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| 00:35.55 | gkwhc | Hi! I am trying to setup a linux arm development toolchain with eclipse + openocd + jlink. I am not quite sure how to setup the debug server/session. Please advise! |
| 01:03.04 | MonMotha | anybody know of a barebones, crazy simple text/basic widgets (e.g. bar graph) library suitable for small screens (e.g. 150x75px) and having essentially no dependencies? |
| 01:03.35 | MonMotha | this is for a bare metal application, not Linux or similar |
| 01:03.46 | g1powermac | euh |
| 01:03.49 | g1powermac | not sure |
| 01:04.10 | g1powermac | had some linux level stuff, but nothing bare metal |
| 01:04.10 | MonMotha | I mean, it shouldn't be too complicated to make one, but it seems like something somebody's already done a thousand times |
| 01:04.37 | g1powermac | there was one I found once, but not technically open source |
| 01:04.45 | MonMotha | yeah, I know of plenty of toolkits for Linux, but I'm talking something just enough to put a basic HMI on a little dot matrix LCD module |
| 01:04.49 | g1powermac | though the source was downloadable |
| 01:06.42 | g1powermac | aha, its called uC/GUI |
| 01:06.53 | g1powermac | found it via this: http://www.cutedigi.com/product_info.php?cPath=282_308&products_id=4407 |
| 01:08.06 | g1powermac | the only thing is, its based on uC/OS, which isn't oss |
| 01:08.16 | MonMotha | right |
| 01:08.19 | MonMotha | this doesn't even have an OS :) |
| 01:08.34 | MonMotha | it's easily capable of running something smallish (but no MMU), but it just doesn't need one |
| 01:09.39 | g1powermac | well, uC/OS would in all likelihood work on it, but yea, I understand |
| 01:09.53 | calculus | I used a usb lcd screen that only accepted commands (byte structures, first being the instruction, next being the arguments) to draw |
| 01:10.48 | MonMotha | this is just a framebuffer |
| 01:10.51 | calculus | I think I just did on fopen on the /dev node and then wrote the necessary bytes to have it draw |
| 01:11.20 | MonMotha | oh, this particular device is crazy simple to talk to. The issue is that it's so simple, I have to do things like draw the text myself :) |
| 01:11.40 | MonMotha | I mean, it's tiny, and the update rate is limited by human interaction, so it's not performance sensitive |
| 01:12.08 | calculus | yep, same here |
| 01:12.13 | calculus | it was this: http://store.earthlcd.com/ezLCD-004-ezLCD004 |
| 01:12.32 | MonMotha | this is even simpler |
| 01:12.42 | calculus | part of the text drawing command, was an argument for which of the 4 built-in fonts to use |
| 01:12.52 | MonMotha | think HD44780 but without the character generator |
| 01:13.03 | MonMotha | it's nothing but a dumb, monochrome framebuffer |
| 01:13.06 | roxfan | nxp has SWIM |
| 01:13.52 | roxfan | they also recently released emWin for lpcs |
| 01:13.53 | calculus | oh, that is simpler |
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| 01:17.09 | MonMotha | hum, even SWIM looks more complicated than I need, but may have some useful resources |
| 01:17.22 | MonMotha | this thing really is the size of like a little HD44780 based display |
| 01:18.12 | MonMotha | a whopping 122x32 pixels |
| 01:21.52 | prpplague | http://picogui.org/ |
| 01:24.43 | MonMotha | I think I can pretty much use SWIM |
| 01:24.59 | MonMotha | somewhat surprisingly, it doesn't appear to have a "for use only on NXP devices" restriction in the license |
| 01:27.02 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 01:27.06 | prpplague | MonMotha: what's cookin? |
| 01:27.48 | MonMotha | prpplague: working on a little embedded doohicky with audio analysis and some power outputs |
| 01:28.00 | MonMotha | has a HMI for tweaking some settings |
| 01:28.20 | MonMotha | also, totally unrelated, working on a rather sizable telco metro ethernet deployment |
| 01:28.37 | prpplague | HMI? Hughes Medical Institute? |
| 01:28.42 | prpplague | jokes with MonMotha |
| 01:29.01 | MonMotha | no, far more mundane :) Just the normal human-machine interface |
| 01:29.54 | prpplague | watches galatica 1980 return of starbuck |
| 01:30.30 | MonMotha | I have to say, I wish I could get the kind of network I'm helping design delivered to my house |
