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| 00:44.54 | ce_geek | I'm having problems making sense of the kernel compilation. I copied the hammer-config to .config, then I ran "make menuconfig" so I could select the kaweth driver. Before menuconfig, I copied .config to "dot_config_old" so I could do a diff with .config afterwards. The two files are so different. I only expected one thing to change. What am I doing wrong? |
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| 00:57.47 | Dr{Who} | what kernel did you use? also probably use make oldconfig is best |
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| 01:52.37 | ce_geek | Dr{Who}: Well, don't I have to use make menuconfig if I need to select a driver for something like my USB device? |
| 02:10.54 | ce_geek | What makes dropbear start? |
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| 03:20.47 | cajaka | How goes robtoguy? |
| 03:24.22 | RobotGuy | cajaka: OK, I guess |
| 03:30.26 | RobotGuy | Is there a good communications app for KDE? |
| 03:30.47 | RobotGuy | Minicom keeps dumping on me. |
| 03:35.58 | cajaka | Not that I know of. Hows w.a.l.t.e.r. coming along? |
| 03:39.41 | RobotGuy | Pretty well. I am at the point where I can actually start interfacing sensors and stuff and writing software for him now. |
| 03:39.55 | RobotGuy | I got all the servos to run the new arm and gripper. |
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| 03:58.12 | cajaka | So all the hardwares in place and your just left with the fun stuff then |
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| 04:02.56 | cajaka | Err, umm yeah, that was towards RobotGuy |
| 04:04.09 | RobotGuy | Well, I still to find the shaft encoders and mount them to the motors, mount and connect the motor controller, connect the Hammer to everything, etc. |
| 04:04.32 | RobotGuy | I seem to have misplaced the quadrature shaft encoders for the motors. :( |
| 04:05.40 | cajaka | Not good, sorry for the delay finnishing up my taxes |
| 04:06.23 | RobotGuy | I still have to center all the servos and install them into the gripper and arm also. |
| 04:07.10 | RobotGuy | I'm running into some 3.3V <-> 5V interfacing issues. |
| 04:08.22 | cajaka | So far I have managed to avoid that but I don't think I will be able to do it much longer |
| 04:11.35 | RobotGuy | cajaka: It's still largely a 5V world. |
| 04:11.55 | RobotGuy | New chips are 3.3V and lower now. |
| 04:16.15 | cajaka | `yeah that's the problem though, not that there isn |
| 04:16.25 | cajaka | 't alot of tricks with the older pafrts |
| 04:18.34 | MonMotha | it's actually largely a 3.3V world at this point |
| 04:18.44 | cajaka | Ok to many typo's I think its time to call it a night |
| 04:19.56 | MonMotha | last board I did had almost exclusively 3.3V IO. One device with 5V, and I thought about doing some 1.8V IO but decided to just keep it all 3.3V since I could with proper part selection |
| 04:20.18 | MonMotha | there's upsides and downsides to the lower voltage IOs |
| 04:36.49 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Were you here when Sienna and I were debating power for Hammer-RDP? |
| 04:36.54 | MonMotha | I think so |
| 04:37.37 | RobotGuy | I think so too. I've been doing some additional thinking on this and don't think we can get away from dual voltage 3.3V/5V for I/Os. |
| 04:38.45 | RobotGuy | I just sent an e-mail to Dave, Rusty, and Caitlyn about this. Anyone can join in on the design of Hammer-RDP. :) |
| 04:39.07 | MonMotha | the easiest thing to do then is probably buck to 5V and tag a LDO for 3.3V |
| 04:39.24 | MonMotha | unless you really need lots of 3.3V and not much 5V, in which case you buck for 3.3V and just burn the power for the 5V rail |
| 04:39.30 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Keep power coming in as 5V then? |
| 04:39.38 | MonMotha | or you can do a dual output buck, but they tend to exhibit some iffy cross regulation issues |
| 04:39.46 | MonMotha | or you can of course do two buck regulator |
| 04:39.47 | MonMotha | s |
| 04:39.55 | RobotGuy | I think it's going to be the other way around for quite some time - more 5V and less 3.3V |
| 04:40.23 | RobotGuy | Most of the common sensors we use are 5V. |
| 04:40.31 | MonMotha | in that case, take your input "high" voltage (9+) and buck to 5, then use a linear (will probably have to be low dropout, but check specs on your favorite regulator) for the 3.3V rail |
| 04:41.40 | RobotGuy | Yes, up to 9V or a little higher would be acceptable for input voltage. I understand a 7.2V NiMH battery can go up to a bit over 9V at full charge. |
| 04:41.59 | MonMotha | well, you need at least 2.5V of overhead for most buck regulators |
| 04:42.20 | RobotGuy | Hmmmmmm |
| 04:42.32 | MonMotha | if you're going to only have 7.2-9, then use a linear for 5V and a buck for 3.3V |
| 04:42.47 | MonMotha | I was expecting 9-12V |
| 04:43.17 | RobotGuy | It will be more like 4.8V - 9.6V possible for input from batteries. |
| 04:43.31 | MonMotha | in reality, it's all a matter of what kind of efficiency you require and how much power you're willing to burn |
| 04:43.39 | MonMotha | of, it's going from below 5 to above it? |
| 04:43.51 | MonMotha | in that case, you need either a buck-boost (which inverts) or a flyback |
| 04:44.02 | RobotGuy | Well, we commonly use 6V and 7.2V NiMH batteries. |
| 04:44.40 | MonMotha | if you use a LDO for the 5V rail, you can get by with letting Vin go to 5+Vdo |
| 04:44.48 | MonMotha | Vdo is typically ~200mV for an LDO |
| 04:44.53 | RobotGuy | If we jump the input range to 7.2V - 12V would that work better? |
| 04:45.03 | MonMotha | that works nicely with buck regulators, yes |
| 04:45.11 | MonMotha | not so nicely with linears. That's a lot of power to burn |
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| 04:45.26 | MonMotha | at 12V, you're burning more power than you're delivering for a 5V rail |
| 04:45.31 | MonMotha | (with a linear) |
| 04:45.34 | RobotGuy | Would the buck regulators burn a lot of power? |
| 04:45.50 | MonMotha | you can make a 95% efficient buck regulator if you try |
| 04:46.00 | RobotGuy | I just said that to cover the 9.6V upper range we'd be dealing with. |
| 04:46.07 | MonMotha | I've heard of people hitting 99 with effort |
| 04:46.26 | MonMotha | issue is that if you go much below 7, it won't work any more |
| 04:46.50 | RobotGuy | That would make our actual input range be a bit less than 7V to around 9.6V or so. |
| 04:47.04 | RobotGuy | Hmmmm |
| 04:47.12 | MonMotha | most buck controllers can tolerate up to 30 or 40V in |
| 04:47.29 | MonMotha | so upper end is not likely to be a problem with a switch mode solution, and they actually get more efficient at higher Vin |
| 04:48.43 | RobotGuy | That might actually be better for Hammer-RDP because it would allow different batteries to be used, including up to 12V units. Some folks might want to go even higher depending on how their robot is configured. I could see it getting as high as 24V even. |
| 04:49.02 | MonMotha | ok, just remember that it imposes a restriction on low Vin |
| 04:49.12 | MonMotha | 7.2V in might be pushing it for 5V out |
| 04:50.05 | RobotGuy | We may have to raise the bar to 9.6V minimum input for Hammer-RDP then. |
| 04:50.18 | RobotGuy | I belive the R/C folks use 9.6V batteries regularly. |
| 04:50.54 | RobotGuy | They can go as high as 14.4V that I know of. |
| 04:51.25 | MonMotha | 7.2 would probably work |
