| 00:47.20 | *** join/#edev m_szyslak (i=dv01msm@peppar.cs.umu.se) |
| 02:03.51 | Genesis | bonne nuit tlm |
| 02:24.01 | *** join/#edev fishhead (i=gerber@unaffiliated/fishhead) |
| 02:25.50 | fishhead | http://www.thegreenhouse.us <--- jumpers, switch settings, indentifying etc for older legacy motherboards, isa cards etc, just click on the hardware 99 link |
| 03:39.35 | fishhead | http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1120)-SanDisk_Cruzer_Freedom_USB_Flash_Drive.aspx <--- does this look like a sex toy or what? |
| 03:44.13 | fishhead | staples netgear 4 port 10/100/1000 switch $25 after rebate |
| 06:38.21 | *** part/#edev joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-69-152-217-198.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 14:01.27 | *** join/#edev Genesis (n=genesis@dev.aimao.org) |
| 14:02.48 | Genesis | bonjour |
| 14:04.08 | *** join/#edev GPSFan (n=Ken@65.121.49.208) |
| 14:23.56 | *** join/#edev ShortWave (n=shortwav@67.151.73.146) |
| 14:23.56 | *** mode/#edev [+o ShortWave] by ChanServ |
| 14:40.59 | jbevren | sparkfun has gone arm7-crazy |
| 14:50.15 | jbevren | check the ADuC category in development boards |
| 14:50.36 | jbevren | its only the 7020, but its a nice looking set of options |
| 14:51.29 | jbevren | I kinda like their miniterminal |
| 14:51.51 | jbevren | 62k of flash.. must have a 2k serial loader |
| 14:51.52 | jbevren | :) |
| 14:52.36 | jbevren | (and the relay board) |
| 14:53.32 | prpplague | interesting |
| 14:54.16 | jbevren | they sell the IC individually too, of course |
| 14:57.55 | jbevren | the relay board would make a fun light sequencing project ;-) |
| 14:58.12 | jbevren | the uC apparently runs 1-45mhz |
| 14:59.51 | prpplague | jbevren: yea, as the vr-3 was just 4.77mhz |
| 15:01.27 | *** mode/#edev [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 15:06.56 | jbevren | vref is grounded on the 40pin carrier? |
| 15:07.32 | jbevren | oh.. misread the label positions |
| 15:08.41 | jbevren | next thing you know, they'll be selling em with a basic interpreter in flash :) |
| 15:12.05 | prpplague | hehe |
| 15:12.41 | prpplague | jbevren: i can't give you any details, but lets just say you are far from the truth about some new items available in jan |
| 15:19.16 | jbevren | from sparkfun, or for arm cpu's in general |
| 15:19.31 | prpplague | jbevren: www.ldevices.com |
| 15:19.49 | jbevren | 'soon' lol :) |
| 15:20.11 | jbevren | the Phantom gaming console was available 'soon' for a number of years :) |
| 15:20.20 | prpplague | jbevren: scheduled to open up jan 16 |
| 15:20.33 | jbevren | ahh.. remind me then |
| 15:20.35 | jbevren | I'll dig about :) |
| 15:20.36 | prpplague | jbevren: yea well i designed some of the devices |
| 15:20.50 | jbevren | prpplague: unlike phantom, who stuck a PC in a fancy box :) |
| 15:29.33 | jbevren | A friend and I were going to soft-emulate a 6502 cpu in a ubicom sx to replace the custom 6510 cpu in the c64 :) |
| 15:29.59 | prpplague | jbevren: hehe |
| 15:30.02 | jbevren | but as it turns out, 75 mips is just shy of what we need for 1mhz |
| 15:30.17 | jbevren | we could do it, but our goal of cycle-exactness wouldnt work out |
| 15:32.11 | jbevren | I'd also considered doing it via ISA with one of my SBCs |
| 15:32.18 | jbevren | (the dma framebuffer hack) |
| 15:32.52 | jbevren | since there's just 64k of ram in the thing, I'd map it to the expansion rom space :) |
| 15:36.03 | jbevren | meso 999 is the sparctop I want :) |
| 16:26.58 | prpplague | ~seen sorphin |
