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| 03:07.47 | *** join/#elinux MonMotha (~monmotha@martinbv-3.student.rose-hulman.edu) |
| 03:39.20 | sorphin | prpplague: yo hillbilly |
| 03:42.33 | *** join/#elinux sjhill (~sjhill@spvl-01-120.dsl.netins.net) |
| 03:42.48 | sorphin | ~bitchslap sjhill |
| 03:42.50 | ibot | ACTION beats the sh*t out of sjhill |
| 03:43.26 | sjhill | sorphin: hey putz |
| 03:47.54 | sorphin | sjhill: hey lackey |
| 03:54.08 | sorphin | sjhill: don't suppose you can source small LCDs eh? |
| 03:54.23 | sjhill | heh, nope |
| 03:55.04 | sorphin | nod |
| 03:56.21 | MonMotha | I'll look in the junk box here at Rose for you |
| 03:56.26 | MonMotha | strange stuff has been known to show up |
| 03:56.37 | MonMotha | what kind you looking for? |
| 03:58.14 | sorphin | MonMotha: Sony AM309-3 |
| 03:58.18 | sorphin | it's from a digital camera |
| 03:58.30 | sorphin | this one got broken, but the camera itself is just fine.. |
| 03:58.40 | sorphin | so if i could dig up an icd, it'd be gold |
| 03:58.56 | MonMotha | hum, I can't make any guarantees on model...1.6" color I take it? |
| 03:59.03 | sorphin | yeah |
| 03:59.12 | MonMotha | heck, I can't guarantee there will be any LCDs |
| 03:59.16 | MonMotha | those don't show up often and go quickly |
| 03:59.21 | sorphin | yeah |
| 03:59.47 | sorphin | looking at this one w/o it being on, you see a change in the LCD appearance, when you turn it on, you can see how it's broken |
| 04:00.08 | sorphin | actually surprised it broke, and didn't trash the rest of the camera |
| 04:00.30 | T` | sorphin, whats the LCDs for ? |
| 04:00.45 | sorphin | T`: uh, replacing the broken one in this camera |
| 04:00.51 | T` | sorphin, ooh.. ebay ? |
| 04:01.01 | sorphin | MonMotha: noticed someone hacked the wireless on the Nintendo DS? |
| 04:01.12 | MonMotha | I saw the /. headline |
| 04:01.14 | sorphin | T`: heh, just someone selling one there :P |
| 04:01.24 | T` | cool.. so u got it ? |
| 04:01.27 | sorphin | despite common belief, ebay doesn't have EVERYTHING |
| 04:01.35 | MonMotha | indeed |
| 04:01.41 | sorphin | T`: huh? |
| 04:01.59 | sorphin | only thing i got recently was a 1G usb flash drive |
| 04:02.00 | T` | <sorphin> T`: heh, just someone selling one there :P |
| 04:02.08 | T` | u can bid and get it then ? |
| 04:02.15 | sorphin | T`: uhh |
| 04:02.24 | sorphin | why would i wanna buy the whole camera from someone? |
| 04:02.27 | sorphin | i have the camera :P |
| 04:02.42 | sorphin | for free i might add |
| 04:02.43 | T` | oh nevermind.. i misunderstood.. i thought they were selling the lcd itself |
| 04:02.47 | sorphin | no |
| 04:02.57 | sorphin | i'd need to find a borked one for that |
| 04:03.04 | sorphin | and hope it wasn't the lcd that's borked |
| 04:03.08 | sorphin | what's really funny |
| 04:03.19 | T` | i have a soon-to-be-broken camera.. a kodak dx3700.. is that lcd any help to u |
| 04:03.22 | sorphin | MonMotha: i've found threads via google, for several people needing that LCD for their particular camera |
| 04:03.33 | sorphin | t1: i dunno, is it 1.6" ? |
| 04:03.38 | sorphin | T`: ^^^^ |
| 04:03.53 | T` | 1.6" doesnt mean its the same LCD :P |
| 04:03.57 | sorphin | uhh |
| 04:03.58 | sorphin | no shit |
| 04:04.02 | sorphin | HOWEVER |
| 04:04.04 | sorphin | if it is 1.6 |
| 04:04.08 | sorphin | i was gonna have you pop it open |
| 04:04.09 | T` | roffl |
| 04:04.14 | sorphin | since this sony seems to be very commonly used |
| 04:04.23 | T` | hold. |
| 04:04.33 | sorphin | atleast |
| 04:04.57 | sorphin | MonMotha: so how is live at rose hulman? |
| 04:05.03 | sorphin | s/live/life/ |
| 04:05.05 | T` | i can put a post on our univ. bboard for broken camera of that same type.. some kid might decide to sell it if u want |
| 04:05.33 | sorphin | T`: not willing to pop open your borked camera? |
| 04:05.37 | T` | i guess it depends how much u want to spend on the LCD.. |
| 04:05.42 | T` | sorphin, its in the lab |
| 04:05.49 | T` | sorphin, T`|Heli is sleeping too |
| 04:07.23 | T` | sorphin, i am trying to find on the web which model this cam uses.. |
| 04:09.18 | sorphin | T`: i only found by popping it open.. and googling for said model, and some other people were looking for it |
| 04:10.49 | T` | how do u know its your LCD which is dead? |
| 04:11.23 | T` | hmm.. this page says kodak dx3700 is 1.6" http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:C6m50ZM15SUJ:www.photodon.com/lcd-size.htm+kodak+dx3700+lcd+model&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&strip=1 |
| 04:11.55 | sorphin | T`: because the rest of the camera works and it takes pictues fine.. you can see how the LCD is broken.. it's obvious |
| 04:12.50 | sorphin | T`: well, can you pop it open? it shouldn't be too hard, mine was a few screws |
| 04:12.57 | sorphin | and the lcd was on it's own thing on the back |
| 04:13.02 | sorphin | just connected via ribbons |