| 04:51.37 | MonMotha | you'd have to check your controller |
| 04:51.46 | MonMotha | the duty cycle would be high, and some controllers may have stability issues |
| 04:51.50 | RobotGuy | We'd have to do some testing depending on the regulartor uses. |
| 04:53.03 | MonMotha | well, you'll have to come up with some solution |
| 04:53.09 | MonMotha | it's difficult to do without seeing the entire picture |
| 04:53.32 | MonMotha | make up a power budget, put some numbers in for "typical" efficiency or power burn, and see what works for you |
| 04:53.48 | RobotGuy | I've already run up against the 3.3V/5V interfacing issue because I need 5V TTL serial for my servo controller and 3.3V for some sensors and 5V for other sensors. |
| 04:53.52 | MonMotha | linear solutions tend to be smaller and cheaper (unless you need a huge heatsink), but they burn lots of power unnecessarily |
| 04:54.09 | MonMotha | you do know that there exist 3.3V uCs with 5V tolerant IOs? |
| 04:54.14 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Would you be able to advise on power issues? |
| 04:54.16 | MonMotha | they'll only output a 3.3V "high", but that's TTL compliant |
| 04:54.23 | MonMotha | such |
| 04:54.31 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Yes, I know, but Hammer is 3.3V |
| 04:54.40 | RobotGuy | It is not 5V tolerant. |
| 04:54.46 | MonMotha | I see |
| 04:55.01 | MonMotha | unidirectional interfacing is easy, but bi-directional can be touch |
| 04:55.04 | MonMotha | *tough |
| 04:55.15 | MonMotha | especially bidirectional with no direction line, like I2C |
| 04:55.25 | RobotGuy | So we have to protect it somehow also, from people who might put 5V on a 3.3V jumpered input. |
| 04:55.54 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I've already located some bi-dir chips to handle stuff like I2C and SPI. |
| 04:56.04 | MonMotha | well, SPI isn't actually bi-directional |
| 04:56.06 | MonMotha | so it's easy |
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| 04:56.18 | RobotGuy | I3C is the bugger |
| 04:56.25 | RobotGuy | s/I3/I2. |
| 04:56.31 | MonMotha | I2C is always complicated to translate voltage levels on |
| 04:56.40 | MonMotha | for other stuff, look into the 9500XL series of CPLDs from Xilinx |
| 04:56.44 | MonMotha | very flexible, 5V tolerant IO |
| 04:56.50 | MonMotha | and you can put some glue logic in, too |
| 04:56.51 | RobotGuy | I found an 8 pin DIP I can use for testing 3.3V/5V I2C. |
| 04:57.49 | RobotGuy | I don't think we are going to have room on Hammer-RDP for a CPLD. We are going for a 2.3" x 3.0" or so board size like the Lynxmotion SSC-32 and Bot Board II. |
| 04:58.37 | RobotGuy | The level shifting for I2C is going to be left to the end user if they need it. |
| 04:58.48 | MonMotha | these thing are available in TINY packages |
| 04:58.57 | MonMotha | as in "no chance in hell you're hand soldering this" tiny |
| 04:59.15 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: I know. I just need the DIP form so I can test with them and use them for breadboarding. |
| 05:01.57 | RobotGuy | I already have 3.3V and 5V stuff I need to use I2C with though. |
| 05:03.24 | RobotGuy | I suppose we could supply two headers for I2C and make them also jumperable between 3.3V and 5V. Makes sense if we are doing the I/O pins that way. |
| 05:04.21 | RobotGuy | I just thought of something.. The Hammer-RDP is going to compete directly with Virtual COGs. |
| 05:05.07 | RobotGuy | http://www.virtualcogs.com/ |
| 05:22.10 | RobotGuy | Hmmmmm, CPLD.. Facinating. |
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| 05:23.01 | RobotGuy | Oh, wow, the design kit is only $49.00! |
| 05:33.19 | RobotGuy | I need to get that CPLD design kit. :) |
| 05:33.33 | RobotGuy | MonMotha: Thanks for suggesting CPLDs. |
| 05:44.18 | MonMotha | they are frequently used for IO standard translation |
| 05:55.11 | RobotGuy | I've never worked with a CPLD or FPGA before, but I want to learn. |
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| 07:27.19 | [AD]Turbo | hola |
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| 12:26.47 | ferrix | hello all! does does anyone have any hints for running android on n810? I got as far as compiling a kernel that boots but the actual starting process of the android seems to give me a lot of trouble |
| 12:29.27 | ferrix | I followed the OMAP instructions on elinux.org and the N8xx wiki on google code |
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| 14:09.28 | prpplague | sjhill: greetings |
| 14:11.04 | chouimat|work | prpplague: morning and http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Bugs_And_Bureaucracy |
| 14:11.13 | prpplague | looks |
| 14:13.27 | prpplague | chouimat|work: just one more item that makes my case for the current problem plagueing OSS |
| 14:14.54 | chouimat|work | prpplague: KDE used to be fun to program ... now all the stuff I do is for myself because I don't feel like going to all the "marketing and Political craps" that seems to surround the project or any successful OSS project for this matter |
| 14:18.41 | prpplague | i hate /. search , it doesn't ever seem to work for me |
| 14:20.43 | ce_geek | prpplague: Good morning. |
| 14:21.09 | prpplague | ce_geek: greetings, how did you make out last night? |
| 14:24.55 | ce_geek | prpplague: Eh. Somewhat okay. |
| 14:25.09 | prpplague | ce_geek: that doesn't sound too good |
| 14:25.13 | prpplague | ce_geek: what kind of problems? |
| 14:25.19 | ce_geek | prpplague: I compiled a new kernel several times, including one using a .config that GPSFan provided me. |
| 14:25.28 | prpplague | ce_geek: and? |
| 14:25.51 | ce_geek | prpplague: the Kernel compilation went well, it just didn't give me the behavior I wanted. My 3Com USB Network Interface just seems to want to be powered up before the hammer board gets powered. |
| 14:26.11 | prpplague | ce_geek: that is indeed odd |
| 14:26.22 | ce_geek | prpplague: If I plug it into a powered USB hub, it will come up without fail every time the hammer boots. I can disconnect power and reconnect it, and it will come up no problem. |
| 14:26.32 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 14:26.41 | SpeedEvil | If you unload and load modules it doesn't work? |
| 14:26.47 | ce_geek | If it is powered from the hammer board, using the 1A supply provided in the hammer kit, it will not come up. I have to reset the hammer board or otherwise boot it without cycling power. |
| 14:27.06 | prpplague | ce_geek: that is very very odd |
| 14:27.07 | ce_geek | I compiled the Kaweth driver into the kernel so there is no module. |
| 14:27.21 | prpplague | ce_geek: and you email me the make and model of that device so i can order one for testing? |
| 14:27.27 | ce_geek | prpplague: Sure thing |
| 14:27.28 | prpplague | ce_geek: danders@amltd.com |
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| 14:32.03 | SpeedEvil | wiav - I assume you've seen http://www.secinfo.com/dsPu4.tv.htm prpplague? (nothing very new - just someone else they sent a letter to) |
| 14:33.13 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: that for socket communications? |
| 14:33.21 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:33.33 | prpplague | yea seen that |
| 14:33.41 | prpplague | its kind of a non issue now anyway |
| 14:34.02 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 14:34.05 | SpeedEvil | ::/ |
| 14:34.13 | prpplague | atleast for AML |
| 14:34.51 | ce_geek | prpplague: Sent |
