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| 07:43.25 | mvta | morning mates |
| 07:45.25 | farconada | morning |
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| 08:00.05 | skurfuerst | good morning everybody |
| 08:00.50 | fischli | good morning |
| 08:38.16 | mneuhaus | good morning |
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| 09:38.29 | afoeder | heyho and good... morning |
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| 10:14.18 | afoeder | consider this as a survey; what do you think about the idea to enable the configuration of default classes in tagBasedViewHelpers, i.e. that e.g. every form.textfield viewhelper automatically has a class "txtBox" or such... |
| 10:17.27 | mneuhaus | what do you want to achieve by that? only thing it would make sense to me is to differentiate between different input types in older browsers |
| 10:23.54 | ChristianM | afoeder you can easily define that on a project by project basis |
| 10:24.07 | ChristianM | create yourself partials that contain nothing but one specific form viewhelper |
| 10:24.32 | ChristianM | that way your form fields can have the same classes everywhere without duplicating code |
| 10:28.55 | afoeder | ChristianM: so if I would like to render one I'd include the partial instead of the VH itself? |
| 10:29.24 | ChristianM | right |
| 10:29.39 | afoeder | and how do I pass the varying attributes? |
| 10:29.59 | ChristianM | in some defined format you decide upon |
| 10:30.27 | ChristianM | for an example look into the conference package |
| 10:30.31 | ChristianM | bastian has done it there |
| 10:30.45 | afoeder | ah, ok, I'll do, thanks |
| 10:31.08 | ChristianM | I mean, a partial can have arguments that are available as variables inside |
| 10:31.58 | afoeder | and mneuhaus: what you said is one reason; one more reason could be if you have "purpose classes", eg. "gray-gradient" or "round-corners4px" or so... |
| 10:32.21 | mneuhaus | ok, that could be another reason :) |
| 10:32.30 | afoeder | but ChristianM, in my partial I than have to regard every possible attribute, right? And a not-set attribut would then result in an empty attrib |
| 10:34.19 | afoeder | I don't know how the internals work, but don't we run into the '' !== NULL problem? |
| 10:35.05 | afoeder | i.e. ommitting the attribute at all would be NULL, passing it empty would be '' . |
| 10:35.34 | afoeder | and with that partial idea all not-set attributes would become empty-but-set attributes. |
| 10:39.09 | fischli | in general I'd like to have a more flexible class handling, e.g. it's not that easy (to me) in combination with a css framework like bootstrap, to get the pagination widget appearence as expected |
| 10:39.28 | fischli | I'd like to customize the class names for those viewhelpers |
| 10:40.06 | afoeder | yeah, this could also be done with a clever configuration syntax :-P |
| 10:41.31 | fischli | why not ... customized settings for every viewhelper would be nice |
| 10:43.04 | mneuhaus | i tried to use the pagination widget yesterday, but i was kind of bummed by the uri handling :/ |
| 10:44.22 | mneuhaus | because of that i moved the pagination logik ("which i had already anyway") and moved it to a simple viewhelper which i can style and position as i need it with bootstrap :) |
| 10:45.51 | fischli | so I should take a look at your implementation of pagination ;-) |
| 10:46.16 | mneuhaus | i haven't pushed it to github yet, but i can put up the things you need if you like |
| 10:46.19 | afoeder | mneuhaus, kinda off topic here; but: I assume you have "some" bootstrap experience? :) |
| 10:46.36 | mneuhaus | the admin package is completly based on bootstrap :) |
| 10:46.51 | afoeder | should I consider this a "yes"? :-P |
