| 00:06.49 | *** join/#edev fire_ (~fire@unaffiliated/codingenesis) |
| 00:46.49 | *** join/#edev prpplague (~prpplague@ppp-70-242-121-173.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:53.34 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 00:53.46 | *** join/#edev fire_ (~fire@unaffiliated/codingenesis) |
| 01:07.04 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (~g1powerma@rrcs-173-197-150-28.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:07.05 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (~g1powerma@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 01:17.59 | *** join/#edev liuyq (~liuyq0307@221.123.128.226) |
| 01:20.31 | *** join/#edev liuyq (~liuyq0307@221.123.128.226) |
| 01:22.33 | *** join/#edev bizhanMona (~bizhan@nat/cisco/x-eswrkuthpdebbnqq) |
| 01:24.04 | *** join/#edev ivan` (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) |
| 02:19.10 | *** join/#edev JoeLlama (~snork@unaffiliated/joellama) |
| 02:47.54 | *** join/#edev TheSeven (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 03:06.04 | *** join/#edev blupp (~blupp@dslb-188-099-235-109.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:25.20 | *** join/#edev aholler_ (~aholler@p57B20703.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:41.59 | *** join/#edev djerome (~djerome@ip68-2-20-108.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 04:23.31 | *** join/#edev mbuf (user@nat/redhat/x-smbqicthdfmfxigh) |
| 05:47.24 | *** join/#edev Mirell (~mirell@2001:470:1f11:6f0:acc4:6bb4:ffde:fbac) |
| 05:47.24 | *** mode/#edev [+o Mirell] by ChanServ |
| 07:22.34 | *** join/#edev bizhanMona (~bizhan@nat/cisco/x-ealjwzzwxrnlhtwu) |
| 07:33.11 | *** join/#edev grummund (~user@aa.dnsdojo.com) |
| 07:33.14 | *** join/#edev grummund (~user@unaffiliated/grummund) |
| 07:43.42 | *** join/#edev file (~file@asterisk/developer-and-muffin-lover/file) |
| 08:31.03 | *** join/#edev florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 10:01.40 | *** join/#edev Mirell (~mirell@cpe-66-25-155-28.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 10:01.40 | *** mode/#edev [+o Mirell] by ChanServ |
| 10:38.35 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (~g1powerma@rrcs-173-197-150-28.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 10:38.35 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (~g1powerma@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 11:14.54 | *** join/#edev florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 11:39.45 | SpeedEvil | idly wonders who SCO is at this point. |
| 11:45.29 | *** join/#edev SpeedEvil_ (~quassel@mauve.plus.com) |
| 12:29.16 | *** join/#edev Crofton (~balister@pool-71-171-25-17.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 12:30.18 | *** join/#edev SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 12:37.38 | *** join/#edev SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 12:40.29 | slashbeast | landley: Yo, how aboriginal going? How many release blockers? |
| 12:49.00 | *** join/#edev JoeLlama (~snork@unaffiliated/joellama) |
| 12:59.26 | *** join/#edev Crofton (~balister@pool-71-171-25-17.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 13:22.45 | *** join/#edev bizhanMona (~bizhan@nat/cisco/x-niibiwmkyfdxsczq) |
| 13:51.31 | *** join/#edev SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 14:25.02 | *** join/#edev prpplague (~danders@192.94.92.11) |
| 14:46.58 | Crofton|work | prpplague, I see you are trying to wind me up over how inept fox news is :) |
| 14:47.14 | prpplague | Crofton|work: hehe |
| 14:47.30 | prpplague | Crofton|work: yea i almost didn't post it because people have issues with fox reporting |
| 14:47.41 | Crofton|work | they would never run an article saying "Green card application process slow, causing trouble for legel immigrants" |
| 14:48.08 | Crofton|work | which is what the article was about |
