irclog2html for #elinux on 20060216

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00:04.18T0mWCrofton: not too much, I guess that we got about 8 inches.  most of it is gone with today's warm weather.
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00:05.13T0mWCrofton: my friend over in Rockaway, NJ had 20+ inches, heh
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02:36.09MonMothaanyone know any resources for reverse engineering binary kernel drivers?  I've got a decent bit of experience with reverse engineering embeded linux userspaces and userspace applications, but not kernel drivers
02:36.20MonMothaI don't really even know how to attach a debugger to the darn thign
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05:45.21T0mWMonMotha: still there?
05:45.52MonMothayes, I am
05:45.57T0mWok
05:46.19T0mWreverse engineering is a bit problematic.  depends on how badly you want something.
05:46.54T0mWobviously, taking apart something written asm is a lot easier than doing it with optimized C.
05:47.12MonMothaT0mW: well, this driver was definately written in C, but I still have a bunch of symbols
05:47.20MonMothait's not stripped, but it doesn't appear to ahve been compiled with debugging either
05:47.38T0mWif the C has not gone through and optimized, AND, you've been staring at the output asm of the compiler for a while.  You can recognize various conditionals, loops, etc.
05:48.14MonMothayeah, I can do that sort of stuff, but in this case I think it may be handy to be able to breakpoint the driver.  Is that even possible with a kernel driver?
05:48.23T0mWMonMotha: the only thing that I am aware of that will help is either objdump using disassemly option, or nm
05:48.29MonMothawell, I have Ida on it :)
05:49.03T0mWwe made a lot of jokes in high school about a woman named "Ida", obviously you are not talking about the same woman
05:49.22MonMothayou don't know about Ida?
05:49.39T0mWno
05:49.49T0mW~ida
05:50.02MonMothahttp://www.datarescue.com/
05:50.03T0mWibot: wake up
05:50.05ibotup: GOOD MORNING!!!
05:50.09T0mW~ida
05:50.11T0mW~ida?
05:50.23T0mWsomething broke there
05:50.32MonMothaibot ida is at http://www.datarescue.com/idabase/index.htm
05:50.33ibotokay, MonMotha
05:50.37MonMotha~ida
05:50.38ibotwell, ida is at http://www.datarescue.com/idabase/index.htm
05:50.47T0mW~botsnack
05:50.47ibotthanks, T0mW
05:51.08T0mWTHERE IS IDA'S PICTURE!
05:51.13T0mWheh
05:51.56T0mWMonMotha: without reading endlessly, what is it?
05:51.58MonMothaI'm mostly curious if it's possible to chuck a debugger on a kernel module
05:52.09MonMothaoh, ida is a graphical disassembler with extensive crossreferencing functionality
05:52.18MonMothait'll xref strings, jumps, procedures, etc.
05:52.42T0mWMonMotha: well, the Abatron BDI2000 documentation claims that you can debug the linux kernel with their pod
05:53.23T0mWMonMotha: can't you put gdbserver inside the kernel and do remote debugging from another machine?
05:53.31T0mWone that has the symbol table on it?
05:53.57T0mWproblem is that gdbserver + gdb usually want source to follow
05:54.27MonMothayeah, I definately don't have source to this driver
05:54.28T0mWMonMotha: does Ida use gdbserver? or TCP/Remote connections?
05:54.40MonMothait uses its own userspace component
05:54.45MonMothait's a rather proprietary product
05:54.51T0mWok
05:56.01T0mWAFAIK, you need some type of symbolic info to do debug.  gdb is not like msdos debug where it will disasm blindly.
05:56.41T0mWMonMotha: I've done reverse engineering of source on X86 and 8 bit controllers.  the X86 stuff I really wanted.
05:57.09MonMothaT0mW: well, I have a full ELF with some symbols
05:57.32T0mWit was only 22K of compiled code but took me 3..4 months to reverse.  It was written in Turbo C and I knew that compiler very well.
05:57.49MonMothayeah, I've been doing some other work.  It's tough
05:57.54MonMothathe main program binary is 927k!
05:57.59T0mWow
05:58.04T0mWwaaaaay too big
05:58.07MonMothawell, it statically links a bunch of libraries
05:58.37T0mWyeah
05:58.42MonMothathe kernel driver I'm working with is only 50k
05:59.23T0mW50K is not that big...  However, you need to take a look at the code, did you try running objdump across it?
05:59.35T0mWjust to see what is in there?
06:00.16MonMothaI ahve the code, and I know what I'm interested in
06:00.17T0mWMonMotha: what is it? X86 or ARM ?
