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| 00:34.24 | prpplague | ~seen marex |
| 00:34.25 | purl | marex <n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz> was last seen on IRC in channel #openezx, 8d 8h 34m 55s ago, saying: 'ok'. |
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| 01:07.23 | landley | Morning. |
| 01:07.34 | landley | For a definition of morning that doesn't really have to do with morning at all, really. |
| 01:07.41 | landley | And yet. |
| 01:08.14 | prpplague | landley greetings earthling |
| 01:08.39 | landley | Hi prpplague. How goes? |
| 01:10.41 | roxfan | morning is when i wake up |
| 01:11.50 | prpplague | landley it's gooing |
| 01:12.10 | prpplague | landley got more work than i can handle, just pissy about slow payers |
| 01:12.54 | prpplague | landley finishing up a design for a spring loaded interface for jtag and uart to some cell phones |
| 01:15.54 | SpeedEvil | is pondering working out one of those for sale for hte n900 |
| 01:15.57 | SpeedEvil | with shapeways |
| 01:16.12 | SpeedEvil | Or bitofwoodandglueways |
| 01:24.38 | landley | spring loaded uart...? |
| 01:24.50 | landley | goes to pick up a pizza. |
| 01:25.02 | SpeedEvil | spring loaded pins to contact UART pads on the board |
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| 02:00.37 | prpplague | landley yea, the pins are spring loaded so you press them against the pads on the back of the phone |
| 02:01.17 | prpplague | landley pretty common in production systems |
| 02:03.13 | prpplague | landley http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ED8181-ND |
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| 02:23.17 | prpplague | doh, i guess the pizza got the better of landley |
| 02:23.23 | kergoth | heh |
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| 02:36.25 | landley | And I've been accepted to CELF, to give the developing with qemu talk from Ohio LinuxFest. |
| 02:36.50 | landley | That's in April. And apparently I'm speaking at Flourish (in Chicago) next month too. |
| 02:36.58 | kergoth | nice |
| 02:37.08 | landley | Possibly I should tell the Google recruiter my dance card's filling up... |
| 02:37.17 | landley | He's only had SEVEN MONTHS TO THINK ABOUT IT... |
| 02:38.05 | landley | Eh, I'll wait until the contract's signed to tell him about the rockwell thing. Don't hatchet your counts before they chicken, and all that. |
| 02:43.58 | prpplague | landley hehe |
| 02:44.04 | prpplague | landley that's what i've been doing |
| 02:44.19 | landley | prpplague: not telling people about the rockwell thing? Wise. |
| 02:44.21 | prpplague | landley don't count on any one item, work on the ones that people commit to |
| 03:14.40 | Mirell | landley: Sent you the thing |
| 03:23.32 | landley | Mirell: woot. Thanks. |
| 03:28.19 | Mirell | I require $25 whenever you get paid to register this awesome billing/invoice app I found. |
| 03:28.34 | landley | Mirell: agreed. |
| 03:28.56 | landley | We can expense it when we run the check through Impact, if this actually turns into real money. (Fingers crossed.) |
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| 04:51.39 | neel97330 | hi can someone help me with bitbake? |
| 04:59.29 | landley | neel97330 what do you need it to do? |
| 05:00.56 | neel97330 | i am getting this error when i try to run bitbake NameError: global name 'os' is not defined |
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| 05:01.41 | neel97330 | im using ubuntu 9.10 |
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| 05:04.50 | neel97330 | followed the instructions at http://blog.leggewie.org/?p=39 |
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| 05:13.17 | landley | neel97330 it sounds like it's written in Python, and the python standard libraries aren't installed. |
| 05:13.29 | landley | The "os" package is a standard Python import. |
| 05:14.09 | landley | Try making a quick little "#!/usr/bin/python" script that just does "import os,sys" and see what that says when you run it. |
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| 13:12.09 | landley | Morning! |
| 13:12.18 | landley | (For once, it actually _is_ morning. Go figure.) |
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| 13:47.23 | mnemoc | :) |
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| 14:26.22 | chouimat | morning |
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| 14:52.56 | kergoth | morning |
| 15:05.04 | landley | bedtime |
| 15:05.18 | prpplague | landley: already? |
| 15:05.34 | landley | prpplague: haven't been to bed yet. :) |
| 15:06.02 | landley | Figured out why armv6 was triggering the OOM killer, though. Bad qemu snapshot. |