| 14:48.21 | prpplague | Crofton|work: yea, my issue is that if her parents were illegal she could stay |
| 14:48.28 | Crofton|work | she can stay anyway |
| 14:48.38 | Crofton|work | but, that messes up her paperwork |
| 14:48.43 | prpplague | Crofton|work: exactly |
| 14:49.30 | Crofton|work | anyway, I was amused at how the headline was crafted to wind people up |
| 14:49.44 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:49.46 | Crofton|work | and how it did not really relate to the actual story |
| 14:50.34 | Crofton|work | I guess legal immigration being broken is not a story that sells ad views |
| 14:51.04 | prpplague | most people who are going to read it are already wond up |
| 14:51.12 | prpplague | yea |
| 14:51.43 | prpplague | people don't get the fact that if they'd fix legal immigration, 95% of illegal immigration would fix itself |
| 14:52.01 | Crofton|work | yeah |
| 14:53.25 | prpplague | idiots on both sides of the isles try to make these laws that are "good on face value" but when you start looking at the implementation it just makes the whole thing worse |
| 14:54.19 | ohsix | that's the problem with laws :] |
| 14:54.44 | ohsix | if you are making a political statement, you aren't often thinking of how to write a law at the same time, even if that is what you are doing to make the same political statement |
| 14:54.59 | ohsix | there's all sorts of legal rigour that will get in the way! |
| 14:56.22 | prpplague | case in point - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Walsh_Child_Protection_and_Safety_Act#Influence_on_visa_process |
| 14:56.39 | prpplague | very well intentioned law, but they didn't think through the implications |
| 14:57.02 | ohsix | legal immigration being broken gives you all sorts of ways to take advantage of people |
| 14:57.24 | ohsix | there's a reason you can't just fix it, even if you could |
| 15:00.41 | prpplague | ohsix: it can be fixed, but it takes common sense, and practicality, neither of which are in abundence currently in washington |
| 15:01.14 | ohsix | that assumes everyone is acting in good faith, or even accept government as a principle |
| 15:01.29 | prpplague | indeed |
| 15:01.31 | ohsix | you don't need either of those to be an actual elected official |
| 15:02.01 | prpplague | has a responsible plan for solving all the immigration issues for about 5 years |
| 15:02.41 | ohsix | there are second order effects that keep even reasonably disinterested parties from agreeing with acting on it |
| 15:06.12 | landley | slashbeast: the release blockers are 1) the arm versatile stuff, 2) the fedora bug. |
| 15:06.26 | landley | I got sh4 fixed, and powerpc turns out to be the fedora bug manifesting a second way. |
| 15:06.40 | landley | I'm about halfway through debugging the fedora bug. I'll probably revert the arm patch for now to get a release out. |
| 15:07.30 | landley | slashbeast: the arm bug http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2012-07/msg03932.html |
| 15:08.08 | landley | He's under the assumption that I have an actual versatile board, or would care how it worked it if I did... |
| 15:33.13 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 15:40.25 | *** join/#edev orbarron1 (~a0271968@nat/ti/x-qpcnlrslcdvvlisz) |
| 16:03.51 | landley | ohsix: there's actually a marvelous article that explains _why_ washington's so screwed up. Wandered by recently... |
| 16:04.10 | landley | Kinda have to understand some basic economics, though. http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/3487.html |
| 16:05.52 | ohsix | you'd probably have a disfunctional airline if you had pilots that weren't actually interested in flying, too |
| 16:07.24 | ohsix | they don't believe in planes, and they're invested in rail |
| 16:11.33 | ohsix | get your dirty hands off my medicare. i don't believe in government, elect me! same thread runs through all of it |
