| 00:03:44 | gazer | nikos: I kinda have an m1 hostname. Why? |
| 00:06:01 | a7r | hey.. |
| 00:08:10 | gazer | a7r: I've been looking through some of the familiar framework code. I'm seeing old dates on the CVS checkin times, though. Is there anything newer to look at? |
| 00:08:44 | a7r | gazer: yes, but there's no serious change to the underlying framework. |
| 00:09:37 | gazer | a7r: are you still the champion of that code or is there someone else who is working with it? I have some thoughts. I might actually have time to put into this now that I have a demo of my research stuff running on the ipaq ... :) |
| 00:11:20 | a7r | gazer: It's primarily me for everything in the framework.. Morph has done some work on Mingle. |
| 00:12:09 | nikos | gazer: rr-56-24-100.atl.mediaone.net? |
| 00:12:46 | gazer | nikos: huh? Is that my machine? Nope. |
| 00:12:59 | gazer | a7r: mingle? Is that one of the apps? |
| 00:13:06 | nikos | gazer: OK. That one is leaving some questionable trails on h0. |
| 00:13:48 | cworth | a7r: OK, my install-menu now passes the Debian diff test for blackbox with a 371-entry menu. |
| 00:13:59 | gazer | nikos: not me. I'm coming in off of an snet DSL line. My MA apartment has a mediaone line. |
| 00:14:00 | cworth | a7r: good evening, BTW. |
| 00:24:31 | a7r | cworth: hah, nice to see you to. :) |
| 00:24:39 | a7r | gazer: yup.. it's a contact manager. |
| 00:26:54 | gazer | a7r: ah. okay. I'm going to try to throw together an app launcher-type thing on top of the familiar framework stuff in my CFT this week, I think. I have some ideas on the framework I'd like to discuss with you at some point, but I need to split soon and haven't actually played with it enough to sound intelligent ... :) |
| 00:28:03 | a7r | gazer: OKay. |
| 00:28:13 | a7r | There's a bunch of code that needs to be written, that I haven't done yet.. |
| 00:28:37 | a7r | the biggest thing being the persistent OO DB backend that runs as a daemon. |
| 00:29:22 | gazer | a7r: any chance I could get a braindump from you at some point as to where the framework itself is going? Even if I find myself without coding time, I can help conceptually, all my research is on component frameworks. |
| 00:30:01 | a7r | gazer: nod.. sure. |
| 00:30:08 | a7r | I should probably type something up anyway. |
| 00:31:21 | gazer | a7r: don't tell me we're talking SQL for the persistant store ... :) I don't think I could stomach it ... :) |
| 00:31:27 | a7r | No. |
| 00:31:42 | gazer | is happy. |
| 00:32:05 | a7r | the back-end is going to be Sleepycat based, with freezedried Python objects.. |
| 00:32:31 | a7r | using Python-based system for remote method calls of objects. |
| 00:33:34 | gazer | a7r: well, I think I broached this idea before, but I'm not sure. The persistance layer doesn't need to be tied to the application. I'd have : app -> data manager -> persistance manager. The app and the persistance manager never speak. This gives the ability to change type and data systems at will. |
| 00:35:28 | a7r | gazer: the persistent storage is just responsible for storing classes, and instantiated objects.. the app never needs to really know anything about objects except for what interfaces they support. |
| 00:35:34 | gazer | This also means that the an app that wants some subset of another's data, i.e., the date book wanting todo items, doesn't need to know how the todo app stores, it only needs to get back data from the data manager, which can be munged without needing to tell the app too much information about the other data store. |
| 00:36:13 | a7r | we're probably on the same page, with different terminology. |
| 00:36:42 | gazer | a7r: yeah, I think we are. We've had this issue before, I think ... :) |
| 00:38:33 | gazer | ick. I need to head out. I'll be back later or tomorrow. |
| 00:38:40 | a7r | nod. |
| 00:38:45 | a7r | I'm out for the night most likely.. |
| 00:38:54 | a7r | gazer: you going to Usenix? |
| 00:39:07 | gazer | a7r: I have some more thoughts here. Let's continue this another day? |
