| 02:42.18 | *** join/#diablofans Sixen (~Sixen@173-25-23-124.client.mchsi.com) |
| 02:42.19 | *** mode/#diablofans [+o Sixen] by ChanServ |
| 02:57.19 | *** join/#diablofans ZeroPS (bd0bdb70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.11.219.112) |
| 02:57.34 | ZeroPS | HA! I finally found your stronghold! |
| 02:58.08 | ZeroPS | Now make me a moderator so I can start kicking random users' butts, as I did in old T7DS/Scoop times! |
| 02:58.58 | *** join/#diablofans Alowsz (~AlexK@ppp121-45-185-195.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net) |
| 03:02.06 | *** join/#diablofans Wulf (~quassel@ip-81-11-178-81.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 03:11.06 | ZeroPS | =( guess nobody's here to chat now.. |
| 03:11.14 | Ariac | I'm always here to chat. |
| 03:11.27 | Ariac | Unless it's between the hours of 4/5 AM and 1-2 PM EST |
| 03:11.37 | Ariac | Feel free to HL me whenever. |
| 03:11.39 | Daemaro | >_> |
| 03:11.41 | ZeroPS | I guess you like chatting, uh? =] |
| 03:12.08 | Daemaro | Zero you realize we have a staff channel too right? XD |
| 03:12.09 | ZeroPS | I wanted to talk to one of the wiki sysops, try to learn how can I help the wiki grow. |
| 03:12.18 | ZeroPS | Isn't this the staff channel? =P |
| 03:12.20 | Daemaro | ah. |
| 03:12.28 | Daemaro | No this is the general channel... sheesh. :P |
| 03:12.33 | Ariac | lol |
| 03:12.35 | Daemaro | Yeah 34 staff members |
| 03:12.38 | ZeroPS | Hahahaha.. I just clicked your link =/ |
| 03:12.40 | Ariac | Is the staff chat open to public? |
| 03:12.46 | Daemaro | :P |
| 03:12.48 | ZeroPS | Who knows what you guys do back here =P |
| 03:13.10 | ZeroPS | Can you pm me with the staff's channel? =D |
| 03:13.30 | ZeroPS | Nevermind |
| 03:13.36 | ZeroPS | I see what I did wrong now =( |
| 03:13.37 | Ariac | :( |
| 03:14.16 | ZeroPS | Hahahahaha, I'm there now! |
| 03:14.26 | *** join/#diablofans Nekora (~Nekora@50.93.223.175) |
| 03:14.27 | ZeroPS | Now I found your TRUE fortress! |
| 03:14.53 | Daemaro | check pms on site |
| 03:14.54 | Daemaro | :p |
| 03:15.03 | Daemaro | there |
| 03:15.13 | Ariac | I'll just go back to the reddit irc then. *long sighhhhhhhhhh* |
| 03:15.22 | Ariac | =P |
| 03:16.35 | Daemaro | Lol :P |
| 03:17.59 | Kane_Hart | My mom said I was special but when I checked my battle.net account today I learned my mothers been lying to me for 26 years.. |
| 03:19.32 | ZeroPS | Hahahahaha =D |
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| 03:56.46 | Ariac | Anybody around wnat to give me some input on a wiz build? |
| 03:56.59 | Daemaro | sure |
| 03:57.05 | Ariac | http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#ZkYOQR!YWX!bYabYY |
| 03:57.07 | Ariac | Thanks. |
| 03:57.16 | Ariac | It's not mine, it's a friends. I've been helping him with it. |
| 03:57.21 | Ariac | And I would like some outside advice. |
| 03:58.07 | Daemaro | Wow hadnt noticed that rune for ray of frost yet, :P pretty nice |
| 03:58.13 | Ariac | lol |
| 03:58.31 | Ariac | I told him I personally felt like hydra could potentially be best replaced with something else. |
| 03:59.35 | Daemaro | mmm hard to say since I havent actually used it, i would say though probably between ray of frost being free and shield being runed to grand arcane power he may have too much, id say pick one or the other, like you could keep ray of frost runed and fall back on that until power regens |
| 04:00.25 | Ariac | The reason we were going with both of those is so that he'd have enough AP for a double meteor after a frost nova and still have enough to teleport out if need be. |
| 04:00.33 | Nekora | Araic: I'm not sure you want BOTH frost nova and teleport, unless perhaps you're intending this for PvP or something like that. |
| 04:00.44 | Ariac | The frost nova is for damage. |
| 04:00.47 | Ariac | Not for CC. |
| 04:00.54 | Ariac | It's so that they sit still long enough for the comet to hit them. |
| 04:00.58 | Nekora | The other Ah. |
| 04:01.05 | Nekora | I suppose that's true. |
| 04:01.19 | Ariac | It's sorta versatile for this build I feel. |
| 04:01.40 | Ariac | If you NEED it then you'll have it. |
| 04:01.40 | Daemaro | Thats pretty good i guess if thats what you're aiming for. Seems like you have a good plan for it. |