| 16:27.01 | purl | sorphin <n=dans@70.249.196.81> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 27d 56m 13s ago, saying: 'prpplague: he wandered off to mess w/ the farm critters'. |
| 16:27.30 | prpplague | GPSFan: hey hey, what are you up to on the zipit? |
| 17:43.20 | *** join/#edev ShortWave (n=shortwav@67.151.73.146) |
| 17:43.20 | *** mode/#edev [+o ShortWave] by ChanServ |
| 18:20.34 | fishhead | http://www.thegreenhouse.us <--- jumpers, switch settings, indentifying etc for older legacy motherboards, isa cards etc, just click on the hardware 99 link |
| 18:20.40 | fishhead | prpplague, or someone else |
| 18:20.54 | fishhead | paste this to the channel since a bunch of morons have me on ignore but I want them to see this anyways |
| 18:21.49 | prpplague | that would kinda defeat the purpose of having you on ignore |
| 18:21.57 | fishhead | uhh |
| 18:22.07 | fishhead | the link has NOTHING to do with why I am on ignore |
| 18:22.19 | fishhead | absolutely 100% NOT fishhead related |
| 18:22.23 | fishhead | just don't mention it's from me |
| 18:22.27 | jbevren | if you werent constantly irritating, you wouldnt be occasionally useless. |
| 18:22.33 | fishhead | I don't care this link is too valiable not to be seen |
| 18:22.48 | prpplague | whats valuable? |
| 18:22.54 | fishhead | well look at it :P |
| 18:22.58 | prpplague | i did |
| 18:23.27 | fishhead | i gotta run grandma to store bbl |
| 18:24.11 | jbevren | besides |
| 18:24.14 | jbevren | its a freaking PC |
| 18:24.16 | jbevren | throw it out |
| 18:24.19 | jbevren | theyre commodities |
| 18:24.37 | fishhead | whatever |
| 18:24.40 | jbevren | oh |
| 18:25.11 | fishhead | I know plenty of hardware hackers that perfer the older stuff for ruggedness and easy to interfacing |
| 18:25.25 | fishhead | I am not talking about fixing up a old pc just to run windows |
| 18:25.29 | fishhead | sheesh |
| 18:25.45 | fishhead | glad to know people think I am this stupid |
| 18:26.12 | fishhead | dude |
| 18:26.24 | fishhead | it has switch and jumper and identificaltion for legacy pc hardware |
| 18:26.24 | jbevren | we dont think youre stupid |
| 18:26.28 | jbevren | most of us -believe- you are. |
| 18:26.31 | jbevren | thinking is passive |
| 18:26.34 | jbevren | believing is active |
| 18:26.38 | fishhead | heh |
| 18:26.41 | jbevren | I suspect you have a clue or two |
| 18:26.44 | ShortWave | I have to say that I don't believe fishhead is stupid. |
| 18:26.48 | jbevren | heh |
| 18:27.04 | ShortWave | I think he just overreacts too much, and seeks validation for the same. |
| 18:27.06 | jbevren | heh |
| 18:27.17 | fishhead | well I defintely overeact |
| 18:27.20 | fishhead | no argument |
| 18:27.29 | prpplague | fishhead: and so how is that different than getting it from the manufacturer? |
| 18:27.40 | fishhead | prpp most of this stuff you can't find anymore |
| 18:27.50 | fishhead | espically if you can't identify it |
| 18:27.52 | jbevren | nod. docs on old isa/pci cards etc |
| 18:28.09 | fishhead | newer stuff like pci etc yeah I would go right to the source |
| 18:30.11 | fishhead | but some of the reall old stuff is still very valiable in terms of function espically since bipolar logic could just about survive a nuke holicost :P |
| 18:30.25 | ShortWave | Maybe this makes more sense: http://www.thegreenhouse.us/th99/ |
| 18:30.30 | fishhead | you can't |
| 18:30.33 | fishhead | anti linking web site |
| 18:30.35 | fishhead | already tried |
| 18:30.44 | ShortWave | I just did. |
| 18:30.52 | fishhead | WHAT THE F*** |
| 18:30.55 | fishhead | dude every time I tried that |