| 04:14.43 | T` | sorphin, yea its already in a semi-poped open stage affixed with some glue |
| 04:14.51 | T` | will do it on wednesday |
| 04:15.45 | T` | u can contact a local sony distributor too |
| 04:15.55 | sorphin | grr |
| 04:16.17 | sorphin | T`: that's gonna be more trouble and $ :P |
| 04:16.52 | T` | umm well.. ur only option as a last resort.. ask me sometime on wednesday (T`|Heli is my lab clone) |
| 04:16.56 | MonMotha | damn, I wish my cable box had an svideo output |
| 04:17.14 | T` | hehe just built a tv tuner for my computer :) |
| 04:17.23 | sorphin | T`: around what time? |
| 04:17.32 | T` | sorphin, anytime i am active :) |
| 04:17.37 | sorphin | heh |
| 04:18.08 | MonMotha | T`: you built a tv tuner? as in you designed and manufactured the board? |
| 04:18.10 | sorphin | T`: well, unless you talk through that nick on wednesday :P |
| 04:18.31 | T` | MonMotha, the tuner kit i hacked from a old ATI video card... |
| 04:18.44 | MonMotha | I see... |
| 04:18.50 | MonMotha | I should do that with my old AIW Pro |
| 04:18.53 | T` | MonMotha, i put a PIC to control it through its i2c bus, and added IR sensor, wrote code for an old remote from JVC, and it works now :-) |
| 04:19.06 | MonMotha | heh |
| 04:19.06 | sorphin | heh |
| 04:19.08 | sorphin | cute |
| 04:19.24 | MonMotha | T`: how did you get it to talk to the PC? PCI bus? |
| 04:19.26 | T` | yea its very nice.. and small too |
| 04:19.37 | T` | MonMotha, no.. i have a s-video in for my video card |
| 04:19.48 | MonMotha | oh, ok |
| 04:19.59 | MonMotha | so you already had a tv input, just no tuner? |
| 04:20.04 | T` | MonMotha, building a PCI add-on shouldn't be too hard either.. there are chipsets which do it. the BT ones are good |
| 04:20.15 | T` | MonMotha, yes right.. its a VIVO card |
| 04:20.19 | MonMotha | ah |
| 04:20.31 | MonMotha | I currently don't have an svideo input actually |
| 04:20.40 | MonMotha | I'm very very tempted to get a pcHDTV 3000 |
| 04:20.51 | MonMotha | so I can grab ota hi def programs |
| 04:21.04 | MonMotha | you know if the svideo input on that can grab at higher than 480p? |
| 04:21.13 | T` | i didnt want to spend more $$ un-necessarily.. i already have this old ATI AGP card which i cant use.. so reused its parts |
| 04:21.23 | MonMotha | yup, that's what I have. old AIW Pro AGP |
| 04:21.35 | MonMotha | though if v4l supported it, I could use it directly |
| 04:21.41 | MonMotha | it's not one of the supported BT chips |
| 04:21.42 | sorphin | T`: hence why i'm trying to scavenge an lcd ;) |
| 04:21.55 | T` | aah.. then u have to see if u can get a datasheet for your tuner module.. its hard to get them. mine i found it online easily |
| 04:22.05 | MonMotha | yup |
| 04:22.16 | T` | sorphin, ?? |
| 04:22.38 | sorphin | t1: unnessesary $$ :P |
| 04:22.44 | sorphin | T`: ^^^ |
| 04:22.46 | T` | i have another tuner module from an old VCR i found in our univ. trash floor.. but i dont have a datasheet for it |
| 04:22.55 | MonMotha | I'm guessing that's why a driver hasn't been written for this thing...apparently the capture device itself isn't supported, just not the tuner |
| 04:22.56 | T` | sorphin, haha good principle :) |
| 04:22.58 | MonMotha | er not just |
| 04:23.13 | T` | MonMotha, are u talking about the pcHDTV ? |
| 04:23.19 | sorphin | no |
| 04:23.22 | MonMotha | no, the ATI All In Wonder series |
| 04:23.38 | MonMotha | I have an old AIW Pro AGP, using the Rage Pro chipset |
| 04:23.43 | sorphin | T`: indeed |
| 04:24.12 | T` | MonMotha, aaah ok. well tuner is just on the i2c bus, the driver uses it to control the channel.. the bt chip is what gives you the video frames.. i believe they might be using some stone age digitizer |
| 04:24.46 | sorphin | T`: tridge has messed w/ that stuff, as has my friend alex |
| 04:24.55 | MonMotha | T`: yup |
| 04:25.03 | sorphin | hacking tivos to use PAL tuners |
| 04:25.09 | T` | aah i c |
| 04:25.18 | MonMotha | by now, I'd think that by now someone would have written a driver for the digitizer though if it was documented |
| 04:25.22 | MonMotha | it was a fairly common card |
| 04:25.37 | MonMotha | there is a driver (GATOS project), but it doesn't use v4l and doesn't support everything |
| 04:25.49 | sorphin | MonMotha: i've used GATOS |
| 04:25.58 | MonMotha | for the TV tuner stuff? |
| 04:26.02 | T` | oh wait.. now i remember thats the card i have i think! i used GATOS to watch TV a while ago |
| 04:26.13 | sorphin | my thinkpad has an ATI Rage Pro 128 Mobility |
| 04:26.18 | sorphin | w/ VIVO |
| 04:26.26 | sorphin | does OpenGL and the video crap |
| 04:26.28 | T` | yea.. u can use my design for laptops :) |
| 04:26.38 | T` | or TVs with dead tuners or something |
| 04:27.07 | MonMotha | hum, well I can use my pcHDTV as a secondary tuner when I get it anyway |
| 04:27.21 | MonMotha | so that will give me two tuners, which should be plenty :) |
