| 00:11.51 | *** join/#gllug Bitch (~beth@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:13.30 | *** join/#gllug Bitch (~beth@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:14.52 | Clyphox | Hello Bitch |
| 00:17.51 | Cope | Hello |
| 00:18.07 | Clyphox | Bitch: ping |
| 00:18.21 | Clyphox | Cope: used irssi b4? |
| 00:19.12 | Cope | Sorry - /me-ing for some reason. |
| 00:19.35 | Clyphox | hehe |
| 00:44.55 | Cope | ANyone awake? |
| 00:46.06 | Clyphox | I |
| 00:47.36 | Cope | PHP is apparently on course to eclipse perl in the serverside development arena, I am being told, by a friend. |
| 00:50.25 | Clyphox | well its interpretable now.. and under heavy development.. I'm not surprised |
| 00:51.19 | Clyphox | ever used php? |
| 00:53.56 | Cope | Not coded it, no, but looked at some source, and used a php/SQL set-up. |
| 00:54.15 | Clyphox | its fun coding |
| 00:54.16 | murble | Cope: PHP is rather horrid. |
| 00:54.23 | murble | atleast compared to perl. |
| 00:54.34 | murble | probably perl is too hard for most web developers to use... |
| 00:55.02 | murble | sorry i'm just being rude. |
| 00:55.10 | Cope | Well, perl is designed to do much more than just web scripting; php *is* designed for webscripting. |
| 00:55.37 | murble | Cope: designed? |
| 00:55.42 | murble | didn't it just evolve? |
| 00:55.49 | murble | Personal Home Page ... hmm |
| 00:55.51 | Clyphox | yup.. evolved |
| 00:55.55 | Cope | murble: Good point. |
| 00:55.56 | Clyphox | otherwise it would be faster |
| 00:56.08 | murble | but then again so did perl. |
| 00:56.59 | Cope | I guess what I mean is that in terms of what php sets out to do over-against what perl sets out to do, perl can become much more complex. |
| 00:59.00 | *** join/#gllug highbury|away (~steve@81-1-75-33.homechoice.co.uk) |
| 00:59.25 | Cope | The main goal of PHP is to allow web developers to write dynamically generated web pages quickly. |
| 00:59.36 | gregj | hmmm |
| 00:59.44 | Cope | Hi highbury. |
| 00:59.47 | Cope | Woo gregj. |
| 00:59.56 | gregj | bar |
| 00:59.57 | gregj | :] |
| 01:00.37 | Clyphox | cause its interpreted? |
| 01:01.41 | Cope | What's the difference between a scripting language and a programming language, gregj? |
| 01:03.19 | gregj | well, there are many things missing in php |
| 01:03.30 | gregj | plus it is the same thing as with VB |
| 01:03.43 | gregj | ppl that can only "program" in it, are usually dumb |
| 01:04.13 | gregj | i won't recomend it as a first language you will learn |
| 01:04.45 | Cope | gregj: Fair. What would you recommend? |
| 01:05.04 | gregj | C |
| 01:05.18 | gregj | i've started with atari basic and shortly after assembler |
| 01:05.23 | gregj | but i won't recommend that |
| 01:05.24 | gregj | :] |
| 01:05.48 | Cope | I started with BBC Basic then 6502 assembler. |
| 01:05.49 | gregj | unless you know 0/1 electronics |
| 01:05.56 | gregj | so simmilar |
| 01:06.21 | gregj | the fact that i know assembler very well really helped me to understeand computers and languages |
| 01:06.32 | gregj | in particular C |
| 01:06.53 | Cope | Beyond that, C -really- appeals to me, as its logical, low-level, and very powerful. |
| 01:07.30 | Cope | But then in order to bolt on object orientation, does one go to C++? Or does one start with OO, with Python or Ruby or something? |
| 01:08.10 | gregj | C++/java is good |
| 01:08.12 | gregj | python also |
| 01:08.26 | gregj | but python and other interpreted high level langs are not good for start |
| 01:08.37 | gregj | it is better to start with something that requires hassle to write anything |
| 01:08.44 | gregj | like C++ or java |
| 01:09.03 | gregj | it teaches patience and give you fair understeanding of what is really going on |
| 01:09.16 | gregj | besides, you can do OO in assembler as well |
| 01:09.17 | gregj | :-) |
| 01:09.20 | Cope | So C++ is the best of both worlds. |
| 01:09.38 | gregj | C/C++ |
| 01:09.44 | gregj | that is my personal view |
| 01:09.49 | gregj | i know many ppl won't agree |
| 01:11.47 | gregj | :] |
| 01:12.31 | gregj | :] |
| 01:15.26 | gregj | i've learned C++ about 4 years ago or more |
| 01:15.33 | gregj | but still don't know everything |
| 01:19.14 | Clyphox | bed=good |
| 02:23.09 | *** join/#gllug new2unix (~new2unix@dsl-217-155-250-142.zen.co.uk) |
| 02:44.30 | Clyphox|UrT | [yawn] |
| 07:56.07 | Tarragon | Moin |
| 08:03.39 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (~mozrat@194.203.40.207) |
| 09:06.28 | Clyphox | Hopla |
| 09:06.43 | Wethrin | 'lo |
| 09:26.54 | *** join/#gllug Clyphox (~clyphox@82-35-127-97.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 09:36.50 | pawelsz | http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windowsmobile/products/smartphone/default.mspx |
| 09:36.55 | pawelsz | armagedon. |
| 09:50.09 | irvined | Anybody Lonix'ing? |
| 09:50.33 | Wethrin | When? |
| 09:52.11 | irvined | thursday 4th |
| 09:52.35 | Clyphox | not sure.. prolly not |
| 09:52.39 | Wethrin | Ahh.....yes, I don't see why not |
| 09:52.41 | Clyphox | I that is |
| 09:52.48 | Wethrin | Are you Gllug-socialling today? |
| 10:01.45 | Clyphox | ya |
| 10:01.58 | Wethrin | I know you are :-P |
| 10:10.41 | *** join/#gllug ar (~ar@bob.nooneishere.co.uk) |
| 10:14.40 | Wethrin | Grargh. Lonix clashes with London.pm |
| 10:18.43 | Cope|Sleep | Morning |
| 10:18.55 | Wethrin | 'lo |
| 10:19.37 | Cope | Lonix often seems to clash with London.pm |
| 10:19.50 | Wethrin | Yes. Bad Tushar. |
| 10:20.06 | Cope | Maybe he just doesn't like Perl. |
| 10:20.18 | Wethrin | Neither do I >;_) |
| 10:20.20 | Wethrin | >:-) |
| 10:27.25 | Wethrin | fun |
| 10:45.25 | murble | Wethrin: give Tushar a poke, it woundn't do any good, but poking him anyway |
| 10:45.49 | Wethrin | Good idea. |
| 10:48.32 | Wethrin | Done |
| 10:52.19 | Wethrin | Why oh why oh why is lpd running on a colocated server? |
| 10:52.26 | Wethrin | ibot lart RedHat |
| 10:54.04 | murble | Wethrin: i suspect it is due to poor user admin and stuff like that. |
| 10:54.23 | murble | oh what time was the pub today? |
| 10:54.43 | Wethrin | Around 6.30ish |
| 10:54.46 | Wethrin | Maybe a bit earlier. |
| 10:55.38 | Wethrin | murble: No, it is due to silly admin forgetting to check when he got a fresh install of RedHat, due to far too many other things on his mind |
| 10:56.01 | JD | hi |
| 10:56.17 | Wethrin | Hello JD. Will you be at the pub today? |
| 10:56.30 | JD | I will be at a pub today |
| 10:56.37 | JD | I'm sure of that |
| 10:56.43 | Wethrin | Will you come pick up your copies of VMWare, then? |
| 10:56.59 | JD | ah no |
| 10:57.05 | JD | will not be in london |
| 10:57.15 | Wethrin | When can you get them? |