| 18:31.02 | fishhead | it would go "you can't use the toolbar" |
| 18:31.10 | fishhead | glad I am wrong actually |
| 18:32.12 | ShortWave | Behold as I suck it dry |
| 18:32.15 | ShortWave | http://www2.stormwind-studios.com:5150/th99/www.thegreenhouse.us/th99/ |
| 18:32.18 | ShortWave | heh |
| 18:32.31 | fishhead | can I mirror off you ? |
| 18:32.32 | ShortWave | That "all" link is harsh |
| 18:32.36 | ShortWave | God no |
| 18:32.40 | fishhead | ok |
| 18:32.47 | fishhead | i'll plucker it off them :) |
| 18:33.05 | ShortWave | I've only got 768K upstream ATM, waiting on cox to upgrade my stuff so I can get 2 MBps |
| 18:34.13 | fishhead | nice |
| 18:34.28 | fishhead | man I love flash and usb so much |
| 18:34.40 | fishhead | I just shared a flash drive over the net and shoot files <---> like nothing |
| 18:35.01 | fishhead | buying usb flash drives for most of my family and weening them off floppies :P |
| 18:36.30 | fishhead | bbl |
| 18:51.09 | jbevren | good caus efloppies suck |
| 18:51.11 | jbevren | :) |
| 19:00.33 | fishhead | I know |
| 19:00.37 | fishhead | remeber I been a tech 12+ yrs |
| 19:00.45 | fishhead | I know the ass end of the bad hardware world |
| 19:01.18 | fishhead | prpplague, and I were playing around with the idea of a flash floppy emulator |
| 19:01.26 | fishhead | 100% compatible with a floppy controller interface |
| 19:01.45 | fishhead | not for normal pc's or servers but for industral equipement that can't be easily replaced or upgraded software wise |
| 19:02.00 | fishhead | like those cnc machines you see on tv shows that still have a floppy drive |
| 19:08.09 | jbevren | why not use a flash device with an INT13 wedge |
| 19:08.20 | jbevren | one that intercepts calls to drive 0 (a:) and uses the flash |
| 19:08.26 | jbevren | most industrial software uses bios routines |
| 19:08.39 | jbevren | those that dont use an OS that would support the flash anyway |
| 19:08.49 | fishhead | oh? |
| 19:09.00 | fishhead | you mean there is already a way to intercept the floppy calls ? |
| 19:09.04 | fishhead | does that work with any os ? |
| 19:09.08 | jbevren | thats how scsi cards work |
| 19:09.14 | jbevren | to boot anyway |
| 19:09.19 | jbevren | Most industrial control systems run in DOS |
| 19:09.27 | jbevren | those that dont run a version of windows or a *nix |
| 19:09.36 | jbevren | DOS uses the bios for disk access ;-) |
| 19:09.40 | fishhead | yeah and those can support flash anyways |
| 19:09.50 | fishhead | most that could run windows or unix can be upgraded |
| 19:09.54 | fishhead | good point |
| 19:09.54 | fishhead | hmm |
| 19:09.54 | jbevren | and if your bios is recent enough, it too will support usb |
| 19:09.58 | jbevren | (for block devs) |
| 19:10.10 | fishhead | yes I know that |
| 19:10.10 | fishhead | this was for cases where that's not an option |
| 19:10.11 | jbevren | I have usb block device support on my dos-based game box btw |
| 19:10.15 | fishhead | anywhere you can it's way easier |
| 19:10.26 | jbevren | it acts like a network drive iirc |
| 19:10.27 | jbevren | heh |
| 19:10.31 | fishhead | neat |
| 19:10.37 | fishhead | yeah I am building one of those too soon |
| 19:10.38 | fishhead | dos box |
| 19:10.43 | jbevren | so you can even change drives (volumes) on the fly |
| 19:10.45 | fishhead | tseng et6000 pci 1 meg vid |
| 19:10.54 | jbevren | but only X at a time (where X is specified on the driver during boot) |
| 19:11.05 | fishhead | awe32 + 8mb ram |
| 19:11.05 | fishhead | gus pnp clone +8mb ram |
| 19:11.05 | fishhead | gus maxx |