| 15:06.10 | prpplague | doh |
| 15:06.18 | prpplague | has a ton of work to do |
| 15:06.20 | landley | Gotta try current -git and see if it fixed it, but after sleeping a bit, I think... |
| 15:06.35 | prpplague | jtag is giving me grief this morning |
| 15:06.39 | landley | I need to get the nightly builds working again, with the git bisect automated as part of that. |
| 15:06.50 | landley | Testing qemu snapshots was one of the five builds we were originally doing. |
| 15:07.18 | landley | (the FWL scripts themselves, linux-git, uClibc-git, busybox-git, and the running the result with qemu snapshot.) |
| 15:11.51 | chouimat | prpplague: hey |
| 15:12.21 | prpplague | chouimat: hey |
| 15:13.16 | kergoth | automated bisect with nightly builds would be handy for most things |
| 15:13.17 | kergoth | heh |
| 15:13.56 | chouimat | not again ... brb |
| 15:17.23 | chouimat | this is starting to drive me nuts |
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| 15:25.47 | prpplague | ~seen marex |
| 15:25.50 | purl | marex is currently on #htc-linux (32m 1s) #handhelds (32m 1s) #oe (32m 1s) #openezx (32m 1s) #opie (32m 1s), last said: 'ok'. |
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| 16:16.07 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:17.09 | Mirell | Excluding the two most critical components? |
| 16:17.21 | Mirell | Um...I'd ask them about their chairs. |
| 16:17.33 | Mirell | I still miss my Aeron chair. |
| 16:19.07 | kergoth | i signed this job offer letter, and then my current position went apeshit and matched everything and added some on top.. but the work at both jobs is exactly the same :) |
| 16:20.26 | prpplague | kergoth: they added some on top? |
| 16:21.03 | prpplague | kergoth: the only issue with taking up on counter offers, you have to wonder, are they keeping me around until they can find other people to take over? |
| 16:21.07 | kergoth | well, only in the form of rsus currently, but my boss says if i want more salary to ask and he'll talk to the ceo |
| 16:21.47 | kergoth | but, I'm sure i can negotiate a similar amount at the other place, either now or at the first performance review, so I'm not to concerned about the financials |
| 16:22.08 | kergoth | that's true, except that experts on OE aren't exactly a dime a dozen |
| 16:22.55 | kergoth | is leaning toward the other offer at this point, was just curious about perspectives on evaluating/comparing offers in general |
| 16:23.03 | prpplague | well, if it were me, and i'm no expert on these matters, i would look to get some benefits that aren't salary, such as commitements to pay for conferences and time to do "projects of interest" |
| 16:23.22 | kergoth | hmm, that's a good point, i hadn't considered things like that |
| 16:23.27 | kergoth | conferences can be expensive |
| 16:24.16 | kergoth | they just keep screwing with my head.. i had decided on the other offer, then these guys are like, here, talk to the CEO and CFO a while.. and here, would you like some more money? .. uh.. :) |
| 16:24.43 | prpplague | kergoth: CosmicPenguin might be a more informed person to ask, he is much more up on finances and job negotiations than i |
| 16:24.54 | kergoth | CosmicPenguin: boo |
| 16:25.24 | kergoth | it's difficult to judge when the differences are minor rather than particularly compelling |
| 16:25.33 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:26.14 | prpplague | kergoth: indeed |
| 16:26.52 | CosmicPenguin | reads |
| 16:27.16 | prpplague | kergoth: things like conferences and hardware items (i.e. company laptop, eval boards) to me state more about the companies willingness to keep you happy beyond $$ |
| 16:27.51 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah, that is good advice |
| 16:28.10 | CosmicPenguin | Which place would make you happiest (excluding the grass on the other side factor) |
| 16:28.45 | kergoth | its hard to say. both jobs are working on OE based commercial products with a UI on top of it, both allow pushing the code to open source |
| 16:28.50 | kergoth | scratches head |
| 16:29.25 | kergoth | thanks for the tips, i'll have to keep conferences and hardware and the like in mind in the future, hadn't thought about that |
| 16:29.31 | CosmicPenguin | Which company would have sent you to FOSDEM? :) |
| 16:29.38 | kergoth | heh :) good question |
| 16:29.54 | kergoth | i doubt mv/cavium would have, they don't seem apt to spend much on travel |
| 16:30.00 | Mirell | I'm leary of places that try to do a huge increase in salary to keep you from leaving. |
| 16:30.02 | kergoth | course, nobody has much lately |
| 16:30.06 | prpplague | kergoth: trust me, that says alot |