| 14:34.54 | ce_geek | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000J47A/sr=8-1/qid=1208270000/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1208270000&sr=8-1&seller= |
| 14:40.14 | ce_geek | Does anyone have one of the 3Com USB ethernet widgets that they use with the hammer? |
| 14:40.53 | ce_geek | prpplague: Hmmn.... is there any way to make the hammer stop booting so fast? What if I wanted it to delay for a few seconds before it booted somehow to give other devices time to wake up and initialize? |
| 14:41.48 | prpplague | ce_geek: just out of curiousity, you might try making the driver as a module, which you can load after the system is booted |
| 14:42.03 | prpplague | ce_geek: i'll pick one up in the next day or so for testing |
| 14:42.10 | CosmicPenguin | this software is too good |
| 14:42.12 | CosmicPenguin | break it |
| 14:42.51 | ce_geek | prpplague: Okay. The module thing seems reasonable. I had it in my head that not having things modular would be simplest at least at first, but I can see where this add some things to try. |
| 14:43.43 | prpplague | ce_geek: usb is a weird one |
| 14:44.20 | ce_geek | prpplague: I haven't done much low level USB stuff, but I've got a friend that dove into it head first with some of the early USB-enabled PIC chips. He had all kinds of thigns to share. |
| 14:45.17 | ce_geek | prpplague: It seems reasonable to me that a device just might require a nonzero amount of time to initialize itself, and if the time it takes the hammer to boot is shorter than the time for the device to initialize and be prepared to talk to a USB host, I can see how that would break. |
| 14:45.47 | ce_geek | prpplague: But if someone has this thing working with their hammer at boot time after a powercycle without a powered USB hub, I want to know how! |
| 14:45.59 | ce_geek | prpplague: Module thing is next. |
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| 14:47.06 | ferrix | anyone familiar with android on N810? |
| 14:47.11 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea, i tend to like to start from a known working point, so if you can get it working with modules, thats a good place for us to start testing |
| 14:47.28 | prpplague | ferrix: there have been alot of questions about that recently |
| 14:48.06 | prpplague | ferrix: however most of android dev for the nokia stuff seems to be centered around omap channels and omap based development board channels |
| 14:48.37 | ferrix | which channels would those be? |
| 14:51.08 | prpplague | ferrix: #omap |
| 14:51.15 | ferrix | oh... silly me :) |
| 14:51.17 | prpplague | ferrix: and #beagle |
| 14:51.21 | prpplague | iirc |
| 14:51.32 | ferrix | #omap on freenode was a dead end |
| 14:59.38 | prpplague | sjhill: ping |
| 15:07.03 | GPSFan | ce_geek: here is my bootup using the kaweth built into my kernel http://pastebin.ca/986093 it is a 3Com 3C19250. The label says it wants 5V @ 300ma. |
| 15:07.50 | ce_geek | prpplague: Grr. Looks like my situation is unique. |
| 15:08.02 | ce_geek | GPSFan: Thanks! |
| 15:08.26 | prpplague | ce_geek: ?? |
| 15:08.30 | GPSFan | ce_geek: np. this is wiht the device plugged directly into the hammer |
| 15:08.45 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:08.46 | prpplague | nm |
| 15:10.18 | ce_geek | Okay, I'm really glad you posted that. I think I just found a place where I need to be more specific. |
| 15:10.41 | ce_geek | I can do exactly what you just did. No problem. I just did it. |
| 15:11.08 | ce_geek | When I was saying that it doesn't "work", what would have been more appropriate would be to say that the device gets initialized, but it's not configured by inittab. |
| 15:11.22 | ce_geek | I have a line in /etc/inittab to configure the ethernet device with an IP address. |
| 15:11.46 | ce_geek | I want to be able to plug in the power and SSH right to it, without having to use minicom to configure the IP address. |
| 15:12.02 | ce_geek | prpplague, GPSFan: Does that change things a little? |
| 15:12.23 | prpplague | ce_geek: probably need to set the ip at the end of the rcS file and not in inittab |
| 15:12.38 | ce_geek | prpplague: rcS file? |
| 15:12.46 | prpplague | ce_geek: /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 15:12.58 | sjhill | prpplague: yeah |
| 15:12.58 | ce_geek | Ya ok just found it. Looking now. |
| 15:13.14 | ce_geek | Okay, what is rcS used for? |
| 15:13.21 | prpplague | sjhill: hey, you seen any alignment problems with 4.1.2 or 4.2.1 ? |
| 15:13.33 | sjhill | not that i can remember, no |
| 15:13.40 | prpplague | ce_geek: basically you can start up scripts in that dir such as network startups |
| 15:13.55 | sjhill | prpplague: what are you seeing? |
| 15:14.05 | ce_geek | What is the syntax? Seems like it'd be different from that of inittab. Just put the line with the ifconfig command in there at the end? |
| 15:14.30 | prpplague | sjhill: i'm getting a weird problem where when i link a bootloader app, everything is shifted 8 bytes |
| 15:14.54 | prpplague | sjhill: definetly a toolchain problem, 3.3.5 compiles the same code with no problems |
| 15:14.59 | GPSFan | ce_geek: that's a userland operation, once you have the kernel working do as prpplague says with a /etc/init.d entry using a static ip at first. |
| 15:15.11 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea |
| 15:15.37 | prpplague | ce_geek: you can either add a network script or jsut add that line to the end of rcS |
| 15:15.58 | ce_geek | http://pastebin.ca/986110 |
| 15:16.01 | ce_geek | Like that? |
| 15:16.05 | prpplague | looks |
| 15:16.38 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea, you might want to specific the netmask as well just to make sure |
| 15:18.51 | GPSFan | prpplague: interesting, I get "udhcpc: socket: Address family not supported by protocol" when I run udhcpc, any thoughts? |
| 15:18.52 | ce_geek | jtaging now. |
| 15:21.29 | ce_geek | No dice :(:(:(:( |
| 15:23.03 | sjhill | prpplague: is the version of binutils the same? |
| 15:23.18 | ce_geek | Hmmn. Taking the line out of inittab now, going to make sure that configuring the IP with rcS works the way inittab has worked so far. |
| 15:23.31 | GPSFan | prpplague: looks like packet support isn't turned on in my kernel. that might explain it. |
| 15:23.43 | sjhill | smacks GPSFan |
| 15:24.12 | GPSFan | whaleslaps self... |
| 15:24.36 | ce_geek | GPSFan: Have you ever tried to automatically configure the ethernet device at boot time? |
| 15:25.48 | GPSFan | ce_geek: that's what I just posted about, udhcpc quieries the dhcp server and automatically sets things up. but not unless packet support is turned on in the kernel. |
| 15:26.02 | ce_geek | GPSFan: Oh you're trying to do it via DHCP? |
| 15:26.48 | ce_geek | I am tempted to put a sleep statement in /etc/init.d/rcS |
| 15:27.40 | ce_geek | I'll bbiab, I need to get some food in my stomache before class. |
| 15:27.40 | prpplague | ce_geek: give me a shout when you get back |
| 15:27.49 | ce_geek | prpplague: Will do |
| 15:28.43 | *** join/#edev RobotGuy (n=robotguy@dsl093-038-072.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:30.13 | *** join/#edev magnetron (n=magnetro@unaffiliated/magnetron) |
| 15:34.09 | sjhill | prpplague: is your version of binutils the same between your two toolchains? |
| 15:34.42 | prpplague | iirc there are, but let me double check |
| 15:36.14 | prpplague | sjhill: nope i have 2.16 on one and 2.17 on the other |