| 10:57.22 | JD | gah bugger I meant to say something about those last week |
| 10:57.59 | murble | JD: don't you belive in london or somthing? |
| 10:58.14 | JD | murble: no it doesn't exist |
| 11:07.25 | irvined | gllug socialling? |
| 11:07.30 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 11:07.33 | Wethrin | Tonight. At a PUB! |
| 11:07.58 | irvined | We have a gllug social? |
| 11:08.15 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 11:08.16 | Wethrin | Tonight. At a PUB! |
| 11:08.31 | irvined | Hmmm. Possibly. |
| 11:08.37 | irvined | Its a toigh one. |
| 11:08.47 | Wethrin | Tonight. At a PUB! |
| 11:22.46 | eye69 | Where? Prefer close to L.pool st :) |
| 11:23.12 | Wethrin | Rising Sun; TCR |
| 11:23.57 | eye69 | Ok. Time? |
| 11:24.10 | eye69 | Ah, 6.30ish |
| 11:24.21 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 11:24.26 | JD | ooh ooh rising sun |
| 11:24.28 | JD | been there |
| 11:24.29 | JD | tiny place |
| 11:24.47 | eye69 | Might just make it there. |
| 11:25.13 | eye69 | I no longer have a problem with shoddy bus link. |
| 11:25.19 | Wethrin | :) |
| 11:27.48 | Cope | HB form finished. |
| 11:29.07 | Wethrin | :) |
| 11:29.27 | Wethrin | Can anyone give a quick hand with an LVM problem someone's asking about? |
| 11:29.59 | eye69 | Wethrin: Sure. |
| 11:30.09 | Wethrin | Okay :) |
| 11:30.23 | Wethrin | <quot>I've set up two logical volumes on our SLOX4.0 server spanning two 40 |
| 11:30.24 | Wethrin | GByte physical drives. One LV is 50 GByte, the other 30 GByte. |
| 11:30.24 | Wethrin | Transferring data across these volumes is incredibly slow (slower than |
| 11:30.26 | Wethrin | across the network).</quot> |
| 11:30.40 | Cope | JD: Got latest irssi working now; remind me how to have two servers and switch between them? |
| 11:31.03 | JD | ^x switches between networks |
| 11:31.19 | Wethrin | /connect will connect you to another server without disconnecting the existing one |
| 11:31.40 | JD | check out /ircnet /server and /channel |
| 11:31.45 | eye69 | Wethrin: IDE? Tell him to run 'hdparm -c /dev/blah' on both disks, and run hdparm -d too |
| 11:31.56 | eye69 | Wethrin: It should be 32 bit and DMA enabled on both |
| 11:32.41 | eye69 | Has he put the disks on separate IDE channels, ie. both being master? |
| 11:33.01 | Wethrin | I don't even know if it's IDE or SCSI :) |
| 11:33.17 | eye69 | Well, being 40GB drives, it's probably IDE. |
| 11:33.24 | eye69 | Otherwise it would've been 36GB |
| 11:33.37 | Wethrin | Oh, fair enough |
| 11:42.03 | murble | Wethrin: but telling them to turn on dma uncondtinaly might be a bad ide, as the reason it is off could be because their controller is blacklisted. |
| 11:42.35 | Wethrin | murble: I'm not telling them to turn it on, only to give the output |
| 11:43.05 | murble | well cat /proc/ide/blah/settings |
| 11:43.06 | Wethrin | Or rather, look at the output |
| 11:43.07 | murble | might be better |
| 11:43.22 | murble | as hdparm can do other things, |
| 11:43.31 | eye69 | Just -c and -d wont change anything. |
| 11:43.34 | murble | like fail to read the information and cause what look like idea errors |
| 11:43.55 | *** join/#gllug knoppix (~knoppix@wibbleworld.demon.co.uk) |
| 11:43.55 | murble | eye69: they may cause ide like errors in the kernel error log ringbuffer |
| 11:43.58 | Wethrin | murble: I don't care about $customer *that* much :) |
| 11:47.16 | JD | Cope: seems to work |
| 12:03.02 | *** part/#gllug axelS (axel@80.192.205.17) |
| 12:27.39 | pawelsz | 8-) |
| 12:28.23 | *** join/#gllug zachary (~zachary@host81-128-237-47.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:28.39 | Wethrin | oi |
| 12:29.09 | zachary | hey Wethrin, still good for tonight? |
| 12:29.13 | Wethrin | Hmm....some fool phoning up SUSE and complaining that it broke his machine - BIOS wiped, etc. |
| 12:29.16 | Wethrin | zachary: Of course |
| 12:29.28 | Wethrin | However, this occurred after the ~4th boot |
| 12:30.02 | Wethrin | So I think it's a spontaneous hardware failure, likely caused by ESD or power surge, or somesuch |
| 12:30.53 | *** join/#gllug axelS-AFK (axelS@80.192.205.17) |
| 12:31.10 | zachary | possible battery failure. |
| 12:31.40 | Wethrin | But he apparently threatened to sue for damages, although there is an exclusion of warranty seal on the CD pack (the Exclusion itself is written outside the sealed part) |
| 12:31.52 | Wethrin | Nah - battery failure might wipe the CMOS, but not corrupt the BIOS |
| 12:32.47 | JD | Wethrin: did you have to take this call? |
| 12:32.54 | Wethrin | JD: No, Roger Whittaker did |
| 12:32.54 | zachary | I wonder if he is that intelegent to figure out difference between cmos and bios. |
| 12:33.11 | Wethrin | Yes, it seems. There is nothing at all on screen - it doesn't boot |
| 12:33.57 | JD | Wethrin: roger takes support calls? |
| 12:34.00 | JD | wow |
| 12:34.06 | *** join/#gllug axelS (~axel@80.192.205.17) |
| 12:34.13 | Wethrin | It's informal support |
| 12:34.24 | Wethrin | We like to be nice and help people |
| 12:34.26 | murble | JD: i thought he was a technical somthing or other from his job title that i saw somewhere or other. |
| 12:34.33 | Wethrin | Technical Consultant |
| 12:34.42 | Wethrin | No |
| 12:34.56 | murble | he is but the public face of SuSE UK |
| 12:34.58 | JD | has he ever been? |
| 12:35.04 | JD | oh right |
| 12:35.05 | Wethrin | Jasmin is the public face |
| 12:35.15 | murble | who is Jasmin? |
| 12:35.17 | JD | Wethrin: is she young and busty? |
| 12:35.21 | Wethrin | Jasmin Ul-Haque |
| 12:35.23 | axelS | hmm |
| 12:35.25 | *** part/#gllug axelS (~axel@80.192.205.17) |
| 12:35.36 | Wethrin | PR-type things, mostly. |
| 12:35.41 | murble | Wethrin: has she ever been out in public? |
| 12:35.44 | Wethrin | Roger tends to be more the technical face |
| 12:35.49 | Wethrin | murble: Yes, at Linux Expo |
| 12:36.00 | murble | Wethrin: ok, clearly i'm blind. |
| 12:36.08 | murble | or maybe it was on the day i wasn't there for. |
| 12:36.39 | Wethrin | She was there both days |
| 12:37.18 | murble | on which companies stand was she hiding? Sun? IBM? |
| 12:37.23 | Wethrin | Anyway, does $random_fool have any legal leg to stand on? |
| 12:37.24 | Wethrin | Sun |
| 12:37.24 | murble | LinuxMagazoine? |
| 12:37.37 | Wethrin | No. Sun stand. |
| 12:37.38 | Wethrin | (mostly) |
| 12:38.04 | murble | I asked the people trying to flog FW-1 about linux on the sun stand. |
| 12:38.13 | murble | seems they weren't intersted in selling linux |
| 12:38.24 | murble | and suggested that you could run in vmware!! |
| 12:38.25 | Wethrin | Didn't Sun have a few stands? |
| 12:38.46 | Wethrin | She was around the Java Desktop stands |
| 12:55.39 | Wethrin | # Mozilla is shit la la la |