| 00:39:36 | gazer | a7r: I was thinking about it, but the BOF I was going to go for never came together, so probably not. How long are you going to be in boston for? |
| 00:39:52 | a7r | gazer: Monday morning, to Sunday Morning. |
| 00:40:21 | gazer | a7r: the 25th to the 1st? |
| 00:40:37 | a7r | nod. |
| 00:41:17 | gazer | ugh. that's the one week this summer I'm not going to be in Boston ... Every other bloody week I need to be up there ... |
| 00:41:27 | esalazar | Is there any way to get the buttons on the right side instead of the left? I'm left handed and want to hold the stylus in my left hand... |
| 00:42:47 | gazer | Oh well. I'm heading out. |
| 00:42:50 | cworth | esalazar: phycial buttons? upgrade to Familiar unstable, then use "xrandr -o inverted" |
| 00:44:09 | a7r | gazer: that's too bad. |
| 00:46:22 | gazer | a7r: it really is. I was planning on going, too. My advisor comes back the week after, and I have a ton of writing to do if I want to graduate next year, so I need to choose my conferences carefully ... |
| 00:46:47 | cworth | ugh. can't type. |
| 00:47:05 | a7r | nod. |
| 00:47:28 | a7r | gazer: I've got a shitload of code to check in on 3 different projects that week too.. |
| 00:47:38 | a7r | I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to pull it off. ;) |
| 00:48:37 | gazer | a7r: :) I know the feeling. My fall is going to be interesting ... Three conferences, my dissertation proposal and my wedding all fall within 6 weeks of each other ... |
| 00:51:17 | a7r | fear. |
| 00:52:12 | gazer | okay. I'm gone. Later. |
| 00:52:16 | a7r | late. |
| 00:56:17 | cworth | a7r: cool. aewm comes with a tiny little gtk-based menu program (6kB). Just plugged it into the install-menu system. |
| 00:56:42 | cworth | a7r: should be just the thing to enable ion to be as usable as blackbox. |
| 00:57:13 | a7r | cworth: cool. |
| 00:57:38 | digdude | a7r: dude. |
| 00:57:49 | a7r | digdude: re.. what's up? |
| 00:58:24 | digdude | a7r: same as yesterday. i'm learning the scheme scripting stuff that gimp uses, so I can automate some stuff... and working on beetle. |
| 00:58:54 | a7r | digdude: cool. |
| 00:59:09 | digdude | a7r: python's handline of lists (or tuples) rocks compared to any other interpreted language... |
| 00:59:11 | a7r | is reading about the Coca-Cola CIA connection. |
| 00:59:22 | cworth | Played with pyditor a bit today, and I started having this sick idea today about implementing elisp within python... |
| 00:59:26 | digdude | a7r: reading where? |
| 00:59:35 | a7r | digdude: http://www.guerrillanews.com/cocakarma/ |
| 00:59:42 | a7r | cworth: Haha |
| 00:59:44 | a7r | cworth: werd. ;) |
| 00:59:54 | digdude | is not a lisp fan yet... |
| 01:00:21 | a7r | pyditor, and the python handheld shell, are gonna be bad ass once they have some meat. |
| 01:00:42 | cworth | a7r: Oh, BTW, python bit me a couple more times... |
| 01:01:06 | a7r | cworth: you gotta stop trying to hurt its feelings. ;) |
| 01:01:16 | cworth | a7r: heh. :) |
| 01:02:51 | cworth | a7r: After some syntax experiments with the menu-method scripts I ended up with some errant punctuation: "def fun()\n\treturn 'Hello world',". Again, took me forever to find it. |
| 01:03:21 | cworth | a7r: I swear, the comma should really be a simple separator and not have so much magic. |
| 01:05:44 | cworth | a7r: but I did find a way for my nasty eval tricks to work. ;-) I'll email you my latest. |
| 01:11:42 | a7r | cworth: cool. |
| 01:37:56 | fred | quit |
| 01:52:13 | dneuer | a7r: ipkg dev-files doesn't have eth0 in it? |
| 01:57:41 | dneuer | a7r: hmmm. never mind; desktop doesn't have /dev/eth0 either |
| 02:24:31 | gazer | looks in for a few minutes ... |
| 02:59:55 | sgodsell | a7r - Thanks for your help yesterday I compiled and installed the kernel and jffs2 for my iPAQ successfully! |
| 04:10:00 | esalazar | I just installed familiar. |
| 04:10:25 | esalazar | What is this overclocking option? Is it safe to overclock? |
| 05:50:25 | mindrape | opens up a bottle of fresh red wine |
| 06:08:21 | | a7r was last seen on #familiar 4 hours, 56 minutes and 39 seconds ago, saying: cworth: cool. [Sun Jun 24 02:11:42 2001] |