| 15:36.30 | prpplague | sjhill: 2.17.0.50 to be exact |
| 15:36.52 | prpplague | arg, sorry typo 2.17.50.0.17 |
| 15:37.11 | prpplague | rebuilds with 2.16 as a test |
| 15:43.43 | sjhill | prpplague: yeah, let's see if that changes things |
| 15:49.12 | prpplague | OT anyone been watching "John Adams" on HBO? |
| 15:49.28 | prpplague | waits for compile to finish |
| 15:50.10 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: yes - it rocks hard |
| 15:50.24 | CosmicPenguin | I'm only up to #4, so no spoilers |
| 15:50.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 15:50.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just a note, they are playing all 7 episodes on sunday |
| 15:51.06 | CosmicPenguin | DVR my good man |
| 15:51.38 | CosmicPenguin | #5 and #6 are awaiting me at home |
| 15:52.09 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:52.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: shows like "John Adams" are exactly why ABC/NBC/CBS have no clue about why they are loosing the general male audiences these days |
| 15:54.08 | CosmicPenguin | I agree |
| 15:55.28 | ce_geek | prpplague: Back for a few min before class |
| 15:56.14 | prpplague | ce_geek: if you have the device plugged in on boot, can you manually configure the device from the prompt? |
| 15:56.19 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: HBO always scores hard - I wish they would do more |
| 15:56.27 | prpplague | indeed |
| 15:56.28 | ce_geek | prpplague: Absolutely. |
| 15:56.30 | prpplague | i love rome |
| 15:56.37 | prpplague | ce_geek: ok so its probably a timing issue |
| 15:56.43 | prpplague | ce_geek: let me see if i can replicate it |
| 15:56.55 | CosmicPenguin | David McCullough also wrote 1776, which would be a fun mini-series as well |
| 15:56.56 | ce_geek | prpplague: With a similar device? |
| 15:57.06 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea, i have kaweath device here |
| 15:57.09 | ce_geek | cool |
| 15:57.11 | CosmicPenguin | And its a great read, if you are interested in revolutionary war |
| 16:01.13 | Crofton | CosmicPenguin, the colonists win! |
| 16:01.37 | CosmicPenguin | again? |
| 16:01.51 | CosmicPenguin | Did they beat the spread? |
| 16:03.17 | chouimat|work | "John Adams"?? |
| 16:03.41 | ce_geek | prpplague: FWIW, I just put "sleep 5" right before my ifconfig statement in /etc/init.d/rcS, and it works |
| 16:04.48 | ce_geek | prpplague: Seems like a bit of a hack, but it works! |
| 16:05.16 | ce_geek | prpplague: And i got the dropbear keys copied into the target skeleton so I don't have to wait for those to get generated every time it boots. In a matter of seconds now, it will boot and I can SSH right to it. Finally. |
| 16:05.29 | ce_geek | prpplague: I've got to run to class, but I'm interested in your feedback about this. |
| 16:11.51 | prpplague | chouimat|work: John Adams was one of the "founding fathers" of the US and 2nd president of the US |
| 16:12.02 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I see ... |
| 16:12.09 | prpplague | chouimat: there has been a new miniseries on HBO convering his life |
| 16:12.29 | chouimat|work | prpplague: was interesting? |
| 16:13.02 | prpplague | chouimat|work: very, the end of the series is this coming sunday |
| 16:13.22 | ce_geek | prpplague: SWEET I got out of class. |
| 16:13.28 | chouimat|work | prpplague: I'm currently enjoying the current season of doctor who |
| 16:14.38 | prpplague | ce_geek: hehe |
| 16:14.48 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea, i figured it was a timing issue |
| 16:15.10 | ce_geek | prpplague: So does this mean that the USB device just isn't ready to be configured when the hammer tries to do so? |
| 16:15.36 | prpplague | ce_geek: seems so |
| 16:16.28 | prpplague | ce_geek: what you can do is create a small script that waits for eth0 to come up and then configure it, add the call for that script to inittab |
| 16:17.23 | ce_geek | prpplague: Hmmn. Not sure how I'd go about that, haven't done a lot of clever little scripts in a while. Basically check the output of ifconfig -a and look for eth0? |
| 16:17.33 | prpplague | ce_geek: one sec |
| 16:18.23 | adyer | prpplague: can't upi do that stuff with the hotplug system? |
| 16:18.38 | adyer | s/upi/you/ |
| 16:20.20 | GPSFan | ce_geek: turning on packet support fixed the udhcpc problem, now it gets an IP address etc from my server. http://www.pastebin.ca/986163 |
| 16:21.10 | prpplague | adyer: yes you can, but its fairly bulky imho |
| 16:21.41 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.51.70.190) |
| 16:24.21 | prpplague | ce_geek: quick and dirty - http://www.pastebin.ca/986167 |
| 16:25.21 | prpplague | sjhill: not the binutils |
| 16:28.07 | ce_geek | prpplague: Shell scripts always look funny when compared to C |
| 16:30.36 | ce_geek | prpplague: What does &1 end up being? Is that all the stuff sent to STDERR? |
| 16:33.10 | prpplague | ce_geek: yea that redirects the stderr to stdout which is redirected to /dev/null |
| 16:33.20 | prpplague | ce_geek: just a way to keep the output quiet |
| 16:34.21 | ce_geek | prpplague: What is '$?' |
| 16:35.18 | prpplague | ce_geek: that gives you the result code from the last command you executed |
| 16:35.45 | prpplague | ce_geek: in this case ifconfig eth0 results in an error of "1" when called with out eth0 being present |
| 16:35.45 | ce_geek | prpplague: Okay. I use !$ a lot for last argument passed |
| 16:36.03 | ce_geek | prpplague: Cool. |
| 16:36.16 | ce_geek | prpplague: I never learned the little shell scripting tricks. |
| 16:36.37 | CosmicPenguin | man bash is always instructive |
| 16:37.04 | ce_geek | Instructive? |
| 16:37.40 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: way too long and hard to find anything IMHO |
| 16:39.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe landley is going to give andrew morton a nail board |
| 16:39.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: wonder if it will end up in a pile |
| 16:39.53 | CosmicPenguin | nah - he's cool about that |
| 16:40.08 | CosmicPenguin | you have to get over your attitude that all kernel developers are out to get you |
| 16:41.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: naw, i just figured he got lots of gadgets, and ours would just be another one |
| 16:41.28 | RobotGuy | kernel 2.6.25-rc9-hammer seems to be working very well for me. :) |
| 16:41.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: omg, we have 144 geode boards in stock |
| 16:41.46 | prpplague | RobotGuy: good deal |
| 16:42.00 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: not selling, huh? |
| 16:42.08 | prpplague | checks |
| 16:42.12 | CosmicPenguin | I blame me - our drivers have been sucking it up lately |
| 16:43.13 | prpplague | not too bad we sold 20 last week |
| 16:43.18 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: Geode was a disaster from day 1 when it was a cyrix product |
| 16:43.20 | RobotGuy | Sucky drivers and software can really kill excellent hardware. |
| 16:44.04 | prpplague | adyer: disaster only in the aspect they didn't market it to the right people |
| 16:44.28 | RobotGuy | Link to the geode board? |
| 16:45.06 | adyer | prpplague: no, lots of part revisions, secret incompatible bios changes, mystery boards revs., the usual x86 crapola |
| 16:45.58 | adyer | prpplague: if it runs windows, ship it! |
| 16:46.01 | CosmicPenguin | Since I happen to write most of those drivers - thank you much for the self-esteem boost |