| 10:46.57 | mneuhaus | yea :) |
| 10:47.12 | mneuhaus | here's my pagination with bootstrap: |
| 10:47.12 | mneuhaus | https://skitch.com/apocalip/gcrfh/address-list-admin |
| 10:47.50 | afoeder | I've just a very basic, single question: am I right that, with bootstrap, it's pretty hard and not intended, to create web pages with a complete, Photo-Shop generated layout? |
| 10:48.59 | mneuhaus | hmm, haven't tried it for that purpose yet. But i guess it shouldn't be a problem, you have a grid, fluid containers, and everything else |
| 10:49.05 | afoeder | I believe (and only believe) it's more a "take it as it is" solution. |
| 10:49.17 | mneuhaus | kind of |
| 10:49.22 | afoeder | like Magento, e.g. (SCNR) |
| 10:49.49 | fischli | mneuhaus: I do not have a skitch account :-( |
| 10:49.51 | mneuhaus | this framework has the best toolkit to build a real web app i've seen so far |
| 10:50.04 | mneuhaus | you don't need to, it is just a screenshot |
| 10:50.22 | fischli | I do not see it |
| 10:50.33 | mneuhaus | https://img.skitch.com/20111129-ruqusngjnprk4jefxtfqyw38qt.jpg |
| 10:50.37 | afoeder | because for the start of the project I evaluated many "new technology" solutions, because working in a company froze my knowledge about those a bit |
| 10:51.13 | mneuhaus | but i don't think bootstrap will constrain you in any way |
| 10:51.26 | afoeder | and I came to the end that nothing really fitted, and started building everything from scratch and using MooTools; like I used to for many years. |
| 10:52.16 | afoeder | even the grid system from Bootstrap: can I implement my own dividers/overall size? |
| 10:52.42 | mneuhaus | since i started the admin package in early 2010 i created a whole lot of css for the complete ui just based on a simple grid. Then i evaluated Bootstrap a few weeks ago and completly replaced my old css with bootstrap in about 2 days :D |
| 10:52.57 | mneuhaus | yes, you can easily, because it uses less |
| 10:53.27 | afoeder | we're both talking about that "Bootstrap, from Twitter", right? |
| 10:53.33 | mneuhaus | exactly |
| 10:53.38 | afoeder | (just to avoid basic confusion :) |
| 10:53.48 | mneuhaus | no, we're on the same page here :) |
| 10:54.09 | afoeder | you know, I expect running in the following problem: |
| 10:54.59 | mneuhaus | fishli: have you got an e-mail for me? i'll send you the code in about 45 min, gotta got to lunch first |
| 10:55.48 | afoeder | with a classical, *technical* GUI it is not much important if the pixel-layout matches the result in the browser; because a grid is a grid, a chart is a chart, and a tab ctrl is a tab ctrl; everything will be fine if it just looks good. You know, "the UI is good as-is, and it's ok to change the color and well." |
| 10:57.38 | afoeder | let's consider a challenge: Imagine I tell you "build xing.com (or facebook, ...) with bootstrap, no one should see the difference". Would one be able to do? |
| 10:57.40 | fischli | mneuhaus: I'll send you an e-mail |
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| 10:58.10 | mneuhaus | i'm quite positive you could do it |
| 10:58.20 | afoeder | hm. wow... |
| 10:58.26 | afoeder | I didn't expect that. |
| 10:58.36 | mneuhaus | afoeder: lett us continue later, i've got to go to lunch now, my coworker is getting hungry ;) |
| 10:58.43 | afoeder | yes o'course.. |
| 10:58.49 | afoeder | enjoy your meal! |
| 10:58.55 | mneuhaus | thanks |
| 11:03.55 | foertel | dumm di dumm |
| 11:03.58 | foertel | $this->arguments['cart']->getPropertyMappingConfiguration()->allowCreationForPath('/attendees\.NEW(\.eventgroups.NEW[0-9]+(\.events.NEW[0-9]+)*)*/'); |
| 11:04.10 | foertel | *cough* ;) skurfürst not around anymore ... too bad |
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| 12:09.31 | mneuhaus | re |