06:00.20MonMothax86
06:00.23T0mWk
06:00.34MonMothaI ened to know what a particular ioctl does
06:00.41T0mWdisassembling arm can make you certifiably nuts
06:00.49MonMothaI'm just curious if ther'es any better way than following the code in a disassembly
06:01.19T0mWunless you can fish a gdbserver into the kernel, ...
06:01.29T0mWs/fish/insert/
06:01.39MonMothaibot fishslap ibot
06:01.41ibotACTION slaps ibot up side the head with a wet fish.
06:01.56T0mWI wish I could opt out of that "feature"
06:02.22MonMothayeah
06:02.29MonMothabtw, what does "mov eax, eax" accomplish?
06:02.42T0mWwaste time?
06:03.10T0mWI don't know much about the enhanced mode on x86
06:03.23T0mWmostly my x86 experience has been with 80c188
06:03.26MonMothaI was just curious if it would actually do anything
06:03.36MonMothaafact it has no effect on flags, anything
06:04.11T0mWother than being redundant, I wonder if it does something to the X86 internal breakpoint mechanism?
06:04.42MonMothais there any reason a compiler would generate that though?
06:05.40T0mWunless, it is a compiler optimizer hiccup?
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06:06.43MonMothait seems to do it quite often
06:06.50MonMothawith various registers
06:08.01T0mWMonMotha: maybe CosmicPenguin has more experience with X86 assembler?
06:08.48MonMothayeah, this would appear to be a nuance many people aren't familiar with
06:08.59MonMothaI was thinkign maybe some sort of pipeline hinting for new procs
06:43.34Russthats funny, wake up...
06:43.40Russibot: wake high
06:43.41ibothigh: GOOD MORNING!!!
06:43.45Russibot wake low
06:43.46ibotlow: GOOD MORNING!!!
06:43.58Russibot wake ibot
06:43.59ibotibot: GOOD MORNING!!!
06:46.04T0mWwake dead?\
06:46.05T0mWwake dead?
06:46.06T0mWnope
06:46.21Russyou need to tell ibot
06:46.25Russibot: wake nickserv
06:46.26ibotnickserv: GOOD MORNING!!!
06:46.48RussI like this one
06:46.55Russibot: identify is password
06:46.56ibot...but identify is already something else...
06:47.01Russibot: identify?
06:47.03ibotExtensible Integrated Development Environment. URL: http://www.pietrobo.com/projects/IDEntify/
06:47.11Russibot: tell nickserv about identify
06:47.27Russibot: register is password
06:47.28ibot...but register is already something else...
06:47.32Russibot: register?
06:47.34ibotRegister at http://my.bzflag.org/bb/ for both forum access and global logins in-game
06:47.42Russibot: tell nickserv about register
06:48.09T0mWRuss: ibot might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but he is dogged about something it does know about...
06:48.33Russits just too bad ibot is already registered with nickserv
06:48.36Russhmm
06:49.11Russibot: link?
06:49.12ibotsomebody said link was titled "Convert Hauppauge IR remote control to IRMAN"
06:49.21Russibot: no, link is russ
06:49.22ibotRuss: okay
06:49.28Russibot: tell nickserv about link
06:49.44Russibot, no link is titled "Convert Hauppauge IR remote control to IRMAN"
06:49.45ibotRuss: okay
06:49.54kergothbleh
06:50.00Russfeeling better?
06:50.03T0mW~lart kergoth
06:51.19kergoththis morning my stomach started to feel better, this afternoon the dizzy spells stopped, then this afternoon i get hit with a bout of depression hardcore.  this is not my week.  heh.
06:51.22T0mWkergoth: coffee?
06:51.22T0mWkergoth: are you diseased?
06:51.32kergothjust got hit with some sort of stomach flu or something
06:51.33kergothdunno
06:51.45T0mWkergoth: and ear infection too huh?
06:52.22kergothshrug, didnt take anything for it, just let it work itself out
06:53.28T0mWkergoth: you just moved into a new area, I guess it will take you time to get used to the new germs
06:53.50T0mWget in sync with the local populace
06:54.18kergothyea.  doubt the major climate change from minnesota to arizona helped matters
06:54.35kergothah well.
06:57.47T0mWanybody do USB drivers for linux?
06:58.50T0mWI've got somebody looking for a consultant to do a Linux USB driver for JTAG unit.