| 16:46.19 | RobotGuy | I wish somebody would support development of a *NIX version of RoboRealm |
| 16:46.24 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: nah, this was before even Nat. semi. had bought it |
| 16:47.26 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: of course, it so soured me on ever using that stuff that I am highly prejudiced about looking at it again |
| 16:47.42 | prpplague | RobotGuy: what link are you wanting? |
| 16:47.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: To the geode board that is referenced. |
| 16:48.11 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not available to the general public |
| 16:48.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: b2b |
| 16:48.19 | RobotGuy | It figures. :( |
| 16:48.44 | prpplague | adyer: indeed, which is what i meant about wrong target, it was the OSS groups that really wanted the geode |
| 16:50.09 | *** join/#edev magnetron_ (n=magnetro@c-bd65e455.018-374-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 16:50.14 | RobotGuy | I have 2.6 MB available on the flash now. |
| 16:50.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: maybe 1% of the work we do is ever seen on our website for general public |
| 16:51.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: It still pretty much sucks though, because a lot of that stuff could probably be used in other areas also if it was marketed right. |
| 16:52.25 | RobotGuy | (and priced appropriately for the markets) |
| 16:52.32 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea well $$ is a factor |
| 16:52.43 | prpplague | RobotGuy: price of these are pretty darn high |
| 16:53.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yeah, I know the prices are probably high. It's always about the all mighty dollar. :( |
| 16:53.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: i doubt you want to pay > $2k for a geode board |
| 16:53.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Of course not, but I bet the geode doesn't have to cost that much. |
| 16:54.15 | RobotGuy | It would be nice to have a small form factor x86 compatible board to tinker with. |
| 16:54.28 | SpeedEvil | OLPC |
| 16:54.34 | CosmicPenguin | I pointed you to a number of them a few days ago |
| 16:54.48 | RobotGuy | I lost the links. :(:( |
| 16:55.05 | RobotGuy | I didn't get them bookmarked. :( |
| 16:55.21 | adyer | CosmicPenguin: wasn't AMD clearing out some Geode based dev. kits a few months ago - looked sort of like a green plastic lunchbox |
| 16:55.23 | CosmicPenguin | http://wwwd.amd.com/catalog/salescat.nsf/shop?openform |
| 16:55.34 | CosmicPenguin | That is our entire embedded catalog |
| 16:56.07 | prpplague | adyer: yea there was someone that had 4 for $99 |
| 16:56.17 | prpplague | adyer: amd PIC's |
| 16:59.48 | RobotGuy | Thanks |
| 17:05.37 | RobotGuy | I love it when the product page links are broken. |
| 17:21.34 | RobotGuy | installed the Xilinx ISE 10.1 package |
| 17:22.13 | RobotGuy | Do geode boards have to be so expensive, or is it a marketing thing? |
| 17:27.02 | SpeedEvil | Low volume boards are expensive. |
| 17:29.30 | RobotGuy | Marketing to different areas could potentially increase volume and allow prices to be lowered. |
| 17:30.50 | adyer | RobotGuy: if your expectations are set by the PC motherboard market, you're going to be disappointed |
| 17:31.19 | RobotGuy | adyer: I have no expectations of anything. |
| 17:31.59 | CosmicPenguin | That not true - you expect the boards to be less expensive |
| 17:32.51 | RobotGuy | CosmicPenguin: No, I am disappointed that the prices are so high. What is the REAL difference between a PC/104 SBC and a regular PC motherboard using the same CPU? |
| 17:33.48 | RobotGuy | Personally, if I were to go to an x86 board for a robot, I'd rather have a PC/104 board than a regular PC style motherboard. |
| 17:34.25 | RobotGuy | But then, I'd love to have a Technologic TS-7800 too - fantastic feature set. |
| 17:35.17 | CosmicPenguin | So your expectations are set by the motherboard market |
| 17:35.57 | RobotGuy | I asked a question. |
| 17:36.03 | CosmicPenguin | The prices they charge are set by the expectations in a different space |
| 17:36.12 | CosmicPenguin | and that space bears out charging much higher prices |
| 17:36.39 | RobotGuy | It just means buyers expect to pay more, right? |
| 17:36.48 | RobotGuy | Or that they are willing to pay more. |
| 17:37.22 | CosmicPenguin | Probably both - you have to give the business guys some credit - if the market expected them to charge less, presumably they would charge less |
| 17:38.01 | RobotGuy | So it's just really a marketing thing then, afterall. Has little to do with actual manufacturing costs. |
| 17:38.11 | CosmicPenguin | I didn't say that |
| 17:38.28 | CosmicPenguin | Much of the price is cost |
| 17:38.57 | CosmicPenguin | The BOM isn't the only thing in the project that takes money |
| 17:39.12 | RobotGuy | If they could sell more, they could make more, but I doubt that would affect the price they sell for. |
| 17:39.14 | cbrake | CosmicPenguin: what is the high level diff between the Geode GX, NX, and LX -- are they all based on the same basic architecture? |
| 17:39.14 | CosmicPenguin | And when you only build a few thousand boards, the price of the engineering has to be passed on somewhere |
| 17:39.42 | CosmicPenguin | cbrake: no - the NX is a rebranded Athlon |
| 17:42.25 | RobotGuy | If the manufacturing quantities were the same, would the price of a PC/104 board and a comparable PC style board be the same or very close? |
| 17:42.35 | CosmicPenguin | yes |
| 17:42.48 | CosmicPenguin | PC/104 might even be a little bit cheaper |
| 17:42.57 | CosmicPenguin | But the manufacturing quantities will *NEVER* be the same |
| 17:43.09 | RobotGuy | I'd love to have a PC/104 x86 type board. |
| 17:43.17 | CosmicPenguin | a standard PC motherboard has runs in the hundreds of thousands |
| 17:43.26 | RobotGuy | I know. |
| 17:44.17 | RobotGuy | I have Python and SQLite on my Hammer's flash now. :) |
| 17:45.03 | RobotGuy | Plus the XML2 library |
| 17:48.06 | RobotGuy | . /dev/mtdblock1 14.8M 12.2M 2.6M 83% / |
| 17:48.16 | cbrake | CosmicPenguin: so in OE, is TARGET_ARCH = "i486" about all that is need to build for the Geode LX? |
| 17:48.33 | CosmicPenguin | sort of |
| 17:48.37 | CosmicPenguin | you could use a decent kernel |
| 17:48.49 | CosmicPenguin | but i486 would build you something that booted |
| 17:48.58 | CosmicPenguin | I have a host of patches that I need to send upstream |
| 17:50.46 | cbrake | CosmicPenguin: ok, I'll start with the generic x86 machine then -- thanks |
| 17:51.16 | CosmicPenguin | let me know if you need a kernel config - I'll send you what i have |
| 17:51.42 | cbrake | CosmicPenguin: sure, would be great to have a starting point: cbrake@bec-systems.com |
| 17:52.02 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Is there any code availalbe for accessing the SD/MMC? |
| 17:53.02 | CosmicPenguin | cbrake: done |
| 17:53.11 | cbrake | CosmicPenguin: many thanks! |
| 18:06.56 | cbrake | CosmicPenguin: when was the Geode LX introduced? |
| 18:08.03 | CosmicPenguin | 2006 |
| 18:08.04 | CosmicPenguin | I think |
| 18:08.34 | CosmicPenguin | Its hard to remember, we were validating it long before that |
| 18:15.08 | steliosk | cbrake : there is a geode lx target |
| 18:15.53 | steliosk | cbrake : see alix |