| 12:57.52 | murble | mozilla is quite good |
| 12:58.21 | Wethrin | Other than being big, bloated, slow, etc. |
| 12:59.36 | Wethrin | What's that you say? It's good, but you don't want to admit it out loud? |
| 13:02.11 | Wethrin | Which one? |
| 13:03.15 | JD | safari |
| 13:03.29 | Wethrin | What about it? It's at home |
| 13:05.05 | JD | bah |
| 13:05.19 | Wethrin | Hm? |
| 13:20.38 | eye69 | Hmmm, proftpd wont ask for a password for the SSL key until the client connects. |
| 13:21.23 | zachary | Wethrin: Which crossing street is Rising Sun close to? |
| 13:21.41 | Wethrin | It's not far south of Goodge Street station |
| 13:23.44 | Wethrin | Lunchtime! |
| 13:31.36 | murble | zachary: it is next door the the hsbc atm machines and bank branch |
| 13:32.14 | zachary | murble: thanks |
| 13:34.38 | Cope | Corner of windmill street. |
| 13:34.48 | Cope | iirc |
| 13:35.19 | murble | Cope: yep |
| 13:35.20 | Cope | Opposite the carphone warehouse. |
| 13:35.34 | murble | I don't notice carhpne warehouses |
| 13:36.07 | Cope | in the good old days when I had a job :o) |
| 13:36.49 | Cope | Who do we have signed up for tonight, so far? |
| 13:38.01 | murble | possibly me. |
| 13:38.01 | murble | if i can be bothered to go all the way into london. |
| 13:44.27 | murble | last time people went to expensive indian resturant |
| 13:48.27 | zachary | I think chinese might be up on rotation. Or what ever else we stumble on. |
| 13:50.40 | *** join/#gllug jason_ukfsn (~jason@public1-watf3-5-cust248.lond.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 13:50.42 | jason_ukfsn | hey all |
| 13:50.51 | zachary | afternoon jason_ukfsn |
| 14:08.04 | Wethrin | Mm :) |
| 14:08.31 | Wethrin | We could just end up eating in the pub :) |
| 14:13.45 | *** join/#gllug knoppix (~knoppix@wibbleworld.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:14.35 | Wethrin | boom |
| 14:14.39 | *** join/#gllug Cope (~sanelson@wibbleworld.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:22.03 | Wethrin | Bored? |
| 14:25.04 | Cope | Feeling a bit low. |
| 14:31.39 | Wethrin | :( |
| 14:31.45 | Wethrin | Beer will cheer you up |
| 14:32.17 | eye69 | Beer can cheer a grey rock up |
| 14:32.56 | Cope | Beer would definitely cheer me up, but I have 4.10 to last until Monday, and 2 pounds will be spent in getting to the pub. |
| 14:33.07 | Cope | (and back) |
| 14:33.17 | Wethrin | Ah. |
| 14:36.51 | Wethrin | Cope: Where are you coming from, in that case? |
| 14:37.12 | Cope | Wethrin: West Hampstead / Kilburn |
| 14:37.26 | Wethrin | Hmm. A little bit more than nice walking distance, then |
| 14:37.50 | Cope | Wethrin: Maybe bike, but its a bit chilly out, these days. |
| 14:37.56 | Wethrin | Aye |
| 14:38.50 | nasrat | Wethrin: do you know if there are any *old* archives of suse packages (6.x) |
| 14:39.05 | Wethrin | Possibly. :) |
| 14:39.14 | Wethrin | Have you looked on the FTP site? |
| 14:39.17 | nasrat | http://www.mirror.ac.uk/sites/ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/ is far too recent |
| 14:39.50 | Cope | nasrat: There's an italian server in the ftp server list. |
| 14:39.59 | Cope | It had OLD OLD stuff on it this summer. |
| 14:40.45 | Wethrin | nasrat: What do you want a copy of? |
| 14:41.32 | nasrat | Wethrin: don't worry got it - cheers Cope |
| 14:42.00 | Wethrin | Okay :) |
| 14:44.28 | Cope | Oooh! Sophie had never seen Tux before, and announces that he is cute. |
| 14:47.22 | Wethrin | The BSD daemon is cuter. |
| 14:49.49 | nasrat | elks tux is cuter |
| 14:50.10 | Wethrin | No! Cuddly daemons! |
| 14:50.22 | Wethrin | With trainers and a pitchfork |
| 14:50.45 | nasrat | Wethrin: aren't you supposed to advocate lizards :P |
| 14:51.05 | Tarragon | I thought vigor was the evilest mascot? |
| 14:51.20 | Wethrin | >:-) |
| 14:51.28 | zachary | No, MSN butterfly! |
| 14:51.38 | Tarragon | You win! |
| 14:51.49 | jason_ukfsn | any C socket gurus here? |
| 14:52.22 | Wethrin | Does that mean BSD people get more sex? |
| 14:52.23 | Cope | Interesting marketing strategy, |
| 14:52.42 | Cope | If you want to be as sexy as this *BSD geek, use JD's condoms. |
| 14:52.50 | nasrat | jason_ukfsn: not really, but what's up |
| 14:53.09 | jason_ukfsn | I wouldn't take it as meaning they get more sex so much as it's imperative that they do not reproduce ;) |
| 14:55.57 | JD | http://www.naughtyvend.com |
| 14:58.03 | Wethrin | Grr. I'm being tempted with Shiny Things again |
| 14:58.33 | Tarragon | I do not want to know how you knew about a prophylactic franchise |
| 14:58.47 | jason_ukfsn | murble: I'm msg'ing nasrat about it at the moment |
| 14:59.22 | murble | jason_ukfsn: can't pollute this channel with possibly things of atehcnical nature :) |
| 14:59.48 | Wethrin | No, of course not :) |
| 15:00.01 | jason_ukfsn | I know hence the msg'ing. Friday night beer is far too important to be disrupted by posting code, etc |
| 15:00.22 | Wethrin | Friday Night Beer has already been discussed and agreed upon. |
| 15:00.29 | Wethrin | You will be coming, will you not? |
| 15:00.52 | jason_ukfsn | Afraid not. I'm still not feeling well enough for drinking and Friday's are not a good night at the moment |
| 15:01.11 | Wethrin | Ah. |
| 15:01.59 | Cope | Low commitment from the gluggers. |
| 15:02.08 | Cope | (pun intended) |
| 15:02.17 | Wethrin | GLUG! |
| 15:08.09 | JD | Tarragon: bought one |
| 15:09.21 | Cope | You bought a condom franchise? |
| 15:09.55 | Cope | Sorry - I think I'll just go to bed; everything I say today is inane. |
| 15:43.17 | JD | Cope: probably for the best |
| 15:46.57 | jason_ukfsn | OK time to get away from all this crap for an hour or so. Have fun all |
| 15:52.00 | *** join/#gllug formi (~formi@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:55.51 | formi | allo |
| 15:57.03 | Wethrin | 'lo |
| 15:57.14 | Wethrin | *copyrights |
| 15:58.47 | formi | i had something odd happening with minicom the other day |
| 15:58.50 | eye69 | Ey formi |
| 15:59.46 | eye69 | We're just faking it |
| 15:59.54 | formi | connecting was allright, but i had to press "enter" twice always |
| 16:00.30 | formi | using tip or cu worked without problem |
| 16:00.47 | formi | has anybody seen this behaviour before? |
| 16:15.17 | eye69 | So, which pub did we agree on? |
| 16:15.30 | zachary | rising sun on tcr |
| 16:15.50 | zachary | hey formi! |
| 16:16.10 | eye69 | Ok, I'll try to find it, and if not I'll phone Dan (or someone) |
| 16:16.13 | eye69 | See you there. |
| 16:16.23 | formi | hi zach |
| 16:16.51 | Cope | eye69 Its very easy to find |
| 16:16.52 | formi | is there anybody off to the fairs tomorrow? |
| 16:17.34 | zachary | formi: yes, I had planned on going sometime around noon. |