| 04:27.34 | sorphin | MonMotha: i don't even have an HDTV now.. so any HD programming isn't really appealing ot me right now |
| 04:28.03 | MonMotha | sorphin: I just use my computer monitor, which is capable of 720p |
| 04:28.08 | T` | MonMotha, just to let u know.. it shouldn't be hard to built your own HDTV PCI card if u have experience with PCI design |
| 04:28.20 | MonMotha | T`: I don't really, and the pcHDTV is pretty reasonably priced |
| 04:28.31 | sorphin | MonMotha: well, i'd rather use a real tv (not near my machines) |
| 04:28.33 | T` | MonMotha, the mixer circuit, etc.. are all in the frontend which they probably get from some other company |
| 04:28.33 | MonMotha | T`: I'm sure I could do it if I sat down and worked at it, but I've never done any PCI design |
| 04:28.52 | T` | MonMotha, how much does it cost ? |
| 04:28.53 | MonMotha | most of my work has been low speed microcontroller work so far |
| 04:29.06 | sorphin | T`: you better be around wednesday ;) |
| 04:29.13 | MonMotha | T`: $189.99 |
| 04:29.20 | T` | sorphin, u bet :-) |
| 04:29.26 | MonMotha | I could probably do cheaper, though not much in the end |
| 04:29.35 | sorphin | MonMotha: until what is it... June of 2005 when that bill goes into effect? ;) |
| 04:29.37 | MonMotha | I do get to make boards for cheap |
| 04:29.38 | T` | sorphin, my prof will fire me if i dont show up ;P |
| 04:29.43 | MonMotha | sorphin: true, it doesn't obey the broadcast flag |
| 04:29.52 | T` | sorphin, i skipped work all last week and the next 2 days.. got GRE on tuesday |
| 04:29.53 | sorphin | MonMotha: which supposedly it doesn't ;) |
| 04:30.01 | T` | MonMotha, how so ? |
| 04:30.16 | T` | MonMotha, u work for a fab ? |
| 04:30.20 | MonMotha | T`: whois me :) |
| 04:30.38 | T` | oh the $33 student price from 4pcb ? |
| 04:30.43 | MonMotha | I can do two layer boards on our board milling machine in the basement |
| 04:30.58 | MonMotha | I have to provide my own drill bits though |
| 04:31.02 | MonMotha | but use of the machine is free |
| 04:31.13 | T` | wow.. never did anything like that |
| 04:31.26 | MonMotha | yeah, we have a lot of fun stuff here |
| 04:31.31 | T` | is this similar to nail polish + acid method ? or different ? |
| 04:31.32 | MonMotha | pay through the nose for it though |
| 04:31.42 | MonMotha | I'm not really sure how it works as I've never done it |
| 04:31.51 | T` | MonMotha, hey! dont talk to me about "paying through the nose" |
| 04:32.03 | MonMotha | apparently they start with stock copper clad and mill off the places you don't want traces or fills |
| 04:32.16 | MonMotha | true, CMU isn't cheap |
| 04:32.36 | MonMotha | Rose is expensive too though; they are the #1 school of undergrad science, math, and engineering in the USA that doesn't give a Ph.D |
| 04:32.52 | T` | MonMotha, yea.. i just got hired full time this year.. so i effectively am paying for 1 year of undergrad.. rest is covered by CMU |
| 04:33.03 | T` | MonMotha, aah i c.. no aid ? |
| 04:33.15 | MonMotha | I have some, but it's still expensive |
| 04:33.46 | T` | i c.. yea ur school is as expensive as CMU!! |
| 04:33.53 | T` | 37.5k! damn |
| 04:33.55 | MonMotha | heh, told you :) |
| 04:34.06 | T` | cmu is like 38k i think.. |
| 04:34.08 | MonMotha | I paid $35k or so last year w/ my aid |
| 04:34.13 | T` | heh i c |
| 04:34.18 | MonMotha | though that was because I had to buy a laptop (that's a giant space heater) |
| 04:34.41 | MonMotha | anyway, any good resources for designing PCI stuff? |
| 04:35.24 | T` | i have a mindshare book on PCI design.. its pretty good |
| 04:35.43 | MonMotha | heh, or I could just dive in :) |
| 04:35.50 | MonMotha | that's how I started with microcontroller stuff |
| 04:36.34 | T` | well.. its not that hard.. just like any other spec.. however there are rules on your PCB design to make the board work properly |
| 04:37.02 | T` | and i dont think u can mill your own boards.. just get a board fabbed at www.4pcb.com.. for students it $33/board |
| 04:37.18 | MonMotha | I've seen some pretty zany stuff milled here |
| 04:37.21 | T` | i just put like 10 different designs on one.. make some random fake wires to connect them all and send in as one board :-X |
| 04:37.57 | T` | http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201309742/mindsharecom/002-5551414-5872012 |
| 04:39.27 | MonMotha | I don't see why I couldn't make my own board here. I know it's got enough precision to do really tiny SMT parts like TSSOPs with no problem |
| 04:41.16 | T` | time? |
| 04:41.50 | MonMotha | time? |
| 04:42.48 | T` | time to make the boards |
| 04:43.04 | MonMotha | not sure as I've never done it |
| 04:43.21 | MonMotha | but there's usually no line |
| 04:43.46 | T` | no.. i meant its probably not worth the time u spend to make the board cuz u have to do it by hand |
| 04:44.12 | MonMotha | no |
| 04:44.37 | MonMotha | you just feed it all the board layout files from cadence and let it go |
| 04:45.26 | MonMotha | (we're definately a cadence shop around here) |