| 01:30.36 | MonMotha | 10Gb floating everywhere |
| 01:30.45 | Mirell | FloatFloatFloat |
| 01:31.52 | prpplague | decimals decimals decimals points everywhere and not to drink err use |
| 02:03.15 | MonMotha | oh interesting. The framebuffer organization of this thing lets me take some shortcuts with my text generation |
| 02:03.25 | MonMotha | like drawing a character becomes memcpy :) |
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| 03:29.12 | Mirell | Miao. |
| 03:47.32 | ohsix | http://hackaday.com/2010/03/31/update-50mhz-to-100mhz-scope-conversion/ how did i miss this :[ |
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| 03:59.58 | MonMotha | ohsix: don't get me wrong, it's a neat hack, and I'm all for taking advantage of business practices like that, but it's an awful lot of work to save what appears to be $40 (the price difference between the two models) |
| 04:00.16 | ohsix | it was more in 2010 :> |
| 04:02.27 | MonMotha | oh, I guess that was Amazon playing tricks on me |
| 04:02.36 | MonMotha | I guess yeah, it's darn near twice as much |
| 04:02.42 | MonMotha | yeah, stick it to 'em :) |
| 04:04.00 | MonMotha | I still want one of the fancy Tek MSOs |
| 04:04.05 | MonMotha | not cheap, though |
| 04:04.10 | MonMotha | and they still insist of putting crappy displays on them |
| 04:04.55 | ohsix | yea, the lecroy ones are almost test equipment pornography |
| 04:05.30 | ohsix | those hack scopes from the chinese mp3 player things are pretty cute |
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| 15:13.35 | landley | Morning |
| 15:14.21 | florian | hi landley |
| 15:14.26 | kergoth | morning |
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| 15:17.10 | landley | Hi florian. Hi kergoth. how goes stuff? |
| 15:17.38 | kergoth | one of those days, woke up with a headache, nice way to start the day. otherwise good. you? |
| 15:17.51 | landley | I got most of the release notes collated for the aboriginal 1.1.1 release this morning, now I just have to write it up and rebuild from current tip. (Left a server rebuilding earlier.) |
| 15:18.11 | landley | Oh, darn it, I don't think I checked in the control-images tweak needed to fix the static-build.hdc stuff... |
| 15:18.16 | landley | Oh well, rebuild again when I get home... |
| 15:18.25 | landley | kergoth: I'm stressed to the gills for some reason. |
| 15:18.55 | florian | fights the fact that there are an incredibly amount of fairs in the coming weeks and every customer starts tre yearly panic mode |
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| 15:19.08 | landley | fairs? |
| 15:19.21 | landley | CES was a couple days ago... |
| 15:19.25 | florian | trade shows |
| 15:19.30 | florian | yes |
| 15:19.44 | landley | Scale is weekend after next. |
| 15:20.02 | florian | landley: well... I'm located in Europe - we have several really large ones in spring. |
| 15:20.07 | landley | (It was a fun show, I'd like to go back, but I spent all my vacation time over christmas at a family reunion.) |
| 15:20.14 | landley | Ah. |
| 15:22.20 | landley | Oh, you guys will love this: The FSF has retroactively made binutils 2.17 GPLv3. |
| 15:22.34 | landley | They replaced the binutils 2.17 binary with a new one that has a bunch of GPLv3 files in it. |
| 15:22.40 | landley | Didn't rename it, just replaced the old release. |
| 15:22.54 | landley | Luckily I still have the original at http://landley.net/aboriginal/mirror/binutils-2.17.tar.bz2 |
| 15:23.09 | landley | but the one of the gnu/dammit project's FTP site? Contaminated. |
| 15:23.18 | kergoth | ... |
| 15:23.18 | landley | The file dates are even 2011, for a release that happened in 2006. |
| 15:23.24 | kergoth | you don't replace released archives, ever |
| 15:23.30 | landley | Tell _them_ that. |
| 15:23.35 | kergoth | shakes head and sighs |
| 15:23.50 | file | omg |
| 15:23.52 | file | that's nuts |
| 15:24.27 | florian | evil... this really should not happen |
| 15:24.31 | landley | See ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/binutils/ |
| 15:24.52 | landley | ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/binutils/binutils-2.17.tar.bz2 is apparently now a symlink to "2.17a" |
