| 00:01.44 | pingbat | is the open pandora actually open? |
| 00:02.05 | pingbat | can't find any detailed hardware info |
| 00:06.30 | MonMotha | I have not used kicad |
| 00:06.59 | MonMotha | the only ECAD packages I have used to any real extent are gEDA/pcb, OrCAD, PADS, and Altium Designer/DXP |
| 00:07.08 | MonMotha | oh, and I guess Eagle |
| 00:07.50 | MonMotha | I played around a little in Allegro, but never enough to really figure out how to do much of anything. The interface seemed even weirder than PADS |
| 00:08.27 | pingbat | i would imagine that weird could be good given time |
| 00:10.11 | MonMotha | dunno |
| 00:10.28 | MonMotha | I consider PADS "weird", and I've never managed to find it "good" even though I used it for several months |
| 00:11.28 | pingbat | it's an odd activity |
| 00:12.07 | MonMotha | one thing I like about the Altium product is that everything is available both via menus and short hotkey sequences that correspond to the menus |
| 00:12.21 | MonMotha | makes it easy to find something you don't use often or that is new to you, but the hotkey sequence is then immediately obvious |
| 00:12.49 | MonMotha | PADS has this "modeless command" dialog that is rather intimidating and difficult to "explore" |
| 00:14.03 | pingbat | do you mean that the hotkey sequence is next to the menu option ala OSX |
| 00:14.26 | MonMotha | kinda |
| 00:14.49 | MonMotha | basically it's like the standard windows "alt+X" to get to a menu option with hotkey "X", but they've removed the requirement for alt |
| 00:14.58 | MonMotha | and the hotkeys tend to be something you can remember |
| 00:15.02 | MonMotha | p for place, then p for part |
| 00:15.07 | MonMotha | j for jump, l for location |
| 00:15.12 | MonMotha | j for jump, c for component |
| 00:15.16 | MonMotha | things like that |
| 00:15.46 | pingbat | i saw another layout editor that was an alternative to PCB, open source, 'innovative' human interface design |
| 00:15.53 | pingbat | that sounds good |
| 00:15.53 | MonMotha | anything on what would be the current context menu is a single key, then you can go deeper if you want (and it actually displays the menu to you) |
| 00:16.32 | MonMotha | the old CAD software often has a lot of idioms that make no sense on modern UIs. Designer tends to be mostly what you'd expect. |
| 00:17.02 | MonMotha | Designer is what was known as Protel DXP back in ~2002-2003. DXP was a complete rewrite of Protel 99SE with some stuff borrowed from P-CAD, so it's fairly "new". |
| 00:17.11 | MonMotha | OrCAD and PADS haven't seen major changes since the mid-90s |
| 00:17.30 | MonMotha | I can get OrCAD to bring up a Win3.1 style file picker dialog :) |
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| 00:34.43 | betanull | anyone familiar with exactly which packages are required to be able to compile a kernel from source? |
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| 00:48.01 | davidc__ | MonMotha: I think I'm gonna buy me one of those "gamer" keyboards |
| 00:48.09 | davidc__ | MonMotha: that have like 20 keys all reachable without moving one hand |
| 00:48.16 | davidc__ | MonMotha: and can be programmed with key macros |
| 00:52.31 | pingbat | like an Optimus Maximus keyboard? |
| 00:52.50 | davidc__ | pingbat: heh, not that fancy |
| 00:53.31 | pingbat | you can dream though... |
| 00:53.45 | prpplague^2 | ho ho hum |
| 00:53.49 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ hows biz? |
| 00:54.08 | davidc__ | prpplague: keepin busy |
| 00:54.19 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ dandy |
| 00:54.22 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: Moving my design environment to altium |
| 00:54.33 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ OH |
| 00:54.40 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ you purchase a copy? |
| 00:54.52 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: going to be in a few days |
| 00:54.57 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ we have a new channel |
| 00:55.05 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ ##AltiumDesigner |
| 00:55.06 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: just evaluating it right now, but it certainly beats the pants of eagle |