07:02.23T0mWgoogle sux at finding source
07:06.10RussI've done some usb stuff
07:06.19Russsome drivers you can do in userspace
07:08.01T0mWRuss: this was from Signum Systems looking for a consultant.  You interested in it?
07:18.40Russdon't have the time
07:19.09T0mWyeah, and I don't want to get involved with USB
07:26.03MonMothaT0mW: I've done USB drivers in linux
07:26.16T0mWyou want this job?
07:26.20MonMothafor a device like that, it's probably more appropriate to use libusb, though.  Which I have not done
07:26.28MonMothagot a description?
07:27.27T0mWMonMotha: fscking cable modem went offline again.
07:27.46MonMothaT0mW: fun fun
07:27.50MonMothado you have a description of the job?
07:27.52T0mWMonMotha: you want me to pass your email to them?
07:28.13T0mWI got your email from the last posting on the LPC2000 group.
07:28.13T0mWSince you are a consultant, I'd like to know if you have experience with writing USB drivers for Linux.
07:28.13T0mWOur device is a USB 2.0 JTAG debugger and as such needs a specialized driver.
07:28.16MonMothawell, do you know what the timeframe looks like?
07:28.28T0mWthat's all they sent me, just an inquiry
07:28.32MonMothahum, ok
07:28.38MonMothayeah, you can pass them my email
07:28.42MonMothamonmotha@indy.rr.com
07:28.57T0mWMonMotha: ok, I'll pass along your email and you can discuss with them.
07:29.05MonMothaok.  thanks
07:29.31T0mWMonMotha: do you have a name? other then MonMotha ?  heh
07:29.48MonMothaBrandon
07:30.20T0mWk
07:31.26T0mWdone
07:31.49MonMothaok
07:31.55MonMothaI have some time coming up, but not a whole lot
07:32.17MonMothasince I am a full time student, I don't get things done as quickly as many consultants do, so I'm not always an appropriate person to use
07:33.46T0mWMonMotha: eh, they might not be as picky as you think.
07:34.16T0mWMonMotha: they might be excited by how cheaply they could get you to do it.  :P
07:34.20MonMothaI know some companies are on more of a timeframe than others
07:34.30MonMothaand yes, I'm cheap compared to many.  The downside is how long I take to do it
07:34.40MonMothait really depends on what they're looking for
07:34.46MonMothaI'm pretty up front with all that stuff
07:35.01MonMothasome people jump at the opportunity to get it done cheaply, others walk due to the timeline
07:36.07T0mWyeah, I dunno.  I wonder if they made it an opensource initiative and offered cheap units to intereseted developers that that might not be the way to go.  No one developer, as a linux based jtag would interest a lot of arm people.
07:36.43MonMothayeah
07:36.55T0mWinterest might be generated by seeding some cheap units in the right hands.  e.g. "you want this you need to build the driver..."
07:40.16T0mWI've got a package seqfaulting and I'm sure it is a bad / corrupted lib image.  How to find that?
07:40.37T0mWnothing in logs
07:40.49MonMothapackage?
07:41.15Russgdb
07:41.18MonMothahey, you happen to know if GCC aligns struct members?
07:41.27T0mWyeah, it does
07:41.27RussMonMotha: architecture specific
07:41.36T0mWwhat Russ said
07:41.43T0mWspecific rules based on arch
07:41.56MonMothaRuss: x86
07:42.04Russyou can say __attribute__ ((__packed__)) to make it go away for sure
07:42.21MonMothawell, what's the default behavior on x86?
07:42.23T0mWRuss: doesn't x86 do packing by default due to byte nature of x86 cpus?
07:42.23RussI haven't seen gcc align any members, but that doesn't mean it won't
07:42.31Russ(in x86)
07:42.32MonMothait would make sense
07:42.35MonMothaok
07:42.44T0mWarm is int32 alignment
07:42.49MonMothaoh wait, nm
07:42.55MonMothathe struct has said attribute
07:43.02Russsome future gcc version optimizing your code for some new x86 proc might decide to align something
07:43.10RussT0mW: no, it aligns to word size
07:43.20Russa u16 will align to a u16
07:43.24Russa u32 will align to a u32
07:45.17cdmyeah, and then performance wise things get crazy with the ARM11.
07:45.28cdmwith the 64bit fetches from cache, etc
07:45.43T0mWheh
07:45.54T0mWcdm: grinds gears eh?