| 04:01.44 | Ariac | But if you need to damage you could use it. |
| 04:02.11 | Nekora | The other thing is that you're pretty much SoL as far as multi target damage and you have no real way to regenerate it other than your passive regen when you burn up all your AP. |
| 04:02.18 | Nekora | Which can be fine. |
| 04:02.18 | Daemaro | I'll probably start out building my characters really glass cannon and then having to pick up some defensive runes/passives |
| 04:02.29 | Ariac | That's how I normally am. |
| 04:02.44 | Ariac | The current build I'm working on for myself looks like this currently. |
| 04:02.45 | Ariac | http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UigkOY!cfY!a.Zabc |
| 04:02.52 | Ariac | Still looking for a rune to throw on disintegrate. |
| 04:03.02 | Ariac | And possibly switching meteor to blizzard or something else that does decent damage. |
| 04:03.06 | Nekora | But I'm not entirely sure you want to pick Glass Cannon AND have your build be too reliant on getting close to use Frost Nova to drive your bonus damage on Cold Blooded. |
| 04:03.10 | Ariac | Like hydra or maybe familiar for more dis damage. |
| 04:03.19 | Ariac | I felt the same way. |
| 04:03.32 | Ariac | That's why we chose energy armor. |
| 04:03.56 | Nekora | You could replace the Frost Nova with Blizzard. Be an AoE frost specialist with that. |
| 04:04.06 | Nekora | Throw down Blizzard and then blast them with the Comet. |
| 04:04.19 | ZeroPS | It amazes me how much people enjoy playing with the calculator =] a lot of really cool builds even before the game releases. |
| 04:04.24 | Ariac | The issue with blizzard is though it does cold damage, it doesn't cause a chill or frozen effect without a rune. |
| 04:04.35 | Ariac | We thought about that one originally. |
| 04:04.43 | Nekora | I hadn't realized that. I had figured it would have a minor chill effect due to being frost. Odd. |
| 04:04.45 | Ariac | IT was the first suggestion I had for him and we both eventually decided against it. =P |
| 04:05.06 | ZeroPS | Elemental damage has no side effects in D3 =( Jay Wilson recently tweeted about that. |
| 04:05.12 | Daemaro | wonder if thats an oversight |
| 04:05.17 | ZeroPS | One of my latest disappointments at the team as well.. |
| 04:05.17 | Daemaro | Blizzard not chilling |
| 04:05.22 | Nekora | It does actually, ZeroPS. Cold does. Slightly. Not for very long at all. |
| 04:05.24 | Daemaro | sort of weird to make you rune it |
| 04:05.24 | Ariac | It doesn't say it does. |
| 04:05.28 | Ariac | I haven't watched the video though. |
| 04:05.36 | Ariac | The rune gives it a 20% chance to freeze though. |
| 04:06.06 | Nekora | The reason they did it, Daemaro, is that if they had gone with that, everyone would just end up choosing lightning, for the most part, especially in PvP. |
| 04:06.12 | Nekora | It's harder to balance it that way. |
| 04:06.17 | Nekora | So they chose the balance route. |
| 04:06.30 | ZeroPS | Really? |
| 04:06.46 | ZeroPS | I haven't noticed swords with cold damage on the beta slowing down mobs.. |
| 04:06.50 | Nekora | Are you kidding? Stun is one of the most desirable things in PvP. People would make crit builds just for the extra stun. |
| 04:06.55 | Nekora | Oh. About the other thing. |
| 04:07.11 | Daemaro | I dont think PvP had much to do with it, I'm also talking about blizzard so im not sure I follow you. |
| 04:07.32 | Nekora | I was talking to ZeroPS about why they had not given elemental damage side-effects, Daemaro. |
| 04:07.34 | Nekora | Not to you in particular. |
| 04:07.41 | Daemaro | Ah yeah. |
| 04:07.55 | Daemaro | silence for arcane, slow for frost, lightning stunning |
| 04:07.55 | Daemaro | etc |
| 04:07.58 | ZeroPS | True.. there's a small snare effect =] |
| 04:08.00 | Daemaro | is what it WAS |
| 04:08.03 | ZeroPS | Just tested it. |
| 04:08.22 | Nekora | Yeah. Cold is the only one that has a side-effect, but in return, cold is the lowest damage output of them. |
| 04:08.31 | Nekora | Fire, Lightning, Arcane are all higher damage output. |
| 04:08.39 | ZeroPS | Poison doing a DoT was the 2nd most obvious =/ seriously, why did they remove that? |