| 16:17.40 | Cope | How much can you pick up a box for? Just for playing with. |
| 16:17.52 | eye69 | Cope: Well, we'll see. :) *gone* |
| 16:17.52 | Cope | So nothing special. |
| 16:18.37 | Cope | zachary: Baby due in 19 days! |
| 16:18.45 | formi | my brother wants me to get him mb+ram+video card+chip |
| 16:19.16 | formi | so Im after somebody who follows the hardware market, |
| 16:19.23 | Wethrin | Heh: |
| 16:19.28 | zachary | Cope: Say good-bye to mental piece! |
| 16:19.29 | Wethrin | Have you hear they are developing an OO version of COLBOL? It's called "ADD ONE TO COBOL". |
| 16:19.31 | murble | formi: for very cheap? |
| 16:19.38 | murble | formi: does he care about performance? |
| 16:19.40 | zachary | s / peace / piece |
| 16:19.51 | formi | murble: he wants to play games |
| 16:20.07 | murble | formi: is he isn .es? |
| 16:20.07 | formi | but im agains to kick a machine, he could get addicted |
| 16:20.12 | formi | yeap |
| 16:20.21 | murble | formi: he should buy it in .es to get 2 year warrantee |
| 16:20.30 | formi | im off in ~2 weeks, so ill have to be quich |
| 16:20.41 | zachary | bbl, --> store |
| 16:20.43 | formi | s/quich/quick |
| 16:20.55 | murble | formi: what is the budget? |
| 16:21.01 | formi | murble: Im opened to 2nd hand machinery |
| 16:21.21 | murble | formi: you can buy a duro pcchips board with everything including 256mb of ram for under 100 quid |
| 16:21.23 | formi | about ?150 |
| 16:21.25 | murble | duron |
| 16:21.34 | murble | then you just need a disk and a case. |
| 16:21.40 | murble | and a keyboard. |
| 16:21.46 | murble | does he need a monitor? |
| 16:21.49 | murble | if so get it locally. |
| 16:21.50 | formi | it's for an upgrade so it's fine |
| 16:22.15 | formi | prices are not so great in .es |
| 16:22.24 | murble | what is the vat rate in .es? |
| 16:22.37 | formi | 1.5 points less than in here |
| 16:22.51 | murble | how much is delivery to .es from .uk? |
| 16:22.59 | murble | if you order form .uk company into .es you pay .es vat rate. |
| 16:23.07 | murble | but then you have to pay for them to take it. |
| 16:23.30 | formi | for 1.5%? too much trouble |
| 16:24.41 | formi | I was hopping for AMD k7 ~2Ghz, and a decent graphics card, +256MB/384MB |
| 16:28.16 | Cope | I want a box to mess about with; making servers, firewalls, etc. |
| 16:28.23 | Cope | Needs no X |
| 16:28.32 | Cope | Any old 486 would do, I guess,. |
| 16:28.49 | murble | no 486s are too slow |
| 16:29.02 | murble | i had to wait for stuff to build on a 486 the otherday, it was painful. |
| 16:29.05 | formi | Cope: you can get old brand names for about ?40 |
| 16:29.26 | formi | Cope: do check the fairs |
| 16:29.48 | Cope | Hmm. As much as 40 quid? |
| 16:30.15 | Cope | I don't need anything other than the box. |
| 16:30.28 | formi | pentium II with 64 megs |
| 16:30.56 | formi | i just went to http://www.morgan.co.uk/, and it came up funny |
| 16:39.11 | mozrat | Wethrin: My company is looking at possibly buying servers with technical support contracts from either RH or SuSE. |
| 16:39.37 | Wethrin | Go with SUSE :) |
| 16:39.47 | mozrat | They are a little worried about RH only having a one year lifespan for their distro (they are trying to escape the upgrade treadmill) |
| 16:40.04 | nasrat | mozrat: no it's 3 years for RHES/AS/WS IIRC |
| 16:40.05 | mozrat | Do you know how SuSE do this? |
| 16:40.08 | murble | mozrat: you don't ahve to buy the support contract from teh software vendor |
| 16:40.39 | mozrat | murble: Thats true but "the powers that be" want the assurance of hand holding from the vendor if they need it |
| 16:40.41 | Wethrin | I can't remember. I think it's a good few years that you get support for |
| 16:41.11 | murble | mozrat: so use debian and get a support contract from phil hands. |
| 16:41.19 | murble | mozrat: http://www.hands.com |
| 16:41.20 | mozrat | nasrat: In Linux Format this month there is an article suggesting that RH 9.0 is end of life on April 30th |
| 16:41.53 | mozrat | murble: I've been all the way to the bottom of that road and back |
| 16:42.04 | formi | murble: that might be dangerous! |
| 16:42.10 | mozrat | We had IBM in 2 days ago trying to arrange support on Debian |
| 16:42.12 | murble | formi: why? |
| 16:42.17 | nasrat | mozrat: yes that's true but if you are buying support you'll be going for RHES solution, there is no RH distro any more only fedora. See fedora legacy for support timescales |
| 16:42.31 | formi | murble: imagine if you suggest any other distro to him, :-) |
| 16:42.51 | Wethrin | Yes, but you don't want to be using Debian :) |
| 16:46.21 | formi | nasrat: what if you have a happy rh 7.3, is there a trouble-free update path to fedora? |
| 16:46.21 | nasrat | mozrat: http://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/rhlas_errata_policy.html and http://www.redhat.com/apps/support/errata/ - this was announced many many months ago |
| 16:47.10 | nasrat | formi: well two choices Fedora Legacy are going to be backporting errata, etc for probably 7.3 and 9 at least for a bit. Also you can apt/yum up to fedora not done it myself I think there is a faq |
| 16:48.06 | formi | I've never liked redhat, I even cried foul when I was asked to install 7.3, and now I might use the excuse to scrap it completely |
| 16:49.17 | formi | at the moment, Im setting up a mandrake box, to move everything to, as a temp server, for when we decide to do something about the redhat machine |
| 16:50.48 | formi | im even enjoying the idea of giving debian a go, at least it seems to have a more stable future, not depending on bloody shareholders |
| 16:51.09 | mozrat | Bah! be back soon |
| 16:51.19 | nasrat | formi: the point of fedora is it's not dependant on shareholders |
| 16:51.35 | formi | it's a very bad omen |
| 16:51.46 | nasrat | e.g I'm now contributing in a fairly major way to rpm-python (including cvs access) |
| 16:51.59 | formi | but in my language fedora means "she who really stinks" |
| 16:52.07 | nasrat | formi: really use what ever you want |
| 16:52.13 | Wethrin | formi: But that's quite appropriate ;-) |
| 16:53.10 | formi | i do not get what is the point of fedora at all |
| 16:53.29 | Wethrin | A free, community-supported RedHat-a-like |
| 16:53.35 | formi | are they trying to do another debian, reinvent they wheel |
| 16:54.13 | Wethrin | formi: Depends if their users start getting orgasms whenever keysigning is mentioned ;-) |
| 16:54.32 | formi | if redhat wants developers they can employ&pay them |
| 16:55.00 | nasrat | formi: lots of OSS projects have a company behind them. |
| 16:55.10 | formi | and I bet suse is going down the sink |
| 16:55.28 | Wethrin | No we're not |