| 06:08:21 | dneuer | ibot: seen a7r |
| 06:46:36 | dneuer_sleeping | is away: night night |
| 07:21:57 | a7r | re.. |
| 07:31:51 | Kero | hi |
| 13:26:13 | jg | Morning... |
| 13:27:43 | Nermal | lo |
| 16:21:08 | dneuer_sleeping | is back (gone 09:34:36) |
| 17:18:34 | mallum | hi all |
| 17:19:03 | mallum | whats up with slashdot & freshmeat ? |
| 17:34:58 | Nermal | down :( |
| 17:35:00 | Nermal | as is themes.org |
| 17:36:04 | jg | lets generate some microsoft conspiracy theories here :-). |
| 17:42:22 | bworth | hey all |
| 17:42:50 | bworth | I just bought a new 128MB flash card - how do I mount it? |
| 17:47:39 | ki-bobo | bworth: just like a normal harddisk !? |
| 17:47:49 | nikos | First ensure that it is detected on insertion |
| 17:48:12 | nikos | Then trying mounting /dev/hda1 - /dev/hda4 until you succeed. |
| 17:51:00 | mallum | Nerlmal: they've been down for over a day |
| 17:51:25 | mallum | thought it was very wierd |
| 17:54:37 | nikos | see #osdn |
| 17:55:50 | mallum | nikos: okey dokey |
| 18:02:25 | a7r | re.. |
| 18:06:37 | mallum | hi a7r |
| 18:22:53 | gazer | hey a7r |
| 18:22:58 | a7r | gazer: re.. |
| 18:24:46 | gazer | a7r: ugh. I have some thoughts, but I'm heading out. I'll try to catch you later, maybe with some code. Is there an anon CVS to the familiar framework stuff? |
| 20:41:31 | jg | a7r: when do you get in tomorrow? |
| 20:43:43 | a7r | jg: the morning, around 6:30 AM. |
| 20:43:58 | jg | Ugh... |
| 20:44:06 | jg | redeye. |
| 20:44:07 | a7r | yeah, fear. ;) |
| 20:44:18 | jg | you have someplace to crash? |
| 20:44:22 | a7r | cheap ticket though, from my hometown. |
| 20:45:20 | a7r | jg: yeah, I think so. I'm going to crash w/ my friend mike and his college roommates for a night or two, but it shouldn't be too bad. :) |
| 20:48:14 | a7r | I just picked up a USB->RS232 adapter, so I can do some dev on the plane. |
| 20:57:12 | Kero | a7r: what keeps you from adding my tcl/tk/ruby ipkgs into the unstable feed? |
| 20:59:46 | a7r | Kero: I've been busy, and haven't verified them yet. |
| 21:08:05 | Kero | okay. |
| 21:08:33 | Kero | what do you need to verify? |
| 21:10:19 | a7r | that they work, and don't hose the tree. |
| 21:14:38 | gazer | returns. |
| 21:15:11 | a7r | hey gazer.. |
| 21:15:43 | gazer | hey a7r. |
| 21:16:02 | gazer | sigh. clubs in new haven are freakin' weak. I miss boston ... :( |
| 21:34:41 | jg | a7r: When you wake up, if it isn't too late, drop by CRL. |
| 21:35:52 | a7r | jg: OKay. |
| 21:37:04 | jg | a7r: have you put up my modified postinst script? |
| 21:39:35 | a7r | jg: not yet. |
| 21:39:49 | a7r | kick ass.. |
| 21:39:55 | a7r | just got my USB adapter working w/ my iPAQ. |
| 21:45:11 | Nermal | a7r: :D |
| 21:49:45 | Nermal | does varying the cpu speed of the ipaq damage it in any way ? |
| 21:49:57 | Nermal | like.. even making it go slower than its meant to |
| 23:19:30 | mindrape | woohoo |
| 23:19:33 | mindrape | i got muh targus keyboard |
| 23:19:45 | mindrape | too bad it doesn't have a usb or serial part on the back of it |
| 23:39:34 | Tangent | mindrape : I plan on patching through the USB port on my keyboard... |
| 23:40:00 | Tangent | mindrape : I figure one of those cute tiny firewire sockets would fit into the black plastic bit just to the left of the connector |
| 23:40:23 | boodle | Tagent: Greetings, any new luck with dual-sleeve ? |
| 23:40:24 | Tangent | mindrape : Then I'd just have a specilised firewire <-> USB cable |
| 23:40:39 | Tangent | boodle : Nothing yet... havne't actually done anything however... |
| 23:40:54 | Tangent | I'll try new kernel soon.... working on other stuff at the moment |
| 23:41:11 | boodle | Tangent: well, good luck :) I need to try netbsd tonight.. someone finally posted a jornada kernal :) |
| 23:41:25 | Tangent | boodle : Rock on ;) |
| 23:41:36 | Tangent | Cool... the jordana will make a v.nice linux machine |
| 23:41:45 | Tangent | The keyboard is gonna be a huge benefit |
