| 00:04.43 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: have you been looking for larger memory chips for the webpal? |
| 00:50.28 | *** join/#elinux andersee (~andersen@codepoet.org) |
| 00:50.28 | *** mode/#eLinux [+o andersee] by ChanServ |
| 01:24.25 | *** join/#elinux TomW (tom@147seg-pc-1624-14.msns.str.ptd.net) |
| 01:24.50 | TomW | doesn't look like any schematics exist for the webpal. I am still looking... |
| 01:25.24 | sorphin | MonMotha: ups tracking #'s take a lil to appear |
| 01:25.35 | sorphin | TomW: they don't ;p |
| 01:28.31 | TomW | yeah, my webpals have fallen off the face of the earth into the UPS Ground system. Amazing, they disappear for 4..5 days, and suddenly, they reappear again in the tracking system. spooky! |
| 01:29.15 | sorphin | heh |
| 01:29.59 | TomW | I wonder if UPS even knows where the packages are while in transit, or more likely, it is like the US Postal Service, people keep finding shit and tossing it into different outbound baskets until your local postman gets it. |
| 01:30.07 | TomW | willy-nilly delivery |
| 01:30.12 | sorphin | umm |
| 01:30.15 | sorphin | i can tell you |
| 01:30.19 | sorphin | since i WORKED for ups |
| 01:30.22 | sorphin | :P |
| 01:30.28 | TomW | you were a postal employee? |
| 01:30.31 | sorphin | no |
| 01:30.34 | sorphin | UPS not USPS |
| 01:30.36 | TomW | good |
| 01:30.42 | sorphin | anyways |
| 01:30.54 | sorphin | it gets scanned quite frequently |
| 01:31.03 | TomW | don't want to have to dive for cover each time I see you (fear of you going postal). |
| 01:31.04 | TomW | ;) |
| 01:31.06 | sorphin | just not everything shows on the website |
| 01:31.30 | TomW | sorphin: yeah, they don't want the customers to see how badly they operate? |
| 01:31.30 | sorphin | all the website shows is arrival and departure at each hub |
| 01:31.35 | sorphin | no |
| 01:31.40 | TomW | lol |
| 01:31.44 | sorphin | it's just unnecessary |
| 01:31.57 | sorphin | it scans when a sorter gets it |
| 01:32.07 | sorphin | it scans several otehr times along the way |
| 01:32.14 | sorphin | it scans when it arrives and departs |
| 01:32.55 | TomW | in their opinion, I would rather enjoy watching the anticapted package worm it's way through the system. Kind of like watching CSCO on the NASDAQ. |
| 01:33.06 | sorphin | well |
| 01:33.13 | sorphin | it's not meant for that |
| 01:33.31 | sorphin | you wouldn't wanna see how its put on/taken off the truck tho ;) |
| 01:33.39 | TomW | yeah. I got 16Meg FPM DRAMs ready for it. |
| 01:33.54 | TomW | sorphin: I've seen some of the results. |
| 01:34.05 | sorphin | see the prob is |
| 01:34.09 | sorphin | w/ the volume UPS does |
| 01:34.29 | sorphin | you can't take the time to be extra careful, you HAVE to put shit on the truck AS it comes to you (speed wise) |
| 01:34.38 | sorphin | so sometimes small shit ends up on the bottom |
| 01:34.42 | sorphin | that's why you pack well |
| 01:35.02 | TomW | sorphin: and, in large boxes. |
| 01:35.08 | sorphin | that too ;) |
| 01:35.22 | TomW | not in small ones, yeah, I know that one. Fill the box with "air". |
| 01:36.39 | TomW | I learned how to pack stuff for shipment while working my first job in electronics. Part of my job was to help the shipping clerk pack boxes in the afternoon: Electronics Bench Tester for Monroe Calculator Company. |
| 01:55.13 | sorphin | stupid fscking post office |
| 01:55.26 | sorphin | as usual DIDN'T leave my fscking package |
| 01:55.38 | sorphin | so now i have to have mom go pick it up tomorrow |
| 01:55.48 | sorphin | looks like i need to waver w/ them too |
| 01:55.53 | TomW | you got a yellow slip, eh? |
| 01:56.45 | TomW | I hate that crap, if I get a certified letter, I always have to go pick it up, the carrier doesn't even bother trying, they just write the slip out. |
| 01:57.16 | TomW | hmmm, time for an ice-cream sandwich. |
| 02:06.14 | *** join/#elinux as_ (as@modem-606.awesome.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 02:08.09 | sorphin | as_: freenet really needs better naming |
| 02:09.06 | as_ | Freenet? |
| 02:09.36 | sorphin | whatever they call themselves now |
| 02:09.50 | as_ | Oh, theyve always been freeserve. |
| 02:10.10 | sorphin | that too |
| 02:10.11 | sorphin | either way |
| 02:10.52 | as_ | Free probably refers to the phonecall. |
| 02:12.27 | sorphin | hehe |
| 02:12.42 | sorphin | s |
| 02:13.33 | as_ | I thought Id solved a problem today, but its not fast enough. Bugger. |
| 02:15.05 | *** join/#elinux levi__ (~levi@ash.lnxi.com) |
| 02:22.07 | MonMotha | well, I hope I packaged this hdd well enough (I'm RMAing a dead drive under warranty) |
| 02:22.39 | MonMotha | retail HDD box (with the foam cut to surround it), then a bigger box filled with packing peanuts and those bags filled with air |
| 02:23.45 | as_ | Just a tad. |
| 02:24.07 | file | MonMotha: I think it's fine, unless you sending USPS |
| 02:29.17 | MonMotha | file: nope, UPS |
| 02:29.35 | MonMotha | I've actually had better luck shipping things USPS Priority than UPS Ground in terms of breakage |
| 02:29.47 | file | neat |
| 02:40.30 | bhima | mon: *laugh* not surprising. |
| 02:40.32 | bhima | UPS sucks. |
| 02:40.48 | bhima | just went back to the kernel. and now it say " d" |
| 02:41.20 | bhima | what' the difference between "make zImage" and "make bzImage"? |
| 02:42.47 | file | big and small. |
| 02:42.50 | file | reversed. |
| 02:44.02 | bhima | interesting. and, err. what makes the big one, err, big? |
| 02:44.12 | as_ | Endian. |
| 02:44.26 | bhima | oop. |
| 02:44.27 | bhima | s |
| 02:45.13 | bhima | linux on the arm is little normally, correct? |
| 02:45.43 | as_ | Umm. ARM is normally big I think. |
| 02:51.45 | Lethal | bhima, bzImage is a big zImage, mostly only x86 needs it for large zImages. most other architectures don't implement it. |
| 02:51.45 | Lethal | ARM can be either endian |
| 02:52.59 | bhima | yeah. I knew it was bi-endian. the newton is big-endian. |
| 02:54.02 | as_ | bi-endian? How does it switch? |
| 02:54.15 | MonMotha | I know iPaqs and Zauruses are little endian |
| 02:54.21 | MonMotha | though yes, ARM can be either |
| 02:54.42 | bhima | "Little endian hate we" - VirtualPC about dialog. |
| 02:55.02 | bhima | as: processor registers? :) |
| 02:57.53 | as_ | A different processor mode maybe, but I'm unsure how they would make that compatable with previos CPUs. |
| 03:01.19 | andersee | bhima: "In Soviet Russia all machines were PDP endian" |
| 03:04.20 | bhima | what did the PDP do? |
| 03:04.57 | andersee | bhima: see /usr/include/endian.h |
| 03:05.04 | andersee | #define __LITTLE_ENDIAN 1234 |
| 03:05.04 | andersee | #define __BIG_ENDIAN 4321 |
| 03:05.04 | andersee | #define __PDP_ENDIAN 3412 |
| 03:05.37 | bhima | ahh, it was 16 bit little endian? :) |
| 03:06.02 | andersee | bhima: seems |
| 03:06.36 | as_ | Its a bit in the control register aparently. |
| 03:15.13 | bhima | any suggestions as to where to look to find out why my kernel won't work? is there a moderaly up to date document describing building a tux kernel anywhere? |
| 03:16.57 | MonMotha | #define __ODDBALL_ENDIAN 1239 |
| 03:17.09 | MonMotha | :-) |
| 03:17.25 | *** join/#elinux cpenguin_home (~jordanc@12-255-37-66.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:18.46 | sorphin | oh goodie |
| 03:18.46 | sorphin | file |
| 03:18.54 | file | what |
| 03:19.08 | sorphin | thought |
| 03:19.11 | file | nope |
| 03:19.14 | sorphin | damn |
| 03:19.15 | sorphin | ;p |
| 03:20.31 | file | computer backpack... mmm |
| 03:21.11 | file | or Terrapin Nylon Mini Laptop and Drive Carrying case |
| 03:22.57 | cpenguin_home | file: I've got one of those - fun and useful too |
| 03:23.20 | file | cpenguin_home: ...what? |
| 03:33.22 | *** join/#elinux prpplague (~joebob@21-190.lctv-b4.cablelynx.com) |
| 03:33.32 | cpenguin_home | computer backpack |
| 03:33.44 | file | I was tempted by it too |
| 03:33.49 | cpenguin_home | file: 0oh, thanks for reminding me |
| 03:33.52 | file | it looks nicer |
| 03:33.55 | file | what did I remind you? |
| 03:34.10 | *** mode/#eLinux [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 03:34.31 | file | I've got a 3Com Etherlink III TP :) |
| 03:34.45 | file | it's... b0rken I think, nothing a good Linux rewrite of it's EEPROM can't fix |
| 03:37.43 | Lethal | andersee, PDP-8 was middle, VAX FPU followed the same convention ;P |
| 03:37.57 | prpplague | oh no......#elinux has been de-file'd |
| 03:38.44 | file | prpplague: I'm going to sleep... so feel free to sling mud |
| 03:38.55 | prpplague | file: no mud, just jesting |