| 16:56.33 | formi | just wait, till the CEO's start behaving in the usual U$ corporate way, and you'll get another redhat-like situation |
| 16:56.48 | formi | Wethrin: what for? |
| 16:57.12 | Cope | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:57.16 | Wethrin | We'll see.....but I think that even Novell knows the value of the home-user box sets |
| 16:57.28 | murble | Cope: yes. taht is why serious enterpireses use it. |
| 16:57.42 | murble | Cope: if you have the staff to support the systems you run does it matter? |
| 16:57.52 | Cope | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:57.56 | formi | Wethrin: red hat did as well, until they decided to shout to everybody, linux is not ready for the desktop |
| 16:57.59 | murble | and one linux distrbution is much of a likeness compared to anyother) |
| 16:58.34 | Wethrin | formi: And that means that we can get more customers. |
| 16:58.57 | murble | formi: that was IBM |
| 16:59.10 | Wethrin | murble: Yes, to some extent. Although it takes a little time to find out where configuration files have been hidden |
| 16:59.20 | formi | Wethrin: if your shareholders can wait more than redhat ones did |
| 16:59.32 | murble | Wethrin: yeah, but if you've got a brane that isn't difficult. |
| 17:00.13 | formi | THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE TECHNICAL PEOPLE |
| 17:00.19 | Wethrin | murble: That's true. But means you can't sit down and get a solution in 5 minutes - it might take 15 :) |
| 17:00.37 | murble | Wethrin: that is ok, as everyone knows 5 minute fixes take hours |
| 17:00.42 | murble | and cause more in damage |
| 17:00.43 | Wethrin | Very true |
| 17:00.45 | Wethrin | :) |
| 17:00.56 | murble | if it takes 15 minutes then it might be well thought out. |
| 17:01.11 | formi | murble: and x beers as well |
| 17:01.21 | Wethrin | Beers are an incentive to work faster |
| 17:01.31 | Cope | murble: What I meant was the average corporate buyer, given a choice between RHES with its commercial backing and Debian, as a non-commercial organisation with a lot of philosophical muttering, won't the company be more likely to take RH more seriously? |
| 17:01.33 | murble | Wethrin: oh you mean you didn't get the beers whilst doing the work? |
| 17:01.37 | murble | Wethrin: you need better clients! |
| 17:01.40 | Wethrin | murble: :-) |
| 17:02.05 | Wethrin | Oh, and if you want Londonbeer today, then you've been start moving. Otherwise, want a WycLUG meeting sometime this weekend? |
| 17:02.16 | murble | Cope: depends totally on the company. |
| 17:02.30 | formi | Cope: the average corporate buyer is the CEO, who is usually not very up to the job, and wants to just cover his own arse |
| 17:02.57 | Cope | murble: Yeah, just wondering what the sales pitch for debian over big commercial players. |
| 17:03.00 | murble | formi: oftern teh CEO will just sign things put in front of them after they've looked at the number of digits. |
| 17:03.19 | murble | Cope: well even HP sell Debian based solutions. |
| 17:03.27 | Wethrin | formi: The shareholders will be happy if the company makes money |
| 17:03.54 | Wethrin | If people use the Personal/Pro boxed sets and are happy, they're more likely to buy the server product range |
| 17:04.53 | Cope | wethrin: I never got the idea of 'boxed' sets. I first got into linux because it wasn't boxed, and I paided 2 quid for the disks. |
| 17:05.11 | Wethrin | formi: Not necessarily |
| 17:05.28 | nasrat | formi: are you saying that people like me aren't hardcore users? |
| 17:05.35 | formi | Cope: in my case it was boxed in 3 10-diskette boxes |
| 17:05.51 | nasrat | people will use what they are happy with using - freedom of choice no |
| 17:06.32 | formi | nasrat: Im not saying that you are not a hardcore user, or anything else but |
| 17:07.17 | formi | all these companies will tend to do/say something to annoy the most profficient users, |
| 17:07.36 | Cope | Also maybe I'm more philosophical. |
| 17:08.09 | Wethrin | Boxed sets give you manuals, and some support |
| 17:08.16 | formi | nasrat: they DO have marketing departments. |
| 17:08.42 | Cope | I've always disliked the commerciality of RH and the SuSE lisence. |
| 17:08.49 | Cope | How the hell do you spell lisence? |
| 17:09.00 | murble | license? |
| 17:09.01 | Wethrin | Licence. Plus it's a fallacy that people fall into |
| 17:09.03 | formi | in the reverse way as you did |
| 17:09.08 | murble | or licence |
| 17:09.09 | murble | ? |
| 17:09.11 | formi | license |
| 17:09.17 | Wethrin | That's the US spelling |
| 17:09.32 | Wethrin | You're not allowed to copy the SUSE discs, and sell them on. |
| 17:09.41 | Wethrin | You're welcome to copy the discs, and *give* them away. |
| 17:12.20 | Cope | I was refering to YaST |
| 17:12.41 | Cope | Which is kinda central. |
| 17:13.47 | Wethrin | Yes. |
| 17:13.50 | Wethrin | So was I |
| 17:14.23 | murble | do distrbute it without YaST, win win |
| 17:14.28 | Wethrin | heh |
| 17:14.37 | nasrat | distribute with apt and a recent version of rpm :P |
| 17:14.38 | murble | does anyone acutally use it? |
| 17:14.43 | Wethrin | The software inside is GPLed or BSD licenced |
| 17:14.45 | Wethrin | What? SUSE? |
| 17:14.49 | JD | just use Debian and be done with it |
| 17:14.54 | Cope | Tried installing suse without yast? |
| 17:14.56 | murble | Wethrin: what baout X? |
| 17:15.09 | murble | or tetex |
| 17:15.19 | Cope | The suse installer -is- yast! |
| 17:15.25 | Cope | Basically. |
| 17:16.20 | Cope | But there you see, I'm the kind of person who loses sleep over installing a distro using non-free software. |
| 17:16.46 | Wethrin | What about X? I use it |
| 17:16.51 | JD | Cope: you want Debian :) |
| 17:16.52 | Wethrin | JD: But Debian sucks :-P |
| 17:16.54 | JD | doh |
| 17:16.58 | Cope | jd: I do :o) |
| 17:17.17 | JD | Wethrin: so do prostitutes. I don't see anyone complaining about them |
| 17:17.18 | Wethrin | What about TeTeX, too? |
| 17:17.53 | Cope | murble: Was your point that X and TeTeX are neither GPLed nor BSD licenced? |
| 17:18.02 | Wethrin | X is MIT licenced, IIRC |
| 17:18.17 | Wethrin | Which is similar to the BSD licence, but from the other side of the country |
| 17:18.24 | Wethrin | And hence Completely Different |
| 17:21.10 | Wethrin | w00t :) Although I've got Open |
| 17:21.53 | Wethrin | What's support for Cisco Aeronet WLAN cards like under Linux? |
| 17:21.55 | formi | Wethrin: depends for what, I don't have Net, got Free, Open and Micro |
| 17:22.07 | Cope | You don;t hear people talking about the hurd very often, do you? |
| 17:22.08 | murble | Wethrin: the card i have works fine. |