| 19:11.11 | jbevren | Mine is a k6/475 with 64M and an SiS all in one board |
| 19:11.14 | fishhead | yeah but that's still better than flash |
| 19:11.20 | fishhead | I mean floppy |
| 19:11.29 | jbevren | 100Mbit eth using the microsoft DOS redirector, so I can access my fileserver |
| 19:11.33 | fishhead | hehehe |
| 19:11.40 | jbevren | and the packet driver lets me use dos-native web browsers |
| 19:11.41 | fishhead | we should bs together more often |
| 19:11.57 | fishhead | I gotta go run my grandma to drug store, be back another time, nice talking to you |
| 19:12.03 | jbevren | I started out on th e'net using a SLIP packet driver and ncsa telnet under dos heh |
| 19:12.06 | fishhead | btw if you need any legacy hw for dos stuff let me know |
| 19:12.11 | fishhead | i got a canuckload of it |
| 19:12.12 | jbevren | I'll remember that |
| 19:12.17 | fishhead | too much to ever use |
| 19:12.20 | jbevren | I dont tend to work with legacy stuff other than my dosbox |
| 19:12.29 | fishhead | rather see someone use it than landfill it |
| 19:12.32 | fishhead | that's what I mean't it for :P |
| 19:12.42 | fishhead | bbl |
| 19:12.44 | jbevren | the dosbox has what I need :) |
| 19:13.03 | jbevren | pci ultrawide scsi on c:, atapi cdrom, 100T ethernet, sb16 audio |
| 19:13.08 | jbevren | vesa 2.0 bios :) |
| 19:13.26 | jbevren | I can even load a: from the network to ram (syslinux/pxeboot) |
| 19:13.44 | fishhead | show off |
| 19:14.05 | jbevren | thats how I got dos on it hehe |
| 19:14.26 | jbevren | dos/packetdrvr/fdisk/format/ncsa ftp |
| 19:14.27 | jbevren | the rest was tcp/ip :) |
| 19:14.49 | jbevren | shame is, I cant use packet drivers, and the SMB redirector at the same time :( |
| 19:14.53 | fishhead | yeah me too I used to have 624kb mem loaded on a 286-12 with mouse driver and no upper memory capability btw |
| 19:14.58 | jbevren | I wish there were a packet driver for the MS tcp stack |
| 19:15.13 | fishhead | m$ mouse 9.00 only had a /u switch it could use hma of dos 5+ if you kept buffers at 20 or lower |
| 19:15.20 | jbevren | 286's only have HMA, not UMA (iirc) |
| 19:15.24 | fishhead | I know |
| 19:15.26 | fishhead | I just said that |
| 19:15.43 | fishhead | actually some 286's with the right chipset with shadown ram controller can do UMA |
| 19:15.43 | jbevren | dos just isnt made for modern systems |
| 19:15.49 | jbevren | its made for 8086's |
| 19:15.52 | fishhead | yep |
| 19:15.54 | jbevren | hehe |
| 19:16.00 | fishhead | damn i gotta remove myself here or grandma will yell |
| 19:16.13 | jbevren | I'd enjoy a nice single-task OS for modern systems |
| 19:16.17 | jbevren | or something as responsive as Amiga |
| 19:16.24 | jbevren | go go |
| 19:16.32 | jbevren | I'm at work so its not like I'm going anywhere |
| 19:27.57 | ShortWave | UMA? |
| 19:28.08 | ShortWave | Uniform Memory Architecture, ala SGI? |
| 19:28.34 | jbevren | DOS has several memory types |
| 19:28.41 | jbevren | "memory", being that less than 640k |
| 19:28.58 | jbevren | HMA, which is the memory area for rom expansion, parts of which are ram on some systems |
| 19:29.07 | jbevren | UMA, which is between the BIOS and 1M (I think?) |
| 19:29.30 | jbevren | EMS, which is a block of memory, paged in 64k at a time into the HMA |
| 19:29.44 | jbevren | XMS, which is linear mapped memory (as seen on 286/386+) for 1M+ ram |
| 19:29.46 | jbevren | hmmm |
| 19:30.03 | jbevren | and DPMI ram, which is like XMS but accessed differently |
| 19:30.09 | jbevren | or rather, permission is acquired differently |