| 00:55.16 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ ahh you get the 30 day eval? |
| 00:55.27 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: yeah, I got sold on it in 2 days :P |
| 00:55.33 | prpplague^2 | i've got it just have installed it yet |
| 00:55.50 | davidc__ | haha, you bought a $5k piece of software but haven't installed it? :P |
| 00:56.03 | prpplague^2 | naw the 30 day eval |
| 00:57.07 | davidc__ | ah. It seems pretty awesome, especially since I'm coming from eagle |
| 00:57.22 | davidc__ | I have a 3-BGA design coming up |
| 00:57.24 | davidc__ | with tons of diff pairs all over the place |
| 00:57.28 | davidc__ | and I really don't feel like dealing with eagle for it |
| 00:57.53 | prpplague^2 | indeed |
| 00:58.12 | prpplague^2 | i'm really interested in the annotation features |
| 01:00.14 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: what cad environment are you coming from? |
| 01:00.48 | prpplague^2 | gEDA->eagle->orcad+pads |
| 01:01.27 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: ah. I was considering going eagle->gEDA, but it looks like I can do everything I want with altium, and the PCB design tools are really awesome |
| 01:01.47 | prpplague^2 | $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
| 01:01.53 | prpplague^2 | thats the big thing |
| 01:02.03 | prpplague^2 | trying to decide on the money |
| 01:03.15 | davidc__ | yeah, its expensive |
| 01:03.22 | davidc__ | but I figure it makes me productive enough to be worth it |
| 01:03.35 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: what did you do the hammer in? |
| 01:04.05 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ rusty and i did it in orcad+pads |
| 01:04.34 | davidc__ | ah. I'd be interested in hearing how the altium PCB layout tools compare to PADS |
| 01:04.34 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ i'm really a newbie in alot ways on the hardware side |
| 01:04.56 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ yea i soon finished with this project, so i'll have time to tinker |
| 01:05.22 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ i'm interested in how they import existing orcad and pads projects |
| 01:06.04 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ advanced circuits has been pushing their new project app |
| 01:06.56 | davidc__ | hmm? |
| 01:07.17 | prpplague^2 | one sec, let me get the url |
| 01:07.22 | davidc__ | oh, their PCB artist thing? |
| 01:07.45 | prpplague^2 | http://www.pulsonix.com/ |
| 01:08.05 | prpplague^2 | they've taken gEDA and had a design firm working on it for about 18 months |
| 01:08.39 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ they have a free trial |
| 01:09.07 | prpplague^2 | i almost felt like doing a comprehensive article on the leading eda stuff |
| 01:09.21 | davidc__ | erm, if they took geda, then why isn't it open source :P |
| 01:10.04 | pingbat | isn't geda GPL |
| 01:10.08 | davidc__ | it is. |
| 01:10.21 | prpplague^2 | iirc there was dual license item for the core bits ages ago |
| 01:10.29 | prpplague^2 | before it went full gpl |
| 01:10.40 | prpplague^2 | not 100% i had planned to look at it |
| 01:14.07 | pingbat | i dual screen support a feature? |
| 01:14.22 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: one good thing I found in altium is that you can save every doc type to an ascii based format |
| 01:14.30 | davidc__ | [the format is pretty obvious] |
| 01:15.21 | prpplague^2 | nice |
| 01:16.11 | davidc__ | yeah, thats a huge one for me |
| 01:16.21 | davidc__ | It also can connect to any OLE in-house component database |
| 01:16.28 | davidc__ | and version the component libraries by git. |
| 01:16.29 | prpplague^2 | OH |
| 01:16.31 | prpplague^2 | that is nice |
| 01:19.24 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ so much to learn so little time |
| 01:19.39 | davidc__ | erm, version the component libraries by SVN |
| 01:19.40 | davidc__ | not git |
| 01:19.45 | davidc__ | I was gonna say I wish it could do git |
| 01:19.48 | *** part/#edev pingbat (n=pingbat@188-220-33-191.zone11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 01:22.17 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ yea i'd love to have so good means of revision control with the projects |