07:46.01RussI hate people who write api's with unaligned data members
07:46.38T0mWcdm: fetch a byte aligned member slams it into 1st gear
07:46.38cdmRuss - I hate people who write(savefile, &somestruct, sizeof(somestruct)) and expect it to work everywhere. ;)
07:46.45Russheh
07:46.55MonMothacdm: yes, that's annoying.  Completely not portable
07:46.57RussI just have a lot of get_unaligned put_unaligned all over my code
07:46.58T0mWunless it's packed
07:47.05RussT0mW: even if
07:47.07cdmT0MW - but then it can crash
07:47.10MonMothaeven if you take care of alignment issues, there's still endianness
07:47.10T0mWreally?!
07:47.12cdmon SH, ARM, and MIPS
07:47.13RussT0mW: endianness, floating point format
07:47.18T0mWscrew endian
07:47.24T0mWyou get nailed anyway
07:47.40Russso many subs on the project I work on don't understand whan endianness is
07:47.41cdmyes - the compiler will emit structs you can't actually access if you pack on those architectures.
07:47.42T0mWthose are givens
07:47.46Russsucks
07:48.18Russso for this device, the vendor id is little endian, for this device, its big endian, etc
07:48.37T0mWIIRC someone did a paper on how big-endian was a bad idea for processor memory?
07:48.56RussI really don't think it matters anymore
07:49.10cdmstruct crashme { uint8_t foo, uint16_t death, uint8_t bar } __attribute__((packed))
07:49.37Russalthough a single instruction to swab a register would be nice
07:49.48cdmRuss - yeah it would.
07:49.50Russcdm: only if you don't have an alignment handler, and don't use get/put_unaligned
07:50.06Russits not like a swap instruction would be complex
07:50.09Russer, swab
07:50.27T0mWdoesn't arm11 do a swab?
07:50.28Russheck, make it one of the arithmetic bits, does arm have any of those left over?
07:50.29cdmRuss - right.  Everywhere I worked we killed apps rather then allow them to hide behind an alignment handler.
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07:51.23cdmsame with floating point
07:51.26T0mWheh, make binary data files illegal, punishable by 6 months in coding school
07:51.58RussT0mW: no, you just need to define the data format, and don't define it as just a "struct"
07:52.13T0mWdefine it how then?
07:52.21Russby byte, and by content
07:52.30Russie, byte 16-20 is a IEEE float
07:52.38T0mWok
07:52.45Russbyte 20-22 is a little endian unsigned short
07:53.26MonMothaheh, I just write completely unportable code :)
07:53.36MonMothathough I know I'm doing it and only do it when it REALLY doesn't matter
07:53.45MonMotha(as in I'm writing something for myself)
07:54.14cdmRuss - yeah, but people don't like like writing protocol documents.
07:54.24cdmwhich is basically what is what.
07:54.36MonMothaprotocol documents are good
07:54.52MonMothamuch better when well done than a single implementation
07:55.17Russreally?
07:55.25Russour documents end up going through a filter
07:55.52Russso, sub a writes a document, and describes a data field as an enumeration, and lists the types, but no associated numbers
07:56.03Russyou just have to assume that the first one is 0, second is 1, etc
07:56.15T0mWI've a clobbered system, hard drive failed sometime ago.  I've an XFS LVM on it, can I salvage that volume if I install a fresh copy of the distro?
07:56.28Russprime gets the document, and sees stuff in there that isn't yet a requirement, so we shouldn't see it, so they take it out of the list
07:56.51RussT0mW: I would take the drive out and attach it to a running system
07:57.07Russide usb enclosures are cheap
07:57.17T0mWRuss: I did that, copied the good partition data onto a good drive, that got me going.  
07:57.30RussI'm confused
07:57.32T0mWRuss: but, a lot of binaries got screwed
07:57.35Russah
07:57.43Russdistro?
07:57.59T0mWRuss: the system ran ok, but with random issues: mandriva 10.1
07:58.07T0mW2.6 kernel
07:58.11Russhmmm
07:58.16RussI don't know enough about mandriva
07:58.25T0mW2.6.8.1 kernel
07:58.35T0mWRuss: interesting thing.
07:58.36Russif it were debian, I would do a minimal install somewhere,  copy the binaries on top of the original drive
07:58.48Russchroot, and then do a apt-get reinstall of all installed packages
07:59.13T0mWRuss: the new mandriva 2006 distro will do an orderly shutdown power off if you press the power button on an atx machine! that is cool!
08:00.12RussI had a bad situation where I had a raid array with three drives, had one drive fail, didn't notice, and then 2 weeks later, had another drive fail.
