G 47G 94M 100% /home |
| 17:53.29 | rhowe | About time too - now I can take a couple of 18G drives out of the Exchange server and slap 'em in the RAID array for the /sa filesystem |
| 17:53.29 | rdancer | that's a *big* email, rhowe ... |
| 17:56.33 | Leeds | yay, Giles Wemmbley-Hogg is back |
| 17:56.49 | wethrin | ...? |
| 17:57.31 | Leeds | wethrin: radio 4 1830 comedy |
| 17:57.35 | wethrin | Ahh. |
| 17:58.03 | *** join/#gllug Numz (~Numz@82-35-18-215.cable.ubr03.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:59.34 | morsing | ibot milk |
| 17:59.35 | ibot | from memory, milk is the catalyst required for making tea flavoured cheese, or best served freshly squeezed |
| 18:00.00 | rdancer | eh |
| 18:02.22 | mikejw | brb |
| 18:04.00 | *** join/#gllug mikejw (~mikejw@81-178-115-220.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 19:19.23 | *** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user) |
| 19:20.33 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@82.152.135.213) |
| 19:24.23 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@host-212-158-207-148.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 19:26.18 | rdancer | what do these names on the videocards' PCB mean?: "CURTIS CHRIS M. JOE BRIAN KEVIN CHRIS O. MIKE BRUCE DON ANISSA TONY YOUNG" (curtis, chris m. and bruce are crossed-over) |
| 19:26.21 | wethrin | People who helped design in? |
| 19:26.24 | wethrin | *it |
| 19:26.25 | rdancer | in a SS5. |
| 19:26.41 | rdancer | wethrin: that's the obvious hypothesis |
| 19:26.56 | Leeds | I could look them up, see if any of them are at Sun :-) |
| 19:27.00 | rdancer | wethrin: ...and those crossed out are dead or fired |
| 19:27.44 | rdancer | Leeds: the chip on the cards says "STP3010PGA\nTURBOXGA" |
| 19:28.37 | Leeds | rdancer: that doesn't help me - I meant I could look them up in the employee directory... |
| 19:28.44 | rdancer | Leeds: 8-) |
| 19:29.17 | rdancer | Leeds: i supposed you could narrow the search to the people who did pcb design at that time |
| 19:29.42 | Leeds | I could, if I had the slightest clue how to do that |
| 19:30.15 | rdancer | this reminds me of the time when i couldn't tell which chip was the CPU, on a x86 motherboard 8-) |
| 19:31.10 | rdancer | i would just hold the thing in one hand, and point with the other: `this one' -- `no' -- `this one' -- `no' -- and so on 8-)) |
| 19:31.18 | Leeds | heh |
| 19:31.26 | Leeds | right, I've done my 10k for the day |
| 19:31.57 | rdancer | wtf is 10k? |
| 19:32.00 | Leeds | paces |
| 19:32.13 | rdancer | ~dict pace |
| 19:32.53 | Leeds | steps, walkingf |
| 19:33.48 | rdancer | ibot: you slow bot! Leeds is quicker dictionary than you! |
| 19:33.50 | ibot | I think you lost me on that one, rdancer |
| 19:34.11 | rdancer | ~dict sun |
| 19:34.16 | rdancer | ibot: dict sun |
| 19:34.39 | rdancer | ibot: dict 1 linux |
| 19:35.29 | rdancer | ~rdancer |
| 19:35.30 | ibot | methinks rdancer is a law-abiding citizen, or from Prague, .cz, or rope-dancer |
| 19:35.43 | rdancer | what's wrong with ibot's dictionary? |
| 19:36.38 | Leeds | no idea |
| 19:36.39 | rdancer | ibot: rdancer =~ s/is a law-abiding citizen, or/comes/ |
| 19:36.39 | ibot | rdancer: that doesn't contain 'is a law-abiding citizen, or' |
| 19:42.47 | rdancer | Leeds: you have that pacemeter? |
| 19:43.04 | rdancer | eh, that *was* quick... |
| 19:43.28 | Leeds | pedometer, yes |
| 19:45.10 | rdancer | 1 pace is roughly 1 yard, correct? |
| 19:45.30 | rdancer | ~dict yard |
| 19:45.39 | rdancer | seems like s/roughly// |
| 19:46.38 | Leeds | no |
| 19:47.30 | rdancer | i don't mean semanti-/semiotically, i mean lengthwise |