| 04:46.31 | MonMotha | I know for classes they just have you email the glob of files to a guy and he makes them all and throws them in your mailbox. Usually 1 day turnaround on that |
| 04:46.48 | MonMotha | but for personal projects, you have to get it set up and started yourself, and provide your own bits |
| 04:48.09 | MonMotha | my impression is that most of the overhead with it is getting it all set up, populating the drills, etc |
| 04:48.31 | MonMotha | I guess I could talk with someone I know who's used it |
| 04:48.59 | T` | aah! |
| 04:49.18 | T` | god! i have to convince my prof to buy that machine |
| 04:49.23 | T` | would we awesome |
| 04:49.37 | MonMotha | heh |
| 04:49.56 | MonMotha | yeah, it's nice |
| 04:50.15 | MonMotha | it was bought for our development with industry (industry funded projects) program |
| 04:50.22 | MonMotha | but it's available for use by all students of course |
| 04:50.38 | T` | i c... u know the model of the machine ? |
| 04:50.59 | MonMotha | nope, I've not even seen it |
| 04:51.11 | MonMotha | I've just talked with a couple people who have used it |
| 04:51.14 | T` | uh ok |
| 04:52.09 | MonMotha | oh, and we tried to have a board made for a class project, but the instructions were flawed and the traces ended up being razor thin :) |
| 04:52.22 | T` | haha.. 1mil :) |
| 04:52.45 | MonMotha | yup |
| 04:53.04 | T` | i screwed up a board big time.. too much current drain though these 5mil traces.. the board practically fried when i powered it |
| 04:53.09 | sorphin | mmm... vandegraff generator |
| 04:53.12 | MonMotha | T`: yeah, so they didn't make the boards for us since we would probably have just burned up the traces |
| 04:53.21 | T` | that was back 2 years ago. when i was even more stupid and naive :-) |
| 04:53.34 | MonMotha | heh |
| 04:54.13 | MonMotha | but we were all set up to have a board dropped in our mailbox :) |
| 04:54.47 | T` | heh i c |
| 04:55.04 | MonMotha | yep, there are nice things about paying through the nose for this kind of stuff |
| 04:55.21 | MonMotha | heck, I could go hop into one of the EE labs right now if I wanted to do something |
| 04:55.29 | MonMotha | as long as you don't break anything, they don't care |
| 04:55.41 | T` | anyone here know a place to find native chinese components ? i am trying to find a suitable replacement for a low voltage op-amp for mass production |
| 04:56.05 | MonMotha | heh, no clue :) |
| 04:56.43 | MonMotha | tried china? :) |
| 04:56.50 | T` | MonMotha, ah thats cool.. we have good lab facilities here too but most people dont use them too much... |
| 04:57.04 | MonMotha | yeah, these are underused for personal stuff too |
| 04:57.11 | T` | yes.. thats where i want to manufacture these boards.. but havent found any ideas on finding a suitable manufacturer |
| 04:57.13 | MonMotha | the profs always like to see people using them for out of class stuff though |
| 04:57.29 | MonMotha | I'm also a member of our ham radio club, which is kinda the EE department's baby :) |
| 04:57.36 | T` | haha i c |
| 04:57.40 | MonMotha | if you hear W9NAA on the air, it's probably me |
| 04:57.44 | MonMotha | at least on HF |
| 04:58.09 | T` | we are big on robotics.. got many students working on robots which are of no use what so ever.. but fun |
| 04:58.39 | T` | dct5000 ? |
| 04:58.59 | T` | u guys hacking a set-top box ? |
| 04:59.05 | sorphin | T`: motorola digital cable box, w/ a MIPS cpu, etc in it |
| 04:59.16 | sorphin | T`: but has a masked rom |
| 04:59.21 | MonMotha | T`: we're attempting to, yes |
| 04:59.30 | sorphin | T`: Tim's former company was doing linux for it |
| 04:59.31 | MonMotha | T`: we have a robot helicopter here actually |
| 04:59.34 | MonMotha | I don't work on it though |
| 04:59.52 | MonMotha | we used to do a solar car, but that got expensive |
| 04:59.52 | Soopaman | MonMotha, what steps do you take to initially "hack" a closed box? |
| 05:00.15 | MonMotha | Soopaman: well, usually take the sucker apart; do a visual inventory of what's in it to try to get a feel for how the startup sequence may proceede |
| 05:00.26 | MonMotha | someone was nice enough to give us info on the JTAG bus on this sucker, even has a nice header |
| 05:00.48 | sorphin | MonMotha: and that rom stuff doesn't hurt, even tho ours doesn't have that cuz of the masked rom |
| 05:00.53 | Soopaman | ahh, so it's almost always hardware hack in, then look around to re-create with software? |
| 05:00.56 | MonMotha | then you want to see if you can get your code running on it. That's where the mask ROM is making us mad since we can't flash that |
| 05:01.13 | T` | MonMotha, i work in a helicopter lab too :) |
| 05:01.26 | T` | MonMotha, we are the best in the world currently.. |
| 05:01.30 | MonMotha | someone did a little reverse engineering on that ROM and found that we should be able to get it to boot our own code from the flash, though we may just replace the mask rom with our own flash part as it's socketed |