08:00.16T0mWRuss: good suggestion!  thanks, didn't think of that.  I could partition the new drive the same, copy the lvm parition over, then manually reconstruct the lvm entries in /etc
08:00.23Russthe second drive that failed wouldn't spin up
08:00.30Russthe first would, and data could be copied off
08:00.50T0mWRuss: is /proc/mdstat reliable to monitor the health of the software RAID?
08:00.51RussThe only things that ended up being screwed up where any files that were modified during that 2 week period
08:00.57Russyes
08:01.15Russcourse, you might want email notification, and smartd too
08:01.34T0mWgood, I'm planning on a cron to sweep through /proc/mdstat periodically looking for a failed drive then notifiy by email.
08:01.44RussI had to do the whole copy over minimal binaries to get the package manager working again, and then reinstall all installed packages
08:01.49T0mWthis will be a remote machine on the network (VPN)
08:01.55RussI'm sure there is already some utility to do that
08:02.19T0mWthe software raid seems to be pretty fast!
08:02.30T0mWat least at my loads
08:03.05Russcdm: you know anything about arm and YUV->RGB?
08:03.32RussI may need to do a YUV translation on a 800x600 16 bit color video stream at 30fps
08:03.57T0mWin realtime?
08:03.59Russyes
08:04.08T0mWZone Alarm
08:04.16Russthats free, isn't it?
08:04.18T0mWyeah
08:04.34Russdoes it come with spybot search and destroy?
08:04.36T0mWit is for remote ip / usb / etc cameras
08:05.32T0mWI've been meaning to get back to do some indepth to see if that will give us some recording monitoring capablilites for a slew of IP cameras (Axis)
08:05.36T0mWno
08:05.41Russit was a joke
08:05.43T0mWnot zone alarm.
08:05.51T0mWlet me look in bookmarks
08:06.01Russanyway, it'd be 14 million pixels per second
08:06.19T0mWRuss: iirc, it touted some on-the-fly codec stuff to translate
08:06.52RussI'm just worried because at 433MHz, thats 30 cpu cycles per pixel
08:07.48T0mWhttp://www.zoneminder.com/
08:07.49T0mWLOL, is that all!
08:07.49T0mWRuss: you ever think of a dedicated hardware codec?
08:08.03T0mWthat's a lot of data
08:08.29Russya, but I do have a 64bit memory bus
08:08.50RussI figure if I lock 2k of lookup tables in the cache, I might have a good chance
08:09.19T0mWI transcode mpeg2 --> divx regularly.  2gig of mpeg2 takes an hour on an Athlon 2.4GHz (it is 700x400 format? something like that)
08:09.38Russright, but I'm just looking to do YUV->RGB
08:09.46T0mWyah, simpler
08:10.05MonMothaT0mW: you should play aroung with h.264.  Will make your DivX encodes look like they dont' take any time
08:10.12T0mWmythtv stores it's frame data in YUV format...
08:10.36Russits something like R=Y+1.140*V, G=Y-0.395*U - 0.581*V, B=Y+2.032U
08:11.06T0mWMonMotha: well, it is recorded tv shows, I need to edit the commericials out.  So far, all I've found to do that, somewhat reasonably easy, is avidemux
08:11.22Russso you'd have a table for 1.140*V, 0.395*U,  0.581*V, and 2.032*U
08:11.25MonMothaT0mW: you should be able to pass the output of avidemux into an h.264 encoder (mencoder can do it)
08:12.11T0mWMonMotha: I've tinkered with mencoder, nothing sucessfull
08:12.25MonMothaI have an line that works to encode to h.264 video
08:12.29T0mWMonMotha: problem is the cutlists
08:12.44MonMothadoesn't mythtranscode handle cutlists for you?
08:12.52Russload, add, clip, shift, load, subtrack, load, subtrack, clip, shift, orr, load, add, clip, shift, orr
08:13.15T0mWMonMotha: yeah, it's own cutlist database.  But editing cutlists in mythtv is "interesting"
08:13.22MonMothaI know
08:13.32MonMothaI've done stuff with MythTV it was never intended to do, I'm sure
08:13.34T0mWRuss: easy son, you're stuttering!
08:13.40T0mW:P
08:14.10Russediting cutlists in mythfrontend has always been easy for me
08:14.44T0mWMonMotha: I don't mind doing it offline, the server I have for the videos is doing nothing all day so it might as well run the editing / transcoding
08:15.15T0mW300+ movies and counting
08:15.57MonMothaRuss: Did I imply I was doing it with mythfrontend?  :)
08:16.01T0mWat least DVD-R+ has come down in price lately
08:16.21MonMothaI have a system for recording HD material that involves SSHing files over a network and doing a manual insert followed by a call to mythcommflag to build the seek table
08:16.27Russa
08:16.31Russh
08:16.46T0mWMonMotha: you record HD?!