| 19:48.08 | Leeds | so do I |
| 19:49.00 | Leeds | I don't have a particularly good view of my pacelength (which of course varies for different people and walking styles) but I'm pretty sure it's less than a yard |
| 19:50.17 | rdancer | eh, so probably is your feet |
| 19:50.23 | rdancer | s/feet/foot/ |
| 19:50.32 | rdancer | or inch, whatever that means |
| 19:53.19 | highbury | hi chaps |
| 19:55.34 | Leeds | highbury: doesn't gnu tar have an option to make more compatible tar files? |
| 19:57.33 | Leeds | -o |
| 20:11.24 | Leeds | http://www.eff.org/endangered/ |
| 20:13.51 | *** join/#gllug AndrewBlack_ (~chatzilla@81.2.66.249) |
| 21:14.36 | *** join/#gllug BobtheAvenger (Bob@host213-122-34-24.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 21:14.45 | BobtheAvenger | hey all |
| 21:15.14 | wethrin | hi |
| 21:15.34 | BobtheAvenger | hey wethrin how are you? |
| 21:21.59 | wethrin | I'm not so bad. Other than currently being on a 3G/GPRS connection |
| 21:23.43 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:24.17 | BobtheAvenger | i'm tempted to kill the dude who invented course work |
| 21:24.23 | highbury | leeds: --posix |
| 21:24.59 | George | BobtheAvenger: it's a piss poor idea isn't it? :) |
| 21:25.28 | BobtheAvenger | yep and then some |
| 21:25.38 | wethrin | Would you rather be sitting exams? |
| 21:25.50 | BobtheAvenger | erm yes i suppose |
| 21:26.14 | BobtheAvenger | i'd rather to O levels to GCSEs |
| 21:26.16 | George | it's also unbelievably corrupt |
| 21:26.24 | George | GCSEs are easy |
| 21:26.40 | George | as are AS levels :) |
| 21:26.42 | BobtheAvenger | O levels were easier |
| 21:26.53 | George | no they weren't |
| 21:27.15 | BobtheAvenger | they were |
| 21:27.21 | George | no, they weren't |
| 21:27.25 | wethrin | O levels wre probably about the same or similar standard to current AS |
| 21:27.38 | George | this is a well known fact |
| 21:27.45 | George | O levels were more difficult than AS levels are now |
| 21:27.52 | BobtheAvenger | no because i could do the O level math paper in year9 |
| 21:28.14 | wethrin | Ah, but that's because GCSE maths is filled with useless crap |
| 21:28.25 | BobtheAvenger | yep |
| 21:28.25 | George | are you sure it was an O level? |
| 21:28.42 | BobtheAvenger | yes i'm sure |
| 21:28.46 | wethrin | Sad. Actually, I think they were similar standard when I was doing A levels |
| 21:28.56 | wethrin | ISTR we were given some O level questions as mocks |
| 21:29.34 | BobtheAvenger | the whole education system is screwed up at the moment |
| 21:29.43 | George | GCSE maths was piss easy |
| 21:29.47 | George | it was an insult |
| 21:29.56 | wethrin | Less so than if they go to diploma-stuff |
| 21:30.17 | BobtheAvenger | we do GCSE math question as examples when learning |
| 21:30.34 | George | actually, glancing at an O level maths paper it doesn't look like much has changed from O levels to GCSE |
| 21:30.41 | George | but I saw an O level Latin paper and couldn't do it |
| 21:30.59 | BobtheAvenger | yer that'd be hard |
| 21:31.18 | George | and my father said an O level physics paper was more difficult than the stuff we were getting for AS |
| 21:31.26 | BobtheAvenger | heh |
| 21:31.43 | wethrin | Yes. Most likely |
| 21:31.47 | wethrin | But physics is hard, like |
| 21:31.58 | BobtheAvenger | physics is easy |
| 21:32.17 | George | yup |
| 21:32.27 | BobtheAvenger | its math with more rules |
| 21:32.39 | wethrin | Oh really? |
| 21:32.42 | George | the maths involved in physics is depressingly simple :P |