| 16:12.33 | landley | ohsix: or you could read the article I linked to. Up to you. |
| 16:12.57 | ohsix | all these letters betray my lack of interest |
| 16:13.51 | landley | Yes. I'm just amused that you believe your lack of interest will engender interest in others reading what you have to say _about_ your lack of interest. |
| 16:13.51 | ohsix | more often than not people are proffering libertarian screeds anyways, let me look |
| 16:14.17 | ohsix | maybe i'm not motivated by personal interest, but just typing |
| 16:16.31 | landley | I found the "liberatarian titanic" analogy a good explanation of why rich people are perpetually terrified of not being rich enough. |
| 16:16.55 | landley | That was the new bit in the article, the rest either flows from there or is a repeat of what you get if you read the sane macroeconomists' blogs. |
| 16:18.01 | landley | (I _am_ interested in figuring out how the world actually works. Even when large sections of it are actively unpleasant.) |
| 16:18.35 | landley | ("Oh those guys are deluded/evil/crazy write them off" does not explain _why_.) |
| 16:30.51 | ohsix | it's well stated, not sure what i was reading it for :p (i just interjected when prpplague was talking, i wasn't reading the buffer) |
| 16:31.32 | ohsix | and it would be cool to know why a crazy person is crazy or whatever, but there are biological reasons that you may never know, even if you assume they don't exist and there are motivations behind acts |
| 16:33.09 | landley | If my house has termites I try to understand termites. Doesn't mean I envy them. |
| 16:33.26 | ohsix | personal experience says if not for mental defect, they work very hard to insulate their beliefs from all scrutiny for whatever reason, so it's turned into some sort of battle in their own head and they _are_ being persecuted by then |
| 16:33.35 | landley | If lots of people behave the same way, and form large groups to do so, "crazy" is not a sufficient level of detail. |
| 16:34.08 | landley | You can't poison termites if you don't know what they like. |
| 16:34.24 | landley | And you can't be sure you got the queen if you don't know they have a queen. |
| 16:34.33 | *** join/#edev gandhijee_ (~akp@50.12.169.99) |
| 16:34.39 | *** join/#edev sjhill (~sjhill@home.bethel-hill.org) |
| 16:34.39 | *** mode/#edev [+o sjhill] by zelazny.freenode.net |
| 16:34.43 | *** join/#edev sjhill (~sjhill@home.bethel-hill.org) |
| 16:34.44 | *** mode/#edev [+o sjhill] by ChanServ |
| 16:35.00 | ohsix | i don't think crazy is supposed to describe anything, just give you some idea of the attention you might want to pay to them on a particular subject, it might not describe motivations but it can describe what may be involved dealing with the subject in any way with them |
| 16:35.30 | ohsix | if you can find a crazy person infestation to investigate, be my guest, you might find an AM radio queen even |
| 16:36.04 | ohsix | with the termite example you can go right to biological reasons for everything they do, there's no force of will |
| 16:36.30 | *** join/#edev stereohead-away (~stereohea@fiber-087-195-245-144.solcon.nl) |
| 16:36.49 | ohsix | a termite doesn't decide he doesn't eat wood for some reason you can't discern based on characterizing their biological function |
| 16:37.02 | landley | Oh the current screwiness is just the baby boomers still being a disproportionate demographic influence. |
| 16:37.17 | landley | We had the 60's when they were teenagers, now they're in their 60's. |
| 16:37.28 | ohsix | heh |
| 16:37.44 | landley | These were the guys who said "never trust anyone over 30", so I assume they knew what they were talking about at least when describing themselves. |
| 16:38.05 | landley | They'll start dying off in another decade or so. |