| 16:30.14 | Mirell | Because then you're the first to go when money's tight. |
| 16:30.28 | CosmicPenguin | All the more reason to get paid now |
| 16:30.32 | kergoth | also, MV has had multiple layoffs, the other place made it through the economic situation only with reduced expendatures |
| 16:31.17 | chouimat | kergoth: it's hard to tell ... personnaly I would go with the company that seems healthier |
| 16:31.43 | CosmicPenguin | kergoth is imminently hirable |
| 16:31.48 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:31.54 | CosmicPenguin | As most of us are |
| 16:32.37 | kergoth | well, Linux expertise is already a subset of the regular coders, then embedded Linux is a smaller field within that, it does seem we're in a certain amount of demand |
| 16:32.43 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: thanks I know that I'm not ;) |
| 16:33.33 | Mirell | It's sad. Just knowing what "open source" or "gcc" is in some shops sets you head or shoulders above others |
| 16:34.15 | kergoth | Mirell: the salary thing is a good point, but its hard to say whether they were just cheap, or if i was just stupid and willing to take less than i should have. i moved from a pure bugfixing role into one of the primary developers on the integration platform for their new flagship product, and didn't ask for a raise.. i was a moron :) |
| 16:34.51 | prpplague | well the thing i'm finding is that HR and recruiters don't understand that Android uses a linux kernel |
| 16:35.02 | Mirell | kergoth: It happens to all of us. I'm still learning. |
| 16:35.04 | kergoth | that's not too surprising, considering how its being marketed |
| 16:35.15 | Mirell | prpplague: It uses a Linux kernel with out-of-tree patches |
| 16:35.33 | Mirell | prpplague: So yes, it's Linux, with some special mojo-jojo APIs that is not maintained in the vanilla kernel |
| 16:35.38 | prpplague | Mirell: yes, however, the HR people are asking for people with experience with android kernel development |
| 16:35.50 | chouimat | hopes to have news about yesterday interview soon |
| 16:35.54 | Mirell | prpplague: Which is a specific subset of kernel development.. |
| 16:35.59 | kergoth | Mirell: its difficult to judge, especially in a fairly small field. you can't just look at sites like payscale and expect to get a useful set of numbers for your value, when those numbers are for software engineers in general, not the particular niche you specialize in, you know |
| 16:36.13 | Mirell | kergoth: Oh, definitely. |
| 16:36.59 | prpplague | Mirell: yes i understand your point in that, but they are looking for people to do basic kernel drivers, not nessarilly specific items for android |
| 16:37.17 | prpplague | Mirell: or atleast that's what i've gotten called about in the last 30-60 days |
| 16:37.44 | prpplague | Mirell: i.e. battery/power management, touchscreen drivers, usb work |
| 16:38.10 | chouimat | kergoth: one of my most important criteria is how the people at that place seems to be interacting with each others ... I'm mean are they chatting about anything all the time or they look at each other like they want to stab everyone ... |
| 16:38.29 | kergoth | heh, downside to full telecommute and phone interviews, hard to judge that :) |
| 16:38.39 | chouimat | kergoth: true |
| 16:41.10 | chouimat | kergoth: yesterday interview I was on site, so I was able to get a glimpse of this and one important thing is they have individual cubicles ... way better imho than the 6x6 one of Xandros or the complete open space of my last job |
| 16:41.46 | kergoth | heh, too many distractions when its that open, harder to really focus and get into the zone |
| 16:42.48 | chouimat | kergoth: yup and with a CEO that complain that most of spend our time listening to music instead of working and communication with each others ... we had an internal IRC server, but it wasn't enough for him |
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| 16:43.52 | ercani | hi |
| 16:45.53 | Mirell | Wow. |
| 16:45.58 | Mirell | chouimat: 6x6 cubicles? |
| 16:48.57 | chouimat | Mirell: old call center |
| 16:49.18 | chouimat | Mirell: sorry 2x3 :) |
| 16:50.20 | chouimat|away | bbl |
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| 17:17.23 | ercani | I have a question about win mobile or wince |
| 17:17.39 | ercani | or that may be a generic question |
| 17:18.05 | ercani | there is an arm system and has touchscreen |
| 17:18.31 | ercani | there is keypad on the screen |
| 17:18.46 | ercani | I press the keys and type something.. |
| 17:19.42 | ercani | is there any way to type instead of touch screen ? |