| 21:32.58 | wethrin | So you can quite easily solve the time-dependent radial Schroedinger equation? |
| 21:33.01 | BobtheAvenger | well thats how i do it and i do alright at physics |
| 21:33.08 | rdancer | heh |
| 21:33.11 | George | heh |
| 21:33.13 | BobtheAvenger | gimme 1 to try wethrin |
| 21:33.17 | George | three term equations anyone? :) |
| 21:33.18 | wethrin | George: Please don't take crap |
| 21:33.22 | wethrin | *talk |
| 21:33.47 | wethrin | You haven't done proper physics. |
| 21:34.12 | rdancer | i think George talks school's physics |
| 21:34.12 | wethrin | BobtheAvenger: I can't remember it OTTOMH. |
| 21:34.16 | BobtheAvenger | Schroedinger was the dude who has the hypothesis with the cat in the box |
| 21:34.22 | George | rdancer: hrmm? |
| 21:34.24 | rdancer | s/\(school\)'s/\1/ |
| 21:34.42 | BobtheAvenger | where the cat was neither dead nor alive till the box was opened |
| 21:34.51 | George | heh |
| 21:35.08 | BobtheAvenger | this was used to go into multiple dimetions which replcate as decisions are taken |
| 21:35.19 | George | well, I'm in danger of not getting an A at AS physics unless I actually stop trying to cruise through it without doing any work :( |
| 21:35.23 | BobtheAvenger | this is an extention of quantum physics |
| 21:35.26 | rdancer | George: that stuff you don't really dive into those funny calculi... |
| 21:35.26 | wethrin | He also put forward the foundations for quantum mechanics |
| 21:35.38 | wethrin | It's not an extension |
| 21:35.40 | George | rdancer: still don't know what you're talking about. |
| 21:36.05 | BobtheAvenger | wher by a particle can have observed neither a accurate position or velocity |
| 21:36.31 | wethrin | Yes. That falls out quite neatly from solving the appropriate equations |
| 21:36.41 | BobtheAvenger | this is because the act of observing a particle afects its directin or velocity |
| 21:37.02 | BobtheAvenger | this is known as the 'Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle' |
| 21:37.18 | BobtheAvenger | but i have english course work to do |
| 21:37.45 | BobtheAvenger | cool# |
| 21:37.57 | BobtheAvenger | what do you make of the M-Thoery? |
| 21:38.17 | wethrin | Haven't done it. |
| 21:38.19 | George | that stuff isn't on the GCSE syllabus :) |
| 21:38.23 | George | you must have a keen teacher |
| 21:38.23 | George | lol |
| 21:38.26 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:38.28 | BobtheAvenger | me? |
| 21:38.30 | rdancer | still BobtheAvenger's explanations are interesting for those non-grads... |
| 21:38.47 | rdancer | ~dict m-theory |
| 21:39.20 | BobtheAvenger | its the amalgimation if thats te right word the the 5 existing string thoerys |
| 21:39.54 | rdancer | ah, yes, BobtheAvenger -- google was quicker then you this time 8-) |
| 21:39.59 | wethrin | Ahh. String theories are not covered in a standard undergrad course |
| 21:40.12 | BobtheAvenger | where strings can 'sweel' up into superstrings because of there being a 11th dimetion |
| 21:40.12 | wethrin | 'tis only for those mad theoreticians |
| 21:40.42 | wethrin | See, the difference between physicists and mathermaticians is that mathmos work in n-dimensions, and physicists put numbers in |
| 21:40.48 | BobtheAvenger | yer |
| 21:41.08 | BobtheAvenger | 1 time and 10 spatial? |
| 21:41.32 | rdancer | are there any `practical' implications of the schroedinger theorem? |
| 21:41.42 | wethrin | Yes |
| 21:41.45 | wethrin | Err |
| 21:41.47 | wethrin | Which one? |
| 21:41.49 | wethrin | The cat? |
| 21:41.51 | rdancer | the cat one |
| 21:41.53 | wethrin | Or the equation? |
| 21:42.11 | rdancer | whichever |
| 21:42.22 | wethrin | The equation definitely yes |