| 18:16.32 | cbrake | steliosk: ahh, much better -- I missed that one |
| 18:16.39 | cbrake | should learn to grep ... |
| 18:25.36 | prpplague | returns from lunch |
| 18:26.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 2.6.25-rc9 should support accessing sd/mmc via spi on the s3c2410, but it would need to be configured |
| 18:26.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK |
| 18:26.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Configured as in the driver? |
| 18:27.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea, as well as define which spi port and pins your are using |
| 18:27.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: when 2.6.25 is released i'll post a patch |
| 18:28.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK. I don't have an MMC/SD card now anyways, so it can wait. I'm just thinking an SD/MMC card would be better to use than a thumb drive for aux mass storage. |
| 18:29.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I'm also thinking an SD/MMC slot could easily be added to the Hammer-RDP, even if it has to be on the back of the board like some companies do it. |
| 18:30.08 | prpplague | RobotGuy: micro SD probably |
| 18:30.51 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Size doesn't matter in this case as long as the storage capacity is available. |
| 18:31.01 | prpplague | size always matters |
| 18:31.44 | RobotGuy | I mean that the size of the card doesn't matter as long as the capacity is available. |
| 18:32.36 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the boss is getting ready to start talking about going to production on the sledge hammer |
| 18:32.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: COOL |
| 18:33.28 | prpplague | trying to decide if we want to do the sledge as is or change the formfactor |
| 18:33.31 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Has the RAM/Flash capacity been settled on then? |
| 18:33.40 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no not as of yet |
| 18:34.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: What are the form factor options? |
| 18:34.45 | prpplague | RobotGuy: we could keep it as is, which is 1.75 x 4 |
| 18:34.58 | prpplague | RobotGuy: with 2x40 .1" pins |
| 18:35.38 | prpplague | i really like that form factor |
| 18:35.48 | prpplague | i almost like it better than the hammer |
| 18:36.23 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Same I/O setup as Hammer? |
| 18:36.53 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 40 of the pins would be the same |
| 18:37.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the other 40 would add the remaining lcd lines, rtc power, vdd_alive, and nbatt_fault |
| 18:37.32 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, you mean 2x 40 pins each side? |
| 18:37.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: yea total of 80 pins |
| 18:38.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, that is good! All serial ports and such accessible? I2S? |
| 18:38.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: haven't decided on the i2s |
| 18:38.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Sledge is the s3c2440, right? |
| 18:38.50 | prpplague | RobotGuy: not really sure how many people want a full audio codec on it |
| 18:38.54 | prpplague | RobotGuy: no 2410 |
| 18:39.12 | prpplague | RobotGuy: currently 2410 |
| 18:39.45 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am confused a bit then. I thought Sledge was going to be the 2440. I must have misunderstood. |
| 18:39.53 | prpplague | or i did |
| 18:40.28 | RobotGuy | A Sledge with an s3c2440 would be the cat |
| 18:40.32 | RobotGuy | 's meow |
| 18:40.48 | prpplague | RobotGuy: why's ? just because of the mhz? |
| 18:41.50 | RobotGuy | prpplague: MHz is a factor, yes. It just doesn't make sense to me to have sledge be a 2410 with more I/O available. It would be seen as nothing more than a super hammer. |
| 18:42.12 | RobotGuy | I can't get a 2440 datasheet to compare with the 2410. |
| 18:44.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I love the hammer for it's breadboard friendliness even though I have not used it on a breadboard yet. |
| 18:44.15 | RobotGuy | 0.1" spacing for the win every time! |
| 18:44.42 | RobotGuy | Not having to deal with funky small spaced connectors is a great feature! |
| 18:45.26 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hence the name sledge |
| 18:45.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Do you have a 2440 datasheet? |
| 18:46.06 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Sledge must get more RAM and Flash than Hammer. :) |
| 18:46.30 | prpplague | RobotGuy: the 2440 has a 2410 core, but can run at up to 405mhz and has a few additional options |
| 18:46.53 | RobotGuy | A Sledge with 128/128 would fit all my uses perfectly. |
| 18:47.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I gather the 2440 is not a drop in replacement for the 2410 then. |
| 18:48.29 | RobotGuy | prpplague: A Sledge with the 2440 on a stack board could compete head to head with the Virtual Cogs |
| 18:48.43 | RobotGuy | www.virtualcogs.com |
| 18:48.48 | prpplague | one sec phone |
| 18:49.59 | RobotGuy | It's those dang small spaced headers that put me off wanting a virtual cog. |
| 18:50.35 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:50.47 | prpplague | i should post a pick of our 2440 board |
| 18:51.11 | RobotGuy | You should, even though I know it's not something I could afford. |
| 18:51.47 | prpplague | RobotGuy: actually the 2440 board is pretty reasonable |
| 18:51.56 | prpplague | goes to get a camera |
| 18:52.02 | RobotGuy | smiles |
| 18:53.09 | chouimat|work | waits :) |
| 18:54.49 | RobotGuy | Right now, it's flash I am running short of. |
| 18:57.52 | prpplague | hmm , ok give me a sec to take a couple pics and post them |
| 18:58.06 | RobotGuy | OK |
| 19:14.04 | RobotGuy | Bootup time sure does suck with that rt2x00lib/rt2x00usb requesting firmware I am sure I do not need for the rt73usb driver. |
| 19:18.15 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/JackHammer_Board |
| 19:18.58 | chouimat|work | interesting |
| 19:20.21 | prpplague | thoughts? |
| 19:21.20 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Oh, my! Board size? RAM/Flash? |
| 19:21.30 | chouimat|work | price? |
| 19:21.41 | RobotGuy | Oh yeah, price? ;) |
| 19:22.01 | prpplague | not for sale at the momment |
| 19:22.07 | RobotGuy | Jack is Stackable! |
| 19:22.56 | RobotGuy | I'm bid $1.380! :) :) |
| 19:23.08 | RobotGuy | jokes around |
| 19:23.35 | prpplague | 128mb sdram and 256mb flash |
| 19:23.35 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Speed? |
| 19:23.39 | prpplague | RobotGuy: 405mhz |
| 19:23.54 | RobotGuy | wipes the drool from his face |
| 19:24.03 | chouimat|work | prpplague: definitly interesting |
| 19:24.18 | RobotGuy | prpplague: How big is that JackHammer? |
| 19:24.18 | prpplague | chouimat|work: what aspect of it? |
| 19:24.36 | chouimat|work | 128mb sdram and 256mb flash |
| 19:24.44 | RobotGuy | I mean physical board size |
| 19:24.49 | prpplague | 2 x 2.5 |
| 19:25.16 | RobotGuy | OMG, that is about the size the Hammer-RDP will be. |
| 19:26.01 | RobotGuy | JackHammer has reasonable stacking connectors also. :D:D |
| 19:26.39 | prpplague | i doubt the jackhammer will ever be made available from tct |
| 19:26.58 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Why not? That would be a real shame. |