| 03:39.07 | prpplague | file: i was a teenage geek too |
| 03:39.10 | file | prpplague: fine fine |
| 03:39.34 | prpplague | file: i was banned from a few bbs's in my day |
| 03:39.39 | file | night! |
| 03:39.43 | prpplague | night |
| 03:39.50 | kergoth | prpplague: hah, i miss bbs'ing |
| 03:40.07 | file | May your 2.4.20-ac1 kernel crash less often! |
| 03:40.09 | prpplague | kergoth: ya me too |
| 03:40.16 | file | or perhaps not at all |
| 03:41.25 | cpenguin_home | woo-hoo! |
| 03:43.15 | andersee | Lethal: :-) |
| 03:45.57 | cpenguin_home | 3com 3c509 |
| 03:46.45 | cpenguin_home | From back when network cards worked hard - this bad boy has a rj45, a BNC connector, and a 21 pin connector of some sort |
| 03:47.11 | kergoth | cpenguin_home: AUI i'd say |
| 03:47.52 | Lethal | AUI rules. cables make good weapons. |
| 03:47.58 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:48.00 | kergoth | true that |
| 03:48.48 | Lethal | I think I liked arcnet better though |
| 03:49.19 | cpenguin_home | I remember arcnet, but I never encountered AUI |
| 03:51.44 | prpplague | TomW: hey dude |
| 03:51.56 | TomW | hello |
| 03:52.11 | TomW | just finished gorging myself with ice cream. |
| 03:52.56 | kergoth | hmm |
| 03:53.01 | kergoth | ice cream sounds really good, and i have none |
| 03:53.19 | TomW | always a way to fix that problem. |
| 03:53.26 | kergoth | indeed |
| 03:53.59 | TomW | We had an ice storm today, stuff is melting off now, soooo. I made a quick trip to the local gas & grocery. |
| 03:54.09 | MonMotha | AUI connectors are 15 pins |
| 03:54.12 | Lethal | things were better with webvan .. none of that getting off your ass hype. |
| 03:54.15 | MonMotha | never seen a 21 pin one... |
| 03:54.22 | TomW | Then watched the hacker stuff on TLC for a while. |
| 03:54.58 | cpenguin_home | bbias - gotta install the new nvidia drivers |
| 03:56.51 | TomW | anyone here ever work for Sun Microsystems? |
| 03:57.15 | prpplague | not knowingly :) |
| 03:57.35 | TomW | Looks like the Programmers Guild is doing some kind of lawsuit against Sun & the H1-B visa stuff. |
| 03:58.22 | prpplague | TomW: what they promised to sponsor them and didn't? |
| 03:58.23 | TomW | I was talking with a local programmer / AIX admin, he was telling me about the shit that has been happening due to H1-B. |
| 03:59.08 | TomW | American software people losing jobs to H1-B workers, then not being able to get work as companies are hiring H1-B's instead. |
| 04:00.25 | prpplague | ahh |
| 04:00.44 | *** join/#elinux cpenguin_home (~jordanc@12-255-37-66.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:01.16 | prpplague | howdy cpenguin_home --mode nvidia |
| 04:01.22 | cpenguin_home | eh? |
| 04:01.30 | TomW | his company just fired a Pakistani software guy for lying about his AIX experience. They also hire a lot of Canadian workers 'cause they're cheaper to pay. |
| 04:02.29 | TomW | I've got a friend that admins at a local InTel subsiduary and he tells me about the H1-B stuff that is going on at that place. |
| 04:03.39 | prpplague | TomW: ya well, techies in my area are also at the mercy of the employers |
| 04:03.53 | TomW | how so? |
| 04:04.09 | TomW | cpenguin_home: about what? |
| 04:05.08 | prpplague | TomW: because east texas isn't a "tech center", if you want a tech job here, you take what they pay, and since there aren't that many jobs here, most ppl accept because they don't want to move |
| 04:05.18 | *** join/#elinux as2 (as@modem-390.arcanine.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 04:05.52 | TomW | yeah, guess that would be a problem. Unless you live in a techie area, you have to take what there is. |
| 04:06.54 | TomW | Fortunately, I live next to New Jersey and the Allentown, PA has a good software industry going on. There is a lot of activity down in the Philadelphia area, about 70 miles south of me. |
| 04:06.57 | prpplague | TomW: yep, problem is, a sysadmin job that would pay 75-100k in austin or dallas only is about 25k here |
| 04:07.05 | TomW | ow |
| 04:07.43 | TomW | we need another information technology boom so the demand goes up again. |
| 04:09.03 | prpplague | TomW: fun thing is, you can get a job here in east texas and get alot of experience that you couldn't get in a big city |
| 04:09.21 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: like sheep? :-) |
| 04:09.44 | TomW | true, I always found that small companies are more apt to let you learn to do the job. |
| 04:09.54 | prpplague | TomW: green sysadmins are often responsible for setting up lots of network stuff like frame relay and dds circuits that only senior sysadmins would get to do |
| 04:10.15 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: sheep are a extra benifit :) |
| 04:10.18 | prpplague | baaaaa |
| 04:10.50 | TomW | prpplague: yeah, 'cause the employer is too cheap to pay for experienced people. The upside is that they allow the newbie to screw up while figuring it out. |
| 04:11.00 | prpplague | TomW: exactly |
| 04:11.18 | prpplague | brb, need more beeeeeer |
| 04:13.05 | TomW | hmm, some story on Ziff Davis about Nvidia taking a shine to Linux. Didn't I see another story someplace recently where Linux people were bitchin' about the poor quality of the stuff Nvidia has been giving them? |
| 04:13.40 | prpplague | TomW: ya they've started keepin the drivers uptodate |
| 04:13.53 | prpplague | TomW: still closed source kernel module |
| 04:13.54 | TomW | I think that I'll move that Ziff Davis bookmark from my magazine folder over to the entertainment folder. |
| 04:14.39 | prpplague | isn't ZD now part of IDG? |
| 04:15.49 | TomW | prolly |
| 04:15.54 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: I will take a closed source driver any day over no driver at all |
| 04:16.01 | prpplague | cpenguin_home: agreed |
| 04:16.35 | TomW | cpenguin_home: what's the velcro for? |
| 04:16.53 | prpplague | i was planning to get a booth at the up comming LinuxWorld in NY |
| 04:17.06 | cpenguin_home | TomW: use your imagination... :) |
| 04:17.08 | TomW | cool, maybe then I'll go. |
| 04:17.24 | prpplague | when i called to get the forms i needed, the guy got my email address and said he would mail them |
| 04:17.40 | TomW | prpplague: expensive? |
| 04:17.42 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: Are you going to send your closest developers a free plane ticket then? :-) |
| 04:17.42 | prpplague | (btw, linuxworld is run by IDG) |
| 04:18.08 | prpplague | well i got the forms, and it was sent via outlook express, and the forms were word docs |
| 04:18.15 | TomW | heh |
| 04:18.23 | TomW | now you got to decode them. |
| 04:18.47 | prpplague | of course i have openoffice, but i called the guy and asked if he understood that this was for a _linux_ show |
| 04:19.05 | prpplague | he said "sure i do, get with the rest of the world and load ms-office" |
| 04:19.07 | TomW | heh, and he said "so?" |
| 04:19.15 | prpplague | pissed me off something fierce |
| 04:19.20 | TomW | asshole |
| 04:19.33 | prpplague | i'll never got to another IDG event again |
| 04:20.42 | prpplague | TomW: this is the same asshole that spamed about 1800 ppl with a highlight of the linuxworld 2001 in SF with a powerpoint presentation |
| 04:20.57 | TomW | lol |
| 04:21.15 | prpplague | TomW: the "to:" line had 1800 ppl on it |
| 04:21.18 | TomW | bet that went over well. |
| 04:21.29 | prpplague | TomW: and the file was 23mb |
| 04:21.41 | prpplague | TomW: ya like a lead balooon |
| 04:21.51 | TomW | heh, wonder how many quota bounces he got back? |
| 04:22.38 | TomW | prolly scratched himself and wondered why they didn't all have HotMail accounts. |
| 04:22.41 | prpplague | TomW: not as many as return flame mail, iirc the entire IDG network was down the next morning |
| 04:22.52 | TomW | heh |
| 04:23.46 | prpplague | i just don't understand ppl not gearing their marketing to their target audience |
| 04:24.16 | Lethal | prpplague, screw LWE. OLS at least has intelligent submission policies. |
| 04:24.47 | prpplague | TomW: i'm gonna make a few voltage regulator boards this weekend from eagle |
| 04:25.02 | prpplague | Lethal: agreed, last year was my first trip to OLS, it rocks |
| 04:25.04 | TomW | switching? |
| 04:25.13 | prpplague | TomW: ya |
| 04:25.39 | prpplague | TomW: i'm using dip packages and gonna use a socket |
| 04:25.43 | TomW | you'll probably need some to power the IDE drive in your webpal. |
| 04:26.03 | prpplague | TomW: there is a 5v source on the power supply |