| 21:42.33 | wethrin | Semiconductors |
| 21:42.33 | rdancer | the whole thing, i'd say, if that wasn't grossly inappropriate ;-) |
| 21:42.57 | rdancer | huh, are they affected by uncertainity? |
| 21:43.04 | BobtheAvenger | yep |
| 21:43.29 | wethrin | And the fact that there's a finite minimal size when creating channels on a silicon chip before tunnelling effects become significant |
| 21:44.12 | wethrin | Actually, the band gap that makes semiconductors work come out by solving the Schroedinger equation using a periodic potential (ie a crystal) |
| 21:44.45 | rdancer | omg |
| 21:45.10 | wethrin | ? |
| 21:45.28 | BobtheAvenger | ? |
| 21:45.34 | rdancer | few minutes ago, i thought the cat theorem was only a philosophical excercise.. |
| 21:45.45 | wethrin | Ahh |
| 21:46.00 | rdancer | now i rtfm'd a bit, and it seems at least few people believe it's a physical phenomenon |
| 21:46.32 | wethrin | It's the point that the act of observing a system destroys the system itself |
| 21:46.42 | rdancer | i blame physics popularization books! |
| 21:47.20 | wethrin | Hehe |
| 21:47.31 | wethrin | Yes. They should all read proper textbooks, and do physics properly |
| 21:47.55 | BobtheAvenger | if i could get degree textbook i'd read them |
| 21:48.01 | rdancer | it's kind of difficult to find a good textbook in czech, mind you |
| 21:48.51 | rdancer | in fact, i still am looking for a math textbook that would explain the real basics, and wouldn't just assume thousands of dogmas |
| 21:49.25 | rdancer | (any language, for that purpose) |
| 21:49.59 | BobtheAvenger | wethrin are you just doing physics? |
| 21:50.23 | wethrin | I did. Then I worked, did CompSci, and now I'm doing organic electronics |
| 21:50.34 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:50.50 | BobtheAvenger | did you just do your grad |
| 21:51.00 | BobtheAvenger | or post grad aswell? |
| 21:51.13 | wethrin | BobtheAvenger: You can get degree textbooks in lots of places |
| 21:51.20 | wethrin | I'm currently 1st year PhD |
| 21:51.23 | George | I hate being ill. |
| 21:51.28 | BobtheAvenger | cool |
| 21:52.02 | BobtheAvenger | can you name me some good one please because i've almost exhausted my A-level ones |
| 21:53.29 | BobtheAvenger | please? |
| 21:54.06 | rdancer | BobtheAvenger: just ask MIT Press and Adisson Wessley to send you the catalogues? |
| 21:54.07 | wethrin | Umm. You basically get subject-specific ones |
| 21:54.13 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:54.36 | BobtheAvenger | thanks |
| 21:54.39 | wethrin | You might be able to find some general-purpose ones, but they're mostly for just the 1st year |
| 21:54.39 | rdancer | BobtheAvenger: you can get everything on amazon.com |
| 21:54.47 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:54.47 | wethrin | They have imaginative titles like "Physics" |
| 21:54.51 | BobtheAvenger | heh |
| 21:55.00 | BobtheAvenger | that what my GSCE 1 has |
| 21:55.01 | wethrin | Actually, I'd recommend going to your favourite local bookshop and browsing |
| 21:55.23 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:55.29 | rdancer | british library has all of them, past editions and everything |
| 21:55.43 | wethrin | Well, yes, but you need to become a BL reader |
| 21:55.57 | rdancer | also, they have all the referenced works, and tons and tons of handbooks |
| 21:56.04 | BobtheAvenger | cool |
| 21:56.18 | rdancer | better yet, the library of congress *really* has it all 8-) |
| 21:56.34 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:56.43 | wethrin | The BL will have everything that's ever been published in the UK |