| 05:01.38 | MonMotha | T`: is it autonomous though? |
| 05:01.54 | sorphin | MonMotha: i'd do it myself if i had the resources |
| 05:02.01 | MonMotha | sorphin: heh, I lack the time |
| 05:02.01 | T` | MonMotha, yes |
| 05:02.08 | sorphin | MonMotha: make time ;) |
| 05:02.13 | T` | MonMotha, we are the ones who started it 13 years ago |
| 05:02.14 | sorphin | MonMotha: stop taking these other projects :P |
| 05:02.20 | MonMotha | T`: hum, I'm trying to remember if rose has competed against CMU, probably |
| 05:02.42 | T` | MonMotha, well.. now we are exclusive to defense/NASA research.. no more competition |
| 05:02.48 | MonMotha | ah |
| 05:03.02 | MonMotha | Soopaman: well, our objective is to get the box running our own code, not to steal cable |
| 05:03.19 | sorphin | yeah, we don't really care that it's a digital cable box |
| 05:03.25 | MonMotha | if you just want to steal cable, all you have to do is plug it in on most systems :) |
| 05:03.26 | T` | MonMotha, i am talking about industrial helicopter.. not RC helicopters :) |
| 05:03.38 | sorphin | MonMotha: not really |
| 05:03.39 | MonMotha | T`: ah, this is that autonomous helicopter contest |
| 05:03.50 | sorphin | MonMotha: cuz if the headend doesn't recognize the boxes serial, it won't talk to it |
| 05:03.56 | MonMotha | sorphin: the networks around here allow any box full access to the network until they restrict it |
| 05:04.00 | MonMotha | yes, Charter is THAT STUPID |
| 05:04.07 | sorphin | MonMotha: uh.. we have charter |
| 05:04.14 | T` | sorphin, why not just read the flash from the board directly ? |
| 05:04.19 | T` | sorphin, byte code hacking :) |
| 05:04.21 | MonMotha | well, I know people have stolen cable here by simply bringing in a cable box and hooking it up |
| 05:04.28 | MonMotha | T`: we have a dump of the ROM |
| 05:04.35 | sorphin | MonMotha: well, i've hooked this box up |
| 05:04.38 | sorphin | MonMotha: saw nada |
| 05:04.45 | sorphin | on the vid output |
| 05:04.45 | T` | MonMotha, well.. why not assemble the code and look at the code ? |
| 05:04.53 | MonMotha | sorphin: apparently you have to let it sit there and download it's OS |
| 05:04.57 | MonMotha | its SO |
| 05:04.58 | MonMotha | bleh |
| 05:05.04 | MonMotha | T`: that's what was done :) |
| 05:05.16 | T` | MonMotha, what are u guys trying to do anyway ? |
| 05:05.18 | *** part/#elinux T0mW (tom@24.229.169.252.res-cmts.tv13.ptd.net) |
| 05:05.27 | MonMotha | we have some notes somewhere. it is apparently possible to place code in flash and have it called by the boot ROM with no questions asked |
| 05:05.31 | sorphin | T`: they have usable lil MIPS cpus, and other nice HW in them |
| 05:05.45 | Soopaman | MonMotha, is the awful side effect of hacking the box the ability to get free cable? :) |
| 05:05.46 | T` | sorphin, ok? |
| 05:05.50 | MonMotha | T`: well, I'd love to get it working as a MythTV frontend, even if I could only do MPEG2 |
| 05:06.11 | sorphin | T`: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/DCT5000 |
| 05:06.53 | MonMotha | they have pretty dynamite TV out (of course), hardware MPEG2 decode, DOCIS cable mode, QAM digicable, Rage Pro (iirc) gfx, 10/100 ethernet, IEEE 1394, and what we believe to be a hdd connector |
| 05:07.09 | Soopaman | that's not a bad box at all |
| 05:07.15 | sorphin | MonMotha: not just rage pro |
| 05:07.22 | sorphin | MonMotha: the theatre chip too |
| 05:07.23 | MonMotha | so actually, if you got really fancy, you could make one of those PVRs that just streams the raw MPEG2 from the digital cable uplink to the drive and plays it back later |
| 05:07.26 | MonMotha | so no quality loss |
| 05:07.30 | MonMotha | sorphin: I thought that was the MPEG2 decoder |
| 05:07.39 | Soopaman | MonMotha, how much was the box? |
| 05:07.46 | sorphin | Soopaman: $50 from timriker |
| 05:07.48 | MonMotha | $50, while supplies lasted |
| 05:07.54 | sorphin | MonMotha: and they didn't last ;) |
| 05:08.03 | Soopaman | heheh, how does tim get all these fantastic toys? |
| 05:08.17 | sorphin | Soopaman: well, at the time, he was/had worked at lineo |
| 05:08.29 | sorphin | and lineo was the ones doing the linux work for it |
| 05:08.32 | Soopaman | ahh |
| 05:08.36 | sorphin | but it got scrapped |
| 05:08.47 | sorphin | the vr5432 |
| 05:08.50 | Soopaman | how many boxes were left? |
| 05:08.54 | MonMotha | Soopaman: not many |
| 05:08.56 | sorphin | is the same MIPS that's in the normal S2 tivo |
| 05:08.56 | MonMotha | like 10 |
| 05:09.07 | sorphin | so i'd like this pile of $100 to get some use :P |
| 05:09.14 | Soopaman | heh |
| 05:09.19 | MonMotha | sorphin: well, at the least, they're worth more than that as digital cable boxes |
| 05:09.28 | MonMotha | and you should be able to call up your cable co and get the box auth'd |
| 05:09.39 | sorphin | heh |