| 19:30.25 | jbevren | in DPMI, you can go to a 32bit flat memory model and still use DOS, which only runs in real mode |
| 19:30.31 | jbevren | yeah |
| 19:30.43 | jbevren | the video subsystem in O2s can see all system ram |
| 19:30.48 | jbevren | which is handy, |
| 19:30.55 | jbevren | set the video system to texture a cylinder |
| 19:30.58 | ShortWave | It's kinda sexy that you can have 900+ MB of texture ram. |
| 19:31.01 | jbevren | point the texture to a block of ram :) |
| 19:31.06 | jbevren | point the video capture device at that ram |
| 19:31.10 | ShortWave | YUp |
| 19:31.19 | jbevren | voila, 0-cpu texturing of live video onto a cylinder |
| 19:31.38 | jbevren | I have an 02 r5k/200 and an o2 r10k/175 with video optoin |
| 19:31.47 | jbevren | the 10k/175 is much faster heh |
| 19:31.57 | jbevren | they both have 512M ram |
| 19:33.40 | jbevren | I have yet to utilize the MACE in mine tho |
| 19:33.51 | jbevren | apparently it makes video conversion very fast, but the GUI utilities dont use it |
| 19:33.54 | jbevren | grr. :) |
| 19:38.07 | fishhead | uma is area right at 641kb to 1 meg |
| 19:38.18 | fishhead | first segment a000-affff is 64kb for dos video buffer |
| 19:38.43 | fishhead | b000-bfff is 64kb 2nd dos video buffer and if you mono text you only use the 2nd 32kb half |
| 19:38.59 | fishhead | which means you can backfill 640kb with 96kb more ram to have a base of 7xxkb |
| 19:39.16 | fishhead | c000-cffff dooo-dfff are used for misc roms like video, hd |
| 19:39.26 | fishhead | f000-f000 is bios and so is e000-efff on modern systems |
| 19:39.51 | fishhead | the cpu actually goes to the end of fffff and jumps backwards so that the bios could expand more than 64kb |
| 19:40.15 | fishhead | back when I had my 286 I learned every last detail I could to optimize the system |
| 19:40.21 | fishhead | one yea I asked for dos 5.0 for xmas |
| 19:40.22 | fishhead | :P |
| 19:40.25 | fishhead | year |
| 19:40.40 | fishhead | I just finished washing the 286 motherboard yesterday for later restore project |
| 19:40.52 | fishhead | gotta head out, I just checked in to finish loading my palm |
| 19:46.12 | fishhead | that's also why when you did dual monitor setups only one card can boot dos/bios or have "dos compatibility mode" enabled |
| 19:46.20 | fishhead | 2 devices can't use the same ram segment |
| 19:46.26 | fishhead | that a000-bffff |
| 19:50.45 | jbevren | yeah they can, its called 'bank switching' :) |
| 19:51.00 | jbevren | thats how the c64 gets 72k of namespace into 64k of address space |
| 19:51.03 | jbevren | :D |
| 21:11.07 | ShortWave | werd, I haven't thought about bank switching in forever |
| 21:11.13 | ShortWave | That's old sk00l style |
| 21:11.20 | ShortWave | Delta Data terminals did that shit. |
| 21:43.34 | jbevren | hehe |
| 21:43.37 | jbevren | yeah |
| 21:43.48 | jbevren | the neatest expansion I'd seen is on the c64 |
| 21:43.53 | jbevren | I have such a unit.. |
| 21:43.59 | jbevren | it puts 512k of ram in 16 registers |
| 21:44.10 | jbevren | data is block-transferred using hardware and DMA |
| 21:44.19 | jbevren | one byte per bus cycle |
| 21:44.57 | jbevren | programs aware of the device reserve 8k of space on it to accelerate graphics scrolling, cause its faster to transfer the screen to the expansion ram and transfer back at a different location (one line up for example) than it is to do it in software |
| 21:45.14 | jbevren | its also a real good way to swap overlays in and out |
| 21:45.36 | jbevren | most other expansions use a window like EMS, and PIO data transfers |
| 23:41.16 | Genesis | bonne nuit |