| 21:56.45 | rdancer | ok, that was a deliberate lie. they don't have it all. they only wanted to, in the beginning ;-) |
| 21:56.51 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:56.52 | wethrin | As will the Bodleian in Oxford |
| 21:57.00 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 21:57.35 | BobtheAvenger | i'm having a look on amazon |
| 21:57.38 | rdancer | they are few ppl down my window, laughing hysterically. thc is a strange drug |
| 21:58.39 | BobtheAvenger | http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0471239992/qid=1106690265/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-5642448-2084142 |
| 21:58.52 | BobtheAvenger | does that looks like a grad physivs textbook? |
| 21:59.04 | wethrin | Title/author? |
| 21:59.18 | BobtheAvenger | Fundamentals of Physics, Textbook and Student Solutions Manual |
| 21:59.18 | BobtheAvenger | by David Halliday |
| 21:59.20 | wethrin | remember I'm on a GPRS connection |
| 21:59.34 | wethrin | Halliday/Resnick/Walker? |
| 21:59.35 | rdancer | ``Shipping Weight: 7.6 pounds.'' |
| 21:59.52 | rdancer | seems like a good book |
| 22:00.07 | wethrin | Oh, and you should be using amazon.co.uk :) |
| 22:00.17 | BobtheAvenger | yer i'll check there now |
| 22:00.27 | wethrin | If it's HRW, I think it's fairly reasonable as a 1st year undergrad text |
| 22:00.36 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 22:00.40 | BobtheAvenger | cool |
| 22:01.46 | BobtheAvenger | its kinda depressing i read the GCSE textbook cover to cover before i did SATs |
| 22:02.34 | rdancer | BobtheAvenger: it just means you probably have no real life... ;-) |
| 22:03.02 | BobtheAvenger | nope |
| 22:03.03 | rdancer | (it certainly had this meaning in my case) |
| 22:04.11 | BobtheAvenger | actually it might because my parents bought it for me when i was 8 to shut me up from asking them physics stuff |
| 22:04.37 | wethrin | :) |
| 22:04.42 | BobtheAvenger | well it worked |
| 22:04.55 | rdancer | 8-) |
| 22:05.24 | BobtheAvenger | i got 91% on my physics test |
| 22:05.41 | rdancer | BobtheAvenger: 9% off? |
| 22:05.51 | BobtheAvenger | 1 mark |
| 22:06.26 | BobtheAvenger | i added 2numbers wrong |
| 22:06.43 | rdancer | eh, merchants' counting... |
| 22:06.47 | rdancer | ;-) |
| 22:07.02 | BobtheAvenger | 2+2=5 |
| 22:07.31 | wethrin | For sufficiently large values of 2 |
| 22:07.47 | BobtheAvenger | yep |
| 22:08.02 | BobtheAvenger | and the last lesson of the day |
| 22:08.35 | BobtheAvenger | there should be no test in the last lesson |
| 22:09.17 | BobtheAvenger | http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0199146802/qid=1106690516/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_10_4/202-3966984-5022260 |
| 22:09.45 | rdancer | wethrin: i honestly doesn't fully understand what 2+2=5 means |
| 22:10.11 | wethrin | Merchant's counting |
| 22:10.15 | rdancer | s/doesn't/don't/ |
| 22:10.16 | wethrin | BobtheAvenger: What's that URL? |
| 22:10.20 | BobtheAvenger | http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0199146802/qid=1106690516/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_10_4/202-3966984-5022260 |
| 22:10.31 | rdancer | amazon.com displays crap in lynx |
| 22:10.33 | wethrin | Yes, yes. What's the book behind it? |
| 22:11.17 | BobtheAvenger | Advanced Physics (Advanced) |
| 22:11.17 | BobtheAvenger | Steve Adams, Jonathan Allday |
| 22:11.26 | rdancer | is there some book to explain the mysteries of integers, `basic' arithmetic operations, and stuff? |
| 22:11.48 | rdancer | something like ``under the hood of the school math dogmas''? |