| 04:09.08 | Nekora | Probably, they didn't want to over-emphasize crit, and it messed with game balance. |
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| 04:11.58 | ZeroPS | It's funny how dedicated we can be, and still miss small things like that. |
| 04:12.16 | ZeroPS | I follow most blue posts, twitter feeds, news from dfans, check the forums.. |
| 04:12.21 | Nekora | Like what? |
| 04:12.24 | Ariac | Ok. |
| 04:12.26 | Ariac | http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/active/blizzard |
| 04:12.30 | ZeroPS | And my info was still off regarding cold not having a side-effect. |
| 04:12.45 | Ariac | I can see that they become slightly blue. |
| 04:12.51 | Ariac | But I can't tell if it actually slows them down. |
| 04:13.15 | Daemaro | blue generally means they're chilled I think though? |
| 04:13.18 | Daemaro | looks like it might |
| 04:13.34 | Ariac | The fact that it doesn't say it but other skills like ray of frost do is my logic for blizzard not. |
| 04:13.58 | Nekora | Well if cold has an 'inherent' slow, it's a very minor, short one. |
| 04:14.10 | Nekora | So the ones that do more are just replacing the default slow. |
| 04:14.16 | Ariac | I wish it were mentioned in the game guide. |
| 04:17.41 | ZeroPS | Are you guys rushing through the game (100% dodging everything), slightly rushing (not exploring everything) or exploring it all? |
| 04:17.51 | ZeroPS | I'm torn right now, can't decide on what to do =( |
| 04:17.55 | Ariac | Slightly rushing. |
| 04:18.17 | Ariac | I don't think 100% dodging everything would be an optimal solution. The time you spend dodging will make it take forever to kill bosses and you'll be underleveled for hell. |
| 04:18.39 | Daemaro | Im going to rush the first play to the end of normal because i dont want it ruined for me with uber spoilers |
| 04:19.46 | Daemaro | sleet is a cool rune for ray of frost but it confuses me |
| 04:19.58 | Daemaro | if im letting something get that close why wouldnt I just be a melee wizard |
| 04:20.08 | ZeroPS | Yeah I feel like that too Dae.. |
| 04:20.38 | ZeroPS | I'm a completionist but I also feel like I need to make the most out of the first 72 hours.. |
| 04:20.47 | ZeroPS | At least finish Normal and get Nightmare started. |
| 04:21.35 | ZeroPS | And gold/item-wise, getting levels ahead would make my life much easier when I wanted to play another character from the start.. |
| 04:22.01 | Daemaro | I still dunno what character I wanna actually play with. |
| 04:22.06 | ZeroPS | Dodging everything 100% I feel it's impossible.. people thinking they'll rush through content will get stuck on bosses for quite some time and others will catch up. |
| 04:22.10 | Daemaro | I wont know really until I max each out though. |
| 04:22.45 | ZeroPS | Because dying over and over again while "almost killing it" after 10 minutes of kiting = 0 loot and 0 progression. |
| 04:23.06 | ZeroPS | Same here, all the classes look equally appealing to me later in the game. |
| 04:23.52 | ZeroPS | And you can have Sleet as a ranged glass cannon. |
| 04:24.00 | ZeroPS | Sleet for when you can't possibly hold them back |
| 04:24.11 | ZeroPS | Teleporter melees for instance. |
| 04:24.12 | Daemaro | when you cant hold them back, teleport |
| 04:24.45 | ZeroPS | Wouldnt things like teleporting scavengers catch you, though? |
| 04:24.59 | Nekora | I'm going to be exploring everything, myself. |
| 04:25.14 | Daemaro | probably zero thats why you have snares though :P |
| 04:25.15 | ZeroPS | And I'm thinking the Jailer affix could maybe prevent teleporting |
| 04:25.24 | Nekora | It doesn't, IIRC, ZeroPS. |
| 04:25.28 | Nekora | Movement skills work. |
| 04:25.33 | Nekora | But the circle goes WITH you. |
| 04:25.37 | ZeroPS | Never found one |
| 04:26.00 | ZeroPS | I guess that's why Jay Wilson always talks about "experimenting" |
| 04:26.21 | ZeroPS | You'll probably have to try putting sleet on your build, if it works well for a given situation or enemy, you might wanna keep it. |
| 04:26.46 | ZeroPS | To me, it's all going to be about the "feel" of the skill. |
| 04:27.11 | Nekora | I think Sleet is an awesome skill for many builds. ESPECIALLY melee wizards. |
| 04:27.33 | ZeroPS | But is it worthy of a skill slot for ranged wizards? |