| 17:22.24 | murble | Wethrin: there is a cisco tool inaddiona to iwcnofig thing that lets you tweak stuff. |
| 17:22.32 | nasrat | I thought it was a hermes chipset with a better radio antenna |
| 17:22.35 | formi | Wethrin: they are the best, they are supported on everything |
| 17:22.38 | Wethrin | Hmm. Some guy has a problem, transferring 1GB of data to an XP machine (which also has the same card) |
| 17:22.53 | formi | Wethrin: jeje |
| 17:23.11 | Wethrin | Any ideas? :) |
| 17:23.18 | Wethrin | It works transferring XP <--> XP |
| 17:23.22 | formi | I might be buying my second 350 tommorrow |
| 17:23.29 | murble | Wethrin: how does it fail? |
| 17:23.35 | murble | what protocol is used for the transfer etc? |
| 17:23.36 | nasrat | grr problem with packaging openssl at the end of the day is the test phase |
| 17:23.50 | murble | nasrat: depends on what arch what tests it runs |
| 17:24.14 | nasrat | indeed this is on my not too speedy laptop though |
| 17:24.14 | murble | and fewer people are using it now they've read the license. |
| 17:24.17 | Wethrin | They don't say |
| 17:24.28 | formi | Wethrin: there are loads of "registers" or something like that that are not documented |
| 17:24.36 | murble | Wethrin: does anything crash? |
| 17:24.48 | formi | windows might be using some of them |
| 17:24.50 | Wethrin | We've got 2 Cisco aironet networkcards |
| 17:24.51 | Wethrin | > (350 serie) connected to a Cisco air-ant3338 solid dish (the networkcard |
| 17:24.51 | Wethrin | > is connected to the dish with a coaxcable). We can make a connection to |
| 17:24.51 | Wethrin | > the windows xp computer and ping him, but when we want to send a packet |
| 17:24.51 | Wethrin | > of 1gb from the SuSU 8.2 to the Windows XP computer the connection is |
| 17:24.53 | Wethrin | > gone |
| 17:25.05 | nasrat | murble: what's up with the hurd licence? |
| 17:25.23 | Wethrin | If the ESSID is changed, and changed back, the networking works again |
| 17:25.53 | murble | Wethrin: oh they are running in ad-hoc mode? |
| 17:25.57 | Wethrin | Yes |
| 17:26.11 | formi | Wethrin: not helpful running on adhoc |
| 17:26.15 | murble | Wethrin: was the linux end in managed mode? |
| 17:26.52 | Wethrin | I don't know. That's all the information I've got |
| 17:27.52 | Wethrin | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:27.53 | Wethrin | > computer put it all the time on 7. |
| 17:29.24 | formi | Wethrin: are you running with encryption on? |
| 17:29.37 | Wethrin | Pass. |
| 17:29.46 | Wethrin | The guy didn't say |
| 17:30.09 | formi | i've never managed to get xp to use shared encryption |
| 17:30.26 | Wethrin | But it starts off working, then loses the connection |
| 17:31.04 | formi | what about power saving mode, that happens |
| 17:31.40 | Wethrin | Hmmm......any ideas how to stop it? |
| 17:32.25 | formi | in the xp machine it should be easy |
| 17:32.54 | Wethrin | You think it's the XP machine falling asleep? |
| 17:33.17 | formi | it's a remote possibilty |
| 17:33.23 | Wethrin | I'll say that :) |
| 17:34.52 | formi | in my case the sitecom running on host ap mode, is locked with power saving on, if i swith it on, on the xp machine with an orinoco it stops working after half a minute |
| 17:39.37 | formi | I don't know on xp, on freebsd you can set it to 50mw power |
| 17:39.56 | Wethrin | Right, well, I told him to try and turn power saving off |
| 17:40.09 | formi | on the card? |
| 17:40.24 | formi | not the pc apm or acpi |
| 17:40.25 | Wethrin | I just said that. I'm too tired to think cleary enough now :) |
| 17:40.32 | Wethrin | Yeah, on the card |
| 17:40.37 | Wethrin | I need STRONG coffee before pub. |
| 17:41.12 | Cope | what time do you think food might happen? |
| 17:41.23 | Wethrin | Around 8ish |
| 17:42.50 | Cope | Sophie doesn't want me to leave her on her own :o( |
| 17:43.12 | Wethrin | Bring her :) |
| 17:43.38 | Wethrin | Byee |
| 17:43.45 | Wethrin | :-/ |
| 17:43.54 | Wethrin | Well.....break for 2 hours? |
| 17:44.00 | Wethrin | Anyway, I'm gone. |
| 18:14.19 | *** part/#gllug formi (~formi@82-35-34-114.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:20.21 | *** join/#gllug SpudULike (~colin@82-35-39-221.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:35.08 | Cope | Hello SpudULike |
| 18:43.58 | SpudULike | Hi Cope, though you might have gone out for the emergency drink. |
| 18:47.31 | Cope | Decided not to, wanted to stay at home with Sophie. |
| 18:51.08 | Jenson | hiya Cope |
| 18:52.47 | JD | hi Jenson |
| 18:53.10 | Jenson | hiya JD |
| 18:57.49 | Cope | Hello |
| 19:01.54 | *** join/#gllug cupis (~paul@195.137.116.73) |
| 19:02.00 | JD | hi cupis |
| 19:02.11 | cupis | hi dpash |
| 19:06.44 | Jenson | hi cupis |
| 19:09.03 | Cope | Woo cupis! |
| 19:09.15 | Cope | I was just thinking of you today! |
| 19:09.29 | cupis | Hmmm.. |
| 19:11.04 | Jenson | lol |
| 19:57.43 | *** join/#gllug cupis (~paul@195.137.116.73) |
| 21:05.29 | *** join/#gllug Marios_ (~mkoumide@24.231.225.197) |
| 21:05.40 | Marios_ | hello people |
| 21:24.46 | *** join/#gllug stephanb (~frog@dsl-80-46-204-205.access.uk.tiscali.com) |
| 21:28.58 | *** join/#gllug Marios_ (~mkoumide@24.231.225.197) |
| 21:33.26 | new2unix | ping |
| 21:33.44 | stephanb | new2unix: yo wassup ? |
| 21:33.46 | Marios_ | pong |
| 21:34.10 | new2unix | hi Marios_. wazup stephanb. |
| 21:34.17 | Marios_ | hello guys |
| 21:34.35 | new2unix | no pub for you guys? |
| 21:34.50 | stephanb | new2unix: have i got news for you |
| 21:35.08 | new2unix | ian hislp's show? |
| 21:35.20 | stephanb | yeah |
| 21:38.24 | new2unix | stephanb, who's the moderator today? she has Mr T-like stuff round her neck. wasnt she a news presenter at some point? a rather respectable one at that? |
| 21:39.00 | stephanb | havent got a clue |
| 21:39.41 | stephanb | never heard her on radio or seen her on telly |
| 21:41.39 | new2unix | so how's your good mate, Emanuel? |
| 21:41.58 | stephanb | havent heard of him for weeks, he's hiding |
| 21:42.04 | stephanb | or he's fallen in love |
| 21:43.10 | new2unix | ...with yet another Will&Grace download? |
| 21:56.53 | Cope | Hello |
| 21:58.35 | stephanb | im going to bed |
| 22:01.29 | new2unix | seeya stephanb |
| 22:02.56 | stephanb | new2unix: seeya ! |
| 22:03.14 | *** part/#gllug stephanb (~frog@dsl-80-46-204-205.access.uk.tiscali.com) |
| 22:03.57 | Marios_ | hey guys...anybody is using samba? |
| 22:05.08 | new2unix | Marios_, i have used it briefly in the past. |
| 22:05.32 | Marios_ | I am trying to change to a directory with spaces |
| 22:05.47 | Marios_ | I know there is a trick to do it...but I forgot |
| 22:06.44 | *** join/#gllug mozrat (~simonmorr@host81-130-55-97.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 22:06.59 | new2unix | to cd to a directory with spaces? ho about using quotes? |