| 22:12.12 | wethrin | Don't know it |
| 22:12.42 | wethrin | rdancer: No. Unless you want some *really* obtuse theoretical maths textbook |
| 22:14.02 | rdancer | all the math imo revolves around the situation when you don't acknowledge you don't have your fundamental properties defined, and then all of a sudden, you realize there are few possible outcomes depending on how you define them, and you make a big fuzz about it, and all the people say aaawww, he's so good |
| 22:15.29 | wethrin | Basically, the most fundamental operations are treated as axiomatic |
| 22:15.37 | rdancer | wethrin: dogmatic |
| 22:15.44 | rdancer | wethrin: they are not fully defined |
| 22:15.54 | wethrin | Axiomatic |
| 22:15.55 | rdancer | wethrin: or understood |
| 22:16.38 | rdancer | axiomatic is when it doesn't make a sense to prove it |
| 22:16.58 | wethrin | No. Axiomatic is when you can't prove it because it's a definition |
| 22:17.11 | wethrin | Such as parallel lines never meeting in Euclidean space |
| 22:17.11 | rdancer | perhaps |
| 22:17.39 | rdancer | yes, that's one of the possible reasons of not defining it |
| 22:17.48 | rdancer | s/defining/proving/ |
| 22:18.37 | *** join/#gllug JAV (~JAV@105.Red-80-34-40.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:18.42 | rdancer | but the concept of a number is a very complex and not very well understood, yet every 6yo is presented with them |
| 22:19.24 | wethrin | You can't really prove a definition |
| 22:19.52 | rdancer | you can prove its consistency, and its realm |
| 22:20.02 | wethrin | To actually define a number is very difficult, and requires many yearws of study |
| 22:21.15 | rdancer | therefore it's kind of deceitful to pretend it's an easy and neat thing everybody knows and understands... |
| 22:21.38 | rdancer | if a definition not self-consistent, or it is not valid for much casese, it's not a good definition |
| 22:23.01 | BobtheAvenger | what i miss? |
| 22:23.13 | wethrin | Nothing, apparently |
| 22:23.53 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 22:24.15 | wethrin | Everyone uses numbrs quite happily without understanding fundamentals; I'd say it's not actually necessary to understand the concepts behind them |
| 22:24.22 | BobtheAvenger | true |
| 22:24.57 | BobtheAvenger | i will never need to know than (6i)^2 = -64 |
| 22:25.17 | BobtheAvenger | well i might but not day to day |
| 22:26.06 | wethrin | ACtually, it'd be -36 |
| 22:26.19 | rdancer | eh |
| 22:26.23 | BobtheAvenger | yer |
| 22:26.34 | BobtheAvenger | my bad i thort i wrote 8i |
| 22:26.44 | wethrin | :) |
| 22:26.51 | JAV | :D |
| 22:27.00 | BobtheAvenger | well its not bad for some1 with no GCSEs |
| 22:27.08 | rdancer | i guess now you thought you wrote thought, BobtheAvenger ;-) |
| 22:27.25 | BobtheAvenger | something like that |
| 22:29.01 | BobtheAvenger | so 3i * 6i = -18? |
| 22:29.12 | wethrin | Yes |
| 22:29.26 | BobtheAvenger | ok good my figuring out was right |
| 22:29.38 | wethrin | Because it's just 3 * i * 6 * i = 3 * 6 * i * i = 3 * 6 * -1 |
| 22:29.46 | BobtheAvenger | yer |
| 22:30.31 | BobtheAvenger | i did it a slightly different way |
| 22:34.01 | wethrin | aye? |
| 22:34.27 | BobtheAvenger | if 6i*6i = -36 |
| 22:34.51 | BobtheAvenger | then 1/2(6i*6i) = 1/2(-36) |
| 22:35.07 | BobtheAvenger | therefor 3i*6i = -18 |
| 22:35.22 | wethrin | Fair enough :) |
| 22:38.52 | BobtheAvenger | have you learnt how to express dimentions 5-10s shape mathmatically? |
| 22:39.48 | BobtheAvenger | wethrin? |
| 22:39.57 | wethrin | Nope. We've never needed it |