| 17:20.41 | prpplague | ercani: i don't understand your question, are you asking if there is a way to use a physical keyboard instead of using the onscreen touch keyboard? |
| 17:20.53 | ercani | say you have a gps device |
| 17:20.59 | ercani | there is address bar |
| 17:21.19 | ercani | I use keyboard that appear on the screen |
| 17:21.28 | prpplague | ok |
| 17:21.30 | ercani | and software reads output |
| 17:21.44 | ercani | say I dont want to use keyboard |
| 17:21.55 | ercani | what can I do ? |
| 17:22.15 | ercani | can access there by using address ? |
| 17:22.30 | ercani | memory address or anything else ? |
| 17:22.45 | prpplague | ercani: i am sorry, i am not understanding what you want to do |
| 17:23.02 | prpplague | ercani: are you wanting to enter the address from something other than the onscreen keyboard? |
| 17:23.10 | ercani | u know gps device |
| 17:23.18 | ercani | you type street name |
| 17:23.25 | prpplague | yes i understand that part |
| 17:23.37 | ercani | there is a keyboard in the gps software |
| 17:23.56 | ercani | after you type the address then it passes to map |
| 17:24.27 | ercani | I dont want to use keyboard |
| 17:24.49 | ercani | let another software access keyboard |
| 17:25.40 | prpplague | ercani: if you are using the standard onscreen keyboard from windows CE, it acts just like any other keyboard by passing the data to the input layer |
| 17:26.03 | prpplague | ercani: if you want to place data on the input layer, just create a input driver |
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| 17:26.39 | ercani | then I will be able to enter address in that software ? |
| 17:27.03 | ercani | gps software is looking for input layer, right ? |
| 17:28.14 | prpplague | ercani: it should be |
| 17:31.46 | ercani | thnks |
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| 19:10.50 | chouimat | YESSSSS!!!!! |
| 19:11.17 | CosmicPenguin | jobbyjobjob |
| 19:11.18 | CosmicPenguin | ? |
| 19:13.39 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: in a way ... they asked me if I would accept to be a contractor for 6 months, since the guy is really interested in having me ... |
| 19:14.03 | CosmicPenguin | nice |
| 19:14.58 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: so this mean they don't have to pay me any insurances etc etc etc |
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| 19:37.11 | Chocobo | What is the .rodata section... is that where constants are located? |
| 19:38.13 | roxfan | read-only data, yes |
| 19:39.51 | Chocobo | interesting. Is there a way with objdump to get the size of it? For some reason it doesn't show up with -h. |
| 19:40.33 | Chocobo | ohh. sorry, that is because I do not have an output section named rodata... I put it in my .text output section. |
| 19:42.04 | Chocobo | cool. works great, thanks :) |
| 19:48.25 | Mirell | chouimat: Congrats |
| 19:49.44 | chouimat | Mirell: still need to negociate my rates but thanks :) |
| 19:49.59 | Mirell | chouimat: Anything is better than $0 |
| 19:50.20 | chouimat | Mirell: currently it's 790CAD for 2 weeks ... Employment Insurance |
| 19:51.37 | Mirell | Yah unemployment insurance |
| 19:51.41 | Mirell | Yay, rather. |
| 19:52.08 | prpplague | US unemployment stuff is pretty much worthless |
| 19:52.24 | chouimat | Mirell: they renamed it to Employment insurance here .... it's sound more positive |
| 19:52.35 | Mirell | That's just dumb. |
| 19:52.45 | chouimat | I know |
| 19:52.56 | Mirell | Do I refer to fire insurance as not-on-fire insurance... |
| 19:53.11 | Mirell | Actually, that'd be pretty funnty |
| 19:53.14 | Mirell | Er, funny. |
| 19:55.28 | chouimat | just hope I will get it |
| 20:07.34 | *** join/#edev florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 20:16.38 | calculus | that is like headache medicine fixes headaches, vs antiheadache |
| 20:19.41 | chouimat | :) |
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| 20:33.33 | *** join/#edev SpeedEvil (1000@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 21:39.59 | Mirell | prpplague: http://cstx.gov/index.aspx?recordid=122&page=3086 |
| 21:41.00 | chouimat | Mirell: wtf? |
| 21:41.36 | CosmicPenguin | Those are my 5 cents, you bastard! |
| 21:47.47 | *** part/#edev ercani (~ercani@78.185.35.74) |
| 23:13.00 | *** join/#edev Spida (~timo@ns1.spinnennetz.org) |
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| 23:23.16 | rektide | its sad how #openplug and the openplug wiki &all went from really active |
| 23:23.21 | rektide | to basically on life support |
| 23:23.34 | rektide | its a great platform |
| 23:24.05 | rektide | then again, /my/ system runs. what do i need a wiki for, its just a debian system now. |