| 15:25.43 | landley | The original 2.17 file appears to be gone from the archive. (Or at least I can't find it. There isn't a 2.17 subdirectory.) |
| 15:25.46 | landley | that was the last GPLv2 release. |
| 15:25.50 | landley | file: the FSF _isnuts. |
| 15:26.03 | landley | florian: the FSF is evil. It has been ever since it lost relevance in 1993. |
| 15:26.40 | landley | The FSF rose to prominence because there were only about 3 ways to get your code on an FTP site for free back in 1992. (sunsite, cdrom.com, and the MIT project athena servers). |
| 15:27.18 | landley | Then the backbone policy changed in 1993 allowing for-profit ISPs, and suddenly nobody would jump through the FSF's hoops to get their code distributed anymore: they had geocities now. |
| 15:27.24 | landley | The FSF, of course, blamed Linux. |
| 15:28.03 | landley | But Ted T'so got Linux on the MIT athena servers _without_ having to go through Stallman. He had the same upstream access as an MIT server admin, and could do what he liked... |
| 15:28.17 | landley | This is not how the FSF tells history, of course. |
| 15:29.11 | landley | Copyright was applied to binaries in 1983 by the Apple vs Franklin court decision, and before that everything was open source because copyright didn't apply to binaries. |
| 15:29.48 | landley | Stallman's "big scheme" of free software wasn't forward-looking, it was a conservative reactionary attempt to preserve the status quo in the face of upstream legal changes which were the "software patents" of their day. |
| 15:31.22 | landley | He wasn't the only one who responded. The BSD guys responded, Andrew Tanenbaum did Minix (and Linux a Minix clone with SunOS influences, as Linus will tell you...) |
| 15:32.11 | landley | Sigh. I wouldn't mind if the guy didn't keep trying to corner the open source market and take credit for other people's work. But somebody else telling me what to do in the name of freedom is hypocrisy of the highest order... |
| 15:32.58 | kergoth | i keep meaning to spend some quality time playing with minix3.. one of these days |
| 15:33.58 | landley | Eh, it was interesting for its' day. |
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| 15:34.14 | landley | Tanenbaum wanted a teaching tool, so he made a teaching tool. |
| 15:34.59 | landley | He refused all patches that would turn it into a real usable operating system, because what he _wanted_ was a toy operating system that was easy to understand, and demonstrated the academic fads of the time (microkernel architecture) that he wanted to teach. |
| 15:35.12 | mnemoc | python was also created as a teaching tool... |
| 15:35.16 | kergoth | ah.. fair enough, given its priorities |
| 15:35.26 | landley | mnemoc: Guido took patches. Tanenbaum didn't. |
| 15:35.27 | kergoth | maybe i need to play with openbsd or something. a non-gnu userland appeals to me |
| 15:35.37 | florian | what was php developed for? ;) |
| 15:35.49 | mnemoc | florian: perl for the web |
| 15:35.50 | landley | Guido Van Rossum let Python be steered by its user community. Tanenbaum explicitly refused to do so. |
| 15:36.19 | landley | Which is why the huge bunch of developers on comp.os.minix that were maintaining a patch stack to turn Minix into a real OS could never push any of their patches upstream. |
| 15:36.40 | mnemoc | landley: why no fork then? |
| 15:36.41 | landley | And all suddenly switched over to Linux when Linus showed up with a bootable kernel that _did_ accept patches. |
| 15:36.52 | landley | mnemoc: well, linux sort of was a fork. |
| 15:37.02 | mnemoc | :) |
| 15:37.12 | landley | Minix wasn't free. It came on the CD in the back of the textbook, but to legally get it you had to buy a $100 textbook. |
| 15:37.22 | mnemoc | uh |
| 15:37.27 | landley | And then you could modify your copy to your hearts' content, but couldn't ship derivatives. |
| 15:37.48 | landley | Tanenbaum GPL'd it about a decade later, by which point it was moot. |
| 15:38.40 | landley | Minix was a proprietary OS that came with full source code, for a price individuals could reasonably afford. That made it really stand out in its' time, but it wasn't collaboratively developed open source available as a free download through the internet. |