| 22:40.00 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 22:40.08 | wethrin | 4 dimensions is all that's needed for most things |
| 22:40.13 | BobtheAvenger | i cant find that anywhere |
| 22:40.33 | BobtheAvenger | yer but i want to understand |
| 22:41.33 | wethrin | I can't recommend a book. But you need to understand all the maths first |
| 22:41.49 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 22:41.53 | BobtheAvenger | i think i can do htat |
| 22:41.56 | BobtheAvenger | *that |
| 22:42.07 | *** join/#gllug ufo (ufo@kasztan.il.pw.edu.pl) |
| 22:42.16 | wethrin | Are you sure? |
| 22:42.54 | BobtheAvenger | depends what it does |
| 22:43.31 | BobtheAvenger | i can do basic calculus |
| 22:44.14 | BobtheAvenger | and i got people to ask if i'm really stuck |
| 22:44.42 | wethrin | They're theoretical mathematicians? |
| 22:45.21 | BobtheAvenger | erm a machanics 1, pure, stats n if i think i can find a theoretical 1 |
| 22:45.53 | wethrin | Yes. Who have specifically studied that branch of maths for a Phd? |
| 22:46.15 | BobtheAvenger | erm yes i fink so |
| 22:46.51 | BobtheAvenger | you think i'm talking shit? |
| 22:47.13 | rdancer | the power supply i bought last weekend at the tc computer fair makes strange noises |
| 22:47.23 | BobtheAvenger | heh no good |
| 22:47.26 | BobtheAvenger | *not |
| 22:48.14 | wethrin | I think you have almost no chance of understanding the maths without a degree in the subject |
| 22:48.20 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 22:48.22 | rdancer | sounds like when i plug earphones tho the cdrom when a cd is spinning |
| 22:48.23 | BobtheAvenger | fair point |
| 22:48.49 | wethrin | rdancer: Fan rubbing against the case? |
| 22:49.10 | BobtheAvenger | i dont think it'll be easy by any stretch but i think its doable |
| 22:49.25 | rdancer | wethrin: it's a dell's ADP-70EB; it's a closed plastic brick |
| 22:49.59 | wethrin | BobtheAvenger: Think how long it took to get from knowing 2+2=4 to knowing calculus. It'll take at least as long to understand it properly |
| 22:50.07 | wethrin | rdancer: Oh. |
| 22:50.39 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 22:51.07 | BobtheAvenger | how much of it will have to do with understanding the complex plane? |
| 22:52.23 | BobtheAvenger | nevermind |
| 22:52.23 | wethrin | Oh, not much |
| 22:54.10 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 22:56.58 | BobtheAvenger | whats the equasion for solving cubic equasions? |
| 22:59.03 | BobtheAvenger | is it like an exstention of completeing the square? |
| 23:01.21 | BobtheAvenger | nevermuind |
| 23:01.27 | wethrin | It's considerably more complicated |
| 23:06.52 | BobtheAvenger | i might give up and draw a graph |
| 23:07.52 | wethrin | Yes |
| 23:08.07 | wethrin | Is this for your own interest, or something you need to solve? |
| 23:08.14 | BobtheAvenger | erm a mixture |
| 23:08.22 | BobtheAvenger | it comes up soon |
| 23:08.35 | BobtheAvenger | so i may aswell try it now |
| 23:09.46 | wethrin | Normally ones you're asked to solve you can trivially find one root, then divide the equation |
| 23:10.15 | BobtheAvenger | so just take out the factors? |
| 23:10.38 | wethrin | Yeah |
| 23:10.41 | BobtheAvenger | ok |
| 23:10.54 | BobtheAvenger | thats simple i supose |
| 23:11.19 | BobtheAvenger | well it probably harder than it sounds |
| 23:11.29 | wethrin | Brush up on long division :) |
| 23:11.33 | BobtheAvenger | i only ever done it with quatratics |
| 23:11.57 | BobtheAvenger | well i got to go |
| 23:11.59 | BobtheAvenger | peace |
| 23:32.07 | JAV | mmm DTrace code available |
| 23:40.02 | *** join/#gllug rdancer (~r--t@rdancer.user) |