| 22:07.12 | Marios_ | ohhh maybe that's the way |
| 22:07.14 | Marios_ | let me try |
| 22:07.51 | mozrat | Or\ you\ can\ put\ backslashes\ between\ parts\ of\ the\ directory\ name |
| 22:07.55 | mozrat | Like that |
| 22:08.02 | new2unix | or even try wildcards. example: cd My* should take you to My Program Files. |
| 22:09.19 | Marios_ | cool |
| 22:09.24 | Marios_ | I tried " " |
| 22:09.29 | Marios_ | it works fine |
| 22:10.22 | Marios_ | even the cd Docu* works for directory Documents and Settings |
| 22:11.11 | Marios_ | and even this works as well: cd Documents\ and\ Settings |
| 22:12.49 | new2unix | good to hear :) |
| 22:15.31 | Marios_ | you are not new 2 unix then ;) |
| 22:17.16 | new2unix | its just a name that wasnt taken at the time :) |
| 22:19.05 | Marios_ | hehehhehe |
| 22:19.16 | Marios_ | so are you in London? |
| 22:21.06 | new2unix | yep. you? |
| 22:23.02 | Marios_ | Michigan, USA |
| 22:23.32 | Jenson | well, Emmanuel wasnt in love when i saew him last weekend |
| 22:23.35 | new2unix | how did you find us? GLLUG that is. |
| 22:24.37 | Marios_ | I am moving in London in a year so I was looking for a nice Linux club |
| 22:24.49 | *** join/#gllug Leeds_mac (~Leeds_mac@future-is.orange.co.uk) |
| 22:25.01 | Cope | Woo Leeds_mac |
| 22:25.09 | Jenson | heya Leeds_mac |
| 22:25.27 | Jenson | bonsoir Leeds_mac |
| 22:25.36 | Marios_ | Hello Leeds !! I wasn't expecting you |
| 22:25.40 | Leeds_mac | debating either going to bed or going out on the town... (2325 here) |
| 22:25.50 | Jenson | Leeds_mac: becx |
| 22:25.57 | Jenson | erm |
| 22:25.59 | Jenson | bed even |
| 22:25.59 | Cope | becx? |
| 22:26.07 | Cope | Ah |
| 22:26.17 | Leeds_mac | see... I want to go to bed... but it feels like wasting the night... |
| 22:26.36 | Cope | Leeds_mac: Absolutely! When do you come back? |
| 22:26.43 | Jenson | Leeds_mac: go out, find a woman, go to bed |
| 22:26.44 | Leeds_mac | Sunday evening |
| 22:26.49 | new2unix | Marios_, contrary to popular belief we are actually a pleasant lot here. its true isnt it folks? |
| 22:27.04 | Marios_ | hehehheh |
| 22:27.07 | Cope | Leeds_mac: Then I would make the most of Friday night in Paris! Do you have someone to hang out with? |
| 22:27.12 | Marios_ | so Leeds .... when are coming back ? |
| 22:27.24 | Jenson | Marios_: don't trust him, he's strange...i mean he's a friend of mine lol |
| 22:27.33 | Leeds_mac | new2unix: here #gllug or here London, or what? |
| 22:27.33 | Leeds_mac | Marios_: Sunday evening |
| 22:27.48 | Marios_ | lol |
| 22:27.58 | Leeds_mac | this GPRS thing is probably hugely expensive - but is very usable... |
| 22:28.04 | Marios_ | Leeds << are you in hotel now ? |
| 22:28.15 | Cope | Sophie is coming to gllug on the 6th! (Nature permitting) |
| 22:28.26 | Jenson | Cope: cool |
| 22:28.42 | new2unix | Leeds_mac, here #gllug |
| 22:29.01 | Cope | London |
| 22:29.08 | Cope | Not especially friendly. |
| 22:29.10 | Jenson | i think I'll be at gllug with Stephan, coz my boyfriend is working so i think I'll come hang out with you loy |
| 22:29.11 | Cope | gllug |
| 22:29.20 | Cope | Very friendly! |
| 22:29.24 | Jenson | i'm very friendly, im a flirt |
| 22:29.31 | Cope | s/flirt/tart |
| 22:29.35 | Marios_ | ohhh you guys all gonna have fun there :( |
| 22:30.46 | Jenson | Cope: wont Sophie get tired coming out to gllug so near the time |
| 22:31.04 | *** join/#gllug Leeds_mac (~Leeds_mac@future-is.orange.co.uk) |
| 22:31.14 | Marios_ | wb Leeds_mac |
| 22:31.30 | Cope | Jenson: She should be okay, as long as she can sit down. |
| 22:31.43 | Cope | Her tummy is *massive* though. |
| 22:31.46 | Leeds_mac | not entirely reliable, GPRS roaming :-) |
| 22:31.58 | Leeds_mac | Cope: any job news? |
| 22:32.26 | Cope | Leeds_mac: Got a call from a few agents, no interviews yet. |
| 22:32.40 | Leeds_mac | :-( |
| 22:32.59 | Jenson | Cope: well, at least that means i should recognize her, dont think we have any other expectant mothers at gllug ATM |
| 22:33.04 | new2unix | Leeds_mac, 56K gprs or faster? |
| 22:33.28 | Leeds_mac | new2unix: dunno, to be honest... |
| 22:34.15 | Leeds_mac | I'm not going to do any bandwidth testing, since I'm paying by the byte :-) |
| 22:34.36 | mozrat | Cope: Did you have any luck with the recruitment guy I told you about? |
| 22:34.49 | Cope | mozrat: He's off till Tuesday. |
| 22:35.03 | Cope | mozrat: /msg me your email address again? |
| 22:35.07 | new2unix | Orange called us at work sometime last week with the offer of unlimited bacndwith for, i think it was, GBP100 one off payment plus GBP25/month. Is that what youve got? i think they were saying it was at 56K. |
| 22:35.59 | Leeds_mac | nah, that's business only, I'm on one of the lowest-level GPRS things... and I doubt it'd cover roaming anyway |
| 22:36.03 | new2unix | Leeds_mac, it was a gprs offer of course. |
| 22:36.44 | Leeds_mac | ? |
| 22:37.18 | Jenson | whats the difference between analogue and digital cordless phones? |
| 22:37.32 | Leeds_mac | quality, security, features |
| 22:37.43 | new2unix | Leeds_mac, yeah i guess youre right cos they kept on asking how many laptop users we had and how many worked from home. |
| 22:37.54 | Jenson | but both types work on normal phone networks? |
| 22:38.19 | Leeds_mac | it's part of their "set your laptop free" things designed to get companies to sign up so employees can work anywhere over GPRS |
| 22:38.30 | Leeds_mac | Jenson: yes of course |
| 22:39.21 | mozrat | Even in a tent of the north side of the eiger according to the TV |
| 22:39.30 | Leeds_mac | hmm... nearly midnight and I'm feeling awake... I think I'll go out for a wander see what I can find... |
| 22:40.02 | Leeds_mac | g'night all... |
| 22:40.04 | Marios_ | what's the biggest GSM company in UK ? |
| 22:40.25 | Leeds_mac | Marios_: varies between Vodafone and Orange, I think |
| 22:40.33 | Leeds_mac | /quit time to go find the nightlife |
| 22:40.35 | Leeds_mac | bah! |
| 22:40.42 | Jenson | my ISP is stupid |
| 22:40.48 | *** part/#gllug Leeds_mac (~Leeds_mac@future-is.orange.co.uk) |
| 22:41.05 | Marios_ | Jenson << what happened? |
| 22:41.12 | Jenson | they are stopping providing pop access unless you pay extra for it as far as i can see from this help file |
| 22:41.34 | Jenson | us they are deleting all sub accounts and making you sign up again, so I'll lose my email addresses |
| 22:42.10 | Jenson | wankers |
| 22:43.43 | Marios_ | that's why I never use my ISP's email address |
| 22:44.25 | Marios_ | you can either choose an web based free account or just register a domain name and hosting solution for about $30 a year |