| 04:26.10 | TomW | I saw on some site that the webpal draws about 750ma on the 5 volt supply. |
| 04:26.16 | Lethal | prpplague, LWE is a glorified /. refugee gathering place. last years was horrible ;P |
| 04:26.42 | TomW | a 4200rpm notebook drive is rated for 600ma 2 |
| 04:26.43 | prpplague | Lethal: ya when i went to LWE sf it was a big dis-appointment |
| 04:26.48 | TomW | @ 5v |
| 04:26.53 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: I keep telling you, you want a Geode for that... :) |
| 04:27.04 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: unless you need a hand warmer, and then the ARM can help you with that |
| 04:27.08 | prpplague | TomW: ahh, so we are gonna have to soup uo the ps? |
| 04:27.17 | TomW | yeah, Geode, I like those moon rooks myself. |
| 04:27.30 | cpenguin_home | Everyone laughs, but thats because they don't know |
| 04:27.35 | TomW | prpplague: probably |
| 04:27.36 | prpplague | lol |
| 04:27.38 | Lethal | prpplague, the only redeeming aspect of LWE is parties afterwards. the Sistina one last year was cool ;P |
| 04:28.06 | prpplague | Lethal: ya well i really miss the linux expo sponsored by redhat in NC |
| 04:28.14 | prpplague | Lethal: that was a great expo |
| 04:28.39 | prpplague | TomW: ought to be a good learning process |
| 04:28.44 | prpplague | TomW: for me atleast |
| 04:28.55 | Lethal | ESC/ELEC were fun as well |
| 04:29.28 | Lethal | at least in SF |
| 04:30.19 | Lethal | ALS supposedly didn't suck as well, but I never got to one |
| 04:30.27 | prpplague | me either |
| 04:30.56 | prpplague | Lethal: you ever hear of the great kanasas city disaster? |
| 04:31.01 | Lethal | my only problem with ESC is everyone seems to have a common theme every year.. :P |
| 04:31.08 | Lethal | prpplague, nope |
| 04:31.41 | TomW | prpplague: I had a fellow programmer mention that his company was looking for a linux sysadmin... |
| 04:31.55 | prpplague | Lethal: it was aweful, some convention promoter who knew nothing of linux tried to put on a conference |
| 04:32.17 | prpplague | Lethal: it was nightmare, caldera, suse and redhat pulled out the day before the show |
| 04:32.36 | Lethal | ah, I think I recall hearing about that |
| 04:32.51 | prpplague | Lethal: in most of the linux geek circle its just refered to as the kanassas city disaster, lol |
| 04:33.18 | prpplague | TomW: yes? |
| 04:33.29 | TomW | lol, "the kanassas city disaster", good one! |
| 04:33.36 | Lethal | I was at an equally bad one in toronto a couple of years ago. about 5-6 vendors actually popped up.. though bob young and some idiot from oracle did talks, which were equally poorly attended. even the coffee sucked :P |
| 04:34.06 | prpplague | shit, if the coffee sucks, time to leave |
| 04:34.08 | TomW | prpplague: dunno, I turned it down at first, but still thinking about it. Do I want a 7am..6pm job again? |
| 04:34.39 | Lethal | prpplague, indeed. which is precisely what happened, oddly enough, being stuck in traffic for an hour afterwards was more thought provoking ;P |
| 04:34.46 | prpplague | TomW: hey if you need to $$, i some times wonder if i would be happer spending more time on my own projects |
| 04:35.08 | prpplague | Lethal: insights into kernel scheduling? |
| 04:35.12 | TomW | prpplague: $$ would be nice for a few years. |
| 04:35.44 | prpplague | TomW: ya but before long you start to feel like a dirty slut :) |
| 04:35.45 | Lethal | prpplague, depends on your application. I'm not a fan of general purpose scheduling where one algorithm fits all. |
| 04:36.22 | TomW | prpplague: mmmm, wonder if they will do it as a contract work and I can ssh to work? |
| 04:36.27 | TomW | prpplague: ;) |
| 04:36.41 | prpplague | Lethal: ohh i was just kidding, "being stuf in traffic for an hour afterwars was more thought proviking" = thinking about kernel process scheduling? |
| 04:37.12 | Lethal | prpplague, ah. no, I don't remember at all what the subject of thought was at the time. couldn't have been overly meaningful ;P |
| 04:38.32 | prpplague | TomW: well as long as you feel you enjoy the work or getting some education its a good thing, when you wake up one morning and say to your self " i really really don't want to go into work" , time to move on |
| 04:38.43 | TomW | prpplague: check this site out, talk about being clueless: http://lehighvalleycareers.com/index.asp |
| 04:39.37 | TomW | they want you to create an account just to see what they might have. No thanks, I look at dice.com and see how Linux jobs are doing in my area. |
| 04:39.42 | Lethal | speaking of scheduling.. sched_find_first_bit() needs to be rewritten for SH |
| 04:39.45 | Lethal | bah |
| 04:40.12 | TomW | Lethal: a little asm programming in your future, eh? |
| 04:40.20 | prpplague | Lethal: SH? hitachi processor? |
| 04:40.22 | Lethal | TomW, past, present, and future, more like it ;P |
| 04:40.28 | Lethal | prpplague, yeah |
| 04:40.53 | TomW | Lethal: yeah, IIRC, most of that bit stuff in the kernel is asm optimized. |
| 04:41.15 | prpplague | Lethal: ahh, i tinkered around with some SH stuff in preperation for the PLW device project, but it never got off the ground |
| 04:41.36 | TomW | I always end up scratchin' my head over the Input, Output, Local asm crap of the gcc. |
| 04:41.59 | prpplague | TomW: better than your ass |
| 04:42.06 | TomW | hehehheh |
| 04:42.09 | Lethal | prpplague, SH is a pretty cool processor.. SH-4 is definitely more fun then SH-3.. though presently I'm stuck in SH-2 hell ;P |
| 04:42.58 | Lethal | TomW, inline assembly in gcc is pretty simplistic. my only complaint with gcc/binutils is when they try to get intelligent with optimizations by reordering instructions. on mips and such it does okay on o32, but on n32 it breaks everything. |
| 04:43.15 | prpplague | Lethal: i can relate, my employer has me working on integrating some imaging functions into their DB, boring as hell |
| 04:43.23 | Lethal | they just have no concept of delay slots, its really annoying |
| 04:43.32 | TomW | prpplague: maybe I'll just put my resume in at my friend's place, take an interview and see how many single babes they have working there. |
| 04:43.46 | prpplague | TomW: sounds like a plan |
| 04:43.56 | Lethal | prpplague, *ick* |
| 04:44.07 | prpplague | TomW: go in, show them how good your are, then ask for a raise or your walking |
| 04:44.10 | TomW | prpplague: yeah, do something different for a diversion, goto an interview. |
| 04:44.23 | TomW | but, I only have a Grey suit, no Blue one. |
| 04:44.35 | Lethal | prpplague, well, one nice thing about SH-2 .. no MMU really simplifies the tlb flushing ;P |
| 04:44.35 | prpplague | TomW: grey is good |
| 04:44.38 | TomW | so, they cannot call me back for a followup. :D |
| 04:45.04 | prpplague | TomW: just pick up a nice "power" tie |
| 04:45.28 | prpplague | Lethal: i'm non-MMU challenged |
| 04:45.42 | Lethal | prpplague, first time for me ;P |
| 04:45.44 | TomW | Why don't I just wear a length of hemp around my neck. |
| 04:45.44 | TomW | ? |
| 04:45.49 | prpplague | Lethal: hows the lcd support on the sh series |
| 04:45.55 | Lethal | prpplague, also doing SMP on it ;P |
| 04:46.01 | prpplague | TomW: hey it works for woody harelson |
| 04:46.08 | TomW | prpplague: non-mmu stuff ain't that hard. uClinux. |
| 04:46.28 | prpplague | TomW: ya just haven't dove into that pool yet |
| 04:46.38 | TomW | prpplague: isn't he the guy the CA cops picked up driving around aimlessly in his auto? |
| 04:46.48 | Lethal | prpplague, there's nothing integrated into the SH directly. you can get companion chips from HIT that have integrated LCD controllers. |
| 04:47.04 | cpenguin_home | Man, there is nothing I hate more than libtool |
| 04:47.06 | cpenguin_home | nothing |
| 04:47.08 | prpplague | TomW: thats what i thought but its been a while |
| 04:47.16 | prpplague | oops that was for Lethal |
| 04:47.18 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, hack the bfd backend in binutils yet? ;P |
| 04:47.25 | prpplague | Lethal: the PLW used an epson controler |
| 04:47.30 | TomW | cpenguin_home: so, write a better one? |
| 04:47.39 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: eh? |
| 04:47.44 | prpplague | TomW: you know the guy that played "woody" on cheers |
| 04:47.49 | TomW | yeah |
| 04:47.55 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, I'll gauruntee you'd have that more then libtool ;P |
| 04:48.06 | Lethal | libtool sucks |
| 04:48.06 | cpenguin_home | TomW: I've got a better idea - non Linux users are SOL. |
| 04:48.08 | Lethal | but its no bfd |
| 04:48.09 | Lethal | ;P |