| 12:18.37 | mneuhaus | afoeder: as i said, i'm quite confident that allthough Bootstrap provides quite a finished styling by default it won't limit you to achieve almost any desired output :) |
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| 12:43.00 | afoeder | mneuhaus: ok, hm... will see when I'll be able to spend the time for a deeper insight... |
| 12:43.41 | afoeder | unfortunately the "framework decision phase" is over already... :) |
| 12:47.39 | mneuhaus | ^^ |
| 12:50.06 | mneuhaus | since i found bootstrap it became my absolute favorite css framework :) good grids, good typography, good table styles, awesome font-styles and quite some more goodies |
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| 12:55.00 | afoeder | may I ask if you have an open-accessible customer project out there running with bs? |
| 12:55.31 | mneuhaus | currently not, no |
| 12:58.30 | afoeder | I'm still feared and doubtful if it allows me freedom in layout.. |
| 12:58.55 | mneuhaus | which framework you use now? |
| 12:59.02 | mneuhaus | or do you do it all by yourself? |
| 12:59.58 | afoeder | well, for my CSS I have "normalize.css" at the bottom, and for JS I use MooTools. But that's all "framwork". |
| 13:04.59 | mneuhaus | quite minimal :) |
| 13:05.56 | afoeder | well; I really came back to this philosophy... I evaluated boilerplate and many other things; but as said: I saw drawbacks in "layoutability". |
| 13:06.09 | mneuhaus | most of bootstrap's functionality isn't forced onto you. aside from the forms and typography everything else is basically activated through quite sensible classes |
| 13:06.28 | afoeder | I was told, "for a site where the exact layout is not that important; it should just look good", those framworks were the way to go. |
| 13:07.31 | afoeder | but not at least an important thing, of course, is the fact that I have massive experience in MooTools |
| 13:10.59 | afoeder | but on the other hand, I have to admit that I'm pretty stucking at the moment because of the GUI of my project... |
| 13:11.11 | afoeder | it's very hard to implement. |
| 13:13.24 | mneuhaus | what is hard about it? |
| 13:13.50 | mneuhaus | i'm more a jQuery guy ^^ |
| 13:14.28 | afoeder | yeah, most people are jquery guys... it became pretty famous. |
| 13:17.27 | mneuhaus | do you have an example what is hard about your gui? |
| 13:18.44 | afoeder | ah you know, well, mostly AJAX stuff... in-place editing, validation, attaching multiple images inline (that also means upload in background), etc. pp... |
| 13:20.04 | afoeder | and as always, the "difference" between page elements that come from the page itself and those that are added dynamically via javascript (i.e. created from scratch) |
| 13:23.37 | mneuhaus | i always try to make the html as compatible as possible which is generated, but i know it isn't really easy :) |
| 13:24.56 | mneuhaus | i once made all form styles from about 4 different extensions (mailform, comments, ...) in a TYPO3 environment to behave exactly the same. that was quite an undertaking |
| 13:31.51 | afoeder | yeah, believe it. I spent a lot of time with TYPO3 :) |
| 13:38.38 | mneuhaus | i'm kind of toying with the idea of a different name for the admin package more in line with the FLOW3, Fluid, etc terminology |
| 13:40.17 | mneuhaus | like Werft, Shipyard, harbour or something similar |
| 13:48.37 | afoeder | ah... cool idea. |
| 13:48.39 | mneuhaus | or Pipe (to channel the flowing fluid :D) |
| 13:48.42 | afoeder | Port :) |
| 13:49.49 | mneuhaus | one thing i want to minimize by that is the use of a to general term "Admin" because bad for google and such |
| 13:50.08 | mneuhaus | port sounds good as well :) |
| 13:50.39 | afoeder | yeah, was just a reflex response, but I like it too :) |