| 15:39.14 | landley | Considering that home ISPs were illegal (couldn't hook up to the NSFnet backbone) until 1993, Tanenbaum's position can merely be considered "not particularly foresighted" rather than actually dumb. |
| 15:39.36 | landley | He was an academic. And a good one. But they tend to live in ivory towers, not down in the trenches where you can see the next wave coming... |
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| 16:54.27 | GPSFan | landley, I've got a copy of binutils-2.17.50.0.17.tar.bz2 from 2007 if you need it. |
| 16:54.54 | landley | I have a copy of the old vanilla 2.17 snapshotted. |
| 16:55.07 | GPSFan | ok, just thoought it might help.. |
| 16:55.17 | landley | I just thought it was a particularly slimy moe for them to replace the last GPLv2 version with a GPlv3 version 5 years after the fact. |
| 16:55.30 | GPSFan | not cool. |
| 16:55.35 | landley | Yup. |
| 16:57.07 | kergoth | the toolchain guys at work said the a version was supposed to include generated files that were missed in the stock 2.17 release, and that if any gplv3 files were pulled in, it was someone's screwup and shoudl be brought up on the binutils list |
| 16:57.18 | kergoth | s/the a version/the "a" version/ |
| 16:57.25 | kergoth | kicks purl |
| 16:57.53 | GPSFan | landley, btw might you elaborate a bit on the 3.2 breakage you observed wrt host/target "size". I know your airlock in Aboriginal caught it. I couldn't find any references to it on lkml. |
| 16:58.11 | landley | Ah, did I forget to send the patch upstream? |
| 16:59.02 | landley | http://landley.net/hg/aboriginal/file/62dd9695d825/sources/patches/linux-fixarm.patch |
| 16:59.04 | GPSFan | landley, I last looked at it a couple of days ago, I've been building 3.2 for pandaboard and haven't seen any issues. |
| 16:59.25 | landley | it's using the host "size" on a target binary. Probably works for arm, but is generally _unclean_. |
| 16:59.39 | landley | (I note that using the host strip on an sh4 binary breaks the binary.) |
| 16:59.51 | landley | (Because _ and . prefixes get swapped on symbols like "start") |
| 17:00.08 | GPSFan | landley, thanks. |
| 17:00.25 | landley | My general rule is "this is one of the things binutils installed, and which binutils applies a prefix to. Therefore, use the prefixed version for target binaries." |
| 17:01.13 | landley | And I set my build up so that only ar as nm cc make ld gcc are _available_ from the host toolchain. |
| 17:01.33 | landley | (Because that's what the cross compiled package set needs to build its host binaries. Determined experimentally.) |
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| 17:31.24 | Mirell | Sans test tubes. |
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| 17:50.06 | landley | Mirell: indeed. |
| 17:50.23 | landley | Guten Blinking Morgen. |
| 17:50.36 | landley | Or possibly Bonus Nachoes, depending on time of day. |
| 17:51.06 | landley | Bonus Cameron Diaz. One of them. |
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| 21:24.46 | GPSFan | landley, fyi, this: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=commit;h=1ec332a3756a22405d2fbd5352e3afab556cb205 although submitted before 3.2 was released did make it into the merge window for 3.3-rc1 |
| 21:25.19 | landley | Yay, they already dealt with it upstream. :) |
| 21:25.34 | landley | (Often the case, although I need to resubmit my perl removal patches for something like the 11th time...) |
| 21:25.55 | landley | This time around was just a rediff to remove fuzz, the patches themselves haven't changed in a while now. |
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| 21:28.07 | GPSFan | ah yes, the perl removal patches, it's certainly long past time they were merged and perl banished to the dungeon it deserves. |
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| 21:38.23 | MonMotha | I am currently banging my head against a vendor provided linker script that was so super crazy fragile that I decided it just needed to be re-written |
| 21:38.34 | MonMotha | in other news, the linker script language can be a bit obtuse |
| 21:40.03 | roxfan | news at 11 |
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