| 23:42:09 | boodle | Tangent: It sposedly gets in root and has pcmcia support + keyboard working.. I need to learn/figure out how to make a suitable /root image but then :) |
| 23:42:12 | jg | the 720 keyboard is too small (at least for my ham hands). I |
| 23:42:25 | jg | I'll stick to a targus and iPAQ combination. |
| 23:42:35 | boodle | jg: Don't say that!! I was hoping you might be interested in hacking for x support ;) |
| 23:42:54 | jg | X already runs on it (almost). |
| 23:43:02 | Tangent | I'm just coming to terms with having my targus.. at the moment, the lack of usb cutthrough makes it practically useless... |
| 23:43:06 | boodle | jg: great! Thanks for the ingo |
| 23:43:08 | boodle | er info |
| 23:43:17 | Tangent | but when I have my dual sleeve working, then the netowrk will be PCMCIA based |
| 23:43:17 | boodle | realife here.. bbl |
| 23:43:33 | jg | a bug or two left in the driver, but can run the same server as iPAQ. |
| 23:44:04 | mindrape | Tangent: wouldn't it interfer with the keyboard tho? |
| 23:44:09 | esalazar | Can anyone help with getting serial ppp connection working? |
| 23:44:17 | Tangent | mindrape : Nope... usb is on seperate lines |
| 23:44:34 | mindrape | i haven't checked the schems yet |
| 23:44:35 | Tangent | mindrape : Just a matter of getting to the right pins on the connector... |
| 23:44:50 | mindrape | Tangent: i would rather mount it sideways |
| 23:44:57 | mindrape | got any ideas where i can get a ribbon? |
| 23:45:00 | Tangent | mindrape : I opened up the connector, and I reckon that if I'm really really careful, I can tag onto the 4 wires I need... |
| 23:45:11 | Tangent | and provide usb and power through the connector on the keyboard |
| 23:45:26 | mindrape | yeah i wished power was on the board |
| 23:45:54 | mindrape | wot do you think about mounting it horizontally? |
| 23:45:55 | Tangent | No reason why they couldn't have done it... they just didn't :( |
| 23:46:37 | Tangent | mindrape : Yeah... landscape mode would be fantastic.. but the only way I can thing to do that without stopping the keyboard folding up is to have an extra landscape stand that attaches to the keyboard |
| 23:47:00 | Tangent | and a striaght through connector thingy to get from the connector on the keyboard onto the connector on the iPAQ |
| 23:47:30 | mindrape | i was kinda irked to discover the esc key was missing |
| 23:47:36 | mindrape | good thing i found out that inbox is the replacement for it |
| 23:49:38 | mindrape | when do you think you will hack in usb lines? |
| 23:49:51 | mindrape | take a dead motherboard, rip off the usb port |
| 23:53:05 | mindrape | Tangent: so if you are able to do this, then we could use usb networking with the keyboard |
| 23:53:20 | Tangent | Yep |
| 23:53:26 | mindrape | thats sweet |
| 23:53:31 | mindrape | get busy!@#$! :-) |
| 23:53:38 | Tangent | and the keyboard would all still fold up properly too :) |
| 23:53:57 | Tangent | I gotta find somewhere where I can get a firewire connector in single quantities... |
| 23:54:10 | mindrape | why use a firewire connector? |
| 23:54:22 | Tangent | Tiny little four pin connector... |
| 23:54:29 | Tangent | looks like just the thing we need... |
| 23:54:37 | Tangent | and the cables are easy to get hold of... |
| 23:54:49 | Tangent | so making the firewire<->usb cable would be easy |
| 23:55:27 | Tangent | just need to get the connector |
| 23:55:29 | mindrape | wonder why they didn't include support for it |
| 23:55:50 | mindrape | i mean a usb port is like pennies (or maybe it isn't?) |
| 23:56:09 | Tangent | yeah.. only pennies... I guess they just didn't think of it |
| 23:56:14 | Tangent | or something |
| 23:56:28 | Tangent | maybe they'll bring out a new model in a months time.... and make us spend more |
| 23:56:43 | a7r | OKay.. off to boston.. |
| 23:56:51 | mindrape | wots the connector called on the bottom of the ipaq? |
| 23:56:58 | mindrape | a7r: wots new with 0.5? |
| 23:57:06 | mindrape | a7r: have a good time in boston :D |
| 23:57:08 | Tangent | a7r : Boston is a good city... |
| 23:57:12 | a7r | later. |
| 23:57:13 | Tangent | likes boston a lot |
| 23:57:18 | Tangent | enjoy |