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| 01:26.18 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ actually if you have time, i'd love to get your feedback on some my latest work |
| 01:31.57 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: oh, certainly |
| 01:31.59 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: link? |
| 01:32.55 | prpplague^2 | i'll have to prep the files at the office and forward them to you |
| 01:33.07 | pingbat | are there many realtime people here |
| 01:33.15 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: sure. |
| 01:33.16 | prpplague^2 | pingbat not too manyh |
| 01:33.27 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ orcard project files or you want pdfs? |
| 01:33.43 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: I have nothing to open orcad stuff, though altium might import it. PDFs would be better |
| 01:34.07 | prpplague^2 | good deal |
| 01:34.21 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ i'll prep them and get them to you tomorrow |
| 01:34.35 | davidc__ | kk, I should be on |
| 01:34.42 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ just remeber i'm a software guy turned hardware |
| 01:35.10 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ actually if you are going to be on for a few more, i'll run to the office |
| 01:35.21 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: I'm on for at least 3 hours |
| 01:35.26 | davidc__ | prpplague^2: but no rush |
| 01:35.26 | prpplague^2 | ahh dandy |
| 01:35.36 | davidc__ | I'll be on tomorrow too :) |
| 01:35.44 | prpplague^2 | checks with the _real_ boss |
| 01:36.26 | prpplague^2 | doh |
| 01:36.32 | prpplague^2 | is under house arrest |
| 01:36.46 | prpplague^2 | davidc__ i'll get you the pdf's tomorrow |
| 01:37.45 | calculus | heh, _real_ boss... I know who that is |
| 01:38.08 | davidc__ | heh, no worries |
| 01:38.11 | davidc__ | I'll be on tomorrow too |
| 01:38.12 | pingbat | night all |
| 01:38.31 | prpplague^2 | if anyone is interested, you can see a history of my wife's family coming to barbados - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8da_1247177790 |
| 01:39.26 | Mirell | Hmm... |
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| 01:44.55 | prpplague^2 | let me tell ya, 300 years ain't done nothing to smooth out that scotish temper and drinking tendensies |
| 01:46.19 | wmat | prpplague^2: my wife would agree |
| 01:46.28 | pingbat | :-O |
| 01:46.49 | prpplague^2 | wmat hehe |
| 01:47.07 | prpplague^2 | wmat which one of you are from scotland? |
| 01:53.18 | wmat | i'm 1st generation born in canada, but my parents and half of my siblings were born in scotland |
| 01:53.43 | wmat | my wife's about 4th generation canadian, but of scotch decent |
| 02:02.48 | prpplague^2 | ahh dandy |
| 02:02.56 | prpplague^2 | wmat you'll love that documentary then |
| 02:03.20 | pingbat | hmm |
| 02:04.11 | prpplague^2 | pingbat ?? |
| 02:04.25 | pingbat | pingbat: pp |
| 02:04.39 | pingbat | sorry |
| 02:04.46 | pingbat | wrong chan |
| 02:05.30 | wmat | prpplague^2: watching it now |
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| 02:29.09 | betanull | anyone familiar with exactly which packages are required to be able to compile a kernel from source? |
| 02:29.26 | betanull | i'm tyring to create a toolchain capable of compiling a kernel from source |
| 03:02.43 | betanull | i'm trying to create a toolchain that is capable of compiling a kernel from source. i've seen the work landley did on impact linux but does anyone know exactly which packages are required to get a kernel compiled? |
| 03:08.11 | wmat | betanull: http://www.digitalhermit.com/linux/Kernel-Build-HOWTO.html#SOFTWARE-REQUIREMENTS |
| 03:11.24 | wmat | betanull: the README in the source tree is your best resource though, I think |
| 03:17.07 | betanull | ok. thx |
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| 05:30.04 | Mirell | Urgh. |
| 05:30.14 | Mirell | Not looking forward to the cleanup I'll have to do tomorrow... |
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| 06:01.25 | davidc__ | yo MonMotha - you mentioned some weird Pascal interface for altium? |
| 06:06.53 | MonMotha | davidc__: yeah, there's a scripting/programming API for it that IIRC has Pascal bindings |