| 05:09.39 | MonMotha | there's apparently an FCC reg that says they have to let you do that |
| 05:09.46 | sorphin | MonMotha: not really since we don't have digital cable |
| 05:09.59 | MonMotha | well, you'd have to buy digital cable |
| 05:10.02 | sorphin | right |
| 05:10.06 | sorphin | and that'll never happen ;) |
| 05:10.09 | MonMotha | but they couldn't charge you to rent the box |
| 05:10.13 | MonMotha | since it's yours |
| 05:10.13 | sorphin | right |
| 05:10.27 | sorphin | right |
| 05:10.42 | sorphin | MonMotha: i'd personally like to use them for better purposes |
| 05:10.43 | sorphin | tho |
| 05:10.53 | MonMotha | as would I |
| 05:11.02 | MonMotha | I'd really love to see a myth frontend with full hardware decoder support |
| 05:11.52 | T` | why hack if u cant get that box anymore :/ |
| 05:11.53 | MonMotha | getting the linux kernel booting would be a nice start though :) |
| 05:12.05 | MonMotha | T`: it's still made, just not easily acquireable by hackers :) |
| 05:12.20 | MonMotha | the DCT-5000 is the base model of what is usually used by the cable company provided PVR boxes |
| 05:12.30 | MonMotha | (DCT-5500 IIRC is the one with the HDD preinstalled) |
| 05:12.34 | T` | hmm ic.. so whats the non-hacker way to acquire one? |
| 05:12.35 | sorphin | T`: yo ujust don't understand do you? |
| 05:12.41 | MonMotha | T`: ebay likely |
| 05:12.50 | sorphin | MonMotha: 5002 |
| 05:12.53 | MonMotha | and don't ask where they got it from :) |
| 05:12.58 | sorphin | MonMotha: according to tim |
| 05:13.02 | sorphin | or 5003 |
| 05:13.04 | T` | hehe.. well i was just curious |
| 05:13.16 | sorphin | T`: i'll sell you one for $50 :P |
| 05:13.29 | MonMotha | it's hard to actually purchase them in small quantity since everyone assumes you want to steal cable |
| 05:13.38 | T` | sorphin, hmm. not bad.. i dont have cable here though |
| 05:13.56 | sorphin | T`: again, they're hack toys at this point |
| 05:14.07 | MonMotha | you could probably get by if you were willing to buy a few thousand :) |
| 05:14.17 | Soopaman | why not just buy tivo's like me :D |
| 05:14.21 | MonMotha | or buy them from a shady outfit who assumes you want to steal cable :) |
| 05:14.25 | sorphin | Soopaman: uhh |
| 05:14.36 | sorphin | ~bitchslap Soopaman the stupid canadian |
| 05:14.38 | ibot | ACTION beats the sh*t out of Soopaman the stupid canadian |
| 05:14.45 | T` | sorphin, can it do HD ? |
| 05:14.57 | sorphin | T`: it's a digital cable box |
| 05:15.15 | T` | sorphin, is that a yes ? |
| 05:15.32 | sorphin | T`: it's an i don't have a clue, since i don't have either HDTV nor digital cable |
| 05:15.46 | MonMotha | T`: my guess is yes |
| 05:15.54 | MonMotha | at least from what I know of the TV output hardware |
| 05:16.03 | MonMotha | the MPEG decoder may not be fast enough to decode a 1080i signal though, not sue |
| 05:16.04 | MonMotha | sure |
| 05:16.19 | sorphin | MonMotha: well, there is HD other than 1080i |
| 05:16.27 | MonMotha | sorphin: true, it may be able to do 720x |
| 05:16.32 | T` | i c... hmm cool.. might wanna hack a bit when i got time |
| 05:16.41 | MonMotha | 1080i is what is commonly broadcast in the US as "hi-def" |
| 05:16.53 | MonMotha | some stations do 720p, or rarely 720i |
| 05:16.53 | sorphin | MonMotha: my prob is i always buy in pairs |
| 05:17.04 | sorphin | hence the webpals, tuxscreens, dcts |
| 05:17.12 | MonMotha | I ended up with 4 webpals, to do hardware hacking |
| 05:17.30 | sorphin | MonMotha: well, my webpals work now.. i just have nothing to do w/ them right now |
| 05:17.39 | MonMotha | I need to get linux on them |
| 05:17.45 | MonMotha | I've got one hacked up quite a bit |
| 05:17.49 | MonMotha | have a laptop HDD for it |
| 05:18.00 | MonMotha | no clue what I'm actually going to do with it though :) |
| 05:18.03 | MonMotha | maybe an MP3 player? |
| 05:18.10 | MonMotha | I could put a hardware decoder in it |
| 05:18.11 | sorphin | heh |
| 05:18.24 | MonMotha | though it has an FPU; may be fast enough to decode in software |
| 05:18.41 | T` | MonMotha, i will sell u a mp3 hack kit :) i built one a few months ago.. heh |
| 05:18.41 | MonMotha | I should put a floppy drive on it, just because I can |
| 05:18.51 | MonMotha | heh, I've got all the stuff to do hardware MP3 |
| 05:18.53 | sorphin | stupid AOL commercials |
| 05:19.00 | T` | heh |
| 05:19.06 | MonMotha | using STA013 |
| 05:19.08 | sorphin | MonMotha: sucks that i couldn't pull more ISA lines |
| 05:19.19 | MonMotha | yeah, there's just not much left unused |
| 05:19.35 | MonMotha | you could grab a couple more interrupts if you want, though they're edge triggered |
| 05:19.36 | sorphin | MonMotha: and it doesn't provide some too |
| 05:19.45 | sorphin | MonMotha: interrupts aren't the issue |
| 05:19.53 | sorphin | most cards wan't DMA |
| 05:19.56 | sorphin | want |
| 05:19.58 | MonMotha | however, the superio chip is wired up for edge trigger, and connected to a level, so you could steal that one and reroute it |