| 04:48.10 | prpplague | TomW: hey always goes on jay leno only wearing products made from hemp |
| 04:48.46 | TomW | prpplague: he makes more money than I do, he can do what he wants to. |
| 04:48.50 | prpplague | TomW: funny thing is that up until around 1910, more fabricts were made from hemp that cotton |
| 04:48.57 | Lethal | prpplague, 7751 also has PCI, so you can always just drop in something more standard ;P |
| 04:48.58 | prpplague | s/that/than |
| 04:49.04 | Lethal | SH-5 too |
| 04:49.07 | prpplague | Lethal: nice |
| 04:49.16 | TomW | prpplague: hmmm, guess if you get bored, you can smoke your clothing? |
| 04:49.17 | TomW | heh |
| 04:49.38 | bhima | hmm. interesting. my office fridge is old. still uses R12. |
| 04:49.42 | Lethal | my only complaint about it is that everything is VIPT |
| 04:49.48 | prpplague | TomW: almost no content of the chemicals that most ppl associate with marajuana |
| 04:49.56 | Lethal | so aliasing issues are abundant |
| 04:49.58 | prpplague | TomW: different bread really |
| 04:50.00 | Lethal | even on write-through |
| 04:50.11 | cpenguin_home | TomW: hemp is a very useful fiber |
| 04:50.17 | Lethal | but then again, at least its not ARM.. ;P |
| 04:50.21 | prpplague | TomW: kinda like the differences in mushrooms |
| 04:50.24 | cpenguin_home | TomW: the first paper money in the US was made of hemp |
| 04:50.44 | cpenguin_home | TomW: if you tried to smoke production quality hemp, it would just give you a ripping headache |
| 04:50.51 | cpenguin_home | s/production/commercial/ |
| 04:51.25 | prpplague | there is also a beer sold in california made from hemp |
| 04:51.31 | TomW | cpenguin_home: yeah, I know, once I tried that. Was very young at the time... |
| 04:51.32 | TomW | :/ |
| 04:52.10 | prpplague | http://www.ratebeer.com/ShowBeer.asp?BeerID=1658 |
| 04:52.32 | prpplague | TomW: nothing impressive on the beer side of things |
| 04:52.49 | Lethal | maybe ARM6 will have real caches ;P |
| 04:54.11 | Lethal | knowing intel.. probably not :P |
| 04:54.15 | as2 | Real caches? |
| 04:54.27 | Lethal | as2, yeah, as in not all VIVT :P |
| 04:54.37 | as2 | VIVT? |
| 04:54.48 | Lethal | as2, virtually indexed / virtually tagged |
| 04:55.07 | as2 | Ive no idea what that means. |
| 04:56.06 | Lethal | the only real win with VIVT is that you can store context info per-line. but at the same time, if you're running multi-threaded, you can end up having the entire dcache being one giant alias. |
| 04:56.19 | Lethal | and you have to flush all the time |
| 04:56.22 | prpplague | well i'm off to do some reading, 25/75........25% arm arm, 75% the two towers, :) |
| 04:56.32 | cpenguin_home | prpplague: my webpal is in town |
| 04:56.33 | prpplague | later guys |
| 04:56.33 | Lethal | and its pretty much impossible to be coherent |
| 04:56.34 | cpenguin_home | Arrived, SLC |
| 04:56.42 | prpplague | mine are in mesquite |
| 04:56.59 | prpplague | night all |
| 04:58.39 | as2 | Historically ARMs usually dont include the memory controller, maybe that has something to do with it. |
| 04:59.13 | Lethal | as2, its an architecture design. in the case of ARM, the L1 uses virtual addresses for indexes/tags. |
| 04:59.28 | as2 | But then they wernt intended to use premptive multitaking either. |
| 04:59.36 | as2 | Ahh, rather than physical addresses? |
| 04:59.40 | Lethal | yeah |
| 04:59.52 | Lethal | if your PIPT, you don't really have a whole lot to do |
| 05:00.13 | Lethal | if its VIPT, you have some aliasing issues to work out .. but you can have cache coherency and thus avoid a lot of useless flushing |
| 05:00.19 | as2 | That would be why. The MEMC has those, and its only recently ARM has had that on die. |
| 05:00.26 | Lethal | on VIVT you can't really be coherent |
| 05:00.40 | Lethal | so if you do multi-threaded, you can alias the entire cache |
| 05:00.51 | Lethal | which utterly kills any resemblance of what might be performance ;P |
| 05:01.02 | as2 | That rather depends if you context switch. |
| 05:01.06 | Lethal | right |
| 05:01.20 | as2 | Which it was never intended for. |
| 05:01.35 | Lethal | yeah, but people are still trying to use it as such |
| 05:01.37 | cpenguin_home | heh - jelly belly makes champagne flavored jelly beans |
| 05:02.09 | Lethal | like those morons who started shipping an XScale workstation |
| 05:02.09 | as2 | If your trying to use methods the CPU was never designed for, then you should expect loss of performance. |
| 05:02.16 | Lethal | obviously |
| 05:02.40 | cpenguin_home | network go buhbye for 3 seconds |
| 05:02.40 | as2 | RISCOS was a fabulous OS. |
| 05:03.41 | Lethal | I don't have anything against arm really, but xscale needs work. the early revs were broken beyond belief. |
| 05:04.07 | Lethal | when I got my first dev board from intel, the errata exceeded the users manual in size :/ |
| 05:04.09 | as2 | Ive never heard of xscale. |
| 05:04.39 | Lethal | xscale is intel's successor to StrongARM. ARM 5 derived. |
| 05:04.52 | as2 | Interesting. |
| 05:04.59 | Lethal | utterly and hopelessly broken. just recently started becoming useable. |
| 05:05.07 | as2 | Did intels own brand low power cpu die? |
| 05:05.44 | Lethal | I'm not sure what the other ARMs run at, as far as power consumption |
| 05:05.53 | Lethal | StrongARM and XScale aren't too impressive on that front though |
| 05:06.14 | as2 | Under a watt for 200MHz IIRC. |
| 05:06.18 | Lethal | they're relatively piggy, at least in comparison to SH and a good chunk of non-toshiba MIPS |
| 05:06.40 | as2 | Which considering how old the CPU is is pretty damn good. |
| 05:06.47 | Lethal | I have a 350MHz MIPS that's at 250mW |
| 05:06.57 | Lethal | with the 20kc, they're aiming for GHz < 1 watt |
| 05:07.15 | as2 | Yes, but they are in much later fab processes. |
| 05:07.51 | as2 | Strongarm must be 6 years old. |
| 05:07.58 | Lethal | yeah |
| 05:08.13 | TomW | cpenguin_home: radio shack |
| 05:08.21 | Lethal | XScale isn't much better then StrongARM |
| 05:08.28 | Lethal | at least not from a power consumption stand point |
| 05:08.33 | Lethal | I think it uses a little less |
| 05:08.49 | Lethal | but with all the performance hits you take, who cares ;P |
| 05:08.52 | TomW | Lethal: how far along is the SH support under Linux? |
| 05:08.55 | as2 | If intel is doing it, its a lost cause. |
| 05:09.40 | cpenguin_home | TomW: its pretty far along, from what I hear. Montavista has all the usual stuff ported alredy |
| 05:09.55 | Lethal | TomW, reasonably well along. currently does SH-3/4 on a good variety of boards. I just recently pushed in some stuff for caches that aren't direct-mapped, so that gets the new sh-4 stuff in. and I'm presently hacking in the mmuless and smp backends in place for it.. after which I have 64-bit stuff to drag in for the port ;P |
| 05:10.45 | TomW | Lethal: yeah, the only thing about the mmu-less stuff is the memory fragmentation problem. |
| 05:11.06 | Lethal | TomW, 2.5 has uclinux merged already, so its mostly a non-issue outside of arch-specific hooks. |
| 05:11.14 | TomW | Lethal: unless DavidM or Gerg did some work on that lately. |
| 05:11.18 | as2 | Actually, Lethal, do you have a good mips dissasembler? |
| 05:11.44 | Lethal | as2, not really. mips/mipsel-linux-objdump is what I typically use. green hills has some okay stuff too. |
| 05:12.07 | as2 | Ive been using IDA, but its broken. |
| 05:12.48 | as2 | Correcting its mistakes has become too time consuming. |
| 05:13.10 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, we had basic solution engine stuff working at MV when I was there and working on it, and I haven't seen anything else from jeremy since :P |
| 05:14.50 | as2 | Do you do much low level mips? |
| 05:15.49 | as2 | I'm currently having a hard time liberating a MIPS based box from part of its native software. |
| 05:16.01 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: don't tell me, they fired my company when my boss was hanging out in their competitors booth at Comdex a few years ago... :) |
| 05:16.11 | TomW | Lethal: yeah, except that running 2.5 is an issue in and of itself. :/ |
| 05:16.56 | TomW | later guys, time to become a pumpkin. |
| 05:16.58 | *** part/#elinux TomW (tom@147seg-pc-1624-14.msns.str.ptd.net) |
| 05:21.28 | *** part/#elinux GPSFan (~kenm@65.114.238.130) |
| 05:21.47 | Lethal | as2, software yes, hardware no ;P |
| 05:22.26 | as2 | At the moment any help would be a massive improvement. |
| 05:22.39 | Lethal | whats the processor/board and issue? |
| 05:23.43 | as2 | VR4111, Yes and Yes in that order. |