| 04:27.53 | Nekora | Probably not, unless you need something to punish groups of enemies who come close. |
| 04:28.05 | Nekora | And even then there might be better ways to do it. |
| 04:28.06 | ZeroPS | Maybe the AP efficiency combined with the CC could make it better than something like Arcane Orb up close. |
| 04:28.23 | ZeroPS | But I wouldn't know.. I haven't theoryzed much with the current data. |
| 04:28.34 | ZeroPS | I tend to avoid it, since I know so much can change =( |
| 04:31.13 | Nekora | I don't even know what class I'm going to do as my first, or even whether I'm going to run Hardcore or regular first. |
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| 04:32.36 | ZeroPS | Hardcore first is for masochists =( |
| 04:33.01 | ZeroPS | Or people who want their first run to take 2 weeks to a month. |
| 04:33.31 | Nekora | Haha. I play roguelikes, sooo... |
| 04:33.46 | ZeroPS | I've seen in the forums so many people expect to run hardcore and rush stuff... don't they think an Act 3 or Act 4 boss will surprise you and insta-gib ppl? |
| 04:34.13 | Nekora | I'm sure it will. I'm also sure that people will be taken aback by the difficulty of Inferno. D2 was not a particularly difficult game. |
| 04:34.24 | ZeroPS | Don't get me wrong, I liked rogue-like games too.. but D3 has so much to do, 5 classes to explore.. dying and having to do stuff all over again =( |
| 04:34.42 | ZeroPS | D2 was difficult if you didn't know what you were doing.. |
| 04:34.59 | ZeroPS | .. which was the first couple weeks (or even months) when the game released. |
| 04:35.03 | Daemaro | d2 was diffcult if you found the right combination of monster affixes* |
| 04:35.04 | Daemaro | :P |
| 04:35.10 | Daemaro | but then you just save and exit |
| 04:35.16 | ZeroPS | Yeah.. |
| 04:35.20 | Nekora | Yeah. It's a very different paradigm. |
| 04:35.21 | ZeroPS | My first D2 character was a fire sorc |
| 04:35.40 | ZeroPS | My point was people died a lot in that game in the beginning.. |
| 04:35.50 | ZeroPS | Who the hell did not die to Duriel??? |
| 04:36.05 | ZeroPS | Stupid son of a bitch overpowered cheating bastard..!!!! |
| 04:36.34 | Daemaro | it was pretty tough, always is on a fresh character |
| 04:36.44 | Daemaro | small room and he slows you and hits extra fast |
| 04:36.49 | ZeroPS | Granted, I have a friend who didn't.. but only because I brought him into the game and taught him everything.. we geared correctly and we had a static field sorc and a tanky paladin.. |
| 04:37.10 | Nekora | Yeah. Duriel is pretty much the one 'hard' part of the game, and he feels really cheesy to me. That's why I'm excited about D3. It seems tome like they'll be able tohave difficult bosses and encounters without resorting to cheesy stuff like Duriel. |
| 04:37.15 | ZeroPS | I can imagine the frustration for the first couple hundred guys who got there. |
| 04:37.37 | ZeroPS | Which is why I don't get all the e-peening happening right now |
| 04:37.53 | ZeroPS | People thinking they'll be able to crap on Inferno as if it was their ordinary Call of Duty game -.- |
| 04:38.08 | Daemaro | Im betting we'll have to scramble for health globes quite a bit. |
| 04:38.19 | Nekora | I hate to generalize, but people who tend to be competitive at games are like that. |
| 04:38.31 | ZeroPS | That's true. |
| 04:38.50 | ZeroPS | I don't mind people being competitive, or even thinking highly of themselves |
| 04:39.15 | ZeroPS | What bothers me is people pretending like they're the best freaking players on the world, because they could beat Dark Souls and everybody says that's hardcoooore.. |
| 04:39.41 | ZeroPS | There's always someone better than you, that's one big thing I've learned.. |
| 04:40.01 | Daemaro | well everyone is going to be bad in the beginning, going in expecting not to die is sort of arrogant |
| 04:40.07 | Daemaro | you never know what a boss might do |
| 04:40.36 | ZeroPS | That's my point. |
| 04:40.49 | ZeroPS | You wanna do that 2 weeks after release, fine by me. But before it? wtf! |
| 04:41.09 | Nekora | Dark Souls was, in fact, harder than most mainstream games are nowadays. I dont' think it really compares to Monster Hunter though. |
| 04:41.17 | ZeroPS | And I've seen so much of that in the forums. |