| 06:07.29 | MonMotha | heh, I think Altium should give me a free copy for all the sales I seem to have gotten them here |
| 06:08.01 | davidc__ | MonMotha: found it - DelphiScript |
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| 06:08.10 | davidc__ | MonMotha: btw, how do you do ultra-high-pincount schematic symbols? |
| 06:08.14 | davidc__ | MonMotha: just create it by hand? |
| 06:08.48 | MonMotha | davidc__: currently yes, but I've been attempting to automate it somehow |
| 06:09.03 | MonMotha | it is at least nice enough to increment pin number and Xn for you |
| 06:09.11 | davidc__ | MonMotha: we should talk then; I'm going to be automating it sometime |
| 06:09.35 | MonMotha | just creating all the pins in some reasonable order so that I can place them on the symbol blocks would be nice |
| 06:09.35 | davidc__ | Ive got a 700ball BGA that I'm not looking forward to doing by hand |
| 06:09.41 | MonMotha | yeah, I wouldn't either |
| 06:09.54 | davidc__ | exactly |
| 06:10.02 | MonMotha | I did a 144QFP by hand, and I wasn't overly happy to do it |
| 06:10.09 | davidc__ | looks like I can do it from within the scripting language, either that or I'll figure out how to generate one of formats that I can import |
| 06:10.18 | MonMotha | I did a 384BGA at my old job. Took like 2 hours. |
| 06:11.09 | MonMotha | the scripting language looks pretty powerful |
| 06:11.09 | davidc__ | it does; and they talk about some Altium API or something, but its in beta and you need a beta login |
| 06:11.13 | MonMotha | I see |
| 06:11.16 | MonMotha | probably C/C++ bindings |
| 06:11.19 | MonMotha | or maybe .NET |
| 06:11.30 | davidc__ | eh, I could deal with either |
| 06:11.48 | MonMotha | I never really looked into the scripting stuff. I've always been more hardware oriented |
| 06:12.00 | MonMotha | so I don't usually have the expertise to quickly bang out a script |
| 06:12.11 | MonMotha | depends on what I'm doing |
| 06:12.28 | MonMotha | I wrote a big BOM management/procurement system at my old job. It was ugly (code wise), but it worked |
| 06:12.46 | davidc__ | heh, well I'll trade you; you keep feeding me shortcuts + tips in altium, and I'll make sure my script works in your environment |
| 06:13.02 | MonMotha | cool |
| 06:13.05 | MonMotha | will do |
| 06:13.17 | MonMotha | I used it for like 2 years, so I know it pretty well |
| 06:13.39 | davidc__ | MonMotha: used, as in you stopped using it? |
| 06:13.45 | davidc__ | Oh right, you left that job; right right |
| 06:13.45 | MonMotha | I lost the job I used it at :) |
| 06:13.58 | MonMotha | job I had in the interim used OrCAD+PADS, but I didn't do CAD work |
| 06:14.02 | davidc__ | I'm just on the lookout for caveats |
| 06:14.09 | davidc__ | given that its a hefty chunk of change |
| 06:14.18 | MonMotha | yeah, it's not "cheap", but it's at least not "expensive" |
| 06:14.39 | MonMotha | at least as far as ECAD packages go |
| 06:14.52 | davidc__ | yeah. I figure for what I'll get, it won't be that bad |
| 06:15.09 | davidc__ | eh; if this first design I'm doing sells 200 copies, I can write off most of the price |
| 06:15.34 | MonMotha | I'd like to get a copy for myself, but work is offering to buy it, and I'd like to not spend that kind of cash right now, so I'll let them |
| 06:16.17 | davidc__ | completely understandable |
| 06:16.32 | davidc__ | I work for myself, so my attempts to get work to buy it are somewhat recursive |
| 06:18.02 | MonMotha | heh, indeed |
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| 18:09.55 | chouimat | morning |
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| 22:44.15 | zoobab_ | hi |
| 22:44.21 | zoobab_ | does anybody has experience with urjtag here? |
| 22:47.46 | roxfan | i tried to use it once, not sure if i can call that "experience" |
| 22:47.58 | roxfan | but why don't you ask the actual question? |
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| 23:02.51 | florian | zoobab_: I have used it several times |
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| 23:07.45 | pingbat | hello |
| 23:07.54 | florian | hi pingbat |
| 23:07.58 | pingbat | i'm having trouble with some interrupts |
| 23:08.35 | pingbat | trying to get an 8kHz interrupt btu it just isn't working |