| 05:20.00 | sorphin | of some sort |
| 05:20.01 | T` | no DMA controller on this ? |
| 05:20.05 | MonMotha | yeah, you're not gunna do DMA on this sucker |
| 05:20.14 | sorphin | T`: on the webpal? no |
| 05:20.20 | sorphin | it's a cirrus ARM |
| 05:20.29 | MonMotha | at least not without some VERY serious hacking (I recall it has a bus hold mechanism, but you'd have to bring your own DMA controlle) |
| 05:21.00 | MonMotha | PIO for YOU! |
| 05:21.08 | T` | hmm i c |
| 05:21.25 | sorphin | MonMotha: well, the prob is, all the cards i have (even the NE2000 based) cads i have i nthe Tivos |
| 05:21.27 | sorphin | won't work |
| 05:21.30 | MonMotha | there was someone who threw an FPGA in a webpal, just to have fun :) |
| 05:21.31 | sorphin | s/cads/cards/ |
| 05:21.36 | MonMotha | I've never seen an NE2000 that required DMA |
| 05:21.44 | sorphin | MonMotha: yeah, bigbrd put in an RTC chip |
| 05:21.45 | MonMotha | the 8390 didn't support it |
| 05:21.48 | T` | life is so simplified now.. i have dma controllers on board on all these new embedded processors |
| 05:21.56 | sorphin | MonMotha: the lines this card requires tho |
| 05:21.59 | MonMotha | yeah, that's how I was going to wire up my MP3 decoder |
| 05:22.02 | sorphin | aren't there |
| 05:22.06 | MonMotha | using those GPIOs |
| 05:22.38 | sorphin | i remember, cuz i mapped out the isa connector |
| 05:22.48 | sorphin | and the signals were no where to be found on the webpal |
| 05:22.55 | MonMotha | I can then put an IO expander on my I2C bus (those lines are open collector, suitable for bit banging I2C directly, which the STA013 requires anyway) to control the lines I just stole from the TV encoder |
| 05:23.10 | MonMotha | (which aren't really needed anyway) |
| 05:23.19 | MonMotha | yeah, it has no DMA functionality |
| 05:23.28 | MonMotha | the PS7500 is actually a really tough proc to work with |
| 05:23.34 | MonMotha | lots of legacy functionality |
| 05:23.40 | MonMotha | that you just have to turn off |
| 05:23.46 | sorphin | MonMotha: what really sucks is my poor WSP can't do IDE anymore :(... traces for the resistor networks are borked, and as many times as i've tried to fix it.. |
| 05:23.56 | sorphin | still won't do proper |
| 05:24.29 | MonMotha | tried re-running the lines with 30 guage? |
| 05:25.00 | sorphin | MonMotha: some of em are hard.. |
| 05:25.03 | MonMotha | PIO IDE should be clocked slow enough that you shoudl be able to run your own lines without too mcuh problem |
| 05:25.21 | sorphin | MonMotha: i may just use the DOC |
| 05:25.25 | MonMotha | I know I've seen PIO mode 0 done on a wire-wrapped board :) |
| 05:25.45 | sorphin | what's funny is my SBCs all have DOC sockets... too bad i'll never use them.. since they are gonna be Olives |
| 05:25.52 | sorphin | and JunOS won't talk to a DOC |
| 05:25.54 | MonMotha | DOC? |
| 05:26.02 | sorphin | DisknChip |
| 05:26.05 | sorphin | On even |
| 05:26.07 | MonMotha | oh |
| 05:26.09 | MonMotha | those thing |
| 05:26.18 | MonMotha | don't they require a binary driver in linux? |
| 05:26.25 | sorphin | heh |
| 05:26.35 | MonMotha | (which I think is only available for x86) |
| 05:26.57 | MonMotha | you can do that? |
| 05:26.58 | sorphin | in linux |
| 05:27.01 | sorphin | uh |
| 05:27.05 | sorphin | that's how the kernel sees it |
| 05:27.18 | MonMotha | that's how they work in hardware though? |
| 05:27.28 | sorphin | just compiled a normal kernel w/ DOC support |
| 05:27.38 | sorphin | MonMotha: if it were a binary driver |
| 05:27.42 | MonMotha | oh, they made a driver for it? |
| 05:27.43 | sorphin | it couldn't be shipped w/ the kernel ;) |
| 05:27.54 | MonMotha | I know the dev kit for the SBC I have went all nuts about this binary driver you had to use |
| 05:27.57 | sorphin | MonMotha: in the core, it's just NAND flash |
| 05:28.04 | MonMotha | it's in 2.4, right? |
| 05:28.11 | sorphin | ya |
| 05:28.21 | sorphin | you used to have to use their driver |
| 05:28.25 | MonMotha | wow...I didn't see that |
| 05:28.29 | sorphin | ;) |
| 05:28.31 | MonMotha | when did those drivers come around? |
| 05:28.45 | sorphin | MonMotha: not sure what version.. it's been quite a while |
| 05:29.06 | MonMotha | do they offer samples by chance? |
| 05:29.16 | sorphin | don't think so |
| 05:29.24 | sorphin | but i know where you can get some... 72M cheap |
| 05:29.45 | MonMotha | hum, because I have an x86 SBC that supporst it |
| 05:29.57 | MonMotha | I'd like to use it so I can run my "firmware" off a separate device from my storage |
| 05:30.08 | sorphin | MonMotha: fyi, look in the kernel for: |
| 05:30.17 | MonMotha | I'm currently using CF for both purposes, btu that means that if I upgrade a customer I have to move the firmware partition to the new card |
| 05:30.24 | MonMotha | I'dl ike to be able to just slap a new CF card in and have it work |
| 05:30.24 | sorphin | M-Systems Disk-On-Chip 2000 :P |