| 16:40.59 | *** join/#edev NightMonkey (~NightrMon@pdpc/supporter/professional/nightmonkey) |
| 16:45.10 | *** join/#edev gandhijee_ (~akp@50.12.169.99) |
| 16:48.31 | *** join/#edev stereohead-away (~stereohea@fiber-087-195-245-144.solcon.nl) |
| 16:53.00 | *** join/#edev stereohead-away (~stereohea@fiber-087-195-245-144.solcon.nl) |
| 16:58.55 | *** join/#edev JoeLlama (~snork@unaffiliated/joellama) |
| 17:36.16 | *** part/#edev orbarron1 (~a0271968@nat/ti/x-qpcnlrslcdvvlisz) |
| 17:51.16 | *** join/#edev Crofton|work (~balister@pool-71-171-25-17.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:58.04 | *** join/#edev sjhill (~sjhill@home.bethel-hill.org) |
| 17:58.04 | *** join/#edev g1powermac (~g1powerma@unaffiliated/g1powermac) |
| 17:58.04 | *** join/#edev Posterdati (~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:58.04 | *** join/#edev solar (~solar@smtp.gentoo.org) |
| 17:58.04 | *** mode/#edev [+o sjhill] by zelazny.freenode.net |
| 18:00.53 | *** join/#edev SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 18:01.48 | *** join/#edev aholler (~aholler@p57B20703.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:31.32 | *** join/#edev florian (~fuchs@p5B23C9C8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:31.32 | *** join/#edev florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 19:22.44 | *** join/#edev bizhanMona (~bizhan@nat/cisco/x-zwsfnguxekuyjvcb) |
| 21:10.45 | *** join/#edev strnx (strnx@204.12.223.119) |
| 21:11.24 | *** join/#edev Umeaboy (~Umeaboy@213-21-78-135.customer.t3.se) |
| 21:19.24 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (~kenm@64.92.145.112) |
| 21:19.24 | *** mode/#edev [+o GPSFan] by ChanServ |
| 22:01.28 | Mirell | looks at the channel name |
| 22:01.55 | Mirell | Embedded DEVELOPMENT, not Political Ideology. |
| 22:09.06 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:19.01 | landley | Oh, somebody was asking about consulting rates. |
| 22:19.02 | landley | http://www.economistsdoitwithmodels.com/2012/08/08/when-price-as-a-signal-of-quality-goes-awry/ |
| 22:19.14 | landley | Mirell: :P |
| 22:19.50 | landley | My embedded development discussion's actually been over in #musl recently. |
| 22:20.28 | SpeedEvil | Muslim? |
| 22:20.36 | SpeedEvil | musl ? |
| 22:20.49 | SpeedEvil | stupid predictive text. |
| 22:23.01 | calculus | another libc |
| 22:23.24 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 22:23.49 | calculus | http://www.etalabs.net/musl/ |
| 22:24.22 | landley | BSD licensed. |
| 22:24.29 | landley | Smaller and simpler than uClibc. |
| 22:24.40 | landley | Not stagnant for half a decade like uCLibc's been. |
| 22:24.55 | SpeedEvil | interesting. |
| 22:24.56 | *** join/#edev mrcan (~mrcan@unaffiliated/mrcan) |
| 22:24.59 | landley | So far it only supports x86, x86-64, and arm though. |
| 22:25.06 | landley | mips and powerpc are currently in development. |
| 22:25.11 | SpeedEvil | I keep predicting Linux in qfp. |
| 22:25.26 | SpeedEvil | something like this would be handy. |
| 22:26.31 | landley | Yup. The maintainer's dalias (Rich Felker). |
| 22:27.13 | landley | Note that the repo only goes back to february 2011, so it's come a longish way in a year and change. |
| 22:27.15 | SpeedEvil | Linux with single digit Meg of Ram is coming back. |
| 22:27.34 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
| 22:27.40 | landley | Ooh, mips got merged. (Currently static linking only.) |
| 22:28.03 | landley | (Reading the WHATSNEW file. My checkout was a week old...) |
| 22:28.23 | dalias | landley, mips "works" but has a few bugs still |
| 22:28.33 | landley | Heh. You are on here. |
| 22:28.33 | dalias | dynamic linker is in git |
| 22:28.38 | SpeedEvil | it's nice when a project is that active. |
| 22:28.41 | landley | Telling 'em about your cool thing. |
| 22:28.51 | landley | I'm adding musl to aboriginal after this release. |