| 22:44.36 | Jenson | yeh good point i still have my hotmail, which is the only place i dont get spam |
| 22:44.48 | Jenson | yeh and i also want to get around to registering a domain |
| 22:44.51 | new2unix | Marios_, wise decision. its better to get an independent email address that you can carry with you. |
| 22:45.25 | Marios_ | exactly |
| 22:45.30 | murble | yeah, but it can be over done :) |
| 22:45.33 | Jenson | yeh well i have webbased access to it too |
| 22:45.44 | Jenson | which i use half the time these days as tghe pop is screwed |
| 22:45.46 | Marios_ | I have changed lots of providers...and always loosing emails from friends |
| 22:46.01 | Marios_ | so i register my own domain..and I have no problems that way |
| 22:46.04 | new2unix | murble, over done? |
| 22:46.28 | murble | new2unix: yeah, you can have lots of email addresses that you own and control and people never know which one to use :) |
| 22:46.38 | Marios_ | hhehe exactly |
| 22:47.48 | Marios_ | is anybody here hosting a domain name in his/her own PC ? |
| 22:48.01 | Cope | Marios_: Yep |
| 22:48.06 | new2unix | murble, thats like having too many cars or living in an 8 bedroom mansion. i really dont see the point. was never a great fan of extravagance. |
| 22:48.16 | Marios_ | Cope << what connection do you have ? |
| 22:48.36 | Cope | Marios_: Sorry, I misread your question, I thought you were asking about email. |
| 22:48.47 | murble | new2unix: yeah, but with domains it is far too easy. |
| 22:48.53 | Marios_ | Cope even that |
| 22:48.54 | Jenson | Marios_: yeh my mate is |
| 22:48.59 | Jenson | I'm not, I'm on dial-up |
| 22:49.21 | Marios_ | I am talking about register a domain name and for IP you provide the static IP of your PC |
| 22:49.29 | Marios_ | so you host anything ...from email to web |
| 22:50.12 | murble | Marios_: you can do that, but you may want atleast a backup, and it is much nicer to have web pages served on a faster link. |
| 22:50.42 | Cope | Marios_: I have a demon-provided static-ip on adsl; but run my own mail-server. |
| 22:51.03 | murble | Cope: how crap have demon been of late? |
| 22:51.20 | Marios_ | murble << Yeah probably will be slow...but it would be nice experience |
| 22:52.19 | murble | Marios: if you are going to do that sort of thing it is much nicer to do it on a colocated machine. |
| 22:52.55 | Marios_ | murble << absolutely...but I will do the colocated machine after I come over in London and get a job |
| 22:53.44 | Cope | murble: They had a dns wibble for an hour last week, but fine other than that. |
| 22:54.21 | murble | Cope: you use their recusive dns?! |
| 22:54.26 | Marios_ | what is that site that assigns name to dynamic IPs ? |
| 22:55.00 | murble | Marios_: you mean dynamic dns? |
| 22:55.04 | Marios_ | yeah |
| 22:55.29 | murble | oh you can even do that yourself, but there is no point in getting a dynamic ip address, and if you do, you certainly do not want normal smtp delviered to it. |
| 22:55.52 | Marios_ | how to do it by myself ? |
| 22:56.13 | murble | Marios: you run an authrotive nameserver, and permit dynamic updates. |
| 22:56.22 | Marios_ | hmmm I see |
| 22:57.00 | murble | you can then dynamicly updated from anywhere using signed requets, or alternativly you can get a client simular to the one you'd use to some of the commerical services which communcates with a server running on the named box. |
| 22:58.07 | murble | I've used teh DHIS client/server thing. |
| 22:58.27 | murble | with a hacked client, so it binds() before sending packets back to the server to allow it to work from behind nat boxen. |
| 23:00.46 | Marios_ | cool |
| 23:00.56 | Cope | murble: Is that unwise? |
| 23:00.59 | Marios_ | since you mentioned NAT |
| 23:01.31 | Marios_ | when I am behind NAT I can't run in all PCs ident server for IRC |
| 23:01.47 | murble | Cope: otherwise it sends the reply from a random high ephemeral port that isn't the same as the incoming port, so it won't get back through the NAT box. |
| 23:02.13 | murble | Marios_: So you give each PC an IP address and don't NAT, end of problem. |
| 23:02.34 | murble | the machine that uses DHIS is on a network with a single IPv4 and IPv6 address froma cablenetwork. |
| 23:03.08 | Marios_ | give each PC public IP ? |
| 23:04.30 | murble | Marios_: yeah, a static one at that. |
| 23:04.35 | murble | saves having to NAT |
| 23:04.48 | Marios_ | well it costs extra more IPs |
| 23:05.27 | Marios_ | I have only one IP on my cable/router and the other PCs have 192.168.1.100 .101 .102 .103 .104 |
| 23:05.40 | murble | Marios_: IP addresses don't cost money. |
| 23:06.07 | Marios_ | here they do |
| 23:06.42 | Marios_ | you mean your provider doesn't charge you more ? |
| 23:06.46 | murble | nope |
| 23:06.54 | Marios_ | this is cool |
| 23:06.58 | murble | I pay eclipse.net.uk about 23 quid / month for /29 |
| 23:07.07 | Marios_ | sweet |
| 23:07.10 | murble | if you want more than 8 you have to use a more expensive service though. |
| 23:07.17 | murble | other ISPs don't have that restriction. |
| 23:07.18 | Marios_ | here is $5 / month each extra IP |
| 23:07.31 | murble | Marios: I don't think you are supposed to sell IP addresses. |
| 23:07.56 | Marios_ | well all the providers here they so sell IPs |
| 23:08.02 | Marios_ | so/do |
| 23:08.18 | murble | Marios: here you just have to justify them, since we are in europe we get our addresses from RIPE rather than ARIN. |
| 23:08.27 | new2unix | same with zen.co.uk GBP27 / mounth for 8 IPs |
| 23:08.45 | Marios_ | probably this is the reasonb |
| 23:08.46 | murble | new2unix: yeah more expensive, and they don't let you set in-addr.arpa. |
| 23:08.57 | murble | and they'v erecently had a rather broken network... |
| 23:09.06 | murble | although their mailsystem is much better. |
| 23:09.16 | new2unix | yeah. ive had a few problems of late. :! |
| 23:09.30 | new2unix | dont use their mailsystem |
| 23:09.40 | Marios_ | so when they give you like 8 IPs how do you setup a small router ?? you assigned on each PC the static one ? |
| 23:11.25 | new2unix | out of the 8 you can use only 5 for your individual PCs |
| 23:14.27 | Marios_ | can I still run DHCP with these 8 IPs ? |
| 23:16.08 | new2unix | yes. my router is a dhcp server and wireless accesspoint. and also a 4port switch amongst others |
| 23:16.31 | new2unix | am i the only one that loves watching the output of tethereal scroll by? |
| 23:19.59 | Marios_ | hehehheheeh |
| 23:20.09 | Marios_ | I do it sometimes |
| 23:20.27 | Marios_ | especially when I have friends using the other PCs ? |
| 23:48.25 | Jenson | time for sleep |
| 23:48.27 | Jenson | night people |
| 23:48.35 | Cope | nn |
| 23:48.49 | Jenson | night Cope |