08:16.52T0mWHDTV?
08:16.53MonMothaT0mW: terrestrial broadcast, yup
08:16.56MonMothaI have a pcHDTV 3000
08:16.57T0mWhow
08:16.58T0mW?
08:17.01T0mWah
08:17.07MonMothait just feeds me an MPEG2 stream using the DVB API
08:17.22T0mWdoes that also do the std NTSC broadcasts as well as HDTV?
08:17.27MonMothaI'm working on a setup using Dish network, which is fun since it's almost impossible to do legally
08:17.35MonMothayeah, but I don't use it for that
08:17.42MonMothasince it does not have a hardware encoder for that
08:17.52MonMothaI have a cable box and a PVR-150 for regular stuff
08:18.15T0mWMonMotha: well, the local cable company has been pushing their HDTV recievers and I've resisted as I dunno if I could record them with a mythtv setup
08:18.52T0mWsubst/recievers/cable boxes/
08:19.41MonMothadoes it have a firewire port?
08:19.44MonMothatheir box taht is
08:19.56RussI'm hoping I'll be able to buy digital tuner pci cards and switch over to digital cable seamlessly
08:20.09Russno settop boxes
08:20.13T0mWRuss: me too
08:21.06T0mWRuss: my cable company has "cable on demand" and I'm afraid their cable box may have broadcast flag or other crap
08:21.11MonMothaRuss: in the USA? good luck
08:21.15MonMothaOpenCable isn't open enough
08:21.25RussT0mW: you can still buy cards that ignore the broadcast flag
08:21.28MonMothamy HD tuner supports unencrypted digital acble, but naturally none is
08:21.50Russwhy would they encrypt it?
08:21.50T0mWRuss: isn't there a drop-dead date on that?
08:21.57RussT0mW: not currently
08:21.59MonMothaRuss: they all do
08:22.05MonMothaRuss: we can debate why all night long
08:22.19Russhttp://www.pchdtv.com/hd_3000.html
08:22.46Russk...I'm paying for the service, I want a f'ing key
08:22.52T0mWMonMotha: no, i've little knowledge about hd cable transmission formats.  I suspected that it is encrypted channel data, not send in the clear as their analog is.
08:23.32MonMothaT0mW: you wouldbe correct in 99% of cases
08:23.38MonMothaRuss: well, that's what the cablecard is for
08:23.48Russcable card?
08:23.53MonMothahowever, getting all the licenses and patents worked out to build a hardware device for that with OSS drivers is impossible
08:23.59Russyou mean the card like directv uses?
08:24.01T0mWthat is one of the reasons I'm avoiding digital cable
08:24.02MonMothayup
08:24.08Russwonder if cox has those
08:24.11RussI don't think they do
08:24.18MonMothaissue is taht licensing the stuff needed to build the hardware requires that you implement pretty draconian DRM
08:24.30MonMothaVista will apparently support it, but XP MCE doesn't have enoguh DRM!
08:24.58Russwho would use either
08:25.06Russ(want to use)
08:25.14T0mWthere you go, let microsoft implement DRM + digital cable, then we can hack it
08:25.20MonMothaRuss: agreed, but Linux will never (legally) support opencable
08:25.27MonMothaat least not until the patents run out
08:25.49MonMothain theory, they'll go away in about 15 years
08:25.52Russdamned security by obscurity because they are cheap
08:26.00MonMothaRuss: not really
08:26.08Russjust use certificates or something
08:26.11MonMothayou have most of the info needed to build it, but since it's patented you can't do it legally
08:26.36MonMothawell, the way the card works is it syncs up to a signal on the digital cable and starts spitting out keys
08:26.40MonMothait's a smartcard, basically
08:26.48MonMothait's fairly secure from waht I've read about it
08:29.27Russglitch the card dammit
08:31.58Russanyone playing with asterisk?
08:32.07MonMothaRuss: it's on "the list"
08:32.25MonMothathe mythtv server doesn't have enough proc time used :)
08:32.31MonMothaso I was going to do Asterisk
08:32.39RussI wanna start by just hooking my home line up to my server
08:32.51Russso it can email me messages
08:33.00MonMothaI was thinking 802.11b runnign in the amateur service
08:33.10MonMothanothing like running VoIP over 2.4GHz instead of FM
08:33.12Russand maybe I can make and receive calls from my home phone from elsewhere
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13:31.03prpplaguehehe funny funnt
13:31.05prpplaguefunny
13:31.13prpplaguehttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7467429921.html
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13:58.02chouimatmorning
14:08.03T0mWprpplague: YO!  Where is your name in that article, huh?