| 22:28.58 | dalias | nice |
| 22:29.00 | landley | Long-term migrating the libc to that the same way I'm swapping out busybox for toybox. |
| 22:29.01 | dalias | bbiab |
| 22:29.06 | landley | Have fun... |
| 22:29.06 | roxfan | did you have fun with tls yet? |
| 22:29.19 | SpeedEvil | cool indeed. |
| 22:29.19 | landley | I think musl's threading was always tls. |
| 22:29.37 | landley | It doesn't have backwards compatability stuff for 2.4, it's a fresh implementation based on posix-2008 and the current kernel. |
| 22:30.51 | landley | Sorry, was nptl I mean. |
| 22:30.59 | landley | nptl requires tls. |
| 22:32.32 | *** join/#edev GeorgeH (~George@c-69-141-105-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 22:40.25 | calculus | hmm... there was a linux distribution based on busybox and uclibc with a fairly complete X environment (xfce, maybe?)... a-something |
| 22:41.36 | landley | calculus: um, I made one at some point? |
| 22:41.49 | landley | Using the beyond linux from scratch instructions, fvwm, and... rxvt I think it was? |
| 22:41.51 | SpeedEvil | remembers making a Linux floppy with X,kernel, networking, xterm, browser. |
| 22:42.02 | landley | I'd do it again if I had _time_. |
| 22:42.06 | SpeedEvil | mwm? |
| 22:42.17 | SpeedEvil | it was some time ago. |
| 22:42.41 | SpeedEvil | I ripped bloat out of lynx to make it fit. |
| 22:42.50 | calculus | ah, found it, http://alpinelinux.org/ |
| 22:42.51 | landley | Getting x working isn't that hard, if you just slap it on top of framebuffer or vnc. |
| 22:43.00 | landley | calculus: natanael copa's thing, yeah. |
| 22:43.10 | landley | x86 only, last I checked. |
| 22:43.18 | SpeedEvil | neat perl tool to track down dependancoes on every file. |
| 22:43.33 | landley | ncopa did the posix binding library for lua. |
| 22:43.40 | landley | If that shipped by default, lua would be a whooole lot more interesting. |
| 22:54.40 | Umeaboy | I could use some help in fixing this error when I attempt to copy a device-block from a tablet to a computer using SSH-remote: http://pastebin.ca/2178563 |
| 23:24.32 | landley | Umeaboy: what happens if you ssh to get a shell, and then do the cat? |
| 23:24.43 | landley | If you cat the block device to /dev/null do you still get a segfault? |
| 23:26.19 | Umeaboy | landley: I'll check. |
| 23:37.22 | *** join/#edev prpplague (~prpplague@ppp-70-242-113-233.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 23:37.40 | Umeaboy | landley: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I can't boot it now. Screen went bersoik when I booted into recovery. |
| 23:37.58 | Umeaboy | Colours over the entire surface. |
| 23:37.59 | dalias | landley, musl's threading is a completely new implementation |
| 23:38.05 | dalias | not based on any old stuff |
| 23:38.13 | dalias | and unlike nptl it actually attempts to conform to posix |
| 23:41.43 | Umeaboy | landley: I do get into download mode thou. |
| 23:44.18 | prpplague | ho ho ho |
| 23:44.24 | prpplague | merry freakin wednesday |
| 23:44.43 | landley | Umeaboy: hard to diagnose the problem if you can't reproduce it. |
| 23:44.55 | prpplague | landley: what;s cookin boss man? |
| 23:45.02 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 23:45.51 | landley | dalias: as long as it runs http://landley.net/hg/aboriginal/file/3b7e8d600c19/sources/root-filesystem/src/thread-hello2.c then I"m out of test cases. :) |
| 23:45.53 | Umeaboy | landley: Yes. |
| 23:46.08 | landley | That's my big "make the threading implementation actually _do_ something, and confirm that it did it" test case. |
| 23:46.10 | Umeaboy | I could use a firmware-package to flash to reset it. |
| 23:46.25 | landley | You'd be amazed how many threading variants that _breaks_, by the way... |
| 23:46.29 | Umeaboy | samfirmware gives me no such option since Sweden isn't in the list. |