| 13:51.32 | mneuhaus | i kind of like the meaning of werft or shipyard in the sense that it is meant to build something for the "water" :) |
| 13:51.36 | afoeder | "Pilot", but people would think of aviation too much times. |
| 13:52.00 | afoeder | ..and I meant Port in the sense of.. ehm.. Hafen, you know :) |
| 13:52.30 | mneuhaus | yea, i know :) |
| 13:53.04 | afoeder | ok :) wasn't sure if you got that relation. Port has many meanings :-P |
| 13:53.19 | mneuhaus | :P |
| 13:53.52 | afoeder | hm as said.. Pilot has the two relations, "controlling something" and the water-thing; but as said: people would think of aviation first |
| 13:54.25 | afoeder | yaye... my english is like my three-year-old-daughter's german.... |
| 13:54.54 | mneuhaus | ^^ i agree, Pilot would be confusing :/ |
| 13:55.52 | mneuhaus | conduit, canal, pipe (to channel the flow) |
| 13:55.55 | afoeder | hm it's a pity; many wordings are "better" in german... e.g. "Watergate" |
| 13:56.29 | mneuhaus | ich meine man könnte ja auch ein deutsches wort nehmen ;) |
| 13:56.42 | afoeder | Schleuse... |
| 13:56.45 | afoeder | :) |
| 13:57.05 | afoeder | but doesn't look pretty, typographically |
| 13:57.33 | mneuhaus | yea, not really, and it would make more sense for something todo with security :) |
| 13:58.19 | mneuhaus | what do you think about Werft? I think it doesn't look to bad in english |
| 13:58.31 | afoeder | yeah that's right... |
| 13:59.19 | mneuhaus | trockendock ^^ |
| 13:59.51 | afoeder | :-D or... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conning_tower |
| 13:59.57 | afoeder | "Conn" |
| 14:00.31 | afoeder | "often armored": Admin is also, isn't it? :) |
| 14:00.37 | mneuhaus | ^^ |
| 14:00.49 | mneuhaus | hmm, i kind of like it, but it goes quite deep into nautical terms :) |
| 14:01.56 | afoeder | agree... |
| 14:03.40 | mneuhaus | klabautermann |
| 14:04.08 | afoeder | :-D |
| 14:05.10 | afoeder | Captain Iglu... |
| 14:05.18 | afoeder | (haha that'S good-...) |
| 14:09.28 | mneuhaus | i'll toy with it a little more :) i've compiled an initial list in the github wiki :) |
| 14:09.44 | afoeder | hehe ok :) |
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| 14:37.23 | afoeder | yikes mneuhaus you've discovered my twitter account :P |
| 14:38.04 | ChristianM | ok, in that case you can post it here anyway :) |
| 14:38.12 | ChristianM | makes it easier for me |
| 14:38.58 | mneuhaus | lol |
| 14:39.05 | mneuhaus | was it a secrret? |
| 14:39.34 | ChristianM | no, I don't know, I am just too lazy to search |
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| 15:32.01 | afoeder | anybody already having breathtaking tips for PhpStorm 3.0? |
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| 15:44.35 | afoeder | ...I also sometimes think about a syntax that makes correlations between css classes and the controller/view |
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| 16:37.22 | cubert2 | would it be possible to improve such error messages: #1: Warning: htmlspecialchars() expects parameter 1 to be string, object given in .../Data/Temporary/Development/Cache/Code/FLOW3_Object_Classes/TYPO3_Fluid_Core_ViewHelper_TagBuilder_Original.php line 140 |
| 16:37.22 | cubert2 | to something like this: |
| 16:37.22 | cubert2 | #1: Warning: htmlspecialchars() expects parameter 1 to be string, object[mypackage\myobject] given ...... |
| 16:37.38 | cubert2 | that would improve the productivity a lot i guess |
| 16:38.19 | afoeder | yes, make a feature request at php.net :-P |
| 16:38.30 | cubert2 | ok :-P |
| 16:38.31 | afoeder | that's a plain php error message, it doesn't come from FLOW3 |
| 16:38.45 | cubert2 | ah ok, i didnt notice |
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