| 19:27.35 | prpplague | RobotGuy: have to show that we are making money off things at tct |
| 19:27.48 | chouimat|work | :( |
| 19:28.22 | RobotGuy | prpplague: That's sad, but understandable. I great looking and featured board may not even see light of day. :( |
| 19:28.23 | prpplague | chouimat|work: why would you want one? |
| 19:28.37 | prpplague | RobotGuy: you don't know .0005 of the story |
| 19:28.44 | chouimat|work | prpplague: need more toys :) |
| 19:28.47 | prpplague | i have 40+ boards in my office |
| 19:29.14 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I could see a JackHammer with Hammer and/or SledgeHammer slaves in a distributed computing environment for robotics. |
| 19:29.31 | prpplague | seems exccessive |
| 19:29.32 | CosmicPenguin | RobotGuy: you would think differently if it was your money behind the project - I appreciate your anger, but this is not personal, it is business |
| 19:29.49 | chouimat|work | hi CosmicPenguin |
| 19:30.00 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am not angry at all. Just disappointed that these very cool boards may never see production. |
| 19:30.18 | prpplague | RobotGuy: they see production, just not by tct |
| 19:30.24 | prpplague | and made public |
| 19:30.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Yeah, OK. It's still saddening. |
| 19:31.24 | RobotGuy | The coolest and most useful products are never accessible. |
| 19:31.29 | RobotGuy | (to me and those like me) |
| 19:32.31 | prpplague | the problem i have with the jackhammer design for hobbists is the molex connectors, they aren't hacker friendly |
| 19:32.55 | RobotGuy | If I want to interface a 3.3V TTL serial port to a 5V TTL serial device, what do I need? |
| 19:33.54 | RobotGuy | prpplague: True, but the connectors are not unreasonable like what Gumstix and Virtual COGs uses. |
| 19:34.33 | RobotGuy | I am to the point where I can start writing control software for W.A.L.T.E.R. |
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| 19:35.24 | prpplague | RobotGuy: depends on how many ttl lines you need to translate and at what speed |
| 19:36.01 | RobotGuy | prpplague: For my SSC-32 servo controller, two lines, 115200 Bps |
| 19:36.13 | RobotGuy | RX and TX |
| 19:37.56 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Are those Molex connectors on the JackHammer 0.1" spaced? |
| 19:38.05 | prpplague | no |
| 19:38.43 | RobotGuy | It looks like it would not take much of a change to have dual row 0.1" pins on each side. |
| 19:38.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.elinux.org/JackHammer_Board |
| 19:39.01 | prpplague | oops |
| 19:39.04 | prpplague | wrong url |
| 19:39.16 | prpplague | RobotGuy: http://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/RF/BlueSMiRF-Extended_v1.pdf |
| 19:39.34 | prpplague | RobotGuy: for just two lines, thats a good example of basic 3.3v to 5v translation for uart |
| 19:39.52 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. Thanks. |
| 19:41.32 | RobotGuy | I need an appropriate transistor. I have everything else. |
| 19:42.01 | prpplague | iirc the one i used was a mmbt2222 |
| 19:42.07 | RobotGuy | I am always missing some critical component. :( |
| 19:42.10 | prpplague | looks |
| 19:42.52 | RobotGuy | Well, I do have my 3.3V I2C compass and RTC and my 3.3V BT module. |
| 19:43.04 | prpplague | ahh no its a 2n7002 |
| 19:43.41 | adyer | prpplague: 2222 is bipolar :-) wouldn't work so good... |
| 19:44.35 | prpplague | adyer: yea |
| 19:49.10 | RobotGuy | It looks like it would not take much of a change on JackHammer to have dual row 0.1" pins on each side. |
| 19:51.39 | chouimat|work | prpplague: 6,918,096 Method and apparatus for displaying a network of thoughts from a thought's perspective |
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| 20:01.29 | RobotGuy | Hmmmm, no comment on the dual row pins for a JackHammer. Oh well. |
| 20:06.43 | *** join/#edev ce_geek (n=ce_geek@roger-blanchette-4.umelst.maine.edu) |
| 20:10.13 | *** join/#edev prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 20:11.12 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 20:11.14 | prpplague | grumbles |
| 20:11.20 | bsdfox_ | RobotGuy: you know where to buy headers and jumper wires that fit on them? |
| 20:11.39 | RobotGuy | bsdfox_: On what? |
| 20:11.42 | bsdfox_ | I found the wires in a shop and they wanted $38 for 100 2" wires |
| 20:12.04 | bsdfox_ | robot: just standard .1" spacing header pins |
| 20:12.35 | RobotGuy | bsdfox_: I pay 1.50 per 40 pin strip of those. |
| 20:12.42 | RobotGuy | (the pins) |
| 20:12.53 | prpplague | $1.50? you getting gold plated? |
| 20:12.54 | RobotGuy | $1.50 |
| 20:13.03 | prpplague | that seems a little pricy |
| 20:13.04 | bsdfox_ | female side? |
| 20:13.10 | prpplague | male side |
| 20:13.14 | bsdfox_ | ouch |
| 20:13.15 | RobotGuy | I'm talking single row male pins |
| 20:13.23 | bsdfox_ | I got some males for $.75 |
| 20:13.24 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Local seller |
| 20:13.59 | RobotGuy | bsdfox_: female are same price for me, as are the double row male and the right angle double row. |
| 20:14.28 | bsdfox_ | well.. anyone know about the jumper wires? |
| 20:14.45 | RobotGuy | bsdfox_: Are we talking about the same thing? |
| 20:15.01 | RobotGuy | Spark Fun has jumper wire sets that are great. |
| 20:15.27 | RobotGuy | Convenient, even if a it pricy |
| 20:16.12 | RobotGuy | Durn, I need a native toolchain to install some stuff. |
| 20:16.23 | prpplague | RobotGuy: like what? |
| 20:16.40 | RobotGuy | prpplague: One of the Python modules - pysco |
| 20:16.53 | gandhijee | yoo, anyone know any manufactures of HSS cards? |
| 20:16.57 | prpplague | thats seems totally odd to me |
| 20:17.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Apparently it has a C/C++ add-on |
| 20:17.52 | prpplague | RobotGuy: how are you trying to install ti |
| 20:18.10 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Just using the included setup.py script |
| 20:18.14 | RobotGuy | No options |
| 20:24.34 | bsdfox_ | RobotGuy: yeah spark fun does have them |
| 20:24.48 | bsdfox_ | I guess they're just more expensive than I'd expected |
| 20:28.35 | bsdfox_ | now I've found some 40-pin female headers but I they're all one piece (no easy to clip to size) so every time I cut it I lose one pin and have to file down the edges.. big pita. I've purchased parts before that came with the snap apart female headers but I can't find them online |
| 20:32.59 | *** part/#edev LyosNoreze1 (n=Ralph@75-93-179-25.day.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 20:37.23 | RobotGuy | does the happy dance |
| 20:38.39 | ce_geek | bsdfox_: Might have to dig through digikey catalog. |
| 20:38.53 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Greetings |
| 20:39.03 | ce_geek | bsdfox_: And be prepared to spend like $20 to avoid a $5 handling fee. |
| 20:39.07 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Howdy |
| 20:42.05 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: I figured out the problem with my WiFi and thumb drive |
| 20:42.08 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 20:42.33 | ce_geek | What was it? |
| 20:42.52 | SpeedEvil | stabs digikey.uk |
| 20:43.03 | ce_geek | SpeedEvil: Not a fan? |
| 20:43.20 | SpeedEvil | 100 pounds to get free shipping |
| 20:43.27 | ce_geek | SpeedEvil: Eek |
| 20:43.39 | prpplague | digiflea |