| 05:23.52 | Lethal | ah, vr4111 is fun |
| 05:24.01 | as2 | You know it? |
| 05:24.05 | Lethal | no where near as fucked as 4122 and 4131 |
| 05:24.06 | Lethal | yeah |
| 05:24.20 | as2 | Cool. |
| 05:24.22 | Lethal | I did the vr4131 port for nec |
| 05:25.10 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: who did you work with at NEC? Know a guy named Fred Finster? |
| 05:25.14 | as2 | Very cool. NEC wont give me any info for the chip that CPU is part of. I'm starting to really not like NEC. |
| 05:25.36 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, yeah, I know him. grant brians was my primary contact though. |
| 05:25.57 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, I still have their internal kernel tree sitting around somewhere, utterly horrible mess ;P |
| 05:25.59 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: we made a Microwindows demo for the Harrier reference platform |
| 05:26.11 | Lethal | ah |
| 05:26.15 | Lethal | harrier isn't bad |
| 05:26.28 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: it was a nightmare board - the bootloader alone will drive you insane |
| 05:26.33 | Lethal | as2, what docs do you need? |
| 05:26.54 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, what loader did you have on it? all my shit I get from NEC has PMON on it. |
| 05:27.13 | as2 | In a perfect world, anything regrading 'EMMA', the upd61030. |
| 05:27.22 | Lethal | ah |
| 05:27.26 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: we had some Windows CE loader... It was 2 years ago, so I don't remember the details, but I do remember it was touchy at best to use |
| 05:27.37 | Lethal | EMMA stuff isn't easy to get at, I have a friend who did all the linux stuff for it |
| 05:27.47 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: if it helps as a reference, I thought the original Ipaq bootloader was much easier to use... :-) |
| 05:27.59 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, cyace? or something official? ;P |
| 05:28.14 | as2 | All done under nondisclosure agreements? |
| 05:28.16 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: cyace |
| 05:28.19 | Lethal | as2, yeah |
| 05:28.38 | Lethal | as2, I have all the vr41xx and vrc41xx docs though, if you need any of those ;P |
| 05:29.02 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, cyace isn't too painful ;P |
| 05:29.12 | as2 | They wont even consider me, told me they have to evaluate my project to determine if its suitable, and under my circumstances I wouldnt qualify. Freindly people. |
| 05:29.46 | Lethal | as2, sounds typical. feasibility is directly proportional to the number of tens of thousands of units you wish to purchase ;P |
| 05:30.02 | as2 | I think you hit the nail on the head. |
| 05:30.12 | as2 | I have the VR4111 datasheet from the net, public info only. |
| 05:30.30 | Lethal | vr4111 isn't too much of an issue |
| 05:30.36 | as2 | I have the MIPS programmers docs, but there seems to be errors. |
| 05:30.45 | Lethal | vr4122 and vr4131 there's a lot of internal errata stuff to watch out for that the docs don't even hint at |
| 05:30.53 | Lethal | as far as fucked caches and such go |
| 05:31.05 | as2 | Interesting. |
| 05:31.18 | as2 | Do you happen to know anything about debugging by JTAG? |
| 05:31.25 | Lethal | yeah |
| 05:31.33 | Lethal | MIPS doesn't use JTAG typically though, it uses EJTAG instead ;P |
| 05:31.49 | as2 | Yeah, but NEC dont seem to like EJTAG. |
| 05:32.05 | as2 | This system isnt conforming to the mips EJTAG spec. |
| 05:32.05 | Lethal | no, but toshiba does ;P |
| 05:32.18 | Lethal | its about the only thing toshiba likes to conform with |
| 05:32.31 | Lethal | crazy fuckers are trying to do smp r3k |
| 05:32.36 | as2 | What are toshiba making? |
| 05:32.50 | Lethal | they have a pretty wide family of fucked processors |
| 05:32.57 | as2 | Haha. |
| 05:33.06 | as2 | Damning with faint praise. |
| 05:33.13 | Lethal | the tx39/tx49 are the entry level. r5900/tx79 is where shit gets weirder. |
| 05:33.19 | Lethal | tx39 is pretty cool |
| 05:33.25 | Lethal | tx49 I can't think of one good thing to say about it |
| 05:33.30 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: hardly - that processor is a beast |
| 05:33.39 | Lethal | my tx49 reference board attempted to set fire to my desk |
| 05:33.46 | cpenguin_home | THe 3912 to be exact |
| 05:34.04 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, still entry level in comparison to tx49/tx79 ;P |
| 05:34.21 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: its an annoying processor, whatever its level |
| 05:34.24 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, its just stock r3k + ll/sc. which is why they're trying to push it as an SMP solution ;P |
| 05:34.31 | as2 | Do you happen to know how the MIPS16 version of jalx is encoded, the doc I got from mips.com seems to be in error. |
| 05:34.46 | Lethal | cpenguin_home, of course. in our kernel at work I forcibly set CONFIG_FUCKED_CACHES if CONFIG_TOSHIBA_BOARDS is set. |
| 05:35.12 | Lethal | as2, no idea about mips16. never touched the stuff. |
| 05:35.12 | cpenguin_home | Lethal: cursing is always an option in that situation |
| 05:35.18 | as2 | Oh, that reminds me, Where is the bootstrap on VR4111's? |
| 05:35.54 | Lethal | as2, you mean the entry point? |
| 05:36.02 | Lethal | as2, that's consistent across mips |
| 05:36.05 | as2 | I normally expect a CPU to look a few bytes from the top of its address space to find the bootstrap pointer.... But in this system its nowhere neer the actual bootcode. |
| 05:37.10 | as2 | What should it be? And is everything normally screwed by address mapping? |
| 05:37.12 | Lethal | generally you'll always start at bfc00000. some people push it a bit higher then others. EJTAG entry for example is usually bfc00480 |
| 05:37.49 | as2 | Hmmmm. |
| 05:37.58 | Lethal | which incidentally is also your reset vector |
| 05:38.10 | as2 | Interesting. |
| 05:38.49 | as2 | The memory in this system seems to be from 9fc00000 to 9fdFFFFF, does that make any sense? |
| 05:39.01 | Lethal | that seems broken |
| 05:39.45 | as2 | Hmm. |
| 05:40.32 | as2 | I have a lot of what seem to be direct address references to 9fcxxxxx, and they corrispond to the start of text in the firmware. |
| 05:40.42 | cpenguin_home | lots of fun stuff to do |
| 05:40.53 | as2 | L8r cp. |
| 05:40.54 | Lethal | that definitely looks off, but it could be the case for your board |
| 05:41.32 | as2 | Is it possible it boots at bfc and then alters its memory to 9fc? |
| 05:41.58 | as2 | Hmm, on the other hand it may not matter. |
| 05:42.15 | as2 | This CPU is missing a lot of address lines. |
| 05:42.32 | Lethal | well, if its 9fcxxxxx then you're still under KSEG0 |
| 05:42.41 | Lethal | which is a rather odd place to start out |
| 05:43.06 | as2 | Ok, I have no idea what that means. Whats kseg0? |
| 05:43.13 | Lethal | unless you have a full blown loader that starts out in KSEG1, sets up the caches and such, and then hops to KSEG0 |
| 05:43.25 | Lethal | KSEG0 is your cached kernel segment. KSEG1 is uncached. |
| 05:44.06 | as2 | This only has 2M of flash operating at any one time, Id expect everything to be cached. |
| 05:44.15 | Lethal | usually when you're bringing up a MIPS, you run out of KSEG1 so you can deal with setting up things like sp/gp and the caches .. then after doing an initial flush switching over to KSEG0 and getting a performance boost. |
| 05:44.29 | as2 | Ohhhhh. |
| 05:44.29 | Lethal | you'll be mapped in both at once, but its wherever you do the access that determines if its cached or not |
| 05:44.49 | as2 | This wont be bootloader code then. This will be application code. |
| 05:45.04 | as2 | Would this make sense for application code? |
| 05:45.11 | Lethal | application as far as a kernel, or some idiot userspace thing? |
| 05:45.56 | Lethal | well, if you already have a loader in place, then it makes sense to be running in KSEG0, yes. |
| 05:46.06 | as2 | Let me level with you about the whole problem. |
| 05:46.33 | as2 | This is a satellite box a little similar to a directivo. |
| 05:46.56 | as2 | But rather than run linux, it runs some gowaweful closed OS. |
| 05:47.50 | as2 | I want to modify it to remove some of the software 'features' that are currently making life hell for me atm. |
| 05:49.42 | as2 | I spent time hacking a different box, and got a hang of the software, but this box uses a completely different CPU to the old ones (They used ST20/Transputer CPUS) so I'm having to relearn everything from scratch. |