14:09.47T0mWprpplague: aha! I know what the problem is: humble Dave didn't put his name anywhere
14:09.53T0mW:P
14:10.36prpplagueT0mW: hehe
14:13.50T0mWprpplague: wanker
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14:15.04T0mWGPSFan: morning stranger
14:15.40GPSFanT0mW: hi, how was the "big snow"?
14:15.43T0mWprpplague: I can't take this anymore <sob>
14:15.54T0mWprpplague: I'm going out to get a cigar!
14:15.58prpplagueT0mW: hehe
14:16.06T0mWGPSFan: what snow?
14:16.09GPSFanT0mW: resist!!
14:16.19T0mWGPSFan: maybeeee we got 7inches
14:16.28prpplagueT0mW: GPSFan would be able to answer your question about the zipit
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14:16.38GPSFanmelted already  ;>(
14:16.45T0mWGPSFan: now, my friend in Rockaway NJ (outside of Dover) got hammered with 20+ inches
14:17.01T0mWGPSFan: hey!  could a Zipit do IRC?
14:17.18T0mWGPSFan: are all the peices there but the IRC app?
14:17.41GPSFanT0mW: yes, that's one of the first programs I got running,
14:17.58T0mWGPSFan: coool! you've got IRC chat on a zipit?
14:18.18GPSFanit was called weechat, worked ok except it needed locale support in uclibc, which sorta sucked.
14:18.34T0mWlocale?
14:18.46GPSFantook a lot of space and had problems with the date.
14:19.31GPSFansupport for different fonts/char sets for different parts of the worle, weechat comes from france..
14:19.40T0mWGPSFan: hmm, wonder if you could make it page out to the SD card for more virtual memory space?
14:20.01T0mWprolly get uClinux all tangled up though
14:20.28GPSFannot that it took too much ram, uclibc with locale was quite a bit bigger than without. this was before the mmc.
14:21.14T0mWhmm, still $10
14:21.17T0mWhmm, still $100
14:21.41GPSFanT0mW: also remember what irc clients like to put on the screen, time stamp, nick, surronded by brackets, etc. crowds a 320x240 screen.
14:22.00T0mWI don't timestamp here
14:22.44T0mW320x240 should be, what, 40 cols * 12 lines?
14:22.56T0mW20 lines
14:23.30GPSFanit was not bad, I had a few patches to it, check the Yahoo site, it's all there.
14:24.10GPSFanI haven't kept up with weechat development, there have been several releases since.
14:30.17prpplagueGPSFan: you can hack something in called brokenlocal that will allow you not to use all those local files
14:30.22prpplagueGPSFan: iirc
14:30.59chouimathey T0mW prpplague GPSFan
14:31.08prpplaguechouimat: hey
14:31.19prpplaguechouimat: see that you have an ice warning tonight
14:31.44chouimatprpplague: yes ... shit I was planning to get a few beers tonight :(
14:31.57prpplaguehehe
14:33.45GPSFanchouimat: morning
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14:45.59T0mWchouimat: hello! ice-man
14:46.18chouimatT0mW: :)
14:47.46T0mWGPSFan: cable company tells me that their wifi network is "open" to connect to.  But, if you want to get past the firewalls I'd have to login via an HTML page.  Sound like this is within the realm of zipit's abilities?
14:49.13T0mW16Meg of RAM sounds pretty beefy
14:49.23GPSFanT0mW: you might have to write some sort of program to actually handle the html challenge/response. might be able to do it with links.
14:50.09GPSFan16M is enough for many apps. not many at once. ;>)
14:51.17prpplaguelordy i just do not understand scox's stock price
14:51.35prpplaguethey are getting hammered in court, and yet their stock price is slowly creaping up
14:54.09T0mWGPSFan: yeah, ok.  I'm getting the blue one, um, maybe the silver, but, red is so bright..
14:57.14GPSFanT0mW: I have a blue and a white. btw it's real linux, not uclinux. the 7312 has an mmu.
15:03.46T0mWGPSFan: ooo! MMU, cool.  I got me a blue one
15:04.07T0mWplus I think I can scare up some SD card stuff, heh
15:06.09T0mWprpplague: people keep speculating that IBM will eventually get pissed and purchase SCOX + their assets.  