| 20:43.56 | SpeedEvil | A small order - under 50 quid IIRC - attracts about 17 quid shipping, and 15 small order fee IIRC |
| 20:44.04 | ce_geek | SpeedEvil: I always have to pay shipping, but I try to avoid handling too. |
| 20:44.19 | ce_geek | Yikes |
| 20:44.24 | SpeedEvil | Yeah :/ |
| 20:44.38 | ce_geek | Sometimes they're useful to find manufacturer part numbers so you can go order them somewhere else. |
| 20:44.40 | ce_geek | Like Mouser |
| 20:44.43 | SpeedEvil | You'd think they could throw them all in a container, and handle them at the end. |
| 20:44.47 | ce_geek | Dunno if they're any better for you. |
| 20:44.54 | SpeedEvil | mouser isn't _quite_ as bad - but not great. |
| 20:45.26 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I have ordered from Mouser. |
| 20:45.47 | SpeedEvil | I mean for the UK. |
| 20:47.16 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Do I need any specific kind of transistor for the TX level shift? |
| 20:51.04 | prpplague | yea |
| 20:51.17 | prpplague | RobotGuy: pull up the datasheet for a 2n7002 or 2n7000 |
| 20:51.25 | prpplague | RobotGuy: then you can cross reference it |
| 20:51.34 | RobotGuy | prpplague: OK, great, will do that. |
| 20:51.47 | prpplague | iirc the7002 is sot23 and the 7000 is thru hole |
| 20:52.27 | RobotGuy | I need the 7000 then. |
| 20:54.31 | RobotGuy | Dang, two things that need a native toolchain now. |
| 21:00.51 | prpplague | RobotGuy: hehe, you know i've been doing this kind of work for about 15 years, and i don't recal ever needing a native toolchain |
| 21:01.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I go where no others have needed to go. :D |
| 21:04.12 | RobotGuy | prpplague: You've probably not run into anyone wanting to control a robot using Python. :) |
| 21:04.54 | prpplague | no, i've know plenty of people using python and perl on embedded systems |
| 21:05.25 | RobotGuy | prpplague: They were not me though.. Hee hee D:D |
| 21:06.33 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I am going to have one of the most unique robots you'll ever see if I pull off everything I have planned for W.A.L.T.E.R. :D |
| 21:17.52 | RobotGuy | Dang, I still don't know how I am going to resolve software being in two different places on Hammer. It's a real pita. |
| 21:19.46 | RobotGuy | I need 128 MB Flash to load everything I need, or mount a Thumb Drive as root, which I am not sure would be advisable. |
| 21:29.43 | SpeedEvil | path |
| 21:30.13 | SpeedEvil | mount the flash drive under /media/usb or wherever. |
| 21:30.30 | SpeedEvil | Link /usr/local/bin/ to a /bin on the flash drive |
| 21:34.51 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: It would not be that easy, I'm affraid. |
| 21:35.38 | RobotGuy | It would be too much of a pain to have things separated. |
| 21:36.17 | SpeedEvil | finds it really really easy on his phone. |
| 21:37.07 | RobotGuy | I just don't see how to make it work. |
| 21:37.41 | SpeedEvil | The shell simply tries every subdirectory mentioned in the PATH in turn |
| 21:37.51 | RobotGuy | I know how path works. :) |
| 21:37.52 | SpeedEvil | When it's asked to execute a file |
| 21:38.39 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I'm not seeing your problem. |
| 21:38.49 | RobotGuy | Buildroot dependencies complicate things. I just can't build two different software images and keep them separated. |
| 21:39.06 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 21:39.36 | SpeedEvil | build to a tarfile, and do the final package yourself? |
| 21:40.00 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I'd have to do that every single time I rebuild software. |
| 21:40.10 | SpeedEvil | I don't mean by hand. |
| 21:41.03 | SpeedEvil | I was assuming there was some way to say 'install this software in /flash - even if there isn't a nice way to make two seperate images. |
| 21:41.34 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Two different fs formats. |
| 21:42.09 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 21:42.21 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: No way to tell Buildroot to ingnore dependencies and just build stuff. |
| 21:42.33 | SpeedEvil | I'm assuming there is a way to get buildroot to spit out a tarfile instead of a cooked filesystem |
| 21:43.12 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: Not sure what you mean |
| 21:43.27 | SpeedEvil | yhou then just extract that, and build your usb filesystem from /flash, nuke that, then build the main filesystem from the remenants. |
| 21:44.37 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: It might be workable IF I could build one master image, and one image just for flash, then remove everything from the master that is already in the flash image. |
| 21:45.21 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: What was the problem with your wifi and thumb drive? |
| 21:45.46 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: My USB Hub. It is not quite right apparently, |
| 21:45.56 | ce_geek | RobotGuy: Gah. |
| 21:46.09 | RobotGuy | ce_geek: Yeah, I think I said much worse when I figured it out. |
| 21:47.25 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: I think I have an idea! |
| 21:49.20 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: When tarring up the flash image (in my custom build script), send the output to a file. This gives me a list of all the files in the tar. I then build my big master image and use the output from the tar of the flash image to delete dupes. |
| 21:50.25 | SpeedEvil | you're thinking too hard. |
| 21:50.31 | SpeedEvil | Simply extract the tar |
| 21:50.43 | SpeedEvil | now change into the tar root directory |
| 21:51.04 | SpeedEvil | package up the /flash directory onto your USB stick - and then delete it |
| 21:51.14 | SpeedEvil | now package up the rest as a jffs |
| 21:52.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: has sienna been around? |
| 21:52.44 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I have exchanged e-mail with her and she has been on other forums. |
| 21:52.55 | prpplague | RobotGuy: ahh ok |
| 21:56.38 | RobotGuy | prpplague: I just got an e-mail from her, so she's around. |
| 21:58.23 | RobotGuy | SpeedEvil: There is no /flash directory though. Each software image I build has the same structure. |
| 22:00.10 | prpplague | RobotGuy: its just that the picture she posted on the wiki for the jtag on the hammer had the cable on backwards |
| 22:00.48 | RobotGuy | prpplague: Ah, OK. Send her an e-mail about it. :) |
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| 22:25.49 | prpplague | heads home |
| 22:30.21 | ce_geek | prepares his thesis defense |
| 22:38.23 | ali_as | You could sprinkle anthrax on the last page and blow it in their face if they don't like it. |
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| 23:04.54 | RobotGuy | . |
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| 23:33.45 | ali_as | Hi Sienna, prp was after you about a backwards jtag. |
| 23:34.21 | RobotGuy | ali_as: I just told her. :) |
| 23:34.49 | Sienna | thats how landley told me :tug |
| 23:34.58 | Sienna | but ok, i can correct it :P |
| 23:35.09 | Sienna | its not like I had a reference to begin with :D |
| 23:35.56 | RobotGuy | I knew you could fix it. |
| 23:49.36 | Sienna | *tug* Hmph... what wrong picture! |
| 23:49.53 | Sienna | (sidenotetoself... next time get out the tripod so you can increase the aperature...) |