| 05:50.12 | as2 | Any general suggestions? |
| 05:51.07 | as2 | The main goal is to modify the box so I can transfer recorded MPEG to a PC. |
| 05:51.22 | Lethal | I think I'm missing what you want to do? you have firmware loaded at 9fcxxxxx and you want to load your own stuff over top of it? |
| 05:51.58 | as2 | I'm in the 'I dont have a clue how anything works' stage currently. |
| 05:52.37 | as2 | I'm after understanding how parts of the firmware work before I worry about altering anything. |
| 05:52.41 | Lethal | step 1: run to a book store and pick up see mips run ;P |
| 05:52.57 | as2 | Ok. |
| 05:53.03 | Lethal | definitely a necessity for anyone wanting to do anything with mips |
| 05:53.45 | Lethal | ST20 -- that SH-2? |
| 05:53.49 | as2 | I'm farmiliar with a few asm syntaxes, I dont think it will take me more than 2 or 3 months to be able to read the asm reasonably well. |
| 05:54.00 | as2 | ST20 is insane. |
| 05:54.25 | Lethal | mips assembly is wonderfully clean and easy to read/write |
| 05:54.31 | Lethal | alpha assembly is almost identical |
| 05:54.31 | as2 | IT has 3 32bit registers, and they are arranged as a stack. |
| 05:54.44 | Lethal | ah, thats not SH-2 thing. sounds fucked. |
| 05:55.07 | as2 | Be afraid of ST20, avoid unless you want to take a really bad trip. |
| 05:55.22 | Lethal | I think the bad trip is likely what induced it in the first place ;P |
| 05:55.37 | as2 | Claims to be 'RISC' has 8 bit instructions. |
| 05:55.50 | as2 | 4 bits opcode, 4 bits data. |
| 05:56.12 | as2 | And subinstructions are build on top with extensions. |
| 05:56.48 | as2 | Its very very weird. |
| 05:57.05 | Lethal | sounds.. pretty damned useless |
| 05:57.06 | Lethal | :P |
| 05:57.25 | as2 | Ever heard of transputers? |
| 05:57.30 | Lethal | not that I recall |
| 05:57.42 | as2 | Ahh, big buzz word in the mid 90's. |
| 05:58.16 | as2 | Each transputer has 4 20Mbit links, and you wire them together for vast multi CPU processing. |
| 05:58.31 | as2 | Ever heard of OCCAM? |
| 05:59.48 | as2 | I'll take that as a no. Anyway, it was a pretty radical idea at the time, and INMOS was eaten by STM, and the ST20 is basically the embedded version of a transputer. |
| 05:59.59 | Lethal | occam's razor, sure, occam, no ;P |
| 06:00.12 | Lethal | ah |
| 06:00.21 | Lethal | interesting |
| 06:01.05 | as2 | Currently this box though is eating HDs. |
| 06:01.13 | Lethal | ST isn't too creative with their naming conventions |
| 06:01.18 | Lethal | ST40 is SH4 and ST50 is SH5 |
| 06:01.38 | as2 | I cant backup any of the data, so when Ive recorded stuff I dont want to delete I have to buy a new HD. |
| 06:02.17 | as2 | If I could store to a PC, I could backup to CDR or DVDR when I get one. |
| 06:02.59 | as2 | I know this can be done with tivos, but this is the next generation of console, and theyve learned all the security holes they needed to close. |
| 06:05.16 | Lethal | tivo wasn't overly smart |
| 06:05.18 | *** join/#elinux as_ (as@modem-450.duckdive.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 06:05.26 | as_ | Re. |
| 06:05.30 | Lethal | the ide unlocking was a bit of a pain on them tho |
| 06:05.38 | Lethal | at least on the later ones that were locked |
| 06:05.40 | Lethal | early ones weren't |
| 06:05.41 | as_ | On tivos? |
| 06:05.44 | Lethal | yeah |
| 06:06.03 | Lethal | thankfully they also dumped that god-awful ppc garbage for a mips solution ;P |
| 06:06.03 | as_ | I'm in the UK, so I dont know a lot about tivos. |
| 06:06.17 | as_ | Interesting, what MIPS? |
| 06:06.31 | Lethal | don't recall, some r5k derived thing. |
| 06:06.57 | as_ | The directivos Ive seen pictures of have ST20s in them as well. |
| 06:07.12 | as_ | sti55xx chips. |
| 06:07.47 | as_ | What should I be looking out for in a bootloader? |
| 06:08.24 | Lethal | in terms of .. ? |
| 06:09.02 | as_ | Usual methods, structures.... |
| 06:09.38 | as_ | How are jumptables normally done? |
| 06:09.45 | Lethal | you want to write a loader? |
| 06:10.21 | Lethal | actually, lets continue this discussion tomorrow. I should get to sleep. |
| 06:10.29 | as_ | Ok. |
| 06:10.37 | as_ | I want to understand this loader. |
| 06:11.04 | as_ | I will look for it. |
| 06:11.10 | Lethal | its the closest thing to a mips bible you'll find ;P |
| 06:11.42 | Lethal | anyways, I'm out. later. |
| 06:11.50 | as_ | I'm still scrabbling around atm, hopefully when part of this starts to make sense I'll calm down. |
| 06:11.54 | as_ | Ok, L8r. |
| 08:43.11 | BZFlag | looks like yopy now includes an open source mmc driver as well as the hh tree. |
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| 08:52.19 | andersee | BZFlag: is an mmc driver different from the ide CF driver? |
| 10:26.02 | BZFlag | yes. |
| 10:26.09 | BZFlag | mmc is a serial device. |
| 10:26.26 | BZFlag | sd can be a a nibble device |
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| 15:26.02 | CosmicPenguin | morning |
| 15:26.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lo |
| 15:26.45 | sorphin | ya know |
| 15:26.49 | *** mode/#eLinux [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 15:26.53 | sorphin | i knew today was gonna suck as soon as i woke up |
| 15:27.23 | prpplague | sorphin: ya well i knew why my son woke up a 4 am crying and won't go back to sleep |
| 15:36.37 | sorphin | whys that? |
| 15:37.40 | prpplague | sorphin: had a bad dream |
| 15:41.51 | *** mode/#eLinux [+o kergoth] by ChanServ |
| 15:42.05 | kergoth | mornin |
| 15:43.23 | CosmicPenguin | Whats the good word? |
| 15:43.48 | CosmicPenguin | I'm going out of town tommorrow, that means I might not get my WebPal until Monday... :( |
| 15:44.31 | CosmicPenguin | And for us hardware-impared folks, whats the word on the TTL to RS232 converters? |
| 15:50.33 | sorphin | prpplague: heh, i live a bad dream :P |
| 15:52.05 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: why out of town? |
| 15:53.36 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: we are going to surprise my fiance's aunt on her birthday |
| 15:53.36 | sorphin | ah |
| 15:53.36 | CosmicPenguin | and when I say we, I mean her whole damn family, some 20 people or so |
| 15:53.39 | sorphin | when did your fiance tell you about this? |
| 15:53.47 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: months ago, why? |
| 15:54.00 | sorphin | you seemed like it caught you off guard |
| 15:54.46 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: no, its just that UPS sucks, and I doubt I'll make it to the office tommrrow, so I'll have to call and have them hold it till Monday |
| 15:55.17 | *** join/#elinux BZFlag (~timr@rikers.org) |
| 15:55.19 | *** mode/#eLinux [+o BZFlag] by ChanServ |
| 15:55.19 | CosmicPenguin | Stupid company, why couldn't they bother to have a shipping address? |
| 15:55.28 | kergoth | BZFlag: hey tim |
| 15:57.29 | *** join/#elinux TomW (tom@147seg-pc-1624-14.msns.str.ptd.net) |
| 16:09.35 | sorphin | allo mr flag *grin* |
| 16:16.33 | prpplague | BZFlag: bum, we expect individual "heys" :) |
| 16:18.30 | kergoth | BZFlag: much better :P |
| 16:18.39 | scanline | morning |
| 16:19.02 | kergoth | hey scanline |
| 16:19.35 | scanline | hi kergoth |
| 16:21.39 | prpplague | BZFlag: much better, that'll get you a round of beer at OLS :) |
| 16:21.40 | *** join/#elinux sieve (~sieve@12.148.134.9) |
| 16:23.34 | *** join/#elinux GPSFan (~kenm@65.114.238.130) |
| 16:23.44 | prpplague | btw, everyone, sieve is a co-worker here in the POS hell |
| 16:24.50 | kergoth | hey sieve |
| 16:25.00 | sieve | dammit, prpplague... Why can't you just let me lurk? |
| 16:25.07 | sieve | hello kergoth |
| 16:26.47 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: you owe so many people beer.... Someday we're all going to collect, you know... :) |
| 16:28.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: attend OLS and i will, BZFlag can vouch i pay up |
| 16:29.39 | sorphin | prpplague: riiight |
| 16:29.52 | sorphin | none of that guiness shit tho ;) |
| 16:32.48 | prpplague | sorphin: you have whatever you want, "the cellar" has over 200 beers available |
| 16:36.22 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: When is OLS? |
| 16:36.28 | prpplague | ibot: ols |
| 16:36.32 | | ols is, like, Ottawa Linux Symposium or http://www.linuxsymposium.org/2003/ |
| 16:36.43 | prpplague | july 23-26th iirc |
| 16:37.35 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I should be there - I'll have to pay my own way, but thats the way it goes, I guess |
| 16:38.26 | sorphin | heh |