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15:06.41T0mWprpplague: that IBM will want to "get it over with", regardless of how weak the SCOX case might be
15:08.19T0mWhttp://palmtops.about.com/b/a/186625.htm
15:08.32T0mWThe Zipit boots from 2MB of Flash, reportedly, and has 16MB of SDRAM. David Anders is reportedly investigating a way to add an MMC memory card slot to the device, to expand its storage
15:09.09T0mWprpplague: you can stop working now, you already got your 15minutes of fame
15:09.28T0mWtoo bad it was only on a web page
15:12.40CosmicPenguinWho was looking for me?
15:12.50CosmicPenguinI'll find you
15:13.46CosmicPenguinGPSFan: hey - is the snow blowing in horizontally from Wyoming for you too? :)
15:16.11GPSFanCosmicPenguin: it's bright and sunny here, we had an amazing wind storm yesterday, but the snow went ust north of us.
15:16.29CosmicPenguinGPSFan: yeah, we're getting it badly right now
15:17.20GPSFandon't blow away..
15:17.42CosmicPenguinI'm just glad to be out of the snow
15:17.53CosmicPenguinhopefully my wife makes it to work ok - she has to travel a lot farther then I do
15:18.01T0mWCosmicPenguin: I think MonMotha was looking to talk about x86 cra^H^H^Hstuff
15:18.11CosmicPenguinheh
15:18.14CosmicPenguinMonMotha: ping?
15:20.33prpplagueT0mW`4cigar: thats funny as GPSFan is the one that got it working
15:20.49prpplagueT0mW`4cigar: i never had time to finish my hack on the zipit
15:21.07prpplagueT0mW`4cigar: i actually was adding a spi gpio chip
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15:28.37chouimatI remember when I was young and my grandfather told me the legend of the lunar cycle.
15:28.37chouimatHe told me that when every month when the full moon arrived to take food and to go
15:28.41chouimatto take shelter in the mountain with the other men and wait 5 days that the Great
15:28.41chouimatRed Anger to be over ... Because this is, son, the price you have to pay to get laid
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16:27.05Genesisyop
16:27.23Genesisi've a big problem i would like to submit to you
16:27.42Genesisi dev on a PIC 16f877
16:28.01Genesisplug my card on the serial port
16:28.07Genesisi write some data on it
16:28.16Genesisit works perfectly on win98
16:28.29Genesisbut i read nothing on linux and XP
16:29.10Genesisit's a big mistake , my electronic professor didn't find the pb :/
17:10.31prpplagueCosmicPenguin: you see my juicebox hack made the headlines in the enquirer^h^h^h^h^hlinuxdevices.com pages?
17:10.37CosmicPenguinheh - yeah
17:11.25prpplagueCosmicPenguin: hehe got a spare room i can rent? i'm ready to run away
17:16.18CosmicPenguinyeah, come on up
17:16.30Genesisgood job prpp
17:16.33CosmicPenguinIf the INS comes for you though, I don't know you.. :)
17:17.22prpplaguehehe
17:17.35prpplagueCosmicPenguin: i'm still a US citizen
17:18.05CosmicPenguinheh
17:18.15CosmicPenguinAnd that is supposed to stop them?
17:18.24CosmicPenguinI guess that means they'll just spy on you then
17:18.46prpplagueCosmicPenguin: hehe yea
17:19.13prpplagueCosmicPenguin: last time i came back to the states they grilled me at the INS station
17:23.13CosmicPenguinman, sometimes gentoo is just plain annoying
17:23.20CosmicPenguinit took me forever to update to a new version of inn
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17:34.19prpplaguekergoth: don't start that today
17:35.27kergothtoo late
17:36.44kergothhttp://www.animalshaveproblemstoo.com/view.php?id=179
17:42.01prpplaguekergoth: totally bizarre pages
17:42.06kergothyep
17:42.25prpplaguehttp://www.animalshaveproblemstoo.com/view.php?id=189
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18:06.25prpplaguethere is the man of the hour
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18:37.13prpplagueTimRiker: hehe http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7467429921.html
18:37.26prpplagueTimRiker: hehe your name was the only one mentioned hehe
18:38.13CosmicPenguinheh
18:38.18CosmicPenguin"Tim RIker's elinux website"
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19:24.46ljpanyone know of any NPTL issues with glibc and arm kernel?
19:47.04prpplagueljp: i've heard rumors of such, but no first hand experience
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