| 04:41.27 | ZeroPS | Plus, the whole "action" vs "rpg" debate. |
| 04:41.49 | ZeroPS | Rpg players want massive customization, they want puzzle like stats and systems, they want absurd permanence on their characters.. |
| 04:41.57 | Nekora | The Diablofans forums, or the official ones? |
| 04:42.06 | ZeroPS | On pretty much everywhere |
| 04:42.16 | Nekora | Not all RPG players want that. In fact, the people who claim that RPGs mean 'customization' are honestly full of shit. |
| 04:42.24 | ZeroPS | Action players want quickly swapabble skills anywhere, they want to be able to rush through everything and experience everything.. |
| 04:42.45 | ZeroPS | The whole autostats discussion was proof of that.. |
| 04:43.41 | Nekora | That's mostly resolved, though. With only a few holdouts pouting and lashing out about it every so often. |
| 04:43.47 | ZeroPS | People who want to customize stats are usually the ones who enjoy custom building every piece of their character and they enjoy the "math" part of a game.. for them, searching/googling for a perfect build is moot because they wanna craft that perfect build.. |
| 04:44.06 | ZeroPS | It came back with the runes discussion recently though =P |
| 04:44.19 | ZeroPS | Part of the community wanted rune levels, part of it didn't |
| 04:44.57 | Nekora | The rune levels were ridiculous though. I was part of that debate, and there was literally no good balance solution for that, which is part of the reason Blizzard wanted to axe them. |
| 04:44.58 | ZeroPS | And that's perfectly fine, having a preference.. but when people start hating the other side, flaming and saying the other side is full of ignorants |
| 04:45.05 | ZeroPS | my head asplodes o.O |
| 04:45.13 | Nekora | Heh. |
| 04:45.22 | Nekora | Yeah. I don't like the flaming on the forums myself. |
| 04:45.24 | ZeroPS | But it's just fine having a preference. |
| 04:45.40 | ZeroPS | Just like the whole WoW vs Guild Wars 2, or comparing WoW to Diablo. |
| 04:46.00 | ZeroPS | It's just fine, people have preferences. There's no need to hate or want to kill each other =D |
| 04:46.06 | ZeroPS | That's what lead to wars ;-) |
| 04:46.18 | Nekora | It is, actually. But these people state their opinions like they're fact, and when one tries to have a real debate about it, they just yell. That's a problem. |
| 04:46.23 | ZeroPS | nvrmind.. money/power/wealth lead to wars.. |
| 04:46.41 | ZeroPS | For instance, I just don't like the current Blizzard looks.. |
| 04:46.56 | ZeroPS | That doesn't mean I hate someone who does. |
| 04:47.18 | Nekora | You mean the way the skill looks? Or the company's graphic style? |
| 04:49.01 | ZeroPS | Nah, the way the skill looks |
| 04:49.22 | Nekora | Yeah. Hopefully the rune effects look better. But I didn't like the way it looked in D2 either. |
| 04:49.30 | Nekora | It looked like falling cotton balls to me in D2. |
| 04:49.36 | ZeroPS | I don't mind anything "cartoony" in the game, but that's way out of proportion. |
| 04:49.42 | ZeroPS | Hahahaha so true.. |
| 04:50.16 | ZeroPS | I wanted Blizzard to make us feels like sharp shards of ice are actually riping appart our enemies.. |
| 04:50.34 | ZeroPS | It feels like I'm throwing blue ice cream balls at them |
| 04:51.11 | Nekora | Better than dumping a crate of cotton balls on their head. |
| 04:52.10 | ZeroPS | Meteor on the other hand feels awesome.. |
| 04:52.18 | ZeroPS | I don't know why some ppl don't like it. |
| 04:53.09 | Nekora | People will whine about anything right now because it's cool too. Makes them feel like a hardcore D2 players, who are oh-so-smart because they like manually-assigned stats and skill points and such (Which actually in fact make the game require less thought). |
| 04:53.51 | ZeroPS | You know what was really hard in D2.. Nihlathak and his stupid corpse explosion.. |
| 04:54.16 | ZeroPS | I mean, action-wise... because rpg/build wise I never had to figure out anything for myself.. |
| 04:54.28 | ZeroPS | But killing that son of a gun, man that felt good.. |
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| 04:59.17 | ZeroPS | Imma get some sleep now |
| 04:59.22 | ZeroPS | See ya. |
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