| 23:09.47 | pingbat | is it common for interrupts not to trigger when then time between them is too short? |
| 23:10.18 | pingbat | if being driven by a timer match |
| 23:10.33 | SpeedEvil | no - strictly. |
| 23:10.50 | SpeedEvil | but it won't trigger - usually - if you are still in the ISR |
| 23:11.08 | SpeedEvil | unless you've unmasked it - but then you need reentrant handlers |
| 23:11.22 | SpeedEvil | might your ISR ever take more than 125us? |
| 23:11.35 | pingbat | i guess it's possible |
| 23:11.41 | pingbat | is the memory is really slow |
| 23:11.48 | pingbat | but i doubt it |
| 23:12.50 | pingbat | if it did, the match would still trigger a new interrupt and then reset the clock |
| 23:12.54 | pingbat | so .. |
| 23:13.32 | SpeedEvil | It depends on the ISR |
| 23:13.37 | SpeedEvil | Adn the chip |
| 23:13.45 | SpeedEvil | and how you reenable interrtups |
| 23:13.51 | SpeedEvil | what are you doing in the ISR? |
| 23:14.30 | pingbat | reading from the adc |
| 23:14.42 | pingbat | writing to an array |
| 23:15.29 | SpeedEvil | do you have code viewable somewhere? |
| 23:15.29 | pingbat | and doing a check to make sure i am writing into the array |
| 23:16.39 | pingbat | http://pastebin.com/m6036c9fc |
| 23:16.48 | pingbat | bit of a mess |
| 23:19.05 | *** join/#edev bsdfox (n=h36sa@unaffiliated/bsdfox) |
| 23:21.57 | pingbat | the RAM could be slowing it down that much i guess but i think it's unlikely |
| 23:22.04 | *** join/#edev MonMotha (n=monmotha@cpe-65-29-71-209.indy.res.rr.com) |
| 23:23.57 | *** join/#edev MonMotha (n=monmotha@cpe-65-29-71-209.indy.res.rr.com) |
| 23:31.53 | SpeedEvil | which timer is the voice? |
| 23:33.34 | pingbat | Timer0 |
| 23:35.50 | pingbat | main stops executing after i enable Timer0 |
| 23:36.08 | pingbat | hang on |
| 23:36.14 | pingbat | seems to be running now |
| 23:36.18 | SpeedEvil | sprintf can be _huge_ |
| 23:37.19 | pingbat | yeah but not using it during the Timer0 ISR |
| 23:37.49 | SpeedEvil | that code seems to simply print the time - not get any audio |
| 23:38.24 | pingbat | the Timer0 ISR is what records and plays the audio |
| 23:38.36 | pingbat | by calling Play or Record |
| 23:39.46 | MonMotha | what arch is this? |
| 23:40.16 | pingbat | ? |
| 23:40.23 | pingbat | umm, ARM7tdmi-s |
| 23:40.26 | MonMotha | ok |
| 23:41.57 | SpeedEvil | you don't need an explicit return from int after play or record? |
| 23:42.43 | pingbat | sorry? |
| 23:43.15 | pingbat | playing and recording are int global variables that i set using JoystickISR |
| 23:43.40 | SpeedEvil | no - I mean you don't need an explicit return from the ISR |
| 23:43.49 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 23:43.51 | pingbat | no the ISR must return void |
| 23:44.07 | pingbat | and no return statement is needed |
| 23:44.12 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 23:46.04 | pingbat | are you familiar with the ARM7 VIC ? |
| 23:47.17 | roxfan | vic is not a standard feature of arm7 |
| 23:47.25 | roxfan | i guess you have an lpc |
| 23:47.25 | pingbat | really? |
| 23:47.29 | pingbat | yeah |
| 23:48.27 | pingbat | i got some Luminary LM3S9B95 in the post today |
| 23:48.31 | pingbat | quite exciting |
| 23:49.24 | pingbat | by switching the interrupt to IRQ (slow interrupt) from FIQ (fast interrupt) i have the thing running |
| 23:49.45 | pingbat | but the ISR doesn't seem to be |
| 23:50.00 | pingbat | as in main executes |
| 23:50.12 | pingbat | but the ISR doesn't |
| 23:51.16 | roxfan | check your startup file, usually it sets up vic to handle only irqs |
| 23:51.27 | roxfan | not sure if it even supports fiq |
| 23:51.45 | pingbat | it's in the manual |
| 23:52.49 | roxfan | hmm indeed it does |
| 23:53.40 | roxfan | so you changed VICIntSelect setup? |
| 23:53.44 | pingbat | yep |
| 23:55.53 | pingbat | both IRQ and FIQ versions of it seem to hang |
| 23:56.17 | roxfan | maybe try turning on a led in the entry |
| 23:56.24 | roxfan | and another at the exit |
| 23:56.35 | roxfan | then you can see where it's stuck at |
| 23:57.10 | pingbat | thanks to a brilliant piece of design, I have to choose between LED or RAM |
| 23:57.14 | pingbat | i nees the RAM |
| 23:57.16 | roxfan | heh |
| 23:59.36 | pingbat | i wish debugging was set up on this board |