| 16:38.30 | CosmicPenguin | Send CosmicPenguin to OLS so he can drink lots of beer |
| 16:38.35 | sorphin | since i know htis far in advance |
| 16:38.39 | sorphin | i might show up ;p |
| 16:39.21 | sorphin | heh |
| 16:39.23 | sorphin | Tim O'Reilly Says Piracy is Progressive Taxation |
| 16:39.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ya well the weekend before OLS last years was the Ottawa internation beer festival :) |
| 16:40.45 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: I'll be the one wearing the Microwindows t-shirt |
| 16:40.55 | sorphin | i bet |
| 16:41.18 | scanline | hehe |
| 16:41.32 | CosmicPenguin | Maybe I can get National Semicondutor to send me some Geode swag... :) |
| 16:41.32 | sorphin | and prpplague will be the one drunk before we get there ;) |
| 16:41.50 | prpplague | scanline: the ones that say "picogui, its not just another salsa!" |
| 16:42.09 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: lol |
| 16:43.39 | scanline | hehe |
| 16:43.46 | scanline | well, time for a nap |
| 16:43.49 | *** join/#elinux sorphin (sorphin@adsl-64-218-79-41.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) |
| 16:43.57 | sorphin | gee.. that as fun |
| 16:43.58 | sorphin | was |
| 16:44.35 | CosmicPenguin | Hmm..... I want to propose a Microwindows presentation - I know I could do a better job than Greg |
| 16:44.43 | CosmicPenguin | scanline: wanna do a debate at OLS? :-) |
| 16:47.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that sound fun |
| 16:47.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: however i'd be more interest in hearing about intelligent widget sets |
| 16:48.56 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: like scriptable GUIs? |
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| 16:51.50 | sorphin | ack |
| 16:51.58 | sorphin | an IBM employee ;) |
| 16:52.28 | sorphin | prpplague: you brining more POS people in? ;) |
| 16:52.35 | sorphin | bringing |
| 16:53.27 | prpplague | ashu: ha, which building are you in? |
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| 16:54.55 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: don't knock the POSes man, they're a money maker |
| 16:55.14 | sorphin | no |
| 16:55.17 | sorphin | a money taker ;) |
| 16:55.49 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: what do you think - is the POS market a lucritive one? |
| 16:56.09 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: har, har |
| 16:56.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: oh hell ya |
| 16:56.37 | sorphin | prpplague POS enterprises ;p |
| 16:56.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: where else can you take a group of componets that normally would cost around $400 and change the name fro pc to pos and then sell it for $4000 |
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| 16:58.09 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: other than home media servers? :-) |
| 17:00.48 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: good point |
| 17:02.41 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: you have some of those AML M7100 units on site, right? |
| 17:02.54 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: how easy is it to swap out the kernel with a home brew? |
| 17:03.30 | *** join/#elinux levi (~levi@ash.lnxi.com) |
| 17:05.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: its a pretty standard implementation |
| 17:05.12 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you could put blob on it easy |
| 17:05.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we are testing with the pre-load stuff right now |
| 17:05.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: however i plan on getting a home brew loaded later |
| 17:05.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i want to loan one to scanline to get picogui running on it |
| 17:06.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the only special stuff is the lcd resolution 160x160 and the barcode scanner interface |
| 17:07.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the core of the unit is a sim board similiar to the trizeps |
| 17:08.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the lcd is standard off-the-shelf, the scanner enginer is also, the battery is the type used in alot of camcorders special the sony |
| 17:09.11 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: how much storage? |
| 17:09.19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i have had problems getting source from AML |
| 17:10.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: 16mb ram/ 4 flash |
| 17:10.30 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: they are using compressed ramdisk |
| 17:10.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: $1800 is a little expensive though |
| 17:12.20 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: high margins for a low selling device |
| 17:12.31 | CosmicPenguin | How many colors on the LCD? Probably 4? |
| 17:12.43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ya well, we buy it for $1800 and sell it $3200 |
| 17:13.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we are shipping 22 tomorrow |
| 17:13.29 | prpplague | our sales ppl are evil |
| 17:13.46 | prpplague | i feel like i need to take a shower after dealing with them |
| 17:13.56 | prpplague | wash off the slim |
| 17:14.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you ever use hylafax? |
| 17:14.40 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: nope - details? |
| 17:14.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: fax application for linux, it has a flag where you can forward faxes as an email |
| 17:15.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: our sales ppl charge $10k to turn on the flag |
| 17:16.18 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: line item sale "Custom program for fax-2-email services" |
| 17:16.22 | prpplague | s/sale/says |
| 17:16.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: can you believe that? |
| 17:17.56 | prpplague | ashu: i didn't know they had any embedded teams in austin.... |
| 17:20.28 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: nuts |
| 17:21.08 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I wonder what it feels like to sell your souls like that |
| 17:21.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ya well, our customers seem to like having us "manage" everything |
| 17:22.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: its strange, but hey, as long as they keep signing my check and sponsoring open source dev |
| 17:22.23 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: thats the spirit... :) |
| 17:52.47 | prpplague | neeeeed webpal |
| 17:53.37 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: mine is officially in UPS limbo by now |
| 17:53.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: as is mine |
| 17:53.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: its been sitting in mequite for 2 days |
| 17:54.54 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: mine is on the truck, but I have to go home for a few seconds right now, and I'll bet you $5 that there a "sorry we missed you" message on the door |
| 17:55.41 | prpplague | lol |
| 18:10.28 | Russ|werk | ouch, ie+outlook png code excecution vulnerability |
| 18:10.35 | Russ|werk | that'll be a new email virus |
| 18:31.36 | Morn | png code ? |
| 18:31.42 | Morn | how do you execute a png image? |
| 18:32.40 | sorphin | last i looked |
| 18:32.44 | sorphin | IE can't even handle a png |
| 18:33.09 | Morn | if you load apples quicktime it can |
| 18:33.33 | TomW | png is an executable format?! |
| 18:33.33 | sorphin | i meant natively |
| 18:33.36 | sorphin | no |
| 18:33.49 | sorphin | i dunno what russ is on about |
| 18:34.27 | Russ|werk | sorphin: yes it can, just not well |
| 18:34.35 | Russ|werk | there is a heap overwrite thing |
| 18:34.52 | Russ|werk | so put executable code in your png, overwrite the heap, and then your code gets run |
| 18:35.05 | TomW | probably not an exection vulnerability per se, but a stack / buffer exploit by sending IE an improperly formatted PNG? |
| 18:35.14 | Russ|werk | yes |
| 18:35.18 | sorphin | ah |
| 18:35.25 | sorphin | won't affect me anyways |
| 18:35.36 | TomW | Russ|werk: figures, why does that _not_ surprise me? |
| 18:35.41 | Russ|werk | their deflate implementation that they use for png is b0rked |
| 18:35.50 | TomW | :D |
| 18:36.15 | Russ|werk | the vunerable list starts with 'Internet Explorer 4.0' |