| 05:30.29 | MonMotha | yeah, I see it |
| 05:30.49 | MonMotha | using the DiskOnChip would also make "hacking" my device at least more difficult for the casual person |
| 05:31.10 | sorphin | moron sent me the wrong ones, and i'm waiting for him to get a hold of the person he sent mine to |
| 05:31.33 | sorphin | MonMotha: http://www.emulatorshop.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=E&Product_Code=DOC-72&Category_Code=EA |
| 05:32.14 | MonMotha | it shows up as flash, right? so it would be wise to use jffs? |
| 05:32.53 | sorphin | yeah, you use the MTD driver for it |
| 05:33.10 | sorphin | i dunno, i've never had anything other than FAT on them |
| 05:33.16 | sorphin | well |
| 05:33.23 | sorphin | cept when they have QNX on them originally |
| 05:33.37 | MonMotha | well, I'd need at least a UNIX type fs, so I would be using ext2 if I used NFTL |
| 05:33.45 | sorphin | blech |
| 05:33.46 | sorphin | ext2 |
| 05:33.55 | MonMotha | but if I'm going to do that, I might as well just use jffs2 |
| 05:34.00 | MonMotha | well, in general, my systems run readonly |
| 05:34.13 | sorphin | MonMotha: FYI |
| 05:34.32 | MonMotha | yes? |
| 05:35.00 | sorphin | my SBCS are: McroTek MSPC-6886 |
| 05:35.06 | sorphin | Macrotek even |
| 05:35.20 | sorphin | and atleast these support P3s :P since they have them on already |
| 05:35.23 | MonMotha | we already have one I use for development. It's a Technologic Systems TS-4500 |
| 05:35.24 | sorphin | least mine do |
| 05:35.29 | MonMotha | heh, these are AMD Elans :) |
| 05:35.42 | sorphin | MonMotha: the ones in the crystal PCs were made by TrentonTech |
| 05:35.54 | sorphin | bastards changed revs to handle P3s |
| 05:36.05 | sorphin | so.. |
| 05:36.06 | sorphin | nod |
| 05:36.15 | MonMotha | this is dual etherent, 64MB of RAM, 2MB of flash |
| 05:36.22 | MonMotha | they come with less RAM normally |
| 05:36.26 | MonMotha | but my dev kit has additional |
| 05:36.36 | sorphin | well, for what i need these for... |
| 05:36.45 | sorphin | no special HW |
| 05:37.05 | MonMotha | these are also made to run linux |
| 05:37.41 | sorphin | nod |
| 05:37.51 | sorphin | MonMotha: these will be routing ;) |
| 05:38.05 | MonMotha | this has done that |
| 05:38.12 | MonMotha | though not w/ much bandwidth |
| 05:38.14 | MonMotha | a couple T1s or so |
| 05:38.44 | MonMotha | I'm going to make it into a mail server next I think |
| 05:39.03 | MonMotha | I think our clients would get a kick out of a mail server you could hold in your hand |
| 05:39.03 | sorphin | MonMotha: these will be Juniper Olives |
| 05:39.22 | MonMotha | ah, so you're hacking together some real hardware |
| 05:39.24 | sorphin | MonMotha: these are PICMG boards |
| 05:39.36 | sorphin | that plug into isa/pci backplanes |
| 05:39.42 | sorphin | diff type of SBC |
| 05:40.01 | MonMotha | yup |
| 05:40.05 | MonMotha | this is just a little embedded unit |
| 05:40.31 | MonMotha | well, I think I'm going to head to bed |
| 05:40.34 | MonMotha | I do have class tomorrow |
| 05:41.28 | sorphin | yeah |
| 05:41.33 | sorphin | waiting on my laundry to dry |
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| 06:04.39 | T0mW | ~prpplague |
| 06:04.40 | ibot | i heard prpplague is mailto:danders@amltd.com or Dave Anders |
| 06:04.57 | sorphin | T0mW: yo |
| 06:05.27 | T0mW | prpplague: it is definately the CPLD! I lifted pin 76 off the CPLD (data bit 6) and now I can read that bit via JTAG. |
| 06:06.52 | T0mW | sorphin: bbiam |
| 06:09.57 | T0mW | sorphin: Damn! that was a bitch to figure out! |
| 06:10.54 | T0mW | finally dawned on me that if I thought that this part was jamming the Databus, then why not lift one pin and find out. So... I got out the microscope... |
| 06:11.00 | sorphin | nod |
| 06:11.29 | T0mW | now to put the pin back so the dev board will run again! |
| 06:12.59 | sorphin | nod |
| 06:13.53 | T0mW | done |
| 06:14.27 | sorphin | nod |
| 06:14.49 | T0mW | hooboy, we are just a few hours away from getting this working. That is once Dave wakes his lazy tail up and gets back to work! |
| 06:14.51 | T0mW | heh |
| 06:15.32 | sorphin | heh |
| 06:19.10 | T0mW | sorphin: hey, you want a ham + cheese sandwich, or aren't you hungry? |
| 06:22.40 | sorphin | T0mW: i'm always up for a ham n cheese |
| 06:22.51 | sorphin | (too bad i didn't have one w/ my clam chowder i just had) |
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| 06:58.34 | T` | hrmm.. so everyone's sleeping ? |
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| 07:40.52 | cdm_ | evening. |
| 07:48.39 | T` | heh.. its night :) heading to bed.. gnite |
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| 10:03.27 | T0mW | ~prpplague |
| 10:03.28 | ibot | prpplague is, like, mailto:danders@amltd.com or Dave Anders |
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| 11:57.12 | T0mW | Mr mallum, good morning |
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