| 18:37.30 | sorphin | heh |
| 18:37.57 | sorphin | "Obviously Slashdot's parent's parent runs SourceForge, so insert whatever mental disclaimer and conspiracy theory you want here." who fscking cares? he does that every story that even remotely ties to /.'s "parent" company.. big deal |
| 18:47.13 | CosmicPenguin | There was indeed a "sorry we missed you" message, but apparently they left it with the neighbors |
| 18:47.34 | sorphin | already? cool |
| 18:48.00 | sorphin | mine hasn't even updated tracking since it left california |
| 18:48.21 | CosmicPenguin | sorphin: you know that if they didn't, everyone would jump down their throats |
| 18:48.30 | CosmicPenguin | Slashdotters are such a picky group |
| 18:48.51 | sorphin | only the trolls (granted that's 99% of the /. population |
| 18:52.27 | CosmicPenguin | Heh.... the preamble on that PNG advisory is hilarious |
| 18:52.52 | *** join/#elinux andersee (~andersen@codepoet.org) |
| 18:52.52 | *** mode/#eLinux [+o andersee] by ChanServ |
| 18:53.37 | CosmicPenguin | http://online.securityfocus.com/archive/1/303127 |
| 18:53.57 | CosmicPenguin | They probably took more time writing that then Microsoft did writing the .PNG code... :) |
| 18:59.59 | Russ|werk | how long was it between august and ie+sp1? |
| 19:03.58 | CosmicPenguin | A while |
| 19:04.05 | CosmicPenguin | Did SP1 come out in October? |
| 19:22.58 | *** join/#elinux GPSFan (~kenm@65.114.238.130) |
| 19:31.44 | prpplague | ok, i need to tele-comute so i can drink beer while i deal with these (l)users |
| 19:34.44 | CosmicPenguin | Not that any of us drink while on duty of course |
| 19:38.46 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: suuuuuuuuuuuure |
| 19:38.53 | *** join/#elinux martin_ (~martin@dhcp93102133.columbus.rr.com) |
| 19:39.45 | CosmicPenguin | Have you guys seen Froogle? |
| 19:39.48 | CosmicPenguin | http://froogle.google.com/froogle |
| 19:40.00 | CosmicPenguin | Those crazy Google guys are at it again |
| 19:40.35 | CosmicPenguin | http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=TinyTerm&btnG=Froogle+Search |
| 19:41.02 | sorphin | the Froogle gourmet? :P |
| 19:45.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Tiny+Turd&btnG=Froogle+Search |
| 19:47.36 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: did you read the 6th entry down on that search? |
| 19:52.35 | Russ|werk | http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=sa1100&btnG=Froogle+Search |
| 19:52.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: no, but i did now |
| 19:53.06 | prpplague | hey feel like a train of bawdy boxcars barrelling out of a turd tunnel |
| 19:53.22 | Russ|werk | prpplague: I hate to be a pest, but you wouldn't happen to have a shipping number, do you? |
| 19:53.35 | file | Russ|werk: you get used to being one |
| 19:54.00 | prpplague | Russ|werk: no, but i'll head down in a sec |
| 19:54.14 | BZFlag | http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=TuxScreen&btnG=Froogle+Search <- aw... ;-) |
| 19:55.13 | BZFlag | http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=webpal works though. ;-) |
| 19:58.05 | CosmicPenguin | Zaurus does ok too |
| 19:59.08 | sorphin | ok, kergothy gave me his opinion what about you 2? (on the zaurus) |
| 19:59.19 | Russ|werk | http://www.google.com/search?q=froogle <- see: news |
| 20:01.42 | CosmicPenguin | Thats a really useful utility |
| 20:06.40 | BZFlag | froggle rox! |
| 20:10.24 | sorphin | BZFlag: *points at his zaurus comment* ;) |
| 20:10.30 | sorphin | cuz i know you got one, you have everything ;) |
| 20:13.13 | BZFlag | sorphin: which comment? |
| 20:13.50 | sorphin | BZFlag: your opinion of it |
| 20:14.02 | sorphin | looking at maybe picking one up |
| 20:14.09 | prpplague | kergoth: just got off the phone with deb |
| 20:14.24 | kergoth | prpplague: ah, and? |
| 20:14.26 | prpplague | kergoth: looks like they are gonna quote a price on a print server |
| 20:14.47 | prpplague | kergoth: 4meg flash 8megs ram with sdk kit |
| 20:15.55 | kergoth | prpplague: nice |
| 20:16.01 | sorphin | prpplague: whats this about now ? :P |
| 20:16.43 | CosmicPenguin | heh - heres a fun one from the Google Labs: http://labs.google.com/cgi-bin/webquotes?num_quotes=3&q=Microwindows&btnG=Google+WebQuotes+Search&show_titles=1&bold_links=1 |
| 20:16.49 | prpplague | kergoth: any idea what processor the digione embedded product is based on? |
| 20:17.41 | prpplague | lol |
| 20:19.12 | prpplague | sorphin: we are pressuring our long time vendor digi into producing a print server that is unix/linux friendly |
| 20:19.22 | sorphin | ah |
| 20:19.26 | prpplague | sorphin: possible even running linux |
| 20:19.32 | sorphin | why would you wanna buy anything from digi? they suck ;) |
| 20:19.46 | prpplague | sorphin: well, they are willing, and no one else is |
| 20:20.12 | prpplague | sorphin: if digi doesn't do it, we are going to go ahead with our own design |
| 20:20.46 | sorphin | better w/ your own design ;) |
| 20:21.58 | prpplague | sorphin: ya well, we don't have the resources for keeping a good track of quality control |
| 20:22.15 | prpplague | sorphin: we really don't want to design hardware, unless we have to |
| 20:22.34 | Lethal | canon was working on one |
| 20:23.00 | Lethal | or at least they were the last time I talked to them |
| 20:23.39 | prpplague | Lethal: oh ya? we approached them about a year ago, and they laughed at us |
| 20:23.58 | Lethal | this was a couple of months ago |
| 20:24.10 | prpplague | Lethal: i tried to explain using lynx or links to configure a printserver and they were total baffeled |
| 20:24.23 | Lethal | they were using a vr4131 and were trying to get linux going on it, but were utterly clueless about its cache problems |
| 20:25.05 | prpplague | Lethal: vr4131? that would be nice |
| 20:26.00 | Lethal | they were using the early revs, which were pretty heavily fucked |
| 20:26.30 | prpplague | http://www.virtualcrack.com/ |
| 20:26.41 | Lethal | essentially lacked coherency, Hit_Writeback_Inv_D didn't do the Right Thing(tm), etc. |
| 20:26.51 | Lethal | and it had aliasing issues |
| 20:27.16 | Lethal | if they bothered reading their errata they'd know these things ;P |
| 20:27.42 | prpplague | Lethal: hmm, seems digi already has a nice network module worked out, however its dual serial |
| 20:27.57 | prpplague | Lethal: we are looking at replacing one serial with a parallel port |
| 20:29.56 | Lethal | sounds like fun :P |
| 20:36.31 | prpplague | Lethal: i saw something on linuxdevices.com about sh8 |
| 20:36.45 | prpplague | Lethal: did you every see the plw project? |
| 20:38.11 | Lethal | what's that expand to? |
| 20:38.38 | prpplague | Portable Linix Workstation |
| 20:38.55 | Lethal | prpplague, there is no sh8, *looks at linuxdevices* .. you read H8S with some weird byte-swapping :P |
| 20:38.55 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/links/LK3877953653.html |
| 20:39.09 | Lethal | yeah, I remember seeing pics and stuff about that |
| 20:39.25 | prpplague | Lethal: doh, dyslexia |
| 20:41.58 | Lethal | I love it when people do meaningful things like 'start_pfn = START_PFN;' |
| 20:46.38 | Lethal | the preprocessor needs a damned stupidity flag |
| 21:22.49 | CosmicPenguin | Heh... absinc apparently just went off the air... :) |
| 21:29.34 | BZFlag | sorphin: if you want a linux based pda, zaurus keyboard a pricing beats ipaqs today. |
| 21:29.40 | BZFlag | er and... |
| 21:32.52 | *** join/#elinux prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9) |
| 21:33.00 | prpplague | freakin at&t |
| 21:34.14 | *** mode/#eLinux [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 21:39.07 | kergoth | prpplague: ill second that |
| 21:55.36 | sorphin | BZFlag: that also made no sense ;) |
| 21:55.57 | sorphin | prpplague: then stop using a POS for a router ;p |
| 22:07.32 | MonMotha | hey, I have a POS that's a router |
| 22:13.33 | CosmicPenguin | POS == Cisco |
| 22:14.52 | file | ermph |
| 22:27.07 | prpplague | i hate imaging, i hate imaging, i hate imaging |
| 22:30.37 | CosmicPenguin | did CDDB go buh-bye? |
| 22:57.59 | *** join/#elinux as_ (as@modem-516.babbelas.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:58.14 | as_ | Evnin all. |
| 23:23.57 | MonMotha | CosmicPenguin: I have an actual POS |
| 23:24.02 | MonMotha | it's an old cash register |
| 23:27.23 | CosmicPenguin | MonMotha: it was a joke |
| 23:28.10 | MonMotha | CosmicPenguin: ah :) |
| 23:49.38 | *** join/#elinux mastermnd (~mastermnd@h004854622ae6.ne.client2.attbi.com) |